 Not everybody's here yet still may show up some We can go ahead and call the meeting to order for Tuesday, February 18th, 2020 Like always the first thing we have to do is approve the agenda. Is there any ads or deductions? Make a motion wait wait Yeah, I just wanted to add We need to talk about tax anticipation borrowing Okay, and then you would like to add liquor licenses for the village market fast stop and Champlain bars The tax anticipation borrowing you can play at the end of my stuff That again Carla liquor licenses under consent agenda items for village market fast stop and Champlain farms Came in after I posted the agenda Yeah, I was gonna add before making really a motion to add to the agenda a short discussion at the end of our agenda to have talk about possibly using some Test test strips on roads to look at the use of installing foam Okay I'd also just like a five second discussion on Coronavirus as well just I'm sorry Carla on that last you got village market fast stop and what was the last or anything else so Seeing nothing else if somebody wants to Approve the agenda as edited Take a motion make a motion to approve the agenda as amended Second Favor say aye. Hi. Hi Consent agenda items Consisting of the minutes of January 27th meeting liquor licenses for Maplewood convenience store sunflower natural foods Zen burn Vitality Mart cold howl cider mill Kenny drugs village market fast stop and Champlain farms and Festival permit for the Rotary Club for an event on March 22nd at st. Leo's Hall You're a motion to approve the consent agenda so moved Second right all those wish to approve it. Please say aye Hi, right Public is there anybody here from the public that wishes to speak at this time Look as though even though we got a full house So we'll jump right into downtown transportation fund grant and that has to be you Thank you for having me tonight This is a grant that we had put in for 2017 received a hundred thousand dollars to go towards the Improvements in the downtown once the Main Street project is done those improvements include wayfinding signs Five kiosks for the public as a visitor to coming into town Situational, where are they they are here? This is a little history of the area and then of their different places in town It includes some part benches it included some bicycle racks and It included plant arm Holders so that the period lighting that's coming in as far as mainstream can now have land post Plant arm holders on so those were all paid out. Those are included in the 2017 grant They were if you remember the Main Street project was behind a year because of I think it was the contaminated soils issue So it was put back a year. So we're now into 2020 we need to burn off that Respend all of that hundred thousand dollars in that grant We've had a couple of things that retreat tweaked but in that process between when we put the grant in three years ago and Last year when all the bids came in for the Main Street project The cost for the kiosks came in higher than were anticipated The cost for the wayfinding signs directional signs came in lower and the cost for the plant arm hangers came in at a dollar a piece Which was that they hadn't been spent out at all. So Now that we're in 2020 Those projects are going to be done But we're left with a shortfall for the kiosks which came in well over budget our net shortfall on that is 51,800 dollars which is on if did you all get the material that Carlos sent out on Friday and Request looking at it right now here. Yeah, so we're we're looking to seek Phase two of the downtown transportation fund grant to fund The extra cost that we didn't know of when the doc when the grant first came out We didn't have the opportunity to have the bid results in We're looking to add some additional trash and recycling receptacles that have been priced out by RW and the design committee We're looking at hanging plant baskets to go on those plant arm holders That RW will maintain Throughout the summer in the past our W has had barrels like half whiskey barrels along the sidewalks South Main well Main Street and then Sto Street, so those barrels are no longer going to exist Apparently people use them for waste receptacles. They were difficult to manage They found diapers in there and cigarette butts and cans and bottles So those aren't going to happen anymore We're looking at dog waste receptacles extra and one extra bike rack and I put down here one extra park bench above what we had in the 2017 grant and I was informed today. No, we're actually going to be putting in for two So there will be an adjustment on that the grant is due March 9th and We would like to include it'll now be in the ballpark of $69,800 to include those items the match that is required as for this grant we can use the Main Street project as a match or a portion of it and what we used in 2017 that everybody agreed upon we have a sign letter from the state were 10 lamp posts and 10 lamp posts were estimated by stand-tock to be to cost Approximately $10,000 a piece so 10 lamp posts times $10,000 $100,000 which is what we put in for Match last time around so there's like we're having more lamp posts So I need to request that you tell me what what it was we are not getting now because of the diapers and all that Okay, so are we still getting the five Recycling receptacles, so this is what we'd like to request in this grant application for 2020 So what what question about the Reese's what Barb said was going away were the whiskey barrel Planners okay that we currently have used for Years we're not going to be putting those out anymore. So it's not something that's coming out of the grant the planters that are in the grant will Replace if you will those yes, so my question I was just you know five trash recycling receptacles That's 2,000 bucks a piece I'm going to say they better be And the other question is the fifty one thousand eight hundred that's that's the cost overrun just for the way finding signs For way finding sign for kiosk and way finding signs And I don't have a picture of that a picture of the hanging flower basket There's no way to request from the grantee an amended application for the additional overrun or The hundred with thousand was kept Maximum okay Projects so you might get with the cap of a hundred thousand dollars so they fully anticipate that you know You might come back in to finish a project Thank you Any other questions? No, I would just comment that I'm on the design committee for revitalizing waterberry and we've been talking about trash and recycling for containers for Over ten years, maybe 15 so I'm very excited that we're finally going to get All right, if there's no more questions or comments you won't be on the board next to you We're talking about how much more money we have to put in the budget to empty the trash and it's like I think that's a new job for you I'm sure you I'm sure you'll do a very good job evaluating So if somebody would love to make a motion to approve the Application for the downtown transportation fund grant As written by barb, I will make a motion to approve the amendment as written the application the application as described Somebody be so kind to second that second Those in favor Say aye There's another page there. It's a resolution for the downtown transportation fund grant it What it requires is that the planning Commission had also reviewed the application. They did about two or three weeks ago There's was on the 27th of January and so Ken bellowos the chair of the planning Commission signed off and so now the grant source also asked that the select board Approved the resolution for the downtown transportation And authorize bill to sign the application So would somebody like to make that motion then please I'll make that motion The resolution the resolution Right bill to sign it. Yeah, her second bill is going to sign the grant you have to sign the resolution Motion is to sign the signing the resolution Second any further discussion? Okay, all those wish to approve please say aye. All right Okay Always a pleasure to see you Absolutely And that handout will basically say the mainstream Reconstruction project is about to start up again in April ish. It depends on the weather There's a public meeting scheduled for it's unfortunately. It's on st. Patty's day 17th and it will be in this room and it starts at 6 o'clock at night So it'll be six to eight and then let everybody go off and drink But the trans will be here the contractor will be here and they'll give an update of really what to expect in year two They're moving in closer into the core of the downtown. So there's going to be a lot of juggling and Probably a lot of merchants that are nervous about how accommodations might be made for businesses But the the contractors and v-trans is really made accommodations to try to make it as best as possible Locals will have to really step up and Are they ahead of schedule So in the big scheme of things with a two and a half year construction timeline They made some great progress last year and they're ahead of schedule on some items And they're hoping to have another excellent year at it, but it depends really how the weather goes it depends on any, you know Restrictions that the business corps may say you really don't want you to work during the day. You have to work at night If mark fryer were here you'd say you can't work at night. You have to work during the day So there's there's going to have to be a lot of juggling and figuring out how to best do this So that may put them back on to their normal Timeline of June 31st, but in the last year from now, they'll be doing landscaping and touch ups Yeah, we're a little early there so maybe we can jump to something different here I Appropriate to go through town meeting motions now or