 Hello, welcome to Dare to Dream. This is Debbie Daschinger. The show has been nominated for two People's Choice podcast awards and a Webby Award. I love seeing an underchartable where we're at in the numbers and it gets delivered to me each week. So we're really ranking in the top 100 in all of self-improvement on Apple Podcasts in the USA, as well as under 50 in many countries throughout the world. I love how small the world is going and I love how prevalent the conversation is becoming. So thanks for joining us again because we're sure to deliver another amazing cutting edge show for you. Got a great guest today. First, I want to thank Dr. Dean here and Access Consciousness for sponsoring this show. They do beautiful energy work out into the world. So if it's something you want to experience or if you want to learn to be a facilitator, go to accessconsciousness.com or Dr. Dane, D-A-I-N, here, H-E-E-R.com and learn more. I myself am a media visibility expert out into the world and I run a visibility hub. I teach everything that I do. So for those who would like to write a page turner book, I offer private sessions to clients who want to become authors, as well as ongoing Zoom group writing membership, which I love watching my students, if you will, although they teach me too, really accelerate and go from feeling like the writing process sucks and is arduous to something they're learning. My God, I have writer inside of me and I'm looking forward to writing each week. That thrills me. I also run a guaranteed international bestselling book program fully done for the authors. So you can go to debbie-singer.com to learn more. And then for those who would like the ultimate visibility formula, I show you how to be interviewed on radio and podcast with great results. I've got some free tools and templates available for you, including how to learn what your message is out into the world and how to articulate it. You can go to debbie-singer.com. It's all free for you there. Learn because it's truly our time to become visible and share the message. We came here at this really interesting time to share. So my guest today is somebody you have not met previously on the show and I'm excited to introduce you to him as well as to have conversation with him. And what if you knew what it was like to go from broke to billionaire? My guest today is Peter Sage. He's a well-known international serial entrepreneur, bestselling author and expert in human behavior. He's a highly sought after speaker and coach and has spoken on five continents. He shared the stage with the likes of Sir Richard Branson and President Bill Clinton. In 2013, he was awarded the Distinguished Brand Laureate Award from the Asian Pacific Brands Foundation. This is wonderful because previous winners included Nelson Mandela, Steve Jobs, Hillary Clinton and Tiger Woods. And in 2015, Peter was named one of the greatest leaders and entrepreneurs by inspiring leadership now alongside Sir Richard Branson, Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. If you would like to find out more about him, do so at PeterSage.com, SAGE.com. And Peter, welcome to Dare to Dream. It's so great to have you. It's a great pleasure to be here. Yes, I'm delighted to have the opportunity to be able to have a conversation and see if we can add some value to your listeners. Absolutely. I have to tell you, in all transparency, I tripped over the words, he's an expert in human behavior. And I thought, oh my goodness, what is he gleaning about me right now? Like, is that a filter you operate with all the time that you can sort of see through the matrix of people and understand a lot about them before they actually speak? Yes and no. Yes, because it is a skill set that I've developed over the last 30 years doing what I do. But I tend to try to be off duty when I'm not on, if you know what I mean. So, yeah, it's not something that you just really want to continue to filter through, but some things obviously pop out in an easier spot. Super interesting. Yeah, that's quite a gift. Has that ever come up for you in a way that was a great assist for you or for a client in solving something or getting to the bottom of something? Is there a story there around a time that you were able to use it and knock like a big boulder out of the way so there was a lot of freedom instead? Absolutely. I mean, part of my background as well, as I've been in personal growth for 30 years, 15 years I worked alongside Tony Robbins as an experienced trainer. So I was traveling around the world with Tony and really doing a lot of psychotherapeutic intervention. And we did a lot of study around understanding different models of psychology. So all of the traditional stuff, your dynamic psychotherapy and humanistic, gestalt, NLP, all of the all of the base models. And a lot of it was so that we understood what worked when it worked and what, you know, why it didn't when it didn't. So we could look at the organizing principles and the primary tools that we essentially looked at were what are the needs that are driving people? And there's only six. So when somebody comes to you with a behavior change request, it's very rare that it has anything to do with the behavior they're asking about. And I'll give you an example. So businessman comes to me because he wants to learn time management. Yes, I'm known as a business coach. I work with high level CEOs. And the first thing I'm looking for is what is the pattern that's driving this? So within about two minutes, it's pretty easy to spot that it's got nothing to do with time management. It's got everything to do with the fear of letting go of control. Wow. And therefore entrepreneurs have a problem that most people do to be fair, which is they tie their self-worth to their net worth. And one of the reasons people compromise their values around money faster than anything else is because the primary fear that most human beings have is the fear that they're not enough and therefore ultimately they won't be loved. But if you have a look at in the context of that example, so if his net worth was threatened because the business wasn't being done as properly as he wanted it to, of course, nobody's going to run a business as well as you because you're the business owner. If they were, they'd start their own business. So no one's going to have that level of oversight or passion or commitment as the business owner does. So he was micromanaging because he didn't want to let go of control because that would mean if it did go south, it would impact the financial worth of the business, which would domino into the self-worth, which would trigger the fear he's not enough. So therefore the pattern evolved of trying to do everything himself and not delegate. So therefore he was under the illusion that he needed time management. No, he didn't. He needed to be able to understand how to let go of the need for control. Take that out of the way. And all