 to talk about Transformers with composer Steve Jablonsky. I'm Kaya Savas. I run film musicmedia.com. You might have heard of it. If you didn't, go check it out. We have some cool stuff there. I want to thank Creature Features and Taylor White for hosting this amazing event. And give them a round of applause. And let's get things on their way. We can welcome composer Steve Jablonsky. Hello. Yeah, you guys use your mic or something. Thank you, water. So Steve, how are you doing? I'm all right. I survived the 101. Yeah, I can't all the way up here. So we're here to talk about Transformers today. A little-known fact, Steve started scoring Transformers when he was 15. No, actually, it's been 10 years. It's 2007, was the first one. Does it feel like 10 years of Transformers in your life? Yeah, it does. There was enough space in between that I could recover and do other things, so each one felt a little new. Let's rewind to the first film. And talk about when that project started coming together and when Michael Bake approached you for it. I know it was a big thing, because it was kind of his... He started, he branched away from Jerry Brackheimer. He was doing working with DreamWorks, and Spielberg was involved. So talk about kind of building those first conversations you had about what the music was going to be like for Transformers. He's not a man of many words, and I think kind of the only direction I got was this has to have some kick-ass themes, and one threat he threw at me, one down, I don't know if it was one threat, but he said, Stephen's gonna be listening to these themes next week, so... And I knew which Stephen he meant. He's only the one Stephen, really, so that put a little pressure on me. But what he was showing me was so inspiring, it just looks so amazing. I still remember looking at the first renderings of Optimus and going, you know, that looks so real. We'd never really seen anything like that. Now it's like, whatever, we've seen that so many times, but back then, it wasn't that long ago, it was really revolutionary. I remember reading things where the ILM computers were burning down the middle of the night from rendering, yeah. That's Michael's proud of that, I'm sure. But he doesn't get too specific with music. He just, he'll usually say, here's a scene that I've cut together or something he's proud of or thinks it's representative of the film or whatever, and he'll show it to me and say, go work on that. So when you start, I know your method is you create, you kind of create these suites beforehand to kind of build themes and everything, and I think the biggest thing for Transformers success were the themes, and I think those lived on today. I mean, you hear them in events, you know, fireworks and stadiums for football, I mean, everything. So when you were creating these big heroic themes, I mean, how did you kind of boil down the themes for the Autobots and then the Decepticon themes which have a pretty cool chant, and I think there's some cool things behind that one too. Well, with any film, I just start writing ideas and end up with a ton of tracks and some of them stick and some of them don't, and the first Transformers, most of them stuck. Michael liked a lot of them. The one that I wrote as the Autobots theme was I didn't write it with the intention of it being the Autobots theme. It was just an idea I had, a melodic idea, and I fleshed it out, and he kind of threw it around the film, and it just felt right for those guys. I mean, of course, I kind of thought this would be heroic and our heroes are Autobots, so the Decepticons thing, that just kind of came out of nowhere. I was messing around with that rhythmic riff, that chant idea just on a choir sample, and it just expanded out of that. And... But didn't you say you kind of took the words? Yeah, we had to decide what should they say, because I had just used like, ah, ah, ah, and it sounded stupid, but I knew I wasn't going to do that in the final. So I came up with the genius idea of taking, since these are the Decepticons, I wrote down all of their names by syllable, and just kind of flipped them around and jumbled them up into other words, new words, and we had to delete a few that sounded slightly obscene. And... And a few that sounded like, I don't know. When we were recording, occasionally, we'd go, did they just say, what did they say? Mercedes? So we'd have to take some of those out, but yeah, that's where that language came from. Cool. So as the series kind of progressed, things got more complex, and you have to try to outdo the last one as things. The second one kind of threw a big challenge at you guys, because it was the writer strike film, and when you're working with kind of no script structure, how did that affect your process? I know that Michael was probably trying to scramble together something, when it came down to the score. I know that was a pretty hectic thing, so how did you not collapse under all that pressure? I don't know, I think I did it a couple of times. You, yeah, that one was kind of a mess, because they started shooting before the script was finished, so we didn't really know how it was going to end, and that makes it a little tricky, but I sort of knew the themes, I mean, if the people who've seen them all know that they kind of fall into a similar pattern, as far as the chunks of story and what happens, and so I kind of knew, and Michael, you know, I have the script, obviously I would read that, and I just started writing themes like I always do, and one thing that Michael has said to me since the second film was I