 There are very few truly brilliant people whose hearts are just as big as their brains. Phil Nottingham is one of those people. You can count on just about any of Phil's friends and total strangers to have an inspiring story about how Phil has generously helped them in big and meaningful ways. He does this quietly and without any expected return, but these stories are truly echoed all around the world. I have heard Phil stories that, you know, he's helped people in Bali, all over the UK and over in Prague. So talk about building a global brand without a global budget. Phil has done that 10 times over. So please join me in welcoming the one, the only video and brand marketing strategist, Phil Nottingham. At every conference I go to, the story is always the same. The funnel is broken. This idea that we can market to people, to consumers or businesses by trying to drive them through a linear journey which ends up in purchase just doesn't really work anymore. Because things like GDPR means that all tracking is double-opted in and we can't necessarily keep hold of all people and measure exactly what their interactions are. With dark social, a lot of conversations are happening on places like WhatsApp and Messenger where we can't see the conversations that consumers are having with one another. And the dominance of Facebook and Google controlling ever more of the digital ecosystem means that, you know, unless we're paying money to Google and Facebook, we often can't reach our particular customers to communicate with them themselves. So this idea of the funnel is increasingly causing us a lot of problems. And the answer to this is often cited that we need to market for preference rather than conversion. So in a world where we can't think about driving people through a conversion funnel, we need to start to build up that reputation that makes consumers want to go to us directly. In other words, we need to build a brand. And every conference is now, you know what? The way to really future-proof your marketing, the way to really stand out for the long term is to build a brand. But I've always sat there, I'm sure, many of you have, and thought, okay, how? How do I, as somebody working for maybe a small or a medium business, without the resources of the Nike's and the Adidas and the people who can do these huge, great, big Super Bowl ad-type campaigns, how can I actually build a brand in a similar way? And it's a hard question, but I'm here today because I think I've worked it out and I want to share the answer with you. For the last few years, I've been working with a company called Wistia and we're a video hosting company in the software B2B space. And I've also worked with a bunch of other companies to help them work out how to use their marketing to better build a brand. And I'm going to show you somewhere I find things. So first of all, what have we been doing wrong? And I think the way in which we currently try to build a brand is causing the problems. So what we currently do is as follows. We'll start by trying to make sure that we create a great customer experience. So we'll invest in amazing support, sales, make a beautiful, easy to use website and hope that this helps us stand out. And this is great. But the problem is that a good website is now a commodity that everybody can have and good sales and good support teams are sort of table stakes for just competing these days rather than a way of really making yourself stand out. So you really can't differentiate with customer experience. OK, well, when we've done that, most of us then say we've built this really great website. We've done all our kind of core technical SEO. We've really got to the stage where we can now start to build our reputation, our brand. So then we start to go towards things like blogging. We'll start to write loads and loads of posts. We'll start to create more and more content, hiring writers and doing all that kind of stuff. And again, this can work and it can be really helpful, but it's increasingly less effective with 600 million blogs out there. It's very, very hard to stand out. And also, walls of text don't necessarily help you convey personality, particularly well. One of the key ingredients of brand is, of course, personality. It may help you as a writer stand out as an individual to explain your thinking, but it doesn't necessarily help you as a brand craft or identity. So next we think about maybe we need to start doing PR. That's the way we're going to really help build a brand and stand out through that. So we will probably engage an agency and we'll do big campaigns and we'll try and come up with a social change or we'll try and tag ourselves onto an existing happening in the world and try and make our story front and center through the conversations consumers are having. But again, the problem with this is that it can work, but it's extremely high risk and very unreliable. The majority of PR campaigns do not lead to an amazing way of building a brand. That happens very, very rarely. So to treat this as a strategy, to your strategy being we are going to be the 0.01% that do it is not necessarily very reliable or effective. So then what we tend to do once we've maybe done a bit of PR is then think, well, let's try and build up our reputation on social media. Social media is obviously where a lot of conversations are happening. It's where brands can be built. It's where we can start to converse with people. So we will create short, snackable videos usually, do some images, do fun things that help us be part of the conversation on social media. And this, again, can work slightly but has some problems because social media doesn't