 All right. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so in the following manner by emailing stevemccarthy at mccarthys at amherstma.gov. That's M-C-C-A-R-T-H-Y-S at amherstma.gov. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access proceedings in real time by a technological means. In the event that we are unable to do so for reasons of economic hardship and despite best efforts, we will post on the town website an audio or video recording transcript or other comprehensive record proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting. All right. And so let's call the meeting to order at 5.02 p.m. Take a roll call of attendance, Hallie. Here. Gaston. Here. Doug. Here. And I am here. And Dylan is not. So we are four present and one absent. Okay. Public comment. Is there anyone here for public comment? And... I'm seeing nobody. No, there are no attendees. So, okay. So, oh, we're gonna go right into discussion items. So Steve, you said, we talked about this, that there are some temporaries in the works, but not now this week, right? Yes. I got a big batch of UMass ones and they are all a couple of months out. So I'm gonna try to review them and get them all on one agenda as a batch. And then we have one for the Hitchcock Center in mid-October and they had to make some changes to fit within the regulations. So I'm waiting to get some amended materials from them. Okay. We should be preparing that probably the next meeting, I think. Great. So we have that to look forward to. Okay. So discussion items. Adult Miss Marijuana Regulations. Doug, what is the scoop on that? I think that the version that you have, I went back through it for one last time, Funtooth Comb, did a small bit of tweaking to some of the things, looking for typos and whatnot. I'm sure there's some still in there. And I think there's sort of barring things that people might notice when we add to them. I think they're kind of ready to go. I think the thing is, we can't really adopt them until we actually have the authority to go to a license. I did put together a draft of a bylaw, just as a starting point for the, I think it's the GOL as the subcommittee as a council that deals with those kind of things. So hopefully we can kind of get that in front of them. And we can share if there are, obviously if there are other edits that people want to make to this or changes they think are necessary or appropriate for it. We'll put those in, but I think we can hold off on actual adoption until the license gets created by the council if they're willing to. But we could pass this along with that request for that authority, so they can see kind of where we're headed with this. Okay, sounds great. Any questions Gaston? Yeah, no, thanks. I'm finally kind of getting what they're doing and appreciate the work and the clarity here, Doug. So I think I have like my process comment is wondering when is the best time to try to drum up some public comment? I, this is the kind of thing that like breaking new ground and I think it would really be good to get commentary both from operators, neighbors, customers to the extent possible. And so I'm not sure whether that makes sense to try to happen before we send it up or that our recommendation and sending it up is that we encourage the town council to organize that. So that I don't, that's a process question, but before we were to adopt these, and maybe it's after the council empowers us and then at that point we have a hearing because we then have the power to act on it. So I'm just raising the question, what's the best time to try to make sure we get some feedback from the community? Yeah, Doug. If I may. So that is a great point. I think that it's an interesting question because I think that whether to have a license or not is sort of the primary question, first and foremost, I'll be opinion and that's my sort of personal thing is that it's worthwhile to have this more public process like we do with alcohol because there's not one in the current structure that the state put together. And it might be worth the conversation with the counselors, whether they be on the GOL or otherwise to see what they think is a good way to do this as far as how to engage. Because I think you're right, some feedback and some awareness to the broader public is gonna be helpful and useful. I will add one other thing I think, and again, because I think one of the questions that, if I'm an owner of one of these currently existing businesses, like, what's this gonna cost me, right? I would suggest, as we think about this and it fits into our fee conversation layers, this would be fairly modest at price, 100 bucks or something, fairly modest. And the reason why is because the host community agreement is where we really sort of put the screws to them for money and just to recognize like, this isn't about sort of what, our liquor licenses are pretty expensive, but we don't have host community agreements. So we're trying to impress upon those little license holders, the importance of them being good members of our community. In this circumstance, the host community agreement does that. So I think this is more about, let's cover the cost of Steve McCarthy's time and some of that sort of stuff. It's really more about that and not about yet another way to sort of extract some money out of these people. So that's just an additional sort of comment along those lines. But I think maybe asking our sort of liaison to the council might be the next best step about that. But I think you're right, public comment on this is important, because it, you know. Okay. So who, yes, Gaston? Well, I mean, I had like, I mean, I think like three specific points or questions based on the draft. So if this is a good time, I can raise one. Yeah. Go ahead. So one, you know, what I recall is that one of the, one of the big points where we can potentially help honor the agreements is on the, really on the affirmative action of the hiring. If I, you know, I think that we've covered that. And I, so when I was looking, I see that in the very last bullet in 8.1, in the sense of, you know, the non-monetary terms. And I just wanted to confirm that that's how you were thinking about it and whether we should say anything more concrete that doesn't just reference the agreement. I mean, I wonder if we might give a list, a sub-list of examples, like including X and Y and Z of the terms that we know are important. I guess in that vein, it would be really valuable if we could review some of these agreements. I don't know if they're public. Yeah, I don't know. Doug, do you know if they- I think they almost have to be. Okay. To be honest, I think it's a matter of, you know, I mean, you have to go and request it from the town manager's office, but we could. I think that the template that Jeff Kravitz, before he left, was working on, because he was kind of leading that for the town. He kind of put a standard format together. He may have shared that standard format with me. I'd have to do a little digging to find that. But I think all of our host community agreements kind of have a similar sort of look and feel to them. But I think, you know, if Steve were to, you know, sort of run upstairs and ask, he could probably get copies to us, but I think they're public documents. Okay. Yeah, I think this is... Sorry, Mary, I didn't mean to cut you off. No, no, no, go ahead. I think this is getting to be in really great shape, Doug. And I mean, I know the first step I'd like to take is just to, you know, review it with Rob and then, you know, maybe kind of tweak up the formatting a little bit, just to match the format we've been using. And yeah, and then probably run it by the town manager, too, because I'm sure this will be a pretty high, high-profile thing to have happen. And, you know, one thing to consider, I mean, I think it really depends on what he's thinking, but maybe we want to, you know, rip up the host community agreements overall and replace them with a license, because I know there was some reform with them this year in the legislature, but I kind of wonder how much of a serious court challenge they would ultimately withstand. And it might be worth, you know, proofing ourselves. I think that really depends on what the town manager's thinking, but... Yeah, go ahead, Doug. I was going to just say, I think that's, I wouldn't at this moment, because I think there are a lot of things in those host community agreements around security and control and responsibility and that sort of stuff that we would then have to come back and make sure are in sort of, in these regulations, I think, and formalized as part and parcel of that, or they would need to go into the bylaw of the, you know, where it creates the license. And so, you know, I'd be a little hesitant at the moment. It's like, let's set them right for now. And, you know, those community agreements, I think sort of keep them in place and let the sort of case law sort of play out a little bit. The other thing I will mention sort of a side to this is I tried in rereading this to leave ourselves room so that if public consumption, cafes and stuff become legal, that we don't have to make a lot of alteration to this to sort of have a count. In other words, there's maybe one reference to just like for consumption offsite kind of thing. We just sort of take that line out and I think the rest of it sort of works because it's still a retail setting even if you're at a cafe. So, I mean, there may be other things we want to fold in relative to that too, but I think we would have something that would be functional at least if it moves quickly in that direction as well, just as a side point, but. Okay, yeah. Gaston, you had two other points. Yeah, two other ones. On 8.2, I think the third bullet, which is other conditions, the board may reasonably require that kind of led me to wonder what are the limits on our authority? But in any case, I think that bullet's not required because it's in the first sentence, I think. So it kind of like Midoff protest too much about how, about the leeway. So, yeah, I think it's covered in the most reasonable conditions. The other point is actually trying to anticipate a different kind of issue. And that is, I mentioned last time kind of my conversation with my friend who had talked to a provider for a long time. And I'm seeing that these dispensaries are beginning to try to differentiate or trying to make their lobbies really pleasant, maybe have magazines make it a place where people might hang out. And so I suspect that that's gonna invite an expansion of what they're selling. And so I don't know how to address it expressly, but I don't know at what point they might start wanting to sell things that would require the health department to come in and inspect or just other retail that's kind of straying from the grant. And I guess that might be the kind of thing that we may be interested in commenting on, but I don't know, I don't know how to, I don't have an answer. I'm just flagging a possible issue that seems germane to the project of this regulation. Yes, Doug. Just to kind of get a little more from you on that topic. I mean, are you thinking like, are you thinking sort of other retail clothing or apparatus or all of the above kind of things? Well, I'm thinking, I mean, I was thinking specifically of like starting to sell like coffee and muffins so that you like hang out. Right. So it would be in a way kind of