 Why did he go I mean considering everything was going so smoothly you weren't detected you you were flying back through India You would make two three stops in India. Why did Kim? David decide to leave at that point or disappear Yeah, we were parked by the side of the runway and the aircraft was refueled all the rest of it Even the aircraft airport manager deputy manager asked us why we landed. He didn't at that stage. No, we've been instructed to land He was quite cross actually and There was a big argument between Kim David in the airport deputy airport manager because the airport was insisting on landing fees And David was saying but you ordered us to land. Why should we pay landing fees? But in the end he agreed to pay them and we the aircraft had been fully refueled So probably about a thousand dollars worth of fuel there So he set off he went with the deputy manager of the airport to the terminal to pay for the fuel and pay the landing fees And on the way there He must have passed a couple of lorry loads of police because they arrived at the aircraft about 20 minutes after he left and we were on the opposite side of the runway to the terminal So you had to drive right around the runway to get back to the terminal You see so it's a long journey and he must have thought that the aircraft had been spotted as the Peruvia plane But actually it wasn't it was just customs coming to do a routine search But he must have thought it was everything was over And I assumed he just went and bought a ticket and got another aeroplane I don't know anything about how he got out of India, but that's the last I ever saw of Kim David until three years ago When I saw him in Copenhagen Never heard another word from him after that and you were arrested at that point, right? Yeah, but I was arrested for immigration offenses So when did they lead you to the Peruvian Air Drop? Well, not till I told them that the aircraft was the plane they were looking for for Peruvia I was questioned for two or three hours and it was getting quite boring because I was Repeating myself time and time again that we haven't smuggled anybody. We were forced to land And finally I was faced with a couple of people who were clearly from Delhi They were clearly important people and I'd come to the conclusion that Niels Holker Kim David had definitely gone He'd left And I thought it's now safe to talk and these guys are from Delhi So I told them the story. I said look this is the aircraft that you're looking for and they didn't believe me at first So I said well look if if we go to the aircraft There's still a couple of guns hidden in there and I can show you where they are And so we went to the aircraft I lifted the floorboards and there were a couple of Draganov sniper rifles in there and That then they were convinced that this was actually the aircraft But it was only when I told them that it was the aircraft They, you know That they believe didn't believe me at first. I had to show them these guns So after that you were taken away, right? So you wouldn't really have an idea what was going on in the media and what role the Indian intelligence was playing at that time What did you get? Not at all, no. I mean we were kept in the airport for a couple of days, and then suddenly we were flown to Kolkata and chucked in Bidhanagar police station cells there From there we were transferred to CBI care and we went into jail but it was Must have been four months before I saw a newspaper or heard any news reports And nobody was allowed to talk to us or tell us anything I had no idea what was being said in the media at all. It came as a huge shock To be pulled up in front of the magistrate and suddenly discover I was being charged with waging war against India um, you know Nothing prepares you for that because uh, you know, I wasn't as stupid as I looked and I knew that was a really serious offense Uh, and I just simply couldn't understand So now we know that you you know, you were there for nine years. We do know that the british high commission and your government Put a lot of pressure on the indian government now having said all this What do you think? What is your story? What really happened? Why did the indians not stop the plane at any one of the stops that you had made before and after the Uh after the you know drop Well since There's a lot of reasons. I mean, I I've been talking about this for years now the record shows that I haven't really changed my story very much The revelations that have been made by kim davie Only have served to confirm to me some of the things I've thought for a long time Uh, I started to realize that something was very strange Uh for two reasons firstly In the cbi headquarters in Kolkata. I told you I've been questioned by dozens of people And everybody seemed to be getting a different version of the story So I insisted that I was given a computer and I wrote out the full story. It ran to 30 pages Uh, and then I handed that full statements every detail of what had happened. I gave that to the cbi in Kolkata But in court when he came to court They denied that that statement had haven't been made But whenever the charge sheet the charge sheet was obviously written from my statement And then I was given as the law requires copies of all the evidence and I I started to see all the problems with the evidence And the first thing that I realized was that the massive indian air force radar calicunda had been switched off that night and that