don't, I don't want any of those old themes, so if anybody here is wondering why, we don't reuse them that much, that's why. He wanted every film to be sort of a new thing, and I always wondered if subconsciously he kind of knew they were all sort of the same, and he wants the music to make them different, which is fine with me, it may seem for me, but a lot of fans were like, why didn't you, you have all these themes from the first one, where they all go, that's where they went, and but I would squeeze them in when I could, and by, inevitably at the end of each film, he would say to me, we should use some of those old themes, and he would, and this is after months of him going, I don't want any of that stuff, that's the old fashion stuff we don't sell, whatever. He's a unique dude, did I, what was your question? Did I answer it? Yeah, I think that was about the second film. And throughout the course of the movie, he's got to work with some other additional artists as well, like Limp Bizkit, and I'm not, let me get off. Sorry. It's that one. Imagine Dragons, and Linkin Park, sorry, Miss Book, yeah, Linkin Park and Imagine Dragons, so when you work with these other kind of big group names, how do you incorporate your sound with them to, because they write on a few tracks, and how was that collaboration with them? It was cool, they'd come in, I worked more closely, I think, with Imagine Dragons, just because they came to my studio, I went to their studio, but Linkin Park came to my place as well, and it was their, I forget the song name, but they did a few, obviously, but there was one, they all blur. They had a really cool piano riff, they all have cool piano riffs, sorry, but they gave me the multitrack, and I would just work it into the score, and do orchestral versions of it. So they only came over once, and it recorded some sort of wild tracks for me. Just use it for like the Nest theme, yeah, that was, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's pretty cool. Imagine Dragons, that was the same sort of thing, although I had the singer, Dan, sing on a couple things, which was really cool. Yeah, there's vocals in the score, which you know, the lyrics in the score. Yeah, we went to Vegas to their studio, and just recorded a bunch of stuff with them, and brought it back, and cut it all up, and put it in the movie. And thank God, there were a couple spots where I pitched it to be in the key of my cue, and I was worried that they would be mad, and they, at the premiere, they're like, hey, that was cool that you pitched that, and you sped it up, and I'm like, okay, do you really think that, or are you pissed? I don't know. There's one scene where it was a little bit higher pitched, maybe, than because I sped it up a little bit, and I was a little worried, but I got liked it, so. Actually, though, that's a good story. In my demo that I made, the vocals sounded a little funky, because I just did it quickly. I did the processing quickly, I sped it up, and pitched it, and everything, so it would fit, with the intention of always going back and redoing it better. You can do a better version of it with other software, it just takes longer, it's boring, but. So, Michael was living with the demo version forever, and the final dub came along where we mixed the whole film, and I replaced it with the new vocal, the new, shiny, processed, sounding much better vocal, and Michael was like, what the fuck happened to the vocals? I'm not kidding. I'm like, oh, you mean it's better? No! So, back in goes the demo vocal, I try. There's 50 examples of that sort of thing. Michael gets very used to things. Right. Like, he's got an ear, serious ear, as far as listening and specific little things, nuances, he wasn't having that new vocal, even though it was better. Right. So, now we're at the fifth, I mean, the last night just came out, that's the fifth Transformers film, how did this one differ than all four that came before? And I mean, how did you approach this one as something new, even though it's the fifth in the franchise? That you got to compose, which is very rare these days. I mean, how often do you see a composer scoring five of the same film in the same franchise? I mean, not even Marvel and DC, you know, it's like, it's a pretty big thing. Yeah, the main producer gave me a jacket that says for five, something, I don't even know, I should have brought it to show you. Right. There were like, I think 31 of us that had worked on all five movies and we got a jacket for it. But when Michael told me about the whole King Arthur thing, I thought, oh, that's cool, that got me immediately excited and I started writing just based on that. I thought, do I give me a chance to try something slightly different? Right. And they showed me that whole opening sequence. That was the first thing I saw and I said, oh, is that, how much of that sort of thing is in the movie? And they're like, well, there's like one flashback and... So I pictured all of this really cool Transformers action on these Scottish planes where they filmed, but, so, but whatever, I wrote those themes just inspired by this whole idea that the Transformers are connected to history of King Arthur. Right, but you got to carry the theme throughout. You got to carry the title. