 to have on my good friend and colleague from the yes network buck show alter he joins us now buckets Michael Don and Peter and first off how are you and your family holding up during these times? Good Mike I mean all things to sir we're we're doing good the you know thank goodness I'm married to somebody I like as well as well as really I've been a quarantine for 37 years so this isn't a whole lot of news for me. Now let's start with Cindergarde okay let's start with Cindergarde buck do you believe that a guy could throw as hard as Cindergarde from the first inning to the ninth inning and not ever have this happen because we saw Severino who we used to marvel at the fact he was clocked in 98 in the eighth inning and then he has to have Tommy John surgery is it just a function of the job or can you throw too hard? Well it's a function of the human body Mike you know did Lord get in the time continue to put your hand over your head and jerk it down violently a hundred times every fifth day okay that's why we walk around with our arms down by our sides and softball pitchers don't have the injuries very often pitching you know the only guy I had I had to fill out the book on Randy Johnson he was just a freak of nature from that he was just warming up at 90 pitches I finally figured it out but every other pitcher I've had you know I think it's a byproduct of today's system chasing velocity and chasing spin rates and chasing you know these guys got cameras on the first day of camp I mean they're competitive they're going to start torquing some pitches and you know it's just a matter of time when you when you give somebody five years you sound employed to get three years because by the time that you warranted that type of track record to get that contract you've got X amount of wear and tear on your elbow and shoulder so it this you know you're going to go through it I mean does anybody want to take a bet on how long any pitcher that signs over three years is going to what kind of return you're going to get someone made a good point one time he was leaving said it's a real good baseball decision it's a bad business decision long-term contracts on pitchers but you know I think it's a byproduct of you look at the relief pitchers and now these guys are over torquing pitches the first day of camp and these pitching coaches are fighting like heck to get some of these cameras off these guys the first week of spring training so what do we do about it live with it can we teach a different way to pitch do you go to a six man rotation I mean how do you try to get more out of these pitchers well one of the things is you're seeing more and more Tommy John injuries at an earlier age I know the travel ball and you know the parents are and the coaches are going to have to be more diligent you're seeing so many so much wear and tear on these guys and used to be multi sport players you look at bios now you don't you see a lot of them just playing baseball only the human elbow and shoulder these rest I mean one of the first things to do with pitchers is you shut them down you don't let them pick up a baseball it's not a year-round sport pitching you can't do it and there's just so many reps that guys are getting now especially hitters you're seeing a lot more injuries because you got more bad impressions pitchers you got more machines you got more uh short toss you got more uh all type of you've got to constantly torquing your body and it's just a matter of time for your body says hey I need a rest something's not right here and I just think the you look at like what's going to happen with the Yankees and a lot of teams and they come back to spring training they're going to be challenged now you've done that that was one of the the original reasons I wanted to have you on because you'd be the perfect guy to talk about this don didn't want me on that he didn't he didn't think it was genius buck I thought it was genius he didn't he thought it was just at a boy no no wait a minute okay buck you are a brilliant guest but I don't think Michael is brilliant for suggesting you is that fair you know I think you are a brilliant guest I give I give Michael an ad a boy forgetting you hey Mike you know Mike if you're constantly gonna need to be proud on the back about every occasion that's right that well that's how I am I need that I need the constant we all do we all do all right so in 95 you had a team uh there was a work stoppage you had a three week or quote longer than that with the uh replacement players then the strike is settled when you're in Colorado with the replacement players and you have to go back and it's only three weeks how difficult was that buck what is the minimum if baseball does return this year that they could get their team and their pitchers ready Mike you know uh you know I'm not going to bore everybody with some of the details but we are going up there I think we might have played the first game in the course still and about the seventh inning we found out the strike had been settled and we as coaches it was probably the low point of all our careers and we knew that we were headed back to Fort Lauderdale that night and we couldn't wait to get the game over and we were so happy when the ball went through our second basins legs and the game ended in the bottom of the night because we were taking off our jerseys going up the runway and now we had to turn our attention to get in another team ready and the biggest challenge you're going to have there is a pitching the position players and that stuff will come quickly spring training is probably a little long for them but the problem is you don't have a uh a buffer zone or you don't have a safety net if someone gets hurt now I'm talking about position players too you know because now you're talking about being set back I don't know if we're gonna end up with bigger