backing into social, it wouldn't be consumption yet, but it would be the social. And so that's, I mean, I don't see a problem with that, but it does seem like the kind of thing that should be, somebody should be aware of like the scope of what's the business. And certainly if it, somebody should be aware to flip the switch and say, oh, it actually, you need a health inspection for what you're now, a different health inspection for what you're now selling. You know, I don't know to throw a counterfactual, like would it matter or would we care if a dispensary started to double as a sex toy store? Is that, does that matter? Is that relevant to the license that we're contemplating? I don't know, you know, I may. Yeah, sure. So I think the thing is, is that if they get into something else, you know, like food service, then of course then they're gonna get a common thick and that's, I think that all applies. And that's, you know, that's the same as anybody else that has multiple sort of business, you know, it's like the live entertainment along with your common thick and your health inspection, you know, those all overlap each other. So I think that's okay. I think to your point though, that other one is like, does that become a question relative to, you know, and I think this also plays into the, you know, the conversation we'll have a little later about the alcohol regulations, you know, we're thinking about sort of one of the criteria to grant a license. So, you know, people already exist and then it's a matter of renewal, but I think if we're thinking, you know, sort of a brand new one comes in and they want to do that, you know, that's part of the overall consideration, you know, it's like, does it fit within the, you know, the neighborhood? Is it, I think the phrase in the alcohol one is the, does it serve a need and something else? I forget the phrase, but, you know, like, do we want to, and I think this is to your point, do we want to put some of that language in here as well around sort of other factors we're considering when we consider their sort of business plan and their totality of stuff that they're doing? Maybe we do, I don't know. Yeah, because they do have things like, where it's like food that you can eat it, right? Or like a piece of candy or something. Not on site, but. Oh, they don't have them on site, but they could, like if they could, like what you're suggesting was done, like there's coffee and muffins and then there's, and I know they have the infused drinks, which I think at one point we're not allowed in Massachusetts and now I'm not sure if they've changed that to allow them. But it is sort of like something that starts out at one thing and then morphs into something else. I think those drinks are. So like let's say. Go ahead, Halle. Go ahead. So if a liquor store wants to sell chips and slim gyms, I mean, I'm looking at it sort of like that, right? Is that, do they need a special license for that right now? You know, is that sort of akin to what you're suggesting Gaston kind of like? Or retail food or something? Yeah, I mean, I'm raising the question so that we know that it doesn't belong or if it does belong, what do we wanna say about it? I mean, just the fact that I expect that the set of dispensaries we have in town are gonna start morphing and going in different directions. And that would actually seem to be the kind of space where we could provide some value to the town by paying attention to that. But what kind of attention and how does that come up? Again, I'm raising questions without having answers. Right, right, right. So, yeah, do you have, so do we have, just to kind of get off topic, but I know you said maybe we bring this up to the town council liaison. Do we actually have one anymore? I think it's been a joke. Oh, it is, okay, that's right. I think so, yeah. Officially or should just, we asked her to come and now she's it, okay. Yeah, she's it, it wasn't official. Okay, great. So would that be the next step? We'd send that off to her or you would, you'd send that along with the bylaw language that you've drafted? Yeah, I think, you know, I mean, to Gaston's points earlier, I'm happy to put, you know, a bit of a sublist into that last bullet on the point one to kind of capture some of those examples. I'm happy to do that, take that extraneous bullet out. I think that the last question is sort of a broader one we'll have to continue to have that conversation and perhaps, you know, that conversation with the public will be important to that and then also with the council and that sort of thing. But I think, you know, if those changes are amenable to the group, then, yeah, I'm happy to reach out to Maddie Joe and say, hey, we're kind of here at this point, we're thinking about this as a license. You know, here's sort of the regulations as we've got them at this moment, you know, what do you think's next? What's best for next? You know, that kind of thing and kind of peel her out. So, you know, that's kind of what I would suggest and I'm happy to do that. Okay, yeah, yeah, that'd be great. Did you have guests on? No, that sounds good to me. I just had actually a specific comment on six two. I was just thinking that we've kind of flagged that the renewal function may be where we're especially valuable. Like, you know, and I'm thinking that to add submit the reports, the board may deem reasonably necessary. So it's, we're the ones that deciding what reports we need, you know, like if we need employment reports or details that we, it's just clear that we can keep asking questions and asking for more documents. Yeah, I'm happy to add that too. Yeah, Doug, if you don't mind, I've always found Rob Morris feedback to be very valuable, these kinds of things. So, you know, I could take these and, you know, just try to format them as we have all of our other regulations formatted and, you know, maybe just go over with him and provide you with some feedback, you know, and we could maybe discuss that the next meeting and then move on to the town council. Does that sound? Sounds great. Yeah, that sounds perfect, but I will, Steve, what I'll do is I'll make the edits that the guests on suggested because I think they're valid and appropriate and so I'll do those and then send that to you so that you can connect it with Rob and sort of see what his feedback is and see if there's something that, he may have a whole another little branch of thought that we want to add to it, which would be great. Yeah, if I've had a little bit of a free time here in between the rental permit renewal and the students coming back to start problems that I've been really trying to catch up on the license commission things. So I took a long look at lunch card this week and I'd be happy to do that too and we can probably get in the guidelines for liquor license regs too and really make some progress and everything. Good. Sounds great, thank you. All right. We've all been working for a long time in these projects so it'll be nice to see them all through. Yeah, really. Okay, are we ready for rental registration? So this is, so last time Kelly weren't here, the manager of Hanna-Kee was here and we kind of sprung rental registration on her and because they are over going through, I think she was here for something else and then. So we talked about that for a while and I think one of the big takeaways is that they're really like, she's envisioning that the board of license commissioners will become the author of the new regulations that they are writing the bylaws for. Is that the correct in my, what she was hoping for or wanting us to think about kind of going forward? Yeah. And then the adjudicator. The adjudicator, right. So if somebody does something wrong, it comes before us like other people have done in the past. So that's something we have to talk about and I think they were gonna, she was gonna go back to the CRC and have further conversations about this and then send us another draft of the bylaw. So, but I haven't gotten anything from her. Does anyone else have anything? I mean, I'll just say, we had a good and discussion of a hard topic, which is like, what are we well suited to do in the domain of rental enforcement? And we asked that question about what would suspension mean because you don't want the penalty to mean that we have less housing in Amherst and putting people on the street and I understood her answer to be, well, it wouldn't be until the lease is over is what I understood her to be saying something like that. Right. Yeah, I think. Right. And the thing I would say is that, as with all things rental related, it's like part of the burden is sometimes that you're part of it undesirable behavior or whatever is on the tenant and sometimes it's on the landlord. Right. Those are two different tracks and two different mechanisms you want to think about from the standpoint of penalty, I think, you know, and so that's some of what I think we, you know, everybody's going to struggle with and I'm hopeful that the council will actually and, you know, do a fair amount of sort of pieces of the thinking around some of that sort of stuff. And if we're asked or tasked with some of the regulation that's much more nuanced kind of stuff that we're looking for about, you know, general community will be some of the same questions we asked about, you know, placement of a liquor license or something like that. So they're more of those kind of things and less about some of those, you know, different, you know, structural kind of problems that I think are better suited to the council that sort of think about it in a political and, you know, and with the political input that they have because, you know, we're appointed there, they're elected. So their constituents can offer suggestions. I mean, they obviously give us suggestions as well, but might be better suited to certainly in a first go round to be done through the council, but, you know. Yeah. So that's where that's at. Did she give you any indication of like how many or maybe Steve knows this, like how many violations, I know we'd be revamping the process, but I'm wondering like what this would do for us in terms of hearings and. I think we asked it, like who's in charge of that now? And it turned out there, is it the, I can't remember. All I remember is that there was a, there's sort of like a, on paper, there's a little board composed of the old select board and the building commissioner and somebody else who theoretically can handle this stuff, but they never have. I think it's a great rental appeals board. Yeah. So I'm getting forth the laws. I just was curious. Yeah, I haven't heard anything else from councilor Haneke since then, but I know that in, you know, currently the inspection services, we have our inspectors who they will go out and, you know, just write people tickets for violations if it comes up and kind of handle everything administratively that way. And if somebody appeals, I mean, I think there have been a couple of cases where somebody appealed and just went right to court when if it was something serious, maybe, but there is a rental appeals board that theoretically exists. I don't think it's ever met. It was the chair of the select board, the chair of the planning board, chair of the ZBA and maybe there was one more, at least those three. And I don't think it's ever, it's ever convened in the eight years since the regulations were passed. So, okay. If