 Welcome to Toffy TV, this is the final word Liverpool 5-event and two, joined by Steve and Andy on this dark day, discussion of mawling. The first time I've seen a five in a derby for 37 years, I was there on the Howard Kendall, a five no home defeat. It was horrific, last night was equally horrific. The good times came after that, whether they happened this time, we'll see. The manager of the teams, because at the time of recording this, Michael Silver is still, they haven't managed it but according to reports it won't be for much longer. I mean my feelings are, I wasn't overly surprised by what I saw because we've been kind of sleepwalking into a performance like this I think for the last few weeks. I mean what did you make of the team playing off first and the same team that started on Sunday? I had a lot of problems with Sunday and I know many people did because we did play reasonably well against last time but again before the game I did say I thought that. I know people said they had a good game Sunday but tactically he's just a bit naive and he's a little disciplined and he gets too far high open. We don't really unfortunately because we've got a centre that have the right system to sort of deal with that and then the midfield again. Tom tried his best last night but Guilffy Siginson presses to I, gets caught. So when I saw the team I thought we're going to have problems here because it's too open and I think a back three against quick teams. Lest they don't play the same system as Liverpool, lest they don't have like wingers, we're going to cut inside and score goals. When you played back three, you opened those channels in behind the full backs, the wing backs and that was a concern. I don't know, we can't play a back three, I just don't think we can play a back three. When they thought, when it's all we did, they thought it's going to be four or five here. I was asked like yes, they buy someone before they went to game what scores they're going to miss it. I'd say Liverpool minus three or minus two because I just knew they'd be beaten this by a good score. And we've been, as you say, we've been sleepwalking into this. Now this is a long point. But we've been sleepwalking into this but we knew it was going to happen. That's why we knew this amount of game was common because we was left in charge of these two games because, let's be honest, no one wanted to take them off them and you're so really evident. You've got people because, and they weren't even that good last night, let's be honest. Stech. Yeah, very much the same. It's just the team he picked. I wasn't surprised by what team he picked. Did I think it was the right team? No, because there are certain individuals in it maybe. I think if you're going to play Tom Davison, Guilffy Sigarton, you're asking for trouble, unfortunately. I felt sorry for Tom last night because he was doing two-man's jobs as well. And he ended up getting booked because of it in the end. And he ended up probably getting taken off because of that. He had no legs left because he can't run around on the pitch. But at least he tried to show a bit of fighting, put his foot in, and getting people's faces on their bloke next to him. You go into the game thinking it's probably going to be five or six, but you never really expected it to happen. And you're still angry. I was fuming last night. Even though it was going to happen, you've always got that feeling thinking you never know if you might pull something out of the bag. You've got that hope. That's what keeps you going in the match. You have to have it done. I had no issue with him playing the five at the back to be honest. I didn't, didn't have any issue. My issue came when I saw Guilffy Sigarton playing. It's the manner in which you lose. If you're playing at Amfield, you know how Liverpool play. The wing backs give them the width. They want long balls in behind you because they're quick. It's the right tactic. You play short, you play long. No problem with that. So to deal with that, Liverpool didn't do anything by surprise last night. So to deal with that, you say to your three centre backs, sit on the edge of our box. Now people might go, well that's inviting pressure on. It's not inviting pressure on against the team that plays quickly on the counter attack. If you're playing on the half-way line, because one ball takes five years off the game. So if we just sat on the edge of our box, I thought what he should have done was that snaddling in there. Now anyone watches this knows that Morgan snaddling like Mike, you know, I'm not as big as Frank by any stretch. But we haven't got another defensive midfield player at the moment because Fabian Delft's out injured. We've lost Gabbaman. We haven't had that sort so we can't really include him. I go on this, you know, can protect the ball a bit better there and move the ball around. But he's not there. Beningame. You know, Beningame's injured so we haven't even got the option of bringing a young lad in. So he was the natural fit for me to play in there. Because then that would have allowed us to sit a bit deeper. He would have still screened the back three. And then your wing backs could have gone and done what he did do, which was cause Liverpool issues at the other end. I mean, you know, Liverpool was so open at the back. It was incredible. But none of that works if you don't play it, right? I was saying to Andy on the way, when he went to 1-0, I would have liked to have seen him come