 Welcome back, this is our second of four NDSU extension horse management webinars for the spring of 2022. And so we're glad you came back. We are going to get going today. We're going to be talking about geriatric horse and full care. And so before we move there. My name is Mary Keena. I'm the livestock environmental management specialist at NDSU. And I have today, our speakers are our very own team. And so today we have Paige Brumman, who is the NDSU extension agent in Ward County and Rachel Walsh, who's the NDSU extension agent in McHenry County. And so Paige and Rachel today are going to be talking about geriatric horse and full care. So I'm going to turn it over to them. And if you have questions, please put them in the chat and I will be managing that for the afternoon. Good morning, everyone. So I was able to to get the topic of geriatric or senior horse care. And it's usually something near and dear to everyone's hearts because everyone's had that special horse in their life that they want to keep around as long as possible. Currently, this is my husband's horse. His name is Bill. He has been my, the one that I've been taking care of in that kind of senior geriatric range right now. He's 19. So he's just getting in there. But how do we define kind of a senior geriatric horse? Well, of course, by age, that would be, that would be one way. But sometimes age is just a number, right? Because we've got those horses that are old enough to be in that kind of age range, but don't act like they're there. So another way is, is talking about, unfortunately, the decline of the physiological function. So when you see that horse is having issues with arthritis or maybe losing some of its muscle mass or, you know, becoming kind of a hard keeper. That might be one of those, those declines that we're seeing in our senior horses. The other way to think of it as, is it kind of reflects on an age group or a population that you may have. So as your older horse is getting older, and maybe your herd is getting younger, he might be the, the aged one in your group. So those, those are all things to kind of take into consideration when you have that older horse, because it is important to consider these things as you go forward, as you're caring for these horses. And it looks like I have an accidental slide in there. So our senior horses, a lot of the senior signs of aging that we're seeing. A lot of times we're going to see those dental issues right away, because we're going to notice them dropping feed or having some trouble getting, getting things chewed. A lot of those older horses are going to have those teeth worn down or maybe some dental issues maybe they're losing some teeth that they've had normally in other places. Also, we're going to see some, some different things that, that contribute to body condition score or, or the way they look. A lot of our hind gut loses some of that ability to ferment fiber, which is an important part of our diet for these older horses. The small intestine loses some of those functions to absorb those, those in nutrients that we're trying to get into their body. So older horses are also prone to Cushing syndrome or cancer. And this is something that you want to work with your veterinarian or your local health profession or horse health professional on as well. Like I said, the loss of mobility. So if they have some arthritis, those are going to be some issues to, to address as well. And then loss of body condition score. So one of the, one of the major features as we talk about some of the nutrition things going forward here. A lot of our older horses are going to be fed differently than our middle aged or younger horses are. So we want to make sure we take that into consideration as we get, get up there in age. The total diet for, for an aged horse for a senior geriatric horse is going to depend on their condition. But most of the time the hang grain combined in a dry matter basis should contain between 12 to 16% of a high quality protein. And the reason we're talking about high quality proteins is because we talked about just a little bit ago that that hind it fermentation kind of loses some ability also that that small intestine loses some ability to absorb some things. So having a higher quality protein or higher quality fiber is going to increase the ability of that horse to take in the proteins and that fiber to make sure that they have that healthy basis for their diet. They also lose the ability to maybe pick up some of the phosphorus and calcium that that are normally in feeds but maybe aren't able to absorb as easily so having having a little bit more of that or having the proper amount of that is important. It looks like my, my decimal point is off on the phosphorus it's supposed to be 0.3 to 0.4% and then 0.6 to 0.8% of calcium. We want to make sure that they have enough vitamins and minerals. If it's not available in the feed source then we want to make sure that it's it's there in a concentrate, possibly fed in a feed or as free choice. So this is where I'm going to talk about kind of body condition score and how that means the differences in feeding. The pictures here is something that I picked up from Kentucky equine research and if you guys haven't been to their website it's fantastic they have some great information there on feeding all age ranges of animals, horse animals. They are the leading in the United States for for horse nutrition. So I would highly recommend that website to just vote anybody because that's where a lot of the experts get their information. But if you're looking at a body condition score. And that's kind of where Bill is if you saw that first picture he's he's about five and a half or six on body condition score. And that would be from top to bottom five six seven in that picture. You do want to feed one and a half to 2% of their body weight in dry matter per day. That is an important amount there so that's going to be just about every horse. You want to have a