 We're so glad you're joining us on hope today and you know we know the purposes and plans of God always prevail, but it's so important for us to be in the presence of God and to seek His face. I'm so glad you're joining us on this Tuesday. I'm here with Tom Hollis and Anna Fry and Anna tell us about our guests because we're diving in deep about a little bit about purpose. We've got a great guest and it's so good to be with you on this gorgeous fall day in the Pittsburgh area. But let's say it is a very human thing to hold big dreams in our hearts and desire to do great things. But when we go about it the wrong way we end up exhausted, dissatisfied and confused. Well our guest today Kelly Needham will join us in just a few minutes for a conversation about why chasing dreams, finding your calling and reaching for greatness will never be enough. Oh Tom, we are excited about this conversation today. I'm very excited. I love it when people go and reach for everything that God has for them, but I also love it when we serve God day by day, Sydney just doing those things, plowing ahead. I've had transition times in my life where I've gone from doing everything that seemed like was world changing and then all of a sudden I'm working at a warehouse and I'm like okay, what do I do? How did I get here Lord? What do I do here? But God has a purpose and plan for every season. He really does and you know I just think about my own life of different things where it's like I'm like you Tom, I'm like okay like I don't know why I'm here Lord, but you know there's a purpose in everything and I think sometimes we get so caught up in the rat race of the world and we look at what the world is doing that we need to be reminded for those of us that are in Christ is about the kingdom of God and it is serving people so there may be a season where God calls you to be in the warehouse or maybe a season he calls you to be a stay-at-home mom. Whatever that season may be I think it is so important to have a God perspective so we can truly walk it out and have peace in it Anna because I think a lot of times it's just like this rustle and tussle in our spirit where it's like God's like no I have you here for a reason and a season and a purpose. Yeah absolutely I mean I think so many of us can relate to the tension we feel where so much of life is made up of ordinary moments and yet we know that God has given us something within us to be able to do extraordinary things and it's so how do we find that satisfaction in the dailiness of life? Well in her new book Purpose Fold Bible Teacher Kelly Needham shares why chasing your dreams finding your calling and reaching for greatness will never be enough. She has good and maybe surprising news for those of us who long to live into what we were made for so Kelly welcome to hope today. Thanks so much Anna I'm so happy to be here with you guys. Well we're excited for this conversation because I know from your background like let's face it you're a published author, you're a bible teacher, a podcaster, you have five kids, two of which you have adopted and so like you are a woman doing extraordinary things and yet can you share with us a bit of your story of how you found the chasing after those big things never fully satisfies? Yeah well I started in my early years of marriage where I actually felt like I was doing nothing interesting I was married to a man who was touring he was a Christian singer-songwriter so he's on stages preaching the gospel and I'm kind of behind the scenes folding the t-shirts running the merch table you know teaching people to use the credit card machine and just felt like well he seems to be doing the really cool significant things people are telling me every night how his music has changed their lives and well I went in on that type of significant activity in my life but I felt like my most of my day-to-day activity felt very meaningless and so that's really where I began to wrestle with this and I think even in seeing the ups and downs of our marriage and both of our lives getting to publish books and spending a lot of my time in the hiddenness of motherhood and just home making behind the scenes really neither situation being you know in the extraordinary moments or in the ordinary moments has fully satisfied my heart I'm really actually made for something more than that and I think even the celebrity culture we see around us testifies to it that you can achieve everything you ever wanted and still be unsatisfied we were actually made for something more than achievement and accomplishment we were made for a person and if we don't live for a noun we will just keep living for verbs and they will never be enough we'll keep trying to do things and it won't satisfy us so no it's not wrong to do those things but man if that's that's what our hope is in that if I get to achieve this thing do this thing finally have this role this job it's just it's never gonna fully satisfy we're gonna find disappointment on the other side if that's what we're hoping in yeah absolutely I want to read this quote from your book that I just absolutely loved you said we were made for nothing less than the infinitely glorious breathtakingly beautiful person of god himself we weren't made for dreams but for the divine we weren't made for a calling but for christ we weren't made for greatness but for god can you unpack that for us yeah uh Isaiah 43 I think says it best maybe my favorite where god is speaking to his