 I know. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for coming out. I hope you're all having a great week and what not. This is the talk of being better at being better where in essence we're going to go into techniques. I mean initially I kind of pitched it as like a preaching that values of measurement and stuff but as it was coming out and manifesting it wanted to come out more and like here are techniques to help you become the kind of person who you wanted to be and kind of crystallizing a lot of the things that I've learned as of late. And it's been really encouraging to see these techniques being cross referenced like not only in my work life which we're going to get into a little bit but also my personal life which we'll also get into a little bit but also in a larger corpus material in sort of like self help books or like life coaching or that kind of thing. It's been really encouraging. The talk is a work in progress not in the traditional sense that it's not done but in that like there will always be more to learn from life and about each other. And so it like it'll keep being worked on but this is the current incarnation and it's the first time that it's been presented as such. Yeah. And it's really come from like stopping to listen a lot from like when you slow down a little bit you know like the universe and life gives us lessons and stuff and so it's kind of the crystallization of all that. And then we're going to transition and then talk about a little bit of a framework that Toyota uses and one that I kind of came up with on my own which has been pretty cool. But first let me introduce myself a little bit. Started as a musician like ten years ago or something. Moved into engineering and now I also write words as well as music part-time nomad and Mountaineer and climbing all these kinds of things. I'm currently at Pantheon where I do growthy things transitioning from like the engineering side of things to more of the intersection of like product and business and marketing and design and data science all that kind of stuff as much because it's more fun to ask why than it is to ask how to solve problems. So the genesis of this talk was sort of like three years ago when I lost a dream job that was doing like meaningful work with extremely motivated people and I only have one photo from that time but this is my passport photo that was taken like the day after and so personified depression. You can see that it was no fun and on account of like needing a visa to live in the States because I'm Canadian I spent a long time unemployed like I was able to get a job but then like waiting on a visa and so like stuck in holding patterns there's like really nothing you can do it's like a really shitty situation became extremely unhappy and didn't really know why and started to read voraciously as kind of like an antidote for this or as a remedy and one of the one of the many books and I'm gonna we're gonna go into like a couple books over the next whatever 40 minutes or however long we have but one of the one of the one of the most wonderful books that I read during that time was called The Rock Warriors Way which is if you're a rock climber it's like focusing on the mental game of rock climbing which is like really applicable for those of us that do that but it's also I mean it outperformed like Seneca and like all the Bushido texts just on like raw applicability of like life lessons and it was the right cocktail of 10 general lessons passion sheer insight and application which was pretty amazing and one of the core tenants of that was to know yourself and to like learn your limits and that kind of thing so I started to do that started to dissect sort of why I was unhappy and realized that it was in part due to a lack of creation and this is broader theme of self-knowledge that I like to dig into a little bit and one of the one of the core tenants of that was that life is kind of divided into two phases of one where we choose where to steer the ship and the other one of actually steering the ship so it's kind of like that existential like whatever I want to do with my life and then I'm gonna go do it and it's like this kind of this beautiful juxtaposition of it's a beautiful juxtaposition of like we when we think we don't act and then when we act we we only think in sort of the service of that action and another one of the good lessons in there is that something bad today some of us fortune today might prevent future misfortune and there's like this classic Taoist principle of or parable of you know a farm boy like falls off a horse and breaks his leg and people like oh isn't that unfortunate and then the army comes along and wants to draft him to be sent off to a far land to be killed in battle and he can't go because he's a broken leg and so you know broken leg wasn't that bad it's good fun little short story worth reading but as I redirected some of the energy that it would have spent working for someone else instead to work on myself I started to value each other and people as more of like who we are because it's so as opposed to what we do it's so easy to get caught up in kind of like that you know like what do you do for work and you know it's kind of like where conversation stops at parties or at least in the Bay Area and that's kind of challenging but in this gradual opening things changed a little bit so to quote Dan Milman who's another wonderful author who wrote The Peaceful Warrior which is another one I highly recommend to quote Dan Milman there are no ordinary moments so then fast forward a little bit and started at Pantheon which has been a wonderful place and you know they've become family and whatnot and I met this and I met this woman who walked into my life and we spent a couple years together and despite intertwining our lives and building a shared future building a house of burning man talking starting a family and traveling the world together things were falling apart for a long time and one of the many casualties of that was self-worth and trust in my own ability to do things and so I was left with the question