 Hello, everybody. Welcome again to this series of the Stories Women Carry. My name is Karishma Bagani. I am your question asker, the official question asker of the series. It's crazy to think that we're almost at the end of our second season. We have one more episode next week and this will be a wrap for our second season. So thank you all for those that have been tuning in regularly for our new listeners. Thank you for being here and for supporting us and being interested in learning about what we talk about every Monday. I'd like to give a special shout out to the Tabariats Foundation, the Nairobi Musical Theatre Initiative, and Hal Rahn for being co-producers and presenters of this series. Of course, without their support, we won't have been able to make this happen. So thank you. And special thanks to our wonderful ASL interpreters. Thank you, Rory, for being here and for making this a more accessible series to all of our audiences. So today, we're taking a little bit more of a pivot and a shift in talking about creative practice of women on the African continent. Last week, we had the privilege of speaking to Nikkei Jonah, who is Nigerian born and British Britain based. But you know, in when we were having conversations about even crafting the series, it became increasingly important to us to start thinking about what the impact of creative practice in the diaspora, in the African diaspora is as well. So it's with great honor and pleasure that I introduce Dr. Monica Ndunu to our conversation today. Hi, Monica. Hi, Karishma. It's good to see you. Good to see you too. Thank you so much for being here and for agreeing to be a panelist and really encouraging us to, you know, think outside the box when it comes to talking about creative practice. My few engagements with you over the last few months have been so fruitful and nourishing and learning about the impact that you are making as an individual in the field, but also your practice and your work. So I'm really excited that we'll be able to talk a little bit more about this during our series today and educate our audiences about you and about your work. Thank you. I'm really happy to be here. So thank you for the invitation. And the special special shout out to Dean, who's actually part of the HowlRound team who made the introduction between Monica and I. And it's, thank you so much, Dean, because sparks have flown and it's wonderful and such a privilege to know you. So why don't we get started with you telling us, as I've asked every other panelist, a bit about your journey. You know, who are you? And how did you get to being in the arts and the capacity that you are? Yeah, so it's it's been quite a journey, I would say, a journey I'm still on in terms of really learning and growing as an artist and as a scholar. And so I pretty much I started out as an actor, who was always very curious about, I guess you could say interdisciplinary study, I think at the time I didn't necessarily think of it in that way. But now looking back and realizing how I've just been curious about learning about the world and learning about people. And really interested in collaborating with people in a lot of different ways. And so again, I started as an actor. And there was a point during my early career where there seemed there weren't a lot of roles for actors who look like myself, particularly being a darker skinned black woman. And the ways in which sometimes people would want to cast me didn't necessarily align with my values or are even in roles that really explore the range and depth of humanity, the ways that I wanted to be able to do that. And so what I ended up doing is, at one point, I was awarded a grant to direct the play because I decided, well, if if I can't find an opportunity for myself, I'm going to create one. Not just for myself, but also for others. And so I applied for a grant to direct the play was awarded the grant and ended up directing for my first production August Wilson's Joe Turner's Come and Gone, which is has wonderful roles. But for some reason, where I was located at the time, there weren't people who really stage and work like that. And so in stating that play, I had an opportunity to work with a lot of really wonderful actors. And I learned a lot and decided it was something that I would like to continue to do. And so then from there, I had some of my professors who had encouraged me to go to graduate school, and to pursue a doctorate. And at the time, I was not familiar with, you know, graduate study programs, I am a first generation college graduate. And, you know, just learning about Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you, but I'd love to just learn more about what that journey was like for you as a first generation college student myself. What were some of these challenges that you're speaking about? Yeah, well, part of it is, you know, even applying to college, and, you know, trying to find out what resources are available for support. I learned a lot about that. A lot of hard knocks, I should say, in terms of just trying to find out what resources you can access, how do you access them? And how do you sustain them, you know, to carry on your academic career? And so I started out at Spelman College, which was a wonderful, wonderful experience. But it was very, I experienced economic hardship when I was there. And so, you know, working multiple jobs and just trying to make it through the process. And so eventually, I wasn't able to stay. And, but I did continue with my education elsewhere, where it was less expensive, but maintained my connections with all of the wonderful people I met while I was at Spelman. And, you know, just continue to do the work. And so it's interesting, because at the time that I'd applied for that grant to direct a play, I'd also applied for a study abroad program because I minored in French. And so I had to choose between do I go to the study abroad program, which I'd received funding to get, or do I direct the play? I chose to direct the play. And I think that was in making that decision that sort of sent me on a very particular path as an artist, because I also began to understand what my commitment was because of the choice that I made. And so, so yeah, in directing that play, and then continuing to direct and pursue a graduate study. I, you know, just continue to gain additional skills as an actor and as a director, but then also