people and he says I formed you for myself so when he looks at us and says this is what I made you for he doesn't say I made you to do this specific thing to live out this specific calling to do this specific x y z whatever it is I made you for me you exist for me that's what I think you see in Genesis chapter three where it says we're made in his image our existence is tied to a person not a set of activities and that's when we come alive when we understand that and I think the the way that we are being fooled which is why I titled my book that way is even in some of our christian cultural things we're looking to tasks to fulfill us we're saying no god made me to do this thing and and yes he may have gifted you in some really specific ways and intends for you to live those things out but he actually made you for himself primarily this is why Jesus says follow me he doesn't say come do these set of tasks he just says stay close to me I made you for myself and this is where we find a lot of freedom because not everybody even has the opportunity to choose what they would like to do I mean there are people in the world who are born with severe disabilities who don't have the opportunity or the option to pick and choose what type of purpose they in calling they'd like to live out there are people suffering in cancer treatment centers that the hard work they're called to is enduring sickness and treatment and that's like a full-time job or there are people who are caregivers there are people in extreme poverty in parts of the world if we preach the message that life comes alive when you can discover the purpose god made you you know put in you and then live it out there's just a whole group of people were isolating again it's not wrong to do those things but we were made for the very person of god and that means if at the end of our life we have very little to contribute to him we don't lose our sense of purpose we exist for him whether we have a lot to contribute or a little and again I find that to be such a freeing message and one that has grounded me through the unique seasons of releasing books and doing interviews like this and also when I walk downstairs and I have a lot of dishes to do and laundry to fold I still find meaning in that because I wasn't made for the task I was made for the person I do the task with and I do the task for and that has really brought so much purpose to my life in every moment well Kelly I really love that and I love that you know you are seeing and sharing with us both sides of that because I've again an organization that I was part of before there was this saying like we're ruined for the ordinary and the trouble was then when that's not there anymore all of a sudden the ordinary is what you have in front of you and and you know just how does someone who is very it can be a very driven person or has dreams and visions that are maybe don't seem to be there right now what does that person do with that ordinary day they find in front of themselves that's a great question an important one I think first it's good for us to know that you'll never escape the ordinary I mean you can do you can go do missions overseas you can you know get a job on a radio or a tv station like you all have or write books like I do but at the end of the day you still got to fold the laundry and you still got to call your mom and you still got to learn to get healthy habits in your life to have good sleep you know so the ordinary is never going to go away you cannot escape it it's just a part of life that God has been content to build into life and so it's part of his design I think it's good for us to receive it and embrace it and not see it as something evil and to escape and get away from you know Paul will say in the New Testament whatever you do whether you eat or sleep or drink I mean he's picking the most basic human functioning eating and drinking he says do it for the glory of God so he's trying to infuse the ordinary with meaning not escape it but I think the other thing that's really helped me is just paying more attention to the stories in my bible we tend to assign a lot of meaning to these stories because we see how God used them but if you really try and put yourself in the position of the people you're reading about so many of the things they're doing are not extraordinary they're doing fairly normal ordinary things they're enduring suffering they're having difficult conversations you know the New Testament exists because Paul wrote letters to people he wanted to encourage who are new in the faith I mean it's not anything astronomically you know most the time astronomically out in the out of the ordinary it's usually very ordinary things people did in faith what was set before them by God and he used it to advance his kingdom and so seeing that as I studied the bible more was really helpful for me to go okay I don't know how God's using this particular conversation with my neighbor right now or this particular way that I'm serving in my church that no one is really seeing I can't really see how God's going to take that and advance his kingdom but it's not my time to see it yet of course I see it in the stories of my bible because I'm after they were alive and after I'm alive I'm sure people will see all sorts of meaning that came from those ordinary moments of faithfulness but this is not the time for me to know that this is the time for me to be faithful and to trust that God is going to take