 All right, there's Frederick. Looks like the gang's all here Nikolai Frederick, I was wondering if you guys might just catch me up But you worked on like two weeks that I was out in the document space I was out last week to solve. Not sure. Oh unacceptable Nikolai Sorry No, so According to the agenda Week ago just so far away Yeah, I I said I was gonna start on the first draft of the release notes that was shown off yesterday We may want to go over them again if you're up for it And Nikolai and I are going to work on documentation for I guess you say updating and adding links to the quick start guide and see if we can We're trying to come up with a guide for basically idea for for a CNF developer for our talk And then we want to try to work out how to how to tie that into a into a presentation and also into Into a future into a future quick start cool redo in mind Our lab right now so I could beta test these quick guides for you Cool and Watson also has either volunteered or been volunteered to work on videos and Those videos are basically like It says it says Watson would like to go through an install and write a concise set of install steps So it would be covered in the script, which are four steps operator persona Building with the pre-built containers deployed with helm. The second one would be applying connecting to NSM basic version Basically like colonel using a kernel connectivity to start off with in the future the another one where they use a shared memory client Third one is a CNF developer building something simple for NSM And the fourth one is something for NSM developers. At least those are the four personas and They draft script for what NSM is and how do you use it for different personas and then creating a video based upon the script And A week before we end up talking about release notes The what is NSM On the on the website, so the what is NSM needs to be Completely changed or are modified. There's actually two things one of them is the what is NSM Document the second one is we need to come up with a very simple. What is NSM that we could stick on the on the front page And I have some ideas towards that and see if we can get them so we can get them included in there not Yeah, I can help you with some of that stuff too. I can write like a couple drafts and send them to you Have we identified anybody to who's gonna like just kind of help us give the website itself a facelift Yes, in fact, we have someone from the CNCF who is working on that. Let me pull up his name Luke Perkins Okay, cool So Luke Perkins is he's doing an initial draft and then he's gonna he's gonna tell me when he's ready to to show off a Draft and I've had some detailed conversations with him about What we're trying to do with NSM and how we're trying to onboard people and personas and so on so he should be he should be well aligned with what we're doing here and I Would like to see by getting them engaged with this particular group as well so that we can make sure that We're all in sync and that we can produce content Based upon what he's building and he can build his site based upon what we're expecting to put up. Oh One thing on the side actually it has pushed the PR yesterday with the new logo I don't know if you have seen it but I Mean the new logo is orange and the rest of the site is not I'm I don't know if we should we should just merge it so that the guy from CNCF can work on top of it or any ideas I Think the site just needs a lot of love overall It still says change to draft next to the what is in this and that I did and even though it's a draft It's still showing up. So we just need to give it a little TLC Yeah, so Luke should have access to the new logo. So once it becomes available, he's gonna Slurp it up and then he'll design the websites based on that but Yeah, for for now, I mean, we definitely need to make sure that our website is at least acceptable, you know, it looked like it was done by a bunch of of Infrastructure programmers and not That is Actually five-year-old probably do a better job than I would I Have posted the link to the temporary deployment of the site in the chat So if someone is interested can check it there with the logo. I mean, I was talking into mute So, yeah, we just need to make sure we're tracking this stuff Frederick, I'll help you with some of the what is an SM stuff like just Put some words on paper for you that we can then start to attack Do you or Nicola? I want to share now though and we can start looking at them release notes and go into those Sure, so let me grab the release notes then I will stick them in the meeting notes and that's already there Yeah, the release notes are currently in Google. They're not in They're not in the website yet, okay, I got a link so whoever's typing give me a second There we go, they make sure that that's editable to everyone as well Yeah, it's that so anyone who had the link in that edit it So my recommendation is to start off with comments. All right, I've shared the Document as well Can it can everyone see it? So first from the From the table of contents Does this look like a reasonable order like does this convey the information that we that we want or is there any other Information that we want to that we want to add in I think table contents wise it looks good We don't want to make sure that the second to last getting started section is Really well fleshed out and makes it super easy for people to Find what they're looking for Cool So in terms of the ordering of it as well Like I stuck downloads at the at the top It is this Does this look reasonable or do you want to stick it at the bottom and have network service mesh release notes up first? I put downloads right after getting started So you read through getting started and then here's all the links pointing to