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You tried to forget her name, but her character, she was a descendant. Yeah, a descendant of Merlin. No, I liked that idea. I just think that they should have picked one storyline, in my opinion, and stuck with it. Right. And there was, it could have been a good film. That's why we were all very frustrated. As a composer, it's frustrating to track the stories when he's doing a lot of this, taking these scenes and... So how do you, I mean, yeah, how do you keep up with that when you write a piece of music? And I know this one, I know Michael likes to edit down to the wire, and I think certain of the films, each premiere had a different cut. I read them, saw that, and like with this one, I mean, when you have a certain flow going and he moves something here and there, I mean, that ruins everything for you, right? I mean, how do you... Yeah, pretty much. How do you... How do you... Well, it depends on much time you have. Right. If you have enough time to redo it. But he gets so crazy at the end because that's when all these visual effects are coming in. Right. And I just, I don't know why they don't do that stuff sooner. There's, sure, it comes down to money, but a lot of the visual effects I didn't see until... Am I too loud? Is that okay? I didn't see until the premiere. Like I didn't see the finished thing. And a lot of them, I really just didn't see until the very end. So you can only do... And he hasn't seen them. So he's like, well, we're waiting, ILM, he curses ILM a lot. He does. And so, yeah, we're getting shots every day and we'll set, and we get versions of picture three times a day. We'll get the cut of the movie. So our hard drives are just filling up. Yeah, we'll get three cuts of the movie a day, towards the end. And you can't, there's like, what am I supposed to do with that? And just, I'll pick one and work on that one and sometimes they wouldn't tell me, this big change had happened because they just forgot, because they're all crazy in the cutting room and we just stumble, okay, what happened over there? Why did you move that there? And that music doesn't work at all anymore. So there's a lot of things in the film that made me cringe because, you know, they used to flow well, melodically and dramatically, but now because he got on a chop the scene in half, it's just like... Yeah. It's cat. How long are typically his first cuts? Does he give or show you, like, is it? This one, I don't even remember. It was over three hours for sure. And he wanted to get it much lower than it ended up, but he was going to, I don't know if he wants me to tell people this, but he had this idea. He said, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna take out the end credits. What, okay. And he said, I'm gonna, like, we can have a link. Let's say if you want to see the credits, go to... And I'm like, that's how you're going to shorten the movie? The problem is not the credits, it's all the other stuff. So that's, he just can't bring himself, and then, you know, I respect that. He's a filmmaker. Right. And believe, there's a whole stable of film editors telling him for months, like, one guy had a grade. I, he's like, just take out the whole thing of Mark in the last night and the sword. And I'm like, yeah, nobody cares. This is a Transformers movie. Oh God, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be hired again, but... Well, it's the last one. I think you're okay, right? Okay, yeah. But that was kind of my problem with it. I didn't, it's a cool story, but maybe in another movie, not in the Transformers. Right, right. So I, I did the best I could. But the album that we have here, though, this is your presentation. I mean, you really made sure that this is the presentation. Yes, oh yeah. These are all, water. I have some, right, I think we have some. Yeah, that, another reason I like to write sweets, we call them, is for that reason. Right. Those are all the things that I, well, for the most part, all the theme tracks are all the ones that I wrote just as pieces of music, not to picture. Knowing that, those are the ones I send to Michael and say, what do you think? Right. And he kind of slaps them around the movie. And then we fine tune from there. But, but yeah, a lot of that. I don't think there's an edited cue on that CD, even though in the film there is not an unedited cue. And that's for true. That's definitely the case. There's not one cue that's not edited. So let's talk about writing for action. I think that's such a complex thing where your music is competing with some of the most crazy sound effects. I mean, there's always sound coming from every speaker, surround sound. And does that affect the type of instruments you pick and type of rhythms and stuff like that? When you know you're writing to something that's like all the time, like where you have to compete with that? It does. It's a tricky balance because you have to write something that you know Michael is going to respond to. Which is just, if it's an action cue, it needs to be, you know, really high energy. And, but I don't generally hear the final sound effects until the very end. So the way it usually works. And having done all five movies, I know that sound guys really well. They're very cool guys. They're really good. I think they did all the Lord of the Rings too. They, they get my music so they hear what I'm doing. And they try to tailor around it as best they can. And you know I'm conscious of it as well if there's obviously something metallic going on. I'm not going to do a bunch of metal percussion or something but those guys are really good in that they always get, whenever they get a reel of film, they, it's got my music in it. So they can work around it. And if they have any questions they'll call me or they have gone so far as to time, I told you this before, time rhythmically their sound effects