 Welcome to the Monday, February the 5th, 2024 meeting of the Montpelier Design Review Committee. We'll let members and staff introduce themselves. Benjamin Cheney, Member. Meredith Crandall, Staff. Steve Everett, Member. Martha Smurski, Member. Liz Pritchett, Member. Rebecca Owens, Member. William Russell, Member. Okay. Well, at this point, let Meredith review the remote meeting procedures and process. Okay. I just, I'm going to make one request. Is there for Orca, is there any way to shift the camera? You just did it. Awesome. Thank you. You're awesome. Okay. So I'm going to be sharing my screen here in just a second. I'm out of practice doing this all on one little screen. So the stuff on the screen is more for people who are watching this via the live stream. I think everybody has gone through the spiel at least once so far now. So for anyone viewing tonight's design review committee meeting via Orca Media, you can participate in tonight's discussion via the Zoom platform through either video or telephone access options. So if you wanted to have the full video experience, you can type this link into your web browser, and I'll get a little notification that you want to come into the meeting. Alternatively, you can dial in using this phone number. And when prompted, put in this meeting ID. And again, I'll have a prompt to let you into the meeting. If anyone is having problems accessing the meeting, please email me at mcrandallatmotpillier-vt.org. For anyone attending via Zoom, turning your video on is optional. And if you are having problems with delays or hearing everything properly, actually turning off your video can make a big difference and make sure that at least the sound is nice and clear. We also ask that everyone please keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking. This helps reduce background noise. Reminder that the Zoom chat function should be used only for troubleshooting or logistics questions. I'm going to skip over a bunch of the other stuff because right now all we have on remotely are members in ORCA. If somebody from the public comes in, especially if it's somebody they don't recognize, do be aware that I may shut down things and have everybody muted until I can determine exactly who it is and make sure that they're on for a committee item. All right, and then please note that in the event, the public is unable to access this meeting, and I would find that out via my email. The meeting will need to be continued to a time, place, and certain. All right, I will hand the meeting back over to the chair. At this point, if members have had a chance to look at the agenda, do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? So moved. And I'll second it. This is Martha. All in favor of the agenda, speak your names. Ben. Martha. Liz. Steven. And William, you'll be at the fifth vote because Rebecca's not voting tonight. I think William's muted. Yep. William, sorry. It's okay. Okay, thank you. At this point, we moved to officer elections and did you have a comment from Eric? Yes, so Eric's not here tonight. He did say that if no one was interested in being vice chair, he'd be willing to continue as vice chair until somebody was willing to step up, but he is quite happy to have somebody else take that role at this point. He definitely wants to stay a member of the committee, but he's happy to relinquish the vice chair role. I just wanted to make sure everybody was aware of that. Does anyone want to offer any? I'm willing to step into that role if nobody else has interest in that. Would you like to be chairman? No. That was fairly clear. Nobody has expressed an interest in being the chair at this point. Are you sure nobody wants to step up and take a turn? No, I'm going to make a motion that Steve be continuous chair. Okay, all in favor. I'll hang in there. We need a second. Okay, you're great. So we need a second though. I'll second that. All in favor of the speaker's name, Sen. Martha, Liz. William. That was pretty quick. Okay, at this point, I'll nominate Ben as vice chair. Do I hear a second? I'll second it. This is Martha. All in favor of Ben, speak your names. Martha, Liz. William. Steve. Do I vote for myself? You can abstain. I'll abstain. You passed anyway. Okay, congratulations. Thank you both. Okay. Unless anybody has anything else to add at this point, we can move to the first application for Cedar Street on our applicant for Cedar Street, LLC. New window for second floor egress. So do make sure you're close to the microphone. You can shift the microphone a little bit if you need to. I don't know much about it. I'm John Riley. I'm a member of Cedar Street, LLC. And I'm here tonight for the applicant. Sean SHAWN. J-O-H-N. Oh, J-O-H-N. Oh, John, I'm sorry. But you said, Sean, spelled your last name. R-I-L-E-Y. Okay. Thanks for coming and describe your application for the second floor egress window. Thank you. So my wife, Ellen, and I are the members of poor Cedar Street. It's a single unit residential property here in Montpelier. We purchased it. We closed at the end of December, but didn't take possession until, I think, it was January 20th. So we plan to lease the property to our son who has a voucher through Montpelier Housing. And one of their requirements was that there would be a second means of egress for one of the upstairs bedrooms. So we had ordered a window. We had lined up a contractor. And I stopped in to visit Meredith and Audra to say, do we need any kind of a permit? I probably