all the stuff that you might want to go Snatch up Okay, that sounds reasonable Are you watching Blade Runner in the background? No, I've no idea what the hell that is. I think it's a neighbor like between using a power tool or something Yeah, that's the neighbor Okay, I Live in Blade Runner by the way. Okay, so then I need to change this as well to be Maybe smaller so this currently heading to needs to be hitting three there we go any other See a special note from the committers. That was right, so How's that? How does that look at this point then? Nikolai, are there any other major components that we need should call out? In the reference architecture as well when you jump down to the reference architecture I mean, I know that our glossary is a bit long and probably includes kind of some not directly connected definitions, but Yeah, we probably need to so so for example, we don't have here the the definition of the network service I mean the the network service I Manifest that we I don't know. I don't remember if this was part of the Glossary tool, but we have the we have the dimension of the data plane We have the registry we have the client and the controller, but then we don't Explain how because all these things are essentially bound together by a thing called network service Which we have a yeah You mean the the network service resource Yeah Yeah, okay Yeah, it's interesting to sort of figure out how you want to define Sort of running software components versus resources that are used by those components. That's always an interesting thing Yeah, I agree, but we say a reference architecture here. I mean, yeah For some context I skipped ahead as well because I feel like this is the area highest risk But for context though is saying what's new And rather than just this bunch of whole requests, I thought what we'll do especially for this release We'll do it more structure more structured and say network service mesh is brand new Explaining what it is the API itself saying that And just giving a quick description of what it is and then Calling the stuff that we've built at the moment the reference architecture Guess I'm gonna take the API build a bunch of stuff out and never use a reference architecture and it's still NSM Yeah, I would I would tend to actually focus rather than on the resources Because the resources for things like network service measures with certain extent an artifact of the fact that the reference architecture uses Kubernetes API database as its database It might be better to focus on the API's Particularly the PIs that are broadly applicable, right? So for example the API that network service manager uses to talk to the network service mesh data plane That API is sort of specific to the fact we're running in Kubernetes You know, you could certainly run a different network service mesh data plane But it's probably not what you would choose to do if you were trying to drive a physical network But some of the API is like the remote dot network service API and the registry API Those APIs I think are generally applicable And so it may be worth calling those out and some of those like the registry API Does return information that is effectively equivalent to some of these resources? Okay, so perhaps so we should do so these particular ones were the actual Applications themselves, but our same perhaps what we should do is call out the API's to look at Yeah, I particularly the the sort of globally applicable API's Because the thing I occasionally see people confused about is there are some API's like I mentioned the network service Manager to MSMD. They're kind of locally applicable You could totally do it differently if you wanted to and interoperate just fine With the broader network service mesh But if you don't implement remote network service and you don't implement the registry API's You're gonna have a super hard time getting along with the rest of the network service mesh Okay, so I think there's two things that we need to do in this scenario then first is call out the specific API's Globally applicable and the second to do sounds like we need to create a visualization as well showing like where they where they fit in in those global API's That show only the API's they don't have to show anything else And that way that people when they see this they'll say, okay, so that's a cross-connect or rather That's the MSM, MSM and and so on I Think it's important to start with the global API like paradigm as well And then specifically calling out that Kubernetes is just the first reference architecture. We're working on So if someone who's like an ECS wizard, you know, and they do all their stuff in Amazon and they like that container You know scheduler they can come in here. You know, if you're a no-mad guy like we Position it as a tool that can be used across multiple, you know Cloudy type technologies and we just happen to do Kubernetes as our first reference architecture because it's the most widely adopted something to that effect I think that's definitely a very important Because a lot of people Because we talk so much about Kubernetes, there are a lot of people who do Relicability if I had a nickel for every time it said someone has said this is awesome But I have this for VMs and physical networks Only to say look that actually is the way the architecture is built. We're focusing on the implementation Exactly, so we just need to make sure that that's it's apparent that this is like a reference architecture and we just started with Kubernetes, right because I get the same things and We've got like this small group of people who like to use no-mad for whatever reason and trying to like, you know Sell them on the idea that this isn't just a Kubernetes tool, especially since we put the heptagon right inside of our Our