rosters or whatever but the biggest challenge that Aaron and his staff will face is going to be getting the pitching ready and not getting too fast because and you're not going to see you guys or you I don't think you should personally seeing guys pitching seven eight innings the first time out you're going to probably have to have the guys that have some depth in their bull and I would assume that they're going to add some pitchers to this to stay away from some of the injuries but uh the biggest challenge you're going to face is getting the pitching ready and the lure to go too fast you can't go too fast I think we went a long time before we let anybody go more than five or six innings and the starting pitchers are going to be have to be held back a little bit not try to the finish line is not the start of the season anymore so let me let me piggyback on that though so the pitchers were almost ready but they were two weeks away from you know opening day so let's say I mean we're all lucky and the world recovers quickly and they decide they're going to start the season in June have the pitchers gone all the way back to zero might not completely because mentally they're not back to zero emotionally they're not back to zero which means something okay it does physically you can't assume anything when you go to camp with these guys you know you can't assume that somebody as much as you try to to uh stay in contact and what have you you know I talked to Aaron a day or two ago about just baseball and uh that's going to be the challenge for them as much as you try to stay in touch with these guys uh you can't assume anything when you go there so you're going to have to kind of treat everybody the same I mean do you imagine if you go too fast with with a cold especially with some of the injuries the Yankees have now their depth is really going to be tested it's one of their strengths but it's also going to be uh tested and you can't afford to go too fast you can and I I think you've got to start out treating it like you're back at square one now the challenge baseball has buck is the winter so they can't go too deep into November here so if we don't get back until until July or deeper into the summer is there to you a number a minimum that you can play to say that it's a season that's worth doing well I think you once again um yeah there's so much unknown about when it's going to start but to me a minimum is half the season you know I think uh if you look at the numbers as long as we're playing the same number of games the sense of urgency is going to be I think entertaining you know it's not that go through a bad stretch short stretch there's going to be a sense of urgency with every game played when the when the season's shortened and I think you're asking for some real problems if you're playing a world series in the middle of November you know I spoke with with David Cohn today which on with buck show alter on the Michael K show and you know Mariano Rivera was on with us he said it can't be a 60 game season that doesn't crown a true champion and I felt like a hundred even 80 was probably the bottom line but David brought up a good point I want to throw it at you uh David said if it's 40 or 50 you have to do it for the good of the country people need it you make it you make it work at 40 or 50 do you agree yeah I think by the way I think David's one of those brilliant guys out there when it comes to baseball and pitching he's one of those pitchers that understands all parts of the game and yeah I think it's secondary I mean how many games you play as long as you're playing the same number of games I think the game's going to be so all the all sports are going to be celebrated when we get back so I think he's exactly right that in terms of your priorities I mean what do you play 40 50 80 a hundred games who cares as long as we're playing the same number of games and we're presenting a healthy environment for our fans to be in I think that's what's paramount see that's an interesting question too buck because I do think we miss sports and we will flock back but will we go to games as much because first of all you can have the economy will people have the money to go and also will there be a certain period of I'm not sure I want to sit next to somebody I don't know I'm not sure I want to be some place where where there are 50,000 people do you think they'll be an adjustment period well you know I've one of them one of the complaints I have had just in tongue and cheek is we've made it so easy to stay home and watch games you know believe me nobody puts on a Gamebird and the S Network and and you know okay am I going to go park am I going to do this oh I'm just going to tape it and watch it when I can down in the man or woman cave down below and watch it when I want to and cut out the commercials if I want to so now it's the flip side of that I think it's you're still going to have a great fanship to it but I think people are going to pick their spots and there's a lot of unknown there and anybody who's here in Calis and say this is exactly what's going to happen is kidding themselves now when baseball does come back buck there's a chance that social distancing will still be in something that the scientists say what we need to do so they might be playing games in front of empty stadiums and you were a man who managed the Orioles during the riots when they played that game in an empty stadium what is the challenge there what was that like well we certainly want to worry about any trash cans being banged because you'll be able to hear it for sure yes for sure um I said that I don't know if I should have said it but I say but I yeah it's been proven you know can I tell you though I you didn't want to say it at the time there was a lot of things after the first inning or two of that game you know it really hit me what drove