 Yeah, the leader of the airing brotherhood you've got power you've got control you've got money you've got people who would kill for you How hard was the decision then to leave it and then put your own life in jeopardy? Well, it wasn't difficult to leave it. I mean it was people asked me about that all the time How difficult was the choice? It wasn't a difficult choice, you know You do once I knew what I was looking at And I knew that that was contrary to who I was as a human being and the way that I was raised It was a very easy choice what followed I Never could have anticipated by way of more violence and corruption and Just an entirely different, you know by way of example The scenarios are so extreme by way of being opposite But similar nonetheless Then my time with the airing brotherhood is the first ten chapters of my book My growing up time in the airing brotherhood and that's that's ten chapters. That's part one part two Is once I stepped away working with law enforcement testifying in court threats on my life, you know snipers on a roof bombs on the Transportation car. I mean it's just corrupt administration That's an entirely different scenario So, you know, I'm really at odds here right now I may just go ahead and publish the first ten chapters and let that be out there because that says one thing and Then continue working on the second ten chapters and put that out there because it says something entirely different We'll see what was the reason for leaving Michael Well, it's those two truths You know, there was individuals that were going to be executed and had and were executed as a matter of fact Of course, there was a visit by the elders. That was huge so far telling me you can't serve two fires and Then there was the idea of There was a case up in Oregon and It was a Hell's Angel case And it wasn't something that was condoned by Sunny Barger. I want to make that clear Because he was the leader there the Hell's Angels. He just recently passed over Again, I'll say it rest in peace, you know, Sonny was a friend and But Margo Compton and her two six-year-old twin daughters and her boyfriend were executed by two shooters Now Margo was a witness against Buck Garrett who was the Second in command of the Hell's Angels time She testified for the Feds against him for pimping and pandering. He got four years But when he found out where she was at and he did He sent two shooters up there They went into the side door They shot Gary who was on the couch They went into the bedroom. They took Margo's two six-year-old twin daughters They laid him on the bed wrapped their arms around their teddy bears They held Margo and then they shot the little girls in the head while they made her watch and then they shot her in the head. I Cannot Ever under any circumstances seeing myself condoning that being a part of that being associated with anybody Who would be a part of that? So that was one of the factors and I went up and I testified against the Hell's Angels in that case And the courtroom was filled with Hell's Angels There was threats on my life and everything else and I would do it again Without hesitation There was a situation where an individual was testifying against members of the Aryan Brotherhood And so the subject was broached in so far as to kill this individual's wife and daughter and then his parents And it took everything I had in me to move them away from the wife and daughter and the mother and it left the father And I still bear the responsibility for that father having been assassinated Because I didn't stop it. I stepped away from the brand, but I didn't stop it You see I had an opportunity to stop two guards from being killed In the federal prison by AB members And so I went to law enforcement with that and told them that Guards are going to be killed and they laughed at me Because the Aryan Brotherhood had never taken a violent position against guards before but now that It shifted it had changed just like perpetrating violence against innocent people had changed And so with these changes Staring me directly in the face I had another choice to make was I going to be a part of this and I was not could not Would not and so I made the decision to step away but with that came a responsibility. I Had helped build this group this group would that was now going to Perpetrate violence against innocent people so I had a responsibility to bring that group down So I've done training films for law enforcement. I Went on a lecture circuit speaking strictly to law enforcement to put them up on that game same It and it continues to this day You know, I'll still work with law enforcement toward their understanding of what they're dealing with Whether it's drive-by shootings people that shoot into a house where children are killed. Are you serious? That's a warrior. I don't think so How hard does that to live without pen make all that obviously you can see you getting quite emotional whiff Well, you can't get killed like how do you? It's it's it's you know, you cope you cope you deal with that, you know, yeah You know the old promo faction over there in Ireland There was a time when I supported that by way of running guns and otherwise well when they hooked up with the PLO and they started bombing civilians Then I removed myself from it See man to man. I don't have a problem with that If as men we're going out on a battlefield and we're going to do battle because we believe in some principle Whatever it may be even if that's just controlling your resources To this day, I don't have a problem with that What I do have a problem with is when you victimize innocent people And people call that collateral damage. I don't think so It doesn't work like that. These are people who haven't no idea what the game is If you're in the game Then you know what the rules are So that if it comes to violence, you know why But if you can't get to an individual For whatever reason and you turn around and you blow up his house and destroy his family Or kill his children or his wife. That's not a warrior That's not a human being Now I know it happens all over the world But in this context I'm talking about gangs and there needs to be a lot more discussion about it You know, I hear too much talk about all you know, he's a snitch. She's a rat That's what that's the language the gangs develop so that it won't come back on them They want to shame you So that you won't give up their game. I mean my goodness, you can go back years where you know, maybe your parents told you Don't be a tattletale Well, I understand that in that context, but that's not what we're talking about here We're talking about victims. We're talking about innocent people and that's important very very important And there needs to be a dialogue about it. What is it they say? See something say something You see in this gay and age that becomes critical If you see something and it doesn't look right say something