 show is titled The Power of Breakthrough Ideas, and this is going to be a really cool way for us to start a Monday to look at the onset of another busy season for so many of our nonprofits. Things change for them as we go into the summer. So this is going to be a lot of fun, and I can't wait to hear what our guest Veronica has to say. Again, if we haven't met, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. Jurit Ransom, nonprofit nerd in the CEO of the Raven Group, just so happens to be in Raleigh, North Carolina, where Veronica Lafamina, it's getting in my head now, resides and serves. So this is going to be a really interesting thing to chat about. Again, if you were with us last week, we celebrated our 800th episode, and we are here because of our gracious sponsors, and they include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, nonprofit thought leader, fundraising academy at National University, staffing boutique, nonprofit nerd, and nonprofit tech talk. Hey, we have a lot of ways we can connect with you. You can find us live. You can join us on any of our streaming channels. We also have podcasts of every episode if you like to consume your content that way. And then we have a super cool new app that the team at American Nonprofit Academy, led by our executive producer Kevin Pace, has developed. It is amazing. You can download that app where we like to buy your apps or get your apps. Our app is free, Veronica. And you can also scan this code. So it's a learning platform that will help you engage with what we're talking about for that day, or if you need to research something or find our archives. So check us out. Okay, Veronica, talk to us about Lafamina and Company. What do you all do over there? Thanks, Julia. So Lafamina and Co., we are a strategic advisory firm for nonprofit organizations and social impact businesses. What does that mean? We tend to work with nonprofit CEOs and department heads to help them really navigate the day-to-day complexities of nonprofit leadership and management. We work across the organization on topics like strategy and leadership, change management and communications, both internal and external, to help organizations go from feeling stuck to strategic and help them really move their, not just their missions forward, but their organizations, their staff, their fundraising is something that we look across the whole of the organization and really say, how can we start implementing practical strategies for continuous improvement in your org? So this has got to be kind of like the wild west of your type of work, given that we've had this global pandemic. And then I would argue additional social pandemics from political unrest, to economic challenges, to issues of justice, all of these different things that are going on. Have you found that people are willing to take a deep breath and look at strategy, or are they just trying to keep their head above water? I think there's still so much pressure that nonprofit leaders feel, understandably, completely based on what you're saying Julia, right? So obviously it's been a long time since we had a global pandemic, and the realities that we're dealing with right now, in addition to the social pandemics that you're talking about, are I think helping leaders understand there should be a better way, there's got to be a better way. But it can feel really hard to know what that better way is, what it looks like, and to take that step back. We still might feel the pressures of a pre-pandemic time, or the pressures to get back to something we were before, but really adjusting that perspective and saying, hey, how can we take this to where we need to go next? What does it look like as we think about what new paths forward should be, not just getting us back to where we used to be, because used to be isn't working anymore in the same way? No, and I love what you've said, and this just kind of clicked in before we really talked about breakthrough ideas, but one of my immediate response to what you've just said is that I don't know how an organization can do this internally without an outside voice. I mean, it just doesn't seem like you can go back and keep saying the same things or having the same desires for change if you don't have that external person, and maybe that's something for another time, but it's really a powerful dynamic, it seems to me, to have that leader. Yeah, I would agree that having a strategic advisor, having a coach, having some kind of external resource, it's not just about sending money to spend money on an outside at first opinion, it's the fact that being in these leadership positions in these times is really lonely, and it can be really difficult to understand how your organization fits into the broader context, what other people are dealing with in other areas that you may not be as familiar with, and sometimes you need permission from that person, not outside expert or advisor to say, here are the things that can really wait, and here are the things we need to focus on in order to achieve the kind of growth you want or to really look at your goals and say, here's what aligns to that. I think we get a little, we really like our processes in the nonprofit sector, and that's what's good reason, but also sometimes we are so concerned about completing a process perfectly that we forget that process may not be giving us that outcome or the impact that we need. Well, to your point, I mean, things have, you said this right off the bat, you know, where we were is probably not where we should go back to. I mean, there's been a lot of change, there's been a lot of disruption, and some of that has been good. Some of that has moved us forward, and so to look at if we could only go back is not very realistic, probably, arguably not very tactical, but part of what we wanted to talk to you about today is this concept of the breakthrough idea, and to tag on to what we've just been talking about, I would imagine that a lot of us have been like, screw strategy, I'm just trying to get through the day, and I can't even think about the future, let alone next week. So what and how does a breakthrough idea work and fit into this ecosystem of ours? So I love this topic, Julia, and it's something I get excited about because I think as someone who has to lead communications departments, a national nonprofit organization, I know I'm not the only one who heard, you know, can't we just make our own ice bucket challenge, or we