 actually sorry I just I never I'm never very good at like the nuts and bolts are like the here's the like someone said you can be an emcee at like an event and like I don't do emcee very things very well and they said what are you kidding you always get up and speak I'm like yeah because I know what I'm gonna say emcees are like okay so please the bathrooms are to the right no they're to the left I'm sorry like I just get so flustered so I apologize for that there's gonna be microphones right there and it's gonna last about 45 minutes and then there's roughly gonna be anywhere between 30 and 45 minutes worth of questions if you have them and if they're not then we get to have a little break which is that's great too and just get to hang out um the whole the whole concept of this this this time together is and also sorry another pause I'm not very good at it I just said as I just said two little warnings one I have a tendency to speak really quickly I will fight that tendency as as with everything I've got but I'm really just that's I that's my default my default speed is times two so I'm really sorry I want to fight it so that it's more clear secondly is thank you for being here because I mean because you could have gone anywhere I but no you guys I'm thinking you because there's actually I wanted to be at all the other talks too so but but thank you because I know that probably you're here the reason you're here is because this matters to you and what we're gonna be talking about today of course is is as it says in the description it's the third way and as I said last night where that came from where that concept that idea that thought that title even came from is from again personally in my own life is someone as I said that I love very very much who said this is who I am I'm a gay man and your two options are this you either accept and endorse celebrate every decision I make with this regard or that means you hate me and and then it was kind of this like okay I guess I said last night are those are only two options because I would rather have a real relationship with you I'd rather because think about this if we stop I think when it comes to this topic again it's not just a topic but when it comes to this realm of human relationships many times oftentimes we can lose our common sense we forget what common sense is and so if by the end of this presentation you're like well all that was just common sense then I did my job because this should be stuff that we already kind of automatically know but for some reason because it has to do with a really highly charged and really sensitive area where we want to be compassionate people we want to be good people we don't want to do the wrong thing that sometimes we just forget like oh that's just common sense that you mean just treat people like people yes that's that so that was the spoiler all I'm gonna say is treat people like people so if you now want to go to the other talk like you you have an out now because they're gonna say more profound things in some of the other sessions but that's that's what it's going to be I'm gonna break it down into like six or seven bees I want to say be attitudes but there's that's already taken but it comes down to a real relationship real relationships with real people involve real conflict real relationships with real people involve real conflict that you get to have your opinion and I get to have my opinion that you get to choose to live your life how you want to live your life and I get to choose to endorse it or not and we still get to be in relationship with each other and this is one of those things again sometimes we just forget that that's true as my dad said as a family member had said I just want you to accept me we're gonna talk about acceptance a little bit today and my dad had said he said because I know some of you are our parents you're selling your daughter brother or sister someone in your life maybe yourself experience same-sex attraction that my dad had said well no parent no parent accepts everything their child does he says well some parents do but no good parent does that no good parent accepts everything their child chooses no parent endorses everything that their child chooses because not everything a child chooses whether they're little or old is good for them and that's our starting point this is the question is kind of like this is there room to say I don't agree with every I don't agree with every one of your decisions but I want to be in your life because as Catholic Christians that's our call we don't have to agree with every decision someone makes but I want to be in your life why because I want to convert you well kind of but not really that's the initial point is that the initial point is I actually I just care about you I like you I I want to be in your life I want you in my life is it one of your rules that I have to accept you or else you reject me so many one of the questions that has to come up on to the table but that's one of the B things I want to jump ahead here's where I want to start where I want to start is this it's from the letter of James chapter 1 says this verse 26 if anyone thinks they're religious but does not bridle their tongue and deceives his heart his religion is vain if anyone thinks they're religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart his religion is vain and I bring that up because of this because our words are really important and yet sometimes we think well no I mean my here's the thing we're gonna be talking about people who experience same-sex attraction and sometimes we can categorize that into like well those people who experience it here we are at a Catholic conference but there's no people those people experience that traction let's talk about those people who experience same-sex attraction and and our conversation becomes like well there's