necessarily help you build a brand and just because something does very well on social media doesn't necessarily mean that it's helping you drive that essential preference and consumer and relation with your particular brand. If we think about the way social media is measured, often it's with these three categories. We have things like applause, which basically means a number of people clicking like or favoriting a tweet. We have conversation, the number of people commenting or replying to a post and then amplification, the number of people sharing it themselves. And we'll often measure this in aggregated metrics that are then used relatively. So we'll try and measure over time our like rates and our comments and our shares as amplification rate, applause rate, conversation rate. And we'll download these kind of reports often from social media measurement tools and we'll then try and track this over time to see if we're doing it better. But of course, the problem is that we'll end up working with a media agency and getting a report that says something quite impressive, like, you know, we did this campaign and we saw a 35% increase in brand amplification. Sounds great. The problem is what this actually often means in reality is that this campaign just had a few more shares than it did last year. And so these relative measurements trying to be constantly relevant on social media is not necessarily helping us and it's not necessarily a good benchmark in any meaningful sense of our brand. Additionally, actually going viral on social media doesn't necessarily help people on the brand at all. This was a video that we launched a wisteria a couple of years ago and this particular video did really, really well. It got 100,000 shares and lots and lots of people were liking it and it was a sort of video about this Snapchat hot dog filter so it was kind of relevant and speaking to the community and the audience about the things that they cared about. Did it do anything for our traffic or our brand search or our otherwise reputation? No. The performance was only visible on Facebook and Twitter where it did well and everywhere else it just didn't seem to translate into any meaningful value. And this is the sad truth. Social media marketing can be valuable but it's not necessarily a great or primary avenue for brand-building. And going viral does not necessarily help build a brand. So once we've done some social media so we've got all these covered what we'll then try and do is of course invest in the big kahuna in some advertising and we'll try and invest in great creatives that pushes out our message to tell key stories. But again, there's major problems with treating digital advertising as the main way in which you're going to build a brand. If we think about the way in which things work this is what a view of a video looks like on YouTube. Here it comes and it's gone. And we are spending a fortune buying loads and loads of these and hoping that this will help stand out. We're hoping that maybe again we are that 0.01% that create an ad and people actually stop and watch that they actually stop and we engage with. But the basing strategy on being the 0.01% is not very odd. On Facebook again, we get the same. Here's a view on Facebook, here comes the ad and it's gone. Facebook's primarily mobile. People are just watching on the phones they're scrolling through the average views not more than a few seconds long. So we're trying to build a brand basically through lots of these through lots of just 200 response codes just a browser loaded a video and it played it and that was that. And of course this is not necessarily that good or effective. If we think about what a brand is a brand is the way a company organization or individual is perceived by those who experience it. And if you are just perceiving a few seconds of something over and over again if you are just perceiving a brief interaction over and over again these quick touch points and lots and lots of subliminal messaging it's not really gonna work. This idea that we can build a brand through the impressions on an ad is a very outdated one. It comes from the 60s when this was possibly likely that just because people were not seeing ads all the time the fact that you were standing out on Madison Avenue with your billboards meant that a few more people might be able to relate to your business more than others. But in a world where we're just bombarded with ads all the time simply having digital advertising does not make you stand out helping make you build a brand. No one has proved this, there's no evidence. It's just anecdotes and occasional instances where we are relying on an old and outdated model of doing things because we don't feel like we have any alternatives. And the problem is that the number of impressions is not the number of people impressed. We seem to be stuck in this Romeo and Juliet narrative where we imagine that the consumer's there on the balcony saying, oh brand, oh brand, wherefore art thou brand? And we're just stuck there as brands just say, yes, pick me, pick me, pick me. We're trying to build love at first sight all the time of advertising. Of course, this just doesn't work. So digital advertising itself can be a very useful marketing tactic which we'll get onto. But it doesn't necessarily help make people like you. It doesn't necessarily help in and of itself with building a brand. It can do. There's many counter examples but they are the few, not many. The many, it's just waste to spend. And if you can see this if you go in to have a look at your particular analytics on Facebook or YouTube, you'll see that if you really drill down into