I may, you know, to date, it's largely been complaint-driven, which is, I think, Steve, you can back me up on this. I think Rob More is thinking, well, it would be better to, it's not bad to have that, but to be also proactive and sort of looking for and trying to remediate problems in a proactive way. So seeking out and doing inspections more actively is one piece that I think the building inspector would like to have a part of this. And I think that, I think functionally, what's happened is that most of the things that have come up that would have qualified are things that are administratively handled within town staff in much the same way like, you know, police can write tickets or arrest people and, you know, the council doesn't have to be involved in that. So it's sort of empowered to do certain kinds of things. And we may, you know, it may be that that, I think that's one of the other sort of pieces policy-wise that has to be kind of banded about is at what level does it transition from, you know, sort of more mechanical straightforward violations of, you know, health and safety kind of things that are handled by inspectors and that group of folks. And when does it get into, you know, a more order committee kind of level for, you know, review and implementation. So, you know, there's some threshold there that has to be defined a little bit about what sort of staff responsibilities to kind of take care of and manage and execute relative. And then when does it come before, you know, somebody for review and judgment and then potentially someone else to handle appeals. So, I mean, those are all just open questions. And I think- Right, right. Part and parcel of it, so. So, we will, as soon as we get another draft from the CRC, Steve will send it around and we can continue to have this discussion. Were there any other questions about it? No? Okay. Lunch cart regulations. So, I sent a draft, the most current draft to Steve. Steve sent it to Susan Malone and Rob Mora in lieu of a meeting that we were going to have in the interests of time. This would kind of, and then Steve did a super professional reformatting and added a bunch of stuff in following that meeting. So, you have my draft, Steve's draft, and then Gaston's red line version with all the stuff on it that was reformatted and added in. Thank you so much for doing that, Steve. Can you walk us through this? Cause this looks really good. Yeah, so, as I mentioned, I had some extra time this week and I know that you've all been working very hard and doing a lot, I think a lot of, we've really got a lot of great ideas for how to move forward with this. And I think Marion did a great job of collecting them all into a set of regulations. And I just keep this moving forward. I just tried to put it all together in the format we use and just kind of organize things in such a way that it all flowed. When I had it together, there were a couple of things that jumped out to me. And so there's some things I've flagged for us to look at. And I think there's certainly some more work that needs to be done in this to expand, especially with enforcement. There's a couple of places where I think we could do a lot more, a little bit more fleshing out, but I think it'd be great. We've been working on this for a long time. I think it'd be great to get it past them before the weather's over. So I figured maybe the best way is just for me to kind of just go through the beginning and just kind of point it, yeah. So I really was doing a lot of brainstorming about what we can name it beyond this ungodly, ungodly clumsy, you know, a license to operate a mobile food establishment in the public way. And it popped into my head at about 445. I don't think this is great, but it's a lot better than that. LCFT, watch car food truck. LCFT license. Okay. It's something, at least it rhymes. But it's not here, it's not written here. No, it just popped into my head at like 445, but I've really been trying to brainstorm about a name for this license, because I think that's something it would be good to have. Because the health department also has a license called Mobile Food Something, which is right, which is... Yeah, so that's... It'd be nice if we could just call it a Mobile Food Establishment License, but they issue that, and you don't need this license. If you're only on private property. And there's a lot of them that come in for Amherst College. They rotate through a lot of food trucks, and they never go on the public way. So it's... I also don't really like lunch cart, because it also applies to food trucks. So you can have the very clumsy... Yeah, a license to operate a food truck in the public way, or I think it'd be good to have something a little punchier. So LCFT is my 6 out of 10 brainstorm so far. And I would be happy if somebody else came up with something better, but I guess we'll stick that in our back pocket. So for fees, $100 was the annual license. And that's what it was, short-term license. I just threw out $20 per day. It's up to three days. I guess we'll... I don't know if that seems fair to people or... I mean, I'd be inclined to make the short-term license be as a non-profit, be as nominal as possible. I don't know what you all think, but if someone has the foresight to apply three weeks in advance to serve on a weekend, then I guess I wouldn't... I would feel fine letting them pay $20 for the whole weekend. I don't know. So, Steve, as short-term, I can't see down there. And I didn't get a lot of chance to look at it before. His short-term change from... I think we had like 72 hours to something. Oh, there we go. No more than three consecutive calendar days. So, yeah, we could do like $20 for a three-day or what is... I don't know, is that... I just changed that because I could imagine somebody saying, oh, well, I was only open five days today. That means I get five days tomorrow and five days a day after that and five or five hours. And then you can just say, oh, I have 72 hours of actually being open over like three weeks or something. So just to kind of parallel the short-term alcohol. Right. Doug, did you have a question? I was just going to say, you know, many of these will operate if their old food trucks are going to have to pay parking as well. So that's another reason to kind of keep it in a lower price. I might suggest, you know, if we do it per day because someone might only want Friday and Saturday or something like that, you know, it's like, if we do $10 per day, five might be too small just from the standpoint of it costs Steve more time than that to sort of process the paperwork. So maybe $10 per day, you know, that'd be $30 for the weekend if they did three days. I don't know if that doesn't seem too bad to me. I mean, you know, we could make it $750, but then we really, it starts to get a little funky that way, but... Yeah. Kelly? Do we have it so that, you know, we could even put, if you apply for a permanent license within 30 days from your short term license, we'll, you know, give you that $20 credit or something like that just to encourage people if they have a good run. Yeah, that's a good idea. Can you guys try to put it so you can see the red line next to the clean ones that working for you guys? Yes, that sounds good. Great. So credit towards permanent license, perhaps. All right. Okay. So moving down purpose, I just, just tweaked the language here a little bit. Didn't necessarily want to bring brick and moors into it. I don't know. I feel like that could be kind of a sensitive topic, so I just tried to make it a little bit more neutral there. Authority didn't touch. Annual license. It might have been in there somewhere down below, but I just tried to put that into definitions there. Okay. I changed lunch cart everywhere here, generally to mobile food establishment. I think that's definitely something we can look at. It is kind of a mouthful everywhere. And maybe if we had an acronym, we put it in the definitions here, but I was just trying to remove everything lunch cart in here. So I have like on street, mobile food establishment, on sidewalk, mobile food establishment. I also, yeah, I could put in typically a truck or typically a cart here. So people who might be a little bit confused will understand that. Moving down to, yeah, the short term, I just changed that. We don't know that with the time. So application procedure. I tried to have a little section here for all licenses. So just they kind of know exactly what they did. I thought left and right photos of the cart. That's something that they already have to do for the health license. So it wouldn't really be a big ask for them. But I can imagine if somebody's requesting a certain space, you say, I have a car or I have a truck and we might have no idea how big it is. And that might help us in kind of judging the location. Somebody's trying to get, especially if it's one of those custom locations or even one of the smaller ones that we have in the pre-approved lists, that might give us a sense of whether that'd be appropriate or not. Cause it does say in the old and the new regulations that the board would be making that determination that locations might not be suitable for particular vehicles. So I thought that'd be helpful. Just kind of a little bit about the application process. And I also thought that it might be good. So I was trying to kind of more solidify these two categories of on street or on sidewalk. But so I thought that the board would make a determination at the hearing about whether it falls into one or the other of the categories. But I also thought that I also put a little provision there for both classifications because I can imagine if somebody has little tuk-tuk or something, you know, some kind of weird, there might be some weird vehicle that, you know, you'd be okay with having and you know, on the street or on the sidewalk. And so I know what you guys think about that, but I just left that in and kind of going off of a lot of the discussions that we've had earlier in the year and some of the things in the drafts. I kind of set a list of the pre-approved locations and it just says you can go, you can go in between them. And, you know, it used to be that you could apply for any, you know, you can apply for one of the locations or all the locations. And then if you apply it from all of them, you can go between them. So I kind of just let it default to that. I think there's definitely some conversations to be had there, but I'll try to stay in order here. Health licensing, you know, what can really be a headache for a lot of applicants is that, you know, I think the select board version of these regulations require that you have the health permit before the application could be done, but that's a lengthy process. And a lot of times I think the health inspector has to do an onsite inspection the day of to actually finally issue the license. So I said that in here that, you know, applications will be, you know, you need to have your, hawkers and pillars need to have your sales tax registration. But if you have a, and actually thinking about it now, maybe, well, I was gonna say maybe, I was just thinking that maybe they should have to have submitted it first before it'll be complete, but I guess it doesn't really matter either way. But yeah, the board would receive and vote on an application before a health license is issued, but administratively, I would hold it back and not