logo we might want to CNCS gave us a home and you know, Kubernetes is the most widely adopted one But there is a lot of people that like use ECS, right and it runs in Amazon So we need to make sure that people understand that there's global APIs that aren't directly, you know tied to only Kubernetes Maybe we should ask them to switch the heptagon to the CNCS for I like the logo Me too. Let's leave it I'm super super pleased with the logo and in fact, I'm so pleased I'm just gonna drop this into the chat because I'm kind of super happy If you're curious what it looks like on the current site, this is a preview from a PR I'm playing with Yeah, Nikolai sent us this he's lamenting though that the rest of the website is in blue and green So there is Luke who's running loose who is is threatening to to make improvements in that department No, he's he's already started and he sent me he sent me a Netflix fly Samation where he's where he's gonna stand it all up. So right now. He just has a very basic General template that he starts with well and the other thing I'm super happy about with this link is if you the fava cons work Which means we get a really good proof point that the logo is still usable down to fabric on size Yeah, one one recommendation is it possible to change github documentation for the events menu to match the orange And that'll make it blend in a little bit more The darker orange I don't see why not one of the things I was going to ask Alex is if she would be so kind Is to help us with producing a color palette? Because I do not have the right eye to produce a matching orange. I just don't and I'm not sure how many folks we have in the community who do So I have to get my family involved Cool so in terms of Okay, so so for so this will I'm going to rewrite portions of this to emphasize that the this is a reference Kubernetes architecture and Describe I'll describe what it is and describe that that's the That there's other architectures that Can fit in with Kubernetes is not a required component of network service mesh The requirement is you implement the API? well, and so for the For the reference architecture sections then I just stole the the definitions from from the glossary and Made some very minor modifications to make them fit in what I'm The thing I'm a little concerned about though is that there might be some very something that are specific in the glossary that rely on other Definitions on the glossary so people may not know what like what a remote monitor is or anything like that So the way to handle that is just put at the very beginning that you know Certain definitions may have dependencies and the full definitions list can be found at link to get hub glossary But I glossary link here and explanation that additional, you know dependencies can be found there Okay, then that means that whatever we link to needs needs to be something that doesn't that doesn't change so well, we'll have to find the the Well, so Nick Nikolai put, you know, at least our text version of the glossary in get and at this point changes have to come through PR So it should be semi-static Okay, and and that's scenario What I what I may do then is pick a pick a specific Get this tag and and look it from there. Yeah, I mean probably our best bet is is exactly what you described So He's a get get tag for Glossary and reference the tag And the tag will make it human readable so they don't have Type a 3 2 7 9 whatever Do we want to go over into the actual definitions themselves or are we comfortable with since we've gone over them in glossary already? I'm comfortable I've listed as well that we are see and see if Sandbox member I was so delighted to see the call out this morning from the tech press about You know saying nice things about us because we're an open community Cool, I haven't I usually look for never service mesh news in the morning But this morning I just got up and jumped on the meeting. So I haven't seen it yet. It was on Twitter It wasn't an article. Thanks for fixing that anonymous lemur Speaking of on Twitter and stuff to we should have on something in the getting started guide That's like not just the technicals, but since this is the very first release like a small little section of different community resources so when you say Community resources your can you give a Explanation so like getting started, you know, we have like the getting started guide Which is the technicals, but there should also just be like as part of the getting started a Like this is how you get involved with the community. Here's our Twitter. Here's our this, you know Check out our calendar for weekly things. But yeah, like exactly how to get involved Perfect, just because it's the very first release, right? So when people look at these release notes, I'm like, oh, this is interesting You know, how do I get involved in this they can there'll be a section right there So I might get a point to how to get involved to add that into every talk that we do and I think it should be part of every Release that we do as well Yep, I think that's important because you know as different reference architectures come out, you know There's going to be different types of those four personas you were talking about that Watson's going to help us engage as Different personas are involved. They might come in five releases in and if we've cut it out at that point They're gonna be sitting there trying to hunt for information versus it just being readily available Cool. So is there any others that we want we have the meetings slack Twitter mailing list Yeah, those are the communication channels that come to mind probably a good place to crew from is the page Look at which page Community page on the website. I just put the link in the chat cool, so Say, of course, it doesn't