started to study more in depth, sort of beyond the practical component in, you know, really exploring theory, and how theory relates to practice. And so I ended up doing a graduate study at the University of Florida, and then also earning my doctorate at the Ohio State University. And Charisma, I would like to congratulate you on your journey as you're about to undertake. And as a doctoral student at Stanford. Okay, so it looks like Charisma, you may be frozen. I'll continue to talk until we can maybe we can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you now. Oh, the internet connection. I'm so sorry. Oh, it's okay. Okay, so I'll get talking about my journey. So let's see. So the next question about the work that I'm doing now. I'm currently an associate professor of theater at Dartmouth College, where I'm also affiliate faculty in film and media studies, and also African African American Studies. Additionally, I am the founder and executive director of the Craft Institute, which is a nonprofit dedicated to curating culturally inclusive ecosystems throughout the world of arts and entertainment. And through our work at the Craft Institute, we do a variety of different things. One of our first major projects was to host the International Black Theater Summit, which we held an event in 2018, which was a celebration of reconvening of the National Black Theater Summit that legendary playwright August Wilson hosted at Dartmouth College back in 1998. And so we basically brought together scholars and practitioners working in theater, film, television and related media, and also invited the surviving members of the executive committee to organize the summit that August Wilson held 20 years prior, and basically came together to sort of assess where we are in this moment and to sort of project what our path forwards might look like if we were to work together throughout the diaspora. And so yes. So Karishma, I feel like I'm talking a lot. So I'm going to take a pause in case you can hear me and maybe some questions. Yeah. Thank you for bearing with me through the internet difficulties. Can you hear me okay? Yes, I can hear you great. Thank you. Okay, I'm going to for a while keep my video off and keep my audio on so we can try and see if I can still ask you the questions. Thank you so much for highlighting your journey, you know, in the field of academia, and also as a practicing artist, and also sharing some of the struggles, I'm sure it'll be really helpful for students or aspiring college students who are tuned in to learn about this journey. And I'm sure as we continue talking, more, more, more of these experiences of yours will come up in our conversation. Monica, when I met you and I learned about your work, I was very fascinated, particularly with the kind of impact that you're leaving through the work you're doing with the create ensemble. I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about where that idea came up from and what is the creative ensemble. Yeah. Yes. So thank you. Yes, create ensemble is a digital platform. And I'm one of the co founders of the platform with Dr. Nicole Hodges, personally, and also Victorian and Dunu. We essentially, Nicole and I are both artists, we're both actors and directors. And we work across multiple platforms. And in the one of these conversations we had, Nicole was sharing with me, you know, this idea of wouldn't it be great if there was a one stop shop where we could staff our projects where we didn't have to go searching for people every time we wanted to do something. And so from there, we really started to build out this idea for a platform that would allow us to invite artists working across multiple platforms like ourselves, folks who have sort of the same desire to actually want to create in a way that is really more grounded in our, you know, respecting and honor honoring our various cultural perspectives. So this platform is really it's artist centered. And it's, you know, designed from our own experiences as black women working in entertainment in the arts, and also as academics. And you know, just creating a space where people can share profiles as individuals and organizations. And I know Karishma you asked me earlier if I wanted to sort of walk people through it, I can share that or you know, you just talk a little bit about it. Okay. It'd be wonderful. It'd be wonderful to see. Yeah. And you know, I also would love to spend a little bit of time talking about the craft craft institute. So maybe we could start with create and then move move there. Okay, great. So I will need sharing privileges. And then I can share the screen with you. Leave our technical guru and master. Leah will be able to help. Thank you. Alright, so this is create ensemble. And I invite people to go to create ensemble.com. If you want to maybe just follow and you can create your your profile here. So Karishma, you can see this. Okay, yes. Yep, yep. Okay, great. So again, create ensemble is this digital platform that we put together to invite folks to create profiles for, you know, themselves as individuals and also as organizations. So here, if you sign up as an individual, essentially, you can share your information about the work that you do. So something of your background, and your union status, along with the bio and where you're located. Additionally, you can also post pictures, video reels, audio files, anything that supports, you know, it can showcase the work that you've done. So here you can see some images from a production of August Wilson's Gem of the Ocean that I directed a few years ago. In addition to the video reels and audio files, you can post your resume as well. Sharing a bio and, you know, just the type of work that you do in the field. And so here, because I'm a director, actor, educator, writer, scholar, it lets people know the types of work that I'm interested in doing so that they can reach out to me. So again, you can fill in all of this information here that talks about your experience, the different areas that you work in your education, as well as languages. One of the parts of the platform that I really appreciate is the fact that you can list your different work locations. So while I am based in the Boston area, I have connections with folks in, you know, New York and Florida and Tennessee, a lot of different places where even if I'm not based in those areas, I can work in those