 All right, welcome everyone to the October 28th TSC call. I see some new faces, I see some folks who are at the TSC, you're all welcome here. There's just two things that we have to live by as we walk through this. The first one is the anti-trust policy notice, which you see currently displayed on the screen. The second one is our code of conduct, which you can find linked to in the agenda, really it just says don't be a jerk, and we can all get along just fine. So with that, let's jump into the announcements. So the first announcement, Rai, did you want to talk about? Sure, I'll be super brief. The Dev Weekly newsletter goes out every Friday, and we are always looking for content. So if you have something appropriate for a developer audience and you would like to see it in the newsletter, leave a comment on the page and let me know. We'll make sure it gets in there. All right, thanks Rai. And Daniel, I think I've got a couple items on here from you. Well, first I want to thank everybody for their support over the last few weeks. I know I've spoken to many of you, so thank you. As you have probably seen, I have stepped up as the executive director for Hyperledger and also as GM of Blockchain Healthcare and Identity at the Linux Foundation. So I'm very excited about this opportunity. I've worked with many of you over the last four years, along with with Brian and the rest of the staff here. I will be conducting, I'll be organizing and conducting, putting together AMAs for the community over the next few weeks. And so that will be an opportunity for me to connect with the maintainers and the other developers and contributors in the community as well. Many of you know I've been attending these TSC calls for the last four years and hopefully, you know, can continue to do so and participate and be available. The other announcement that we made yesterday is based on some of the work that the Task Force, what we call the White Paper Task Force put together, we did launch the change the name of Hyperledger Project to Hyperledger Foundation. There is a blog on the website as well on on that change. And I think it really helps the community and the ecosystem understand that Hyperledger is more than just one project or even multiple projects that we really a community of technical projects of special interest groups, working groups, member companies really work all working towards the same goal and mission of Hyperledger. So I do encourage you to also read the Hyperledger Foundation will be putting out additional content and video explaining some of the new programs that will be putting into place. And the other thing that we're putting into place is obviously more resources to help support the community so one of the things that I'd like to announce, and he's been working in this role for a while now but we're finally making it public and the announcement is that we have promoted or I have promoted David Boswell to be senior director of community architecture. So David, I don't know if you have a couple words or something that you'd like to say that you are on. But I think it's a great opportunity for our project maintainers. Many of you have been working with David and Rye very closely over the last few months. So encourage you to do that you'll you'll see us, you know, providing more programs and services to really help, you know, achieve our mission as well. David you want to make sure that I'm really excited about the role, you know, what I'm really, you know, enjoy about being involved in an open source community is really providing support for people to do what they, you know, are wanting to do if they show up and are excited about getting involved, I want to make sure that there's, you know, a path forward for them and so, you know, really interested to hear what the TSC is wanting to do, and how I can support and just, you know, how do we go out there and make the community, you know, healthy and vibrant and allow people to do what it is they want to do when they show up so excited about being in the new role and here to help support and yeah, looking forward to being part of those conversations with the TSC and others about what we can do going forward for the rest of this year and next year to, you know, make the community, everything that it can be. Great. Thank you, David. And just a reminder, you know, staff, myself and the rest of staff are here in service of our community including our technical steering committee so, you know, I look forward to hearing from you to make sure that we're serving your needs as well. All right, great. Well, congratulations. Go out to both Daniela and to David on their new roles and we look forward to working closely together and figuring out how we can make the community better. So congratulations again. Thank you. Right. So the next topic. David, do you want to cover the maintainer orientation call? Sure. So as we were just talking about, you know, one of the ways that we can provide more support is to, you know, have more regular conversations with the maintainers so Ryan I earlier this year started having maintainer calls we've had to so far we think maybe quarterly is the right opportunity for those although we can adjust as needed. So the next quarterly maintainer orientation call is happening next, you know, next week so November 4 and we thought there were two topics that maybe would be good to discuss although these are open calls so if you