I would wait for Jeff to be here for okay, and that's why I asked Certificate of highway mileage. That's a pretty simple one So municipalities are supposed to certify their highway mileage class one two three and four mileage For whatever reason on, you know certificate of mileage for the year ending February 10th Why they pick February 10th, but that's the date so we have had no changes in 2019 from March 1st, I mean from from February 11th 19 through February 10th this year. We've had no no changes We have one point four ninety two miles of class one 7.94 miles of class two 39.61 class three And then the state has 18.462 which must include the interstate And then we have six point five nine of class four miles We have no scenic highways as designated through the ALT process so I would just ask if you would Make a motion to approve this and then you have to sign it as a kind of a heads up Question did you say we have no scenic highways? That's right What about the sneak what about 100 that's a state highway. Oh, okay So no town roads We will have a few changes next year Bill would have talked to me last week We're not including them in this But the state wants a better delineation of Where the road is that goes to the ice center? specifically, you know the town road that goes down to the ice center and then there's a there's a parking lot, but then there's the roadway that was for the old dump and All the way down to the cemetery Goes out beyond the parking lot into what we use as a material storage area. So they want to better delineate What is and is not highway there and then there's a few other small changes, but those are for Those are for next year. So we'll deal with those So if somebody's interested in doing so we can take a motion to approve their certificate of highway mileage as presented by bill Or 2020 I'll make a motion The bill Motion okay in further discussion None all those who wish to approve say aye. Hi Do you want to wait for probably don't need to wait for Jeff on the date of the next regular meeting? So your next Regularly scheduled meeting according to the calendar is March 2nd, but the night before town meeting We're going to review the motions tonight I'm not sure, you know, there'll be no more changes Carla's not able to be here on the second because the election is Ongoing she's got certain things to set up So I think in the past couple of years So it's really your choice but Used to be that we would go over the motions the night before town meeting but that's before we Started inviting Jeff the moderator to come to the meetings and have a conversation with us So it's either March 2nd or March 16th. It's really your choice Well, I don't know how the town meeting will go last year. We were there for many hours, so I wouldn't The first I can't understand why I Could go either either way, I don't know if we feel that we're ready after meeting with the moderator tonight Maybe we could punt I don't know if there's You know, I'm all able and willing to meet on that Monday, but I Think it's what happens probably tonight if we feel we're ready for a town meeting You can come back to it. You can decide after after leaves if you want Yeah, I was gonna see what we how we feel at the end of the meeting. That's why I didn't know Well, but that went on hold now, I guess You want to just jump into the coronavirus discussion real quick Bill says whatever I just wanted to bring it to the board's attention I've been kind of keeping an eyeball on what's been going on and that is I don't know if the rest of you have as well, but It seems like it's been pretty tough to contain Even with the fact that you know, the medical Support teams are wearing all the gear that they're wearing. It still seems to be Being passed on and now that they've brought home the Americans into the US I'm curious to know the the percentage of risk of that taking off here and didn't know if At some point keep an eye on this if we should be contacting Homeland Security to find out what their Game plan is on this thing Hopefully they're they've got an eye on it as well and I Just want to try to be proactive on it. It may end up society and going away completely here within the next month or two, but Important enough issue the fact that it seems to be a pretty big killer Health be the first place you Places Homeland Security and Department of Health would be the two gateway Places and I think they're going to notify us control I think the only issue could be is if we have someone who travels Overseas and winds up contracting the disease. It's a water bird resident that May put us on a higher state of alert, but I'm not I mean I See the news. I pay attention to it as much as anybody I think it's really concerning I heard today that I Know that the death rate for coronavirus is 2% versus 0.1% for the flu. It's just that so many more people get the flu that you know it kills You know 60,000 people 600 whatever the number was But I'm not sure us Contacting the Department of Health or Homeland Security Makes any sense. We have we have no role in it We are not we don't operate a medical facility We don't operate an ambulance Have a fire department that our first responders, but you know, I I think it's reasonable to be to be concerned but and I'm not saying it's not our problem, but What are we going to do with whatever information we get that we don't have anything? Anything any role to play no, I the only thing I guess I was asking is should we Somehow make them aware of the fact that that we have concern of it just to make sure that Find out where they are on it, you know just an informational thing Whether or not they they think that it's it is premature. I know I'm bringing this to the table a little prematurely but again based on what I've been seeing and maybe it's just the media that's that's overplaying it, but It seems like there's been a fair share of deaths out of it and Just trying to be proactive and stay on top of proactive to do what what do we do with the information they give to us You know bill I really don't know well, so I don't know I mean it's They'll probably tell us what if there's something yes, I that's the question. I'm asking If we had people in our town who had traveled to China and they come back here They need to you know put themselves in quarantine for two weeks that kind of thing, but I mean do we have any residents who? How would I know you have no control over that? There was a woman Interviewed on the radio who was had been in China and she's in New York across the lake and She had put herself She wasn't sick she doesn't have any symptoms, but she put herself in quarantine Professor at State University in New York, so she was just doing that for two weeks to be cautious and That kind of thing Yeah, it was just a conversation bill. That's all you know Looking to try to stay on top top of something that seemed to be Potentially getting out of hand They've suggested that it may end up being a pandemic and but whatever I Personally I'm gonna keep an eye on it Okay, we got our star here for the night So you've been we've been kind of working around your slot there Jeff so if you're ready you can come on up and Give us what for but to have you It is Pleasure to hear your dulcet tones down meeting. I don't have any New words of wisdom to offer. I think each of you has heard what I've had to say many many many times I Just want to stress that town meeting is the meeting that belongs to the Residents of the town it's their meeting to Find out what's going on ask questions and Aside from that that's the only spiel that I have to give so I'll just To make your time here a little more interesting I'll throw a question in your lap I Haven't read Robert's rules yet this year Hopefully I haven't changed The resolution here for the climate change initiative I Guess where do you see that going and how into the weeds? Yeah, so just to as a Reamble to Jeff we're talking about article nine right Chris correct. Yeah, and just to be clear article nine The select would agree to put the article on the warning Making several interested citizens go out and get a petition they were here back in November of December talked about it They were willing to you know work with me And we kind of crafted this language, but I just want I So we're all on the same page my take on article nine is that this is not a Proposal the select board are necessarily going to make the motion for this this I expect at least in my mind was a Motion that the select board I mean an article the select board agreed to put on the warning Not requiring a petition, but this is not a select board Resolution Somebody else is going to make that motion No, it's up it's up to the put it's not I know it's not our responsibility I thought I had removed the motion from your script, but no It does say to see if the town will direct the select board to establish a committee That or right, but to Chris's point You know, I think Chris is trying to get You know, what are we going to say? But I'm not sure if Kathleen Day makes this motion You would typically ask her if she wanted to speak to the motion right and then from there it goes to the broader audience and Conceivably the select board they want to engage in the dialogue, but they don't have to be right well, I think in the way town meeting works and the way that I've always run town meeting is I I'd say something like article 9 see if the town will direct the select board to establish a committee to assess Municipal officials and staff to implement the energy plan for the town of Waterbury Which was adopted by the select board on December 3rd 2018. What is your pleasure with respect to? Article 9 and then I'll look and see if someone raises their hand and if no one does and this and I will say this is sort