just need this to go viral, or maybe we could get this celebrity to say something about our organization or our cause. Those, the enthusiasm for those recommendations comes from a well-meaning place, but we all know, you know, if we've spent time working directly in the sector, that those kinds of moments aren't something that you can just conjure or create. That said, we can really think about what are the kinds of ideas, the kinds of moments that we can turn into long lasting impact for our organization or for our community. And so when I think about a breakthrough idea, there are a couple of criteria I put in there. So the first thing is, you know, a breakthrough idea is something that we want to have a lasting presence. So not just, you know, a viral couple of months or a viral moment, but really something that sticks with us for a long time. If you think about an idea as a light bulb, like we're looking for the LED light bulb of ideas, we're not looking for a glow stick here, right? So that long lasting sustainable approach. To get there, to find those kinds of ideas, the very first and most important thing is it really needs to have a connection in our community. And so what I mean by that is often the idea is coming from our community themselves. It's something we're seeing them innovate on or hack or come up with in their own way to help make their own lives better or to increase awareness in their specific group of friends or neighbors. So that community connection is essential to long lasting, that long lasting nature. Another element there is like, it really needs to be easy to do and easy to make a difference. So in a social media world, we sometimes get into like, what are people are going to share? What are they going to like and engage with? And those metrics are okay, but they're not as powerful as in-person moments that we can create for our community and our supporters to feel like they can really make a difference. We sometimes get stuck on, we as a nonprofit have to have the idea and we just want people to amplify what we're doing. And we might miss that component where we are truly engaging people in making or doing or being a part of whatever the change may be. So giving them like a physical activity, a physical representation of what tends to be sort of online or out loud amplification on our part. You know, it seems to me like if we, if you and I had met, you know, 12, 24 months ago, that wouldn't have been as important or possible because of the global pandemic. But now I feel Veronica, that people are really starving for that in, you know, in-person piece of volunteerism or attending an event or taking a tour or whatever. I mean, do you think that that is part of this, of this push? I think it can be. But I also think one of the ways we create connection to our causes is by giving people something they can do that will help their neighbors. Right. So especially coming from, you know, larger national organizations, but if your regional organization or statewide, it can feel hard sometimes to have that direct community connection. And so we have to explore the possibility that we can give folks like the instructions, the easy how to make a difference in their community. And so I think when we're talking about the current time we're in, Julia, absolutely event or gathering could be part of that. But it doesn't necessarily need to be convened by us, right? We feel so much responsibility to put all of the platforms in place instead of empowering people to use their own connections, use their own platforms, which is ultimately what we're looking for. We want those people to feel connected to our causes and to come back with enthusiasm and engagement and what we've got going on. Yeah, I absolutely see where you're going on this. And it's really, it leads me to my next question because this is another thing, you know, aligning your team with a breakthrough idea. How do you get them on board? So many of us are still working remotely. A lot of organizations are really embracing it and not even having those, that confluence of energy around the water cooler or in a meeting. So how then do we take this concept of finding that breakthrough idea and moment and fuse that same excitement and commitment to our teams? This is such a good question, Julia, because I think we can sometimes operate in silos about what are expectations for what each team is, I'm going to use air quotes here, supposed to be doing. But we can engage different parts of the organization from the very beginning to help with understanding what kinds of ideas are out there already. So this is a great, you know, a great example would be your frontline fundraisers, the people who answer the phones at your organization, the staff member who is responsible for posting to social media and responding to requests, whoever is staffing your info at email back. What are they hearing from? Who are they, you know, what are they seeing out there in the community? What kind of questions are they getting? How can we bring those folks together in a way that says, here's what we're already hearing, understanding, seeing out there. Because for them, we're giving our teammates across the organization the opportunity to contribute their expertise, which isn't just a do what the organization says out to the community. It's connect with the community, understand what their needs are, understand what's going on. So the thing one is creating an environment and an opportunity for everyone to be part of this idea curation process. The second thing I would say that's really important is we can tend to get a little structured about our, like, about our team structure, about who needs to be involved. And we keep growing and growing and growing that room of people, but often break through ideas start as a small test that then the instruction. And so we can ask ourselves, who does the leader for this test need to be? Does it need to be the vice president of communications or the head of strategy? Or could it be the person who leads our community engagement online? Could that be the person who's the right? I call that person like a team captain for this test. So thinking about team structures differently, I find actually gets rid of some of the will of this VP's in the meeting that this VP needs to be in a meeting or if this department is here, we also need to engage this one. Really approaching this from a low fi perspective. So what's the minimum viable product