spaces because I have either a place to stay or other folks that I can, who can help support. Anything that I might need when I'm in those areas. Additionally, in addition to setting up an individual profile, you can also set up a company profile. So I have two, you saw the one that I have there as an individual artist. But this is the one that I have for the craft Institute. And so you would come here and you can learn more about some of the, you know, some of the activities and things that we've done at the Craft Institute. And so you can either follow me as an individual or follow me through the organization. Along with that, one of my social media, sorry, I was saying this is this is like social media for performing arts. And I think it's so cool, because there's so many various ways of connecting from where I see, aside from just creating a profile. And, you know, it's really, it's really great to see that there's also space to centralize this kind of information for artists around the world. Yeah. So yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I just thought I would I would say that. No, that's great. And that's what I love talking talking to you about it, because I know you get it right away. A couple of things that I wanted to point out to and, you know, give you a chance to talk a little bit more about, you know, what what you've appreciated about the platform. But in addition to, you know, posting jobs or, you know, looking for jobs on the site, one of my favorite features is the fact that you can create projects. And so we have like a few sample projects on the platform. But for one of the things that I'm really looking forward to once things open up post COVID is, and even some of the things I have going ahead of that is you can create a project on this platform and staff it through the platform. So all you have to do is fill out the title, the type of project that is provided description. You can list the project is paid or unpaid because some people are not feel that are, you know, they like to barter services as opposed to paying in case they don't have a huge budget in order to do the project. And you can list where the project is going to take place and identify the type of talent that you would need in order to produce the project. So whether it's an actor, director, you need a cinematographer, a costume designer, you can put all of the things you need on the platform. Additionally, you can put the schedule of the project so people can you can identify straight away if you believe in available during the times that you would need them to be available. And also you can specify if there are if there's available housing, or even childcare or elder care, which I really appreciate as a working mother in the arts. Very often when I have to travel for work, it's another source of labor to have to identify if I'm bringing my kids with me. So once you created a project, you can post the project here. And what you do, this is one of our test out one of these. One of the test projects. If they wanted to apply for the position, they would, you know, submit their cover letter, their CV and submit. And all of those applications would go into your project dashboard and you can feel those applications and staff people for the project. So in addition to that, folks can join circles. And so it's a circle. Basically, it serves the same function as a Facebook group, where people can, you know, join the circle and follow different stories, share pictures, have conversations the same way that you would on Facebook. But this is a safe space where, again, you have the same sort of protections of a moderated Facebook group. But then also people who are posting on within the circle, you can also see their profile and reach out to them and connect with them on the platform so that they would become part of your connections. And once folks are part of your connections, you can actually message them through the site. So the whole site is designed in a way to really bring people together to engage folks in conversation so that they so again, we can come together as artists and producers and create work that resonates for us, and not be at the mercy of Broadway or Hollywood or any of the other predominantly white institutions that we've had to, you know, you know, that a lot of folks really are just waiting for opportunities in those spaces when we believe that in addition to working in those spaces, if people would like to do that, that we should also be able to have a choice to be able to create the work that resonates for us within our communities and for our communities as well. So Karishma, I know you wanted me also to talk a little bit about the Craft Institute. So yeah, before I mean, I don't know if you can hear me, but I put it in the chat. Just case, but it'd be great to hear you talk a little bit more about your vision with this platform and also with Craft perhaps in a segue, particularly as it relates to this idea of job security in the arts and access to opportunity for opportunities for folks of color. Yes. So yeah, I think for this platform, though, the one thing that I would really encourage folks to think about is having a space where we can showcase what we're capable of doing as artists and also as scholars. So if you notice within the circles, we have like an academic circle even. So we want folks from every discipline that's related to storytelling and creativity, you know, to come together and for us to really start thinking about how the work that we do resonates in a lot of different ways. And so we have essentially been inviting folks to this platform, you know, not just to, you know, to showcase the work, but then also it helps facilitate some of the activities that we do through the Craft Institute. And so hold on, I'm trying to see what the question is in the chat. Okay, yeah, so in relation to job security. So let me just say one of the things that I talked to my students about a lot is that we all know, and this is something that I was teaching, you know, in my classrooms, well before COVID hit, and we found ourselves in this moment of reckoning in the larger world, but specifically in the realm of theater and film and television, is that these institutions, the ways in which they have been built, have not been built with people of the global majority at the center, and especially black people, many of us are fighting