 Yeah, just see that everyone's in the room who wants to join. Yeah, our next speaker is Charles. He's executive director at Policy Lab Africa and advocates for the right to repair movement in Nigeria. Yeah, thank you very much for the, for the introduction and. Yeah, my name is Charles, as Catherine said, I'm the co-founder of Policy Lab Africa based in Lagos, Nigeria, and I wanted to share with you all the work we are doing here in Nigeria. All right to repair and other initiatives, you know, related to this. So let's get into it. So, I mean, we started out, you know, coming out from the COVID. We had a lot of issues related to, you know, repair and, you know, locating where many people had their devices kind of, you know, spoiled or broken, you know, during the lockdown, and so there was a lot of agitation in terms of people going to because the stores where you normally repair stores, if you can see here, this is one of the largest computer markets in Lagos, Nigeria. And this is where people usually come to kind of fix their phones, their laptops and other, you know, devices. You know, but due to the lockdown, people cannot access this market. So, I mean, so during the lockdown, we kind of started to put that together to kind of make it open so that people can get their devices fixed at their home or they take it to that place where it will be repaired. I mean, but from my own personal experience, I've lived in Europe for over 13 years, and I've seen right to repair movement, you know, first hand in Italy and as well as in Germany. So, so this has been something I wanted to, you know, drive, you know, coming back to Nigeria and that led us to, first of all, we made an open data where people can locate, you know, repair shops and you know, like that. And we just put it there on Google. And, you know, our interaction with a lot of these technicians and, you know, repairers, you know, led us to something, you know, I don't know if I'm, if I'm allowed to then check, you know, brands, you know, but we kind of started talking to people that are into repair and they tell us how difficult it was to kind of assess many of the big brands, smartphones and laptops to assess their spare parts, which is really, really expensive and even scarce. So, many times they will have to order these spare parts from either the US or the UK. And then let us, let us to, to kind of start the right to repair, you know, advocacy in Nigeria. So, I think that the problem for us in Nigeria is, it's clear. Nigeria is very, very big. You know, estimated 200 million people. We have over 90 million internet enabled devices. Yeah, we have a strong use and dispose culture here. Everything is kind of sanitized and I mean it's not too far fetched. We have over 80 million people living on less than $2 per day. And so, so the idea to kind of buy things cheap and dispose later is kind of, you know, imbibe, you know, coming in from the 90s. That became, you know, kind of our core of our culture. And then because of the economic, you know, situation for many of us. I mean, there are cheap OEM devices, mainly coming from China and Asia. I mean, in Nigeria you could find one of the rarest brand of smartphone you've ever had before you can buy it for like $30, $50. And you know, six months I can assure you. So we have cheap OEM devices and this place have become like a dumping site, you know, for e-waste. Many of these, you know, cheap smartphone, you know, portable devices, laptops, they don't last, they don't have, you know, spare parts, no repair information. But their device schematics is quite, you know, different, you know, from the usual, you know, device that, you know, repairers know how to fix because they understand already how the schematics, you know, works. So it's very difficult. So people will have to kind of dispose them and buy another one. So these are the problems we kind of undercovered and started to articulate it to see how we can move the right to repair movement in the right direction. And that led us to this. So for our advocacy, what we wanted to do first of all is to be able to, you know, create an awareness, you know. So we have to be able to kind of put out messages about the dangers of e-waste, the environmental impact, the economic impact and the social impact, you know, of repair. And then we started to engage, you know, policy makers and manufacturers. The idea also was to create evidence on the value of repair, you know, and maintenance as a social economy and environmental necessity. I think that African societies, especially Nigeria used to be very crafty and artisanal. You know, the gig economy is making everybody to kind of lose, you know, those values of kind of maintaining our houses, maintaining our cars and stuff like that, which is not supposed to be that way. So we wanted to be able to create that evidence, you know, through research and also, you know, engagement with experts to be able to create knowledge around this area. So we have to clear these goals and say, okay, this is how we are going to kind of, you know, build our advocacy here in Nigeria. So, um, so this hybrid, you know, model that we kind of developed in terms of we want to be able to talk to, you know, policy makers, and we want to be able to engage them through events. And also kind of citizens are all the stakeholders involved. We're also using social media very much more to be able to kind of, you know, put out messages, you know, that are kind of, you know, to reach people easier and as well as address other issues related to citizen. I think this is the way we kind of said, okay, let's go this way. We are not asking for too much in terms of we kind of articulated a policy brief, and you know a policy brief what we are kind of asking for, you know, the policymaker is to be able to kind of, you know, provide a guideline and the legislation that allows, you know, mobile phone owners to be able to unlock their phones. I think that for personally, let me tell you, I come from a middle class, right, and 80 million people in poverty. And the only way a middle class citizen of Nigeria can afford an iPhone 3 is that you buy a UK used phone. That UK use phone is used in the UK, we call it UK used, right. So it is usually like same locked. Right. So maybe it is locked by T mobile or what a phone, right. And so the kind of bring it to Nigeria, say when you