as a maintainer have a question you're like hey I really want to know about X and you know this is a forum for that so please just because we have two topics on the agenda feel free to bring other topics there that you would like to discuss. But the two topics we thought were relevant were talking about the project life cycle there have been some changes recently that the TSE has made so how do we help you know distribute that information out to the projects. And we see the people have questions about this just yesterday on the TSE list you we sent a question about hey I'm a lab and how do I become a project so it seems like people in the community could you know use this information and have a conversation about it so we can get to talk about the project life cycle and sorry about my dog barking and want to talk about what the maintainer summit could look like next year we haven't met in a while and it's time so come to the call and we will have discussions about what you'd like to see in the summit. Thanks David. Wouldn't be a call without a dog barking I think right at TSE call so no worries. All right so with that are there any other announcements that anyone has specifically they'd like to bring up at this point. So this is all no I think, and I apologize if I missed it but Daniela mentioned that the hyperlegia name change from project to foundation. We also published a new charter. I don't know if this has been announced but you know it's been an ongoing point of discussion that the charter was talking about, we are need developing like one blockchain framework. And now, you know it's official we're not just doing one framework. And in fact it's the scope is somewhat extended beyond just blockchain. So, it's talking about multi party systems. So, I just wanted to, and again, if it's been brought up before, I apologize but don't remember that I've been mentioned so. That's great. Thanks for that I think that beyond that Daniel also mentioned the white paper out there as well that was worked on by the task force that TSE created. So, you know, have a have a read through that it also I think not mentions now the, the new name the hyperlegia foundation and. So it's great to see that some of the work that we did last year with the TSE is being now announced and out there in official capacity so. Do you also had something you want to say. I just we yesterday opened up this position to the public and it is doing what I do. And if it is of interest, or if you have a friend that is involved in into open source. We're hiring, so I will post this link in the in the TSE chat. Great. Thank you. Right. Any other announcements that people have. All right, so it sounds like there's none. So we do have some quarterly reports that came in. Part thanks for keeping me honest with the cactus one I completely skipped over it in the list so we'll we'll keep that one on there definitely for for next year around I think explorer we should probably also keep on there for the next go around as there's still people who haven't yet reviewed that I think fabric had the most reviews when I looked at it shortly before the call. But let's let's go down the call because down the list because I think there are folks on the call who are here to represent each of these so for the folks who have had the opportunity to review the explorer. Project report are there any questions that exist on that. I'll take the rezoning silence as a no questions. And the explorer team did not have any questions for us as well. So how about fabric are there any questions on the fabric report. Any questions on that one either. Okay, anyone who had the opportunity to read the cactus report any questions there I know they did have a question for us. I know it has any questions for them. So their question for us was about the one dot release that they're working on for cactus. So, I know you had replied in the comments or never applied that there are currently no requirements from the TSE for projects moving to one dot oh release. I do recall that there were some steps on the hyper ledger side for projects moving to the one dot oh so David and right I called you out on a comment just for maybe working with the cactus team on whatever the right processes are for moving a project to one dot oh so. Yep. We will do that. And thank you because I would have missed it. Okay, great. So, Peter heart. Ryan, David will work with you towards whatever needs to happen for for one dot oh. Okay Tracy, I just want to ask a clarifying question regarding the first comment that Arnold made. It wasn't clear to me what Arnold was referring to as far as the requirements sounds like it has to do with promotions marketing just want to confirm that. To admit I don't remember exactly the status we would have to check the documentation but initially we had this notion of first major release. And that that was a big deal because it was typically when we would have a major announcements by the hyper ledger organization with the, you know, blog post and so on. And later on, there was, you know, the situation become a lot more confusing because they were projects like Bezu, who didn't even like, you know, they had already won all before, they even came to hyper ledger. They didn't want to restart the numbering and so the question became okay, does it matter, which whether it's the first major or not and then along the discussion we said but wait they are two different