of some difficulty that I have with the motions on 11 through 19 is You're not obligated to move something just because it appears on the warning and so I'll look around the room after I say what's your pleasure with respect to article 9 and There will be Potentially unless someone is right on top of it that will be a fairly pregnant pause and I can think of at least two members of the of the town that will be at the meeting That will simply move it because nobody else has but they're not obligated to certainly you're not obligated to and So someone raised their hands and Mr. Moderator and I'll say Ms. or Mr. and They'll say Hopefully they have a copy of the motion, but if not we'll sort of we'll work them through it and they'll make a motion and Hopefully for can merely for convenience sake. It'll be something that's pretty close to what we have here But it doesn't have to be they can Move just about anything that they want and depending upon how vague it is or how specific it is You know, I may help them. I may have some comments. I May say is there a second and Then if someone moves it then we'll move into the discussion and again, there's absolutely no obligation on your part to say a word You you may as individuals Have want to speak to it you may as on behalf of the board want to speak to it I don't know what your position is but I Think the only thing that I would say to you folks who are sitting up front is that Even more importantly than any other items that are on the warning This belongs to them because they have requested that it go on the warning and so I would suggest that You let everybody out there have their say and then you can jump in Doesn't you don't have to but I would I would I would if you want to say something then I would just request that you Be very cautious to play by the rules and not simply jump in because you're a member of the SWAT board Which happens on you know some of the motions with respect to budgets and I think that's That's understandable because you have a certain degree of knowledge that they don't have out there but let them do it let them carry the discussion and We all know who the handful of people are that will move to limit debate if it goes on and on and on and You know who they are. I know who they are We set forth at the beginning of the meeting Until you recognize with a moderator you can't simply shout out I moved to limit debate So when I see those Handful of people start getting antsy I'll look I'll look to you folks if you haven't talked yet and see if there's anything that you have to say Sure if we want to after some of this if there's sufficient discussion out there and we want to respond Say as an individual do we step down from dance and do that or I Think that's however you feel comfortable doing it You can always preface your remarks by saying Just because I'm sitting up here on the dais doesn't mean what I am about to say reflects Anything that the town or the select board may have in mind and then go on from there Or if you think that it's more appropriate for you to go around that's fine, too That's fine, too So a question when you when you talk about letting the public have their say What if during a portion of the conversation that one individual or another may bring up if there is a question or a possible response from a board member Before the conversation gets left behind and way into the weeds on something else Do we have the opportunity to respond before it becomes old? You know what I mean? I think you can and again, I we've had this conversation with the board a lot. I Think you can but I Recommend strongly recommend that unless someone has a specific question of the board You wait until it's your turn stale or not to give an answer to that question because a Lot of what people say when they're talking They ask it in the form of a question, but it's purely a rhetorical question They're not necessarily phishing for an answer because a lot of people will phrase their perspective When they're trying to advocate for a position in the form of a question and you know Simply by the question how they feel and they're not necessarily asking for a response. Yeah, and so I would it I would urge you to Exercise some restraint and then raise your hand and I'm not saying that That you can't raise your hand and well, you're the next hand up So I'll call on you, but if there are three or four others I may go one two three four and It's not going to be stale. I mean, I think you realize probably a topic like this could Become fairly extensive Based on what I understand from people's concern about it So I just didn't know you know, I think before we go up the deep end I mean what they're asking for the committee to look at the town's energy plan and And and see if we can come up with some ideas that are in sync with the state of Vermont's energy plan You know, I was just simply asking how far I know this kind of conversation Should we allow it to go? Well? You folks have known me for I don't know how many years and You know That unless someone really veers off topic. I feel philosophically it's important for them to have their say and the one the issue that I think of the most and smile the most about is the meeting that we had on the gun control issue and I can't tell you the number of people that came up to me after the meeting and said two things One is thank you for the discussion and the other was We appreciate your position on gun control and I'm going what I Said that to myself Because a lot of these people thought because I was letting the conversation go I had a particular position and Nothing could have been further than the truth, but I think the reward for doing that was People felt like they were heard they didn't particularly like the way I ultimately ruled on it But they still felt like they were heard and that's why it's important to let them talk and as I said Unless we really veer on course off course I'll tend to let people have their say and I also know and we all know who those Five six or seven people out that are out there that will keep me on track By trying to get acknowledged so they can limit debate and It's sort of a game we play But it's important to let people if they want if people want to wallow in the weeds as Frustrating as it can be if people want to wallow in the weeds My feeling is it's their meeting Let them wall Yeah, if they show up, you know, I think I'm speculating that a fair amount of people will show up simply because of this article That being the case, I think they're you know, we're obligated to allow them Reasonable time without becoming Ridiculously redundant. Yeah. Well, I'm not afraid to say I think we've heard that comment before and I remember again another meeting very Specifically it was the very first item on the agenda We'd barely elected the moderator and we start we had the police debate and we had something like 500 people at that meeting and that was some of the best civilized adult conversation that I've heard in a public meeting and Wish we could have more of it That was the second place to be right the first one Yeah, yeah, that was the second one. Yeah, the state police. Yeah, that's good. So to your point Jane I guess I'm gonna question why You know As little or as well as I think I might know you you I have to think that this Particular article is something of great interest to you. I just got the impression that you're Interested in chopping it to a committee and and letting it go from there I think no, I just read I've just read the what the motion is and I it doesn't I mean I I Feel like what I'm sensing from you is that you think this could get really out of control No, no, I'm at I'm absolutely happy to have Reading this and I'm thinking I I'm saying to myself we have a bit of familiar Fill your familiarize myself with both the town's energy plan and the state state of Vermont's Comprehensive energy plan just probably be helpful just to know what's in them and I don't know just see this where this goes well, I guess I Thought your I thought your point Jane was that the only thing that the public is going to know is when they Is reading the warning? Article 9 just asks if the board will establish a committee to assist in implementing the energy plan this motion They won't see the whole the second part and nobody has that, you know, I mean, I'm not saying nobody knows anything about it, but If if you read that the warning It doesn't say anything about climate change. It doesn't say anything about You know, yeah How we're gonna maintain it pretty much when just just read it it pretty much concluded on the third line after the town of Waterbury You said the date December 3rd town adopted That's what the warning says. That's the warning says I mean I can but the usual way the way the voters of Waterbury are accustomed to doing these things especially if they haven't seen the motion is I think what you're gonna get Mr. Rotem rater mr. Moderator, I move that the town direct the select board to establish a committee and read the rest of the warning and I'll say Okay, did you have anything specific in mind? Well, I guess they hadn't thought about that Committee for what? So so I'm a little confused just maybe I it's just been a while, but The the second two-thirds of this all about the similar goals and be resolved and Basing on the town's energy plan is that's been written up here As just for our information. Is that the actual motion? We think There's a high degree of likelihood that From what's in italics on your page from I move To the the town's plan The expectation is Somebody who is here in November asking for this motion this article to be on the warning We'll make the motion and it's pretty likely this is going to be the motion. I sat with three of them and you know When