night only Uh, and that rang a bell why suddenly kim davie wanted to deliver those guns on the night in the 17th Because I now know that he knew in advance that that radar was switched off That was the real reason it had to go that night Um, lots of other things I the british special branch officer who came to see me in my office altered all the documents relating to that And completely changed the meaning of all the documents But somebody else in England and I yet don't know who that is Saw to it that before it came to court. I got copies of the original documents And during the trial No less than six senior police officers were charge sheets at show caused for fabricating false evidence You know, that tells you there's something wrong. There's a bit of a conspiracy going on. Yeah, I know I know it's a major conspiracy The most interesting thing of all is in that 30 page statement, which essentially says Exactly what I've said to you now, but in far greater detail um Nobody's ever Pointed out the fact that straight after giving that I was subjected to a whole day polygraph testing on that statement by the cbi And that polygraph test indicated that I was telling the truth But that statement has been suppressed that's never been shown The results of the polygraph test have never been made public And also the cbi commissioned interpol to Investigate this and write a report on this from the european angle That was done by a swedish police superintendent called krista brandard his report Was then classified and the cbi refused to allow that report to go into evidence So it's happened here and people may believe my side of the story or not But on that evidence alone, it's pretty clear that something very serious has been covered up here When did you first hear about the anand margie? When did you hear about the anand mark organization? Was it before or after you were arrested? Oh after I was arrested. I I'd never heard them. I was questioned many times, you know, were these guns for the ananda mark And I had no I just talking about I I've never heard of this organization before I didn't know anything about them at all Um, I didn't even know which religion they pursued or anything like that or where they were burst At the very time I I learned something about them was because Um, there was an ananda margie in jail with us and charged along with us He was one of the accused the chap called vinay kumarsim Who was a bihari? Um, and of course he was acquitted at trial because the judge found there was no evidence against him But that was the first time I learned anything at all about ananda mark. Um I'm afraid I'm not a person that spends a lot of time looking at different religions. I'm afraid No, but when we you know the whole thing that you're saying that there is proof and you are you believe that the reader was switched off On that particular night, it's a it's a very clear indication that there was a government level conspiracy Supporting If if I can just mention on that point there, it's not a case of me believing it was switched off I personally cross examined the air force officer on duty that night Uh, he was a witness in court and he admitted on the record in evidence on oath that that radar was switched off that night That's that's an absolute fact. That is it's not an allegation of mine Um, it was it was an assumption. I made from the written evidence But when I cross examined the officer in question, that's when it was confirmed. It actually was switched off and Who who now when you look back and the information that you have gathered Who was that? You know that drop meant for was it for the ananda mark? Was it for another organization? And why did they need these arms? Well, I think so Again, you know, I'm not a follower of an and a mark. Please don't please. Let's not go there at all But from what I've read there is a great deal of animosity between an and a mark and between the cpi and government of West Bengal I don't know how much is true. How much isn't true, but I I've listened to what kim davie or neil sulk as he's now known has said about this And yeah, those things that he alleges do stack up that there is a record of that in the press So I'm assuming there is genuine animosity between the two I think it's highly possible that they may have been used For this they somebody may have seen there were a suitable organization to give arms to I don't necessarily think it was their idea But I've got to admit it's pretty obvious that I was kept in the dark on a lot of things Well, they would not have been in a position to switch off the radar So obviously it might not have been just their idea, right? There's nobody in any way connected with an and a mark from what I can gather of this organization Who has that kind of influence this has to come from somewhere else, you know Um I I don't think I'm being Impertinent when I say that india is paranoid about national security This is a hugely powerful radar that looks into The northern areas into bangladesh and stuff like that You can't switch that off just like that. This is impossible Um, you know, it's just it's just crazy You have to have a great deal of influence and power to be able to switch off a radar like that So what you're saying is really that the anand mar was a conduit or just a conduit maybe for a much larger conspiracy, right? I think so. I think that sounds the most likely thing I have to say I don't know that of my personal knowledge, but