 Causing animal suffering is forbidden. What about bacteria? When we kill bacteria... Do you think the most compassionate God would be happy with the state of this sh**? You have to eat animals though. There's no nice way of killing an animal. Exactly, so you agreed. So then why do we do it? Okay, but if you put other animals, how do you explain that? Humans life's worth more than animals, right? You wouldn't be sustainable in the world. There ain't got enough food to have every single person be of you. Here's a good one. Here's a good one for you, bro. My God gave us a right to eat animals. And he said he created animals for us and I trust his judgement more than any human. You had a debate, innit? Yeah, yeah, who was it? Tristan Taylor. Tristan, yeah, yeah. He made some good points though, you know. What were some good points that he made? He said he doesn't care. Do you agree with him? Nah, obviously we do care. Nah, we do care as in like... He said he doesn't care how cruel we are to animals because he said they're animals and we eat them. You have to eat animals though. Do I have to? Do you, innit? Because I've been eating animals for nearly 10 years. Yeah, but that's... So I'm like a living example of how you don't have to. Yeah, previously you did though. Yes, true. Maybe, yeah, yeah, like survival, you mean? But can you really survive on long term without eating animals? It's been nearly a decade for me, bro, yeah. And all the science is... Science changes every time it depends. Yeah, but okay, so we're all vegan here. All of us. And there's massive vegan movement and there's really good data on vegan diets as well. The Adventist health study too. Vegan vegetarians had a lower mortality rate. You got less cancer, less heart disease. You're not religious in it. Nah, are you Muslim? Yeah, Muslim. I don't like to deal with the pig. That's what I was saying to Tristan actually. I don't know if you watched the whole discussion. Nah, not at all. But I brought it up on Islam actually because Andrew's a Muslim now. And Tristan was saying he doesn't care about cruelty in it. And I said, well, in Islam they have a haram and halal. Yeah, and you have to respect animals. Nah, we do because we believe on the day of judgment, yeah? If you kill an animal unjustly, yeah? God will hold you accountable for that. So basically, now we do. But you've got to kill it like your main way. And then there's seven animals you can't eat. But then again, he's going to argue that his main way of killing an animal that's what he's going to come up with. Halal way. You cut the throat. If you need to, maybe. If you need to, maybe halal way is the best way. And halal is not suffering. You know that, right? Yeah, that's the main goal. Have you seen Halal slaughter videos? No, of course. Of course they will violate. Have you seen Halal slaughter? No, he's got a point. He's got a point where there is obviously that, there is companies that violate the policies and that's everywhere around the world. You live here? Yeah, we do, yeah. Yeah, okay. So here in the UK, you get chickens. They come from factory farms, 100%. And then they take them from the factory farm. They drive them in a truck to a halal slaughterhouse. They halal slaughter them. And they live the life of suffering. You're going to understand, yeah? There's a lot of people all over the world. What you're saying about halal for you as Muslim, like if you go and buy chicken at the short store, they come from a factory farm here in the UK statistically. Some KFCs, they'll do halal chicken, right? And a Muslim might go and go, okay, they've treated this animal with respect. No, complete disrespect. And then they take him to a halal slaughterhouse and killed them. And who knows what goes on in those slaughterhouses, bro? You don't watch? You know what it is? I agree with some of what you're saying, yeah? But you know, you're advocating for fully banned. That's not what I mean. But you're going to understand one thing. Animals are not humans as well. So they're not going to have the same treatment as humans. Of course not. There's no nice way of killing an animal, never. Exactly, so you agree. There's no nice way to kill an animal. No, there's not. There's not. So then why did we do it? Why did we need to do it? So what's more compassionate? I know that Islam has very important parts about animals that other religions don't have, which is why I have good conversations with Muslims, right? Causing animals suffering is forbidden. Now, in the time of the Prophet, there were not factories. There's suffering they cause in the dairy. Now, dairy is halal by default, yeah? You go on the shop, you don't look for halal milk. Halal, cheese, it's always halal. Yeah, because back then there was no factories for milk. You just take it from the goat or whatever like this. Now there's factories, bro. They impregnate the mother. They take the calf away. That causes the mother suffering because they're taking her baby. They kill the calf if they're a male. And then the cow will go to a non-halas slaughterhouse to be slaughtered, turn into minced meat. Yeah, and you'll take the milk. You'll fund the industry, right? But it shouldn't really be her arm. Now, the fact you