 It's more than just open source, it's about connecting with people, it's about being part of the community, it's about sharing what you know and helping others. QCon is the best place to get hooked into the community and learn from everybody. And let me tell you people, this is just the beginning. Hey, that was a pretty cool video. It always gets me so pumped. Every time I see it, I'm like, yeah, I'm tired of this. Yeah, hello everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. This is super exciting. Today's daily wrap up. Yep. It's a third date, right? Third date? Third day. All right. Yeah, I think so. Well, all right. Well, if you have been joined some of the site events on Monday, then maybe it's your fourth day, all right. Yeah, yeah, awesome. Maybe let's just introduce ourselves for those who are due to our faces. Welcome, everybody. My name is Anais. I'm one of the CNCF ambassadors, and I just joined a company called Civo. And I'm also involved in the ecosystem through a challenge called 100 Days of Qvenitas. And I'm really excited to be here and talk about today's event. Awesome. Thank you, Anais. And my name is Leonardo Murillo. Everybody calls me Leo. And I'm community organizer for Costa Rica. I'm based off Costa Rica. And I'm Solutions Architect at Weaveworks. And I run a podcast called Cloud Native Lab Next that I hope everybody joins. So welcome, everybody. I hope you have a great, great conference. Awesome. Welcome, everybody. I just see the chat and all the welcome messages. It's really exciting. Keep us coming if you have any comments, questions, suggestions, any feedback, bots, anything you want to share about today. Just drop it in there, and we will keep an eye on the chat. Yeah. I just, before we introduce our first guests and start talking about today's amazing talks, I just want to say one quick thing to the community that everybody's joining right now. Because this is really, like, for me right now, this is being here. It's really special. I joined this community about six months ago, nine months ago, something in between that time frame. And I was actually, this is my second cube card. So the North America one was my first one. And I was watching people. I was like, oh, my God, I want to be involved. And I want to also be there doing the daily wrap up. So if you're watching this and you want to get involved, there are totally ways to do it, to contribute, and to get started. And maybe on the next cube card, you will lead one of those wrap ups, which will be really exciting. So I highly encourage everybody who's watching this to get involved, join the community, and yeah, contribute with your knowledge, with your energy. Totally. And it's an awesome community, everybody that's listening and watching us. It's open. It's diverse. It's a phenomenal live-changing experience. So join in. Everybody here is nice. Everybody respects each other. So it's phenomenal. If this is your first cube card, let's not make it your last. And keep coming. This is a fantastic place to be. So awesome. Thank you all for being here, and thank you for all the welcomes and the great, great energy. Awesome. So let's get our first guests, right? That sounds right. So just so everybody knows what we're going to be doing, we're going to have two sets of awesome, awesome guests. And as I mentioned, Cloud Native is all about diversity. So we have guests from all over the world today. We have Latin America represented. We have Africa represented. We have India. So Anais, why don't you tell us a little bit about our first set of guests? Okay. Well, I actually think they can introduce themselves fast. So I would actually prefer if we get them involved and let them tell us a bit more about themselves. I'm still getting to know everybody. This is probably the first time I'm live talking to some of the people who are joining. We're just the amazing thing of everything being online, right? You get to meet so many people and sometimes it's the first time you're talking to them. So yeah, let's get them involved. All right. Let's bring them in. Hello. All right. We got Abobakar, Jason. How's it going? How's it going? Welcome. Hello, everyone. Nice to be here. Awesome. Hi, people. Hey, why don't you all let's kind of talk a little bit about who you guys are. I'm going to just pick one randomly. So Cedio, why don't you start? Tell us a little bit about yourself. Well, a little bit about myself. I work at JALO doing some devops for chatbots and that kind of things in Latin America here. And I also a professor of operating systems. So I teach cloud-native technologies to my students and I contribute a little bit speaking and that kind of things from Likerd. So yeah, a little bit about me. Thank you for being here. My friends with Jason, yeah. Thank you for joining us. Awesome. Abobakar, why don't you go next? Yeah. My name is Abobakar Siddiq Angu. I'm a developer evangelism program manager at GitLab. My role, at least, to ensure a developer evangelist are able to speak more about cloud-native technologies and efficiently and help them be able to get you right numbers from all the contents they create. I'm also an active community person. Last week, I was the lead organizer for Kubernetes Community Days Africa where we were able to bring more than 300 people from the continent across 10 countries to be able to learn about Kubernetes. And one of the successes is getting out 60 students to be able to join Kube country of charge courtesy of the CNCF. I'm glad to be here. Thank you. It's really amazing. Thank you for your initiative. That's really great. I'm sure we're going to hear more about that. So, Jason, go ahead. Hey, Jason Morgan. I'm a technical evangelist over at Lincardee. I run the DC Kubernetes Meetup. I'm helping to organize the DC Kubernetes Days event. I worked with Sergio a little bit, which has been really nice. You might see me at KubeCon. I did a service mesh con talk, helping to build out the cloud-native glossaries. So for those who haven't checked that out, there's a common glossary of terms that we use in cloud-native that we're trying to just get shared definitions for, that the CNCFs actually are maintaining. And yeah, it's really nice to be here. Awesome. Thank you for being here, Jason. All right. So I have a quick question. So everybody here spoke at this KubeCon, right? The three of you. Which, who of you was this your first KubeCon talk? Jason? Okay. Okay. So I want to hear your story, Jason. What was it like to have your first time talking in KubeCon? Yeah, it was really nice. I'll be real. The pre-recorded talks definitely make it a lot easier. I got to do it a few times and make sure that I didn't misspeak or be too nervous on camera, which helped. Really excited. I've been rejected from a lot of KubeCons in the past. So it's really nice to finally get in and get to share something. Awesome. Awesome. And Sergio and Abu Bakr, you both are now experienced, right? Did