of a sudden, yeah, no one's interested in time management anymore because you're able to delegate. Makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. I think that's super interesting. This is a problem I know a lot of entrepreneurs have actually is allowing someone else to come in successfully to their business. And so the next question is so how does one let go of control because that's not easy when you've got your talons, right? And really enmeshed in something to just let go. Sure. And there's a difference between letting go of control versus letting go of the need for control. It's really that need that once you start to understand that you're damaging your business through having the pattern that you're running rather than supporting it, it's actually counterproductive. Once you shift the context of understanding around that, it's quite easy to let go. Once you learn a skill set instead of learning time management as a skill set, you can't manage time anymore. You can manage the current of a river. You can position yourself better in the river, but yeah, you can change your relationship to time. For example, time serves me rather than thinking you don't have enough of it. But the end of the day, you can never run out of now. When it comes to being able to let go of the need for control, understand that you are essentially choking your business yet through being unwilling to allow it to grow through the competence of others. And when you see that you're the incompetent one for not actually letting go of control, it becomes a lot easier because now you attach insignificance to the continuation of the pattern rather than getting your own significance from trying to control everything. That's so interesting what you just said, because it speaks to something I've noticed as a pattern over time with people, which is the very thing they work so hard not to create and they build up defenses or behaviors or limitations is actually what they end up creating. Of course, yeah. And it's the for entrepreneurs as well. I mean, I joke about it and it's not a laughing matter, but it's almost comical when you see it through this lens. It's okay. Okay. I'm going to basically sacrifice the best years of my life, ruining my relationships, ruining my health, not watching my kids grow up. So that hopefully I can arrive at one place where I've made enough money to be able to end up paying for my divorce, hiring a personal trainer to get my health back and buying my kids loads of stuff so they love me again. I mean, that's it. They get to the top of success mountain and realize that they want to jump off because they were playing the game of feel great when, which is a false game. The only game in town is playing feel great now and not feel great if or feel great when and that's again, that's a hamster wheel that very few people learn how to step off. Very interesting. I know that one of the talks that you're really well known for is how to do your best when life gives you the worst. Did you ever think we'd be going through a time like we are right now on the planet where life truly is giving many people the worst, the worst health, the worst conditions, job layoffs, uncertainty, separation, anxiety. There's a lot going on out there. I also think there's a lot. Personally, I think there's a lot of opportunity. However, just to speak to the experience that a lot of people are having that this is the worst it could be with COVID, with the riots, with the breakdown of so many paradigms. Talk about that. How is that for you? Is you've been an expert in this? There's there are certain demarcations on the journey of emotional maturity. And unfortunately for a lot of people, they find out too late that there is a big difference between biological maturity, which unfortunately we don't get to vote on. That's part of the rule set. I don't care how many creams we wear, what vitamins we take. At some point, we're going to look older. That's part of the game. But biological maturity and emotional maturity aren't necessarily correlated. There's a lot of emotional teenagers running around in very adult bodies, as you probably noticed. And that journey of emotional maturity really has three particular milestones, shall we say. And it's the second one that I'll focus on the question, but I'll just outline the first because this again is a big part. The first major milestone is where we finally become OK, not being liked. And for a lot of people, that's a ooh, because most of humanity, unfortunately with, you know, for the last goodness knows how long when we've lived in the illusion of certainty has spent the vast majority of it running around somewhere to reattach the umbilical cord. They're desperately seeking approval, validation, connection, love, all of this kind of external stuff which can only be found internally. And as Eckhart Tolle said, once you truly love yourself, you can never be alone. But a lot of people are feeling separation right now in many different ways. And a lot of that has to do as well with living in what I call Goop. So many people are drowning in Goop. It's a sticky, nasty substance which stands for the good opinion of other people. And if you're being driven by external validation, external approval, you are never going to be able to let go of the insecurities that plague and rob you of your potential because the only way you can live your potential is by being authentic. You can't be authentic while you're this giant chameleon running around trying to adapt yourself to other people's approval strategies. So getting rid of Goop is the first part. And I'll share a quick technique with you because or a context because it'll set people up especially in the current climate to help. You know, I believe that we all star in a movie called Our Life. And I'm pretty certain that everybody stars in the movie of their life because I think they're the only one that's in every single scene of the movie of their life. So by definition, everybody else is either at best a supporting cast, maybe a spouse, a colleague, sibling, what have you, but 99.9% of people you meet in your movie are nothing more than film extras in your movie. And the definition of a film extra is once they're not in your scene, you're no longer thinking of them. And they actually don't even have speaking lines either. They're just in the background. Exactly. And here's the thing. We're atmosphere. The challenge is that because we see other people, sorry, because we think other people see us as the star of our movie because we see ourselves as the star of our movie, we think that's reality. We think everyone sees us as the star of our movie. But guess what? They're starring in a different movie, their own, which means by definition, we are either at best a supporting cast but most likely a film extra in everybody else's movie. Now, when you understand the gravity of that, what actually means is that most people