us here and then there's them out there there's us here and we're kind of like really on fire with the faith and we're kind of living our lives right and then there's those people out there and we really want to talk about them how can we be good people to them and how can we love them and how can we be in their lives and we can make it into this us and them kind of situation if we do that if we make this whole conversation about them then we're completely doing it wrong because this is not an us and them issue there's only us there's only us in one of the points of division we have is we have this sense of like well no there's those special sins out there those special problems out there that know I mean really I mean think about it like yes of course everyone's broken fine father whatever but what about but this is like a really big deal okay yes I don't deny that that's why I wanted to start with James if anyone does not bridle their tongue but deceives their heart your religion is in vain that means for all of you who struggle with gossip and you call it venting I'm just I'm just sharing I'm just sharing your religion is vain your faith is worthless and anyone who struck who goes back to complaining you complain a lot you don't bridle your tongue with it your religion is worthless the person always has to be grumpy and say well everything they're thinking your religion is worthless just want to let you know because this whole thing is like not well there's a special sins are like really really bad that make kind of like a really hard to live a Christian life but I only I guess I gossip a little bit well the religion is worthless well done this is how serious the word is and that's what I'm saying like this is not well yeah but my sins are special my sins are not as bad my guess is that at least half of you struggle with gossip in a serious way my guess is the I know because I was talking to Judy earlier and she said the other part is this is that other half of the struggles with complaining none of us hardly any of us bridle our tongues we say whatever we want to say say whatever we're feeling we say our opinions without even stopping to ask if those opinions are true we even say I'm gonna tell the truth I don't care you know you just need to hear it you just need to hear it no bridle your tongue you know what that means means like a horse and bridle got to put the bridle on there and like give it some direction I mean no I just need to say the truth you know what I just need I just need to tell him I just need to tell him here's the thing I'm gonna go up I'm gonna meet with them and I'm just gonna tell him I'm gonna tell him where they're wrong the religion is vain and this is that's one of the things that's what this is one of the major reasons why it's not us and them we are all in the same boat because every single one of us has some kind of besetting thing in our lives and then I remember reading this but also was my personal experience this one young man he said father Mike I want to talk with you about this big thing and and so we did and he said well I'm gay and so okay our response was well because he thought it was he was gonna devastate me he thought it was me like you know he's not gonna be able to handle this and I was like it means a big deal I appreciated I was honored that he shared this with me but he thought that it would devastate me my main thing was like well dude if it wasn't this it'd be something else if this wasn't in your struggle it would be something else and I know a minute at this particular man I know he struggles he experiences anxiety experiences depression experiences out some of these other areas of his life of woundedness or brokenness and again so this is another piece and I thank you for letting me in on that I thank you for sharing that with me wasn't this be something else I don't know how many times in the confessional well you know someone will come in and those still they'll confess some kind of struggle with some kind of sexual sin and it's like oh I'm so I mean yeah if it wasn't this it'd be something else I know people who have like they've been like completely delivered from some kind of major best-setting sin that this just like hammered them again and again their whole life and then they you know they came to the Lord and like they said you know what I'm gonna do I'm gonna stop that thing they put it off to the side and then no it doesn't even touch them doesn't affect them doesn't even enter into their like daily consciousness but now they struggle with pride because you can't just put it off to the side and like just stop doing the thing you're doing like what's wrong with you okay now so now your new best-setting sin is worse than the first one so well done I'm really proud of you because here's the thing I get this come down to the main thing is this it's no we're not gonna as I'm going to be discussing it is not about them it's never it can never be and if ever is about them then we're making the wrong words and I need to bridle my mouth because this conversation is all about us and for far far far too long I think even this morning's conversation was a little bit almost I felt so badly at the end because I was like I've we've been talking so much about them and those people who want to advance this position and those people experience and that's just that's just the wrong way to do it I think it's the wrong way to do it I liked I appreciated the conversation this morning but to me it just almost I felt like I did the wrong way because never about us never about them it's about us so how do we have the conversation not just the conversation because it's because talk is nice but walking is more important so how do we walk as it says in the title how do we walk with our brothers and sisters those who belong part of us part of our families part