bring it to Nigeria they now do a hard reset on the phone, you know, using a software that hard reset will be able to wipe out everything and then it becomes a kind of brand new iPhone, and it sells cheaper, right. And that is what most people that are using these phones in Nigeria use. So we can allow this kind of unlocking to I don't think there's anything wrong with, with having, you know, UK use phones, especially for iPhones and maybe Google Pixel and some other brands coming here. The idea is that many of them are not accessible, many of them can may not be open and sometimes they get, you know, 40, you know, allowing unlocking is kind of a big deal, you know, for us here. Another issue is to make tools and spare parts, you know, readily available. But it cost about $200, you know, to fix a Samsung screen Samsung S 22 screen, or S 21 screen here in Nigeria, it is super super expensive like like a quarter of the price of buying a brand new one. It's not available anywhere in kind of the picture of the market I showed you, you can get in anywhere. You either find it in a Samsung authorized store, or a Samsung branded store. So, I mean, it's, it's quite weird because I think that what happens when you don't have original, when you create a scarcity, you know, for original spare parts like that what happens is that the market direct itself to be able to go out and buy the imitation one. So you see people in that market, they now go somewhere in Taiwan or in China and then they now make the fake spare parts of Samsung, and they now sell it cheaper in the market. So this becomes a problem. So when you fix something from your Samsung phone and after three months, again, it's start to become a problem. It's an issue for also we are trying to say mandate many of these big brands from Nokia to Samsung to Apple to be able to make their parts readily kind of available and supplied into the market. You know that you see, you know, you know the market is economic determines you to make it cheaper because there is a lot of demand and supply, but they are scattered in the market so which means it is very very expensive you can't even find it most time they have to kind of order for you. So, another thing we started to ask the, the, you know, the regulators here is to provide, ask the manufacturers to provide the pay information, you know, and kind of review the warranty. I don't think no law in Nigeria kind of, you know, stipulate on warranty for electronic devices, you know, anywhere. Everything depends, they give a lot of there's a lot of power on the manufacturer or the seller. So there is nothing like a refund. Many of these warranty clauses are not kind of enforced. It is not debatable. I haven't seen anywhere. People kind of, you know, get along with it. And it's common for far too long and we are saying kind of no we want to be able to make sure that there is a social contract between us and those manufacturers. So this is what we have to play there and we started putting it into briefs and try to engage, you know, the Nigerian Technology Development Agency and, you know, Nigerian Consumer Protection Council. And yeah, I mean they like the idea, you know, but the regulatory environment in Nigeria is a lot. I mean, it's not like there are too many things that our regulators want to focus on that are kind of priority. I believe that, you know, that repair and right to repair is kind of a priority because of the benefits provided in these three areas, which is environmental, social and economic. You know, but they are kind of snailing, slowing the process down. We haven't been able to kind of engage meaningfully, and that, you know, is a worry for us. But it's not a problem. One of the things we kind of thought about is that we thought that, you know, from theory I kind of dig deep, from reading, you know, randomly and kind of think that, you know, place identity is, you know, is one of the ways to kind of explain, you know, cultural and environmental constraints, you know, surrounding consumption. You know, people are kind of identified with their locality, their communities, they are so bounded, you know, by it, and the behavior in their, you know, kind of moves along. We kind of said, we want to be able to draw attention, you know, but engaging policymakers might not make impact, you know, in the short and medium term but in the long term it will. But what do we do to be able to kind of, you know, draw attention of people so we have to come up with initiatives and that led us to be able to come up with a gifted hands program. So this gifted hands program is a training program that is training, you know, repair technicians mainly focused on girls, you know, between the ages of 15 and 30. And what we wanted to do is we want to be able to put them in a room, train them for about 10 weeks. They learn how to be able to fix all models of smartphones, we started to focus on smartphones. After that 10 weeks they get a certificate. Then they go into the world. Half of them will get internships, we kind of secured that for them. Many of them set up their own small repair businesses from their houses. Many of them have gone on to kind of train in other areas like laptops to be able to have a wide range of distance but first of all there any money the economic benefit is there 80% of our students have been able to kind of get money through directly through being employed in the repair industry and we're happy for that. And then you look at the social benefits, we kind of every as they kind of go through their training, we kind of have a community repair program whereby they show their skills they go into the community will put up a banner. And then we ask the community to bring their devices and we fix it for free. So they learn to solve problems, learn to be able to manage the business side and kind of, you know, consult and diagnose problems, you know, like that. And also the environmental we want to be able to build ambassadors, you know that can be able to take the world of right to repair out for us. You know, we are alone, we are the only organization campaigning for right to repair in Nigeria, there are others that are in the conversation, you know, to kind of join us. Nigeria is so big a country of 200 million people so our voice is like a drop in the ocean. We want ambassadors to be able to kind of, you know, take on the world. And