of how I could show so much love to someone else and yet none to myself and it was slowly destructive in the way that only true vulnerability can be when you kind of like let someone in and in the end it was it was pretty tragic and to the point of all of this is to kind of this to borrow a term from the Japanese vernacular of kinsugi which is you can only be remade of gold essentially when you're shattered in pieces and whatnot so some time after that enter nomading I spent about a month working off the coast of Africa and you meet some incredible people on the road people who just like walk their own paths with such determination it's pretty amazing and one of these people who I met was Peter and this is him and he was stoked on everything that I'd quietly begun to take for granted you know everything like this is his first time out of Belgium and so like wow like living alone oh my god and you know it's so easy to get jaded and cynical about things but there's just like so many small wonderful miracles about life that happened that it's really amazing just like stop and appreciate it and this photo was taken on the morning of the 25th birthday where we climbed El Tiere which is this volcano off the coast of Africa to watch the sunrise and just like witness kind of this this opening of someone's mind and heart is pretty pretty amazing and so being an engineer and being driven by knowing how things work and reverse engineering everything that I kind of come in contact with there's like how can I recreate this feeling of just like sheer joy and gratitude and and just like wanting to like get more to life because you know coming out of this like relationship and other things like pretty dark period and I realized that what I was struggling with was not experiencing enough gratitude and not being present enough and so started to think about okay well how can I how can I be more grateful and kind of the answer was practicing and then how do I practice okay well I guess explicitly call things out and so as much as because being engineers or coders I mean you don't want to write sorting algorithms and scratch all the time you want to like import a library and kind of a similar similar kind of philosophy with this was like oh you know this is really similar to kind of like this is breaking down of like complex ideas and problems and breaking it down into more tangible tactile things you can measure is a lot like what we do with debugging where it's like you have this complex system and you kind of dissect it and come to this point where it's like oh you know this one line is efficient or whatever you know it's this it's this one moment in the experience that's really turning people off and so just by changing that kind of drastic and profound outcome and so work class problems like that one or life class problems like these ones it all kind of comes down to the same thing and so I was writing this train from from Paris to Amsterdam and like you know one of those moments were just kind of like flowed through me and wrote up an article which is sort of like the first incarnation this talk which is on medium which is kind of at the end of this plus my laptop is like holy shit this profound so let's get into it a little bit but first water so let's talk about the importance of measurement measurement in essence is comparing something to something else it can be two explicitly different things or the same thing over time and this is something that we are really kind of diving into and asking a lot of philosophical questions with a pantheon sort of starting this whole like growth engineering process it's pretty pretty interesting these two stock charts just as an example this is Sun Edison on the New York Stock Exchange seeing the first one you'd be like oh maybe I can make some money on the up swings but only with the context of the second when you're like oh actually they filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy and that would not be a good investment and so here's an example and of course like the stock market is a great place to to philosophize around measurement and so you can't tell if a number is going up for example if you don't know which way is up and you can't tell if a car is going faster if you don't know which way on the speedometer it means fast so sure you can make moves but without having something to compare against it's hard to know what the outcomes of those moves are this quote it's something that I was seeing like hang around the Facebook office which like it's pretty profound but it's a rocking horse and it's to quote Hemingway not to it's vital not to mistake progress and measurements you can like rock back and forth but without really knowing if you're actually moving needles you know don't know if any change is going to be permanent or sticking and measurement in itself is an asset as people we become more creative when we have more constraints we become we become more directed and and why not when you know we have a we have more of we have like less free time we're less paralyzed by choice and so where this kind of plays in is by keeping something top of mind we become prime to see opportunities to improve it this has been a lot of work done in the field of behavioral economics if anybody's read thinking fast and slow by Daniel common and I mean Sversky it's it's really good and he talks about kind of you know just kind of this concept of keeping something top of mind and then what's we're kind of thinking about it on a daily basis kind of in the background of our thoughts we start to notice it more we start to notice ways to improve it a little bit more and so what's more is that not only is measurement a prerequisite to improving something but it's also almost predictive of something that will improve just by keeping it top of mind you know we'll start to see improvements and you know as a fun anecdote Benjamin Franklin had 13 guiding principles and every month you would choose to work on one of them but track all 13 of them and he noticed that over time even the ones that he wasn't explicitly I'm not sure