actually issue the license until the health license issued. So that way they can do both processes in parallel. It would kind of compress the time schedule a little bit for them and make it a little easier to get to the process, Doug. Yeah, but if I could just on the topic, I think you're right. I think the way we wanna phrase it in the, you know, in here and you may have it phrased this way, but basically, you know, it's that you've gotta attain this license before opening. So it's, in other words, the license we're gonna issue is contingent upon having that. So that's really, you know, the way to phrase it, it doesn't preclude and such that it doesn't preclude them from going ahead and working on that license. So the health inspection license, you know, we don't wanna make it dependent upon having this license or vice versa. So what we wanna do though is that for our license to be fully in effect, it does have to be obtained. So that's, you know, I think that's the, it is contingent upon completion of that step, but not required to be in place beforehand or something to that effect. Yeah, that's kind of what I was going for, is that the board might vote on it, but sometimes look at the short terms, you know, we say, you know, it's approved, contingent on the police chiefs approval, it would just be approved, you know, once you get the health, once the health license is issued. So if they never get the health license for some reason, then the license never actually vests, but at least that can help people work around, you know, a schedule, the borderline meeting once every two weeks when a lot of the times these people are kind of last minute with things. Right, so something like approved can be approved by the board, but will not be effective until the, yeah. Yeah, I tried to, yeah, I tried to spell that out. Maybe it's not that clear, but. Order to assist. Okay, final issuance of the, okay, contingent on the health MFE license being issued first. Yeah, I think we're definitely gonna have to clean up some of these acronyms and everything, but I just tried to, tried to just get the structure together so we can keep, keep moving forward with this. Looks good, okay. Annual licenses kind of what I played about the time, renewal, you know, don't have to provide a new, new pictures or the new Hawkers and Parallels license list expired. The other thing I would suggest there is just that, or if they significantly alter their cart, their device. That's a very good point. I'm taking notes on paper here. So these are all very helpful. Yeah, cause, you know, you might upgrade a little bit or, you know, get a new one. And so, you know, we want to, we don't need to like, you know, if you're using the same cart used last year, using the same truck used last year, that's fine. But if you upgrade, you want to kind of see it, I think. That's a really good point. We probably want to reclassify it too. If it's new, it went from a tiny little push cart to a huge truck. Right, it'll change, you know, we may have, if we put restrictions on which locations they can be at because of the size, you know, if they went smaller, then they might have more available to them or if they were larger, then it excludes a few more. That's part and parcel of that. Yeah, yeah, that's very helpful. Yeah, I've been writing everything down here on paper. So I'll make some changes once we're all through. So one interesting thing, I was kind of going through it again with Rob, just in the, you know, the hour before our meeting when I sent that to you guys. And he had an interesting idea of short-term licenses can just be administratively issued just by staff without going to the board. I thought that was interesting, especially for things in a short time period. I, it's an interesting, I mean, I guess what I would, just to brainstorm off your point, Steve, I'm wondering if we know there's a weekend when or an event where people are gonna want to and we're concerned that our three-week rule is gonna frustrate the potential of the event to be a success. Could we in effect delegate for that three-week period once we kind of know something is coming, we at that point delegate authority to do the administrative license for the short-term. That's somewhere between the proposal you advance and I think where the draft was. So I guess just to keep the conversation going. Yeah, I think that's... So only in certain conditions we have to apply before. I think that's a good idea, yeah. And yeah, certain decisions apply or the board makes a determination or something because in my experience, a lot of these event organizers will be scrambling like days before the event, just trying to find a food truck because somebody drops out or they didn't have enough or this happens or that happens or somebody finds a better event to go to or whatever. And I think something else that's really been let go is every mobile food establishment that's been on the town common really should be licensed into this because it's a public way. It doesn't really matter if it's affiliated with a rotary fair or the farmer's market or whatever. It's kind of been our practice but and the old regulations really took, didn't take that into account at all. But I think that now that we're making a good framework we really should actually be issuing the licenses that that activity requires. So I think we will get a lot more of these types of things. So I think that's a good idea from Gaston and put notes in that. What this in between allows us to do is you can kind of say, listen, go ahead and approve it so long as they need X, Y and Z condition. You can tell them that this is what we're looking for for this event. I actually really liked that idea. Yes, maybe event level guidelines. The other thing I would suggest is it might be something where, you know, again, it talk about compressed timelines. It could be a circumstance where we might not be meeting, you know, the event could be coming into fruition in a timeframe between our meetings. And so it could be a thing where we empower the chair to delegate that authority to the to the building commissioner also, you know what I'm saying? So if it's not just, you know, if it's something where we know the event's coming and we say, oh, in that circumstance that, you know, the commissioner can do it under these conditions, could be a thing where we empower the chair to say, you know, to grant that authority to the commissioner. And so then the board still has, you know, some level of control, even if it's delegated to the chair. Okay. Something else I just thought is, you know, maybe if it's within the town common, because we don't really want to make the town common itself a designated area, because we don't put people driving on on random days, but, you know, maybe anything within the town common would be delegated for administrative approval. So it would be, you know, certainly be done in association with some other event that would have to be reserved. But if somebody just wants to do, you know, some event and this wants to go park on sunset have or something, I mean, that should really always go to review. Right. Okay. I would, I would suggest that, you know, some of the delegation of the, of the, you know, what is it, town parks and ways that the council has given to the town manager's office. That language may be helpful in framing what you're talking about there, Steve. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Doug. So I tried to, this whole section is kind of clean up the language surrounding the locations and just make it a little bit more uniform. So I said, the board has a list below of the pre-approved locations where any licensee of each classification type may operate. Annual licensees and move between the allowed locations that are classification type as they wish and are not restricted to any particular location. Short-term licensees must specify the locations. I had that S in there, the plural because, you know, ideally hopefully maybe, especially if it is the fee for short-term is dropped a little bit, you know, maybe somebody wants to try out Amherst and see, you know, how is this town for, you know, am I gonna get any business? Maybe I'll stay out here for a couple days and see if, you know, see how it is on Saturday afternoon or something. And so maybe they could, you know, they're here for a weekend, they try one spot, try another spot. So the board reserves right to restrict the availability of particular locations for particular licensees if the MFE is unable to reasonably fit in those locations. This is something I think we should maybe folk, you know, do a little thinking on because even if we do have the pictures you know, we're not gonna mentally compare the truck to all, you know, 13 of these locations in our heads. So. So do we require measurements like dimensions of the, are you gonna, is that in there? Is that helpful at all? I mean, I could put that in the application form and somewhere I have, you know, the application form shall be in a form approved by the board and that could be something we put in because I thought there might be a lot of little details like that that we could just stick in the form. I'll take note of that dimensions. Right, because I know that, you know, we're imagining all different shapes and sizes of lunch cards or whatever you want to call them, but I do think like a lot of them they're manufactured for the purpose. So there might be kind of a standard, a series of standard sizes. I'm thinking, yeah, Doug. I mean, speaking of the dimensions, I know I think the dimensions are, are useful piece of information. And I think the other thing is that we should, along with this just internally, it's not a regulation thing I take for each of the pre-approved locations to sort of measure off the, and I'm not saying we need to mark up the sidewalks with like paint or anything, but kind of go to those spaces. And this is something that Rob Mora and you, Steve, could probably really spend a little time with. I mean, I think the select board actually did a walk about it, if I remember correctly, we went to some of those spots, but sort of lay out what's the dimension that fits here that doesn't block the sidewalk and, you know, and mobility for people that are, that are trying to get by on the sidewalk with the wheelchair or other, you know, supports like that. So, you know, then it, you know, and to eat the location, sort of define those dimensions in which it must sit, for no other reason than just so that when we come in and look at it and we look at dimensions that someone's given us like, does that fit the spot or not fit the spot? You know, that's a bit of triage that we could do, you know, in advance. And so that we, you know, even when they're filling out the application, we're gonna say, you would know by looking at the, at the sort of, you know, locations and sizes, like, oh, you're not gonna fit on these three. So I can tell you right now, they're gonna say no to those, you know, even though we formally would do it at the, at the, at our meeting. I really like that idea, Doug, because, you know, I was kind of starting to move in that direction on the, on the issue of hours of operation, which we will get into in a minute, but I was saying maybe that would be set by location. And it would probably be a good service if, you know, it wouldn't really be all that much work to get the GIS out, you know, get a GIS, you know, maybe we move this some instead of in here, we have a, you know, another addendum document or something that has, you know, a page for each one with, you know, a little map of where you're allowed to be and the hours, the specific hours of operation. There might be some places where, you know, sure, it's just commercial around there. You know, you can be there till one if you want to. And there's other where, you know, you're right next to the retirement home, you know, maybe you should be in by six. And then, and maybe, you know, if you had two hot dog carts, I mean, in front of the, where the falafel guy is, you could fit a little hot dog cart there too. And that would allow, you know, if everybody fits within this regulated area. Yeah, I think that's a really good idea to maybe dive more into detail on those. And again, that doesn't necessarily need to be in regulation, but I think just as far as a frame for, you know, sort of helping the applicant as well as yourself. Yeah, yeah. It's business friendly because if you're new to the community, you just know you want to put a truck somewhere to have a guy that breaks it down for you would be very helpful. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And the west side of Kendrick Park, I mean, yeah, a lot of, you know, you have to Google where Kendrick Park is and then orient yourself and yeah, a lot of these things. I think that is a great idea. Thank you guys. At time of day restrictions and any free approved or requested location, I think that could definitely be important for, you know, somebody has some location in the neighborhood or something. And then, you know, some of these, I wasn't really thinking about it very much, but there might be somewhere it's in the middle of all nothing but commercial. And, you know, maybe it would be fine. You know, maybe the board would want it to say, yeah, anyone in this location is not near anything, or you can just go to midnight every night if you want to. And then, you know, I think we'll take a closer look at that. So this was just slightly changed from something we had, that Marion had there. So can operate in handicap spaces, commercial loading zones or other restricted spaces without, I added without special permission grants by the board for a particular date time because maybe there's, you know, if they block off the parking lot behind Antonio's for, you know, for a food truck festival or something and somebody's parked sideways across the loading zone in the handicap spot, you know, if it's all blocked off anyway, it doesn't matter. So. Oh, sure, sure. So other locations. Applicants may apply for permission to use locations other than those pre-approved. The board will consider these locations on a case-by-case basis. We'll make a determination weighing the interests of public safety and unreasonable disturbance to a butters. If approved, this location is added to a list of allowable locations for that particular licensee and the licensee may move between that location and the pre-approved location. So I accidentally forgot to copy over the butters notice. But I do think that is a good idea for other locations. And maybe we would kind of, you know, tweak that a little bit because maybe there's some places where we wouldn't want to do that. I think, you know, Miriam had some good language in there. We might want to make a little bit more specific with, you know, butters within what distance and, you know, would it just be the butters list from downstairs, which wouldn't necessarily go to every tenant or something. But I think we should, I think that is a good idea to have there in some form or another. But I just forgot to copy that over. So this language of weighing the interests of public safety and unreasonable disturbance to others, I thought, I guess that's mostly what we'd be concerned about. Right. The other thing I think about with regard to that language is that unreasonable disturbance to other butters also includes, although I expressly so, but it also includes, you know, other businesses. So, you know, if they want to pick a spot that's right in front of Miss Saigon or, you know, some other, you know, or Antonio's or something, I'm pretty sure Antonio's would be negatively effective. You put it, you know, the parking spot right in front of the restaurant. So, you know, those are, that's a disturbance to an abutter. So I think that covers that case as well. Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. I was just kind of thinking because most of those, you know, the abutter's notices that were provided for everything, for ZBA, to liquor license to everything, pretty much only goes to the property owner. And I wonder if we might want to make language about, you know, every common vixual licensee within 300 feet as well or something so that we can make sure the business owner actually gets it if they have an absentee landlord. Right. I mean, would saying tenant be the, I mean, because I think we're interested, not only in the feedback of the whoever owns a building, but the people living there as well, right? So... I think in a perfect world, absolutely. But we have no, the town doesn't really have any idea who lives in apartments or any kind of... To the residents of. I mean, I don't know if we even have, you know, if you have a, you know, let's say you have a four family apartment building, we wouldn't even know how they're numbered, really. Okay. We don't have any information about that. I mean, for literally everything else, ZBA to, ZBA actually, if there's a project in a building, the landlord's required to post it in the hallway. But I think it would be great if we could, but we just don't really have the database to do so, which at least with common vixual licensees, I have that information all of my fingertips so we could make sure it goes to them. So if you said something like a resident property owner or common vixual licensee. Is that... I mean, I would maybe say, you know, whatever the, you know, whatever the assessor's office puts out for the butters list, they're kind of the experts with that within 300 feet and any common vixual licensee within 300 feet. Okay. Sounds good. If I may just, you know, to that point, I think that if the, you know, Steve, if you have the street address, you know, we could ask the applicant to, I mean, the post office has every deliverable mail address within a given zone and within a given, you know, street address. So that's an alternative, you know, sort of like how many hoops you want to have them jump through, but that would be a way to access additional address, you know, information. Like if you wanted to send to the resident office and get all the people in particular, you know, apartment complex, it starts to be. I think especially for some of the short-term license that's a lot to do for. That's a good point to bring up the short-term. So I would almost wonder, you know, if there aren't, if it doesn't really seem right to have a butters notices for a short-term license, I think for an annual, certainly. I think I just put for a new annual one to the original draft, I don't remember, but I thought short-term, it's like. But like, let's say somebody wanted to, let's say somebody wanted to put, you know, a little push hot dog cart in between, like right where the, on the parking garage behind Antonio's, you know, kind of right by in between, like, you know, there's the kind of the stairway little building there that you can come up and then, you know, that center alleyway there in between the bank center that's heading towards Charlottetown Hall. Somebody wanted to set up a hot dog truck there and they had every resident, even if we were able to get that list from the post office, which, you know, we don't really have any professional relationship with them. But every, butter within 300 feet would be every single person and whaling, probably, you know, nine, I mean, I don't know how many units there are along the front of North Pleasant Street there, but 40 units maybe, 50, 60, it could get pretty crazy pretty quickly. I mean, I think it's really, I mean, I think that, you know, tenants are kind of underconcert in every public notice thing that the town does from ZBA to liquor licenses to everything, but I don't know how much we can reinvent the, you know, even if it's a much better wheel, I don't know how much we can reinvent the wheel for just lunch cards. Oh, guess what? Yeah, I mean, well, the lunch cards are less problematic because, you know, you can kick them out from one weekend to the next. So I think what we need is a prominent sign with the right phone number. I don't know if it's to call your office, Steve, for like any, you know, any concerns and complaints to call a certain number, so that you can have that comment period by people who are interested after the fact, after it goes up the first time. Yeah, I like that idea. I don't know how well they would take to, you know, complaints, call this number and have to stick that up on the side of their car, but maybe we can certainly put a very, I think we would probably want to use a different design for the license anyway, because we're gonna have some kind of specialized information. We could put a big, you know, inspection services with a big phone number at the bottom and... How do you like my driving? Call. Right. Steve will start getting complaints about bad hot dogs. I know. I was gonna say, you don't want to open up that, I can't a word. You don't want to have that hot dog stand in town. Applicants must be suggested to a taste test, and if less than three to the five of the licensed commissioners like it, they will have an application will be rechecked. That's definitely something to think about is, yeah, we'll do a little bit more brainstorming on that. So for the parking fees, I am meeting with the, oh, there we go. The parking fees. I am meeting with the collector's office on Monday or Tuesday to go over that, what they would like for the food trucks and a couple other things. So I think we'll revisit all this section. Availability. Oh, I skipped, yeah, look, actually, yes, I actually left this in double. So I skipped this when we were talking about it, but I left it in the regulations again so we can talk about it twice. So this was something that was, so yeah, this was something that wasn't addressed at all in the old regulations. And this is what Marion had had. And I do really, I mean, I think there's a million ways you can go about it. And it would be pretty unfair if somebody applied for a new license and then started taking the falafel guy's spot 15 minutes before he showed up every day. But I think that this is ultimately the right compromise because there's a million different dispute resolution techniques we can get into. And there's such a multitude of different disputes and things like that. And ultimately, we're regulators, not mediators, and I don't know how much. So I think that first part is the right compromise. The second part, I would be more open to that if it's a custom location. I think we'd have to tweak this location. It certainly shouldn't be in perpetuity because it's a long time. But I could kind of go either way with this. How about just an ordinarily, I mean, a statement about the norm is to respect where people have been putting the trucks. Can we, you know... I think a statement about respect would be good. That's all