your first talk was also during a virtual KubeCon or was it a, either you've spoken at a percentual KubeCon? Yeah. Mine was virtual, the last KubeCon EU. I think this year's one was much easier. Just like Jason said, you get to record yourself and be able to repeat it. But last year you had to schedule time and record through a particular interface. So you had to get it right the first time. But this year was really awesome. Yeah. For mine was on 2018 on an Oscon conference on Portland. So that was my first time was press on person. So yeah, not brutal. Yeah, it was a little bit like I was scared at that moment. That's cool. So Jason, we got a comment here from Christian in the chat that says that it takes a few rejects to get your CFP just right. So what would you tell our audience if they wanted to submit a talk? Like what are your tips and tricks to getting a good proposal in place? Yeah. So I don't have any real great advice. The thing I learned early in my career was get good at failing a lot and then the better you are at that, eventually you get less practice. So just be okay with getting rejected. Like every company I've wanted to work for has said no to me a couple of times and every conference I've wanted to talk to you said no to me more than they said yes. It's all worked out well in the end. Cool. Also maybe with adding, take this as a challenge versus and try to connect with other community members along the process. You can also give co-talks and that maybe makes it more easier, more approachable. And there are lots of people like if you want to get started for some speaker who can help you out. And I think that's really amazing. Yeah. Also to hear the stories behind the proposals. Totally. Totally. So other than your own talks, which other talks have you all seen that just kind of works? And enjoy. That's really cool. Yeah. It's probably all, but it turns out to be the same. So I caught my friend Adam Zwicky did a great talk on the evolution of service mesh yesterday, which I think was fantastic. And also like the office hours, the project office hours have been every single one I've gone through has been wonderful. So I'd recommend those really highly. Awesome. Yeah, for me, I think I've not really attended much of the other talks, but at least I attended out of Helm today, where they were seeking more people to contribute and try to become maintainers of the project. I think more of the CNCF projects need to be able to make it easier for new members to be able to join the communities. And onboarding is a crucial thing because it's scary when you just open GitHub and you go to Kubernetes group and you are lost on where to start. So listening to the maintainers, sharing how people can approach. And one of them was even advocating, please come and fix our typos. That way people are able to know that it's not just writing codes that are important, but also writing the documentation and making it easier for other community members to be able to join it. Definitely. Yeah, that is great advice. I was talking to somebody I can't recall that I think it's also good for the community to know that the CNCF is huge. I mean, the number of projects that is out there, usually when people think about contributing, they go straight to Kubernetes. And that's a very complex project. It's very fast paced, but it's not the only one. There's plenty of projects out there that can use help, that can have a growing community. So I think that's also good advice. Like become aware and mindful of everything that the CNCF has to offer because it's all sorts of really cool projects that you can contribute to. So Sergio is in the America's time zone, and this has been like a complicated cubecon for us in the Americas. Have you gotten the chance to watch any talk other than your own? Well, not at the moment, but I am really curious about the talk of Oliver from Lincardine that he talked about why ROS is the best language to build things. And yeah, it's really interesting. I want to watch that talk. And I also have access to the cubecon each day. I want to see, I don't know, the use cases for Kubernetes on the age computing thing. And yeah, I am curious about that at the moment. And I didn't have time at the moment to watch another sessions, but I am really curious about that topic right now. Oh, and I think this is also important to know it, right? For anybody that has not been able to watch sessions, you can still go and watch them, right? They're available for, you can watch them afterwards. So they're always real for you to look at them. What have you caught on, Naiz? What has caught your eye? So today I just, I focused really on the security talks. I like to use conferences as an opportunity to get involved into different technologies and expand like my knowledge and interests maybe across tools that I would usually not work with. And I really enjoyed the security talks today. So there was one on like how to hide yourself as an attacker. And the other one was an introduction to, to Kubernetes security. And I think both of them are really both principal for beginners, but then also it's really great to be able to, to access that and also in the long term and be able to, yeah, listen to something that you usually wouldn't necessarily think about. What is everybody's thoughts on that? What kind of talks did you enjoy? Did you, did you watch some of them? Yeah, I think I watched the security talk you were talking about. People are talking about in the chat. I forget the name, but it was a lot of fun. They made it like very much like a little movie, right? So they, I think they got to play with the format that you get with KubeCon where you pre-record things and that was pretty, pretty fun to watch. Everybody's talking about that talk. I'm like right after we're done with this, I'm going to go watch that. People are doing seriously. It sounds like it's been the funniest best talk in history of KubeCon. That's amazing. That's awesome. Is that the one from Ellen and Tabitha that people are talking about? Is that it? All right. Yes, that's so fun. Who knows who Ellen and Tabitha. Yeah. And everybody who helped them. It was like a production, right? So yeah, it's great how people come together across the community to produce something that amazing to share their knowledge. Next time we're going to need a red carpet. Yeah, we're going to have a red carpet for the next KubeCon for this type of production. That's awesome. Exactly. The Felipe Cabo says the Oscar goes to Ellen and Tabitha. No kidding. All right. I was going to say it's been really nice how many folks have done like the side boosts like Flux and Ambassador have been doing like booth things every day. That's been great, right? So you get like additional tracks of talks that you get to go watch. I enjoy it a lot. I think that's really good because there's one, there's one aspect that I've always wondered about this virtual