good quality grass or alfalfa mix hay. So that's going to be where our main fiber source comes from. So basically this body condition score doesn't necessarily need grain but if you do give some grain to this, this body condition score group, you're going to want to restrict the starches and sugars, and then make sure there's a little bit more added fat. And that goes along with some of the issues in the hindgut. And if there's a lot of starches and sugars that can contribute to issues like laminitis or colic. So that's important. The fact for colic, it's important to make sure that it's kind of restricted in that area for our age horses. Now if you get into a body condition of less than four. So you're looking at the picture on the, on the right side of the screen here. The top one would be a body condition of three, and the bottom one a body condition of four. You're still looking at feeding one and a half to 2% of that body matter, or body weight in dry matter per day. Now the, the difference between that five and a five to seven and the below four is we really want to look at a good to excellent quality of grass hay or fiber with that or alfalfa mix hay. And you get into grains because this, this body condition score is going to need some grain. You're looking at a 12% fiber composition of that concentrate or grain that you're giving between 12 to 16% crude protein, four to 6% fat, and then make sure to feed that concentrate amount anywhere in between that half to 1% of the body weight, and also to minimize the sugars and starches as well. This is an important part, working with someone who knows nutrition. It's going to be easier for you to come up with. Maybe the concentrates that you feed these horses because it is an important part of their diet to make sure that they can either maintain, or go up in a body condition score so that they're more able to continue their life into those senior ages. So as we're talking, we did have a couple of questions last week of horses that possibly can't eat hay. So we have kind of two divisions that I broke this up into your horses that can eat hay and horses that cannot eat hay and kind of what maybe those those areas would look like. So horses still can eat hay. You want to use a higher fat. This is for for concentrate or an added, added concentrate to the diet. So besides the hay, you're looking at a higher fat diet, with possibly a heat processed, like an extruded or appellated feed to go along with it. You want to make sure that there is still some fiber in that feed as well. But majority of their fiber should be coming from that hay. You also want to make sure there's an adequate intake of vitamins and minerals and sometimes you can do that with your pasture group. Make sure that you get a vitamin or mineral that could be free choice with maybe horses that are out on pasture it'll say that kind of right on the label. So now if you have any horses that cannot eat hay, you're looking at a complete feed that has a highly digestible fiber in it. Fiber is super important to keep that gut moving and going and and working properly because it is important to truly have that there to make sure everything gets pushed through otherwise you end up with issues, including colic in there. There are quality sources that we want to that we want to look into our sources of protein, and then vitamins and minerals besides the, the fiber. If your horse can't chew well, you can make a slurry. So adding water to anything to soften it up to make sure that they can get some chewing in the mastication process or the process of chewing while salivating is part of the digestive process before it goes into the a lot of issues come around when the feed that's going through their intestines isn't totally broken down or digested properly prior to coming into the small intestine or the large intestine. So it's important to get some of that going as well. So if that means that you have to create a slurry so that it's easier for them to to kind of chew or get some saliva going in there that is important. So the horses that aren't able to eat hay you want to feed these guys, at least three times a day. That's important because I'm sure everybody's heard horses are continual eaters. Otherwise issues like, sorry, the beepings kind of issues like ulcers can can arise because they don't have food in their stomach all the time. Some good fiber sources include beet pulp, dehydrated alfalfa meal and some soy hulls, those would be some examples of extruded extruded feeds as well. So as we get into this on one of the questions that we had is chopped hay. So under a fiber column here we have chopped hay. Maybe one of the best sources of fiber, if your horse can eat that, if they're getting to the point where maybe they aren't able to eat hay as easily as as they were before you know the big chunks that are longer longer pieces chopping that hay is one option. It would help maintain that digestive efficiency if you're able to chop the hay. It's easier on their mouth, especially if they've lost some teeth or have their teeth worn down and aren't able to chew quite as well. Because there's usually a circular motion as they chew they're not able to do that as well. Getting those pieces into the half to one inch size is what we're looking for for the chopped hay. One of the things one of the questions that we had was, how do we chop the hay on a small scale. So there's a couple of options there you can you can get it into a press cube. And that's going to be in a bag form that you'll be able to find at TSE or any of your local local feed stores. Another option is buying that chopped hay in a bag at a local feed store but that gets pretty darn expensive. If you did find online there are some small bale choppers hay choppers online, but those range from anywhere to like three to $500 to over a couple thousand dollars. So that just depends on on how you want to use it or if it's, if it works out for you. I have been able to find