don't care enough about you to bother to give an opinion because they're too busy being worried about what they think you're thinking of them. Right. And everybody's walking around this bubble of self-importance thinking that everybody else is looking at me and my bubble of self-importance, right? So when you realize it's just a ghost, it's a myth, it's a bubble, and that can burst, you can start letting go of your need for approval because nobody else cares. And if you're using victimhood to try to get connection, I've got news for you. 80% of people don't care about your problems and the other 20% are glad you have them. So if you can come to a place of letting go of the good opinion of others, you move to the real part of the emotional maturity test and that's where most people are faced right now. And that is the day you wake up and understand, not just intellectually, but you actually understand emotionally that life is not a comfort-centric experience. Life is a growth-centric experience. So we're not here to avoid problems, we're here to take them on because if you look at everything in nature, it operates by two laws, growth and contribution. Everything in nature grows and contributes or it's taken out of the food chain. So we think we're different because we've been in this manufactured reality where we've been sold a consumerism-based idea of everything, you know, you need to live a comfortable life. Well, let's use the metaphor of an athlete. So if you didn't know you were an athlete and you walked into the gym, Debbie, the personal trainer is hunting for you. He's trying to get you on the treadmill and make you run until you throw up and do push-ups and lift weights and you don't like that experience. In fact, you're hiding behind the weight stack every time you see him, right? But if you know you're an athlete, you walk in that gym, if you're not throwing up in 30 minutes, you want your money back. You've got a whole different perspective as to why you're there. See, most people right now are taking the perspective of the muscle fiber which is, you know, on that last burning rep where you're sending messages to the brain, stop, please, for goodness' sake, you know, send pain. I'm being destroyed here, broken down. But if you understand that life is a growth-centric experience and you take the attitude of the athlete, you're proud of busting out that last rep and not being able to lift your arms for a week because you understand that life is a growth-centric experience and will continue to provide feedback the more you resist it. There's a lot of people that have an opportunity for growth right now that are kicking and screaming in the gym, complaining that they didn't want the workout. I've got news for you. Ask better questions. Questions of the steering wheel of the mind. And if you can start asking questions like, hang on a minute, I'm living in a time now where at the end of the day, the problems aren't that bad. You want to go back 200 years and speak to your great-great-grandparents, right? You're like, oh no, guess what? A, there's a nasty flu going around, right? Oh, B, you know, I've lost my job, right? And they're like, hang on a minute, yeah? Your grandmother died in agony in childbirth trying to get birth to my mother, right? Your cousin died of septicemia when he was doing the garden for pricking his thumb on a rose-thorn, right? We're talking about problems here that challenge the utopian society that is a myth versus looking at this and saying, you know something? I have an amazing opportunity right now to demonstrate to the people around me, my family, my kids that no matter what happens, no matter how strong the winds come, I can still retain my center. You know something? We'll get through this. We're not being invaded with nuclear weapons here. We're not suddenly going to get a situation where the house blows up. I mean, let's be real. Let's chunk it down. Yes, it's tough. Yes, you may have to lose your car. Yes, if you lose your home, you're going to find out how many friends you've got and maybe sleep on a couch for a few months and get a smaller home. More stories for the grandkids one day to show them that life isn't a bed of roses. Now that may sound a little tough and I'm not trying to not have compassion because there's a lot of people suffering and I get that. But if you're starting to focus on what's wrong versus what is the opportunity here for me to demonstrate to the people around me that I can actually step up because at the end of the day, the strongest trees grow in the strongest winds, not the best soil. And if you want to be the best version of who you are, pray for some strong winds and stop moaning when they show up. Yeah. Yeah, as I say, there's so many opportunities right now and most people are scared because they're too focused on themselves. Sorry, that's the way to go. If you want to shift your balance, Tony said something to me years ago. He said, power moves to those in direct proportions, their willingness to serve. And if you're totally focused on me, me, life's going to give you some feedback that this is not an egocentric experience. This is an ethnocentric experience. And when we can start to focus on what we can do to contribute rather than what we can do to get, you'll tend to find that your needs get met. But panicking and turning down and buying into the fear mentality is like running into dunking donuts, trying to lose weight. Not going to happen. Yeah, I completely concur with what you're saying. I immediately, at the onset of this back in March, I was actually on stage speaking when all of this began. And I don't think we understood the gravity at all. We just didn't get it. It was 200 of us in a ballroom. And then we came out to this really interesting world. And I still lived in that mindset and then I quickly realized, oh, okay, I'm thinking this is going to blow over. This isn't blowing anywhere right now. And I had a lot of impact. Best friends moving away, out of country, out of state, like all my anchors really had gone away and a few other really important pieces. But I immediately got, oh, well, if I'm a co-creator and I have the ability to lock myself inside a house and be alone for a couple of weeks, no less five months, what might that be about? What might I need to face the person in the mirror? And on an individual level as well as a collective level, like what's really not working? And also at a sort of a perverse level, I thought, this is genius. This is kind of amazing because we were all going so fast who had the time to stop and process at this level. And so I'm just wondering when you say, there are other questions we could ask to help us instead of going into the stress. And there's this great quote from you that a lot of stress comes to us when life doesn't fulfill our pictures. So life is not fulfilling a lot of people's pictures right now and there's that mantra out there. Well, I