aspects to this. You know, the major version release. And then there's the notion of whether we promote it or not. And the TSE really has no saying into what should be promote, you know, promoted by, by communication team with the hyper ledger stuff. You know, to disentangle all of this. And, and so that's where I think we are so as a result, I don't think that there is any actual requirements that projects needs to fulfill to go through this, you know, major first major release because it's it's kind of like a project. You know, bound the concept at this point. That's my recollection of where we stand but Yeah, I think you're right there on. Yeah, no you have your hand up. Yeah. This wasn't about cactus this was when we're done talking to cactus and whatnot. Okay. Any other, any other comments questions about cactus heart. Yeah, I'll just say to answer Jim's question Arno is exactly right to summarize we used to have to require a TSE approval for a one data release. I see. Gotcha. Thanks. Thanks for that. Okay, any other comments on cactus before we let Dano have the floor. All right Dano I think it's yours. So I did paint until you said he's going to have the caliper report this week it's probably going to be up next week at this point obviously. But when it comes to on time or late, quarterly reports of people prefer a ping the week before the previously filed it, or a ping once it's late, probably process question for the teams to consider. And they thought some, whether they'd like, if you're someone who has filed a report before a ping the week before it's due or only ping after it's late. So, I will point out that I do have the calendar reminders set for one week before it's due. So there are two emails that go to the project list. Before they're due. So, okay, right. But what I did for exploring caliper and cactus is I spent sent a personalized email to person who probably last. And I think that's that's the questions. How do we want to escalate is the automatic reminder to not, or how much sooner with people for the personalized attention. That's a basic question. When you say ping demo, did you mean sending email or hang on. Direct personal email. Yeah. Gotcha. I think that would be really helpful. Before this can be, if this can be automated so it doesn't fall on someone someone like rice shoulder all the time. Okay, I think the automated reminder one week out is good. And then a personal one to one email maybe when it's when it's past two. Okay. Anyone else. All right, you know, let's get on with continue to directly after their late. The last sounds good. Jim, do you still have a question or just your hands still raised. Yeah, sorry. I'll, I think beforehand will be helpful was my my vote. Sorry. Oh, beforehand was your vote. Yeah. An automated message goes out beforehand however, so right. I will ping you beforehand. All right. David Boswell. Thank you for your comment in general about the reports, not about one in particular, although I did see that Explorer did reference at this time. Sometimes when a report comes in, you see something along the lines of it would be great if we had more contributors or we could use some help with more contributors. When that happens, is there anything that we want to do. I mean, as far as the Explorer report goes, I did reach out to the person who filed it and just mentioned that we had started these contribution campaigns recently and we could support with a similar campaign if they were interested, but I just did want to note that sometimes those do show up in reports and is that something that we staff and or that we as TSC, you know, how do we want to respond to those when they come up. Is there support we want to offer basically. Yeah, I think we've had this discussion. Many times in the past, but I am open to hearing new ideas, new thoughts on responding to that I do definitely like David the direction with the can contribution campaigns that you've been working on with different labs and different projects to help try and get people to come in but if there's other ideas slash suggestions that people might have on ways and getting more attention to projects slash contributors to those projects happy to discuss that. I don't see any additional hands going up. Maybe we can have that conversation at some point when people have had a chance to think about that again. But yeah I think in the meantime David, I do like the contribution campaigns. And we can bring this up in the maintainers column next week to and ask people hey if you put that in your report what sort of help are you wanting maybe maybe turn it around and ask people who are, you know, flagging those in the reports what what sort of help they could use. Yeah, for sure. Is there anybody from the Explorer team who has a comment I'm going to be answering that question. It looks like maybe we don't have representation then. So yeah let's, let's bring that up then in the maintainers call David. All right. So next on the list here is. I'm going to put in their report. Thank you. Andrea for bringing that to our attention a week early. So we will definitely keep this on for next week, and make sure that everybody has had a chance to review and asking questions for that as well. But let's move into the discussion topics. So first on the list here, a TSC election retrospective so every year after the TSC election we kind of do a retrospective to see things that went well things that