histories and legacies of misrepresentation. And for for generations, I think a lot of folks have felt really powerless in shifting that even though we, when I say we, I'm talking about black people in particular, and people of the global majority. Generally, we have always found ways to fight against and circumvent some of the barriers that exist within the arts and entertainment fields. But I find that we are now in this moment in history, better equipped than it any other moment, to access the resources we need in order to tell the stories resonate most for us, and to connect globally. And this platform is really designed to do that. One of the things that we're really hoping for with this platform, which is, and Karishma, you and I talk about this as well, is linking people throughout the diaspora, so that we can, again, identify what the needs are in our various communities and figure out how we can support each other in creating the work. But then also, serving as our audience, our primary audience for the work that we do so that we're not constantly trying to cross over to a predominantly white audience, which ultimately ends up shifting the narrative in a way that doesn't always bring true for us or our communities. And so that's really one of the drivers of this platform. It is global and shift the paradigm because it encourages us, again, to rely on ourselves and not the institutions that have historically misrepresented us. And so that, you know, the ethos of this platform is really connected to the work that I do with the Kraft Institute. So one of the one of the primary connections between Kraft and Create Ensemble is our mentorship through the Kraft Institute, a mentorship program which is called Pay It Forward. And the program itself was really inspired by my own experience as a, you know, a black woman entering the arts. And I feel like I was, I've been very fortunate in, you know, connecting with folks who've been really supportive of the work that I wanted to do and reaching a certain level in my career, just starting to realize that mentorship is invaluable, but not a lot of people have access to it. And not a lot of people really know how to do it. And so I wanted to create a program that would allow more people to have a similar experience to what I had in terms of connecting with folks who could help me along my path. And so I initially started the program back in 2016 when I was the president of the Black Theater Association. So we started the program through there. And it has since grown and become a part of the Kraft Institute. And again, the program is for folks at every stage of their career because there is no point that you get to where you don't need support or advice or, you know, just someone that you can bounce ideas off of to see if the path that you're projecting for yourself that you can, you know, actually take that path or create that path based on some of the things that other folks may know about how it works. And so we actually run the program. We facilitate the program through Create Ensemble. So if you want it to join and participate, all you have to do is go to the Mentorship tab, click on Pay Up Forward. It brings you to this page. If you want to join the program, you fill out an application. And once your application is approved, and it's really short, it's just an opportunity for you to share what area of mentorship that you would like support in or what area of mentorship that you would like to provide support. And we have people in the program, including myself, I participate in the program and I will have mentees and I also have mentors in the program. So you can do both. And once you sign up and your application is approved, you'll show up in one of these either as a mentee or a mentor. And if there's someone that you're interested in connecting with, then basically you click on their name. You can select match request. And if they match with you or accept your match request, then you're put together. And our administrator will be in touch and let you know about a lot of our different activities, different events where we bring together the mentors and the mentees to work together on or basically just go through different panels, programs, sessions, activities that are relevant for that particular cohort. So it's on applications are accepted on a rolling basis. So if folks are interested, they can you know reach out to me and or they can just you know join the platform and sign up here. So Karishma, are you still there? Karishma's next question is what advice would you have for a young person trying to enter the arts? I would say for someone who's interested in entering the arts, do it. I think what's most important is really assessing what your interests are, like what are your goals. And a lot of what one of the things I'll say too in terms of my own journey is that everything I do is purpose driven. And so I generally ask you know and when I'm speaking with my students or mentees and just you know ask like what do you feel is your purpose on the planet? You know why are you here? What are you here to do? And if you feel like the arts is the space where you can fulfill that purpose on the planet? Go for it. You know talk to people who are doing the things that you would like to see or the things that you would like to be doing. You know study, study is really important. There are you know a lot of people who are you know sort of born with a gift where they're capable of you know doing whatever artistic practice that you know they're interested in doing. And I think it's important even for those with gifts to study because there are ways in which you will learn even more about the craft of the area that you're working in artistically. And you're also going to learn a lot more about yourself. And so you know identify and when I say study I'm not necessarily even endorsing study in you know these predominantly white training programs. I think it's really important to you know research a range of programs that might be of interest to you. And look for you know instructors. Some place where you can go and really explore the craft in a way that's going to amplify your voice through the lens of your cultural perspective. And in a way that really aligns with your values and how you want to what you want to project into the world. Sounds great. Can we ask you how we can follow you and your work aside from