 So yeah, so this is a sort of new idea we have so what We wanted Was a way to sort of let you know beside the scene. So we give all these courses like you see us answering issues you see us Like teaching here, but really who are we and how did we get here? So Mmm My personal goal here was to sort of like demystify the kind of career we have so we can open up More possibilities for y'all that are listening to this course like why would you want to? Consider working for someone like us instead of the other options So I have some small Questions prepared and Thomas and I can sort of have a discussion and I guess anyone any other instructors can Jump in at any time if they're interested Yeah, so that's the idea so if you have comments, I mean Please say so So Thomas, um What's your background like how did he start off your career? Well, okay, I started initially studying bioinformatics went into protein structure analysis and these kind of things then did a PhD in Metabolic modeling was constraint-based models linear programming and so on and Before before joining here was a postdoc again on this metabolic modeling and Essentially the the whole time I kind of had the impression Yeah, I'm not I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing and what I enjoyed most was helping people with comparatively smaller tasks normally so Some some technicians who had problems with their way or who had to enter Stuff into extra sheets all the whole time Which could simply be automated by a small script that I wrote them Stuff We're supporting people with a toolbox that I was co-developing Metabolic modeling and These kind of things so essentially helping people was something that I enjoyed actually a lot more than the research itself Partially because There's research it was always the Yeah, okay, you have to you have to publish this you have to make this publishable. There was a lot more I would say pressure in a way on getting results the and there was a lot less Yeah, for me a lot less reward like Like reward that I felt where where I had the impression that what I was doing was really something useful There were the work the work samples where I had where I noted. Okay. Yeah We actually can do something useful, but that was again where we were working with some groups where we had an Interaction we were to some extent helping them do something. Mm-hmm. So so it's just like going outside the Publication cycle or something like that like or yeah, I'm too broad To me Well, when I when I finished my last post I was like, okay, I I liked what I was doing in general but There were two things that I didn't really like and one thing was the whole short-term Contracts that were omnipresent in academia. So if I would have gotten a permanent postdoc position. Yep Okay, that I would have been happy with yeah, and the other it was the This this Impression that a lot of the science that was out there or that was done in my field Mainly got published in higher impact journals if the right names were on it not necessarily because of the Of by the the quality of the research was actually better Mm-hmm. And this whole yeah cycle was kind of Not appealing. Mm-hmm. So after that last poster guys actually say, yeah, I Don't want to have this anymore You know, so I guess that sort of answers my next question. What led you to transition to research support? Yeah, how did you actually make this transition? Like when did you realize? Oh, there's an option and I have the skills for it Actually That was After When we when we moved over to Finland my wife or just started in alto as a researcher and I Wanted to stay at home with the kids and Shortly after we after moved over on my actually not that shortly There was the first time they all I think it was the second RSE position that was advertised with alto Mm-hmm. I did apply for that as well in that round didn't Wasn't take it taken on but Essentially Yeah The this this that was kind of the first time that I really noticed this RSE kind of position because while I was still Working as a postdoc. We had we did hire a bioinformatician at the time Which was also something where I thought okay, there are a couple of things that Essentially any biosciences that should have and one of them is probably bioinformatician one of them is probably a bio statistician and I hadn't ever heard of a research software engineer Yeah, so what is research software engineer? I guess that's RSE Well to me it's helping people with coding issues Not with I need my excel installed or something but more I Have code that is that I can't get to run on Triton for whatever reason I have I can't get Some libraries installed on the on the cluster I've code that works, but it's terribly slow For whatever reason and I well it's all it's in a state That's either close to publishing or already published, but we would like to reuse it and Yeah, but we don't really have the time to go dig in and Analyze that so So is it sort of like being the computational generalist that can do anything for people To some extent yes Or at least having having the having a general overview of how to program how to how to code having probably a bit of a deeper knowledge on How to structure code so that it's usable or more broadly reusable How to Get a useful interface for some code that is otherwise Very difficult to access Yeah Yeah, the these a lot of it is these kind of things that You code a lot you code along you do use you do your stuff and at some point, you notice. Oh, I might need to reuse this Oh, this will be This would be a lot of work to make it actually reusable again because it's so focused on one specific task and The knowledge of how to hide the avoid this from the beginning That is something I think that a research software engineer should at least Well learn during their career. Is it like a programmer for a research group sort of or Yeah, yes, yes to some extent It's Okay, well, maybe let's just engineer. I would say is is is more about how to structure the code and how to Get the code in a shape that is understandable then designing a most a designing well designing the Solution to a problem Because I mean, I've I guess we don't do this as much at Alto, but I've heard some RSEs They might actually be doing this like solution designing or like You know starting earlier, but I guess that just how it is Yeah It's