like even like a sweeper, have like a sweeper behind him. Because we were playing so high and told me not just to play even as a sweeper or a whole gate, the quicker one of the phrase. You just can't rely on them to be disciplined. But that's all I mean. And this is where I find the problem with everyone on the market server, is I think, and I don't think he's doing it intentionally, of course, but we're being set up to fail with the real naive decisions like playing a high line in Anfield, it's suicide. You look at the things before the game, and they'll play the second most long balls in the league. Now, people go on, they save or else you've saved. But they're very direct and in fact they get the ball there, it's quick players, and they get man advantages. It's not an omlet that way. No, no, no, because there's not. Because they're creating advantages and saves the numbers. If you look at, for me and your man, for example, going against a four man defence, then they're going to cause problems. Why did we think about this? This is my issue, and this is the initiative of the market server. We don't plan for the game, we don't adapt. Now, at one nail, you go, we've just been beaten by a long ball here. Right, go and sit back. No, there's no adaptation. It's getting higher even in some cases. Guilfewire, you go and start pressing up the pitch and leave big channels in the middle of the move. This is the problem with the market server. I don't want to make it all about it because the performance was terrible by the players as well. You're setting teams up not to do well by being naive, and you can't be naive in this league when you're beaten. For example, Eddie Howie's been quite naive at times. They're on a safe game, losing on. One minute and ten. Yeah, exactly. You need to be smarter, and Marge just can't go to Anfield and just play loose and go like that. I suppose any game plan he had was out of the window after five minutes was in Liverpool. Ever had the ball in the Liverpool box. Yeah, it was too many minutes forward. He got it clear and he break quickly. And he broke her pace, and we were always on the back foot there. But I felt there was a couple of individual errors within the goal that should have been dealt with. Michael Keane should have gone and closed down the ball instead of running back towards his own goal. The player, Liverpool had three forward players running at us, and we had four defenders because Dean was coming in down the back. Keane should have gone over and engaged. We saw this a bright break of the week. He ran away from the ball instead of going towards the ball, and then by him running back towards our goal. It don't get me wrong, the pass by Manning was fantastic. Absolutely brilliant ball. But if Keane goes out and makes that pass harder, it makes Manning's mind up for him. Now he either tries to skin him for pace, but if he gives himself five yards, he can react to that. Or he turns and looks for the one-two or whatever. But by just running back towards your own goal, you make his mind up for him. And that's where the second mistake for me comes. No defender tries to commit to the ball, make a tackle, and the goalkeeper, for some reasons, on the edge of his body and doesn't do anything, goes down as if to collect it. And one touch is out the gate. This is the problem with Michael Keane as well. He's just got no awareness of what's right. There's no danger awareness. He doesn't see people coming round him. Now, as you say, all he had to do was put his foot through it, proffer a corner. Now he just moves, watches, and then... Let it roll across his body. And then Pickford's reactionary, isn't he? He doesn't have to speak. Why is he that far out? He doesn't have to speak. He has to be involved. If he were to be in penalty spots, maybe at least a riggy would have had to take a touch. And then if he clips it past him, he can say it was a great ball, good ball by Manning, good finish, not much to keep a good do. But all he has to do is control the ball, it's he does, and he keeps us off the game. That's the problem with Pickford. Rolls it in, you want it back. He loves to be involved. That's one thing you needed to change when he came to Heaven. Over the last three years, you would have expected his corners. Decision making is still not there. You need to anticipate things, you need to position yourself correctly, and he's still not doing it. I'm not saying we should get rid of Pickford, but I think his development has stagnated over the last couple of years. The club has as well, to be honest. I'm not interested in him. But again, you don't need any lessons, and look what happens in the second. Second goal, that's 1-0, and you fear the worst then of course, and then the second goal stay is in some respects even worse, because we actually have enough bodies back to deal with it. And yet no-one follows, well, Michael Keane just let's secure he won't pass the ball. Without even motioning towards the ball, and then the goalkeeper lays down. I think it was well said before, it was about five players on the edge of the box. Like you said, Michael Keane just let's him walk through, and it's an easy goal. Pickford can't really do much about the second. Really? I don't think we're part goalkeeper, man. I think he's... He goes with his feet. I've seen a lot of goalkeepers and I haven't had a salto all about this. He's saying, why is he going for stuff with his feet? It's the highest season, isn't it? But