conferences. And it's the fact that, you know, sponsors need attendants as well, right? They're the ones that are keeping the lights on. So I think it's very valuable for the attendees to actually go there and look what the sponsors have to say, right? Did they have good presentations, great products? Awesome. Yeah, from a career's perspective, connecting, there are so many ways to connect with projects and people online. I know all of you from online interactions. Exactly. I think that something to share. I think that Quebec on you, for me it's special. I don't know why. I think that for me it's better for this conference than the North America. I don't know why, but for me it's special this one. Yeah. And it's the second time. I don't know why this life feels like more diverse or I don't know. It's special for me. Also, you get more used to where can you interact with? For example, in the first one I went to last, the last in the North America one, I didn't know that there were whole tracks on Slack. I didn't know where people would hang out. And I think that really comes with the second time you attend and you will kind of have more familiarity with it. I think that's something we want to talk about. The whole hallway track sort of thing, right? Because there is that component that you usually get in kind of percential conferences, the hallway. Everybody should know that there is a way to engage with other members of the community. Right? There is in this lack of CNCF that hopefully everybody has access to a hallway track. So I want to hear hallway stories. Who? Because I've met, let me tell you something. I'm not the type of person that would like in an actual physical conference go to the hallway and talk to people. I'm just as much as I'm here, live in front of a bunch of people, I'm a little bit introverted. So I just wouldn't go talk to people randomly. But that's not the same for me in Slack. I feel much more comfortable. So what has your hallway experience been? Have you met people? Tell me some hallway stories I want to hear. Yeah, I think that when the people start asking you about things, and well, I think that my strategy for me is to share, well, I have my Twitter account, maybe you can follow me. And when they follow you, you can start chatting with them and share things or maybe share your presentation. Well, here's my presentation. You cannot be. You can see what I am doing. And that's the way that you start interacting with the people, I think. And yeah, or maybe just say, well, you can follow me on CNCF Slack or something. Yeah, I think that and some people, let's say that the people that are here on this streaming, we have like friends on common and we can start talking to each other. For example, I know Jason. I know Anais because I'm from SIBO and I know Leonardo. I am, for example, well, and we meet a lot of people when we are talking and sharing content in the media. I think that is special on Twitter. I think that is the way to share the things that we are doing and the community thing to share what we are learning. Yeah, for me, one of the ways I enjoy the conference, surely the whole way, is to spend a lot of time on Slack even while conferences are going on and on Twitter because a lot of people live tweets as talks are going on here. They are able to know, see what people feel about the talk that is happening. And I create special columns on Tweets Deck so I can follow the different conversations happening because aside from Slack, a lot of things that happen on Twitter and a lot of discussions go on that one comes if you just stick to Slack or you stick to the platform itself. And I also noticed from my talk that some people don't even join the Slack. So they probably just stick to Twitter and tweets whatever they want to say. I'd say one thing about the hallway before we dip out, they've been doing Zooms which have been a lot of fun. Like it's really cool to just meet. Like it's not quite the same as the conference but it feels really good and it's very social. And certainly I'm a little extroverted but I've been really enjoying that part. I think that's really cool the fact that there's all these different means to connect, right? For all the different personalities out there, whether you're an introvert, do you like text or Zoom and then you want to see people face to face that you got all these different options. That's awesome. What were you going to say, Sergio? I was reading a comment here from LinkedIn, mentioned that I do really appreciate the force on Central America here, Sergio on Leo in the QCon. And yeah, I think that we are trying to break the gap between the language and the things. I think that for me it was a big challenge to apply to a conference. Not this one, maybe my first conference in Oscombe. I remember that some of the organizer from Oscombe mentioned me, hey, why not to try to apply and be a speaker? And I say like, why me? I only speak Spanish and more or less English and that kind of things. Then I was like, I will try and see what happens. So I remember that in that time was not my best conference, let's mention that. And then I remember that the past year I tried to improve myself and give a better tag and was better. And this one, I remember that Ariel mentioned me that they double the people that are watching the conference. And a lot of people start to ask me, I say like, oh my God, I am improving myself and I am better right now. I was really proud of me. So yes, it's really interesting. And I tried to push my students to assist at this kind of conference. For example, on Tuesday, one of my students talked on the Service MeshCon about how to use Linkerdia and Chaos Mesh. And what's really challenging for a student to be in a conference, I was like a secondary speaker. And yeah, that's the mission, to involve the people, to include diversity, all the countries and cultures and I think that's the cool thing about cubicle. Yeah, I think it's also like the main topic of my session, diversity, because most times when we are in the US or in the EU or some of the other first, let me call them first world country, it's easier to not understand the kind of situation and environment that others are. For example, if I will talk about Africa, I personally have been denied visas like 10 times to different countries. I've even given up on visiting a place like somewhere like the US. I've tried to go to Kipkan before and I was denied a visa and the same thing happens to lots of people who get diversity tickets to this physical event, where they cannot attend because one, probably travel is extremely expensive or they cannot get the visas or due to a lot of other reasons. So and we see a lot of community and a lot of companies trying to create all these diversity programs within all these countries like that of Africa, but there's this ignorance on what exactly are they trying to solve? How should they create more impact? For