the data, Facebook is kind of lying to you. Your headline metrics will be something like this. You'll see that the performance of a post that you did, a promoted post, huge numbers of minutes viewed, lots and lots of views, all this good stuff. And then when you actually drill into it, you'll see that the vast majority of those views are just dropping off in seconds. It's just super super quick and it's gone. Yeah, because people are scoring three they're not watching the whole thing. But Facebook have kind of set their limits such that a three second view is really not very much. And a 10 second view is actually anything that's sort of between the three and the 10 and we're just gonna slightly hedge it. So it looks more valuable than it is. If you strip out all of these numbers that are just people who have clearly just scrolling past on their phone, you'll see that in reality you have far fewer views and a much less time watch. So you need to be very skeptical of these metrics. We're asking the same people that we're giving the money to to tell us how well it's performing. So we're stuck in this kind of 50 billion collective delusion where we'll say, let's give Google Facebook money, they're gonna distribute our content for us. Well, then ask them what they got for the money. They tell us that it did so, so well loads of people watched it, but we should all suspend a bit more money and then we believe them. And we're just caught in this lovely cycle of doom where we just give all these money to these huge corporations and don't actually necessarily get any value back. And there's two concepts with BrandWild. And we seem to be overly focused on the first, which is brand awareness. So the two concepts are brand awareness and brand affinity. So first of all, they know you. And secondly, they like you. And our current outdated model seems to be predicated on the idea of if we can just get people to know us, if we can get people to see enough of us, then they'll also start to like us. But actually in the modern world, I think we don't have to take this approach at all. We can cut out this notion of brand awareness. We can stop worrying about this idea of trying to get people to see us all the time and just go straight for the thing that we really care about, brand affinity. And this requires a new approach to content marketing. So receive wisdom has always been that shorter videos are better for marketing. People have short attention spans. If you can get everything into a very short period of time it's gonna provide more value and you'll have fewer people dropping off. But I'm not so sure if that's true anymore. Here is a video that we made for Wistia in 2017. We decided per the explanation that I gave earlier we had got to that stage where we were doing well on social media and we just decided actually here what we need to do is to invest in some advertising to grow our brand. The metrics kind of flattened out, knew that we needed to do something. So we injected loads of money into a big ad campaign trying to compete with the big players. And we spent about two million on different ads, bunch of TVs and billboards and digital stuff of course, Facebook and YouTube, lots of it. And we got about 43 million impressions on this particular campaign which was around putting faces on different everyday items and trying to kind of be about expressing your company more personally through video to advertise our video hosting software. And it completely failed and it just did nothing for the overall kind of results that we got from this the traffic was we got a bit more traffic from the campaign and that bit more traffic was about as much as if we posted a new particularly good blog post. So we spent two million bucks on really what could have just been a better blog post kind of sucked. And so we were chatting with Adam Lisa Gore about this who is the founder of a company called sandwich video based down LA. This was back in 2017. So we're saying, you know, this kind of dim work you've made loads and loads of really good ads for particularly software companies. Is there a way we could partner up and maybe explore doing something more creative? And a few years later, Chris Adams, the CEO of Wistia and Adam kind of got chatting and came up with the idea of we could do three different ads. One for $1,000, one for $10,000, one for $100,000 for the same product and see kind of how that played out. See which particular ads perform better. See what the creative process changed when you were having these really restricted budgets. So we made these three ads. This was one made with an iPhone and $1,000 for the total budget for the ad. And then we also did one where we spent $10,000 on production and this was with a Canon C300 camera, sort of a more of a mid-range video. And then lastly, a proper high-end you know, commercial ad for $100,000 using a proper cinema camera and area mirror. So we kind of explored doing these three different levels super bootstraps kind of mid-range and high-end to look at the difference in how it worked. And the results were actually like this. So the $1,000 video kind of in terms of the metrics we were measuring, which was cost per install of our application, that was the main metric for success. We saw that the best-performing video was actually the 10K, but you know, there wasn't a lot in it overall. Cost per install was much better, but for the $100,000 and the $10,000, they were pretty equal. And the cost per engage view, somebody watching at least 25% of the video was pretty similar for all of them, so fairly cheap. So we then off the back of this thought, well, let's you know, we've just