what these principles are but even the ones that he wasn't explicitly working on he would improve and that's that's pretty profound that just by keeping something in the back for minds we'll start to find optimizations and whatnot so when coming back to the question of how to be more grateful I saw that what I was asking myself is essentially a four-step process similar to what we do with trying to improve user experiences or debug things and whatnot also similar to sort of something that I've kind of distilled down from every like life coaching session or self-help work whatever but it's essentially like how to change a habit right so let's see yeah in essence about it's about being able to recognize an input or an event of some sort and then being able to kind of take this moment between the input and the output that reaction and choose how you want to react and then actually reacting in the way that you would want to and we're gonna get into techniques on how to do this and whatnot things that have kind of pulled together not only for my own life but other sources and then kind of reinforce that that choosing to react in a certain way with periodic check-ins and is this motion progress and it's kind of the same as the retrospective process and agile development and maybe I'm trying to force the force analogy with with work a little bit but I do I do believe it's it's fairly similar but it's real hard to stop a pattern completely I mean big changes are hard and we're not good at that just as people and so there's this idea of kaizen which is changing a little bit every day compounding changes like being one percent better and this this compounding change builds up to something profound and becomes massive adjustments and this is sort of if you've read the Toyota way this is how they've perfected their engineering process over time in a black box thinking this is how you know airlines become far safer than let's say like the car industry that accidents become so rare and it's also something that at least in my experience in engineering something we've replicated across like instant management and downtime and what not it's just like just trying to be a little bit better every day and over the course of years it kind of builds up to something that's profound and so this is taken from the Wikipedia article on that but it's an Ishikawa diagram also known as a fishbone diagram and on the left on the right side it's sort of the observable problem that we're seeing it's it's the goal that we want to achieve it's the outcome that we want to have but it's it's quite rare to have just sort of one driver influence a problem or a goal and so this is really this process of kind of breaking it down into well what are the drivers of that what is indicative of the change we want to affect what's indicative of the problem and then kind of going into that and there's this technique of five wise which is sort of the backbone of the Toyota way which is also a really helpful tool for debugging and it's it's amazing how often when something breaks down it comes to not say a breakdown in infrastructure but a breakdown in communication between people which is pretty interesting that at the end of the day we're all just like social beings and you know like how we treat each other is so deterministic of an outcome and so I started to started to think about this inside that sure we're used to thinking about this in the release in Pantheon and whatnot thinking about this in the domain of work-class problems which you know how to improve performance at a very basic level or how do you improve the experience on a particular flow let's say I was like oh actually there's like life-class problems and so I happen to really enjoy of somebody being from the Bay Area and so you know how can I spend more time there okay so start to kind of go through that and then in the lower right is sort of what I was grappling with for the past six months on how can I become more happy and like sort of what are the drivers of what make me happy and how can I affect those in small and subtle ways that very tactile but then build up through a combination of of months and weeks and and years of effort to like kind of drive that happiness and the gratitude so kind of breaking down this idea that you know there's these these complex things we want to affect and then working back through what affects that and then being able to to work on you know those core principles and I mean that's all well and good so I kind of say that in theory but it's also like real difficult to kind of like learn yourself and know yourself and like understand these things and then what's more is it's also real difficult to like commit to actually making like lasting changes and so this is where the importance of like friends and family and support groups and coaches and mentoring all kind of comes into play and not only to be a sounding board and to hold you accountable but also to help like open doors so a good example let's say is I'm trying to write a book but you know I just don't have time to do that and so I'm part of this mastermind group and like every every month we show up and like okay this month I'm gonna write the book and at some point the guilt is gonna push me over the tipping edge and just like write this thing so I stop letting all my friends down what's also really handy is I've got a good times crew photo of like all my like friends and family count on my phone which is really helpful I'm just like my friends like smiling back at me and so I'm like having a shitty day just like flip through and be like wow like you know these people are special and it's kind of like unconditional support because like that faces don't change on these digital photos and this is really where the difference between the good people in your life who are just kind of there and then the excellent people in your life who like kind of hold you accountable and kind of like maximize like really drive you to become the person you want to be just by like social proof and whatnot and kind of tangentially for work class problems it's