they were here that day And you may have been here that You know You know Kathleen day her initial Motion or her initial statement was something like in the town will do Everything it can to prevent You know climate change or whatever it was And I said well if you make a motion like that that that's pretty Drawed because what's everything? You know, does it mean if there's a? all electric Dump truck out there that cost five hundred thousand dollars and we have to buy it So they agreed to come in and so there were three or four of them that sat down And this is what they came up with now If Jeff recognizes the wrong person, they may be a different motion And then we know the right person is you know, there may be an amendment Yeah, yeah, to me. This is very innocuous. I think What's here is fine, and I'm kind of in bills court is That's my concern being on the board is getting something that's so unwieldy That the town directs us to buy about five hundred thousand dollar dump trucks that we could get a two hundred thousand dollar dump truck You know, I think we're gonna take Anything anything in reason. I think we can look at Renewable alternatives in our operations, but I don't think it's a good policy to have the board bound by saying Absolute, you know these absolutes and that's would that'd be my concern Depending upon how it's presented The motion the motion kind of it's what we're seeing here is a sample motion. I think that's fine Well, I think through the conversation it'll be You know these specific things that concerns that you just mentioned and what Bill just mentioned Will be pointed out and people are reasonable enough to understand that we can't handcuff ourselves to costs that we can't afford That will you know certainly do everything in our Help with this issue Any other way we can besides bankrupting ourselves. Well, let me just let me just play out a scenario for you I Rep I recognize someone and Someone says well, mr. Moderator I move that the town instruct the members of the select board to purchase only Electric vehicles regardless of the cost That's the motion, okay Someone quickly goes a second and I'll think about it for a minute To see if that's a motion that I feel that I can accept all right because it has to be germane to the to the article in the warning and germane is Fairly broad and so let's say that I allow the motion as seconded and we have some discussion You're gonna get some people that are out there and Do you really mean that the next dump truck that the town buys has to be three million dollars and if someone out there doesn't Certainly Chris is gonna ask the question just to make the comment and this is what I mean You know when some people will ask a question and it really is a comment And you say to the person that made the motion Do you really think that this town can afford to spend three million dollars on an electric grader? I don't even know if they exist, but I assume that they probably do You stated in the form of a question what your position is and The townspeople are gonna get some idea that okay. Well, that's the next ten years worth of capital budgeting and Perhaps it doesn't mean that and then Is anybody open to some kind of an amendment or or some clarification on what the motion would be This is fairly new or if not new Somewhat unique to the town of Waterbury because we don't have a lot of motions in this community on political activities Which is what what? This is heading towards Motions on political activity like, you know, you you name the issue We don't have a lot of and that can get into some pretty interesting Well Gun control some pretty interesting discussion and would just Have to see where it goes and you know, you Not so much you folks as the folks out there, but you vote to you know You're trusting that the moderator is going to keep this railroad on the tracks for the duration of the meeting and We'll see what it goes as they say But it's gonna it's gonna make for an enjoyable meeting. Sure. No, and I'm looking forward to it actually And I was just looking at how the articles position and what came after it article 10 is unless I'm missing something That's the first of the special articles. That's the end of the line, right? There's there's a number after article 10, but they're all they're all special Right. Yeah, I understand the one with the goes to what 15 20 But they're all just consisting of special article So at that point in the game this article 9's in this topic is kind of positioned right so that people aren't bound who don't want to be involved in this article to stay unless they've got some Attachment to one of these special articles people don't Believe that there's an issue or don't have time or don't want to talk about this Won't miss anything else important For the prior articles because We've already we'll have already gone through those so that's that's good the way that this was stuck in here And this is sort of gratuitous on my part But if I've been here when you were putting the warning together and if you'd asked me I would have said let's put article 9 at the very end and Keep people here and maybe help the folks that are serving dinner get some more patrons After article 10 No, put it after article just before article 19 article 18.5 But I'm wondering just how many people that's why I say I think it's positioned well because I think once we get to the special articles You see a lot of people exit because I know that's why I'm saying it would be nice to have it at the towards the end So that they'll stay And that was one of the biggest criticisms of the gun control thing because it wasn't warned and It was an important piece that all of a sudden cropped up out of nowhere I mean six or seven people left in the audience this at that point. I still think it's well positioned because Not everybody has to stay for the special articles obviously but I do think they'll stay for this and At least it's timed in this game That people aren't wore out by then, you know, I think by the time you get through 10 to 20 special articles they're like had enough but So, yeah, I'm happy where it is I'm looking forward to the discussion Just a question that I have on article 8 if you decided which one you're going to move Because I noticed that the set Was actually wondering that to slightly different than what we've seen in the past you would go through that I Need to read them off or what would you like Bill? Oh Draw straws Mark's not here. Why is it always when we go to do this? There's an odd banning out odd man out here Like I've said in the past you guys pick whatever you want and I'll take up the slack. I don't Get one or another Yeah, I mean who who wants article one take it I'll start to start the game off article two or Articles two and three and we'll pass all that sort too. I'll do four. I'll do four. Oh No, no, I'll do five. I'm sorry Build this five Thanks, Mark Okay Yeah, so article eight is the budget article in years past we have done Eight first and then what is listed as seven second? but Carla and I talked about it and I think it's better to do seven first because if for whatever reason the Town decides it doesn't want to borrow it may impact How much you want to spend so article seven is for the capital improvement plans the capital projects? Which includes an amount not to exceed three hundred thousand dollars to finance the expenditures article eight The traditional way that we have voted a budget is the first one here where we someone moves to spend a certain amount of money for general expenses and the special articles and then an amount for highways and an amount for a library and Then those special reserve funds and at the end that the select board be authorized to issue bills for property taxes in the sum of 4,142,000 Plus what's voted on in articles 10 through 18? That's the traditional way that we've done it and What you get that way is a definite amount of? Tax dollars that you're going to raise and then come July when we set the grand list You take that amount of money and you divide it by whatever the grand list is and it comes out to a tax rate We think the tax rate is going to be about 55 cents If you do the second option here, which we did At least one year the year after the flood We actually set a tax rate on the grand list as opposed to a set dollar amount because We knew that grand list was going to be dropping We had a reasonable expectation and We were hoping that we would actually raise a little bit more money to help us build a Fund balance if we set a tax rate rather than the tax amount so during the discussion that you had a couple of meetings ago when you decided that you wanted to have You know Borrow a little bit less than I had proposed and a tax rate of a of a four cent increase If you decide that you want to rate that you want to have a tax rate of 55 cents Up to 55 cents. You can say it that way if you want to Whatever the grand list is you multiply it by 55 cents and you come up with money and my I Couldn't tell the other day when we met whether you were hoping that We could raise this amount of money and that you were hoping for a higher grand list So the tax rate could be a little bit lower or if you were saying We want a four cent tax increase because we want to put money Into the coffers for next year because the budget as we have proposed it this year, especially in the capital funds You know, we don't We don't have to borrow anywhere near three hundred thousand dollars if we're going to spend two million two hundred and eighty one thousand in article seven and break even the borrowing of three hundred thousand dollars Financing some of the projects in the equipment will allow us to have a Fund balance of some reasonable amount going into next year So it's really your