think we don't agree with it, but it comes to like eating animals, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but the way they do it... It's not happening like the traditional way that you think. Where they have these animals they respect. If it was happening traditional. No, because it's needless. It doesn't have to happen. Why do you think animals have been put in the world? I think they were put in the world to experience life. Okay, but if you put... No, but other animals that eat other animals, had you explained that? Yeah, it doesn't say anything. They need to. They need to. They need to. We don't. We don't. Animals eat each other, bro. They rape each other. Lions eat other lioness cubs. We don't eat each other's babies. So we can't look in nature and say that that's ethical. They do it because they have to. And cows never harmed anyone. Chickens never harmed anyone. Our lamb never harmed anyone. And it's permissible to be vegan. You can be a vegan Muslim. No problems. And you're guaranteed this is halal. Because there's no animals being decapitated, no factory farms, this and that. It's the way to minimise the suffering you cause. It's the best way, bro, to minimise. I think we're the factory part. Or in animals. So you eat out of factory farms, brother? Because you've got no other option. Yes, you can be vegan. Now, if you go into a store, right, and you get the vegan option, you can guarantee it's halal. Unless it's got alcohol, you just check if some dessert with alcohol, whatever, like... Yes. I don't know if vegan is fully healthy or not. I don't know. It's healthier in many ways. You could have full meat. It's healthier. I know you do follow Tristan. He eats like a lot of meat. A lot of red meat, a lot of this and that. But it isn't healthy. I know Muslim are supposed to look after your health. Are you advocate for health a lot? No. I'm an animal rights activist. I want animals to have rights so that they don't get mass exploited and murdered. That's it. I want them to have rights. The most suffering that happens on this earth is for animals killed for food. The most by numbers. The most suffering and killing, blood spilt is because of humans lost for animals. We don't need to, bro. They wouldn't be sustainable in the world. They ain't got enough food to have every single person be a vegan. Here's a good one. Here's a good one for you, bro. Because if we were meant to eat animals, all of us and God would have accounted for population growth. He knows how many people is going to be on the earth. Think, think. They have to grow a bunch of plants to feed to those animals. They have to grow soya, oats, corn. Most of the farmland on earth, 83% has been used for animals. Most of the water, if you think of fresh water. People are starving on earth and we're feeding chickens in factory farms in the UK. Human beings are starving. Tristan was saying, I don't care about animals, I only care about people. If you care about people... I used to say that. You were saying... He said... He doesn't care about animals. He said he doesn't give a s*** about animals. I speak to him all the time. He doesn't care. Okay. He doesn't care. You wouldn't say a human's life is worth more than animals' life. Humans' life is worth more than animals' life. But animals' life is worth more than our taste buds and we don't have to cause this suffering and we can eat something else. If you're not like a farmer in Pakistan living in the mountains and all you've got is access to the modern world and things like that and they don't have access to grow plants and things like that. What are they going to eat? I think they would have access to plants in Pakistan. North-west of Pakistan is full of mountains. There's nothing to grow. So in a survival situation... Yeah, but they have to eat animals. I'm not going to go out and talk to my mother. I'm not going to go out and bring the TVs out there. I have to argue with the work that they're up there. So they would be justified eating it. Yeah, but people do crazy things in survival situations. Bro, you know what I'm saying? I mean, justified is a strong word. In a bad situation, yeah. I mean, because people kill each other in bad situations all the time. I don't think killing is justified because in this situation there's situations where you can think killing, oh, they do it because they're in a bad situation. So I'm saying to you guys here in the UK right now, you don't need to. The most compassionate choice you can make right now in civilisation is a vegan choice and it would be the most halal choice. The least amount of suffering and unjustifiable killing and you don't know what's going on on the other end of the halal label. If you look into it, you might be shocked at what you find. The way I look at it, yeah? Yeah. I understand what you're saying. Yeah. Make some good points. Yeah. But the way I look at it, my God gave us a right to eat animals and he said he created animals for us as humans and he said, which animals you can eat and I trust his judgement more than any human. That's the way I'm going. Yeah, and you're not going to listen to me. You're some guy on the side of the road. I understand that. I know you're not going to listen to me over