example, like Africa, there is a lot of misconception about the continent. Most people when you talk about Africa, you see it like a country or a place you go to, you even see people say, oh, I'm going to Africa. Okay, Africans will be like, we're out of the 54 countries are you going to? So yeah, it's understanding because probably we are not aware about the composition of the continent and we speak a whole lot of languages. I personally speak like four languages. So English is not my first language. It's like the second or third by second or third language. So sometimes a lot of the communities make the mistake of assuming what works in the US or EU will also work here. During my talk, I mentioned that, okay, my internet connectivity is one gigabit per second. That is a luxury even for companies back in Nigeria, which is my home country, not to talk of individuals. So and one of the mistakes that most organizations make is they focus on numbers instead of the impacts they are going to make. One of the beautiful things that the CNCF has been doing is focusing on mentorship instead of events. When you focus on events, okay, you bring people to an event or you host an online event, you get all the numbers, by the end of the day, what impact, if you hosted the event, you've forgotten about it, what impact have you made? But with mentorship, I think from the experience we had at KCD Africa, we're able to see awesome people. I think one of your colleagues at Weaveworks, Sam Tochi, she was formerly an intern from Nigeria, who started contributing to the Kubernetes project and now she works as a developer experience engineer at Weaveworks. There's a lot of other success stories like that, that when we focus on the right thing and we listen to people within the community, understand them, we'll be able to bring in more of these initiatives that will have meaningful impact instead of just PR and numbers. So I think when companies focus more on impacts that they can give to countries in South America or Africa, we'll be able to grow more as a community instead of just focusing on, we want to create, we are following the BLM movement, we want to create some initiatives, we want to look good and do diversity just for the sake of diversity instead of actually growing the community by making an impact. Thank you so much for sharing. Yeah, I think that's the phenomenal input and phenomenal contribution, Abubakar. And I think you're totally right. And one of the things that Sergio and I, for example, talk a lot about Latin America is how there is this huge amount of latent talent that is hidden in plain sight. And unless there's initiatives that, so if you cannot, the numbers are there but sometimes you cannot see them just because they're hiding behind kind of like a layer of lack of awareness, right? So if we all as a community and as enterprise and organizations enable initiatives that allow us to put a spotlight across all these different underrepresented communities, we're going to just make the pie larger. It's going to, we're going to identify, there's huge amounts of talented passion that people out there that we've been neglecting. And I think that's part of what we're supposed to do, right, part of our job. And one thing I appreciate about the virtual KubeCon is, yes, we want to be able to see ourselves and meet ourselves, but virtual has been able to help KubeCon get more speakers from a very diverse environment and more people are able to join who might not be able to travel. I was saying earlier that, okay, I'm based in Nigeria, I'm from Nigeria, currently based in the Netherlands. It is easier for me to travel to Nigeria than for someone in Nigeria to travel to the Netherlands and it's even more cheaper. The same route, but me going down there is way cheaper than someone there coming up here. And even traveling within Africa is extremely difficult. So that's why virtual events like this go a long way in bringing more people to the community. And also, even when we want to go back to physical, doing something like hybrid, because it's not everyone that would be able to travel. Now, a lot of people, if we look at the numbers of KubeCon, definitely there has been much more participants than when we had physical events, which goes to tell us that we can do more of diversity by making sure that a lot more people are able to access these events, even when we go physical. Totally agree, yes. Definitely. Now, a lot of times I mean the talks, they have great for knowledge sharing, but what's really the magic that's going on behind the scenes is everybody connecting and people being able to get involved and contribute and have this first access point, this first access experience, right? And know actually what's going on within the community and how they can get involved and access similar opportunities, right? So I think it's a thank you for so much for highlighting it again, right? Thank you. So I think Jason has to drop off now, and we have two new speakers joining. You are welcome to stay if you want to. And yeah, let's invite our new speakers. What do you say? See you folks. Thanks for having me. Bye-bye. Thank you. Bye. Am I live? Yes, you are. You caught me off guard. Oh, we forgot to tell you. We promised, Kunal. We would tell him once we drop him in. And we forgot. Welcome, Tiffany. Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us. You want to introduce yourself? Work quick? Like, well, not so quick. Sure, I can go first. I am Kunal, and I'm a junior from India. I've been contributing to open source since my freshman year. This is actually my fourth KubeCon. My first one was in San Diego in 2019. Best time of my life. Had a lot of fun, made a lot of amazing people. It was great. After that, all the virtual ones. So yeah, I mean, super excited to be here and just love how inclusive the community is. Currently, I'm a developer advocacy intern at Civo, same place, an IS work site. So, hi, co-worker. Other than that, I'm a CNC ambassador most recently, and I am in the Kubernetes release team. So looking forward to that. Awesome. Thank you for sharing. Hi, everyone. Oh, my gosh, Kunal. It's good to be on the same platform for once, because I've been watching some of your content that you've been just producing and giving out to the community. And it's been really awesome. Like all of you all contribute to the ecosystem, and I'm super excited to be here with you all as well. My name is Tiffany Jockja. I'm a technical evangelist at Harness. It's a startup that does CI CD, and we talk about simplifying and scaling software delivery. So I've been in this space for a good while now. Before working at Harness, I was a consultant at Red Hat. So also in the open source community, got to go to KubeCon and whatnot as well. And yeah, it's just been really great to see you all and hear conversations. Love to expand on certain things that have been going on in KubeCon this year. Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us again. Tiffany was actually one of the first people I followed in the cloud-native ecosystem, and I just saw your treats. And it's really great to be on the same live stream now. Awesome. Oh, my gosh, I know it is. It feels full circle, you know? And also seeing your work in the space, too. I noticed that you had just started and you weren't afraid to say that, too. And I think it's just so amazing to see the community surround all of your projects and even welcome you into this space. I think from the perspective of someone who's been in here longer, I'd be scared to put myself out there in that way and say, like, hey, I'm new here, but it's super cool to see. You're doing that, Anais, you're doing that, and saying that. And there's so much of a culture around it now and being okay with saying, hey, I'm new here, but we can learn together, right? Yeah, yeah. It's definitely, it's great to normalize that and say, hey, there are lots of people who are just learning about this joining KubeCon, wanting to get involved. Utilize that, right? That's the strength of the community. So many new people joining and actually contributing, getting involved. And yeah, showing their bits and what they are maybe confused about and what they're really excited about. Yeah, there was this talk yesterday. There was this talk yesterday on your path to non-code contributions. Or there was this line that I really liked by Matt. He said being a beginner is one of the best things that can happen because talking about improving documentation, right? So people who are experienced, they go too much into documentation and forget about it, like what it's like to look at it from a beginner's point of view. So if a beginner is contributing to a particular documentation, they would be able to provide their feedback, like, okay, I'm a beginner. What helps me, for example? Say, I mean, it's not like nothing to feel bad about. Everyone was a beginner once. You learn from others. And this is like, this is thing, imposter syndrome. So instead of thinking like, I don't know anything, you can think something like, I know something else. They know something else. And instead of comparing yourself with anyone, you should get motivated by them, learn from them because these people are the seniors in the ecosystem. And they're always, as everyone knows, CNCF and the whole cloud-native ecosystem is very welcoming to newcomers. So lots of learning opportunities, especially for KubeCon, a lot of students joining this year. So that's super great. Yeah, just hallway tracks, for example. Great for asking questions. Awesome. Yeah, definitely. Also, just Sergio who just was with us, he mentioned that he didn't know why he should be the one giving a certain talk. But ultimately, he's the one who can, he's the only one who can provide his perspective and knowledge on a topic, the way that he does, right? Nobody else who's studying his topic would be at any all, like at all be able to talk about it the way he does, right? And that's so valuable. And I think a lot of times people are forgetting about it. Yeah, did you have a chance to watch any talks today? Yeah, I did. I don't know. I've just been so into security and compliance and governance that the majority of my talks are actually our back-based. And there was a really great our back session on I can our back and so can you. So I watched that one. And also backtrack and say, like that's a really good point that you brought up, Kunal, about coming in with the right mindset that someone who doesn't have maybe all the contacts that they're coming in with fresh eyes, like it's a fresh pair of eyes. And I think that's so important, especially for a lot of the CNCF ecosystem, where we see so many new sandbox projects. Like, I mean, I look through the agenda and a good chunk of the time, like a good chunk of the days consisted of office hours for new projects. And so a lot of the success of the CNCF, it wouldn't happen without the community. Like it wouldn't be where it is today if we had people who just knew how to do everything and provide insights into, well, how can we make this experience better? How can we make the learning curve shorter for a lot of these projects? And so I think it's so great too that there's community days for specific projects. There's office hours for specific projects. There's sessions on how you can contribute, how you can be a part of this community. So I think just from my perspective, the general breakdown of the sessions and the tracks flowed really well this year. Yeah, I can totally second that. And it's really important. It was one session yesterday, I think, about contributing when you're not a coder, when you're not doing development work. And it's really important to remember. You don't have to be a coder at all or you're amazing at it to be able to contribute. There are so many different aspects to contribute to this space. I also, I want to change this direction of the conversation a bit. I think, Tiffany, you do the study right now. Yeah, yeah, I'm actually finishing up my graduate program at Georgia Tech in computer science. Awesome. And it's been three years we're going on three and a half years now. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, I think there are many people who are actually who are working and studying in the space and contributing. And also, Kunal is doing amazing work with the CNCF on bringing students, getting students involved. So I would love to hear more about that and maybe take the conversation from there. Oh, yeah, yeah. I think Kunal, you can start off as well. No, you can go ahead and follow up. I'll say that I used this graduate program really to focus in on areas that I didn't get a chance to in my undergraduate program. So I was born and raised in Maryland. I went to the University of Maryland. Shout out to Terps if you're based in the U.S. and know about the University of Maryland. I studied computer engineering. So a lot of it was systems-based, embedded engineering, C++, the entire shipping there. And I didn't get to necessarily take the classes that I wanted around data science, MLOps, machine learning, AI. So I think it's interesting to see a lot of the crossover between enterprise and academia, especially in that space, especially in a lot of the emerging technologies. I mean, we see in some areas that academia supporting a lot of what we need to grow, take, for example, the Dora metrics in DevOps. We didn't have that long-term study. If we didn't have a long-term study like that that was based in academics, based in research, we wouldn't know as much as we do now. And so I think it's really important to be able to say, like, how are we working together? And I'd love to hear your perspective on it as well, Kunal. Yeah, most definitely. And the things you mentioned, there was a talk on it today as well about how Cortex went from a vendor project to a more