choice if you choose the first option Then you're basically saying if the grand list grows More than we think it might our tax rate might be fifty four cents or fifty four and a half cents instead of fifty five If you want a fifty five cent tax rate regardless of the grand list Then you do the second one. It doesn't make any difference to me. We have used both in the past So article seven right now establishes a fund balance of what going into next year in the capital funds Yeah, something like that about two hundred and seventy two two hundred and seventy Somewhere in the two seventy range Chris two seventy two five hundred So, you know And that's why I said before if the voters authorized spending not in article seven But say, you know, we only want you to borrow a hundred thousand or nothing You can still pretty much do everything that you wanted to do You just would go into the year after that with nothing in the bank so the Particle eight is just meant So you can have flexibility and I don't care which one you do the dollar amount one is the one that we normally do but we have done Taking the option to set a tax rate from the grand list at least once and maybe twice after I read Bill if let's say someone amended Article seven because someone from the board is going to move it right if someone amended article seven So that it read not to exceed a hundred thousand dollars Yeah, then would it not make sense then to move the second article? I would think so so you so wait and wait and see what if anything happens to article seven before you make the Decision to go with the first one on the second one Yeah, that's what you're saying leave in those two as an option until That article seven has been settled right and I think I think that's a good suggestion But I also think it's helpful right now To get your sense of what you're hoping for I couldn't tell after the last meeting I think wanting the tax rate to go up for cents or we use simply saying Would prefer the tax rate to go up a little bit more than I had recommended at the meeting Which was between two and three cents and I had some more borrowing So what you have to settle amongst yourself right now is are you hoping to have a budget and have The lowest tax rate possible to allow that budget to work And if that's the case you want to do the first option If you want to have the tax rate go up for cents even if you only needed 3.2 cents You take the second option I lean towards going with the lowest tax rate possible. So if the grand list allowed it have a lower tax rate You can get the money from that. I have my opinion, but I'll wait to hear from everybody else first my thought originally was that We kind of split the difference between borrowing and asking You know either when you set a 55 cent tax rate, that's a you know, that's an ask And then a borrowing on on top of that is it's just something that we're asking permission to do and I thought When we were talking about that five cent or six cent or whatever it was I Think that was kind of a middle of the road It certainly won't get us up to where we would need To be able to get ahead on a lot of the projects we want to get ahead on But it was it was using our financial position, which is pretty good right now I mean we're we're Financially in a really good position in this town. So we have Barrowing capabilities But you know, it's it's it's also within our purview to have an ask So that that was The second one And the second one is worded so it still allows the board to hedge its bets because it says Tax rate on the town's grand list not to exceed 55 cents per hundred. So in July Circumstances change you could say well, you know The grand list is this it's gonna, you know, what if it if the grand list goes up? 3% I'm hoping it goes up one and a half percent, but I've done all my numbers on 1% But if it far exceeds what we wanted to do, you know, if you did the second one you could Still ratchet it down. It's not to exceed. Whereas the other one is you raise four million four hundred and twenty-one thousand whatever did 142 thousand flexibility I take this yeah, I'm with That I walk I always like flexibility. I think it gives option to the board the most flexibility and it's not rigid and I think Your opinion is the tiebreaker here Chris Well, I'm with a time maker the time I understand I understand kind of where we're at on Our infrastructure problems and I'm a little bit worried about what next year is going to bring as far as Having sufficient funds next year. I was hoping that when I made that comment about The grand list hoping that it was going to be reasonably substantial I Guess to to make the pain a little less on the 55 cents but I'll be honest with you to have to have that surplus add to this surplus of 270 Fund balance going into next year is only going to make next year easier I was kind of thinking that realistically grand list would only be you know, one and a half percent Beams to run kind of that Yeah, I think it's That's more like you know one to one and a half Yeah, and if we came out of this with additional funds from the grand grand list put it in here put it into next year's you know surplus that's what you want to call it and Next year we may not have to ask for for so much So that means you're leaning toward the second option That sounds like it. Yep Because in somebody may throw a wrench into you know any of this during town meeting It's their call. Obviously. This is what we're suggesting but I think we've got good argument to Prove the reason we did what we did Right, and you do have the option to Have it less than 55 cents when it comes time to the way it's written It doesn't have to be 55 not to exceed 55 In the however many years I've been as the moderator I can't recall a time When the public has even amended this article Much less voted it down. You know, I was thinking about that the other day Just wants to add money for the recreation director Well, that was the other way. That's right That's going the other way, but you're right to reduce it Yeah, it's Funny because I was thinking about a scenario the other day that I wouldn't mind happening To see it happen even though it ties into part of our add-on to the Agenda here tonight the paving projects. I don't know that we need to talk about that Right now even though it it plays into part of what this is all about Yeah, I was wondering to myself if somebody was gonna say this is two damn much, you know My concern is this and I'll say it right out It's my opinion that previous boards Didn't focus on the infrastructure problem because at the time it may not have been quite in the condition that it is now But now it is in the condition that it is now Mike and I took a ride today and Took a look at some of our issues and it's concerning and I Just hope that the town's people are willing to and I'm the first to not want to raise taxes That's the you know, I hate raising taxes raising the tax rate But like I've said before we're in a situation that We don't have any escape route we've got to face the problems that we're dealing with and it's going to require money and If we can manage it right and get through it hopefully we'll Pay dividends on the other end by having either stabilized taxes or possibly we could hope for reduce taxes tax rate That's everybody's wish to always You never Very seldom see it happen that they're always going like this and be nice to I mean we did we had three years of stable tax rate And we accomplished a lot. So we've got a you know, the town's people need to give themselves credit for at least that Short term of consistency And You know, I was warned actually by my daughter because we've had a discussion there When we were setting the tax rate at 45 cents for three years in a row there. She said you're setting yourself up for a Bhutani ass, you know But at the time we were managing to accomplish a great deal at that tax rate. So we weren't Procrastinating on things that needed to be done by keeping that tax rate there. We were gaining substantial ground And it wasn't until we decided to really start to delve into facing our infrastructure problems that we now and of course the police department that was huge but Delving into our instructor problems, which is requiring the additional funds. So Because you know Jeff alluded to it, but And I think it's the best way for us to approach the public safety issue, but that police department is a I mean We were accomplishing a lot keeping the tax rate stable Allowing the village to take care of the the public safety and when we had to Step up for the plate because the village went away to to address that Well, that siphoned a whole bunch of money that could have gone Into the infrastructure that you're concerned about and it's hard to go You know whole hog Grab onto something brand new that's three hundred and sixty five thousand dollars and Also ante up more for other things. So, you know that kind of Caused us to shift down into second year again. So to speak to kind of catch up a little bit and you know We're it's going to take a couple of years to To see that Level out right because you know, we're into the second full year of that now, but if that didn't happen There's three hundred sixty five thousand dollars that could have gone toward paving or bridges that we just can't do all at once Because of that circumstance and fortunately for us the scenario came along that we were able to hire just the town State police and not go into a full-blown police department with no facility to house them We saved ourselves a ton of money. So we got we drove drew the You know the long straw in this case By not by not that's what I said. It's it's the result how we're dealing with it I think is the best scenario for us, but don't When we're talking to the