people forget the highest six foot six, you know what I mean? It's like you've got to... I just think the defendants just... It's the defendants, Paul, but I just think the goalkeeper's done a little bit better on that. But Michael Keane, I mean, letting him run past you. That summed up his night, didn't it, really? He was just, like you said, saying his positional sense is just shocking. Shocking, it is. This is what happens when you... This is the by-product of the Cooman Wall Shearing. It's your by-players who've got no right or no... You can't play in different systems. Michael Keane was a barely, playing the low block, he basically defended the width of penalty area. That's all he did. Never had to go out wide. Never had to go out of the pitch to defend the space. Just to clear the ball, go again. For everything he's been asked to play the high line, defending space, it's just... It's not going to work, and that's why... He basically said, you go for the ball, I'll run him behind. And don't forget he was more confident. His confidence has been shot this season and it's shown. He's not playing well, he's been asked to do a bit more, and his confidence has gone. He's been dropped, he's back here. I mean, it was a good golden Liverpool's perspective, because it was a good move, but from our perspective, it looked easy to defend against if someone goes... If you're making a run, it's great if no one goes with you. It was just a good run by Shaqiri, a good little move, and the tune... They shouldn't be going. They just shouldn't be going. You know, you tune him down, and you're thinking 12 minutes gone, you tune him down, this could be 10. You know. We've got our way back into the game. Good goal, actually, by Michael Keane. He took it well corner. The way he wrote to a world, he crossed the interview. He acted well and clipped it over the keeper. It was a nice finish, and you're like, right or right? We've started terribly, but we're back in the game now. We then have a penalty shot. I mean, earlier. There was a situation where Alexander Arnold could have seen red, and probably should have seen red, really. It was a late, late challenge. He knew what he was doing over the top. It was so hard to go off the night before for Pallas. I don't know why VIA didn't make it in a world of red. It was a poor challenge. If you play in red, you can't award against them. He basically stands up. It was a poor challenge. He knew what he was doing over the top. He was all over the place. He can't defend. He's amazing going forward. He was over the act. He was just the over-comit step in that. The blacks to play them went well in the first half. But then the challenge and done one on him later. Or on Shakiri and that could have been. That was the similar challenge. But Dominic Calvert-Lewin, did you think it was a penalty? It was a good ball by a woby fed them in. Split them in, split the defence in it. I just want to know how Van Dyck bullied at those 10 yards. No.3 seconds. It was incredible. Damn hesitate. Well exactly, and this is the problem with Dom. It was composure. He basically had to take one touch and hit it across the keeper. And he delays, delays, delays and then... Yeah, because he wasn't going for the ball. He just shold them in the back then. He shold them in the back. If you're not going for the ball, it's a penalty. But because he used his shoulder... VIR looked at it. Apparently, well apparently. I feel like if it was Vardy, it would have been a penalty. If he used his hands. Because he would have made him a penalty. He probably thought he could get away with his shoulder badge. You know what I mean? That's what he said. But I think that's the challenge. Even if it was a penalty or whatever. Dom should have had that out of his feet. What he does is he tends to slow up. No composure. I have to say, I need to get it still before I can hit it. Because he's scared of missing a chance. If you look at someone like Jamie Vardy. Because one of you has just mentioned him. He'd have put that... He'd have had a tuck in the crossfandae. So if you had to go like that, you couldn't have touched him. Or he'd have moved it out of his body. So that you protect the ball. You're putting your body between the ball and the defender. You're putting your body between the ball and the defender. And he didn't. He slowed down and waited to shoot. He didn't. He slowed down and waited to shoot. If you get that out of his feet and pot you. It's 2-2. Or certainly you're asking the question about him. He's never been composed in front of a ball. No he hasn't. He's developed well. But that's an area of him. That's that ice in your veins. Natural strikers have it sometimes. It's conviction now. I think it's confidence as well. In the fact that he doesn't want to miss a chance. When I watch him. Especially you know this. He just doesn't want to miss. He's overthinking things. You take shots on. Because you know you're going to miss chances. That's part of the game. I think that plays into his mind. If you have five shots and you get three on target. He'll score a goal. I think something in relation to Dom I was saying before as well. I just feel like he's lost that aggression from last season as well. There's a part in the first half where Van Dijk was just like shoving him like that. I just accepted it. Get a bit nasty back to him. Get a bit nasty back to him. I think that's when he's at his best. When he's aggressive. In the channels. Bringing the