can't wait till we can get back to normal. I don't know that there is such a thing anymore. I don't know that this doesn't completely change all of us, possibly quite for the better, going forward. So what kind of questions can people ask themselves? What kind of ways can they get through what they perceive to be so much difficulty? Okay. I would definitely start asking questions that would focus the mind into possibility thinking rather than scarcity thinking. Now, what is it about this situation that I can turn to my advantage? What is it about this situation right now that I can utilize to work on myself? And it's funny, I remember a time where I was in Spain. Spain was one of the first countries to go into lockdown and everyone started complaining because it was two weeks and then it was like more and more heavier. I was being interviewed one time and someone says, oh, yeah, we want this lockdown to end. And I said, well, let me give you a different perspective. I said, I remember when I was, I think I was 12 or 13 years old, just at the age where, you know, you're more intelligent than your parents and yeah, I'm willing to tell them it. And I think I wanted to watch a film one evening because my school friends were watching and my mom was like, no, you've got to go to bed, do your homework. And of course I'm like, you know, I can't wait till I'm 18 and you can't tell me what to do kind of, you know, mature response. And she turned around and said something that had a profound impact. She said, son, she said, don't wish away your childhood, you only get one of them. And I thought, yeah, because I don't have any big world problems. I don't have to worry about a mortgage or who's buying the food or any of that stuff that mom and dad talked about. I, and it may be things like, hang on a minute, the amount of opportunity people have had to bond with their kids to get off the rat race, to not worry about whether they're stuck on the I-95 or the 405 or whatever it may be. Yeah. And I'm like, don't wish away your lockdown. You may only get one of them because at some point when we do go back to work, you're going to be diving in the car wishing, I just like to sit down and read a book. Oh, I haven't seen my kids for two days because I've been in meetings late. What have you? I thought, wow, do you remember that time where we had those weeks where we just sat down and were able to take a breath? Yeah, again, you may only get one lockdown. Don't waste it. So, you know, don't look at it as a negative. Look at it as an opportunity. And that's one of the best ways of being able to stop phrasing your own questions right now. Yeah. The long walks people are taking. Some people are getting into shape and losing weight in ways they never had the time or the capacity to do. Some people, I'm back in a relationship that was over, frankly, right before COVID. And after however many months, we just got back as friends and then started to make all new choices because in those months, I know I had done a considerable amount of changing and healing and processing. And when I came back out, I had all new perspective on who I was willing to be and what I really wanted. So, it's created enormous change for me and my business too. And it's interesting what you say about opportunity. I just, I have a couple of partners out in the world and one of my book partners and I, she's so awesome. We were talking today, we're having a business call and she was sharing with me something I thought was radical and brilliant and she was saying, you know, Deb, I'm a liberal. I don't believe in one camp or the other. So, I'm actually watching the politics right now. I'm watching all of them on TV as a very neutral Switzerland party but I'm not watching it so much from the basis of who will I vote for, although it will inform me. But much more as someone who puts on events and she said, and I'm watching everything they're doing because there's genius on both sides and there are pieces and elements that I'm picking and I'm going to imbue into my events going forward even if they're online. I'm like, who thinks like that? That's enormous opportunity. That is so cutting edge and brilliant and I know how successful she is and she will. She'll probably pull these essential elements that nobody else is using but politics are using for this grand show and to get your attention and she'll do something amazing with it. So, I thought that's just one example of a genius way to use these times. Here's what she's doing. She's firmly starring in her own movie and unfortunately what a lot of people have been suckered into which is a pretty poor career move is that have been recruited as unpaid film extras in the big budget disaster corona movie rather than saying, okay, I co-create. I'm here and if I focus and the way you broadcast a decent signal into the quantum field to influence probability in reality is by uniting the heart and mind together. So, whenever the heart and mind are aligned then you're putting out a pretty clear signal and we know from every top level university study that when you do that at a certain level you can influence probability. Reality is subject to influence. Anyone that's trapped in an old material paradigm right now is just behind the times. So, when it comes to doing that your heart and mind are aligned in your own script. You choose the script, you rehearse the scenes and you have a higher probability of them happening. Now, the problem is what unites the heart and mind for most people faster than anything else is fear which is why so many people are buying into the media BS narrative that is designed to recruit them into their media movie as a statistic so they can justify rate card etc. or whatever agenda they're pushing and you get thrown off your own script. Well, if you are united your heart and mind and you put out and you connect to gratitude and you're creating the director of your movie will find a way to make the current scenes in your movie to your benefit. In other words, now I had a testimony that will come through the other day from a beautiful woman in Denmark who was like on her last throws in COVID hit and it threw a business in and out for millions of dollars and she was like living in a little place and her son was panic attacks and home all this kind of thing. And she logged on to one of my calls and she said it was just one of those phrases that triggered everything. And it was when I said listen this COVID is going to be the absolute best thing that's happened to me. I'm going to be excited to see how that shows up because I have no clue, but I know it will because that's the signal. That's the narrative I'm writing because the left brain likes to work in straight lines and there's no straight lines in nature. The primary pattern of nature is the wave. It's the wave that gives birth to the particle not the other way around. The only place where a straight line is the