some of those online. So the fiber sources like I said those hay cubes, some pellets or beet pulp are another option. The nice thing about all three of those is you can add water to them. It's another source of water to get in there to help reduce the chances of impactions so we don't want them to call it off of this because it's too dry. Another option that could be an issue so you want to make sure that some of these are whetted wet down the high quality proteins that we talk about. So when we talk about extruded proteins, that means that they're heat treated. They go through an extrusion process where where that that being or soybean is is what I usually go for with an extruded by product. Soybean meal is an extruded by product, which means it's heat treated as it goes through their process of getting the oils out steam rolled or flaked is another option. And then alfalfa meal and soybean meal are two of the higher quality ones that you really want to look at, because they have a great source of protein, and then they also are high in amino acids, which is important for that hindgut health. And then lastly, I just want to kind of talk about some, some overall things that we would look for in those senior geriatric courses. And one of the quotes that I came across as I was doing a little bit of research is the solid foundation of good nutrition is required to maintain our old friends, which is a very good point. And making sure that you kind of get get things going early on and have some preventative steps ahead of your horse so that you're not essentially catching up to make sure that they're there in that healthy body condition score. If you're still exercising your old friends if they're in that good body condition score even if they're not. And you want to make sure that they keep their mobility, maybe not having any issues with getting around. If you're still exercising them make sure you have that proper settle fit. Because as they lose the muscling on the top end of their bodies, they're more prone to having subtle source so making sure that settle fit is important, more comfortable for them more comfortable for you. If you have a good farrier. That is a huge one because as they get older feet problems become an issue, but if you're able to maintain their feet at a good, good place with a good farrier that's going to be, that's going to keep you ahead of a lot of things. And then making sure they have yearly exams with your veterinarian, definitely checking those dentals or their teeth every year, sometimes every six months if needed. But if they're just getting checked once a year, you and your vet should be able to work out a plan for the next six to 12 months based on their dental physical and vaccination schedule. If you're in that physical kind of slot you want to make sure that you guys are getting some regular blood work done to check organ function, and then also doing a urinalysis. So checking their urine to make sure everything's looking good there as well, because that'll tell you a lot about their liver and their kidney function as you go through the vaccinations are important, because our older horses are more prone to having infections. If they're vaccinated for a lot of things you're able to head that off in the past and pass. And then one of the things that I forgot to put on there is actually deworming, making sure that your deworming schedule is up to date, maybe doing a yearly fecal to make sure that they don't have high loads of anything, and then keeping them healthy because if you have intestinal parasites that actually causes some issue with absorption of nutrients as well. So you want to make sure that they're clear of all those things. So next I'm going to pass it off to Paige. Thanks Rachel. So I'm going to talk, we're going to switch gears here and we're going to talk about our young horse care, those younger horses that you may have in your herd or be thinking about bringing into your herd. So the things that we want to consider that are different from your typical adult management is going to be their health program, their nutrition, and then the facility requirements as well. So we're going to skip over the pregnant mare discussion and just talk immediately into the new foal. And so we're going to assume that the mare had a healthy pregnancy was maintained according to industry standards and veterinary recommendations, and that the delivery went well and was healthy. But right there in the first few hours of the foal's life, a general rule of thumb is going to be the rule of one, two, three. That foal needs to stand within an hour, needs to nurse within two hours, and it needs to pass its first manure known as meconium within three hours. And that three hour timeframe is also when that mare needs to pass the placenta. Those are kind of our general very basic rule of thumb for indicators of a foal starting off healthy. The next recommendation is going to be that if you have a new foal that you're expecting is that you have a well foal exam performed by your veterinarian 24 hours post nursing. Make sure that your veterinarian knows that you're expecting a foal knows when it's due date is so that you are able to get that appointment set up in a timely fashion. Typically, the important thing that they're going to do, along with just checking over the general health and well being of the mare and the foal, is they're going to evaluate whether that foal had passive transfer of those cholesterol antibodies from the mare. Very important that that, again, that foal nurses within two hours, that 12 hours foaling that that foal is reducing the ability to absorb those antibodies from the colostrum. So very important things to keep in mind. Some signs that you might need to schedule an earlier exam for your foal not wait for that one day or that 24 hour checkup would be if it's not nursing it failed its 123 rules. It has any signs of abdominal pain so if that foal is rolling getting up and down