centre off. You can't play the reputation. Van Dijk's the best centre back in the world of performance. Is he? He's a top. He's a very good centre back. But you can't go well. He's the best. You go round the table and test yourself against you. See how good you really are. Van Dijk didn't play particularly well last night. He was over the place at times. The two won and were kind of in the game. Liverpool were stroking it round. Well, they felt as though they were in control. They probably were. But we felt as though with that goal we got back in the game a little bit. The fans looked nervous anyway even if the players didn't. And then centre Alexander-Arnold plays a ball. It was a great pass. But it was an easy pass. It's because we switched off. There's no anticipation of the man making a run over the back. And a straight ball. And our centre backs don't react. Particularly Michael Keane, because he's the one who's with it. A Rigi's right next to him. And a Rigi runs past him. What's going on? It's a brilliant goal. The touch by a Rigi is fantastic. And the finish is brilliant. It really is. But it could have been avoided. Because if you're getting caught with a straight pass you're in trouble. You're in trouble as an international centre back. Which two of them three are. I mean, I don't blame Gary, because he was the one to the left. He was whole-gait and Keane, predominantly Michael Keane. He was standing there looking at each other. Just like... It wasn't like they were 10 yards, gap between them either. There was only a couple of yards and he was just in between them. There's no communication, obviously. I was saying to my dad, it's like when you used to play Sunday League and you used to always say, knock it over the top. It's so easy. It's not hard to defend if you actually use your brain. No, no. Let's be honest as well, because Gary isn't doing that against anyone else. He loves your goal against love. Defense is just brainless. It's just brainless defending. That's basic defending. You can blame the manager all you want. It's not the answer. But he set a team out with international defenders. He doesn't expect one ball to take them on the game. He shouldn't be a Rai. He came out after the game and said he played totally the opposite of what he's holding to play. Surely you've damaged football. Well, that's how I feel for him. Oh, yeah. I thought he would have put cones out and put a beater. See the beater. They've got to take in-game responsibility as well. That's what they're doing. I understand the manager might be saying push high, but you've also got to use your own football knowledge. He didn't say that. He was indicating he's holding to shift. That's what I mean. If you're seeing that with your eyes, why aren't you telling them to go? If they're ignoring them, that's an entirely different problem, isn't it? Because they shouldn't be ignoring them if you're the manager. But again, that comes back to what you're saying about Sigarton before. That's where a captain, a proper captain would go up to those centres and have a seat. You too. He wasn't even on the pitch. He was sitting in the stands watching the game for half an hour. No, he's just sitting there with his aero gel back and doing absolutely nothing. So we're 3-1 down and it's game over again. It becomes 4-1, we give the ball away. We break on us. Go goal. Man, I sweeps you in. It's 4-1. This is going to be 10. And then we break and score a good goal. Good header. Well, off a shoulder. We've committed. Then we have a half chance to go 4-3. Michael Keane doesn't get the shot away. Also I don't know why he could have slipped. So we get to half time it's 4-2 and come out in the second. You know, at half time you're thinking this is a strange game, this 4-2. I thought we were kind of in it. We were still in it. Because they were open aren't they? They were open. It wasn't their full strength side so they probably played a bit differently than what they wanted. But in the second half they did just keep us at arm's length. We were in the game to the next end. We had a couple of headers that went straight at half time and off from a wall where I think it was that went straight down his throat. They had a couple of chances. I mean, man I should have made a 5-2 with another straight ball over the top. He'd made the shove after 24 minutes I think it was or something like that. For Bernard, come on, he took. Play 4-4 to you didn't he? She had to be off. He wouldn't have been the one to take. I had to take Michael Keane off. The problem is Liverpool were key on the facts of DB goes high. But it really is ill-disciplined how far he gets up the pitch too early. Because if they win the ball back it's just an easy ball on the channel and then you've got either Michael Keane or Jason Holgate, if they will. But you've got Holgate those quick out. You should play in the centre too wasn't it? This is another thing. Why isn't Holgate? I mean you know the two quicks and Michael Keane off the tank in the middle just trying to win the end. That should be the way it is. Michael Keane a played of Keane on him and Cole, him and Sadie beside all year. That's been an issue for everyone. Fair play to them. I'm not saying I would have brought Sadie but I wouldn't. I would have said to him stop running spy. Bernard did okay when he came on to the base. He had the goal up. Couldn't get him in the game. That's the only shame because Trent couldn't do it in the belt. I think that's