anything I do in faith and make it expand and advance his kingdom in all the ways I would hope it would you know I just have to be patient and wait for the results of that till later I don't get to see all the fruit right now. Kelly that's such a beautiful point and can you also talk with us about social media and how that has added to our confusion about purpose and calling? Yeah it has added a lot of confusion because it's changing how we imagine things it is putting before us things to think about images and pictures and videos and it's showing us what is celebrated generally and the things that are ordinary just don't look very cool on social media I mean a pile of folded freshly folded laundry doesn't look very interesting so we don't post it but doing that with exercising patience toward my children doing it with a glad heart and all the things that may come from that I think God can use that in his kingdom but again all if all I'm seeing and all I'm setting before my eyes are the really unique out of the ordinary things other people are doing then that's what I'm training myself to move toward you know there's this passage in 2nd Corinthians chapter 3 that says when we behold God we become more like him I think there's a principle there what you behold you become like and so if social media is what you're beholding all the time then you will of course move your life in those directions you will see less and less value in the hidden things the things that are happening behind the scenes those quiet moments spent with God or with a friend or a neighbor or a family member or praying and interceding you know you're going to see less value in those things because that's not being posted on social media and you're going to see more value in the things that are very visible but the kingdom of God is so upside down what God values what he sees as significant is usually not what humans see as significant you know it's what you see in the Tower of Babel they're building this huge tower to heaven it looks super impressive and God's not impressed he would rather scatter the people into things that are going to be forgotten so that his kingdom and his glory advances then then be remembered by this fully built tower and so social media we just have to guard how much we're letting it into our life and make sure we're stewarding our imaginations and kind of taking them back from what's being set before us and using I think the scriptures to awaken for us a different excitement and imagination for our own lives yeah so let's talk about that because I love that idea of like reclaiming our imagination from culture so what does that look like okay so i'll tell you what I do in my life so one has been reading stories in the bible and slowing down over them and paying attention like joseph for example uh joseph finds himself at like the top of you know the echelons of leadership in uh egypt and then fights for sexual purity he's you know advanced palm by pota for his wife and chooses to fight for holiness and purity and that is a great act a great work right but the result of that is he's thrown in prison and forgotten about for two years and i i'll use that to remind myself okay it's some of the greatest work in my life god may hide me and it may pull me into obscurity and that doesn't mean you're not with me and that doesn't mean that you have a plan uh so i'm using bible characters and people i read about there to just slow down and pause and go okay what did it feel like for him to be in that moment but then the second thing i'll do is i'll sometimes just pull scriptures from like the psalms and ask myself you know what is what is god impressed with you know it says he peers down over heaven and searches the earth looking for whose hearts are fully devoted to him and so i'll just take a moment sometimes even after i get off social media okay lord this is what our culture thinks is impressive is what's on this you know on instagram or whatever our youtube what do you think's impressive when you look at the earth today right now what are you excited about what are you maybe calling the attention of the angels over and going look at that that is amazing i love that what is he looking at because jesus when he's walking on the earth calls attention to a lot of things and it is not what his disciples are impressed with you know it's the widow giving her last sense in faith it is uh the you know bartimaeus the blind beggar just in his desperation and need having just no concern about himself and just begging god to heal him i want to be counted among that group of people i want to be a group part of that group that god looks at and goes i love that faith i love what that and and just taking a moment to even imagine that scene think about it really helps my heart come alive in some new ways it helps me to steward again that imagination away from what social media attempts me to think about and into what is what is god impressed with yeah and i'm thinking about mary and martha and how jesus loved that mary sat at his feet meanwhile martha was so busy busy busy running around trying to have everything be just right and isn't that one of our human conditions is that we have a very difficult time with resting with being still and so we are an exhausted people can you talk to us about the importance of resting and being still rest is so important you know it's part of the first covenant god made with his people he gave them a sabbathay told them