created these ads and this was really helpful. Let's why don't we document the process? So concurrently with building the ads, we also created a documentary basically about this whole process. And this kind of just happened organically and we decided to then publish this as a long-form big creative piece and really explored the whole process of that kind of more creative and strategic process we've just gone through to make these three ads. So we made a long-form movie basically. It's a 90-minute documentary and we launched this on our website. It's called 1 to 100 and we put it all up there. And we had a kind of goal for this particular campaign. We thought, you know what? This has been a big investment for us. The whole creative team have just basically gone and spent several months building a long-form piece of content. If we can get 100,000 engaged views, that would be really good return. So we put this out and we were really hoping for something good and this is what we got. We got 100,000 engaged views. Sorry, we were aiming for 100,000 engaged views but we actually ended up 31,000 engaged views which was less than we were hoping for. So there was obvious kind of disappointment but we then kind of thought, well, hold on. Actually this campaign by not maybe not by the standards that we set but it seems to have been a success. We ended up winning a Webby Award for it. We got lots and lots more customers coming in saying they loved it and acquisition rate was up. And also our brand search was up significantly. It was up about 11% just off the back of this one particular campaign. So we knew that actually something had really worked. It's just that the metrics we were using weren't indicating that success. When we dug into another metric, things started to look a bit different. So if we looked at actually the time spent, we saw that the time spent with this one piece of 90 minute video which was 8,500 hours was equivalent to the amount of time that was spent watching the entirety of all of our blog content or reading the entirety of our blog content over that last year. So this was a huge difference in effort that all the blogs we'd ever made several, several thousand versus 1,170 but these four videos that lasted 90 minutes and actually delivered the same return. And it's clicked that actually a 30 minute interaction with 3,000 people did more for our brand performance than a three second interaction with 43 million people thinking back to that campaign that we did in 2017. So when we start to measure the idea that actually the key thing was time watch not number of touch points. So not number of impressions with the amount of time spent. The whole mentality shifted and the creative mentality shifted. We started to think about well, we're not going to care about the amount of people that we reach. We just care about the depth of that interaction. We care about the resonance that we're having with these people. So we then started to think there is a key metric that most of us are getting with all of our marketing and it is the key metric for measuring and achieving success with brand which is time spent. So if we then take different kinds of video content for example, here we have a product video on the left we have a social media video in the middle and then we have our new category of brand marketing video on the right. We can see that they have different skills and different kind of strengths. The one on the left product video not so many views has really helped with assisted conversions. The one in the middle, the social media video maybe hasn't really helped with the conversion or time spent but it has really helped us reach out more people. It has got that engage views. It has kind of got that reach. And then lastly the brand marketing video. Well, it may not have necessarily that reach and it may not help with conversions but it's really helped with engagement. It's really helped with people spending time with us. So instead of just what most of us are doing now and starting to create things that are just about touch points and the number of hits, reach and conversions start also to think about third category of content which is for brand marketing which is about amount of time spent. So this was a revelation for us and we realized this is what we should be doing. This is how we should be changing our marketing for brand. So we thought, well, what if we stop advertising on TV? What if we just stop investing all that money in TV and start instead investing, creating our own? And suddenly we saw that lots of other companies are doing this as well. Companies like Uber have started doing the thing called Uber Presents. MailChimp has started doing MailChimp Presents and even a small company down the road in Cambridge, Massachusetts called Price Intelligently, a profit well, have started making their own little series and podcast about how to measure pricing pages and how to just success of them. So lots and lots of different kind of companies across B2B and B2C were investing in instead of advertising building their own long-form content. And the value is obvious. We're short form advertorial. We're focused on watching involuntary. So we're shoving our content in front of people and hoping that they like it. Whereas with long form entertainment we are only really caring about people coming to watch us voluntarily. So we're really focused on that people choosing to watch the content. With short form advertorial it's about quick to consume. Long form entertainment it's about people spending a significant amount of time and investing their energy in watching our content. The former, the short form advertorial