frequently kicking at its belly. Those are urgent care needs. If they're straining to defecate or urinate need to call your vet and any lameness as well. So let's jump into kind of the next stage of that foal's life. Nutritional needs are typically going to be met through the mayor's milk for those first couple of months so again it's very important that you are feeding that mare adequately and we're not talking about the pregnant mare care the lactating mare care today. That could be a topic for a different time, but keep that in mind that that's really essential in order to provide for that foal because they are receiving that nutrition from that mare. We're also going to assume that they that that pregnant mare was vaccinated appropriately and they received antibodies and protection from disease through that colostrum. But as you see in the picture here at about a week to two weeks of age that foal is going to start feeding and eating the mare's feet as well and that's going to help to get their digestive tract ready and mature and able to process those types of feed, even though their nutritional requirements are currently being met solely through the mare's milk. They're getting that immunity from the colostrum that we talked about earlier assuming all things went well. And it's important to note that those foals are going to be nursing multiple times an hour over 30 sometimes a day. They're ingesting a large amount of milk 12 to 20% of their body weight in that milk, and they're gaining 2 to 3% of their body weight per day. So if you think of like a typical 100 pound or so full, young foal, they're gaining 2 to 3 pounds a day. That's a heck of a weight gain. That's really impressive. So all of these things kind of need to line up right to make sure that that foal is progressing normally. Here's where the owner needs to start to get involved a little bit to make sure that they're developing correctly. And that pre-weening stage, when the foals are 2 to 6 months, there's different viewpoints out there on when to wean foals. But it seems like most are weaned at 4 to 7 months of age in this area and really across the nation. So in that pre-weening stage where they're just a couple of months old, here's some things to consider. The mare's milk isn't meeting the needs isn't as high in nutritional value starting at about 2 months of age. So that 8 to 10 week period, that foal is going to be eating again quite a bit of feed with the mare. They're going to be nibbling on the hay and the grass and any grain concentrates that you're feeding. It's important that that foal is becoming accustomed to hard feeds so that when it gets time to wean them, they're used to eating what they're going to eat post-weening. So that's something to consider too, if your horses are out on pasture and you're getting ready to wean this foal, you want to make sure that that foal is accustomed to eating whatever it's going to eat. So if you're going to be pulling it into a barn or a different corral area where they're going to be eating hay, make sure that that foal is used to eating hay while still on the mare with the dam. So here's some guidelines from the AAP, which is the American Association of Equine Practitioners. It's a really good resource for you if you're looking for specific information and details and data and numbers. Definitely a good resource. Some general rule of thumb provide a high-quality roughage, whether that's via a pasture or a hay, and provide that at free choice to your foal. Supplement with a balanced grain ration. Typically, a general rule of thumb again is about start them slow at about one pound per month of age of the foal. So if you're starting to feed them in a custom to grain at two or three months of age, you'd be wanting to feed them two to three pounds a day as a general rule of thumb. So adjust, according to that, to the desired growth that you want on the foal and the body condition score of that foal. Many of our formulated foal rations that you can buy commercially out there, those grain products, have really detailed feeding instructions. Those are balanced by nutritionists. If you're buying many of the well-known national brands of a foal or a growth formulated feed, definitely look into those amounts. Something to keep in mind is divide these rations and these feedings into multiple small meals every day. So don't just go and feed all of their grain ration at one time, divide it up into as many meals as you can, a minimum of two to three times per day more if you're able to. It's also a good idea, pre-weaning to use a creek feeder or separate, begin to separate that foal from the mare when you feed them their grain. So you're sure that the foal is getting the amount, especially if you have a group setting with multiple young horses or a mare that eats quite quickly. They're probably going to consume it before the foal is able to get their required amount in them. So keep that in mind. And then if we look at this chart on the right, it shows our requirements for growth and some of our key nutrients in our young horses. So at six months of age, we, okay, so here I want to back up a step and say, oftentimes I hear people get hung up on protein and protein is important in young developing horses. I want to keep that in mind. But you'll see here on this chart that it's listed in pounds and not in percentages. So oftentimes we see a 14 or 16% protein on our feeds, but we need to convert that into how many pounds they're actually receiving because you can feed a 14% protein feed. But if they're only getting a half a pound of that a day, they're not meeting their requirements. So we need to do the math to convert that appropriately. And then secondary, what we forget about is proteins very important, but energy is the calories that they're getting. And that's what's providing a lot of the weight gain. So sometimes we forget about the energy requirements that are necessary. If you're interested in getting really specific