part of the way they would be known as his peoples that they had the ability to rest because in god's economy he does the work not us but when we think that our meaning comes from what we do then we actually have no category for rest because meaning comes from our activity meaning comes from what we achieve and accomplish even if it's for the kingdom i think martha was doing really good things for jesus i think she would have looked at her life and said i'm doing this for you jesus but sitting and being with him is more important than doing for him and he makes that very clear in that story because again we're made not to do uh we're made to know primarily we're made for not verbs but for a noun we're made for a person and that means there's actually nothing more important than having time to rest and especially time to know him that means life's more about knowing in reality than it is about doing i mean you see that in jesus serman uh on the mount the very end he says all these people come to him saying here all the things i did for you and he'll say i never knew you uh knowing is more important and knowing comes by way of resting and being still it's really really good news that we actually have not only permission to rest but a command to rest and that's part of our true identity and what god has made us for kelly what's it been like to learn this and what should we expect as as people of god that will embrace rest and embrace focusing on christ what what has been the the fruit of that in your own life there's there's definitely been some wrestle in there because uh you know we like doing really cool significant things and sometimes i don't want to embrace what he has for me in the ordinary so there's been some healthy wrestle with god in it but as i've let him give me his vision for my life through the word to show me that uh i really am made not to do great things but to know the great one when i've really embraced that it has uh it has not de elevated moments like this writing books and all those things of course god is using those things i believe that i wouldn't have written a book if i didn't believe that but what it's done is it's elevated every other moment of my life to the same level of importance as i might place on a published book my published book matters and i prayed over it a lot but you know what my conversation with my unbelieving neighbors matters just as much the conversation i have with my kids at the end of the night matters just as much the way that i operate in my home behind the scenes the way that i interact with my kids teachers or the way that i interact with family all of that is as significant in god's eyes and as uh has as much potential to change the world and it's actually awakened a sense of uh my purpose is my life feels purposeful all the time now versus when it used to feel purposeful and just these really narrow seasons these small moments that felt really purposeful and everything else kind of felt like uh it's not as significant you know everything is meaningful now and not only that it's really freed me and relieved me from being attached to my work my work doesn't define me anymore and give me my sense of identity god does and it's liberated me to appropriately take rest breaks and even have an eye for where ministry may become an idol in my life and learn when it's time to maybe pull away from it so that my heart can stay close again to the one i was made for not the work i was made for but the one i was made for and uh it's just been so liberating and freeing and fulfilling and again that's one of the reasons why i ended up writing this book was going i want other people to experience that same joy and sense of purpose in every moment of their life yes it is indeed liberating and freedom to just enjoy the presence of god and not always be on that rat race towards the extraordinary so thank you kelly for your heart and for sharing your book and your heart in this book it is good news for every single one of us today thanks so much for having me i'm so glad to be here with you guys yeah absolutely well stay with us at home wherever you're watching today because after the break we have a scripture that talks about abiding staying sticking close to christ you're not going to want to miss the rest of the conversation we'll be right back cornerstone television exists because of the faithful support of our partners thanks to you we get to proclaim the good news of jesus both locally and around the world all this month is our way of saying thanks we are offering this beautiful and inspirational 16 month calendar for your best gift to see tvn this special israel calendar 75th anniversary edition celebrates 75 years of modern israel as a nation each month you'll enjoy a new and beautiful feature of the holy land you'll be blessed to see places in the bible come alive this 16 month calendar runs from september 2023 to december 2024 and has plenty of space for writing your daily activities request the special israel calendar 75th anniversary edition as our thank you gift when you give to c tvn today to give call 888-665-4483 or go to ctvn.org slash donate hope happens here we're so glad you're joining us on hope today and what you just watch if you want to get connected to us and support us for the good work that we're doing feel free to give us a call at 888-665-4483 we are so grateful for all of you whether you're in pittsburgh alabama jacksonville atlanta wherever you're watching