we need to put out there to just test and see if this is connecting with our community? And it works. Most ideas that we have are often bubbling over time, like really simmering until they hit that boiling and extension point. But they might seem like an overnight success, right? And so when we can not make this a big formal initiative or endeavor, but give our teams enough flexibility to test something out to give it a try to see what the responses in the community we can then build and grow from there. And so we have something that really takes off that our community seems to really connect with. We can then build the supports and resources in around that. Veronica, I've got to imagine that the percentage of organizations that test a breakthrough idea before they just run to the wall on this is really small. We like our plan. And what I will say is we do need to budget, right? We need to recognize that these things aren't just going to happen like with some, you know, broccoli fairy dust and great intention. We need to plan to experiment, right? So I often in my strategy work with organizations will say, do not plan for 100%. Plan for 85% so that you have 15% of space, of budget, of opportunity to test out and take advantage of these opportunities as you go. So let me ask you this and you might have to get your catchers made up because this is kind of like a wild pitch. What if you're an organization that has not had a culture of testing? This seems like a pretty like heavy lift for an organization. I think it's the right lift, but do you see what I'm saying? Like I can see where organizations are like, what does that even mean? How do we do it? We're trying to do this breakthrough idea, and we don't even understand the whole testing concept. Can you kind of walk us through that a little bit? Sure. So first of all, you know, don't put the stress on yourself of having, you're trying to develop a breakthrough idea, right? What you're trying, what you're looking for is resonance with your community. What are people talking about and care about? It might not be like if we, for example, are an organization that's talking about yours and advocacy and things that might feel a little less directly accessible in people's lives. You might need to recognize that the thing that connects with them and helps them understand that we are for them might have a more like direct presence in their daily life. It might not be something that is what we're out there talking about on Capitol Hill or in other places. So thing one is we're not really trying to manufacture a breakthrough idea so much as get a sense of what's really connecting with our community. The second thing is testing does not need to be super formal. Once you develop a process or if you want to really develop a testing culture, there are absolutely ways to do that. But a lot of times it can be as simple as creating a post on social media and seeing how that goes and respond. And if you are an organization that has some budget for your social, you could also test out two different ideas at the same time, maybe using some pace advertising. So a few dollars at that to see what seems to resonate with folks. I can say about 10 years ago, I was leading communications at a national nonprofit organization and our big breakthrough idea there that was around food allergies at the time was a great community idea. We put together a small social media post just like a graphic and it really took off all over social media because we were doing something that resonated with our community. It was a great community idea from a support group leader in Tennessee about painting a pumpkin teal at Halloween so she could talk about food allergies. And then we, as a national organization, were able to work with her and create the teal pumpkin project, which now, nine years later, launched in 2014 nationally, has completely changed Halloween for kids with food allergies and for other kids where candy being a problem. And so that moment, that was a test. It was an opportunity to say, hey, let's see if this sticks, but then the work we did to build on it after and the long tail that it has, the impact we saw, is how we kept being able to grow and innovate over time. So sometimes when you're trying to align that team, it is about getting a little traction first to help show people that actually here is proof of concept. Here's how we know that this is relevant for our community. Right. And I think that it's, you know, there's nothing worse than fighting the internal fight or battle first and then trying to go out and do something across the community. If you have to launch your, your, your concept or your plan, and you've had such a struggle internally, you're exhausted by the time you are front facing. And so, and that is no fun. There, that's no fun. So to get this, you know, kind of amped and ramped up, I think is really smart. You know, I have so enjoyed talking to you. It's been really interesting and I have a million more questions for you, but I want to know, and I like asking this question to our guests, how do you know when this is working? I mean, how do you know? Is it a gut feeling, which I'm not knocking that at all, but is it all data centric? I mean, is it immediate? Does it go over a period of time? Yes to everything I just said. I mean, what does this look like? Yeah, so my answer to this is always it depends on your goals, but I think an example can be helpful. So again, when I was at Food Allergy Research and Education in 2014, when we launched the Tilt Pumpkin Project nationally, again, I want to emphasize great community idea that we then worked with that community member to bring to a national audience. But our first indicator of success was that it took off like wildfire on social media. I mean, it really was like back in the early days of Canva, one image, just recommending that people put a Tilt Pumpkin on their porch during Halloween to let kids know that they had non-food treats available. So that for kids for whom Halloween is hard, they knew that this was a community member who cares about them a place where they could get something safe. And so, you know, thing one was, okay, what are you seeing or hearing on social? What kind of responses are you getting from your community? Not just in shares and likes, but also what kind of engagement? What kind of comments are you getting? Those are some of like the near term wins that you can get. Because it took off