the platforms that you have shared with us today? Yes so um well I'm on Twitter. I'm not happy about it. I'm on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram you know the usual places. You can find me as either Monica Whiteham doing a PhD or you can follow me through the Craft Institute's social media platforms again Twitter, Facebook and Instagram and also Create Ensemble same same social media platforms. And yeah and I'm really interested you know and open to hearing more about the work that everybody's doing and hopefully you know folks will sign up on Create Ensemble so we can amplify your work on that platform as well. The platform is actually about to undergo a redesign and so I'll be sharing more information about that in the near future but it's operational. We encourage people to sign up and look forward to actually highlighting the work of a lot of the folks that are on the platform soon. So if you're not on there yet definitely sign up soon and if you are on there make sure your profile is complete so that we can go ahead and highlight some of the work that you're doing as well. Thank you so much Monica for taking the time today to talk to us I'm not sure if I can be heard can you hear me? Yes I can hear you. I'm so sorry for these internet difficulties at my end and for the challenge of having to try and be interviewed without an interviewer who has a stable internet connection so I'm really really sorry but thank you so much for your grace and for being so willing to to lead us through this conversation and share the craft institute and create ensemble platforms and also how we can connect with you. Since I do have the internet connection I'm so eager to ask you some more questions if it's time for us to close out. This is more of a philosophical question that I have related to what you feel the importance of art education at different levels of people's careers is and I ask this not only in the context of people that want to become artists eventually but just in any sort of training what are your thoughts and what are your experiences with with the field of arts education at the various levels at which you've interacted with it you know whether it's as a PhD student yourself a professor and you know a mentor to young young people through the platform as you've talked about well first I want to say you don't have to apologize for anything we are still in the middle of two converging or say multiple converging pandemics so and we're all doing our best so no worries at all there in terms of arts education I think again as I mentioned before the importance of study you know it can't be overemphasized but I also want to sort of expand even the notion of study you know so there's you know formal study and then also our informal ways of studying as well and I think practice is an important part of study and you know documenting your process when engaged in practice and sort of revisiting like what is that like how your process works you know what's effective about it even what may be harmful about it is that there's anything that that you can adjust and ensuring that we're taking care of ourselves first and foremost as human beings as we're doing this work as artists as educators it's really critical that you know we can't be here on the planet if our instrument isn't in shape to be able to be here if our minds and our spirits are not you know in a space because as artists and even as educators we give a lot so we have to find ways of pouring back into ourselves to make sure that we're healthy in every possible way I also think community is really important so you know in ensuring that you yourself and your instrument are in good order part of that I think is finding ways to be connected with other folks who are who also sort of who who feed you and your that you can exchange healthy energy amongst one another and so ensuring that you are around people who are not toxic you know but are actually encouraging for you and then I think also identifying the types of work that again aligned with who you are and the messages that you want to put out into the world and that doesn't mean that we we only put out uncomplicated work that everybody agrees with which I don't even know if such a thing exists but ensuring that whatever it is that we put out there is something that you know we can stand by and want to be doing and so I think that's part of the arts education that you know very often we think of it as earning a degree you know taking classes and getting credentialed but that's only part of it you know the other part of it is really I call it spirit work you know it's something for me that's very much rooted in you know it's a very spiritual thing for me so hopefully that answers your question yeah absolutely and I think that's such a powerful note to end on such a wonderful way for us to leave with the thought of reflecting about how to you know cannibalized and use all of our practical experience to to really teach us and guide us and show us the way and it's so refreshing to hear you say that despite and after also having a degree yourself like you know despite being a doctor the emphasis that you place on on on practice is so important and so thank you for sharing that part of wisdom with all of us oh thank you and again I really appreciate your time and really appreciate all of our audience members patience and grace with me in my internet connection and thank you for understanding but really really thank you for talking to us and sharing your work with us and hopefully we'll be able to find our folks joining the platform with various platforms and connecting with you to learn more for sure thank you so much for inviting me Karishma and I'm so excited for you in the journey that you're undertaking and look forward to staying connected I really appreciate that and yes I can't wait to meet you in person finally very soon when I'm in the US so thank you for that for sure and once again thank you so much howl around to all of our producing partners and to our two wonderful sign language interpreters for being with us through all the technical difficulties so thank you we'll see you next week hopefully I'll have a more stable form of connectivity then with for our final panel session and yeah we'll we hope to reconnect you know through the through the waves so thank you everybody and see you next week thank you have a great thank you