from we love that you are part of our family we're so glad that you are able to listen to that conversation that kelly was sharing about really truly just pressing into jesus and knowing no matter what season we're in no matter where god has us it is so important that we keep our eyes on him and tom we have a scripture that we want to share with our audience today i want to share this with you i i do want to say i loved what kelly said about we're called to a noun jesus we're called to a person not a verb which is all the doing things we do that that'll stick with me but this this verse talks about that too john 15 five in the niv says i am the vine you are the branches if you remain in me and i and you you will bear much fruit apart from me you can do nothing now i remember this verse guys it says abide and now we don't use that that's not a verb we use very much i'm gonna i'm gonna go abide in my living room right now we don't say that very often but to remain to we understand that we to be in a place where you're in the presence of god to remain in that vine of jesus that's who we're called to that's what we're really meant to be is to stay there and to learn from take on think about the apostles they were with jesus three and a half years before they really got released they did a little bit of things but after that they really got released to go out and change the world but they spent that time abiding in christ remaining with him that's what we're called to anna that's the key thing i'm taking away from today right absolutely you know we live in a world that constantly pulls us away from the one thing that matters most which is enjoying the presence and person of god i'm sure many of you can relate to finding your identity and what you do whether that's motherhood whether that's your job whether it's your ministry but the thing with life is that our seasons our jobs what we're involved in is always shifting and changing and whenever circumstances of life even flip things upside down is suddenly you don't have what you put your whole identity in then where is it that we find our identity and our security and our satisfaction and our purpose well again it is in the person of jesus christ and so when he says to abide to remain in him who is the vine and we are the branches he infuses us with everything we need to live that full abundant life and you guys what i love about that scripture too is it does talk about how it is god's desire for us to bear fruit to bear much fruit and when we think about the fruit of the spirit that fruit is love joy peace patience kindness goodness faithfulness gentleness self control it's not publishing a book or like those are awesome but it's not the fruit that lasts i this is one of my favorite scriptures and it's so powerful and we just encourage you even as we go up the air just to read through the john 15 that whole chapter and just to meditate because what i really sense and feel that god is looking for us in this season to do is to be connected to him and i think too a lot of times i'm just gonna say this i just feel like there's just been this idol that's been in christianity and christian culture that has made me almost sick to my spirit about this i want to be an influencer i want to gain this power i want to gain that access like if you are seeking the holy spirit only to get things only to move up only to be a leader or to say look at me you have a spirit of pride that's within you and guess what god's going to do as you bear if you're in him he's going to cut off those branches he's going to prune you that's another thing when it comes to the fruit in order to bear fruit sometimes he has to cut away things that don't look like him that don't reflect him and so it's so important and we just encourage you in the season check your own heart go before the lord and say god what are some of the idols that have been in my heart what are some of the things that i have put before you what are some of the successes or what i thought life would look like because when i'm telling you when he their seasons he will pull it all away so that you will know that he is the only one that remains that he is the only one that deserves to be praised he's the only one that deserves your attention and your affection and your devotion and that is our heart cry for you today that you would just abide in him and the greek i know it means it's like it's just a dwelling it's just a boating it's about making residents and making home within him make him your home make your heart just so part of him and we are just so grateful that you've joined us on hope today and you know we just want to give you an opportunity to call our prayer line at 888-665-4483 because maybe that's something that you're wrestling with today maybe something you want to abide with Jesus like never before we'll just know what we have prayer partners that are always standing by that want to stand with you and pray with you and encourage you we love you so much know that your purpose is in him and him alone have a great day on tomorrow's hope today when life decides to knock us down god never counts us out speaker and author real talk kim shares how you can get back up after feeling down and defeated by choosing to live boldly and freely in your god-given purpose that's tomorrow on hope today cornerstone television wishes to thank all our faithful viewers whose consistent prayers and financial support have made this program possible