why he brought him on. He just didn't use him enough. He just didn't use him enough. It was just a hole in the midfield. There was one up for me in the midfield and Manai was exceptional all night. But we had a chance. We brought Moise Keane on for Dominic Arvill. We had a chance to make it 4-3. I mean a wow be slydd. Keane done well didn't he? I thought he was exciting. I thought Van Dijk did not deal with him. I mean just before that they'd had the chance with Manai on a straight ball and again Michael Keane. Just before we move on from Michael Keane because I just think about that chance again but Michael Keane had such a poor game. But that one ball again he was watching the whole way and Manai he just runs in behind him again. I mean it's numbers aren't great Addy. I mean he's just done the goal for him. There are five clearances, no block shots, no tackles from the centre back. A dribble pass once, lost possession nine times in the game for it. Now I don't know whether that seems more that seems quite high for me to leave it. Liverpool do press well but he gives the ball away cheaply three occasions with a normal pass a straight pass straight to them and they broke on us again. Now for him would you just take him back out the side? Yeah well I'm advocating that we move on from him this summer I'm not saying that's by no means saying he's like the worst player in the league I just don't think he suits the way we want to play and I think he'll have a home somewhere he'll do well, he'll probably get back in England team cos that's the way it works for England but now he's he's not good enough for having it. What's your thoughts on him? Yeah I think similar to Andy I don't think he'll have a scene back in England team I just think he just hasn't suited that since day one really and I obviously had that period on last season where he played well but I do believe a lot of that was down to zoom my next team as well and the protection in front of him Garnon as well but I just don't think he's good enough for what we want where we want to be. I was convinced last season I think he played well last season he's solid I think I said a few weeks ago when I come in I feel like barely may have been his level but it's the way he plays he's nullified the flaws you've got as a sense after making his fin and he's good in the arts to be honest he's played his part he had a clean sheet in 10 games last season so he must have been decent but on to the other king on to the other king we fought him down he come on I thought he'd done well I thought he's such looked better he protected the ball a bit better he gave fan dyke one of a couple of times to get off the mark in an evidence sheet it will be fed him in he should really have scored shouldn't he should have yeah the only thing I could say in his defence he had obviously breathed down his neck as well I don't know if that's put him off I was encouraged with him last night he's probably the biggest encouragement out the game I thought he was saying before it looks like he may have put a bit of muscle on as well he looks a bit bigger than he did when he'd come in he put himself a ball he's got that angry side to him as well where he can get in people's faces and I think if he's coached properly and whoever's working with him at Finch Farm or whatever they're doing with him at Finch Farm I feel like we've got to start giving them a run of games now he's come in the last two games off the bench he's done well in both games to be fair he's scored a scream at Leicester the way he put himself a ball he got in a few faces at Leicester I just think it's the right time now to let him loose and I think if you're going to do that you've got to get with Charleston closer to him as well if you're going to do it and I think that's the first time in a woby you're playing in a situation where you can play him in a woby's strength some people obviously weren't happy with his performance last night he was sloppy that's to be fair his strength is picking those balls in behind you saw it with the Dominic Arvidt Lewin you saw it in previous games some runners you probably should have fed it to his feet but that's a key part haven't keen playing with some because we've seen this season Gilvie Siglison doesn't pass the strikers he just doesn't so playing them two together having Bernard you can create as well having Charleston you've got nice laxes there creativity with goals I think that would be better for that I think especially at the moment where no one's really putting their mark no we've seen enough let's be honest them goals against small dover let's be honest he's not good enough Dominic Arvidt Lewin I like Dom but he's still he's still got things that need fixing before he becomes our regular starter but I've got no problem in saying he's playing Dom because he's going to cause problems for teams but having them all they were keen playing keen with the right players I think he'll start scoring like if he'd scored that goal against Leicester tonight and that chance fell to me didn't you want to snatch that as quick you just need one to get a mark so you know could have gone 4-3 and Liverpool fans were looking at you for some reason you know what I think it would have gone 4-3 with 5, 6, 7 minutes left you know they would have been we might have had another gore but it didn't he brought Morgan Snidel in on and Liverpool ended up getting a fifth goal and what was mad was we had three attempts to clear