could be improved. As we think about what this might look like again next year. So right if you wouldn't mind. Sure. So, I will, the very short version is that it went a lot better than previous years. Mostly around because we had good tooling, better tooling, the open vote platform gives us a lot of information that the previous platform didn't. And using insights made getting the initial contributor list, much easier. I know that David Boswell spent quite a bit of time getting the email addresses into the tool that we were using, which is name escaping right now. And the other thing which I really think helped was that the open vote tool sends a reminder email every three days if you haven't voted. So if you look at this graph of from the election start to when the votes happened. It's every 72 hours, you know we got more votes. So I thought that was that was pretty cool and pretty nice. Things that didn't go so well. We had pretty low participation. I don't have the number off top my head, but it was lower than every other year by percentage. There aren't a lot of not much space to add new voices to the TSC. Although we had record turnover and new members. There's not a lot of space there. And I think that was your comments so Tracy if you wanted to speak to that. So yeah no I think that you know obviously we've got 15 spaces in the TSC. We had four new folks join us this year and we'll talk to them and find out more about them as we go through. You know that's a that's less than a third right of new new voices that we're hearing as we come into the into this year's TSC. I just you know think that there's a question around if there's anything that we want to do about that. And right I think the numbers were out of the 976 emails that got delivered. 23% of the folks actually voted on this year's election. And, you know, obviously 30% of the people I guess I'm looking at the numbers 30% of the people actually clicked on the link to vote but only 23% of those voted. I'm sorry 23% of the total voted. And so you know I think that you know people saw the election email they, you know, the number of people who opened it was 59% the number of people who actually clicked on the link was 30% and then the number of people who voted was 23%. So I think that, you know, there's still some work to do as far as getting people who have contributed interested in participating in the vote. And so I'd really love to hear kind of from the TSC members and other folks, you know, are there things that we think we can do better in the future or differently in the future. Thanks. And I agree. And one of the interesting things to me was if I looked at, there are a lot of people who opened the email and went to the thing there were obviously there were 70 people who went to the vote page who didn't vote. There were people who opened the email each time and didn't, I didn't click the link and we had 48 people or I'm sorry 37 people opt out from future communications so they didn't want to hear from us. So, heart. Yeah, I was just going to say that in terms of people like starting the voting process and not finishing. There was a little, you know, when I did it, I had to have like multiple tabs open right. Because the voting site didn't have any of the bio information or anything like that on it right. So if I'm a voter and I don't know everyone I have to, you know, constantly look back and forth I have to find the TSC election website, which has the people's information on it. And I have to pull that up and I have to look through everything right. I had that in a simple place, like with, if we could somehow embed that election that might be a lot. Sorry, we could somehow embed that in the election so people didn't have to to navigate between a lot of different sites that might help bridge the 23 to 30% gap. That's an excellent observation. And I had that option available to add a bunch of HTML to the email, and I didn't do it. So next year, I, you're right. I don't think I can link the people's names directly to their nominating statement. But it's certainly pretty easy to put a link in the email that goes out to help direct people. Yeah, thanks. Also, feedback on the 70 that didn't seem to finish the voting for my team. We had a constant struggle from multiple people that said, Do I have to fill in all 25 slots before I submit. A lot of them didn't understand you can stop at any point. So some of them. I don't know about our teams, but I bet some people just just thought that's too daunting, and just didn't didn't follow through and stop mid way. So a simple, simple banner that says you don't have to pull in all 25, that would have helped. Okay, thank you. I will make it out of that. I think a room was next. Okay. So, I had similar comment on about, I basically had all the 29 options and I didn't hear similar feedback from some of my team members, when they wanted to vote. They were asking me a, you said it's 15, but here I see 29. Right. So, apart from that, I have a couple of other comments to add here. I think we need some, I know this discussion also happened on the Hyperlegit ASC chart room, where we wanted to identify what what is the engagement level of those contributors. So, if not to detail level to specific project, we should rather just identify if they contributed in recent times, are they continuously engaged with Hyperlegit or is it just one time activity that they did. That might help us in