of our friendship part of the church who experience same-sex attraction regardless of whether they're acting out or not number one the first be is be second be second number two no that's not number two that that's number one is number two right just kidding you guys number one is be second here's what I mean when we're I think sorry when I say we are probably talking about me so you know how we are when we talk with people how jerky we are right like no what I want to do when I'm talking with someone and I know the answer is I don't need to hear you anymore because no no I know your question already so I'm just gonna give you my answer I knew your question is probably why blah blah blah blah so I hear it here's my answer and so what I'm doing is I'm first I'm gonna put myself first and yet we probably those of you who are good at convert at good at relationships you're good at communication you know no no no don't be first be second and they said this the idea of truth is I need to listen to you if I'm gonna have anything to say to you for a number of reasons but first one is this I come upon someone and they say I have a question about blank whatever blank is I say oh here let me tell you all that I know about blank and I can be completely off the target as an thought it would have is this I live in Duluth Minnesota and imagine someone called me up and said brother Mike how do I get to Minneapolis St. Paul how do I get to St. Paul oh easy yeah I mean just drive south on 21st Avenue and then you take a right on to 35 you're going south and then you take another left and then drive about 12 miles and then take another right and then you drive about 112 more miles and then you take a left Wendy after that and they're like okay I'm currently in Fargo okay so what I need to do is I'm giving them my direction so here's how I would get from where I am to St. Paul I don't know where you are until you tell me where you are and so if I'm gonna give anyone any kind of guidance any kind of feedback any kind of direction where are you right now and I can't know that unless I'm willing to listen to them I need to be second I can't be first I need to be second so again when it comes to listening be second when it comes to walking be second because we need to listen we need to listen because I don't know where they are another reason I need to listen is because I don't know what they care about I'm not not only do I not know where you are I don't know what you care about someone can I mean you've probably had this when it comes to apologetics someone says so what's up with this belief in purgatory you're like oh no no it's okay it's because it's a scripture and they're like I don't care about scripture I just want to know do I have to go there or I just want to know how painful is it you know I just I need to know what they care about I need to listen I when I need to be second because I need to listen but another thing is this it's just it's respectful when you're when I'm not first but I'm gonna be second I'm gonna say and I need to listen to you what I'm trying to communicate is this you have something to teach me I have something to learn from you particularly if like no no I've read all these books about this and this and I know why this is wrong why this is good and why this is supposed to be the best thing in the world we can jump down to that as opposed to you know what you have something to teach me I think one of the one of the things I've heard so many times from our brothers and sisters who experience sex attraction is after I give a whole presentation well yeah but do you know anyone who's gay well yeah okay but have you ever really talked with someone they've been in their lives yes are you willing in the next are you willing to be in my life are you willing to let me teach you something yeah so if I'm gonna be second that means that means I have something to learn from you I have something to learn from you you can teach me something and if we have the attitude of be first then we were wrong we're just we're just wrong so I need to be second I need to listen I need to have the attitude I can learn something from you how did how far this goes a couple weeks ago I was giving a talk in Halifax Nova Scotia at a Steubenville conference and I gave a talk on this topic but it was on just here's the church's teaching with this regard after the talk two young women came up to me and they talked about they said expressed how they experience feelings of transgender feelings about themselves and sit down and will tell me don't what do you mean you feel like you're not really a girl what do you mean you feel like you're asexual what do you mean you feel like you're a boy these two different girls and not like what do you mean you feel like a boy it's like oh okay well just tell me more you have something to teach me I don't know what that is to feel like that I know it is to feel like a boy I don't know what it is to have a woman's body but to feel not like a woman so tell me your experience not just because I need to know so I can give you an answer but I need to know I want to know because you have something to teach me that I don't know but if I'm gonna be first then I can't be taught be second to make sense it was number one be number one be second number two be close be close there's a buddy of mine is named any Hickman and any he works some of the Steubenville stuff any is an awesome guy he lives down in Texas and he has this this thing he calls a ministry he calls love your neighbor love your neighbor ministries and he his theory is this he says I believe that when Jesus said love your neighbor he actually meant it he meant like love the person who lives next door to you love your actual neighbor we're like oh no love your neighbor that means I don't have to love anybody I mean this kind of tolerate people