this ball and three Holgate with one of the worst headers I've ever seen percent of I just kind of cushioned his neck and ended it up in the air Sigarton was he went fully in on it Sigarton was just out muscle which isn't difficult to do on the edge of the box and then it got played wider for me and he done bamboozled Holgate on really well but Snidel on a track when Aldham really well he ran with him to block the pass off first and then instead of staying where he was he got attracted to the ball did he hand him off though? no because he was running with him and Holgate got back to it for me so he would have been able to get some kind of block on it and Snidel followed the ball and for me no lazy back and it's when Aldham topo changed the bottom corner it didn't matter he pressed in your own box and I think sometimes you do chase the ball right and play the man sometimes that is an issue and it gave it a shiny score line and probably it deserved really in terms of you know fight because neither team really done a lot in the second and both had chances so it was off the gas didn't it in the second half but they got it the two up and the two goal advantage and protecting it is more important for them yeah I said that second half they come out they come out second half but that's confidence as well and that's when you're playing with no confidence everything becomes better you don't want another hand I just thought we were up really when you're winning it is a stringing step as well I wonder I don't think you can keep tempo that long in games even when you're nervous and I don't know what fitness work we're doing but we're certainly not on the level of Liverpool who seems to be able to run through walls gaming gear it's now 100m running because he's a woby he's a woby which looked terrible on a woby let's be honest but it was a bit odd but yeah allegedly I mean this Joe's put this question in so I'm going to go to Steve first because I know what yours is Steve are we in a relegation battle? at the moment yeah we are there's 23 games to play so we probably need 8 wins so it's basically a few draws you could even go 5 wins and a few 3, 4, 5 draws that's what we were saying before big honest with the whole we haven't really drawn enough games really it's been big on it lately as well I think we've only 2 draws 1 win less than Wolves now aren't we? but they've had 8 draws and we've played 13 games more than it's this season ask me after Christmas I'm asking you now I'm not saying are we getting relegated what I'm saying is are we in a relegated battle at home I think we are only because of the players that we have in the team I just when we had Moises teams in the past and we were in trouble you kind of knew the kiles and your players would stand up and get stuck in for certain games but there's this team I'm just looking at them and just see a load of working the only caveat to that for a country is that football has changed as well because when Moise was here and we had to dig in there was a lot of teams that dug in as well most of the league is like a footballing league and that's why teams like Sheffield United who do dig in and Burnley and Crystal Palace are up near the top because they do it a bit better than other teams I just question the commitments of the team that's fine Andy whoever knows that I don't think so I think this is very similar to the Sam Arby situation that we had that time I think Big Sam came in and got two wins well let's be honest he got one win west on as David Unsworth win whatever and we were there and I know people looking at it go there's no way in Rooney but there's certainly enough players who've been involved in relegation battles in this team let's stop pouring bunches here we bought Pickford from Sunderland and we've got to get some Swansea it's not all a manager's fault it's not all a manager's fault let's be honest it kicked off 100% his fault but I think a manager can inspire a team everything has conceded the first goal and I think it's 33 games on the Marco Silver maybe I'll be that high and out of 84 points we've took 5 because we've never come back to win games that's horrendous there's no inspiration you should be able to get snatched draws that's resilience and we can't pick up results we either lose or we win most tight games really being paddleshine you're right and once you master that start winning games you're drawing that's how you do it if you draw 4 games and win 1 it's not great but 7 points you're starting to pick up and all of a sudden you've got momentum and you've got 5 games on beating you can't continue to lose soft games that was a soft lot can't lose games like that and I think a manager who's got a bit more about them will cut this off quite quickly and also he won't play players that's to be honest you've got to have players you want to run around and you've got to have players you believe if people have stopped believing in what they're doing and I'm not saying they're not playing for Michael Silver because they all like him apparently if people don't fully believe in what you're doing do they run through walls for him or whatever I just think he bothered I think they are though I just think that football's changed so much now and I think the players have to be excited by what a manager is doing you look at them and people they don't love clop and all that but they seem to be just the cult of personality that he's got and they seem to do everything he wants and