understanding some aspects. Another thing that I wanted to just add on to it is OPA vote was also used by Stack Overflow recently in their community, one of their community position elections. So they had three positions open. So they, so what they did was they, within their portal Stack Overflow, they had this voting option on the right as soon as you visit that site for any questions or anything. It pops up and it says, hey, here is an opportunity for you to vote and select somebody from the community. Even though there were many people on the left side, it only asked me for two to three of them, and I did not have to relocate myself to any other URL. It was all through within the same portal, and it was all backed up through the OPA vote. So I see an opportunity for us to continue improving on that aspect. Maybe we redirect everyone to LFX Insights, which might be interesting to people. We look around for a way where they can have their Hyperlegit account or the Linux Foundation account profile to vote and then upcoming tier selection. I like that feature in Stack Overflow. That's all. Okay, thank you. I think Dana was next. Yeah, so I have two sub points. Arum made most of one of my points. But as far as total votes cast, this is the second highest. It's the lowest percentage wise, but that's because we had a lot of people. It was 235 for the first vote, which was the most votes cast ever, and 204 and 184 and now 227. So total people voting. And that feeds into the point that Arum made is, I think we need to get some consideration to the commitment level of some of the people who are qualified to vote. All it takes is one PR. And if you come into like, say, basic and you don't like the way that particular RPC is handling something and you want an extra option that you can push a PR to do that, you're eligible to vote. Are we saying the people who do a casual scratch my edge type commit are then obligated to vote in the hyperledger election and we're obligated to bring them in. Now I think we need to have some, you know, if it's the maintainers and the regular committers that aren't voting, yes, that's a big problem. But, you know, I don't see the problem of the casual contributors, not voting when they're entitled to. Okay. That's a good point. Come wash. So, I think that election that OPPO vote UI screen should be simplified like instead of listing all the names if you have only people to select only 15. For example, another thing like maybe there should be proper clarification like what is this election because maybe the volunteer is there but the odorically not clarified what they are whom they are choosing and what the purpose. So, I think this two things could be considered next time, because like 60% open the election mail but only 23% voted. That could be maybe 50% or 60% at all. Okay. Thanks. Yeah, I wanted to just kind of follow up on what Daniel was talking about because I wanted to say something a bit similar in the sense that I don't think we should stress out so much about so many people not voting. If anything you could see this as a positive because if people thought something is going really bad here, they would actually step up and want to have a say. So, maybe the fact that there are so many people voting is rather a good sign that I'll share with you, you know, of a simple and they thought but you know, I'm a paragliding pilot and part of an association within the US of, you know, related to this and we have an election every year of directors and I barely ever vote. Because I'm happy with what they do. I'm thankful for people who have volunteered to do this job. And I, I hope the same is true here. So, very well could be. Thanks, Arno. I just wanted to agree with Arno and Dano I think the barrier, you know, as long as we make the barriers easy and we make voting like seamless and not time confusing. Not not time consuming. Then, then I don't know that, you know, that we should necessarily worry too much about the voting percentage. That being said, I do think there are some things we can do that, you know, we can make the voting process faster and more streamlined. But as Arno pointed out, I think if the maintainers and the core contributors are our contribute our voting that I think we're in good shape and it's it's less important if somebody who has like one commit. And is sort of, you know, they did a drive by committed and they disappeared. Well, that's probably a little less important. Yeah, so it sounds like, you know, more than anything, it's just a matter of making sure that the ballots are clear, making sure that there's links to the information on the individuals that they're voting for and maybe also a note that, you know, people can just vote for one person if that's all they really care about right. So it sounds like just more information is what I have heard from the discussion. And so I think that's a good feedback for for rye and David as they move forward towards next year. Any other thoughts before we move on to the next topic. No, okay. So, Arun, I did see in the TSC chat, the comment about maybe the process for the new members. So, as you've been seeing, we go through the agenda if you have comments, questions, anything that you would like to raise you raise your hand and you'll be called on as we go through. There's also, you know, responsibilities every week for reviewing the project reports and checking yourself off there, and making sure