 What does the term alternative credentials mean to you? Is there a better term? And what's the danger with that term? I know this is close to your heart. It is. Equity issues definitely are. I think not to hijack the panel or the title of the panel, but that we get into a tricky place in putting alternative next to credentials. As I mentioned before, going sort of in earnest after this question of what do we need to be ready? The first thing to name and own is that it's more than credentials. There's some kind of combination of competencies and credentials and also connections that get us ready. And so if we pull back from credentials as sort of this mobility marker, we have to also recognize that there are other things that come up alongside of it. So one of the things that I get concerned about when we talk about sub-degrees or alternative credentials is that the power and possibility of smaller forms, newer forms of credentials that are better aligned to workforce needs or where we're headed in the future is that they're nimble and that people truly can be equipped. And they could, in fact, I believe truly, close some persistent inequities. And they also could perpetuate those inequities if they're not connected to quality assurances, if they're not connected to employer buy-in and the right kinds of validation, if credibility and connections don't come with them. So we can take a poor person in an under-mobilized community where there are too few opportunities for economic advancement and make that person more competent or give that person an alternative credential and not actually promise the person the kind of economic mobility that he thinks he's getting. And so I think instead if we look at how the credentialing marketplace is evolving and expanding and how the economy and the job's marketplace is evolving and expanding and how the work that we're doing sits at the confluence and how we're sort of in a new time because of the rapid changes, then the question is not what are alternative credentials but what are the implication of all forms of credentials in this new world, in this new economy, as Heather said, both the emergent ones and the traditional ones and the ones that we don't even know are going to be created. Yep, that's right. And that's one of the things that Stephanie mentioned that we're very conscious of in the Connecting Credentials project and that Lumina Foundation is very conscious of this danger that you could unintentionally create a second system. A second system, right? So, Jeremiah, you had an interesting perspective on sort of the history. For me, I feel like it's more or less unintentional sort of classism that we sort of unnecessarily present to students in middle school and most circumstances certainly in high school where we present this, you know, you have to get a four-year degree. That's the only way that you're going to get your foot in the door. That's the only way that you're going to make it in life. And, you know, it's not that it's not good in some circumstances to head for that achievement. But, you know, if you pay attention to, you know, the presentation before us or, you know, you look at bureau labor statistics data, you realize that there is an incredibly growing gap between, you know, high school and four-year diplomas where there are, you know, millions of jobs in the next, you know, 10 years that are going to be created in that space where people need very specific education in order to do those jobs and to label them with the word alternative, I feel like does it a disservice and it just adds to that stigma that already exists where, you know, trades and, you know, some of those are the best paying middle-class jobs that exist that are very stable over time. I mean, we're always going to need electricians and, you know, those kinds of things and by intentionally saying, you know, hey, you need this four-year degree, you're saying, oh, this is some, you know, cloud and that you're doing a great disservice to these other, you know, there's other, all these other nomenclatures, there's micro-credential, there's nano-degree. I mean, why does it have to be so diminutive? You know, what is the, I mean, sure, there are subsets of other things, but, you know, it's like, couldn't we say something positive? You know, if you look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics data, they use this term post-secondary non-degree award and I think for me personally, if you just took the word non-degree out of that, you would probably be getting closer to something that I think is more reasonable, like, you know, it's post-secondary and it's an award. Okay, now we've got something that everybody can start to feel good about. You know, why can't we add positive words to it? We have to be like, micro, nano, pico, something. You know, anyway, that's just my personal feeling.