to the music to help get with the flash. The helicopter blades, right? Yeah, they did that in the third one or they will pitch shift to sound effect to be in the key, you know. And, but it's still inevitably at the dub stage which is, it's a dub stage for those who don't know is a big movie, giant movie theater with a mixing console in it. You guys, you're in LA you probably all know this but, and we just mixed the movie while watching it a thousand of times. But yeah, and at that stage, that's where all the dialogue, all the music, all the sound effects go in. So there are always scenes that are like, oh my God, this is just a mess. And there's so many. So we'll take out some drums for this section and they'll take out some gunfire at this section. It's always comes down to fine tuning at the end. We try to do as good a prep as we can because we don't run into those things, but we always do. Right, so now that, I mean, after five films the music has become part of pop culture and everything and you'll see it all around, you'll see it at stadiums and stuff like when you hear your theme playing like with a firework show somewhere in the Midwest or something, like what does that evoke in you as a composer who wrote that? That's one of the coolest things for me. It's just the fact that somebody felt connected enough to that music that they thought, yeah, let's use that for this big thing that we're doing. That's kind of what inspires me to keep writing and I've seen a lot of examples of that. Although the Transformers music Michael told me early on, did I tell you this, that he didn't, he said, look, I know this is money out of your pocket, but I don't want this music all over the place. I don't want it diluted. I don't want this, I don't want car commercial, Chevy commercial, we're getting a lot of requests but I'm saying no, it's just a blanket. No, not that we can't, you can't license this music for anything. Oh wow. Except sports, he said, except sports they have some loophole. Yeah, because I see it at football games all the time. Yeah, so I don't know. He said there's some way they can do it, but anything else, and I thought that was good. You know, that was a good call, I don't know. Some extra cash, but it's, you know, I understand where he's coming from. Because yeah, it's more special if it's, you know, if you hear it, I think a lot of times it kind of waters it down a little bit for sure. Do you have a favorite theme over the five films that you've, that speaks to you more than any of the other ones? Oh my God. Out of all your babies, which one is your favorite? Well the one that comes to mind is only, it only comes to mind because everyone, it seems to be everyone's favorite. And I'm still not even sure why. I'm glad they like it, but the arrival to earth and everybody seems to love. So that just by default of fans and everything, it's coming to mean a lot. Yeah, for the transformers. It means a lot to me that they have grasped onto it. I'm just like, what did I do? I gotta do that again. But I don't know what I did. So kind of looking back at every, your entire transformers experience up to this point, what's one word you would use to describe it? Just say it all. Oh God. The entire thing. The entire all five. Exhausting, maybe. No, exhausting on one hand, but really rewarding and fulfilling. I don't know how that's three words, but because it has, you know, I get messages from like this teenage girl and I don't know where she's, somewhere in Europe, keeps saying how, so I forget which theme she glatched onto from the new one, but how it's, it made her feel better that day and she was having a really terrible day or I don't know, she didn't elaborate why, but she said it just made her feel like she'll be, everything will be okay. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm gonna tear up here, something like that. And that's, you know, I've gotten so many of those and the transformers say what you will about the films, they do reach a lot of people all over the place. And I have them to thank for, you know, introducing all these people all over the world to me and my music and, you know, I can do all the last witch hunters I want and nobody will have a clue who I am, but the transformers is such a big thing. Right, yes, I mean, it's a lot, a lot of people, yeah. Yeah, and I took that, that's maybe why the first one was so scary because I knew how important this franchise was to my own brother, I saw him grow up with these toys, I was just slightly too old to be playing, but I saw what he was, how excited he was for this stuff and, so, yeah, it's been a lot. And I think that growing Europe means a lot to everyone, I'm gonna relate to that as well and I'm sure everyone else here can. And so thank you for bringing that music to us and let's, I know you guys might have some questions, so let's open it up for some questions from the audience. Yes. Let's go to the front right here. Hey, hey. Hey, so just a question for you guys. It's interesting now, I was a, you know about that documentary that just came out, the score, okay, so you were at the Q and A on the Friday at the Terminals. Yeah, yeah. Maybe by the way, I was listening to Tyler the next night. Oh yeah, thanks. I was, yeah, and these are a few new game scores. I know you contributed to the music board franchise, well, a lot of us, I work in the gaming industry, so I'm just very curious, you have, I don't know, preference, but do you have any ambition or even approach recently to doing the games, or do you, is that something you're interested in? Yeah, no, I