on nutritional details, there are all sorts of charts for different stages of growth in your horses and different levels of work. So if we're talking about young horses, this chart here, we're just talking energy protein, calcium and phosphorus at six months, 12 months and two years of life for those young horses. There are charts like this from the NSC that will provide these amounts and data that are data that is required for each individual stage, life stage of the horse. Whether you have an old horse, young horse, middle-aged horse that's being in light work or in heavy work, all of their nutritional needs are different. So let's go back to that weaning stage. Once your horse is weaned, usually around that six months of age or so, we want to provide an even steady growth. So oftentimes this is going to require a minimum of two to three percent of body weight and that high quality forage. And again, whether that's a high quality pasture or supplemented with some high quality grains as well. Adding that commercial grain supplement in there that's formulated toward growing horses is important so that we have our balance of our minerals and our vitamins along with our energy and our protein and our fat. Follow those label instructions but start slowly. So even if you want to work up to six or eight pounds of commercial feed a day, concentrated feed, you don't want to start with that all at once. You want to start in small amounts like we talked about earlier. Make sure also that you're having clean water and providing adequate exercise as well. Okay Paige, I'm going to pause you for just one second. There's a little confusion. So if you want to go back two slides on your charts, there's just a bit of confusion on how to read that chart that you have there on the right. And so the question is, so at six months, we're feeding two pounds at 24 months for feeding greater than five pounds. So the age of the horse is the, that column is where I think there might be some confusion. That is the amount of weight that they're gaining per day. So at six months on like approximately a 470 pound full, they're gaining approximately two pounds a day. And then in the columns to the right that would be the requirement so they would need 15 and a half megacals per day and energy. They need at least one and a half pounds of protein per day. 29 grams of calcium and 22 grams of phosphorus. So that's where, yeah, the confusion is the two pounds per day at the six months that's their approximate weight gain. That's going to vary depending upon your breed, how much you're feeding them, what your goals are. And I oftentimes think that it's really beneficial to work with a equine nutritionist to get some of these things established because there really isn't a one size fits all feeding program for every single horse because we have different goals for them. They're different breeds, they're growing at different rates. They're definitely beneficial to work with somebody who can talk with you about your specific program to design something custom for you. What we're talking about here is just kind of general rules of thumb. Thank you. Yeah, no problem. All right, so then let's after we get to the weaning stage point or the weaning stage point let's move into our yearling and our two year old growth year. Again, we want to maintain that even steady growth and we'll talk about why in a second here. During this timeframe, some horses are going to reach up to 90% of their full size. Some are slower maturing and aren't going to grow that quickly but many of them do you know you can have a two year old that looks pretty mature for their age even though horses we know continue to grow through their five and six year old year. It does slow down after their two year old year a little bit. A moderate growth goal is typically ideal for most there's some operations that might have a higher level of growth required. But a moderate growth goals going to keep that horse at that body condition score around five. The problem with rapid growth and that's if we were pouring the feed to them excessively is that we can have some negative conditions pop up so we can see limb deformities. We can see epiphycitis contracted tendons and osteocondrosis or OCD some people refer to them. So those are issues occasionally with rapid growth and often we see them in a horse that maybe had some stunted growth or slow growth, and then was quickly poured the feed to them where they grew quite rapidly. So that's why we want to have even steady growth through our weaning up to two, three years of age. Slow growth is also not desired. So while we don't want to overfeed our horses and push them too fast. I also want to caution us to not say, well I'm so worried about the horse growing too fast and having limited conditions and joint issues that I'm just going to feed them poor quality grass hay and if they're a little ribby and they don't look very nice that's okay because slow growth is all right. And that's, that's a myth as well. Slow growth, where you have a poor body condition score so that under four, they look unthrifty or more prone to disease, and then they do require some catching up later on. So we want to find the balance again that even steady growth where we are maintaining that horse's body condition score around a five. All right, so we talked a little bit about the importance of nutrition. Let's jump into some of the other health care things. So here's a full vaccination chart. I know it's hard to read, but I do want to direct you again to the AEP, American Association of Equine Practitioners, recommended table and then very important that you work with your local veterinarians, because they're going to know what your herd needs, what diseases are prevalent in your areas. And a lot of this goes back to whether that pregnant mare was vaccinated or not as well that will affect the timing of the vaccines that your full receives, as well as the type and kind. So the chart