should have done that earlier because we were starting construction that day, maybe about two weeks ago. So the photo you're looking at before photo was from the Lister's card. I think the city probably took it as part of the 2023 reappraisal that shows the before condition. And then I took some photos and submitted them showing the work in progress, the new window. And you can see the ladders where the carpenter had installed it. And I think there's some photos from the inside depicting the window, the particular property. There's a retaining wall on, I guess it would be the north-facing side of the house, which you can't see here. But it's where it drops down maybe another five feet. So if that egress window was on the 6 to 8 Cedar Street side, it would be a pretty significant drop if there was a fire and somebody had to get out. So the new window is 3 by 4. It meets the egress standards. It's been inspected by both Montpiler Housing Authority and Upper Valley Services. And they've approved it as meeting their safety requirements. So I did a quick look at the design review criteria. It's a nice little house, but I don't know that there's anything specifically historic about it. The existing windows and entrances have very little decorative trim or things like that. So we're here to seek the committee's approval for the window. John, are there more than one unit in that building? Just one unit. Two bedrooms upstairs. OK. So 1,200 square feet, 600 on the first floor, and 600 on the second floor. OK. Or less. Right. It's not a contributing structure in the Montpiler Historic District. I think it was originally a carriage barn. That's my understanding. Yeah, we've been told there was a fire. In fact, we saw evidence of it as we cut into the wall to create the new window opening. And then it was renovated, maybe in the late 1980s. There were bouts. It was connected to the building to the front two-seater street. And I think the owners of 2 and 4 created a condominium in the late 1990s because they couldn't separately convey the residential structure. So it's actually a two-unit condominium or part of a two-unit condominium. Thank you. Quick question. From the window, is there a ladder or something in order to get down, or is it just required that there be an opening there to access for, say, the fire department? My understanding, there's no requirement for a ladder or a rope or some means of descending. The assumption is the fire department would respond, and you could jump out the window or drop, I guess. Yeah, it's been a while since I've read the residential code, but I believe that this is actually in a secondary means of escape by the code rather than egress, which typically residential codes allow the building inspector would have jurisdiction over that, you know, we wouldn't. But just in case anyone asks, it might be more accurate to describe it as a means of escape. One option, and we have a unit with a similar situation, they make a very nice unit that right in front of the window. It's a window seat. The top flips backwards, and inside, there's a fire ladder, and you crank open the window, you flip the window seat back, you take the fire ladder out, and you throw it out the window, and it goes down and hangs down to the ground. And it's a pretty handy unit, and it's not super expensive. And again, that's as long as the code doesn't require it, but that's another option for you that gives you an easy means of getting out in case you decide to do that. And again, it's built as a window seat, and it literally bolts to the floor. And then again, inside, the top flips out, so instead of sitting on it, you just flip it out, the ladders inside, you take it, throw it out the window, and it comes down and you can climb out. And that product would be called like a window seat? Window seat fire ladder. Okay, we'll look into it. And again, that just, we have one, it works pretty well. I actually tried it. Of course you did. Well, it's good to know because you don't want to wait until an emergency. And it actually has standoffs, you can get it, it has standoffs, so it holds the ladder away from the building so that you actually have a place to put your feet as you climb down. Okay. So just a little note, Steve, I did mess up on this form and that I left the four historic structures stuff in here because I forgot that it's non-contributing. So all the historic structures extras in here, you can just X off. Okay. I'll just circle NA on those. Well, I mean, you still have the base, you still have the base standard that applies, it's just, yeah, the historic structures. The historic add-ons and then elevated criteria don't apply. Those will be acceptable anyway. Yeah. And the, any members have any questions, comments or suggestions? No. I don't know that my only comment is, it's always a bummer when we get things that come to us that are already been built. Yes. And, hi, there's no, it's just that that's a bummer and that's my comment. And my apologies. I live in a rural town, I'm on the zoning board, I'm the chair of the zoning board and we don't have design review. The work we're doing is largely interior. Yeah. It was kind of an after the fact whether we even needed a permit. So, I'm sorry. You know, that's okay. It's not the first time it's happened. Yes, I do. I mean, well, anyway, we'll move forward with your application. We have to read through a set criteria for all projects, exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing buildings shall be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district or historic structures even though this doesn't fit under the historic structure criteria. Removal of historic materials or alteration of features and spaces that characterize an historic property shall be avoided. Character defining features, finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize an historic building shall be preserved. Deteriorated defining features shall be repaired rather than replaced. Just move forward. Any treatments that cause damage not apply here. So in this particular case, we'll just call it acceptable within that criteria. Or existing building shall be recognized as a physical record of their time, place and use for historic structures. And again, we'll call that not applicable here. If it's, if it doesn't fit or are you saying it does fit the okay. Yes. Subset that applies. Subset. So it's just, you can just X out that historic structure a bit. Okay. You still have to apply what's in bold, the existing buildings shall be recognized as a physical record of their time, place and use. We'll call that acceptable. Yeah. For post landscaping not applicable, location appearance of utilities, mechanical equipment not applicable. Alterations to buildings called for by public safety, accessibility and fire codes shall be designed to maintain the character of the construction materials and features to the maximum extent feasible, acceptable, moving down proportion, compatibility of relationship between width and height of facades as well as relationship of width to height of windows and doors acceptable at this location for that purpose. Rhythm, the visual patterns established by the alterations of solid walls and openings, windows and doors and the facade of building shall be, shall create a rhythm acceptable, roof shape and equipment not applicable, architectural features, including the not limited to cornices, windows, shutters, fan lights and tabulator, trim and other forms of molding or character defining, detailing, prevailing on the existing building shall be considered in the alteration of a building. Again, for historic structures, architectural features shall not duplicate but shall respect and in this case, that's acceptable within that category. And lastly, windows. 17 and 18 are only for historic structures so that's when I messed up. So there's no 17 and 18 applicable today. Not applicable. Yeah. And based on those criteria, all in favor of the application, speak your names. Ben. This is Martha. I say yes. Liz, yes. William, yes. Steve, yes. So we have five to zero in favor. So you're here. So we'll have you sign this form, John, once Steve's done and then we should be able to get this permit out tomorrow. Awesome. John, us to email you when it's ready. Anyone just come pick it up? Sure. Okay, yeah. Cool, since you're gonna come up right around the corner. Sign just below my name on that box there. Okay, thank you. And then, Meredith, I think the interior work where we opened up the wall is pretty much done. Okay, so that's all with Michelle Sabry. So that'll be the building permit part. So she'll she... Just email her once you would like to come and look at it. Email Michelle and set up a time for her to come take a peek. Great. And then that's... Okay. You'll probably need to do the whole certificate of occupancy process. There's an extra form that came with your building permit packet. You fill that out to a test that everything's done and tally up what the actual cost was. But you can email Michelle and let her know and she'll give you this particulars. Perfect. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming and good luck with the finish of your project. Thank you. Has everyone had a chance to look at the minutes from January the 16th? Yes, and I make a motion to accept the minutes the way they're written. I'll second that, Liz. All in favor of the minutes, speak your names. Martha. Liz. William. That's four. So, minutes are approved. Does anyone have any other business at this point? I just wanted to welcome Rebecca and William. I hadn't introduced myself. This is Liz. Hello. Yes, welcome to the group. It's nice to have everybody. Everybody having met now. We'll do some more in-person stuff. Yes, we have a full group now. We do, we do. We should be in city council chambers from now on, unless there's an application that is really popular or not popular, in which case we'll have to find a bigger space either in the senior center or maybe in the high school if that's really crazy. But hopefully the senior center would have enough space because there's not really, there's not room for more than like 10 people. They have more chairs than that in here, than everybody's really wedged in. And especially in the winter when we can't open the windows, we're not really interested in packing them in like sardines. Not anymore. And again, the next meeting is Tuesday, the 20th following Presidents Weekend and Presidents' Day. It is, it is. I don't think I actually have an application yet, but they, as long as they come in by what, next Monday, they can get on the agenda. So I bet we'll have something. If no one has anything else, do I hear a motion to adjourn? So moved. And this is Martha. I'll second it. All in favor of adjournment, speak your names. Ben. Martha. William. That's everybody. I think we got everybody simultaneously. Thank you all for coming. Have a nice evening. Thank you. Good night.