out there like oh you're my neighbor hate neighbor I won't get in your way I'm American you know like because that's what we sometimes think of as freedom is like you have the freedom to do what you want you want to do I'm not gonna get in your way but love your neighbor is actually love your neighbor if my neighbor is in distress then it's my job to go take care of my literal neighbor and so there's a thing called the 10-foot rule and the 10-foot rule is I can only really love someone within 10 feet of them I can only really love someone if I'm actually in their life so I always get the question father can I go to my you know my lesbian aunts wedding because I feel like if I don't go here's the thing because I felt I don't go that I'll do she'll feel like I'm rejecting her feel like if I don't go there'll be all these bad feelings I feel like if I don't go I need to say I need to I want to let her know that she's still in my life I want to let her know that I want to be in her life and okay these are two different things you can be in her life and not go to the wedding you can go to the wedding and not be in her life two different things and the Catholic Christian is called to be in her life and not go to the wedding but I can only really love someone if I'm within 10 feet of them essentially it's a figurative 10 feet but the idea oh oh got it again I can only really love someone if I'm close to be close to them that means I care about them so it makes sense so be second be close number three be clear be clear what I mean about be clear is this I need to be crystal clear on what the church is teaching is in this regard I need to be crystal clear on what the church is teaching is in this regard and I need to be crystal clear on why the church teaches what she teaches in this regard here's why here's why I need to be clear because if I'm not clear if I'm not if I don't fully understand a number of things are gonna happen if I'm not clear I will end up being brittle where I could be flexible if I don't know really what the church teaches I make up all these rules that I bet it's probably against church teaching for X Y and Z if I don't know why the church teaches it I will end up make up all these rules in my head of like here's where I can't go here's what I can do for example when it comes to being clear why did I say why would I say that it's against our faith to attend a same-sex wedding well because of this because we believe that a wedding is not something something something people simply watch because you never watch mass you don't just go to mass and watch mass you're active participant in mass you show up at a mass you are participating in the mass if you show up at a wedding you are a not just watching the wedding you're a witness to the wedding you're participating in the wedding you're not just a passive observer we believe our kind of our theology is you're a part of that event you're not just watching you're a witness and so you're like no no I'm against it personally but I want to be there to support them so if you show up what you'd have to do I want to make it clear I'm not I'm not here to to endorse what you're doing but I want to support Judy and Jane if you really wanted to that that would mean you have to show up and then let everyone know why you're there and what you're opposed to and that's just rude that's not good manners going to everyone hi I'm here for Judy because I like her a lot but I don't endorse her wedding with Jill like no don't do that rather than here's the thing why would I not be allowed to attend a same-sex wedding because weddings you witness you're part of it actively so father can I go to the reception afterwards it's a prudential decision but there are some cases when you could say yeah I would I would do that it's a prudential decision how's it different well unless I know the difference between the wedding and the reception I remember unless I'm clear be clear remember unless I'm clear on the difference between a wedding and a wedding reception I will not be able to know the difference here but if I do know the difference then I can say there are some cases when it might be permissible to go to a wedding reception I've a brother priest and his sister had a same-sex wedding and the whole family they're very devout cat they're like we can't go to the wedding but they're like but we're gonna go to the reception because we know it's important to you we're gonna go the reception and here we are here for you because it's a big day for you you know by our absence at the wedding where we stand so we don't have to make a big deal about it now that we're here at the reception because we're just here because we love our daughter because we love our sister that's not in the same thing as endorsing and witnessing the wedding but unless I'm clear I will be brittle where I could possibly be flexible I don't know if that makes sense but it gets right it gets kind of muddy but again let's go back it's all gonna be common sense it's all gonna be common sense when it comes down to it right right here so I need to be clear I need to know the what and the why another example some of these things are just completely prudential judgments so here we are it's 4th of July a couple years ago and my family member who had recently come out of the closet I guess you want to use that phrase I recently come out and he says hey um I'm seeing someone and I want to know where can we okay we come up for 4th of July to the lake Minnesota everyone like goes everyone lives in the Twin Cities but they all want to live in the lake so it's like I've come to the lake absolutely you can can Sean come to absolutely you can because why but he's you guys are like dating yep and you're welcome to invite any of your friends to your parents place for the weekend that's no problem now the great thing is