what, you know, I think that that is good to at least put our desire out there because it's just so hard whenever you get in because that circumstance is something just getting there half an hour before him every day is really unfair. But if you said he's the only one who can go there, I mean, I think he's been on vacation for like the last three weeks. And if there's somebody else who really wanted to go there, they just couldn't. Or if you left at two o'clock every day and somebody wanted to do a night shift there, then they just couldn't if it was reserved. So go ahead, Gaston. I mean, I was just going to say, if this is a problem, we can deal with it. It's not a problem now, so I'm not dressed for that. I liked, I like an idea of the statement about respect. So is that you're talking about that pertains to the sentence about the new location? Yeah, so for new locations, I guess that was just more. So there's kind of two parts, but I think this is the right compromise overall, but I do think it's good to, it's good to add something about, you know, you know, please be respectful of, you know, long-standing people who have long-standing regular locations or something. We'll have to think about that language, but I think it's good to include something like that. For this part about the new location, I wouldn't say first rights and perpetuity, but yeah, I was a little confused by this, but I think I was confused when I wrote this comment, but I think I understand now. I think you were just trying to say, he gets kind of first pick there for however long, but whoever applies that location first, I mean first, first, or is that what you're trying to say? I think so, it was a long time ago, but I think that's what it was. So I could kind of go either way about that. I mean, I can imagine, you know, maybe somebody and the location always jumped out to me is fantastic, because on the west side of Kendrick Park, or actually, is that already on there? It's already on there, I think. Yeah, it is. Wow, all right. People are way ahead of me, but I can imagine, you know, maybe somebody, no wonder it was in the top of my head, thank you Doug, I can imagine, you know, maybe somebody, you know, discovers a really good location that doesn't really bother too many people and gets really good business. And, you know, if we get multiple people applying for it, you know, probably we should eventually be making it into a, into a, into a permanent low, pre-approved location, but you know, I think again, we get in the same problem of reserve locations where, you know, somebody could reserve that location and then just never use it and then nobody else can if they want, I mean, I guess it's just kind of an edge circumstance of if some, if, you know, multiple people want the same location, but it could happen. I mean, if we get more business, somebody finds a location that's not, that's really working out. And so if that happens, you know, I think again, if that person, the first person who finds it is going on vacation for a month, the other person then just can't use it. If it's just, you know, the first, the first person has kind of a higher seniority than he can just show up and kick the other guy out. I kind of thought, I kind of really, you know, I don't know, I feel, I feel like, I think there is a lot, I'd be interested to hear what you guys are thinking about this, but I think it really ultimately does usually just come back to how much does few resolution can we really get into as a regulatory board? So here's the thing I'm thinking about is that, if it's a new location, you know, that's going to be something that's added to that particular applicant's license. They're the only one that has the right to be in that location at that point, because everybody else that has a license only can be in the places that are either pre-approved or are on their license. So it only becomes a thing if a second, you know, license requests that place. Yeah, exactly. Oh, at the same time, right? Yeah, exactly. So it would have to be like on a renewal, like if, like let's say I picked something and like I found a spot on Cole's Lane in North Amherst that I think is the bomb because our friends at Jake's aren't open. So I'm going to set up my little egg cart, you know, there. And suddenly, you know, so I get my license, I'm the only one that can go to there because, you know, I'm the only one that's got that approved on their license. But then when we go to renewal, someone else may go, oh, then it's, that's a good spot. I think if that happens, they would have to that, that second person would have to then put it on the renewal application that they'd like another spot. And I think what we would have to do at that point is recognize, oh, this is a spot that multiple people have requested. Do we add it to our list of pre-approved spots? And then the standard rules apply about kind of first come first serve and, you know, all things we've been discussing. So I think, you know, in some ways, the new spot is kind of a good way for, if you're coming to town, one of the best things you can do is find a new spot because it's yours essentially because your license is the only one that's gonna have that allowed. And then, you know, so I think that's, you know, if I was advising a food cart person, I'd say, hey, find a really good spot that's not on the pre-approved list because you're kind of an exclusive rights to that spot until the renewal process and then others may want to be on that spot as well. So I think we don't, it doesn't create a problem until renewal time. And then we can consider whether it needs to be a pre-approved spot or not. I think that's a great idea, Doug. And I realize I've been kind of jumping around a lot during this discussion, but that also made me think, you know, it would probably make sense if annual licensees can apply for a special location mid-cycle. I don't see why we wouldn't. And that kind of got me thinking that, I guess we won't go too deep into this, but I mean, if we're gonna have a buttersnose requirements for an annual location and one of our annual licensees wants to do a little try out a new location. I mean, maybe we would have figured, you know, do some kind of short-term authorization of that location, but that's a rabbit hole. I'll write something out when we, when I clean this up, but... It's an alteration of license. It would be like when, you know, liquor license changes their manager. They've got to come back and tell us about the new location and we can approve it or disprove it or whatever at that point. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So you think it should just, so if there is that kind of mid-cycle, you know, alteration of license dynamic, would you say that you're in your framework, Doug, that it's just the first person to get it, just does get it until they don't renew the license or until it's made into a pre-approved location? Yeah. Cause the thing is, is that, you know, the way we've done it earlier in the document, we basically said, if you, you know, request a new location, we evaluate whether you, you know, it makes sense. And we say, yes, we put that location on your license. Everybody else's license doesn't have that because it didn't exist before now. So it doesn't, by default, automatically guarantee that spot to everybody else as an available, like the pre-approved. So that's why I read the regulation, is that, you know, a new location is not part of the pre-approved list. So if you, as an individual, have gotten a new location and gotten that approved by us, you're really the only one that can be there because you've been vetted with us. And the thing is, is everybody else, you know, you should be excluded, partly because we need to evaluate whether or not their cart fits in that location. I mean, just as a simple sort of, you know, like let's say you've got a small cart you fit, and we say, okay, that's okay for the, you know, this is a new location, it works for you, great fit in the spot, safe for people to be around. And then there's somebody else that has a pre-approved license that wants to be there, but their cart's not the right size. We would need to have, we'd need to review that. So they'd have to do either, like we were saying, a mid-year, you know, alteration of their license, or we wait until the real time and see if anybody wants to apply for that new spot. You know, we've got to still apply the metrics of safety to whether somebody can use that new spot. So, no, I definitely agree with you there. I think the question I'm trying to bring up is, is, you know, somebody gets a new special spot and we'll say it's that, you know, that area by above the garage there, like we were saying, and somebody else applies for it, because they want to, you know, could we issue special spot approval for more than one? And if not, how long does that first person get to just claim it exclusively? The first year, until they don't renew the license? I would suggest that if in that circumstance where, you know, sort of one person did a special spot, if a second person, you know, two months later requests it as well, and we feel like it sort of fits, then those two people have access to the spot and it falls back to this, you know, general rule of availability. Okay, yeah, that's kind of exactly what I was thinking with deleting this blue stuff. So, yeah. It becomes a reality show that may the best truck win. Yeah. I know. I mean, the only thing I worry about is that we make it too confusing for people looking at pulling the license, you know, that we're not regulating people away who might be wanting to bring a food truck to Amherst. Okay, you know, let them come and then let's work on some of these issues. I think what we would probably do, where I would probably do is probably make a new document for a guideline to applying for a food truck stuff because it's super confusing with health too. And then this kind of comes in and it would probably be a good time to make a, and once we've done with this project, it could be a good time to make, you know, not everything's spelled out in sections in regulatory language, but just, you know, layman's guide, this is what you have to do. You can request a special swan if you want to and cover the whole health process too. So it's kind of a one-stop shop for anybody who's coming in. Although I will say a lot of those mobile food people who do bounce from town to town are pretty grizzled with this kind of stuff because they get to deal with it everywhere they go. Right. But I think we'll, let's see how he says something. I think we'll move on from that point. Hours of operation. We have here, kind of similar to what we had before, should be approved by the board. Have to be open if they're there. Can't be there outside the hours of operation. And I kind of had the idea of, rather than somebody specifying their hours of operation, which seems like kind of a fiction with a mobile food truck to me because, you know, I'm sure the full off, you know, I think my experience, the full offal guy, you know, he might not come one day. He might have something to do. He might pack in early if it's really hot or if it's raining, he's getting no business. So I thought, and you know, maybe, I think it probably would make sense, like we were saying earlier, to do it on a per location basis potentially, but just kind of have blanket hours that you could be