one thing to kind of like learn yourself and so like life coaching really helps and having friends and what not meditation is helpful but for work class problems this is where like big data comes in and like data science and whatnot and also ethnography and research and what's interesting about those two things kind of tangential is that they complement each other really well like talking to people doesn't scale to hundreds of thousands of people but you get a lot of nuance and then big data and data analysis and science you lose a lot of nuance even like the the names of the the terms imply as much like we have like principal component analysis which is like very clear like you know we're going to ignore everything but the principal components but all of these things kind of help us determine the direction in that we want to steer the ship and so that once we know the direction then we can start to execute and then we can start to act without thinking except in the service of the action and it's also really important that kind of day to day it's really easy to keep measurement because if it's intrusive and it's hard we're just not going to do it and that's been a lot of the been a lot of the problems that I've seen with there's like all these apps to like help you help you kind of achieve your goals but it's like it's real difficult to like every morning like wake up and be like you know go through your list of like 50 things and that's where I'm gonna get into tools like physical tools that I use later but yes real important to keep it lightweight and so ultimately our aim is to influence or at least my aim and hopefully your aim is to kind of influence yourself and check yourself into being you know the kind of person who you want to be we all have these ideas of sort of our our identities and it's amazing how much gray area there is at least I've seen this between like who I think I am and sort of how like other people perceive me and it's like wow okay I really want to like adjust that and and so luckily there's a lot of techniques that the field is marketing field of marketing is used that we can kind of hijack and repurpose to influence us including actually so Robert Cialdini wrote this wonderful book influence and I should really really put a reading list at the end of this but influence while aimed at sort of the professional fields of marketing it kind of goes through six principles of how people how people like subtly influence you and a couple of these points that are really salient I've highlighted here but to the point of identities our actions follow our sense of selves and if anybody is familiar with the don't mess with Texas campaign initially the campaign was like please don't mess with Texas because Texas is beautiful and of course nobody's gonna nobody's gonna pay attention that because that's just like not who the Texan identity is and so this marketing firm came back and they got a bunch of Texan icons to do these TV spots that are like very these these icons are like like quintessentially Texan people and it appealed to the to the sense of identity of you know just like don't don't mess with this place and that became like one of the classic one of the classic success stories and you know Kurt Vonnegut also has this really good quote we are who we pretend to be and so by suddenly shifting our identities like bit by bit 1% over time our actions kind of fall in line with that because we want to be consistent with who we think we are and not only is this true in the sense of marketing but this is also true in in life class problems another good one is commitment and so by writing down what we want to do and by like kind of having these daily affirmations and goals of like I want to do this we I mean if we value commitment and that's something that I think is is pretty ubiquitous but if we value commitment that we want to we want to fall through in these commitments and by writing these things down it kind of affirms to us that like this is something I'm gonna do and this is a technique that was used by the Chinese prisoner of war camps in World War two I think it was to get American GIs to start to slowly accept the ideas of communism where they would have essay writing contests and then they would ask the GIs to write just like something wrong with the states and capitalism and then over time you know their minds actually began to shift and like genuinely think that there was something wrong with the states and capitalism like keeping themselves consistent to what they had committed to on paper which is quite interesting that then a lot of and apparently a lot of them still kind of have these ideas that they were encouraged to buy into from maybe was the Vietnam War but I mean you know from 50 years ago and the alternative right is to just like torture someone but that doesn't work so these are these are like ways to make lasting changes another good technique is social proof and so we become an amalgamation of the people we spend time with and we kind of like settle into that norm and there's to borrow a term from Drupal Khan there's that idiom that birds of a feather right like you're gonna kind of find your your flock you're gonna find your tribe and then adopt those kind of those cultural values and and over time over time like there emerges yeah over time there emerges kind of this like group think I guess and people hold each other to the cannibal they're familiar with holding others cannibal to and so I've used this to great effect of the mastermind group and this is the this is kind of the idea behind that whole thing in general is that by that by yeah and this is also because I I like really enjoy learning and whatnot and so keeping in that I try and spend time with people in the environments that they thrive in and just kind of like pick up some of that stokes so from the from the previous slide of hanging out with Peter and tenor Eve shocking the system is also a good way to keep us honest and keep us comfortably uncomfortable which is kind of this beautiful area where we can stretch and grow to fill the gap but