my parents have always had the rule that no matter how long you've been dating no matter where you're at in stage in relationship unless you're married you're not sleeping in the same room that was really easy for them to enforce like here's the thing it's like no you know the rules and family members like yep I know the rule and it's not it's not a surprise not being treated especially like I'm just that's the rule my parents have always had a kind of a pretty good rule about public displays of affection so yeah just there it is continuation of the rule same kind of thing this flexibility and being able to say you can come you can show up at our house with this person that you're dating and we will we'll come into the home with joy we'll come into the home with joy I first heard that by Father John Harvey Father John Harvey is the founder of courage I went to this talk when I was in seminary and someone said okay here's Ralph and here's George Ralph is my son and George is his boyfriend um he wants to come home for Thanksgiving but he'll only come home if Ralph can come with him for Thanksgiving should I say no like no these are the rules like you can come home Ralph I don't I forget which child is which my child is George his boyfriend is Ralph okay you can only go home George if Ralph doesn't and Father Harvey said never do that Father Harvey said yes of course you have rules in your home that's your home you have rules in your home they can't sleep in the same bed public space affection all these kind of things but he said this he said there's so much there's so much isolation already experienced by men and women who experience same-sex attraction so much isolation already so much if not actual at least perceived rejection that when you say yeah George you can come home only if Ralph doesn't come what you're gonna do is you're gonna be putting up building up a wall Father Harvey said he's seen it so many times in his own experience of ministering with men and women who have this experience he says at some point this whole lifestyle breaks apart at some point there's this desire I want to go back to my family and he said but if you've been building these walls you can come home only if where they're gonna go not home but if you've been having open doors and like yes you could always come home yep if Ralph's coming to no problem you could always come home there's rules of course but if you want to come home there's there's a home you have with open doors that means that experience that wound of isolation that you've experienced that wound of rejection again whether perceived or real is gonna be healed and it also creates a certain cognitive dissonance when you're clear when you're clear so here's an example same example that of the 4th of July thing is back in 2012 Minnesota had a thing called the Marriage Amendment up on the on the ballot and so everyone everyone in the world in Minnesota had these lawn signs and there was all these vote no lawn signs for don't restrict the freedom to marry so vote no and then so basically only Catholics more or less and some evangelicals had lawn signs that said vote yes vote yes to keep the traditional definition of marriage and so my parents had the vote yes signed in the front yard and it was so interesting because Sean the boyfriend will pull into the driveway and he'd say like okay I don't get it and my family members say what do you mean you don't get why do I saw I just I don't understand like your family like seems to like really love me yeah they totally do but then I see the signs in the yard I'm like you can't possibly love me no they do and there's this great cognitive dissonance of like coming to the family absolutely come into the home because there's rules we don't have to go through them every time you come visit okay by the way no smooching no whatever like coming to the home and you're completely I feel completely welcomed I feel like your family completely loves me and yet here's the lawn sign that says you don't want me to you don't think I should be able to get married to a member of the same sex yes when you're clear you can say both things and it might cause cognitive dissonance but there's a clarity there no questions come up out of that that's why we have the Q&A session so be second be close be clear be kind number four be kind one of the reasons to be kind is because we have no idea we have no idea person's story it is far far better I think so many ways to be kind than it is to say you know I just got to be honest sometimes we always have to be honest yet tell the truth but to be kind when we do it because because sometimes people are wounded in ways we didn't expect so here's a quick little story it doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about but except for being kind years ago when I was in the seminary I was in a program called CPE clinical pastoral education where you went into a hospital and they trained you as a chaplain and so there were a bunch of us there was couple Baptist couple Catholics couple Methodist couple Lutherans and a bunch of Lutherans were in Minnesota and the head person she was a Lutheran pastor and so it's all good going throughout going well throughout the whole summer we were supposed to lead a Lutheran communion service on Sundays like at least one Sunday of summer every one of us had to lead a Lutheran communion service and so my summer that was scheduled my weekend I mean that was scheduled she was gonna be gone so like oh perfect I'll just lead a service of the word I can I can do that as a Catholic seminary and I can lead a word service no big deal and then so I said hey Linda is it okay that since you'll be gone that weekend anyways I just leave the service of the word because I can't I can't be part of a non-Catholic communion service I can't like officiated a non-Catholic communion