constituents out there about what's happened to the tax rate and your desire for infrastructure I'm not blaming it on the police, but it's just you need to kind of connect the dots and say yeah, but we also had to bite off this Element that we didn't ever have to deal with That's part of I think we bit it off at a substantially decreased amount You know, that's the that's the upside of that whole thing. You know, we got out of that on Relatively unscathed for now for now for now Let's hope it stays that way There Okay I Think the first option Gives us no options That's why I'm against really the first option. I think we as much as I'm for Taxes being Minimized and you know, there are a lot there are a lot of people hurting in this town And I want to try to keep the tax rate minimal I think option two still gives us some flexibility whether we want to go low Whether we want to increase and deal with some of the infrastructure problems So I think you know depending upon what revenues coming in and where we were at Gives us so much more flexibility and So so based on that swinging back to Jeff's point Is there a need to keep these two scenarios here? Because how do we decide? well, I think it's completely up to you if One way or the other that you know Option two is better regardless of what happens Article seven then just tell us now and we don't we don't have to kind of keep the balls in the air Option one gives us no fall back Right, but just understand that option one, you know, I've been here for 31 or 32 years and except for one or two years. It's always been in the form of option one There's a good chance nobody even asks why are you setting a tax rate as opposed to a dollar amount, but just understand it's different than usual well, there may be some people but I You know, I think if it's presented the right way, I think it Think option two goes a lot. It's a better way to run Okay, yeah, I just I guess I'm concerned about at the town meeting Depending on what happens with article seven The board has to all of a sudden huddle to say which one of these do we go with? That might be a little odd So I think we'll just take two Because I think the biggest question will be the amount of borrowing that's going to be I think they Question, okay, I can live with that Article nine is hopefully the public I'll do article 10. It's a lot of talking I think would be good for you now You said it I didn't but good one. Well now you get your chance In front of a whole gymnasium full of people That's great. Good Thank you. Thanks for coming in as always Jeff and I look forward to see you there. I mean Right home safe. Yeah, it's really greasy That's letting getting here Oracle eight then we're gonna take out the first option and just go with Already I have a question about the energy plan the town energy plan Which I know is not going to be in the movement in them article nine But it's on our website the town's website. Yeah, I think it's part of the town Okay, I was trying to find it on my phone We're all set with that then We are here So you were I guess we're on the manager's items well letter D D deck next date on the regular meeting Well, yeah, you're right. So it sounds like based on our Discussion that we've had we're kind of all set. I think you're all set. Yeah, yeah Right so Jane you get your wish right now Boy, okay last on the list is the manager's items Which would you like to take first bill? Parking first This is just a kind of an FYI I Doubt anything will come up. There's nothing that can come up as a binding issue at town meeting, but I monitor front porch forum and there continues to be a lot of talk about Parking on front porch forum and then I Got an email back February 9th from a person who lives over on Randall Street and He evidently saw One of my responses in front porch form to the parking issue and he said I'm hoping that you can clarify something for me You said that we don't have parking enforcement because the taxpayers haven't improved it Fair enough We mean the town had the same conversation five years ago at a select board meeting and it is what it is I get it. Nobody wants to increase taxes. There's a clearly a Divide between the downtown historic district residents and everyone else I Assume he means people in the downtown would like to be some enforcement and everybody else that want to pay for it Then he goes on to say it's not true that there's no parking enforcement this the ordinance bans parking on the street overnight from November to April from midnight to 6 a.m. And he points out that is enforced and I just wanted you to understand It is enforced The ordinance that we have the parking ordinance to select board adopted after the village went away Incorporated Elements that were in the old village parking ordinance one of which was overnight parking in the winter on streets the ordinance gives the manager the public works director the highway For a person as well as police officers the ability to enforce that by having vehicles towed when we had a police department on Nights where it wasn't snowing if you were out there parked on the street You'd probably just get a ticket but on a night like tonight We're snowing and if it was two o'clock in the morning, they might have a towed So we are towing cars The person who wrote the letter goes on to say That he believes that we should solve the parking problem by simply Towing all the cars that are that are parking longer than the two hours if they're parking on the places and streets that are Where they shouldn't be he points out Elm Street Elm Street was a one-lane road from noon until midnight cars were parked near the sidewalk on both sides of the road Into both main and Randall Street and he says somebody's got to get injured. Why can't the same company? Pulled cars that are illegally parked as they do for night time parking now We don't have that option the ordinance is not written in that manner in a daytime fashion you know so it's and and that's not a good way to enforce Parking violations anyway, but I just want to bring it up that You know the issue is still out there I'm not sure that this is the year that we want to try to enforce this with Main Street being reconstructed and everything else But as we move into the future, I you know, it is probably something that will need to be Addressed there was a Anybody see Alonzo Perry's letter to the editor He's looking for a job, I guess It was funny the editor of the newspaper actually sent it to me and said I think somebody's applying for a job They're by writing a letter to us here it is so anyway In case it comes up at town meeting I just wanted you to be Prepared for it. I Doubt anybody's going to make a motion to add money to the budget to hire a parking enforcement officer I do think probably at some point in time. It's something that we need to do There would be some revenue Generated that would offset some of the the costs of that parking enforcement officer I was hoping mark would be here tonight as a business owner But anyway enough about that Could I add something? I think there's going to be probably a 90% probability that that's going to be discussed in other business. I Personally have said this before Complaint, you know, I would if anything I don't want to see Our tax dollars go to an enforcement position But I think we can have some sort of I don't know how it would be done what the logistics, but some sort of a neighborhood watch and To me the first people I'd be looking for for 10 hours each a week would be the complainers on Frank Ford forum, and I know that sounds very flip, but I'm very serious about hey you want to do something about it You know go go to town It's just like if you think there are problems in town run for you know a select board seat You know do some something else, so I think it is important I think we have to have some response You know again because I think the question is going to be asked with how much Discussion that has been on French port forum, and I just want to commend you I think you've done a very good diplomatic job Responding to you folks I try to stay out of the fray because I probably would get myself in trouble But you've been very diplomatic Thank you, and and I don't want to be perceived to be throwing cold water on your idea about volunteers and Mike I think there is a place for volunteers. I'm not sure The you don't have to be a law enforcement officer to be a parking enforcement officer, but when you're out there when you're writing tickets There is an opportunity for people to get angry and to get in your face I'm not sure a volunteer ticket writers are really what we want to encourage. I Know unless somebody amends the motion The budget to allow us to hire a parking enforcement officer, which I don't think will happen But I think especially when the Main Street project finishes It might be something that we have to revisit at some point Maybe we should start just at this point with some written warnings to people That there's a two-hour Time I think it sends a real bad message to the business community if we start towing vehicles just for I know We can't but I think that would just be a stupid thing to do it would discourage Okay, well, and I'll just shove my plug in here I'm certainly not going to advocate for taxpayers to be footing the bill on on Violators of the parking parking ordinance Like I said before I'm going to push for Fees finds whatever you want to call them to equal the cost of having that Person on duty to do those that patrolling It's not the innocent taxpayers responsibility to pay for Irresponsible people so Monthly parking our monthly police reports So Carla put these at your place We haven't talked about them for a couple of months now I Did send out an email to the tenant white today Suggesting