that is why we started to, you know, quit these young girls to be able to be ambassadors of repair for us. And so far, we started this training in March this year, and so far we have 390 young girls that are repair technicians, over 70 of them are gainfully employed in the repair industry and these are coming from the St. The slums that are you can find in Lagos. The program is free of charge. I mean, thanks to a lot of people that saw our tweets and kind of, you know, helped us. We got through repair kits from my fix it to be able to run the program. A lot of donations as well. You know, coming from, from abroad. So, I mean, this is our journey and we feel like I couldn't be proud of what we are doing and what we're about to do. You know, over over the next year, we are still engaging with regulators and kind of doing a lot of a lot of awareness, it will different initiatives all around the country. So moving forward. I think that I was having a conversation because I think that our environment is kind of different from where you find out in Europe or on the US or anywhere across the world. I think that if you want to kind of influence, you know, policy legislation regulation in Nigeria. Your voice has to be very loud. And there has to be some form of external influence. You know, for example, you know, if, if there is a protest in Nigeria now, and somehow Obama treated about the protest, then the government will pay attention. Right. So, so that is what happens. So, with this program that we kind of with the gifted house training program that we try to run in Nigeria. We've had a lot of support from international NGOs, a lot of support from local NGOs. Many of them have been in conversation to see how we can be able to drive this program because of the economic and environmental benefit to be able to drive it. You know, towards different parts of the country, you know, which is, you know, very, you know, impressive and and encouraging. And the NGOs that called me, I mean, Norwegian Refugee Council, and they said that that this, you know, reminds them of something they did a few years ago, which kind of, you know, connects people and the way our program kind of, you know, empowers people to be able to learn a skill and therefore use it to be able to end on a daily. And these are people that have no educational background opportunities to kind of advance the education, and also being able to kind of make profits, you know, for if we kind of want to try to pay and do it very well. There is a lot of profit also for all the stakeholders involved, especially the manufacturers and also the planet. We think that, you know, removing a lot of, you know, devices they are supposed to find his way to the landfill, removing them and fixing them and giving them to people that are disadvantaged connect everybody and that is one thing we're kind of, you know, driving to do. As we go into 2023, our agenda is to kind of continue to engage, you know, high level events, workshops, training, you know, putting out articles and looking for, you know, strategic partnerships anywhere, you know, there might be around the world. I mean, I'm talking to you guys in Brussels, Belgium. We are very open to partner with people to be able to kind of advance our initiative. My hope here is that I'm able to learn from everybody during this fixed first and be able to learn, you know, strategies for advocacy and engagement. I mean, that is something we want to be able, that is why I want to share the story. So, if you have any advice, if you have any tips, if you have anything to share, we are here to also learn and we are kind of, you know, taking notes about how this is happening and taking place around the world. You know, we are motivated by the movement and people that are doing it all over the world and we thank everybody that has, you know, supported us, you know, through this journey. And I think that is it. Thank you very much for listening to my talk and I'll be here if you have any questions. Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much, Charles. I think, yeah, we have a lot to learn from you. That was very, it seems to be an amazing program you have installed and I think that's something that really can, should be, should be multiplied in many different areas and spaces. Yeah, there are already some questions I think. Yeah, do you have social media or some online space where we can follow the program. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We have a website. We have social media accounts on Twitter. Can you put it in the chat so we can check it out. Yeah, I'll put it in the chat now. Janet posted a question in the chat, Charles, did you see it? So yeah, regarding the negative images we see here in Western media of West Africa, how can you link with the agenda for creating national regulation for E-waste in a way that respects people and jobs? Could repair and reuse be linked up with this agenda to deal with E-waste? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, can I talk to that? Sure. Okay, yeah. I mean, thank you very much, Janet. Yeah, I think that, I mean, you are very much right. I think there is this kind of dichotomy between what repair and reuse is all about. But a lot of people kind of get it wrong when we say that Africa is a dumping site, right, where you have all devices coming to be kind of reused. I mean, many of them have already kind of reached the end shelf of their life, right? Yeah, but I think that on one end, we want to be able to create. I mean, not only, I think that regulation is one aspect of enabling repair and reuse. And this also kind of gets involved. I mean, we manufacture very little. We contribute about 3% to the manufacturing thing. So many of the things we use here are kind of imported. So, I mean, so whether you like it or not, if you don't want to be able to, if you want to remove waste from your landfill, you have to repair. It is a necessity, you know, because we don't manufacture a lot. And we don't even have the capacity to be able to kind of, you know, recycle. So the regulation for U.S. is very important. I think that is becoming very important, you know, with the COP26 and COP27, I think that a lot of forces are kind of thinking government is thinking alongside the energy and the environment and stuff like that, of which repair and reuse also comes, you know, along