here is simply our four core vaccinations as recommended from the AEP. They have many, many pages of documents for alternative and optional vaccines as well. Just know that typically if your full was from a mare that was vaccinated, around the time of weaning or pre weaning is when you're going to want to booster them. So keep that in mind. A good recommendation to is to make sure that they're boosted before weaning. So the month before you're going to wean, because then they'll have a higher level of immunity when you do provide that. Well, when they encounter that stress level of weaning, we means a stressful time. So we want them to have a high level of immunity. So for full deworming recommendations, these are also different from your adult horse. And that's because young horses are more susceptible to parasite loads. So on adult horses, oftentimes, we recommend fecal egg counts and working again with your local veterinarian, which we still recommend on polls, but almost all veterinarians that I visited with are going to recommend a standard program for falls because they do have a higher parasite load. And typically they're higher shedders as well. So the AP right now recommends deworming at two to three months of age four to six months at age, and then nine and 12 so that be four times a year. And then from a yearling to two year old year the recommendation is again around those three to four times a year. So with your veterinarian to determine which drug classes, you're going to utilize and use. And then once they become adult horses that's when we can sometimes back off on the deworming and use those fecal egg counts. We did do a presentation on deworming webinar I think last year that should still be on file as well so a lot of great information in that presentation. One of the things that we recommend as far as a pathogen load and parasites is to turn out your foals on the cleanest pastures you have available. Oftentimes we keep them confined in smaller areas and pen their lots. But if you can get them away from that pathogen load, you're going to have just a better overall experience health care experience for your foals. So keep that environment in mind. Lastly, let's talk a little bit about facility and management considerations for our young horses young horses should provide it be provided shelter, just like our older ones whether that's through barns windbreaks trees. Make sure that you're providing free choice exercise daily when possible, and especially watch those younger foals for exercise fatigue you'll see this sometimes in mayors that are overly protective. That are maybe running their foals away or running the fence line to try to chase other horses away. They can really exhaust their foals quite quickly. So if that's an issue you might need to bring them to a smaller area maybe separate them from the herd, so that that fall isn't running to exhaustion when they're just a few days old. And then also, let's talk about fencing so fencing for foals is oftentimes very different than amateur horses. Even that full as young they're not able they're learning what boundaries are they're learning about fences. Oftentimes they're going to run into them or bump into them. This is where it's nice to have a solid secure and very visible fence for your young foals and young animals. If they don't recommend wire fencing or particularly barbed wire fencing you'll see some pretty tragic wrecks with that. If you can have some solid pipe or wood paneling, especially when they're very young when they're learning what fences are like we said they will bump into them. Oftentimes they lay down next to fences and scoot underneath them. People that full a lot of horses will often have some mesh fencing to eliminate that. That's a consideration. And then if none of those are options and sometimes we hear that is that you know this is all I got and this is where it's going to live. If they're out in wire fencing try to provide as much room as possible so that they're not getting trapped or hopefully there's less of a chance that they're going to lay down next to that fence and get tangled up. Take regularly for hazards in your fence. So broken pieces, things that aren't right. Just general fence maintenance which is a good idea for all of our classes of horses but young horses especially. And then beware of gaps. So while an older mature horse isn't going to fit through a small you know vertical gap maybe next to the water tank. A young full can and we're a mature horse isn't going to slide underneath the fence if they lay down next to it a young full can and will and they do. So checking those horses frequently and just keeping those things in mind that maybe you can't prevent every single hazard that's out there but be aware of them so that you're able to mitigate as quickly as possible. When it comes to footing just like any livestock we like to keep them out of the mud. However, young bulls again more susceptible to pathogens if they're the infections through the navel. Those sorts of things you want to make sure they're on dry clean bedding as they get older again keeping them out of mud for for health reasons, and then avoiding holes in your corrals and pastures also something to think about. Keeping the pathogen the parasite load moving them to clean ground keeping them in areas that minimize that pathogen load. Also something to consider is biosecurity concerns. When you have a full and their immunity is starting to drop after that couple months of age and they're not yet boosted. That's a prime time when new diseases or new horses coming in should not be let near your full so keep that in mind if you have people coming over. Keep any new horses that you purchase or that are maybe spending the night or boarding at your place away from that all just for biosecurity reasons. I believe we also have some recorded webinars on biosecurity concerns to kind of brush up on that. So, at this time those are the main topics that we