that, you know, as things come through, you review those and ask any questions that you might feel are relevant to ensuring that the everything is well understood about what's happening in the project. But I guess with that I want to make sure that we also give our four new members an opportunity to introduce themselves and maybe talk about. Introduce yourself for now we'll talk about as a as a whole kind of the goals and objectives that we want for the TSC. So, Artem, I think we'll start with you alphabetically come first. Hi, so I'm Alton Barger and I used to work for IBM for 12 years and I recently quit to start my new journey. Basically, I drink a startup in a blockchain area, and I've been involved in the Hyperledger Fabric since 2016 basically from the early beginning, and I'm really honoured to join the TCA community. So we can forward to working with every one of you. All right, great. Thanks, Artem. Peter, I see your hands going up because you're about ready to catch a train. You want to introduce yourself quickly? Peter, you're on mute. Sorry. I lost the window. I was in trouble on meeting myself. So yes, I would just want to say I got a catch the train so I'm going to introduce myself super quick. I'm Peter, I'm a technology architecture center. And I'm really glad to be on TSC. I'm the maintainer, one of the maintainers of Hyperledger Cactus. And I've been working on blockchain or related technologies for the past two and a half years. And before that I used to be a traditional kind of architect slash database guy. So that was always my passion, storing data and distributed lectures kind of feed into that just in a different way. And yeah, I'm looking forward to working with everyone thanks for having me. Thanks, Peter. Jim, did you want to go next? Oh, sure. Thanks, Tracy. Jim Zhang. I've been involved in Hyperledger for a long time, I guess since it's beginning as part of the maintainer team for fabric, but now I'm a retired maintainer for fabric. Since leaving IBM for Clyde, I've been involved in enterprise Ethereum and quarter in those communities. So now I've covered all three top protocols in the enterprise space so really interested in seeing how I can help with with growing the community. I'm also part of the hyperledger far fly, one of the maintainers for fabric support of far fly. I'm looking forward to working with everyone. Thanks, Jim. Yeah, hello. Yeah, so I'm Kamlesh and I'm currently CEO of one blockchain startup based in India. And I started my blockchain career with hyperledgers and when I work with the IBM team and IBM India team actually on the time. And working with hyperledger fabric from starting 0.6 and IBM blockchain on the time and quite active in the community since then. And I also co-lead the hyper in the chapter with Arun. And as a company perspective we do lots of product and product development for the financial services supply chain identity management use cases so using many hyperledger projects in the web client deliveries. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. And welcome to all of our new members, as well as our returning members and, you know, congratulations Dano for being elected to vice chair role. And I think the last item on our agenda is really just to talk about kind of the goals and objectives for what we want to accomplish this, this TSE year. So, this is really an open space I think if we have some common goals and common objectives that will help us as we think about kind of the agendas for our meetings think about the sorts of things that we want to cover and and work through. So, this is really an open area for people to bring up their thoughts. So, yeah, I'll probably bring up this point of bringing in some of some additional discussions that are currently ongoing or probably that are stagnant or dormant for now. I know there were working groups which were which used to be very active earlier and maybe because the people who let those working groups got occupied on some other activities and the transition did not happen to others folks within the working group so they went into dormant state right and also this was one of the feedback that are common opinion that many of the folks on the members summit also had in terms of hey I need some information on getting started with this project. There are now too many projects within hyper ledger I don't know how to choose them if there were some documentation on that I it would help me get started. So what they're looking into is a collection of resources which would tell them hey this is the use case and this is the project that they used and this is how they built it. I know some of them could be crucial for for different organizations they could it could be proprietary, but I believe restarting these common working groups could keep it going on and many of these working groups in the past have produced really great documents and supplementary educational information that could be used. So yeah, I would like to see more of such things happening and maybe if it requires us to invite those working group members to TSE calls to revive them, we should probably do that. Okay. Other thoughts and goals or objectives that we want for the TSE. Jim. Thanks Tracy. One of my source of confusion with high pleasure is the wealth of technologies that's available. On one hand it's it's very powerful to have these things. On the other hand, for a newcomer it's pretty difficult to