open during these times. And if you want to be open later, special approval by the board on a per location basis. So if you want to be open until midnight at Kendrick Park, then you kind of have to apply for that. And it's, how are you guys thinking of it? Is there the question, is there any kind of business where we would want to restrict the hours? I mean, if there isn't, then your proposal seems fine to me. I mean, I've gotten a lot of interest this year, actually, nothing that's actually materialized for a lot of interest of late night, like, you know, open till one or two in the morning. And I'm totally in favor of that as long as the locations all right, but I can, we've never, we haven't had that in at least a long time. Not in my time of being an Amherst anyway. And I can imagine that definitely ruffling some feathers. Right, so that works with the idea of having a standard time of, you said before midnight, I don't know if that's too late for some areas. I was saying, you're kind of, everybody can be open 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. And if you want to be, I'm totally open, I kind of pulled these out of a hat. So if people think different times are appropriate or setting, I mean, like Hallie was saying, we don't want to make it too complicated. So maybe we wouldn't want to set hours of operation for each different pre-approved spot. Or maybe we would, I don't know, but, you know, I would say. Yeah, I think this is really good, yeah. Thank you. Now I was just kind of thinking, yeah, 8 a.m. to 8 p.m., you're always good. And if you want to be open later than that, we'll give you that approval on a per location basis. I mean, would 8 a.m. be disruptive anywhere? That's what I'm asking in which case a later start time, I don't know. Yeah, we can think about those times. I kind of just pulled it out of a hat. I mean, 8 a.m., I mean, that's before the sun sets in June. Those days we're starting to miss, but. So traffic obstruction, pretty much the same. Just changed the title a little bit and replaced the lunch cart with mobile food establishment. This was somewhere else here, and I just stuck it in the section to kind of consolidate it. Oh, great, okay. Just dropped loud music because you probably don't want soft music either. Yeah, we're using sound invocation. And I said outside of pre-approval for special events. I mean, I don't know. I'm sure there's like a fried dough truck at the carnival that might have music or something, but kind of keep it for normal things. Brass recycling unchanged. I put this, I know we had kind of done a lot of discussion with this topic. So I put this in a section called Pollution. I don't know if anybody has a different title or maybe I'm sure there's some other kind of health type things we could stick in there. Limitation of available licenses. Sorry, just on that, I think electric batteries is the other thing. Yes, I'll put that in my paper notes here. You might call pollution mitigation. Oh, good. That sounds a lot better. We don't want to sound like we're pro pollution. That's what it, yeah, that's kind of how it sounds now. It's like we're encouraging it. Oh, the other thing just on that topic is that we may want to mention is that the cart must comply with all town regulations regarding containers and serving materials and that sort of stuff. Because it's like you can't do non-recyclable to-go stuff, you know, you can't use Styrofoam. So that needs to be there. I mean, more for informational purposes, but we should make it clear that those regulations or that we apply to all our brick and mortar businesses should apply here as well. I think that's a great point and that fits in perfectly with pollution mitigation title. So limitation of available licenses. I remember, I think Doug had mentioned that that was a contentious discussion when the select board originally adopted these, or maybe I was talking with Alyssa. I was talking to somebody, but I guess that was, was that you, Doug, that was talking to you about that? It might have been Alyssa. Might have been Alyssa, okay. But I think she said that it was kind of contentious when, you know, the number, when this came there, they did a lot of thinking about it, but I think we'd probably be, if any, if past time, we'd be really successful if we came anywhere near these limits. Oh, I know. And, you know, I don't really know if it's that necessary. Rob had a good idea of maybe the board may choose to put a limitation if, you know, if we hit, I don't know, I wouldn't say six and four, but I'd say maybe if we hit eight and six or something that the board may choose to put a cap on it, if, you know, we start having real runaway problems with people fighting over spaces and things. Could we say put a cap or restrict days and hours of operations? You know, maybe we say you can come Monday, Wednesday, Friday and this truck can come Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday or something like that. Yeah. I like that idea, but I think that would almost require a wholesale revision of the regs because then we're talking about designating spots and I think that would be probably the best move if we actually did have out of control over population of food trucks, but that would almost feel like if we put it in here, it would almost require like a whole second set of regulations. Right. How about triggering like a public comment whenever we hit a certain new number of licenses or something that we put it on the agenda for comment from the town? Yeah. Maybe the board may limit the number of licenses available after a public hearing if there's problems or something. Right. So what I would suggest there is that we not pick a number because it may be one of those things where knowing the number is going to be hard to figure out. You know, sort of like the whole thing about pornography. I know it when I see it kind of thing, you know, but I think that, you know, the other thing I think about just to begin with this and finish with the other point I'm going to make, which is just that, you know, you get your license and issue in January. If the problem pops up in, you know, August, you know, we don't want to penalize or punish, you know, all those people who came first because somebody else, you know, came in and suddenly tipped the scale in a way that doesn't make sense. So some of it's on us to issue the license. So some of what we may want to put here is that, you know, just that the, you know, that the board will review the number of licenses and the active use of those licenses in determining whether to issue any new licenses. And so that gives us the ability to say, we can't issue the license. We love you, we'd love to have it, but just given who we've got on right now and how busy they are and how much they're showing up, we're going to restrict that circumstance. And so that way we don't penalize people that are already here. And we also, you know, can tell the, I mean, well, you know, the person won't, I mean, they'll get a rejected license and, you know, they won't get the license to begin with and then have expectations changed. So I think that may be a way to approach it too, is that, you know, you know, the board reserves the right upon issuing new licenses to determine whether or not there's still capacity in the town for, you know, new applicants. Yeah. You don't have to pick a number because, you know, it's like, you know, the pull-up of guys always Monday, Wednesday and Friday, you know, and so, you know, there's some time available on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday or whatever. Great, you should know the license, but if, if he's there six days a week and there's, you know, and every other spot's filled too, then it's like, well, we just don't issue the license to begin with. It's like, sorry, we just don't have the space or capacity. No, I think that's a really good idea. And Hallie, I really liked your idea too. And I'm thinking more about it. I think we could put that in, in kind of just a couple of sentences. And yeah, yeah, we could definitely, you know, add that, that the board will, you know, take into consideration, you know, if I'm just restating this correctly, Doug, the board would, and maybe we just make a, make a sentence, I wouldn't call it overcrowding, but I mean, a section, I wouldn't call it overcrowding, but, you know, a section kind of about this problem. And, you know, the board will, you know, take into consideration, you know, the current population of, you know, how would you phrase it, Doug, succinctly? I would say that, you know, and I think you can call it limitation on available license, or on new licenses would be, the board will consider existing licenses and their operational hours when issuing new licenses and may restrict or deny an application based on preexisting licenses. Yeah, and Hallie, we could, we could maybe, I was thinking maybe, you know, we could, you know, if, you know, if there's a high incidence of, you know, overcrowding or disputes between, you know, mobile food operators that, you know, the board reserves the right to, you know, restrict licenses to certain locations and times or under, I don't know, it's not really exigent circumstances, but phrase it something like that, that'd be a little bit more succinct. I was kind of thinking that we would have to describe the process by which we restrict that, but I guess at that point, you know, it's probably will never happen. And if at that point, you know, you just gotta do what you gotta do. Yeah. I mean, I don't think we need to say anything, but if we did, it wouldn't necessarily have to be processed. We could identify the kinds of considerations, impact on neighboring businesses, on the neighborhood, you know, on health. I mean, we could create a laundry list. I don't know if we really need to, but the purpose would be to be clear that we're not just being discriminatory. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, no, I think all those ideas come together pretty well. So. Well, I think that, you know, some of our earlier stuff in here, you know, relative to issuing licenses and considerations we have are still the ones we would apply in that circumstance, unless there's, you know, additional things that we consider. Cause I think we consider space and functionality and safety and butters and butters include other, you know, licensees, in a sense. Yeah. That's true. All right, so I'll put all those thoughts together into something and bring them back for next time. Concerns and complaints about lunch card operations. I think this needs a little bit of fleshing out. It was kind of running out of time. So I'll kind of spell out a little bit more about, you know, what, what officials you would go to. And I think we have language in like the short-term license about, you know, delegates the police chief as authority. So we delegate, you know, the building commissioner or the police chief and his designee, so we'll go in there. Healthies for non-compliance. I think we'll also want to stick something about, you know, non-criminal enforcement, you know, fees and things like that, because these regulations govern not just a license but all operation and mobile food establishment in a public way. And if the punishment for operating without a license is to revoke your license, then that's not a very good deterrent, is it? Yeah. And so this was kind of, we had that kind of weird language from the original, the original regulation, the select board regulation, saying providing written notice to lunch card licensees. Oh, right, I remember that, yeah. And it's not really, you know, clear as to what form that would take. So, there's sort of things being the mail and stuff that we'd have to kind of think about things a lot more than just the 48 hours that we normally post things. So I figured just, I think, but I think it's good to notify the licensees. So I said annual licensees, we provide a notice via electronic mail, at least 48 hours prior to any meeting at which the board votes to change the regulation. So it was kind of paralleling the agenda posting and everything. We have to worry about the mail, so. Great. Well, that's wonderful, fantastic. Thank you. Well, thank you guys all for both your, your hard work on getting to this point and Marion for drafting a great set for me to work off of. And all this feedback was really, really helpful. So. Yeah. It's nice to take a deep dive. Yeah, I know. Now all we need are the lunch cards. Making me hungry. I could deep dive in with falafel, that's for sure. I know, I was just thinking about that. Yeah. Okay, super. So we'll look forward to more of this next time. And if you have any ideas. So Steve, you said you're meeting with the parking people. And you talk to me. Okay, great. And then you talk to Susan, right? About all that you ran this by her. I've had a lot of conversations with Susan about this over the years. I kind of wanted to get it into this shape before I did. So I'm going to try to put all these things in. Because Susan's, she knows the food code like the back of her hand. Yeah, okay. So I think the most valuable feedback we get for her is with something that's, where could this really conflict with that or hold that up? So yeah, I will. I kind of integrate a lot of things I've heard from her into this. And I'll kind of show her the specific draft. And I went over with Rob too. So yeah, I optimistically put voted by the board of licensed commissioners in September XX 2022. So that would be good. That would be great. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. Super. Okay. So should we go on to where we license fee comparison? Yes. Yeah. So I actually, I think that we wanted to address this in our first September meeting. I had it on my calendar to work on this next week. So I've got it scheduled. All right. Super. Thank you. Okay. Guidelines, regulations for liquor licenses, and a draft went around from Hallie and. And this, I was behind on, this was just an incorporated Ryan or council's comments into new draft. Oh, it did. Okay. I mean, the document looks great. Hallie, I, you know, I saw a minor one like typo, but I think the conceptual question I wanted to just kind of have us reflect on just to make sure I understand it. Right. Is that this kind of organizes in one place law that's coming from different places? And so I just wanted to be, do we have the language we need to say that it's the other sources that are more, that are binding so if like state law changes that that's going to control not our guidelines and that kind of like, that kind of cautionary language is, I guess the only thing I was wondering about. I mean, we can ask. Do you all, do you see what I'm, do you see the point? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, one, one place you can kind of creep some text for that. I think if you look at the town bylaws, the set that was most recently adopted at the end of June, there's a, there's in the sort of introductory pages, there's some place in there where it says that, you know, any changes to, you know, any references to state law, you know, and changes to that law are inclusive and whole precedent or something like that. So there's some language there you can borrow, I think the other thing that you see a lot in contracts sometimes too, and I think it works in regulation is the separability thing that says if any portion of these regulations are found to be, you know, no longer valid or effective, the remainder stays in effect, you know, that kind of thing. So there's some standard separability language too that could be put in there. But I think I saw it in the town by law, you know, it's a massive five hundred and seventy page document, but I think it's literally the first four or five pages where it has some paragraph that has that kind of, you know, inclusive language of, you know, all applicable laws of the state and such and such, and that if they change, that supersedes any references to the statutes you might reference. Perfect. I'm talking right now. Can you take it downstairs? Thank you. Sorry. Perfect. I will go look for the bylaws and add that. The only little typo, I mean, since you're just on that is in number 21, health instead of heath. Yeah, but I mean, I think a very helpful document for our applicants. You already have the severability section in there. I'm sorry. I knew I'd seen that someplace. It was already in here. Yeah. Yeah, I'll go through and just double check. Make sure. I think that's a, I think that's really fantastic, Allie. Yeah, that's really good. I'm happy to kind of format it into our house style here, but I think that's really good. Yeah, that'd be wonderful. Okay. And the only suggestion I would make is, just while this is fresh in your mind, is maybe just for our internal use, is just kind of, just make a note of like, kind of like what Doug was saying, just make a note of what comes from state law and what comes from like our own town policy, because that way, you know, in four or five years when somebody's looking back at this and the board might want to tweak something, they can see if it kind of traces back to state law or if it's just a local thing that could be changed easily. Okay. We'll do that. Okay. I'll hopefully I'll get those changes and back to you guys by next meeting. Okay. Great. Fantastic. Thank you. Oh, general letter to look at licensees following state investigations. Okay. So this goes back to, as you know, the ABCC hearing on the Hazel's Blue Lagoon and there was another one at Watroba's Steve. Yes. Yes. And I'll let Steve talk to you about that in a second. We talked about like sending a general letter to everybody over the summer, the students are gone. And Steve and I were talking and thought maybe we could do one, students are back. There have been maybe some ABCC hearings. Please keep this in mind. Here's the kind of card reader you should have, something along those lines. Yeah. So I actually have a topic not anticipated that even came up after last time I spoke to you, Marion. Oh, no way. I did get the results of the Hazel's hearing and they issued an eight day suspension to be served, I believe the first week of October, sorry, October, which is, I mean, thinking back to our conversations with Porta and they were barely recommending like anything but a warning for the first defense. I thought that was quite severe. So. Yeah. Wow. I mean, you're talking about sort of sending a letter. I think, yeah, the reminder, you know, I think the reminder that ABCC does enforcement on their own is something that may not have ever crossed anyone's mind. I mean, they certainly come before us and think about sort of local enforcement of those things, but there is this, you know, just to remind them or make them aware of the state agency can just roll up on your doorstep and enforcement. I think that's a useful piece of that letter. And obviously just a general reminder, it's like, hey, students are down, they're likely to be wanting to try to, you know, press their, you know, false IDs in front of you and try to, you know, get you to sell them, you know, improperly. And so that's an important message. And obviously, yeah, if we have recommendations about scanners and things like that, that's useful. Okay, great. Thanks, that's really great. Any other suggestions for the letter? And hopefully, we'll have those. I was actually thinking that that suggestion might be good for the guidelines that Hallie's prepared. Oh, yeah. It might be a valuable reminder towards the top there that we're not the only enforcement body if it's not already. Yeah, that's a great point. Oh, and I realized I forgot to enter your question, Mary. And yeah, what Trobas was, I think this happened right before we got word of the Hazel's violation and that's why, I think it was right before we kind of, I settled on sending everything along to the board, but they had a underage service violation where, and that's the one up on Sunderland Road, where I guess I'll send you along the report and the Hazel's investigative decision right after we're off this meeting. But what the fact pattern was for Trobas is that the investigators saw two young looking people walk outside with alcohol. They identified themselves and asked to see their IDs and they showed him out of state fakes. And so I guess that with Trobas, he did card them, but didn't, he said he was on the phone with a shopkeeper around the corner or something because there was a shoplifter or something going around and he was focused on that problem and didn't scan those two people, even though he usually does, and they happened to be underage. So the ABCC cited them and they did suspend his license for a day. So two days maybe, I'll send you along the report, but. Oh, that would be great, thank you. It's the interesting thing with the way the law is written. If somebody gives you a Massachusetts ID, I mean, really if it's any higher quality than drawn on crayon, even if it's fake, you have complete immunity from liability or passport, but if it's an out of state ID, you can't rely on it at all. If somebody had a perfect out of state ID and it turned out they were underage somehow, you'd still be liable. So even if it's gant, it's kind of crazy, but. All right. Okay, so we will, I will get a draft. Should I work on the draft of that, Steve and shoot that over to you? Yeah, yeah, okay, okay. And then for distribution and suggestions, great, great. Okay, topics, not reasonably anticipated 48 hours prior to the meeting. Is there anything else? Besides that, Hazel's result, I don't have anything else. Wow, that's a, yeah. Okay, so our next meeting is gonna be September 1st, Thursday at five, if that works for everybody. Okay. And, oh, are there any, are there any minutes? I didn't see any, right? Hi, well, I was going to, I had a bunch of time for license commission. I was gonna get those together, but I spent all the time working on. Lunch cart, lunch cart. But I will have some time in the next couple of weeks. So I'm gonna try to really catch up on a bunch of things and kind of, yeah, I get some feedback and for you, Doug, and reformat that a little bit for you, Hallie, if you want us to know along, I'm just gonna try to catch up on that, catch up on some minutes and get up to speed before the students really kick in. Yeah, right. Okay, great. Thank you. All right. Is there a motion to adjourn? So moved. Thank you, Doug. Is there a second? I second. Thank you, Hallie. We'll take a vote. Doug. Hi. Hi, Hallie. Hi. Best of all. Hi. And I support a zero of one absent. We're adjourned at 641 PM. Okay, so super meeting. Thanks, everybody. See you next time. Yeah, thank you all as always for your service. Your help was really helpful today. And yeah, thank you. Take care. All right. All right. Thanks to you. Bye-bye.