shortest distance between two points is on a piece of paper. Everything else is nonlinear. You want to think the fastest way is a straight line and go out of your door and walk in a straight line to your office. That's not going to happen or try to drive a straight line to the supermarket. It's not going to happen. You've got to get down to the intersection, turn left, head south to get on the Cloverleaf to head north and that's the fastest, most efficient way. So when it comes to how do we create efficiency that ties back to what I said about letting go of the need for control because there are no straight lines in nature. If you see a straight line, it's man-made which means that the river of life is always going to wind. Every river winds regardless of topography. So if you say, this is my goals, these are my pictures and I'm going to march north towards my goal and all of a sudden the river bends left, you freak out, what do most people do? They don't see that as part of the genius narrative in the universe as a nonlinear shortcut. They get a shovel off their back and they start digging a channel through the bank of the river in a straight line. Pretty poor use of energy. Rather than letting the river take them round and then probably catapult them back round even faster in the direction they were going to go. So it's about practicing conscious non-resistance. Not to be confused with apathy, that's different. Yeah, pray and move your feet but it's far better to work with the current and allow or trust the wisdom of the current rather than fight against it from a place of anxiety or resistance or animosity or fear and you'll usually find that the river will take care of you. Yeah, I really like that because when the mind sets up a statement such as what you did and that's a big bold statement to say this COVID is going to be the best experience of my life ever and I can't wait to see what it's going to bring and then the mind also looks for proof that that is so, right? So I think there's a beautiful blueprint to set out into the world and then wait for the events and the situations and the people to come to you to say see, there it is, see, there it is, see, there it is as you're gathering the proof that this is so. Very powerful. Well, acquiring positive confirmation and if you keep a journal of positive confirmation every time something shows up you have an incredible tool to silence the doubts of the left brain when it starts showing up because you can point to 20 different times where you thought it was game over and look, something pulled itself out of the bag. So I just had a book client come to me. I adore this man and he was trying to explain to me what he's doing. He's done some big, big work out in the world. He's written before but he wants to do things very differently and he started out by saying, Deb, I was all set to do this Sahara Desert Marathon but it got canceled for this year and we're hoping now it's going to be 2021. So I'm researching you, Peter, and I'm like, oh my God, you're a beast. So you are this really accomplished athlete like holy moly, I'll just let you tell people all of what you've done but I also want to highlight this ultra marathon. I myself have run two marathons here in Los Angeles for people who are wondering that's 26.2 miles, woo-hoo, right? But what Peter is doing and has done in the Sahara Desert is equal to six marathons, six, 26.2 miles. No idea how you walk after that. I can barely walk the next week after a marathon. So when you talk about what you have created, talk about overcoming self-doubt and eradicating limitations, my man. Talk about what you do out in the world with your body and what it takes here to create that because I know what it takes there. I have a sense of that. The body follows the mind every time and yes, the marathon day saw but it was quite the journey. In fact, day four is a double marathon back-to-back across the Sahara hitting 130 degrees heats where water is rationed to nine litres a day. That's for washing, cooking, hydrating and running X amount of miles. And at night, it's sub-zero because it's freezing in the desert. So and you're carrying 20 pounds, sorry, about 40 pounds on your back, 20 kilos with all of the equipment you need for the race or the food you need for the whole week, everything else. So it's self-sufficient. You've got to cook your own food. Yes, you learn a lot about yourself on something like that. And I actually learned a big lesson on the day of the double marathon. I actually woke up with food poisoning and I tried to save water the night before by not hydrating my food enough and it was all yucky at the bottom. But you don't care. You're burning 10,000 calories a day. You're putting in two. I lost 30 pounds in a week. Honestly, it's like, yeah. So yeah, as a weight loss program, highly recommended. But I remember that morning when the gun went off and everybody's running, this is the day where we're running 84 kilometers, 52 miles in one day. And yeah, I couldn't run. I barely had the strength to put my rucksack. And if you're too slow, you're out of the race. If you're behind the cutoff points to the checkpoints, you're out of the race. So I can't just judge. And I get everything I could and I got to the end of that day where the sun's starting to set. I ran 30 miles. I got the best part of 20 more miles to run through the night. And I was done. Temperatures dropping. So I've got to run just to stay warm. And it was in that moment where I sat down. I started to cry. I'm like, I'm done. And, you know, every trick I got in the bag was like not happening. Every positive thought, everything. You know, the two dogs on the shoulder, one positive, one not. Who wins is the one you feed the most, right? Well, my positive dog had been shot. And it was dead. And at that moment, life sent an incredible message. And I heard this trudging through the sand and I kind of looked up as the sun was setting. And I saw this blind old Korean guy who was in his late 60s tied at the wrist to his guide. And he was a competitor. He had a number on him. And I saw this guy trudge past. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on a minute. I'm a student of human behavior. What possesses somebody who's clearly not an athlete? A pensioner who can't even see where to place his feet want to run the toughest foot race in the world? I mean, why? I've got to find out. But to find out, I've got to catch him. So I ran after them and I found out through his guide who's also interpreted that a few years before his brother had died of cancer and every single year he ran this race to raise money for the hospice that looked after his brother. And I'm like, whoa, hang on a minute. If ever I needed a lesson that it wasn't about me. If ever I needed a lesson, why was I running this as an ego trip to boast to some girl in a bar? What I could do. Are you kidding me? And he inspired me. He inspired me to finish the race that day. He inspired me to finish the whole marathon. And it was really a, again, power moves to those in direct proportions their willingness to serve. It was a great lesson. But yes, after that, I started passing on encouragement to other people that were struggling. I would sing, always look on the bright side of life. I was heading over the sand dunes and trying to help people off of water where I could, which is like just, you know, scarce commodity. So it was all about taking the focus off me and what I'm doing so how do I can help others? And that's really what gave me the inspiration to finish the race from that point when I was about to quit. Wow. Big lesson. That's huge. And then thereafter, how have you chosen the various risk taking athletic choices that you've made? I mean indoor rowing, open water diver, sky diver, champion marksman, infamous dangerous sports club. I mean, very impressive. What is it about these that calls to your soul that stirs that thing in your belly that's like, I need to do that. I need to have that experience. I tune in. As long as it's not ego, as long as it's not, you know, reckless to the point where there's a secondary payoff of significance or anything like that. If it's trying to wrap my arms around life and hug the, you know, whatever out of it to squeeze out of this incredible gift we have, you know, you know, we talk about the movie of our life. Nobody's going to pay good money to go and watch James Bond rescue a kitten out of a tree for 90 minutes. All right, that's not a film I want to go watch. No, what do you want in a movie like that? You want drama and adventure and intrigue and comedy and tragedy and romance. You want everything. And if I'm lucky enough to get to the end of this movie and film my final scene and choose my final line, I would want it to be something like, wow, now that was a movie I would pay to see again. Yeah, that's good. Not some utopian little like safety net where nothing I was never challenged. Yeah, parents know that every social study that's been done since the 1960s will demonstrate that the unchallenged child remains juvenile. Yeah, if you've got kids and it's their four years old and it's their first day at school and you're standing at the gates and they don't want to let go of your arm because it's scared and they're going into an environment and it's different. They don't want to be judged and there's people that they don't know and an irresponsible parent would tell her say, yes, okay, you never have to go to school. I don't need to fill that. No. You say, listen honey, is somebody you got to go through? I'll be waiting at three o'clock and that's part of the growth. You build the muscle. I want to just read this. This is, I thought you're linked in bio was so excellent and it says under your name, Peter Sage, glass ceiling destroyer for frustrated high performers, top rated trainer and member of EO, six-time TEDx speaker. Duh, done. Dunk. I love that. Glass ceiling destroyer for frustrated high performers. So I take that to mean that these are, have been typically very functional people in their lives, probably very successful people in their lives actually encounter the same in what I do around visibility and they get to a point and across rows and it's like, it's not working anymore and or and or something else is calling to me. Is that what that is about? Yes, there's, there's places where people get in life, especially on the frustrated entrepreneur, like I mentioned earlier about, you know, wasting all their time getting to top success mountain to realize it isn't what they thought, but there's a massive difference there between somebody learning the lesson of really experiencing the difference between a life-chasing success and a life-chasing fulfillment. And if you don't get that distinction early on, again, you're usually on a hamster wheel to heart attack bill. And for most people, it's that they limit themselves because they, they engage in what I call the curse of the white rabbit. And if you think of a Greyhound track or a dog track, the Greyhounds run because they're chasing a rabbit. And now, do the dogs ever catch the rabbit? No. Is it because they're not faster? No. Is it because they don't have the right diet, the right train or sleep in the right kennel? No. The dogs don't catch the rabbit because the game is rigged so that they can't catch the rabbit. And if they get close, the guy with the control panel turns up the wattage and the little electric bunny goes a bit faster. Now, unfortunately, most entrepreneurs, most people are chasing goals like little white rabbits, thinking that when they catch them, they'll be happy. And we've all experienced that game. And the problem is the curse of the white rabbit is this, you can never catch the rabbit of fulfillment by running on the track of achievements. Not because you're not a good enough entrepreneur, not because you're not a good enough parent or businessman or woman, but because the game is rigged. I remember if I was 16, I thought when I make my first million, then clearly I'll have made it. Guess what? I made my first million. And then I haven't made it because obviously I need to make two million in case I lose the first, right? And then five and then whatever. And I've worked with people worth 700 million that are miserable as hell because they're not a billionaire. That game never ever ends. It just doesn't end. You cannot catch the rabbit of fulfillment by running on the track of achievements until you realize the only way to break that curse is to come to the awareness that you already are that which you seek. Now, at that point, you can go have fun and chase whatever rabbit you want. You're not validating yourself. Go build a business because that's what entrepreneurs do. Dogs chase rabbits. That's what they're born to do. But you don't see a dog at the end of the race say, you know something? Around three races this week. One, two of them. Still haven't caught that damn rabbit. I quit. Or I need some doggie pro's egg. No, you don't see that. You see dogs ecstatic at the end that why they got to run? Entrepreneurs build businesses. That's what we do, right? Whether we win, whether we lose, whether we make it big, whether we go swing the bat, play the game. I had 27 businesses that I started since I dropped out of school. Some have failed majestically. Some have wiped me out. Some should have stayed ideas when I was drunk. And some have been multimillion-dollar international success stories and everything in between. I wouldn't swap a cent. That's the game. When you stop, you know, I say, putting your self-worth and your net worth together, when you stop chasing the illusion of certainty, because there is none, as most people have found out this year. When you start realizing that we're here to grow and contribute, not take, hoard, and come from scarcity. And we realize that it's time to