that value chain. But apart from that, I think that a lot of industry initiatives, you know, helps to be able to kind of encourage the repair industry, you know, for example, if there is no licensed, apple repair, spare parts, and the information available here, we will always continue to kind of run in circles. And this applies to various other electronic, you know, equipment. You have electronic devices that are kind of, you know, imported into the country, but no one knows how to use it. No one knows how to repair it. I mean, this happens a lot. I think you guys are in a city whereby, I think many kind of used items, you know, are called, I mean, we nicknamed them Belgian. You know, you have Belgian cars, Belgian food, Belgian rods. So Belgian is kind of like a nickname that we give to things that are used, that are second hand used, you know, over here. Many of them come into Nigeria, but there is no way to kind of fix them. It's not wrong to be able to bring those things to be able to be reused. I don't think there's anything wrong with them, with it. But what I think is that there is no kind of both regulation and industry initiative to be able to kind of recycle or reuse or repair stuff. So which means that sooner, you know, rather than later, many of these things kind of ends up in landfills, you know, as e-waste, and they are not disposed properly because we don't have the capacity to even recycle. So there needs to be, so our ask and what I think we are doing is to be able to not only kind of, you know, drive regulation along this line, but also to help to kind of create an industry, you know, that is striving for repair. So if we can bring all this information, what we want to do to be able to create a database where you find all type of things and you can go there and repair them with videos, with to-dos, and you can be able to fix them. So, so if you bring in something like a Bosch second-handed use Bosch washing machine, right, you can be able to fix it because you can be able to go to a platform and get information on how to fix it, or be able to find a relative kind of structure or schematics, you know, many of them have similar kind of schematics in terms of their hardware, but many of our technicians do not know that, and we are the experts, the people that will be able to say, okay, this looks, this engine looks just similar like this one. And of course, if you go, if this one is not available in the market, you can be able to buy these parts and be able to fix it. So those are the kind of initiatives are things that goes along with regulation as well. And yes, has a question. It's not a bad thing. We know that because we take advantage of our students, our schools, some of our administrations also buy used materials. Yes, we don't always buy the egg. Even though the egg is very expensive. So to be able to reduce the number gap, this material that is important here also helps us to acquire the material and to reduce this fault. So for the regulation, I, in any case, in the context of the Benin, it's not a big concern for the authorities. And each said one of the first things to do is to popularize, to democratize the repair. Make, make, make, make, make, make videos on repair. Put the people at the disposal, in our language, of repair manuals. Make videos on repair such as this one is done elsewhere with iFICITs, for example, where we make videos, repair manuals and all the rest. But all of this at the disposal of our students. Because this also opens an opportunity. It allows us to create jobs. And who knows, we are in Africa today, in the US today, there are a lot of unemployment problems. So we can use it as an opportunity to create jobs for our young people. We must also remember that this electronic waste is not always important. We even create electronic waste. The new material that we buy today becomes a waste. What do we do in this case? So, while waiting to have a regulation for this sector, we must work to learn to repair. We must work to install an industry of repair around these equipment that are imported, which will also serve us. So that's what I think. Because today, we don't have the means to venture on the field of recycling. We don't have these means. We must not waste them. We don't have these means. Maybe we can do small recycling through waste objects but really recycle and reduce the waste of these equipment, extract the metals and so on. We don't have these means. And to finish with the regulation, I don't think that each country is taking individual risks to solve the problem. We must be on the grid. We must make a regional pledge to work together in order to understand the well-founded action of our authorities so that a regulation is welcome. Thank you. Do you have anything to add to that Charles? Yeah, I've been struggling to find the caption. Yeah, Janet. Janet can help us out. She says, I guess, was saying that Benin and small countries don't yet have recycling industries but that they will need to work and networks regionally with others able to recycle but they can repair and reuse. That's in the reach and they need to promote this. Yeah, and I think what he also said was, yeah, we need to democratize, repair and yeah, the education is key and information and formation. I mean, that's exactly what you're doing with your program. Also, with regards to high Schommach rates. What's the English term? With a lot of jobless people, repair is a very important solution. Also in Benin, I think that's what he was saying. Yeah, recycling doesn't exist. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I echo what he said earlier. I think that, I think that, yes, the recycling is quite on that top shelf, you know, of the of the ladder. It doesn't exist. The existence is really very little. I think that our low hand green fruits, you know, for now is is repair and that, you know, help us to be able to get, you know, also as many people as possible to be to be involved in the in the entire, you know, repair movement. Yeah, I support that. I agree. Yeah, so thank you very much, Charles. You also you just put the information on your program and on how to reach you on Twitter and the chat. So for anyone who's interested, go take a look at that. And then, yeah, we should continue with the next presenter. Thank you, Charles. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, guys.