a lot of the speed of the games and how how long they were taking I think that game was like two two five two ten you know there was no walk-up music there was you know there's so much emotion of the players that is driven by the reactions of the fans some got those a curveball three inches from somebody's shoulder and everybody's going who are you selling at but you know you didn't have any of that people the umpires could hear every word you said I could hear Jim Palmer uh announcing the game upstairs I mean there was a certain purity of the game that you would you know you thought you were in the structural league or extended swing but once the first inning two got by people played the game they got in the box a hit they threw the baseball there was a certain pureness of the game I didn't have to pick up the phone to call the bullpen I could just yell down there get Britain up you know so it was uh it was interesting not something I want to do all the time but um it really made me kind of step back go you know you want to talk about pace of game you know I think we've identified it and the enemy is us did the players have a hard time playing with the same intensity without the fans without the music the walk-up music things like that no Mike they didn't that's what's kind of not shocked me but I went wow there was a certain professional I don't know if you did it for 20 days what would change but because now the fans drive so much of the the player you know you need it some time you come off a late night game on the west coast the next day you might be playing a day game somewhere you need that something that reminds you that's important to a lot of people I used to tell our guys that they're on the west coast it's 11th in Seattle somebody in Baltimore is living and dying with every pitch you're throwing and you're you're swinging it so you know that I think it would be short lived if you went through it with not many people in the stand I think some of that would start to drag down the intensity level do you think a lot of the vitriol fans would have against the Astros would it dissipate by the time you get the chance to play I gotta tell you someone made a point the other day that if there's the Astros may have kind of gotten off the hook a little bit some with this um that being said I think you're still going to see that not go away fans especially baseball fans have a long memory they they dealt you know they dwell on history as much as anybody and especially in New York they have such a great memory of things that went on I don't think you're going to see it completely go away but I think you are going to have it kind of dulled a little bit baseball is a big uh handshake high-fives sort of sport do you think that that's going to change forever now not forever Mike you know you know we I don't think the who knows you know we're all talking about something that's uncharted territory anybody sit here and smugly say this is what's going to happen this is going to happen for sure I just don't see it I think we're going to kind of wade our way through it as we go and if someone's I hate to say it's going to be trial and error but there's going to be some unknowns and some very qualified people are going to give us some guidelines to go by think about negative think about a dangerous this could be for the future of grab ass I mean it could never be the same buck well some of that's good because I've never been a big fan of grab ass to start with all right so you love you you love sports it's not just baseball so what are you doing to fill your time I know you're talking to Angela but you've got 24 hours a day what are you watching you know like I think I've been more busy than I have been a long time now I was getting ready for the season you know with with the Yankees and everything and then I'll be TV some but like right now we get off here and we're playing tomatoes I'm taking no chances so you know we got the grandchildren around the corner and you know it's been believe me you tell me something on tv networks or anything like that unfortunately I guess they played the 95 playoff series against Seattle I've been getting a lot of calls about that question and things and you know I hope they go on to another series but people act like that's pleasant for me to remember was that the worst uh the worst experience in your career that game because it was so painful replacement players was the worst experience Mr. Steinberg said stick don't worry about it we're going it's going to be settled before don't worry about putting a good theme together then about five days before it looked like we were going to play with him he said you guys are you guys need to work we sent scouts down to Mexico we started signing players left and right because you're going to be it looked like be held accountable so that was awesome so but the uh the thing I always I hope and pray that nobody ever has to go through a flight from Seattle back to New York I think that's the if I ever write a book that's that's the untold story that I think fans getting on a plane and having a conversation with Mattingly that he was going to retire on the plane just so many things on that trip back that made me realize you know one how lucky you are to be in that situation but also how heartbreaking and how sudden uh victory and defeat go hand in hand is there anything you would want to do differently in that series everything's going to turn out in my life yeah but that's part of life you know you we were always learning along the way but I actually when I hear people say that that's kind of rekindle their love for the game after the strike that series and I take a lot of pride in that because if you look back at that team that Seattle had put together and lose and that was just they were so good and you know we were a peace team that really uh