service and and it's perfect as you're not even to be there so it's it's all taking care of you don't have to worry about anything as a result of that we had a the entire team had a three-hour meeting where it was I was on the hot seat and it was like how dare you say that you will not be part of our community interfaith communion service how dare you say that you're not willing to be part of this interfaith communion service how dare you I'm like what all you even the Catholic is like I can't believe you're doing this you're like I just it's just the rule like I didn't make it up I just can't do that and going round and around and I even would say things like wait if I was Jewish would you force me to pray in the name of Jesus oh no but it's totally different how is this totally different I mean it's even like the thing of like Linda at some point did you choose to be Lutheran yes so you chose not to be Catholic yes so you already made the dividing wall like the dividing wall is existed when we showed up this summer yes but you're still mad and so finally after three hours I finally caught on and I said Linda it sounds like you're just personally offended by this she stopped you said well yeah I guess I am like oh oh okay um then I'm sorry that was it although all that she wanted in some ways was she wanted an apology because she felt hurt by this she felt personally all the all the all the logical reasons why like it's already we're already divided we showed up and we said I'm Baptist I'm Catholic I'm Lutheran we already showed up like this the fact that we're just living it out now didn't matter the matter was she was hurt by it for some reason and so to be kind with people is taking into account that sometimes we're just sometimes we hurt each other and we need to mean to and I didn't think I didn't even think I heard you doesn't matter if you're hurt then you're hurt I need to be kind that's that's one of the things I've learned again and again I mentioned this thing about whether it's actual or perceived rejection it doesn't matter in some ways because I still feel rejected whether I was actually rejected or I merely perceived being rejected in some ways for us it doesn't matter because the feeling is I don't belong here so we need again that fourth thing to be kind why um that I shared this couple times this summer with youth conferences but it was really hard to share so I'm in a sort of accent so um I was speaking with this person I loved very much and he was saying this is like a month or two months ago and we're talking about tattoos and neither of us have tattoos and he was like I say hey bud would you ever get it would you ever get a tattoo and he's like yeah I think I would I said what would you get he said I think I get a swan so I started making fun of him I'm like swan oh my gosh yeah and I get the karate kid and we have the crane technique and the swan and I like so and but then actually he started described explaining why and I started crying I'm like oh sorry I'm really he said this he said because my whole life growing up I felt different than everyone else so the whole life growing up I look around and everyone seems like a duck and all the guys like all the girls and all the girls like all the guys and I'm like I'm I'm not like that he's like my whole life I felt just like I didn't fit like there was something profoundly wrong with me like wrong with me not just wrong with the I'm attracted this way or that way but there's something like I didn't belong and then he said when he's 27 that's when he finally acknowledged out loud to me to anyone I'm gay I said in that so I experienced this like I met other people who had the same experience I'm like oh wait so you're so we're like each word like each other like I'm not I'm not the ugly duckling I'm actually just I'm a swan and I would argue of course with the ontological thing about this I would argue with that that was not the moment to argue because unless you bridle your mouth your religion is in vain I was just there to listen to this guy talk and say I've always felt like I didn't fit in I'm like I hear his brother is a priest talking about this stuff all the time he's one of our students on the college campus and I'd be preaching about same-sex attraction in a way that I think is like oh it's super compassionate and super patient and super kind and the whole time he's sitting there thinking see I don't fit see I don't belong and this is the person is someone that I when I was 12 years old and he was two I'd said it I'm gonna spend my life for him I don't know why he was two I was 12 felt like he didn't belong I would say I never rejected you doesn't matter because he felt rejected say dude you always belong that's important but in some ways it doesn't matter because he didn't feel like he belonged so that's step four that this is absolutely necessary to be kind you have no idea no idea what someone's perception of our it would come up you know I'd watch a certain movie and like ah it was good except for this one scene where they included this whole homosexual relationship thing I'm just like I just bothers me here I'm saying this now if I'm talking to someone who doesn't experience that we're just talking but now I'm talking to my little brother who experiences this he's told nobody his whole life he's like okay mental note don't tell Michael that rule number four for walking with our brothers and sisters it's just be kind because we have no idea so be second be close be clear be kind be patient be patient at apologetic conferences hopefully we reiterate reiterate this again and again and again and again is that it's never about winning an argument like dr. Sree said last night like I I said my my philosophy roommates students like you know there's no such things absolute truth was that absolutely true ha gotcha one that I win I