not snap and there's a lot of room for like personal professional growth there some people take kind of cold showers in the mornings to like kind of shock the system enough to and that would certainly keep me uncomfortable but it's also a good way to bring to bring clarity when things get tough we have this it's interesting that we have this way of just focusing on the on the salient things that are important also traveling solo is a wonderful one if you haven't traveled solo before I'd highly recommend that because you kind of you kind of start to fill the gaps in your own sense of like what you can accomplish and what you're what you're capable of but really anything that gets you out of your comfort zone comfortably is a great way to help you rise to raise the challenges and like real danger comes from being uncomfortably uncomfortable another good technique is reframing challenges and so there was that delayed gratification exercise that was done in Stanford in the 60s and one of the techniques that one of these one of these girls use which is quite clever she drew a picture frame if you're not familiar with that it was you know I'll give you one marshmallow now or and you can eat it or if you don't eat it I'll come back and give you another marshmallow that was sort of that exercise and to help trick herself one girl drew a picture frame around the marshmallow the first marshmallow so that she kind of abstracted away the reality of it and we can kind of do the same thing and so I'm one of my friends he's always had a problem doing his dishes until he started to reframe it as I'm not done cooking dinner until I've also done all my dishes and now you know his kitchen is like super clean and whatnot but ultimately I mean there's no substitute for for hard work and and self-love and like learning yourself like no one else will help you do this it's all about kind of yourself rising to the challenge and and taking the steps to grow and hopefully hopefully in this kind of experience you know maybe able to take something away that you find useful and help yourself grow these are a list of tools that at least I use to help keep myself honest coming back to that point of measurement has to be easy every note is incredible it's you know it's just something you can like carry on in your phone and then like go back and reform it on the computer whatnot but the top whatever seven images these are a list of things that like I want to accomplish and it's like checkboxes and stuff I'm pretty slow through it but at some point we'll get there but it's it's it's it's so nice to be able to to like take these ambiguous kind of amorphous cloud of ideas and then just like make action items out of them and be like no okay so like this is what I'm going to accomplish today as opposed to being paralyzed by choice of like where can we begin so at least what I found works for me on a daily scale is I have a morning ritual and so this is a technique that's used by the army but like making the bed every morning even though it's like real simple you know if you can't do anything else at least you've made the bed and so already the first thing you do is like you do something and you've accomplished something and it like really makes it easier the theory is for the rest of the day to keep accomplishing things and then to this tune of practicing gratitude every morning I kind of wake up and like call it three things that I'm grateful for for the previous day and then meditate and work out and do a bunch of push-ups and stuff but it's a great way to kind of like recenter myself and there's something there's something that's so wonderful about practicing the transience of an experience like such as meditation where thoughts kind of like come and go and don't hold on to them and it helps being mindful for the rest of the day and then sort of at a likely future scale and this is something that I've read that like Tim Ferriss does also is that I had everything to my calendar which makes it really easy to look forward but then it also makes it really easy to kind of look back and be like I was really happy six months ago what was I doing what were the exact things that I was doing and who's I doing with and I can see you know like exactly what I was up to and so if I wanted to recreate that experience could go hit those people up again or kind of like get back into that flow because we have such a recency bias which is interesting and then also a note about bandwidth sure every note keeps me honest and I don't do this but a lot of people do this not a lot of people some people I guess also like project managing your life a little bit so task management at Pantheon we use JIRA to kind of figure out like how many things can you keep in flight at the same time and for life things you know people who have talked to you like use a sauna more I guess because it's cheaper or free or whatnot I'm not sure but you know estimating how much effort something takes and this is also the basis for sprint planning and agile development estimating the amount of effort that something takes and then historically seeing how many things you can keep from flight at the same time gives you a reasonable estimate of when will I be able to accomplish this thing that I've been wanting to do and so you can break down this amorphous goal of whatever it is into a series of steps and then to a point where it gets actionable and you can start to work on those individually and what's also what's also helpful is that project management tools that like to keep a prioritized backlog of the things you want to do and what's important and so that if you have spare cycles and you spare time if you have like a spare like half hour in the day then you can like just take a crack at like learning Spanish shirt or like working on your night class or whatever it is or like cracking on another website whatever it is and then yeah at a longer term future scale got the Evernote thing and so something that my sister does to kind of keep track of this is that she she wanted to build a series of really healthy habits and so to