make it easy to get to your chat I'm sure Okay, so we have mailing list slack meeting No, we should stick get up on there as well You could never visit any of these four and still get involved with issues and for requests and So one of the things that I that's been bothering me a little bit is I actually like the idea of listing out as many people as we can remember To as part of the as part of the release and saying these are the people who have helped us out But one of the problems I run into is that I know for certain that There's so many people would have helped us out that we're going to miss important people And so I'm So I'm trying to work out like you how to how to deal with this Because you know, some people will just post things like on the on pull request and say, oh These people have committed to to the code But I think our community is way more than just like who's contributed to And then the thing is no absolutely not just way more than who's contributed code We're super blessed to have people who very early in the community picking up They're incredibly important And and even things are not obviously our community So for example the unbelievable amount of support that the skydive team has provided for us I mean they various points have literally turned features overnight in skydive in response to wouldn't it be great if we could And and so we just had just unbelievable amounts of support from a large number of folks. Well, I think inevitably we're going to forget some people But maybe we can start working on the list and I guarantee you we will not get it right at first But we will get closer as we go in time That makes sense Yeah, that makes sense to me because I would love to just like be able to list every group every every Person because like for me like every person who's got involved in helping some way whether it's jumping in and producing code and landing Committer status all the way down to Even just like asking like, you know, what does this mean and that helps us clarify, you know Even if it's even if it's just a couple questions Oh, yeah, I mean and it all helps some of the you know, like the whole Sarah story literally came because Someone at IBM who was asking hard questions and said well, how would you solve this use case? And that was Mike spritzer. Yeah, Mike spritzer. It was like, oh, that is an awesome use case We're gonna we're gonna run with that They showed up for just like one week and after a couple questions and then oh, yeah, I don't know He asked really good questions and then And then Sarah happened Okay, so maybe we should do that as a start off as a separate document and then we can work out how do we want to Yeah, and I like to make that sort of world World-editable so people can share because there are lots of people in the community with lots of experiences and I Also sort of tend personally towards sort of calling out You know More more more personal anecdotes are some of the contributions of people, you know So one of the one that comes immediately to mind for me and this goes way way back was You know Prem when he was basically, you know, the literally the day after the first network service mesh Fock Was willing to stand in for a brainstorming session In the phyto cape and lead that discussion because like I couldn't make the time that everyone else could make Yeah, and so I think I think these are sort of you know, these are the kinds of memories I think we want to codify appreciating in our community Okay, so I'm gonna add I'm gonna add this section in just now. We'll have to work out how we want to word it and Then well we can go ahead and I'll add that to the to the link if I can manage to get the You know There it is it's under a submenu ridiculous And is that is the document at that link relatable? If it's not it will be actually, let me let me double check Get sure of a link. No, no, let me Let me copy this one instead and see if it's different. Okay. It appears to be the same except it has equal sharing instead So we'll use that one Says you only when I click on the link Try refreshing it again. I will I see anyone can edit just me change it there That is our Yeah so add yourself add yourself down and We'll And we'll we'll spread it out and we'll we'll put together a initial initial list and depending on the size of it We'll find a way to Call it out. Anyways, you know Yeah, and I I do like the notion of adding sort of specific memories of people's contributions that that makes me super happy when I think about it Yeah It also helped because if we stuck if we stick mike's name on this I said, why am I on that? But then we stick Ask questions that led to sarah's use case being created. You're like, oh, okay Yeah So we we have sorry, uh, hi jack your your meeting I You may have had other things you wanted to talk about Who me? Yeah, you Yeah, we're going over release notes. This is going in the release notes. That's it technically documentation. I'm documenting everybody's name right now Watson you want your full name? That's good And don't forget Denver I put him up higher He retired my book then wants it Actually, he just popped up higher up on the uh zoom list the Taylor who's in my a today? Don't forget, uh Ian Daniel Every time I say Ian I think of The guy who played Lord of the Rings doing his little skit with like sir Ian sir Ian Are you spelled Daniel's last name? There it is. So we also have um Kyle Messery and uh certain and Sergei to stick on there as well. I don't know how to spell Sergei's name I think there's a T in there somewhere I think it's like that We'll double check them Look it up real quick. I think we should be easy to find him Yep. M-e-s-t-e-r-y Yeah, this is going to get to be a to get to be a really lovely list and I Super ecstatic about us doing this. It