didn't win be patient in the sense of this is that we're all on this like we're all somewhere in our relationship with the Lord all somewhere in a relationship with the truth we're all somewhere in a relationship of with with love himself and I imagine this imagine if anyone were to come along along any one of our lives and just take a snapshot of any one moment of any one of our lives you'd say if that if my whole life is that one snapshot my life was a tragedy my life was like wow what a profound sinner well that person is so far away from the Lord wow they're in great rejection of that's a great comedy that's a great room but to recognize that if I'm gonna be in this person's life I want to be close if I'm gonna put them first and I'll be second I need to be patient because people say like well so how was your brother right now where I was yet with the comes of the faith and I was yet when it comes to this and that like I'll say this I'll say that a that's his business thank you for asking them be of course I did just talk about him but be I'll say that he knows Jesus as God he knows that Jesus founded the Catholic Church he knows the Eucharist is truly the Lord of the universe occasionally text and say hey just coming back from confession then I'm going off to this church at you know we're going to mass tonight or tomorrow morning whatever same time talking he's like yeah I want to date with this guy last week patient you know why take a snapshot of my life in any given moment you guys are ball your eyes out or throw up take a snapshot the next moment you're like wow the guy should be a saint gotta be patient with each other and it's far far more important to win the heart and the trust of someone than it is to win an argument far for more important than win the trust in the heart of someone than a win an argument I can only win someone's heart for Jesus if I'm willing to be patient with them I'm willing to be second to be close to be clear to be kind and to be patient the sixth be is I'll say in just a second I know we read a lot of books when you're out of defending the faith conference we study a lot and we want to know the answer we want to be strong in our faith we want to be like confident and competent about our answers about what we know to be true and in and we know this right the church in the church subsists the fullness of truth we know this is true so we can be really strong have you ever known a Catholic who is too strong in their defense of the faith so this one do one of these everyone Catholic was too strong in their defense of the faith this one I invite you to raise it high have you ever been that Catholic that was too strong in their defense of the faith yes same here but Jesus was strong yes he was absolutely he went into that temple took out the whip of cords he went up to the Pharisees brewed of vipers whitewashed tombs outside your awesome inside your dead men's bones and full of filth he was strong and he was the truth crying out loud sorry is current tense he is the truth but we need to be more like Jesus because he was strong but he was vulnerable be vulnerable be vulnerable we have so many gifts from the church from the Lord when it comes to truth when it comes to prayer when it comes to being able to express these kinds of things we can be so strong and we can forget in our strength that we need to be vulnerable Jesus was strong but he was willing to be destroyed for love of the people who were destroying him and unless I'm willing to be destroyed for love of the people that are destroying me I should keep my mouth shut unless I'm willing to actually suffer for the people to whom I'm speaking I should keep my mouth shut unless I'm willing to actually be vulnerable to the very people that I want to win their hearts and win their trust if unless I'm willing and I if I can't do that I should keep my mouth shut and not say anything ever until I'm willing to actually be hurt and suffer for the people I'm trying to convince so yeah I need to be strong but I we have to be vulnerable able to be hurt able to be wounded and not come from a place of defensiveness so often we come from this place of defensiveness I need to hold my ground I need to hold my ground I need to hold my ground there's a line when it comes down to it in so so many ways the person's more valuable not more valuable than the truth what more valuable than the win more valuable than me winning this moment so that moment I need to be vulnerable and the last be is the first be I need to treat people like they belong not like they have to first prove themselves and then they can belong there's a whole thing I don't know if any of you are familiar with Father James Malin and the book Divine Renovation but one of the things he point points out in this book is he taught points out that for a in recent years our mentality as Catholics is if you believe and then you behave then you belong you believe what we believe awesome now you behave how we want you to behave great now you belong and what he says is if we go out into the world we have to reverse that that first we want to let you know you actually are you're part of us you belong from that will flow this belief in the Lord and from that will flow this behaving in a certain way like your heart gets conformed to him but it starts with belonging it ends with belonging there's that kind of sense it's how do we communicate for brothers and sisters that actually I'm more I'm in some ways more interested right now in you recognizing and realizing you belong that I am in knowing what you believe and how you behave that matters not saying it doesn't but I'm saying what's my priority my priority is gonna be I'm gonna be second I'm gonna be clear close be clear I'm gonna be kind I'm gonna be patient with me as well I'm vulnerable and I wanted to let you know that you belong