was approached, I've been approached a few times. It just never worked out schedule-wise. There was one, I probably shouldn't say this, because it's, they're really like hardcore about it. There's a big game that's coming on the next few years that I was approached to do, and I just couldn't do it because of my schedule, because they, as you know, they have milestones that you have to reach and it's not like you work on it for a few months and you're done, you work on it a month here, a month here, a month here, over the course, and I couldn't figure out a way to make it work, but I love to, I love games, I play games more than I should admit. Is the process a little extreme or is it very similar? It's different, actually, because of just the technical approach where you write, I'll get sheets that say we need 90 seconds of moderate tempo action music or a minute of ambient spooky music. There's like 100 of those, yeah, and it always has to loop back to the beginning seamlessly so it can play forever. So it's just, it's a different process. The cinematics, the little things in the middle of the game are more like what I'm used to, because they're like little scenes, but the gameplay stuff, it's fun, I like it, it's not, because I'm not worrying about picture. I'm just writing stuff. Anybody else? That's on the back of there. I was just wondering, what was the story I needed, dark and loose, or if my hands I won't wear anything? Yeah, yeah, that's kind of a pain in the butt that this whole thing, there's a, I'll just quickly explain. That one went away because there's a union rule, a musicians union rule in LA, well any musicians union, but that's where I recorded all of the transformers. So they all are affected by this rule that if they sell 15,000 units, the musicians get a bonus, all of the musicians get a bonus so that they're kind of partaking in the success of the film and the soundtrack. But the studio didn't want to pay it, so instead of paying it, as soon as it hit 14,999, they yank it. Yeah, and I didn't even know, that was a terrible time when I learned about all this stuff because people started messaging me on whatever Facebook or stuff saying, what, where did the soundtrack go? And I'm like, oh, it's an iTunes, just go, just click on iTunes and type it in. They're like, no, it's not, so I looked, I went iTunes, where did it go? It must be a mistake and I started looking into it and you can't get answers from a studio on this sort of thing for, took it forever, but I, oh God. I am actively looking for a way to do something to get that music. Even, it came down to me going, what if can I put it on my own website for free so just people can listen to it, but they would, track it down. They would kill, oh yeah, they would kill me, but that's what it comes to. And now we're at a point where so few people buy CDs anyway or even buy albums on iTunes almost. It's like they'll buy the track that they want and then they'll go listen to the rest on Spotify. So it's really getting hard to convince anyone to make soundtracks, CDs, especially it's Lollaland and the guys are like, you know, they're saviors for this sort of thing. Yeah, applause for Lollaland Records. Come on. I agree, I wish, the third one that was sort of in the, in the foggy area where I didn't really know this was all happening. So that's why that one kind of got screwed big time and the fourth one I really tried to make sure that didn't happen, but you know, it sold 15,000 and now it's gone from iTunes but the EP is still there and I'll explain why quickly. The EP is still there because that's all samples. That was the way around it. I said, how about we just release a few tracks? But it was just too difficult to redo the whole score or to remix and re-release the whole score with just samples and plus, I don't know, fans would even want that, but yeah. But yeah, all the EP for the fourth one is samples. Is it back there? Follow the third question. Does the 15,000 number count in regards to packaging media also? Or is it just digital sales? Both. And then a question of my own about something completely different, it's more specific to music writing and arrangement. Can you talk about how you do non-verbal core writing? Obviously in something like Decepticon, which would be Autobots, they're just singing the melody. So that's pretty straightforward. But then in something like Decepticons, you can hear consonants, you can hear syllables being pronounced by the choir. So is that nonsensical? And to the extent that it's not words, and it's not melodic, it's not just voices following the melodic line of the orchestra. How did he come up with that? He must have, did you show up late? No, no, no. Well, we did talk about briefly how he- No, I can answer it again. Well, that one specifically, I just- Yes, I wasn't apologizing. Oh, no, no, it's okay. No, please, I was only kidding. He asked me that question. But for that one specifically, I took the choir will sing what you give them. So you always have to come up with some sort of lyrics for them to- They would make it up on the spot, but that would just be too time consuming, and you're on the clock when you're recording all these musicians. So I always give them lyrics. That one, I took the names of all the Decepticons, broke them up by syllable, jumbled them up into new words, just as a fun thing, that was kind of all it was. And we had fun with it. And that's, and we specifically laid out the lyrics in a way that sounded sort of okay. So that's a made-up language that we came up with based on the Decepticon