jean michael had put together just people that that fit and uh there's too bad somebody had to lose of course randy johnson what do you do pitch every game yeah you pitch with no days rest well you did he did that in arizona too well if i'd known how good mariano was going to be of course we used him a lot i remember that we took some grief for him and put him on the postseason roster and he played a big role in that playoff i i went a story yesterday and i wanted to ask you about this because i had never heard it before and you're in the yankee organization at the time it was in the athletic and it was they said it was a done deal in 89 the yankees george steinbrunner and the owners of the giants agreed to trade will clark for don mattingly and the yankees are going to get atley hamaker and another pitcher as well uh and i think the yankees are sending rick rodin did you ever hear of that deal i learned some landlings of it you know it wasn't the type you know i was so walked in that you know jean skick always told me things he thought i needed to know and if he didn't think that it's it and managing that team he was if it got down to the end game and we were getting ready to do it so hey we can do this what are you thinking and we didn't get to that point but i'd not to say it wasn't close yeah the deal is written here rick rodin and mattingly for will clark atley hamaker and craig lefferts and you know as much you know how i feel about mattingly i know how you feel about mattingly but that would not have been a bad deal because mattingly had one more good year and then his back broke down and will clark actually had pretty good years but i mean so many things would have changed in this story they said that if they had had mattingly they had to sign them and there's no way they would have signed barry bonds and then the yankees would have gotten barry bonds well yep and that would have been another story all together too but yeah my tip to this day i still think about one of the best trades ever made there was the one that donnie allowed us to make because we knew that he wasn't coming back and nobody else would stick was able to trade for tino martinis um jeff melton that that trade for uh there was russ davis and sterling hit scott there was somebody else that came back but that that that really set up the yankees to have a first base because as soon as they knew he wasn't coming back the price would have gone way up i think it was jeff nelson the other guy which has made an amazing deal i think i mentioned that but jeff nelson there was another guy on that deal i believe uh jim monsieur jim monsieur who you know tastes well yeah change it wow don't take it all back i was gonna say i take it all back sheer brilliance by my i told you i told you what you really did deliver it right yeah you gotta you want to apologize don't i just i i'm not gonna apologize i'm not gonna apologize that i was wrong i'm not gonna apologize nobody got nobody's feelings got hurt bucks i don't know bucks seems hurt i don't know i think bucks feel is right no i'm not feeling well i've been numb for a long time he's dead inside you see the rule that they put in an a-ball and rookie ball about you can't go over the first without stepping off what are you thinking about that there's gonna be a lot of ricky henderson's record's gonna be broken well you know if someone asked me about it and i said well you know i was on a competition committee at one time but first of all managers aren't gonna let guys feel second first you're gonna have slower games they're gonna step off hold the ball step off hold the ball pitches are now going to be asked to go one to one to one to the plate so the velocities and the spin rates are going to go down they're going to have uh just constant to i don't know how about indy pettit and uh guys with great moves are no longer going to be affected you're not going to make moves to bring in a guy who can hold a runner on so left handers with a great move no longer assets and scouts i'm a scout i'm not looking for a catcher who can throw anymore i'm looking for a guy to catch and hit because throwing doesn't matter anymore for catchers amazing stuff very quickly in in a minute what did you do did you understand tom brady leaving the patriots because we talked to a lot of people they said it it became so much about winning and never celebrating that it became too much for him even though he won the six superballs could you understand what he's saying do you understand the way bella check is mike you know i think there's a lot more we can't sit here and say we know everything going on there and the one thing that i remember that g michael always drift and john hart did the same thing is you never let a star fall on you you'd rather be a year early than a year late because there's nothing worse for organization the respect you have for a player like tom brady i'm not saying he's not going to win a supergoal this year but you would either be a year early than a year late because of the situation it puts your organization and when you have this guy that you want to show respect for you want to remember all the great things he's done for you but at some point all of us can no longer do the things we could do at one point so i think it was almost something that's good for both of them he's going to get another pop with with something that's going to kind of rejuvenate him you know whatever he may have left and the patriots can they may have a down here but they're going to be back because nobody draft better than them they they they understand what type of player they're looking for to play in their system and they go find them buck great stuff stay safe i'll talk to you soon thank you for coming on thanks buck my god bless you appreciate my time y'all take care you got it that's box i'll talk to you when we return