community-focused project by Gotham, I believe, from Gafana. And they also mentioned about how it's really important to be accessible and making your projects simpler to run, for example. So that's a very good point. And when we're talking about getting more people involved in the ecosystem, then first things first, for example, one thing a project cannot get enough of is good documentation. And when you're first starting with a project and it does not have good documentation, it's very difficult to get involved. Similarly, if setting up that project is a little bit difficult and tedious. So for example, in Cortex talk, Gotham mentioned, like, there were so many external dependencies they had to run. And so many, it was basically difficult, not simple to run. And that's what they are currently looking on. And that talk was really inspiring for me. Speaking specifically for students, CNCF is one of the most welcoming communities. And Anayas also mentioned, regarding the talk, there was yesterday about non-code contributions. There was a line that I was really like, which is contributing to open source is called learning in public. Because we learn from our mistakes and we learn together. And Anayas is also appreciating that thing, learning in public thing, which I really appreciate. So yeah, for students, I believe getting started is the most important part. And that's also the part they struggle with the most, not just students, but anyone who is new to open source and cloud-native ecosystem. Because they feel like over end and where to start actually. Because if you see that picture of the CNCF landscape project, it's like so big. And when I first saw that, I was like, what is that? It looks like mini houses in the big map. But yeah. It's amazing. The important thing is finding what you're passionate about. And even if you're not a hardcore coder and stuff like that, you can still contribute. And these particular contributions do have a lot of value. So it's not like if you are not making code contributions, it's not valuable. Like Kat mentioned it in the same talk yesterday. So yeah, I mean, it's a great way to get started. And specifically, not just for students, but anyone who is new to CNCF, there were a few talks regarding that as well. They're like LFX mentorship programs. There's like Shadows program, this KubeCon. Currently, this is the one we are attending. And the best part I love about KubeCons is like the hallway tracks. We were like interacting live with people on Zoom. Dims was there. Pop was there. And a lot of students are in today. They were even asking questions like, what is KubeNATIS? What is CNCF? What is CloudNATIVE? And no one was like, hey, that's not a valid question. We had like a solid discussion on that for 30 minutes. So that's what I love about the community. That's amazing. Yeah, definitely. We had just a chat question on where do you get started? So you just touched upon it, tried to get involved, tried to start conversations, asked those questions. Like there's really no question that should not be asked because it's bringing back up the awareness of like, hey, actually there are many people, most people are just starting to learn about all of that. So what are some of the other advice that you would give students who are joining right now or want to get involved? I'd love to just capture all of the points that you can all you had mentioned. And this goes back to anyone who is maybe struggling with burnout, especially if you're a student and you know, you have to juggle so many things. Like being a student is hard. And I didn't realize it until I got out of school and then I was like, you know, working and then I came back and I was like, wow, I really feel like crap. Like that's not it. And I'm scrolling on red, I was scrolling on red yesterday. And there was like all these people talking about, it was under CS undergrad or something like that or CS students or something. I forgot what the subreddit's called, but there was some people who were saying like, hey, I feel crap. Like doing this is crappy. Like being in school, having to juggle so many life responsibilities at the same time, it's crazy. And honestly, like I remember being in school and just feeling like, well, I don't know what I want to do outside of my classes. And I think some really good advice that I got beforehand was something called the do something principle. And it really speaks to some of the things that you all had mentioned. And it's just this idea that if you do something, anything out there and you put it out there, that it'll inspire yourself and give you motivation to continue the cycle. So you can look it up. It's called the do something principle. It's comprised of three parts, right? It's action, inspiration and motivation. And these three kind of pieces feed into each other. And so it's just a really good way to get out of a rut. Just do something, anything, even if it's just going outside and like you're really stressed out, sure. Maybe while you're on that walk, you can type something on your social media. You can start a page or start a YouTube channel, like the least registered for a YouTube account. It's small stuff like that, but it'll get you excited about what it is that you're trying to do. And for me, who's very like, I'm introverted, so I like to think about all of my thoughts before I do anything. But then that often puts you in this kind of silo where you're just consistently going through all your thoughts and no one understands exactly what you're thinking about until you go and do it. And even you don't understand everything and how things will unfold until you start doing something. So that's just something that I would give to myself as advice if I could go back like three, four, five years. I think that's really amazing advice and it's really applicable to the space. Like when you're exactly like I mentioned, when you see this landscape, you're like, oh my God, what am I getting myself into, right? But then it's like really just start small. Start with one thing, like as small as possible even, right? Break it down and then start there and this will motivate you further to get further involved. And then along the way, sharing the knowledge publicly, you might meet people in the hallway tracks to then get you further excited to learn more, right? So it's like this kind of like the snowball rolling effect. So it's not about nobody expects anybody to know this entire landscape from day one, right? That would be crazy, yeah. I would love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah. Oh, you're still here. No, do you want to add something, Leah? My connection is really bad. So that's the reason I've been quiet. Sorry about that. So I think another important aspect is to leverage a community, like I don't know, a lot of people know about all the different community groups that are available. And if you go to community.cncf.io, there's local community groups all over the place. So find what's local to you and participate, you know, go to talks, listen to people talk, and that gives you local connections within your region and close to you that can also serve as a point of contact, you know, as a means to support. You're getting your entry point. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I really like this comment. Nobody knows the entire landscape. Big fan of iron cold water. So yeah, that's true. When I was in like in San Diego, there was this contributor summit over there. Also, they mentioned like, you know, no, no, see, like there might be like one or two people, but in general, like the entire ecosystem is very, very big. And also, yeah, there's one more good point over here that beginner questions are also a great way for people to, people who have been around for a while to learn because when you are explaining something to someone, your knowledge is also enhanced. Richard Feynman technique. So that's a great way like to learn as well to teach others. Oh yeah, that's that's great. And yeah, I really liked like the other point you made about, you know, the the the the learn go technique thing. So the problem that I see many students face has been that they are stuck in the tutorial hell. So they're like, let me first, you know, learn this entire thing, then I'll contribute. Or let me first, you know, spend this much time on this playlist or something, then I'll contribute. So what happens is in my universities and colleges, at least like months and months go by and they're like, hey, I'm learning for the past few months, but I'm not getting anything out of it. So I'm like, you're not getting anything out of it because you're not applying whatever you're learning. So you can do that in many ways. You can contribute to open source. You can start a YouTube channel to each others, you know, and you can make projects. You can write a blog or article or something like that, but just apply whatever you're learning because then you will get some motivation as well. Like, you know, I'm doing something. I'm actually applying whatever time learning. That's just some good points. Yeah. Awesome. Hey, everybody, I need to drop because I'm having really, really bad connection problems. So I'm having a hard time hearing our fantastic panel here. So Anais, I'll let you... I will take over. Thank you for joining. You're awesome. Thank you all. I hope you're having a great time and we'll keep seeing each other. Bye. Thank you, bye-bye. Awesome. Yeah. Just quickly. I didn't learn on the go as like the go lang. All good. It's probably what time is it where you are? It's a bit late, right? 9 p.m. something. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. My brain wouldn't function probably at that time. Yeah. No, it's definitely... When I was studying like, studying full-time for two years and then I dropped out and started an online degree while I started to work a few years ago. And I remember like, at that time when I was studying full-time, I didn't know what I could do, right? And now I'm seeing all those initiatives that are available for students. And I'm just looking and I'm like, wow, I would love to have the time now to do them, right? Like, know that I learned about them, but I wish more students would know about them and take advantage of all those... Like, there are many opportunities that students can get involved right now. Also, like, especially within the CNCF. So I think that's, yeah, that's great. And also your initiative. A special thing is coming for the students by CNCF. So stay tuned. We'll share about it later on. Yeah. Awesome. Follow Kunai if you want to stay up to date with that. And CNCF. The bill will probably, like, we'll also share in CNCF account. So, yeah, follow the CNCF Twitter handle as well. Or there are, like, some nice opportunities coming on for you. And by the way, like, also Linux Foundation internships for CNCF, they are closing on 17th. In case you're interested, you can check that out as well. Great shout out. And also throughout the year, I think there are multiple mentorship programs, also within projects. Speaking of projects, what are your favorite projects? How do you get involved with new projects? We just mentioned you can pick any of those projects on a landscape. How do you get started with any of those projects? Yeah, definitely you can go ahead. Yeah. As someone who's used many of the projects, you really didn't have to. It's interesting. It's always interesting. Every project has, like, a repository, at least the ones that are in the CNCF, right? If you're a CNCF project, that's usually the top place to start for me as well. And so when I was a consultant, I used to have to run multiple solutions and we'd build matrices that would do to feature comparisons, depending on what the client wanted. And so it was really important to go into there, have all of the resources available, and also just reach out to find out who's contributing. That's the biggest thing for me. Nowadays, if I can't get started within the first one to two hours, like it's just not working, right? If I run into issues, I immediately pull up like who's a contributor? Who's been working on this the most? Who can I reach out to and just ask them? There are so many times when someone's just been really, really receptive to answering questions. And there's nothing wrong with you going into the Slack channel or joining their community and being like, hey, I'm having a hard time. This is where I'm at. This is what I've tried. Here's my environment. As long as you put in all of that information, so they have enough context, it's a great way to get started. Yeah, nowadays, if there's something wrong that I don't understand and I'm trying this project for whatever reason, I have the confidence to know that it might not just be me, especially at this rate. It's at this kind of level. We're just trying to make these products and projects as usable as possible. And that's the goal, right? It's not just that we're expanding this landscape and that we're expanding what it means to do cloud-native computing. We're also simplifying it. I think that's why there's so many solutions out here now. Earlier, I joined a session on when Prometheus can't take the load. And they're going over some of the solutions that are out there now that will help you do high availability or cross-cluster, basically supporting monitoring through that. And it's just solutions like that that are in the space. And you need a lot of context to be able to understand, well, why do I even need a solution like that? And so if you don't get that initially, you're not going to be able to. If it's not on those pages, if there's not someone talking to you, you're not going to be able to get that context. It just doesn't exist. And so that's why I think it's so important to reach out. Yeah, most definitely. And speaking of reaching