figure out how how these different pieces fit in. I think this goes to what Aaron was saying earlier. One of the things we, I was also active in the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance. One of the things that the Alliance that was that I think was pretty effective was sponsoring a project that ties together all these pieces and show this is how you build a comprehensive solution using the point features with each project. This is how you talk to a supply chain with fabric, this is how you run the token with the Ethereum, and this is how you do a DVP by using cactus, exchanging those tokens and trades atomically. And this is how you use Indy for the DID, like we never have something that demonstrate this is, you know, this is how these things fit together. So that's from my point of view I this may well have been discussed earlier. But that's, that's something that's on top of my mind. It's you, Sean, Sean, I saw you come off mute but I cannot hear you I don't know if it's me or you, you automatically gain is. Yeah, you sound better. So we talked about helping new users. But there's also a case we made to attracting new new projects and new new developers. There's a big world out there with blockchain, which are doing a lot of very interesting things. And not all of them are choosing hyperledger. It's a question of how do we attract more projects. And how do we make hyperledger a great place to host your, your, your blockchain project. Yeah, I, I agree, Sean, I think that's a very good point. And one of the things that I think is top of my mind as well so I would love to, as we continue this conversation right think about things that will help us in that regard. Great. Yeah. First of all, I really like Jim and John suggestions. Oh, sound great. The one item that is top of mind for me is diversity and inclusion and just encouraging, you know, and emphasizing those topics throughout the TSC. I know we start with the inclusive metric, but also, you know, if there are ways for us to advocate for or be a part of, you know, different diversity and inclusion efforts, I think that would be great too to keep throughout the year. Okay. Thanks, Grace. Bobby. Hi, I would like an initiative, moving forward to continue with the breaking the silos where you're cross projects over between working groups and the projects like we did with Firefly and the social impact with that project the giving chain. I think more of that where the projects and the special interest groups actually get together to create some stuff and then explain it to the community. That would help also with Jim's suggestion about how to showcase all of the wonderful things we're doing. Okay. Thanks, Bobby. Arnau. Yes, so yesterday during the Hyperledger member summit that was serving as facilitator of one of the breakout session on threats. So, you know, the previous member summit for those who don't know, we went through a whole SWAT exercise. And this time we went back to some of the outcome and try to focus on what we might be able to do about some of the things that came up. And so I don't want to jump the gun that Daniela might feel like a wise even talking about this because, you know, there's probably a whole plan on how to process the outcome of what we did yesterday but I wanted to share at least some of this because I thought it was interesting and relevant to the question that is being raised now. In particular, one item that had been identified was, you know, we have had this, this, the garden, you know, we call it the greenhouse, and it's been said multiple times that greenhouse you also need to train and prune. And so one of the questions that was raised was, well, how do we gracefully prune the garden. And I raised that question during the session yesterday and it was, there was some interesting suggestion in terms of, you know, looking, turning to the community actually to get input as to, you know, what is really relevant. What is that we should do more and what we should do less maybe. And so I don't know how this translates. I know it's a touchy issue that TSC historically has kind of been shy about, you know, trying to buy that bullet because it's very quickly a political and then, and, you know, it's easier to bring in new projects and so on and then to turn some off. But I thought I should bring that up. There was another one. I don't know if this one would really fall into the TSC scope or say but which I had to do with, you know, some of the challenges that people are experiencing setting up blockchain networks, not so much from a technical point of view but more from an technical point of view. And, you know, it was shared that one of the challenges that people experience today is, they have to answer the very same questions from, you know, potential customers and business networks regarding security, to see, you know, how does that relate to GDPR and the question that was raised is, would then it would be valuable for for the, if the hyperledger could develop answers to those questions and even like standards questions that could be submitted because often customers, it has been done in other areas. So this concept is not new is kind of like setting up questions and answers that could be shared with customers that would help getting everybody on the same page. So, I just wanted to bring those as possible items we might consider working on. Good items, and obviously relevant to a number