names. The urban Decepticon names. And that's, I think the most sort of specific thing I've done with choir lyrics. A lot of times it'll just use a-oo-ee or whatever. Rarely do I give the words because I don't want it to sound too- Hans who uses the a-oo-ee or Hans and Marie uses those? Yeah, he does. I think I have that sample. It's just the vowels spoken. Yeah, yeah, yo-ee, yeah. If a choir is singing, I don't want it to sound cheesy, because that's the problem. I'd rather it be non-understandable or in something like Keanu, that key and pume movie where it's just supposed to be so ridiculous and over the top. I think we did give them some, oh no, we gave them Latin. I wrote lyrics, or I don't know if anybody even knows what that movie is, but it's about a cat and key and pume. I wrote, oh, I wish I should have brought them. It's probably my phone somewhere. Something about you are the most beautiful cat in the world and a bunch of stupid things like that. And I had a Latin translator translate them into Latin and that was what the choir was singing. Is that more difficult, because I know John Williams did something in Swahili, who were honest about it, but the pull-out, which was what they were just saying. Did you think about doing something like that with this, or? For what, transformers? It all depends on the project. That, for the first transformers I had that idea, say let's use the Decepticon names, but I mean we could have just used them straight up, but that would have sounded stupid. Megatron. Oh my God. So we jumbled them up and the Keanu thing, I just thought, what if we did Latin's talking, singing about how the cat is so amazing, and so it just ideas come up. And a lot of the other scores, like the island that my name is Lincoln track, they're not really singing anything. We just came up with a nice melodic sounding lyrics, I guess you call them. They are lyrics, they're singing something, but that particular one doesn't mean anything. I try to put, I want it to sound good without sounding kind of, I like the fact that a lot of fans have said, what are they saying? I kind of like that they don't know. Exactly, you can't translate it to, this cat is amazing. Yeah, I hope that answers your question. Yes, thanks and sorry for asking something like that. No, no, please, I was always kidding, I felt bad as soon as I made fun. So did you want to become a composer when you were young and what got you into them, what did you do? I did not really think about it when I was young. I did have the John Williams, the Star Wars album. My mom has a picture of me with headphones on conducting when I was like seven or eight or something, that was pretty funny. But I was always into film music and films all my life. And then I, junior high elementary school, I started playing clarinet. So I had music more as a hobby. And I went to college for, with the intention of getting a degree in computer science, so no music at all. But about a year in, I thought, oh, this is not for me. I just wasn't into it at all. So I switched to a music major because, again, I kept it as a hobby for that long. I had keyboards and stuff that I don't want to mess around with my own compositions, but I never intended to do this for a living. And when I switched to music major, I thought, oh, maybe I'll work as a recording engineer or something like that. Somewhere in the studios or doing something, I don't know, I didn't know what I was gonna do. I did for a while some backing tracks for these karaoke places where you could go and record yourself singing little mermaid songs. So I would, and that was a good learning experience. I actually had to pick a part and orchestrate and recreate these Alan Minkin things on my little synthesizers. And, but yeah, when I started looking for a job in studios, I was calling around at various studios and I saw Hans Zimmer, Media Ventures, what is this place? And I knew Hans Zimmer obviously for years. I was a fan. So I called and started as an intern there. You're hired, doesn't work that way this morning. Can I come home, Hans? You're hired. That's kind of almost how it worked. I said, do you need any help? The guy's like, yeah, come on down. But that was before he was the mega lord of all Hollywood. Touring the world right now. He was, he was a lot smaller operation than he is now. He was still obviously a big star, but right. So it was a smaller studio facility. So I got to see a lot and just kind of never left for months. Worked with Harry and yeah. Yeah, worked with Harry and even then I wasn't sure what I was going to do with myself, but I would use Harry Gregg's and William's studio when he wasn't there messing around with just writing little cues to whatever film he was working on. And that led to me actually writing cues for the films he was working on and Hans getting wind of it and going, oh yeah, when you're done with him, can you come over to my room and finish this cue and this and that? And it just sort of snowballed into whatever. To five transformers films. Well, I want to thank everyone for coming out today and thank you, Steve, for showing up and talking about your work. Yeah, we did a nice big long interview for like an hour and a half. If you want to hear more of Steve's life you can go to filmmusicmedia.com and watch Steve and I ramble more. No, me ramble. You ramble, me enjoying it and everyone else enjoying it. So yeah, I guess we'll line up on the outside and we can get the signing underway. Great, thanks everybody. I saw some other hands, so you just ask me if you got something you wanted to ask.