first I suggested a day in March this the third Monday in March for him or The troopers or all of them to come here and address the select board just it's nice every You know once or twice a year to see them so you folks can ask questions and I I purposely suggested March rather than now simply because You know, we'll have at least one new select board member in March And it's possible that there could be two New police officers select board members. I'm sorry So anyway, Carla pointed out to me that the meeting on March 16th as a pretty lengthy agenda already having to do with Main Street, so I Retracted that invitation and I've asked them maybe to come the first meeting in April As we get closer to that I'll confirm with lieutenant white and it will get on the agenda at some point But there's two reports here one is First and second quarters of 2019 that's the state's first and second quarters. It's actually of their FY 20 which The year goes their fiscal year goes from July 1st to June 30th. So It's our third and fourth quarters July through December and you can see that They had 685 calls in that period Broken down between property incidents disputes service assists traffic incidents and you can see that the service assists and I'm not sure everything that goes into service assists But those are non-criminal activities and public information requests Both for the July through December and for the January the month of January those service assists Are quite high in the July through December. It's the highest percentage of anything in The January period. It's close second to traffic incidents at 42 percent and the The amount of Calls in January at 72 were a little less than the average that we had through July through December. I think that Is probably pretty typical that there's a lot less traffic on the roads during the winter months and You know, they don't have quite as much Going on as they do in the summer and especially through foliage season They appear to be If you look at the pie chart on the second page the blue and orange where We see the percentage of calls that are taken by the resident troopers versus the middle-sex troopers in January It's significantly higher 62 percent by the resident troopers to 38 percent Whereas the six-month period at the end of July at the end of 2019 was Much more 50-50 with the middle-sex troopers actually taking out a few more calls I think that Can be explained by the fact that the troopers that we have on Now Have not been on leave. They haven't been on National Guard duty which happened in the fall and sometimes so I think they've been on the road more of the time in the in the recent weeks as opposed to What has happened? Through the last six months of last year So it's very much a similar pattern to what we've seen over the course of this contract the The line chart that's on the third page of the December July through December It's a little hard to figure out because there's two blue lines that are very similar but the top line is the total service calls and the bottom blue line is the motor vehicle complaints and Although motor vehicle complaints Traffic incidents is 30% of the High chart it is kind of the lowest number here, but the other the other lines kind of milled together in the Properties disputes But I think it would be good to have the troopers Lieutenant white Hopefully the lieutenant one of the troopers can come to the meeting, but that's their call I would just remind you We have From the first of this year We have 18 months left on this contract 12 months of 2020 and then the first six months of 2021 so It will probably be in the September-October time frame when I reach out to the state to see what their intention is this this contract was Basically sold as a pilot project with water break And it would be evaluated after the contract period I know there is a bill in the legislature senator White from Windsor County. I believe Jeanette white She has a bill in If past would prohibit the state from entering contracts of municipalities I saw her at local government day the other day She told me not to worry about it. It wasn't going anywhere. Nobody else agreed with her, but She's the chairperson of that committee in the Senate, and I testified there a couple years ago before we had this contract and She was advocating against it at that point And I said, well, I don't know why you'd want to tie your hands Why would you if you don't want to enter into the contract just? Say you don't want to enter into the contract but to put it in law that you can't do it That's a pretty big hurdle to get over if you ever wanted to change your mind She feels strongly that the sheriffs should do much more policing and I said well depends on what county you're in Nothing against the Washington County Sheriff, but they're not really in the business of wanting to do real police work They do some traffic control and do have some small contracts with they used to have some contracts with the Valley Towns But that was mainly for traffic control They don't do criminal work And she said well we could Put it in law that they have to do it. I said well again that that's that's a whole different issue But for right now This works well for watery. I think it works well for the state and Would like to see it continue. I think from what I've heard from the board through the contract to this point that the select board is Pretty happy with the current situation and would like to see the contract Extend that if possible when the time comes if that's different I know there'll be a different set of people here after the next town meeting, but if that's different The board should start talking about it sooner rather than later because if we don't if we can't go forward it leaves us again with with nothing and then potentially worse alternatives, so just As we go through the next year, this is something that will percolate to the top as we get toward the end of this year As the state indicated any kind of an increase potential No, this this contract was written for a The set fee It's 300. It's basically it's a thousand dollars a day $365,000 and You probably saw in front porch form there were some people that were thinking the state was getting rich on this contract and oh my god, this is Huge expense and then you know if you just do a little math and say okay the village before it it Went away had two officers and two officers at this rate and the insurance and blah blah the villages Budget for two officers was almost exactly the same as as this and we don't have near the administrative Yeah And I want to use the word headaches, but we don't have the administrative Responsibility that we had before so it's a much I Think it's a much better position for the time to be in we also looked You know that study committee looked at what other towns were paying and this is really a good deal for us I mean some of these towns were paying a lot more money for their town police services and We were on the low end. So I think we're pretty lucky And there's a lot more fluent connectivity Fact that we've got the state police and Rules of the state for the most part. Well, we're lucky to the middle sex is pretty close That's what I mean good coverage Anyway, that's all I have Chris So the last topic there might kind of put that on the Oh, that's right, okay So this is We're getting close to the point in time where we're going to need to do some tax Anticipation borrowing just to pay our current expenses for Mike We don't get any tax money, which is you know, 85 90% of our revenue until August and then November and You know, we use money that's in the bank until we don't have any more And then we've got to borrow money. So we're getting close. I will be working with the with our bank soon To get a line of credit from the bank But in the in years past I have recommended to the select board and the board has agreed We're possible to borrow money from EFUD as opposed to the bank EFUD has some money They probably don't have quite as much that will take us all the way through to the to the time when we get taxes in but We pay them about the same interest rate that we pay the bank It's not a huge savings for the town, but the money does stay local and it benefits them. So I would just like the select board to authorize me when Necessary or if necessary to do tax anticipation borrowing from the Edward Farrar utility district That motion second that motion any further discussion We do most almost all of our banking from people's United Yeah Just a comment there you mentioned and I was thinking about this today because there was a Discussion on on the last talk program there on the radio the last what talk program here Equal time. Yeah It revolved around the climate change issue, but one of the discussions was I believe it was What do they call the in-state banking system public? Is it public banking? It's yeah. Yeah, and they had Discussed maybe starting something like that At the State House few years back if you I don't know if you remember the discussion about yeah And the gal was saying that if we had that type of system in our states You'd have more money to put towards The interest would go towards Helping with the climate issue because of the Resource would be there the additional resource and it's similar and I thought about our borrowing from ourselves, you know It's helped us Through a number of years and it's been a good thing. So It's a good example of what what could be done. So That was all I had So motion been made and seconded I guess If I want to approve say hi Hi All right now the last Item on the agenda paving projects So the other day I went up to Maggie's way just to look at a couple of projects that I had Talked to people about last year to see if they'd come to fruition if