you know, you know by by profession I was originally an intelligence analyst So I should be able to at least speculate reasonably The evidence the hard evidence that came out in court that is attested to our know Indicates there was a serious conspiracy of some description When the arms are dropped right slap bang on the doorstep of an under the gar It's difficult to see how there wasn't some intention to supply arms to there If it was for some other group somewhere else, then surely They could have gone somewhere else But the one thing I've always said is that if if an under margis themselves Wanted if this was an under marg conspiracy and they wanted these guns It would have been far far easy to drop them within their huge compound at an under the gar It's a massive compound and it wouldn't matter what altitude the plane flew at Even if it went wrong, it would have still fallen within that compound So the fact that that didn't happen suggests to me that this wasn't an official An under marg conspiracy The people involved may also have been an under margis and things like that But I don't think it came from their leadership So it is like you have said in other interviews to destabilize the left-hand government in West Bengal I mean the whole intention seemed to be that I was told right at the very beginning That the arms were meant to attack a communist a communist state government at that stage I was unaware that West Bengal was such a government Now I know a lot more about that There is another word communist government, but it's an awful long way away from Perulia It doesn't seem a very likely candidate. It does it. So and You know give them all that happens Just one more couple more questions One is on you know after your release and even the years that you spent in jail But more so after your release you must have spoken to the mi5 guys as well. What is the explanation About you know, or what is the conjecture if you want me to use that term About the role of the Indian intelligence in this entire thing I've got a stress that nobody from British intelligence has spoken to me since I came back to the UK Okay, we will accept that Yeah, no that happens genuinely. I know I'm I'm I'm quite surprised at that There is a book Written by a lady called Annie Maction who is the former girlfriend of A renegade mi5 officer called David Shayla whose name you may well be familiar with He's a convicted traitor. He sold my five secrets to the mail on Sunday It is pretty certain that David Shayla Was the mi5 case officer for the Perulia business I haven't been able to talk to him yet Annie Maction in her book accuses me of being an mi6 agent and accuses me of plotting the entire Perulia case To embarrass mi5 I have to assure you that that isn't true It's a difficult question But You know mi5 must have passed the information through their Indian counterparts Mi5 certainly wouldn't pick up the the telephone and And speak to somebody in the central government cabinet The conduit is through their opposite number in India and there must have been very close liaison Um, I know there's a great deal of rhetoric. There was a gentleman Who was hugely offended by the thought that intelligence agencies might do anything untoward at all on times now television the other day spluttering But the reality is that All our intelligence agencies occasionally get up to some pretty disreputable things That nobody is exempt Now that not the Indians not the British not the americans all our intelligence agencies get up to stuff It's what they're there for So I can't see how they weren't involved You can't do this this I I wrapped up an interview with somebody else Some months ago before all this business with kim davis x tradition came up And I simply said look when you look at the facts None of this could have happened without a great deal of involvement of intelligence agencies and people with huge influence Uh, similarly an intelligence agency alone cannot get the radar switched off That's got to be a political thing So it's across the board or I'd love to find out the truth. Um, you know, I'm not looking for sympathy from Indian people That's that's not what I'm here about But I you know if you my personal point of view, I do want the truth. It cost me eight years in jail I think on that basis alone, I deserve to know what the truth is I also think the people of west Bengal who would have been the victims of this Deserved to know the truth as well. It's outrageous and democracies That governments like the Indian government and the British government should behave like this because the British government knew what was going on Whatever happened they knew about it. Similarly, the danish government knew about this um, the danish security service has Declassified a lot of documents in recent years one of those shows that Only a few days after I gave the information to NMI 5 The danish security service briefed fully the danish justice minister and they did nothing as well you know We here we are fighting a war on terror all over the world ostensibly and doing all sorts of things in the name of a war on terror and yet here When everybody's told there's a terrorist action about to take place. Everybody looks the other way Now it doesn't make sense. I'm afraid you can't have both Either we have a war on terror or we don't if we do this has got to be looked into Right. I think on this note. We will end this. Thanks so much for giving us your time