of people in the community member companies, as well as other folks in the community. So thank you for that. Nathan. And we'll risk abusing the greenhouse analogy here. And I think often we spend a lot of time pruning the weeds and looking at the problems that we have in our greenhouse. I think we need to spend some time as the TSC smelling the flowers and appreciating the plants that we have. And I think it would be good to give all the projects an opportunity to share the parts of their project that are the best things that they're doing, or the most interesting technical challenges that they're solving. For the sake of creating some content that we can use to help recruit new developers, and to help show the value that comes by collaborating cross project at hyperledger. So just some on the best parts of our projects, it will help us to understand and motivate each other to get more involved. And I'm hoping that we can find some ways to do that beyond just the project reports that we've been doing all along. Sounds like a good idea. Hey, thanks. I was going to talk about sort of fragmentation and cross project collaboration but I think Nathan and Arno basically did an excellent job of summarizing what I wanted to say. I think one thing we could address about this and feel free to say that this is is crazy and not a good idea. But I think it would be great if we had some incentive. You know, or just some way for people to see other things. So I was, what I was going to propose is what if we had some, I don't know what to call it, but some program where we asked TSC members to go to at least one project meeting for which they are not a contributor a month. So hopefully this isn't too much of a burden on the TSC. But if everybody at the TSC goes to say, you know, a project meeting that they're not affiliated with at all. You know, they might learn something other people might learn something and this might sort of increase the collaboration across the TSC. So I was hoping we could get the LF staff to throw in like a carrot where they would treat like the TSC members that did this over some period of time to like dinner or drinks or something like that. All right, so I think I was supposed to say create that's crazy. And that's another good idea. Is that right? No, I think it makes sense. And we have talked about that previously in the calls before so Dano, I think you'll be the last person to comment on this before the meeting is going to come to a close so Dano. So I really like the idea on I think it solves two problems it gets the TSC aware of the other projects, and it builds a bridge between the other projects that don't regularly attend to TSC and the TSC. You know, we kind of become liaisons back and forth that things need to be shared from the project we can become aware of it if the TSC needs to share information to a project and they don't attend this meeting. There is another channel to do that if we have regular TSC guests in these calls and typically sit there. So I really, really like this idea and I would encourage you know I don't think we should do it by assignment. But you know the incentives I think are going to be a great way to get people to do it. I think you know some of this probably lend itself to what Nathan said as well right, which is how do we bring kind of the knowledge of what the interesting things are that are going on in the projects back to the TSC and can smell the roses if you will. So, you know, I think this has been a good discussion and I want to continue this discussion I've taken some notes and I'll probably add them to our meeting minutes, because I do want to make sure that we're capturing these ideas and moving forward with them. There are two other things that did show up on the agenda that we are not covering this week, but I do want you guys to take the opportunity to comment on the issue and the pull request. There's a pull request for a new project proposal that is looking to come in. It is the blockchain automation framework, which is a lab. So please feel free to comment on that proposal will have those folks come in and provide a presentation next week, and then there's also a task force that has been proposed that early this morning, my time. So, you know, let's take a look at that issue as well. Hart, you have a comment. Yeah, just a quick question. Do you want us to comment directly on the PR. Yes, please. Perfect. Thanks. Yeah. And like I said, we'll have the team come in and present kind of the project next week to be able to give you an insight into exactly what it is and answer additional questions that you might have that maybe don't lend themselves so well to the back and a quick discussion that we'd have in the PR, but yes, definitely have a look at both the PR and the hyperledger hip repository and then the issue that showed up in the TSC for the decision log and the task force. All right, any final comments in the last minute that people have. Not then. Yeah, Nathan, go ahead. Thanks Tracy for stepping up to be the chair of the TSC for this year and Dano for volunteering for that service that we're glad to have you as the new chair. Thanks Nathan. I appreciate that. And, you know, I appreciate the conversation too. Right. I think this has been a really good start for the TSC and the conversation and the contributions that people are having so I look forward to continuing our conversations and we will talk again next week.