yet he is cringy people say we've won a manager like football I'd rather have sworn a bit more charismatic who makes the players play for him they believe in everything he does he's not listening, he's done an incredible deal what did you make of the players between themselves arguing and stuff like that do you like that or do you think it's good for me seem to be pointing fingers but not really trying to sort it out we've got a picture here but on the telly he was saying oh and they haven't played there's really not that much Pickford was throwing his arm he throws it every game there was a little bit of a luck we all will have played Sunday league and school teams you'd be tracking people by the throat into positions and having to go, who's your man why have you left them, why are they getting really, you know what you think so it is what it is I like it if you're going to do it don't do it for the fans, say to the telly you're acting on it don't you it'd be silly to say we're not in a relegation battle at the moment because we have a third from bottom so we're going to go down but there's 23 games to go so it's easy to get out of it and the answer to that is of course because I look at a lot of sides in this league and just go and there's three weeks to go there's time to buy oh you've got to bring players in you've absolutely got to bring them in the field in the centre back of the must at the very least and now you can't get them in there's a player who will talk later there's a player who will probably get it in relation to the relegation what would you if they're in the bottom three after say New Year's Day is that when you start to worry should you be worried now have you in the bottom three at Christmas then you should maybe then I'm not worried but I'm not sitting here just going everything's going to be totally fine I might be crazy but that doesn't mean I don't think I can still finish high up the table because I do because six points off top I must be honest even though they've had the new manager bounce per se but we still can see it to every game and I really will fix it but if we don't get the new manager bounce then I'll be worried because then I'll go it's the players then and that's when you go we're in trouble because you can't use ult if they change the manager then there's no way for the players to hide because the manager stops taking the flag for a while anyway that's when it turns onto the players and that's it then and so they have to come up with the goods speak of the players so we'll just finish with this discussion because I think it's one way of having and I think it's one that kind of sums up just what's going on at the moment and with the manager as well and everything else is that I don't understand and I've defended the manager quite a lot less so in the last few weeks because I've found it impossible to defend them basically and because I didn't want to sit here and bag him out all the time because I think you have to look at everything as well and these lot don't help anybody some of them are about to see off the Ford manager in the last few years so that's how good they are but this fella bought for a lot of money decent was alright in his first season got an injury, was out for a comeback last season he was better got a lot of goals, important goals for us still had periods where he wasn't in game but the goals were vital for us and this year I think he's been terrible all season, he's got a great goal coming off the bench against Westambo I believe his best position is coming off the bench now when the game is getting tired there's 15, 20 minutes left and the players have let the pace of the game dropped a bit and then he's at that level similar with Jeng Towson that their pace then almost equals everybody else's so he can have a bit more of an impact it's true though because he'll then find gaps in that last 15 minutes of his best he can't be crazy on space he was out the team and it was arguably when we were playing our best football Westam game and we would create, we'd be waffed at home, in the cup and then he's backing he's been backing the side he's done so well and I can't get my head round to me if I'm if you're in any team whether it's in work or if someone's basically been ousted because they're playing poorly or performing poorly and then they're brought back in and made the leader in theory of the team it just sends a bad message doesn't it let's be honest he's been awful this season he's awful in pre-season and whether you're like and you can check whatever but I've not been a fan I don't think I've ensured a boss on myself and people didn't like Ross Barclay and whatever people think of Ross Barclay he was a completely different type of player than Guilfee and we really relied on Ross to do a lot on the final third and he was getting us up the pitch dictating passes and Guilfee doesn't want the ball he stands next to defenders you know he's done me wrong he's got a great technique, great shot on him he can't create his own speed and the league's gone a bit quicker, it's gone a bit faster and it is type of player there's still players you can do that David Silver obviously being one of them but he just can't he's not good enough any more he's been an odd fifth for Everton since we signed him now funny enough he did play left wing in his first season but the previous season he scored 12 goals he's not a winger let's be honest I know that he's better as a 10 but he's just