has to be simple and easy to understand whereas long form entertainment needs to be in-depth and detailed. And so what I would recommend and what I think we need to do in the modern world to really market our brand no matter whether we are small or a big business is to create a show. And this process is called brand affinity marketing. So back to our two concepts. Brand awareness, brand affinity. People know you, people like you. We can go directly to brand affinity because brand awareness is not necessarily the value it once was. In fact, we don't normally know about companies anymore through awareness. We know about them because they're recommended to us. So instead we have a concept called brand advocacy. If we think about the way in which we usually hear about products and services. Yes, partially it's to do with generic recommendations. So if I search for something like best lobster roll in Boston, I'm going to get some lists but am I going to trust this more than the alternative which is going into a Slack group and asking a bunch of Boston natives what their particular preferences for lobster rolls. I'm obviously going to trust the former. I'm also going to trust the latter, sorry. And this is the situation we're in where we now have instant access to recommendations from people who are experts in all the different kinds of things we have. So anytime we need purchasing information we don't normally necessarily go to generic sources. We instead go to our channels of Slack, of WhatsApp, of places where we know that we have experts and individuals who can give us specific recommendations that we would trust. So we initially think about building advocacy. If we need to think about trying to prove brand advocacy, we think about doing it through influence partnerships. And this can kind of work to an extent but there's a flaw with this because influencers are often just speaking directly to people. If we think about, you know, we have these different subsets after our target customers, we have professions of interest groups that our customers are part of, within that even stronger communities and subcultures influencers kind of sit off to the side and to try and work with influencers to directly then change the perception of overall market can be quite challenging. Influences are just kind of broadcasting and hoping to achieve shifts but most of the perception most of the actual brand salience comes from the conversations between individuals within the market and that's where things really starts to change. So we could then think about investing and well, let's really just try and speak to an entire professional interest group and try and win them over to try and build the advocacy that will lead to affinity. And again, that kind of can work but often these people kind of scattered and not necessarily talking to one another. The real smart place to aim with this kind of creative content is communities and subcultures because these are the groups of people who are really actively talking to each other all the time. So people who have an active specific interest in a certain thing, whatever it might be a certain passion and they are part of a community or a group or an undercurrent who are always kind of conversing and trying to help each other out with the situation. Those are the worlds in which you can really build a brand because this is where the conversation happens. So affinity is driven by identity. So how do we as brand marketers kind of then speak to that? How do we kind of get involved? Well, I think we need to speak to the subcultures. We need to find our nerds. And I'll give you an example of this. So I'm a musician. I'm a total kind of nerd for music and I am a part of the subreddit guitar pedals where people who are big into guitar pedals just post pictures of their pedal boards and different pedals and talk about it all the time very, very active community. So here is the subculture, how do we speak to them? Well, if we think about two different companies here that are both trying to sell to the wider community of musicians. One is a company guitar center, big kind of player in that market. And the other one is my local shop in London called Anderton's. And on the face of it, they look quite similar but Anderton's have really been able to stand out and achieve great success against some of the big players just by speaking directly to this community and subculture. So they have made a tonne and tonne of videos that are just basically musicians being really silly. So doing things like trying to test which different kind of amplifiers and guitars they can tell what the blindfold on. Experimenting and stuff, just messing around, doing all the things that people wish they could do if they had more money and time. And this of course speaks to that community and gets shared and people start to really care about it. So with this long form creative content you're going to start to create. Think about creating content for communities who speak to one another, not just your target customer. You need to go one level broader, one level more niche and say, who are we really trying to speak to in terms of community of people rather than a person? And then we need to think about content distribution. So once we have decided we are going to start to create this content we're going to create something different. How do we actually then distribute it? And I think we need to take a radically different approach because the way in which we distribute content right now is really just tied to that old model of eyeballs of touch points. This touch one area that what we really need to do is get as many people to see