God, right? Yeah. But if God is compassionate, I think the most compassionate God would be happy with the state of this sh**. He wouldn't be. He wouldn't be. Okay. I'm just saying, but then he's given us how to do it. What's the human way of doing it? And if it's not done the way God said them, then we will be helped. Then it's haram. Even the prophet said, if you kill even so much as a bigger, something as a sparrow or something larger without any justification, then Allah the Almighty will bring you forth on the day of judgement and he'll ask you, why did you kill him? Because it was his creation. What I've heard is, there are insects that do get killed just trying to provide your food. They're spraying the plants to protect the plants because if you, this is what's going to happen if you let insects run amok on the plants. They eat through entire populations food source and humans die. So we have to, we've got justification to do it. You said unjustified. In Islam, it's unjustified. This is completely justified. Using pesticides are one of the most justified things we do. Otherwise we won't have any crops to feed people. But surely you can, what's unjustified? You're killing it either way though, isn't it? No, no, no, but this is justified killing. This is different to, it's like, no, 100%. Well, you don't keep protecting. No, but this is where that you should become, you decide what's justified and what's not. Well, it's easy. It's really easy. No, but if I say it's not, but then you're saying it is. The thing is, no one's saying that it's not permissible to be vegan and a Muslim. I know, plenty of vegan Muslims. You can? Yeah, you can. You're just saying you're also allowed to eat meat, right? But the prophet is trying to teach you about your own religion. I'm just saying that. That was because of poverty and other things, right? But the prophet... Yeah, mostly dates and was it grains and things like that? But he did, they was camel meat they used to eat. If he gave us a little... A little, a little amount. No, but that's because of poverty. Showing compassion to an animal is the same as showing compassion to a human. What is this quote? Have you had this quote before? No. I don't know, you know. You know what, bro? I just think that this is an abomination for accountability. And I'm just saying that these factory farms that these chickens are in, they're fucking suffering to death on their faces, which is fucking haram as fuck. I agree with that. Yeah, which is nothing. This is nowhere near compassion. And then they go to a whole ass slaughterhouse. And I'm just saying that this is... I mean, you can look into it yourself, bro. I thought the government has some sort of rules or regulation. I thought I didn't know this was happening. Also, England probably had this. I can understand there was a third world country's differ, but I didn't know why isn't there any laws? There are. They're called guidelines. There's not really that... that farmed animals are not protected by the law. Really? Like, there's certain things you can do that will get you in trouble with the law, but they kind of get let off. They're not protected like, say, a dog is or whatever, but they've got guidelines in these places like, oh, only stocking density of 50,000 birds and it's just a fucking ridiculous, bro. They grow too fast to support their own body weight. They've been selectively bred. 60% of the mother pigs are kept in farung plates. I know you don't eat pigs, but they can give you guidelines, but there's never eyes in there watching them constantly, is there? It's just big sheds out the back of people's houses. You know what, bro? It's a good conversation, yeah? I agree with some points, especially with cruelty. Other points... But when you go into the supermarket, you're going to buy the chicken where you don't know where it's from, knowing that this is suffering, causes suffering, when you can buy a vegan and you know that it hasn't. What about bacteria? When you kill bacteria, is bacteria not... It's not sentient, so it doesn't experience the world. So God created animals to experience the world. They experience... The bacteria is alive. Because now they're alive, but they're not sentient. It's like this is alive, but it doesn't feel nothing. You don't have to worry about halal vegetables, because God didn't say halal vegetables. Your... Your worldview doesn't work on God anyway. I talk to whoever's worldview I'm speaking to. No, but you need to have criteria. This... The criteria for sentience is usually a brain, a functioning nervous system, a brainstem connected to the brain, and plants don't possess them. And what was the other criteria? Just like intelligent life forms with no sentience. There's no experience there. How do you know? Well, how do I know that f***ing... That tree isn't a f***ing... I don't know, a monster or something. I don't know. You can say how do you know about everything, but... Well, bacteria's actually living the one you're listening to. Yeah, so it's a tree. And anyway, how come there's no halal guidelines for stepping on bacteria? No, it's not mentioned. It's just... No, but I... I don't know. Anyway, it's nice to... It's good talking to you. Take care. Joey. Joey.