potentially just teaching teaching a group the best practices of using github Using version control and these kind of things. That's also part of the RC job So should we move on to the next question? So there's from hack MD Someone asked do you think that what you learned in academia can be reused outside in the real world? And what is that thing? Which I guess what is that thing means? What's the real world? Any comments on that? Also, I have a comment too that I could I think that that that is a good question the problem I think a lot of stuff that you learn in academia can be reused The problem is a lot of it will not It could be it will not so it's more the more specialist knowledge that you have them less likely It is that this particular special knowledge will actually be reused Partially due to If you know one specific Kind of let's take an experimental some some kind of experimental setup It's very likely that whatever company you go in has a different setup Or at least to some extent different setup that you need to learn what you can use is Understanding how this setup works So if you got the general knowledge on how how is this set up and what are the different parts of it? That is something that you can reuse so a lot of it comes down to you are With a good academic background here. You're probably good at adapting to two things and Yeah, that's I think what makes it different or Yeah, where where stuff can be reused Yeah Once I was at a really great talk. This was like 2014 Maybe it was here at Alto. I can't find any evidence of this talk any of the material anything like that but it was what can a PhD no What use does the PhD have in a company and this was actually an amazing talk it was something like You know, what do you do is the PhD so it's things like you take a problem No one knows the answer to and you do research you study existing sources and you figure out a solution Even if it means working on it for a very long time You know how to write things in a clearly clear way, you know how to give presentations and these are I mean, these are not obvious things like this is something that is like Yeah, that's a very new Yeah, that's not your specialist knowledge. That's your General knowledge that you that you get by being an academia. Yeah, and I think that given people are always reinventing themselves anyway Then this is like not a bad thing to go sort of transitioning and learning different specialist knowledge and reapplying your generalist knowledge There's a question here. How long did it take for you to get the hang of scientific computing? Hang of scientific computing I'm not sure if I already kind of have it it This is how long does it take you to get the hang of computing in general? Yeah, I think that I think there's the difference between I'm able to write a Script that tell I'm able to write a script Yeah, and I'm able to structure code so that it So that I can actually reuse parts of it at least that is I think where Where I would draw the line between not having not getting the hang and getting the hang of it This can be pretty quick This can take quite some time depending on your depending on your environment and What? Yeah, essentially what teachers you have Yeah Yeah, I would tell us what is the hang of scientific? Yeah, I Bet if you ask any one of us we would say we're still getting the hang of it like we're still learning Things and that's sort of like maybe getting the hang of it is learning that you'll never know any everything and You're just constantly able to learn new things as you need to Yeah, for example now now I'm looking at the projects that we currently get a lot of it is about web servers and web server development and Yeah, I have I essentially hadn't done any web server stuff before starting here. So Is this scientific computing or is this not scientific computing I think it is Because it gives the it gives the sign or it gives access to the science, but on the other hand it's not It's not scientific code as such Because it's kind of the scientific code itself. I would actually say that as an RSE You might want to you might have the job of optimizing it But developing the scientific code is up to the scientist kind of The scientist should have should come up with the idea on Of a certain how to implement it how to optimally implement it that could be an RSE but the idea the the the the pseudo code algorithm Well a little bit more than the and the pubes fee that that is up to the researcher. Yeah Okay We're running short on time so if there was someone who's just It's a standard question I always ask what do you know now that you wish someone had taught you when you first started your career as a scientist To be well, um I think what Is now There very much a different topic for me because I at some point got the impression. Okay. Well there Um, I think it finished. It's less than in Germany for example, but I I once Said to myself. Well if anyone asks me what I should do I would say well if you if you want to get a Let's say steady reasonable reasonable Income have a life locally Probably rather look for some kind of apprenticeship or vocational school While if you don't have any idea what you actually want with life The the studying um route is At least it has a much higher chance of of giving you an overview of the world So, uh I I after doing my undergraduates. I was uh, it was essentially I know nothing. I have no idea what I'm doing, um I I felt I felt like okay. I I still need to learn so much and even after finishing my phd. I was like, okay yeah, I have some idea about this field now, but uh, yeah, I still don't know a lot and um Yeah, if I would have started off, um, essentially going to a pro kind of programming school or Starting to become a programmer right after school. Um, I would probably be in a decent living as well It And even if if uh, well the the most steady, uh The jobs will probably still be um, some kind of carpentry. Uh, that is always needed or well Anything that's to do with plumbing If you have the stomach for it. Yeah Okay, so now we're At the limit of our time Right now, I guess we can keep asking questions or answering and asking questions via hack md And we can return to this topic Either in smaller discussions or in our next course. I think that this was a Um, stimulating discussion And good for young people