focus more on others and what we can do to serve and give our gift to the world rather than worry about what other people think of our problems or what pictures we're posting on social. We're going to start to get better feedback from life. It's how the game works. What's the most difficult thing that you, Peter, have had to overcome in order to get to where you are today? Well, I know you didn't manage to get a copy of my book yet, but it's a very unique book. Yes, please. It's the 11 letters that I wrote from prison three years ago as the only non-criminal in Britain's most violent prison. Wow. I was running a successful business, 50 staff, six figures a month in turnover, and I was arguing a business deal in court in a civil action with a multi-billion dollar company on some business we've done six, seven years before. And I thought that their entire civil action was a crock. It was a bully boy manipulation and they had more money for more lawyers and they threw a contempt of court application at me, which I thought was a chess move. And I didn't give it much credibility but the judge had thrown it out in three minutes and I learned a lot about how the court system works. They sold it to the judge and he gave me six months as a civil prisoner. You know, I popped into court basically saying to my team, oh, I've just got to nip into court and get rid of this BS and I never came back. We had, you know, 100 people that signed up for my latest seminar, $6,000 a ticket. You know, it was a complete crap show. And when it looked like it was going south, I turned around to my girl at the time and she says, wow, she said this isn't going according to plan. I says, honey, here's what I know. I've been very fortunate at the last 25 years, millions of people around the world have benefited from my work. Maybe the real people that could benefit never get to see it because they're in someone like jail. If the universal, whatever you want to call it, wants to send me in, then let me go hold a light. Let me go. And I never went in as a prisoner. It was an identity. I went in as a secret agent of change. Oh, wow. And I also understood, and I wrote this in my first letter to my students, that theory doesn't cover the price of admission to the higher levels of greatness. You can talk a good game, but sometimes you've got to go out and prove it. And every two weeks I wrote to my coaching students, my senior coaching students that were paying me like 50 grand a year before I went in to learn, you know, my client's work and I said, this is a great case study. I said, don't worry about me. I'm just on location for six months filming the prison scene in my movie. I said, but here I don't know what's going to happen. Let's see how it unfolds. And cut a long story short, I ended up getting a lot of the prisoners off drugs and I'm stopping suicides. I redesigned the intake system to reduce violence between the wings that's now being rolled out across prisons all over the world. I was, I created a bit of a movement, shall we say, and I won a national award for the work that I was doing in there. And I came out and not only was it the most incredible adventure I've ever had the privilege of living, not only do all the initial allegations from the, the mega court get dropped by the way, which I knew they would in the mega cooks. It was a crop, but my coaching clients around says, wow, we learned more from the 11 letters that you wrote than following you around the world for the last two years. You have to publish. I'm like, well, these are private letters. I've never meant to be a book. And they said, but yeah, this would change lives and I'm very pleased to say that was my hot button and we published it and it's changed the lives of pretty much every single person that's read the book. If you check any review on Amazon, Goodreads, Audible, what have you. So, and if it hadn't been for that experience, that would have never have happened. And that's helping so many people right now because you see it behind me. The tagline on there, is an inspirational guide to conquering adversity. Tell me what else is required in today's world. Oh, what a great picture. Oh, I love the headshot with the bar. That's very good. Thank you. Seriously. So that is so inspirational. Art, did you literally leave that experience unscathed? Because when you're saying one of the most violent prisons, I'm nervous for you. And this is already in the past. A lot of people were. I mean, how in the world? Three deaths in one week was the worst week. I just missed a murder as I got there. There was attempted murder in the first 10 days I was there. Blood on the floor, daily occurrence. Yeah. So, I not once was in the third letter. I wrote the third letter was very raw, very real. I talked about the times I doubted myself, the times where I was, you know, I really had to dig deep. But I also talk about the violence and I talk about how I deal with it. And not once did I actually feel scared. And part of the reason for that is one, a conscious effort because fear will attract victimhood. But more than that, I knew I was there for a bigger purpose. And Einstein said the most powerful question somebody can ask or answer in their lifetime is do they live in a friendly or hostile universe? Now, I think that if I live in a friendly universe and the universe is sending me in there to go to work, why would I have to be worried? Did you actually make any friends? Yes. In fact, when I came out and I put on one of the seminars that I had to cancel, I gave several prison scholarships to people that did really well. And I'm now actually Godfather to one of the prisoners, my one of my cell mates, his son. Okay. And yeah, there's a reason it's that the book has won so many awards and been voted Book of the Month and has attracted so many New York Times bestselling authors to say it's the most powerful book they've read. And again, it was never meant for that. And I, as I said, I look back now, things so grateful for having that experience. And yeah, it wiped me out. I lost my business. I ended up hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal debt. I had zero staff when I came out. I canceled my wedding and my relationship. It was theory doesn't cover the price of admission. But I went in there smiling, losing everything, created magic and came out. Not because I'm superhuman or speculating BS like that because I trained myself to ask better questions. I trained myself to essentially have a decades of conditioning myself for positivity. And that's where, again, theory doesn't cover the price of admission to the higher levels of greatness. We're in earth school and that's a graduation event. Dude, what did you learn as far as, you know, you said that you sort of poo pooed what was going on thinking, oh, I'll be fine. You know, they're just really positioning themselves. This isn't going to go through. Is there something you do different