all of our content all the time as possible. And any opportunity to not distribute it further is a wasted opportunity. But I think this is flawed. This is what happens when I try and when I'm exploring a YouTube channel. Okay, let's check out this brand that I like on YouTube. Here's the latest video. Hey, I'm Chris from Wistia and I'm shooting this video on a webcam. Cool. You can make an awesome video using nothing but your laptop's webcam. So let's run through some tips on how to do it. First off, be sure to please keep the line. Oh, I remember this comedian. He was great. Oh, I've got to see this. This sounds fun. Oh, there's loads of good comedy stuff. What's this one here? This other one he's done. Oh, he was on Conan. Thank you. Thanks very much. Yes, you're up for it right. I'm actually from England. So I had a bit of a tough time getting through immigrants. What about these, what about these impersonations? Oh, an ad. Oh, for goodness sake. Okay. Wait for this to come. Yeah, next. Okay. What's this? Oh, what's this? Martial lamps. Oh, I was looking at buying a martial lamp. Oh, let's have a look at this. This seems cool. And today's video challenge. Okay, I'm going to like this video. What's it saying in the comments? Spot page from a selection of ants that maybe one of the people with a marshal. So, the first ant that we've got is... Okay, and what have they got here? Something about petalboards. Oh, I like petalboards. Hey, guys, it's the captain here. Oh, I need to buy a new petalboard. Let me have a quick look at that one there. That seems good. That event is TV. Okay. That's what it's talking about. I am it. What's this? An ad for nostalgic music center. It's the kind of thing I like. Oh, wow. Look at this record player. That seems great. Love it. I would love to get one of those. Anyway, how about dogs playing with cats? Great. That sounds cool. Let's see what we got here. Oh, perfect. Look at this one. Oh. Oh, no, wait. This is what I definitely want. Cats being jerks compilation. Is that your mouth? Sure. I have it. No, please. No. Come on. Oh, this is great. What was I meant to be doing again? You see, these platforms are not really built to optimize the time spent. They are built to serve as many ads as possible. So they are built with distractions built in them. So if we are optimizing the time spent, just thinking about putting our content everywhere across all these platforms and trying to get people to see it, will not necessarily actually optimize for the thing we really care about, which is the amount of time that people are spending watching our content. Instead, it will just optimize for the amount of people watching it. But all of those interactions which are not meaningful, genuine investments, are not going to help build a brand properly. So instead, I think what we need to do is start to think like a media company. And how do media companies work? Well, here is the example from The Good Place. So Good Place, obviously put up by NBC. Fantastic show, worth watching. What they do is they will create a new episode comes out and what they do is they'll create a trailer for it. They'll then make this trailer. They'll put that across every different kind of channel across different kind of cuts and different formats for Instagram, for Snapchat, for Twitter, for Facebook. And then they'll kind of also distribute it on TV and in front of other shows in front of ads. Then they'll have interviews with the cast members. So they'll come out promoting the fact that there's a new episode out. And this will be interviews on shows, on podcasts, on whatever. This itself will then be distributed in all these different social platforms as well. We'll then go and do further interviews and then that will be distributed in all these different platforms. And then finally, the episode launches. And then the episode comes out and it airs in a very restricted private space where people have to actively seek out and go to rather than being distributed in all different platforms. But we've built up the demand in advance. Then what happens? Well, then you can kind of rewatch it on the website and then there's highlights from this particular show that then we'll go out and be spread across on social media and then we're going to create more of those. And then there'll be a particular podcast and there'll be interviews on other podcasts by the cast members. And that will then be distributed in all these different platforms. And soon, as you can see, by every single episode, there are many, many multiple different assets all centered around promoting this core central asset of the particular content itself. And this is how media companies work. They don't think about content distribution. They think about audience development and audience acquisition. And the focus has to be instead of just thinking about getting your content out there. It's about bringing people to us so that we can control the experience so that we can ensure that they're watching as much as they can. So that we are using all this content that we're creating to create more content which goes on social media but using social media as a tool to build an audience and thereby build a brand. In other words, thinking of it like Netflix. So with Netflix, what do they do? They go on, do Netflix publish everything on social media? No, look at their YouTube channel and it's just trailers. It's clips, it's trailers, clips and trailers, snippets, tasters, trying to get people through their experience of social media to watch short form content in the manner that's gonna make sense on that particular platform where attention spans are short and they're