there are still available projects and Of course when I drove up Maple Street, I really got and I just kind of put it along I see the state trooper behind me there You come up behind me there by the town shed and I was just going 20 miles an hour And he veered off went up Loomis Hill, and I just continued up Maple Street But I got to take a pretty good look at that condition of that road I don't know if you've been up it lately, but wow But then I turned on the guiled hill And I said to myself holy cow even this road has For the short period time period that it's been paved has started to show some pretty reasonable degradation Especially on the downhill. Yeah. Yeah, it's that one spring area is The problematic spot I noticed a lot of spider cracking there on the flat area before you get to I forget the old man's name there that owned that white white nice white house and the red burn there But anyway the road in itself is is starting to deteriorate fairly quickly And then the other day I had to deliver machine up to Perry Lee and the only way I could get there Was the paved hill? Because there wasn't The conditions weren't right on the dirt road for me to haul my truck and trailer So I had to I went up and checked the paved section of Perry Hill, and it was pretty much bare But even the upper part of that is just crumbling to no end lot of big heaves in it and Just really falling apart and I know that that project has it's on its what fifth year or Maybe six So I started to become frustrated With the fact that we've tried to make you know Substantially bigger steps towards recovering our Haved road problems, and it seems like it's a losing battle and So I called up Mike and Said do you want to take a little short trip and take a look at some of our failing? Haved infrastructure so we did we took a little drive today and and I Went down and visited high street because I hadn't been there in a while and Of course he was with me and Of course the minute you turn on to high street you can visually see The difference in the asphalt color being one And then a condition two of those two sections one with the foam and one without And we actually went up and got out of the vehicle and walked and talked a little bit I Know that I explained to Mike kind of what took place at on high street Experimental effort Which resulted in the use of sheet foam and using Hamilton engineering's Specifications of going down two feet Which ended up you know kind of biting us in the ass because it got into soils that were Far inferior than what they anticipated and the result was additional costs So having explained to him The benefits To spray foam versus sheet foam We talked a little bit and at some point before paving projects begin Maybe the town would consider an experimental section of road using she spray foam At a lot less depth than what was done on high street Just to get some form of a cost comparison As to how it will fare out Because I really after My personal drive and then the drive we took today. I'm more convinced that If we can somehow try to make efforts To eliminate the problem that's causing so much cost and destruction to our roads that we should Consider it so that's kind of Just my conversation My I'm not here to To speak for or against what your proposal is you're the select board and you can you know dictate what will happen And again not making any value judgments That's fine We have a certain amount of money set aside for paving. We want to do certain segments of road and if we do foam the money is going to run out before the Pavement is going to be done so That's perfectly fine If that's what the board decides to do I think it'd be good to talk with Woody and Alec as we get closer to the time when we're going to do it To see you know if we're going to choose a segment of road When does it make sense? You know where does it make sense in places that we Don't have water and sewer lines underneath maybe those are the places that make most sense to use it because there's a less Of a chance that you're going to have to dig it up for something. You're only going to have to dig it up for a cover Whereas you know, it's one of the reasons why We were even skeptical on High Street I know we had to do the foam board as opposed to the spray foam because of the timing in the whole nine yards but When you put that foam on top of roads where you've got old water and sewer mains you may end up having to dig through it, but It all comes down to money It's it's the kind of pay me now pay me later philosophy and if you want to put foam underneath Just understand you're going to pay less length of road. That's all. Yeah. Yeah Do we have an idea how much more expensive it is? 20% You know, I had those numbers at one time Jane, but they kind of got lost in the in the You know to my recollection spray foam is about Anywhere from two two dollars and fifty cents to three dollars a square foot That's just a number that's been in the back of my head For a long time and the reason I say three dollars a square foot because it was closer to Two to two fifty a few years back. So I suspect, you know, it may have increased a little bit So the rest of it is You know something that probably can be fairly easily figured out But what I was going to suggest If the board is interested We'd have to warn the meeting but maybe perhaps after the new boards established After town meeting While we still have plenty of frost in the ground that we take a site visit and Talk about this and Look at the conditions of the roads, you know High Street the section that was done with foam even though it did cost Extra money because of the issue that they ran into which I believe I believe could have been eliminated That road hasn't budged that section has not moved I Did point out as I did when I went to the village of Essex They had a section a road that was 12 years old and the only crack in that road was where there was a manhole cover and the only crack in High Street was where there was a Shut off for a water valve and then the crack only was a foot and a half on either side And it's simply because that's the weak point in the road There was no heaving at all. It was just a stress crack Which is typical but other than that that road has not moved a fraction I'm far from a world expert, but I am a good money guy and I know What expenses are and and I'm not saying is I don't build you may have alluded Maybe we need to do some test sections, you know to see what What foam can do? I think from what I saw in High Street Not only will we benefit, you know, it's going to cost more but in the long run it's going to benefit us in less maintenance costs and You know in terms of even Plowing and stuff like that. We're going to get better plowing It's going to be more effective and Just less maintenance. So if you look at the cost after those things are taken out the higher cost starts getting mitigated you know, I know We have a lot of paving work to do and I don't I'm not saying Let's just go foam whole hog But I think we should at least look at a maybe a couple of sections and see what the results are And that's that's where we're going not saying let's just turn on a dime But let's see the results and at least a couple of years and you know, what Chris was saying is do the Essex Public Works Department decreased their expenditures For road maintenance significantly that they they're talking about not replacing roads for 15 20 years, you know, what we're probably doing in on a you know, what a seven-year cycle or so Well, if we were lucky would be I was being yes, if we're lucky that we could get away with seven years But if you know the economics of spending more to get a product that will work 15 to 20 years I can't equate Essex Junction or Essex town with Waterbury and they're too different. We have probably two to three weeks more of winter. So there are some At least I'm being kind. Well, I mean and I get it all and if Chris's Number is right, you know, three dollars a square foot You have a 25 foot section of road a thousand feet long that's seventy five thousand dollars to do that and you know, I can't remember what asphalt was last year, but you know, if it's $100 a ton, you know, that's 750 tons of asphalt and I don't know how how far that that could go So it's a trade-off, but I think if you want to test it I'm not opposed to testing I think that if we decide to do it, I think there has to be some Judiciousness as to where we do it. I'm not sure we can You know do the whole length of Perry Hill, for example, maybe you want to but you know, you're gonna spend You're gonna spend five ten years worth of paving So this may sound like a hypothetical Wish I guess Well, let's say Let's say that This is how I think sometimes, you know people probably look at me and go Not playing with a full deck, but Let's say we were able to establish some test sections With spray foam and it works and it's successful Let's say our beloved Congress United States Congress decides to put forward an infrastructure bill of Trillion or two trillion dollars, whatever they've been batting the ball around about And we have a scenario in place that Works for solving our frost problems Conceivably could we get funding if we got mr. Welch and Mr. Leahy and whoever's going to replace Bernie Together to say we've solved this problem now we need the funding for it Never hurts to ask never hurts to ask so it's things like that that you can You know try to make happen and Just kind of like the community center, you know, they don't know until you ask Okay anybody else So we'll consider a site visit after a town meeting at some point there when the new board gets established and take a look at that and Other than that, I'll take a motion to adjourn and we'll see you at town meeting Okay