so well disciplined and I don't know whether last night he kept chasing the ball at the pitch and so on had to do the work of six men in the field now it's not all his fault but I think it's just an odd fifth and I think of Everton, another player that would be best moving on from a lot of cumin and Welsh Simons and he'd be another one and I think the setting teams in the league would be comforting barely, I'd love for Gilffy Siginson maybe he can't run around as much as he used to be he works hard, he loves to step balls that's the type of team he'd suit but he's not good enough for Everton he shouldn't be captain he should be captain at the end of the day you don't even need to get captain as an example like you said there sends a wrong message to the fans and to the other players around them as well last night I just you've bottled in tackles you can't be bottled in tackles in emergency side and you're captain of the Everton team and you sent him in the field and he never touched the ball for 20 minutes 20 minutes he never touched the ball for an open play he may as well have sat in the stands and watched for me there were times last season he scored the goals but if he hadn't scored you would have forgotten he was playing at times he's just done a lot when he's with the pressure some scores are going there you go, gilfee all the haters look at all the things he does but there's something called control in the game he doesn't get involved in that don't be wrong he's got ability but he's not going to stop for me I just think he's a good footballer and whether a different manager would use him better or whatever I don't know but the captain thing just blows my mind because when you've been dropped and you can come back in as a captain if you're like a natural leader so like a, I don't know a John Terry type fellow Dave Watson to use an Everton thing he gets dropped but then he's backing he's got to be leading by example he's snapping people he's winning he's in the trenches for you fair enough for this fellow but I don't think he needs any more pressure on as the captain he's just letting play his game how can you have some of those missing games the captain has to lead by example has to show the team this is the sand that was setting just goes missing and people go you didn't touch the ball you put the ball you can't even take corners you can't come out of a stand and take them that ball has been terrible forever this is before we obviously finish this is evident and not obviously in transition still now obviously we all expect this to be much further along than we are now but you need the right margin number one to do that and there's still a lot of deadwood around the squad that you need to fix there's still a lot of slow players around the team we need to fix that and obviously this injury crisis if the academy team on the 23 team had been managed properly and players had been out on loan then maybe Dennis had in there and could have come in and played in the field but they're just way off the pace and maybe they aren't good enough maybe that is a case but there's a lot of things that need fixing they've been pointed at the board the manager, the director of football I think the manager is the first thing we need to change and then we'll look obviously again down the line based on what Brands does over the next season we need to all be on the same page I think as a club needs to be one vision instead of multiple visions people have read the articles and the athletic and obviously Don King and Andy Hunter are talking about different things as well now it just seems a mess and the club needs to be focused on one basically seeing him she's exactly you can see the squads made up of different people's players and that's another problem and there's different styles of playing it's a lot of needs fixing you can't have that again though no I won't give you, you've changed the one but Brands stars full controller doesn't he and that's where I know some people don't like the director of football but it prevents us from having another cumin crazy buying all these players that don't fit together now obviously if it's Moise or if it's whoever else Brands is going to say, do you like this play that's how it works but they're not going to go I want so and so he's going to fit what I want so and that's where the balance has to come but I think this season we'll have to write it off there's an outside chance we can make 7-6 maybe with a rum but we need to start building for next season try and write the wrongs off the pitch because off the pitch you need something as well as on the pitch I was going to say quick on just in relation to the manager I actually don't blame the manager no more it's gone past the manager do you blame Bob Micheri I blame whoever's in the board the board whoever because they're all involved in making decisions I've been saying it's inevitable for months because it just was you could just see it coming and these two games especially it feels like they're over the last couple of years with a couple of things now like the whole when we've released players and not told them it just seems like we've lost I think we will anyway just because of the way the club's going but just finally to finish Ronald Coommer was sacked a day after he lost 5-2 so there you go we'll have to see whether ever move again with that big thanks to Andy big thanks to Steve thanks for 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