now that that has really caused to alter inside of you? Will you pay more attention or do things in a different way? Yeah, I mean, I, if I was to go back into court, I'd understand what the game is. And the game has nothing to do with truth. It has nothing to do with fairness. And anyone that you know that's been through a court action will validate that or any lawyer that you know will validate that. Instead, there is a huge difference at higher levels of spiritual context and awareness. You prioritize context over content or as the court system prioritizes content over context. So as a lawyer, as a barrister or whatever term you use over in the U.S., your job, nobody goes into court with the agendas to lose. Your job is how do I manipulate context in order to make the content fit the pictures that we're trying to represent? That's the game. And it's essentially who's got the best storytellers and who can position themselves in the best way. And I had no legal representation of such because they'd frozen my accounts and they spent 200,000 pounds, that's $300,000, just on the committal. I mean, it was insane. But they're a $140 billion company and they can afford a $100 million law firm with no worries about the budget. So I didn't have a chance at the end of the day. But I, it would have been, if I'd have not been found in contempt, I would have probably ended up clipping somebody off and they're pushed by driving home and gone into jail that way, the universe would have found a way to get me in there to do what I did. Right. But it's genius. It found the only way in English law for me to be smuggled into jail without ever being accused of a crime, change the system, change lives. We have changed thousands of lives with the book and then smuggling me out again unharmed without even having a criminal record. I mean, you've got a tippy hat. You've got a tippy hat. It's like, come on, dude. Yeah, full respect. Yeah, mad respect. Here's to the universe for that. Yeah, very clever. Very clever. Much smarter than I am. So what is the ritual of practice, Peter, that you use every day that keeps you grounded or open or functioning in the best possible way? Great question. I'm a firm believer for many, many years in a morning routine. And so I get up usually quite early between four and five. I'm one of those guys and I will meditate. First, I'll hydrate, I'll stretch and then I'll meditate. I will journal, I will do my reading, usually my spiritual reading in the morning. I read a lot of the work of Dr. David Hawkins, which I'm a huge fan of. Power versus force, power versus force in the map of consciousness. You see behind me, I'm actually on the wall, picture of Hawkins and that. That features a lot in the inside track in the letters that I wrote because I was calibrating the prisoners. I was calibrating the prisoners. It's a tool for human behavior. It's unparalleled. So I do a lot of my reading. I'll train, obviously I'm keeping shape. I'm just short of 50 years old. And I could run a marathon tomorrow if I wished. And so health is a value of wine. And then I'm ready to start the day. But if I do heart math as well, are you familiar with heart math? I am, sure. So yeah, I like heart math. And yeah, that's if I skip my morning routine, like tomorrow I'm traveling, I'm up early, I've got a whole load of stuff to do before I leave for the airport. I'm on a cruise ship for the next week in Croatia, teaching, which I'm really excited with. And then I'm bouncing over. I come back to the island. I kiss my dogs for 24 hours repack and then I'm off to the U.S. for three weeks. I'm teaching, I'm giving talks in Knoxville in Kentucky up in Jackson Hole in Wyoming and then over in Buffalo. What an interesting idea. These are pockets of the U.S. I wouldn't have anticipated. Yep. And see how they find me. Find you. That's great. Good. Middle American needs you. This is wonderful. They're beautiful places too. And this is Dear to Dream, Peter. So you've obviously created an enormous amount. But what are you next, Dear to Dream? What are your future dreams and goals? My dream now is to help raise the global consciousness of humanity. Now, whether that's just moving somebody forward a couple of millimeters, whether it's just leaving a thumbprint on somebody's life in a way that allows them to see their greatness. But I know why I'm here. I know what I'm here to do. And yeah, I'm not good at many things. You know, what I am good at in world class and the universe has definitely showed me what my role is. So to Dream, I've created something that is essentially what I would call the most affordable transformation program. And my dream is to put a million people through that because I know right now that the world needs more leaders than they do people who are falling down. People who can stand up and be an example and the invitation to others rather than crumble in the, you know, because they don't like what they hear on the news. And so, yeah, I'm dreaming of being able to create an entire army of people who are so self-sufficient, so self-centered, yet so selfless in their approach to life that we can really, you know, have an impact. And if I'm grateful enough to be able to do that before I film my final scene, then, yeah, awesome. So folks who are interested, petersage.com, any other places and spaces where they can find you in your work? I want Instagram, obviously Facebook, YouTube, the usual. I try to put as much content as I can for people who have no resources to really help people at the bottom of the food chain. But I also have programs from, you know, 29 bucks a month right up to, you know, my high-end coaching. So, yeah, I try to make an entire spectrum to just help people who are ready to help themselves. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. I'm so glad you got through the other side of that experience so you can keep providing us with the genius that you roll out. There was some great sound bites today. I mean, I got a lot out of the conversation. So, always an honor and a pleasure to meet a fellow traveler and somebody who can light up the light bulb up here so I can see things differently as well. David, absolute pleasure. Keep doing what you're doing, my dear. You're adding so much value to so many people. It's been a pleasure to be a part. Pleasure. And I end today's show with this quote from C. Joy Bell. You will find that it is necessary to let things go simply for the reason that they are heavy. You can subscribe to this podcast. Leave us a five-star review. And if you'd like to see us because you're listening, go to youtube.com slash Debbie Dashinger. It's really fun to see myself and the guest. And we've enjoyed Peter Sage. We've got so many luminaries coming up. Dr. Sue Mortar and James Redfield among them. So just keep tuning in because every week is a new episode. And remember, don't just dare to dream. Dare to make all your dreams into your reality.