hold herself accountable as much as anything else and kind of keep track of what those are she has a spreadsheet listing habits and days and then kind of goes in every day and like tracks them and something about like the quantified self is pretty interesting for at least someone as analytical as myself or other engineers or you know other analytical people in general another helpful technique that can be used is gamifying improvement and encouragement so like do lingo is a good example to go learn foreign languages just seeing like measurable progress every day is is something that's is incredibly driving but ultimately though you know it's all about hard work and there's no app that will be a silver bullet I mean change has to come from within yeah and so a couple lessons that's kind of the conclusion part of this but a couple lessons that I've learned from growthy things focused in work and then also kind of reflecting on this in life is that measurement is valuable at every granularity some is better than none of me we have an aversion to starting something big but starting something small is easy you can fit it in five minutes here five minutes there but that kind of builds up over time kind of like this kaizen idea and then we get profound change another another salient point is that early and often will always be slow and incomplete or slow and complete and so it's a classic product discretion right where like 20% of the effort gets you 80% of the way and mobility is more important than stability and being able to act and adjust helps keep us honest and helps keep us tacking in the right direction and helps us orient ourselves much better and then the importance of being open and that being open and vulnerable can lead to unexpected synchronicities and harmonies and can lead to just wonderful places and this is reflected in I mean personal life obviously but then in professional life when we start to like dig into numbers we may have like a gut idea of why something works but without looking at numbers you know there's no real way but then once you start to look into the numbers it's like oh well this tells me that something is not working let's say but it doesn't tell me why something is not working and so or if or if multiple changes happen at the same time it's hard to kind of like go back and figure out what was the driving change and so openness is is key and you know as much as much as it's good to answer questions measurement also begins to question answers and so I hope that you learned something maybe about the maybe got a good book or whatever learned something about the Toyota way the five wise kaizen's I wrote up a little bit about this the first incarnation on medium which is linked there you can find me for work things at my handle hdom or life things at is the Baron or just reach out and say hi and then code sprints and so forth and feedback yeah yeah any any questions thank you all for coming thank you for holding me accountable to write this I would not have written this if I was not going to present it and so this is helpful for me also yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's a good question the question was sort of around when you have something large that you want to tackle that's complex how do you go about breaking that down and fitting that in explicitly carving out like an hour every day to do it if that's is that something that you've worked on yeah yeah and failure certainly is a good forcing function I guess in much the same way that if I were to go learn go for example I'd probably like take the approach that 20% of the effort gets 80% of the impact and like that 80 20 rule is so so pervasive and so I'm not sure in your situation for example if there's sort of like an MVP of the things that you can learn I mean it sounds like you've already done a lot of reconnaissance on sort of the landscape of you know by by doing this it allows me to do these other things and I'm not sure sort of what the 20% missing if you just you know put 20% of effort in and I'm not sure what the 20% lacking there would enable you to do or not enable you to do but certainly kind of like figuring out like what the what the core of what you have to learn is also the importance of like mentors and coaches are awesome and even just like hang out with someone for half an hour who's like kind of walked down this path before is incredibly valuable or has incredible value yeah good luck yeah absolutely yeah I mean if you don't want to do it then I mean if I didn't want to do it and you came up to me and you said do this I'd be like oh man but if there's money on the line for example or it's an employer what not communication is so communication patients are so important and being able to another great book Clayton Christensen how we measure life one of the salient I think sentences from that and this is this is more of a book about parenting and whatnot but he went about his children's upbringing by creating experiences that they would learn from and so in some cases even setting them up to fail so that they would learn the lesson to then be like oh maybe there's something here maybe I should listen to that so maybe that's a technique you can use yeah I mean I don't want to condone manipulation I did I did deny it right I'm sure that's I'm sure that's one answer I think people who are more drawn to the analytical mindset and like writing code I think we're more in this vein of like well how do I influence myself but then on the other hand I've also hung out with people for a couple years and they've never bit on any of this so I don't know yeah I mean maybe if there was a way to just incentivize someone to be more reflective about it it's more about reflection I guess you know some people just like aren't ready for it some people have to like have one of those like crushing experiences to be like oh I really want to grow from this and then kind of looking into that yeah yeah intrinsic motivation yeah which is not something that you can I mean maybe it is something you can give to someone but yeah yeah yeah oh yeah well thank you