out, and it was a very good talk, like the Prometheus one by Liron. I really like the structure. Like they first talked about the limitations and all the M3s and Thanos and Cortex and everything. So it was a very... I really loved that talk. But speaking of asking questions, I believe it's really important to ask questions in public. And that's why you have the community calls of many projects. If projects don't have community calls, you should. Like monthly community call or something. It's like a great way to like, even at least a month, it's a great way for people to just join in, ask questions and learn. And the reason is like asking good questions is also a skill when you're first starting out. Because most of the time I get questions like, hi, that's it, nothing else, just a hi. And I'm like, because if you're talking about open source contributions, you're going to be probably working with people across various time zones, right? So if you send a hi, that person is going to send a hi again after let's say 12 hours or something. And then 12 hours or later, you will see that and you will be like, hey, I had a question. And then they'll be like, okay, sure. Now 24 hours and a day and two have gone by and your query is still not resolved. That's why like asking good questions is very, very important. And why do I say ask questions in public? Because it's going to help you only because first people will see that you're engaging and your question will be answered quickly because more people will see it. So more people will be able to answer because not everyone checks their DMs regularly, right? But in group, many people would be able to provide their inputs. So yeah, communication is key for when starting with a new project. Yeah, a lot of times if you just post it in public and it's far more likely that the person who will spend hours helping you will see it, right? It's far less likely if you reach it directly to people that they will be able and be in a position where they can spend hours helping you. But most of the time, it's like, I'm always scared of like, oh, what's the worst thing that can happen? But it's far more likely that people will take the time and help you and help you figure things out. And a lot of times they will have to figure it out with you ultimately. So there's nothing wrong in asking it. Now if we have like about four minutes, five minutes left, is there anything else you would like to share about today, anything that's gotten you excited for the next KubeCon? Anything you would like to share with people and like as a take this advice or information or check this out? That's really helped me. No? Okay, I can go. If you are joining it for the first time, I'm sure you might have received like a lot of nice insights from the conference. So do share it about it with your friends as well because I know like the North America one is definitely like there is going to be an option, I believe for a virtual platform as well for people who cannot be at in there in person, sort of like a hybrid event. So I believe this is great because not everyone can attend the in-person events. And so yeah, just share about it. Also these talks will be like recorded so you can watch it later on. But yeah, don't be afraid to like get involved and just network with people. Just communication is key. Like I can see someone in the comments as well. So yeah, just keep to ask questions and see where you can help out and forget about like the landscape. People even feel overwhelmed when looking at the code base of a particular project. So that's also fine. You don't have to like know each and every single. I got a question. Like, hey, I do. I understand that each and every single file of this project as a beginner. I'm like, no, as a beginner, you don't have to. It's not a question. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's a valid question. But these like projects are divided into like modules and packages, right? So you can like look at one particular one. Good first issues existing over there for a reason. If you're not able to find a good first issue, you can just put it on the mailing list like, hey, I'm a beginner. Can you suggest me some issues I can get started with or something? Documentation, for example, you can start with that. But yeah, even fixing typos is a valid contribution. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'll circle back on, you know, to do something principal that I shared with you all as well. Like, I think it's just take advantage of all the resources that are out there. You know, I used to say like freeze for me. And I think that applies for this, you know, there's so many resources within the CNCF for like learning, for building your network, for whatever it is, whatever your goal happens to be. So feel free to take advantage of those things. And I think this year has just been really great with the one on one track as well. Like I was watching over some of the sessions in that track and just to, you know, figure out, well, what's new here? What's going on? And even as someone who's not a one-on-one person, like I, you know, I was a senior consultant, senior DevOps engineer, like I am still learning a lot of things and I think it's really awesome to be able to do it that way. And so don't feel bad about, you know, even things being labeled as beginner friendly or one-on-one. Like you'll be able, you just know that those, those things are well produced or well thought out because someone's geared it into this format where it's really simplified and, you know, you can take it and run with it. So do exactly that, right? And I think that's a really great message from the both of you as well, like very inspiring to be able to follow your work and see that as well. So that's, that's incredible for me. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing both and joining here. And everybody else who's watching, thank you so much for joining us for this week, Al. Just one last, last thing. Please. Yeah, check out, check out this cncf slash mentoring repository on GitHub. It has like a lot of initiatives for people who are starting out like Google Son of Code, Outreach, e-season of docs, Linux, LFX. And there's one more for research and something which recently they started. So yeah, it's very good. That's going to be really helpful. So cncf slash mentoring, yeah? Mentoring, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Awesome. On GitHub, check it out and get involved and message people. Completely blend about it. Just get in touch and say, hey, I need help of this because there's so many amazing people who want to help. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you everybody for joining. This was really amazing and really insightful. Thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah. Yeah, this was great. Awesome. Thanks everyone for joining. I see 200 something people. That's really awesome. Good start.