on social, we ended up getting a lot of earned media attention. And so we heard not only, it was a bunch of news outlets sharing about the campaign, which, you know, I wouldn't have even have called the campaign until we were like, oh, this is taking off. We need to keep scaffolding and supporting. But it was also news articles about how we ran the campaign, right? It was process pieces because people were trying to understand how did this thing take off. In longer term sense, right, we were seeing more people sign up for our email list. We were seeing more donations come in. We were seeing folks download the free resources we had and also we started putting together sort of like prep kits. If you wanted to just, you know, get your teal pumpkin sign and some non-food treats from us directly, you could do that. But then, you know, in the years after that, too, the kind of success we were seeing was the engagement of for-profit companies, right, of the retail sector and saying, oh, this non-profit has helped illuminate a market that we can serve, right? And so now, when you go to different brands, you know, there have been partnerships over time with brands like Target and with Michaels, you could actually buy a teal pumpkin or there would be a section for non-food treats with a designated teal pumpkin in those stores around Halloween time. So when you talk about like how an idea works, how a breakthrough idea works, there's so many different measures and different areas to say we're really changing how people thought about, you know, changing Halloween wasn't really on our list of strategic priorities or in our strategic plan, but it became, it was so important to our community, right? And so I think that was the key is coming back to did this make a difference in the lives of our community? You know, I have the benefit still all these years later of knowing it does because I see it and houses around my neighborhood, I see it must miles of kids who come up to my door. But those measures are important to, you know, have we actually changed life for our community? We often do it with advocacy or with some other kind of big behind the scenes things, but when we can do that in person thing that helps their community, their geographical community and take care of them too, you will feel the impact in some of those hard measures, but also in the kind of feedback they're getting. You know, it's fascinating because I can see that trajectory of how, you know, one thing is successful, but then you actually amplify that success by giving it more attention, drilling down, adding to it, modifying it. It doesn't just happen on its own. You kind of steward that through. And then it's fascinating to me with the teal pumpkin concept, adding to it, you know, and stewarding that over the year and aligning that to a time of year. It's very, very interesting. And I have to admit, I have seen that, but I didn't know what it meant. You know, I have seen that. Like you said, like Joanns and Michaels, you know, during that period of time, I have seen those. I'm kind of wondered, oh, is that a new color choice, you know, as opposed to really understanding how this navigates. Very, very interesting. Well, lots of big ideas. I feel like when we were talking about this in the green room chatter, and then we kind of started this show today with this Veronica, is that now is the time as we're moving away slowly, but surely from crisis management. Now is the time for some big ideas and being bold and leaning into some longer term things. So I have loved having you on today to talk about this, because it's, if you're going to do something now is the time to embrace it, wouldn't you say? I think so, Julia. And I want to encourage people, you are exhausted probably still, and that's okay. It's totally okay to still feel exhausted. This is not, you know, a call to say, go do all these big things. But if I could encourage people to do one like really practical stuff, it's just start looking at what you're hearing from your community. Make a regular practice of inviting the groups who speak with community members regularly just to come together and chat. What are we hearing? What's going on? What are people struggling with? Often the inspiration and spark for these kinds of ideas comes from that like day to day knowing of what is on the minds of our community. And you know, that doesn't mean we're going to divert a lot of efforts, you know, or divert a lot of resources to something that's untested, but it does give us an idea of what are we hearing? What's resonating? What are we, what are the themes we keep coming back to? And that is an opportunity to start making a difference in this way. Absolutely. Here, here. I mean, that's just brilliant advice for running an organization, I think. I mean, I think that's like the right attitude and mindset. So I love that you've shared that with us. Veronica LaFamina, founder and CEO of LaFamina and Co. Really a pleasure to have you on today. And again, I've loved so many things that you've said. And so we need to have you come back on and talk about more of these strategic paths that maybe as a sector we are more prepared to embrace and kind of look at what we can be doing as opposed to just being on that hamster wheel that so many of us have been on and haven't figured out how to get off. So really, it's been a lot of fun, Veronica, to have your wisdom today. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of American Nonprofit Academy. Jared Ransom, the nonprofit nerd, oddly enough is in the same community where Veronica is coming to us from today, unbeknownst to all of us. She'll be joining us back here tomorrow. Again, we've had this amazing conversation because of the support from our sponsors and they include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, nonprofit thought leader, fundraising academy at National University, staffing boutique, nonprofit nerd and nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the folks that join us day in and day out with our big ideas. And so we really want to make sure that they know how appreciative we are. Okay, Veronica, you said something really interesting and that was everybody's still tired and we're just coming out of this and it's okay to pace yourself and look at this as an opportunity and not a drudgery. And this stuff tells with our ending message that we say every day at the nonprofit show and that is to stay well so you can do well.