really speaks to the culture that we've built as a community How do you spell prim's last name? I think it's Sankar S-a-n-k-a-r We'll double check it Romkey, how do you spell romkey's last name? No idea Yeah, me either We'll float this at the uh next network service match meeting as well and just say Add yourself in Eventually when we get someone who fixes uh primarily focuses on fixing bugs, we'll call them McLeaner For those of you who know the cinematic history there. Oh, no, this is going to involve nicknames too, isn't it? Oh, this is going to come dramatically out of control I can see already Next thing you know, we're going to have we're going to have icons to go with it I think somebody's saying something but it's not coming over the microphone All right friends. I need to drop a little bit early. Um, predrick, I will Help you work on that. What is an sm over the next 48 hours? fantastic and I'll I'll go over you with you on offline as to as to what my thoughts are Okay, sounds good cool. We still have around A little over 10 minutes so back to Back to the document I'll ask you the same question ed as I asked everyone else since we were not here at the time Is there anything in the release notes that are That are in that are not in here? And what do you think of the ordering? So I think this is actually good not only because it actually lays out a good set of initial release notes, but It sort of drives some of the release motion as well, right? So downloads for version 0.1.0 Kind of begs the okay, how we put it somewhere to be downloaded So Yeah Have you seen what is to is doing mean you essentially get an archive with all the helm charts and Some that is actually super useful. God knows we've productively stolen so much from a steal already Take a look at their one point our release And There are older releases. There are older releases. Let's see what their zero that one looked like Okay We are better than this, right? Oh, we're we're different from this Is the initial release? No, so next time someone asks so so how is this different from this to you? You can say look dude look compare the release notes Well, may 24 2017, okay, can we make may 24 as our release date that would be great when like two years later? Oh, that would be funny That's a one from May, June, July, so One year and two months. It's actually not too bad It took us a year to get our first official alpha release out. So But you know starting from community zero to To to this so I think we're doing a good job Well, and quite frankly what we have is unbelievably better than what we would have had if we had inverted the order Completely agree. Okay. So So the downloads, I originally had it up here and then we moved it back down here again But then I'm thinking maybe maybe it doesn't make sense to stick it right at the top So the so here's a question. Do we get more value for downloads being after like right at getting started? Or do we feel more value on getting it straight at the top? Oh, I would I always tend to put the getting started at the top and I would tend to put the downloads under getting start as a sub bullet under getting started because We all know how engineers think the first thing they're going to want to know is okay. How do I run it? They may not even bother to understand what it is um, so I would sort of put getting started you've got sort of the um and and I tend to think not so much in terms of download for getting started, but I tend to think in terms of Day zero day one day two right day zero is how do you and NSM enable your cluster day? One is how do you install a network service into your cluster day two is how do you consume it? um and That's sort of how my brain works and then we talked about wanting to have a list of demos Um that we could actually point people to and I think under getting started. We also want those demos so they they basically have The most immediate sense of oh, okay. This is how we do it And they can get you know the faster something works and they feel good about it the the happier they're going to be okay, so Does that look more more reasonable? That's definitely a more reasonably more reasonable direction from my perspective, but please note. I'm not necessarily known for reasonableness Well If we weren't if we were if we were reasonable by By years ago by a one years ago's definition cool, so I think something that I would really enjoy some help with on this if people have time Would be to help fill this document it up make it more clear Make sure that there's no typos you know make making making it look really Making them look really good. And then when we're ready to do so We will we will copy it over to to github once the release branch has been well When the release branch has been cut and we'll start to to Throw in all of the information There for the for the release notes so if this looks If this looks reasonable this disordering Is so jeffreys definitely going to help is is there anyone else that wants to help with anything any of the specifics on this? That's not be a problem. So jeffreys and I I think can can handle it And then what we'll do is next week We'll we'll circle back up on tuesday and wednesday meetings and get more feedback on this So I want to have a couple iterations before we before we do our release to make sure that it's That it's clear that people are generally happy with it the network and that we're good to go Um, so I think we only have I think we only have five more minutes left Is there anything else that we want to cover? I think we're good Cool, well in that scenario Thank you everyone for your time and thank you jeffreys if you are watching this in the future for letting me hijack your session And With that, uh We'll see you again next week at the same time. Take care