wanted to visit with you about today. Hopefully this covered some of your questions that you have. I think that Rachel received some questions previously about geriatric horses. Some of the other questions came to me about foals as well that we'd like to turn it over to you guys to ask a question of life. And so before we go there Rachel did have a question in the chat so Rachel, can you explain extruded a bit more how is it good for horses. The reason I talked about extruded materials is because it's more digestible highly digestible, and I can use soybean meal as one of the options because that's actually something we produce in this state. So we take soybeans from the field and they immediately have to go to a soybean crushing plant. The soybean crushing plant is where it's going to pull out the soybean oil and in the process it creates a byproduct called soybean meal. Soybean meal is a great byproduct that's used not only in horses but also in cattle as well so it's a really nice product that is a high quality protein, as well as heat treated and the reason it has to be heat treated or extruded is the term that they use is because it's not able to be digested any other way. So as it's going through that soybean crushing plant and the oil is being taken out. It's heated up to the point where the oil can be taken out and then the remainder of that is called soybean meal and that's the process of extrusion. Is there another. Let me know if that kind of is what you were looking for if that's okay so if if there are questions you're more than welcome to unmute and ask you can also type them in the chat. And so Sandra says I was under the impression giving chop pay was a big no could I just chop my hay like I do for cattle. So there are a couple of different ways to go through that I'm the, the reason I talked about chopped is if maybe your horse isn't able to chew as well. Then having the chop pay is makes it easier for them, because they're still able to chew and masticate and salivate then helping along with getting that digestion process going. You have to be careful about the size. Usually if you're chopping hay for cattle the size maybe a little bit larger. You don't normally see the half inch to an inch sizing cattle unless you're really looking for a highly digestible product. So if you're chopping hay for cattle it may not be the same fit for horses. You have to also be careful about what maybe some types of feed you're feeding your cattle may not be able to be fed to your horse as well. But it is an option, because it's something personally that we have come by our house is a hay, hay grinder, and they grind up the hay for our cows, but it's not to to as fine as what I would consider for the for the horses. So it's it's more important for those horses that don't necessarily aren't aren't necessarily able to chew the the long pieces of hay, and we still need to maybe get some fiber in their diet and that's what we're looking at so it's a small group is what I'm looking at. Can I interject to just one thing with some grinding hay for cattle usually the whole bale goes in there and those that do it for horses will take that outer layer off that often has the, you know, a portion that's moldy and unsuitable before they grind it for horses but ground hay is is fed very commonly in European countries and Australia to horses they call it chaff. So chaff hay. Right, and I knew I knew that and everything, but my husband. This is an argument and I and when you said chopped and I was like, dang it, he's right, you can give a chop tape and I'm like, but I would never do that for my horses and he's like, oh, we can give it to the horse. I'm like, no, no, no, you don't do that. And stuff so that's why I was kind of like, crud, maybe he is right. Well, and the other thing Sandra to consider is the storage that hey so sometimes when we chop hay for cattle to it goes in a pile and it starts to heat a little bit cattle can handle that much better than horses. So you have to make sure that the bale is for sure dry doesn't have snow or that wet portion on it get that off of the outside of the bale chop it and then store it somewhere where it can stay dry and watch for heating in that pile. Right, and that's what I tried to explain to my farmer who's never had horses and then he I have had horses and I'm like, no, no, you can't do that. You know, so I was just curious that was all thanks. Paige, I'm glad you mentioned that in kind of European and, and Australia, because that's where I found most of those small bale hay choppers was in those regions on and it's, you know, I don't know if they would be able to get over here for a good price but I think you're demanding I'm spending a couple thousand dollars to get it shipped as well. Irene says she has an old horse that falls in a small group of horses that probably need some chopped feed. Any other questions. Of course, like I said last week to if there are questions and something comes up in your mind later today is you're finishing your day. I'm going to go into myself for Rachel our page and we'll make sure if we can answer them we help find somebody that can. I think I just leave it with a really use that body condition score chart. These are general rule of thumb that work for most horses but every horse is an individual so if you have a horse that's losing weight. Let's figure out how we can address it and same for one that's maybe gaining too much weight so use that body condition score chart that's a really important indicator of your horses health. And really nice on the Kentucky equine research website they actually have a free downloadable body condition score chart which is great so if you're able to get on the computer and get one of those downloaded that's going to be a really nice option for you. Okay, with that we'll be back next week talking about hey and hey management with Kevin Sadovic and then again Rachel and page will be on then as well. So we'll see you next week.