only spending a few seconds watching quick snippets that drive them to a longer experience that they are then going to have that time and long engagement with content that's gonna really help build that brand affinity. So use social media to advertise your content, not your business. And this I think is the revolutionary aspect of this method of brand building. Instead of just trying to get us out there, we are trying to bring people to us. So market exactly like a media company. And at Westia, this is our attempt to do just that. After the success of 1 to 100, created a new series that came out a last summer called Brand Wagon. There was an interview show and this was our way of marketing that like a media company in social media. Comes a brand new show with a brand new strategy in a brand new studio. Introducing Brand Wagon. It's like a talk show, but for marketers. Hosted by Westia's own CEO. And some of you are probably thinking, Phil, this is crazy. Are you really saying that in order to build a brand, we need to become Netflix? Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, precisely. Not in the sense that you need to start building the amazing kind of content that Netflix are doing, not necessarily the high level, but you need to start thinking about creating content that speaks to a specific niche audience such that for them, because you have so well targeted to their particular interests, it is as interesting and as vital for them to consume your content as a weapon for them to watch Netflix. And think about the fact that you are a niche publisher and to build a brand you need to become a niche publisher, creating really different and interesting content for a very specific community that the wider media landscape are not going to invest in, but you as a business can. And if you become the Netflix of plumbing, if you become the Netflix of sales management, whatever it might be, through doing that, you can become the brand that will stand out, will build that reputation that lasts a long time. So think about audience distribution rather than, sorry, think about audience development rather than content distribution. You're trying to build that audience, build super fans, measure people when they get to your website in terms of the depth of their engagement, their connection. It doesn't matter how many there are in matters how deep their connection is with you, because having 3,000 people who really, really care about your business will deliver much more value in terms of word of mouth and brand salience and essentially preference at the end of the day than just getting a few hundred million impressions with a short ad that goes out on these different platforms. Care about depth of interaction, role of the amount of interactions themselves. So then you need to start thinking about how you can do that. Well, one of the key things is to then build that on your website and Wistia, after the success building this kind of strategy has actually pivoted the entire product to help serve it as well. So you can build up your Netflix on your website, your own kind of channel that's not full of ads that has this unique branded experience. And you can use therefore this particular place, this website asset that you have to then capture emails as well because an email is worth far more than a Facebook like or YouTube subscriber. So again, instead of thinking about social media as the place for this content, think about building your own ecosystem, bring people into the CRM, bring them through and start to communicate with them on a regular basis. If you own the distribution channel, you own the audience data. Then you don't have to worry about all that stuff we talked about to start with, with GDPR and connections and spending money with YouTube and Facebook every time that you need to try and promote your content. If you own the audience data, you can advertise more effectively as well. So you can start to use the advertising channels themselves to do more effective direct response advertising and more effective advertising of your content rather than just spending money fruitlessly on lots and lots of brand ads. So instead of just spending money on advertising your new strategies as follows, you are going to be trying to aim directly to build brand affinity. Your metrics for success here is going to be the time that people are spending with your brand. The creative that you're gonna invest in is long form entertainment. Ideally this is gonna be video content, but if you really can't start with a video, a podcast is a great way to go as initially as well. Something that people are gonna really spend time with consuming. You're gonna target subcultures and communities specific niche audiences who are passionate, who have a particular interest that they converse with each other about and you're gonna create the best content in the world, that group of people. And then how small and then how niche it is. And then with distribution, you're going to market like a media company. You're going to drive individuals to your platform. You're going to think about audience development rather than just trying to push your content out to them in all of the pictures. Sounds complicated, but I promise, just making a small start on this, you will start to see the returns very quickly. And if you need a hand getting started, I'm very happy to offer further suggestions and advice on maybe the audience you need to target or the kind of idea that you could go with for a long form entertainment series of your own. So please feel free to drop an email and I'm happy to help. And thank you ever so much for your time and take care.