 Chris, how are you sir? Good Chris, how are you my friend? I'm a bit gobsmacked, so for our friends at home Chris and I arranged to do this a couple of weeks ago I didn't know that Chris would be in a rock of all places So thank you Chris for sparing time from your busy schedule Absolute pleasure, absolute pleasure Yeah, I guess we've got to ask what, other than the obvious What takes you to Iraq? So yeah, at the moment I'm working out here clearing improvised explosive devices left behind by Daesh So ISIS as it's known in the West predominantly So yeah, there's hundreds of thousands of improvised explosive devices There's tens of thousands of refugees stuck in refugee camps And they're desperate to get back into their homes and back to their farmlands So there's a whole group of us going clear these devices and get them back to their farms Get their livelihoods going again and of course get people out of these horrendous refugee camps And back into their homes and start their lives again Gosh, what area is this in? So we're predominantly in, we're in northern Iraq So my colleagues and I live in Erbil in the Kurdish region of Iraq And every day we travel across the border into federal Iraq We work in the areas around Mosul and Mahmour Many people will have heard of Mosul for sure certainly And it was completely decimated actually after the ISIS withdrawal And what we found was ISIS actually, they used Mosul as their sort of headquarters If you like, their main base, the main city in Iraq And then they went across to Syria as well So we've got all these improvised explosive devices all across northern Iraq And going all the way into Syria as well So I've got colleagues over there too across the border over there, I was there last year too with them And yeah, you know just all trying to do that bit to help out and get these people, you know, get their lives back on track really Gosh, yes We'll talk more about that, hold that thought Chris I'm just going to welcome everybody at home, thank you for joining us Before we go any further, I'm going to play your trailer Chris from our last podcast Just to give people a bit of insight if I can do this without screwing it up Here we go There were Muslims who executed Croats and Serbs The level of technical sophistication that the Iraqi insurgents achieved Superceeded 30 years of insurgency in Northern Ireland And you'll go down there with your snips and basically, you know, take your balls in your hand And on my side, there were just bullets coming through One went through the side of my helmet And it hit to the gun as, you know, shell by shell Gosh, there we go What an exciting life you've led Do you ever wonder how you're still in one piece? Do you know what? It's the bits in between that make me wonder how I'm still in one piece to be honest with you You know, working in war zones and conflict zones You know, you've got to focus on a sense of purpose then But I think, you know, like many of us, I had my wilderness years The years where I went off the rails a bit You know, I needed to go and discover myself again And certainly those years, which involved, you know, excessive amounts of alcohol And going to the very depths of my soul I'm still amazed that I managed to get out of that to be honest with you But doing this, you know, this is my calling and life's good again So, yeah Yeah, good credit to you for getting over the alcohol thing It gets a lot of people, doesn't it? It gets a lot of people, doesn't it? It takes them to their grave It does, and I think, you know, especially guys with military backgrounds as well You know, it's funny, isn't it? You know, people often say, oh yeah, you joined to fight for Queen and Country I don't think I met anyone that actually joined to fight for Queen and Country Most of them joined for escapism or, you know, to have a sense of purpose in their lives But it's amazing once you've spent some time in the forces And you realise, you know, the good that you're doing You realise the quality of the people you're with And, you know, you go to these countries where there's terrible things happening And you come back and you realise that your country's actually quite an awesome place after all You know, it's always got its faults, hasn't it? But, you know, you just want to kiss that green grass when you get home And I think that makes you more patriotic for sure I certainly didn't join for Queen and Country But I certainly stayed for Queen and Country afterwards, you know I became a much, much greater patriot And I think, you know, we have that extreme, those extreme experiences during that service And I think when guys leave, it's quite hard to replicate that Or find something as a substitute for many people And it's such an extreme change of lifestyle, isn't it, as well, you know, so I think, sadly, there's quite a few soldiers, you know, go down that route And thankfully, many bounce back, which is good, you know, obviously really important Do you think also that you know what you've had to learn to keep your head above water now To stay off the booze and to figure Sivvy Street and to pay the bills and all these kind of stuff Do you think that when we're in the military, we're kind of sheltered from all that kind of stuff? I think, it's funny, isn't it, you know, people say, oh yeah, in the military, you know, everything's done for you But as you well know, you know, we have mortgages, we pay bills, you still do all those things in the military I think the difference is it's such a different set up, it's such a different lifestyle from being a civilian You know, people often say, well, you know, the values and standards and the diversity and all those important things Should be replicated in the military And of course they should as far as they can be, but it's a very, very different type of organization with a very, very different type of mission So I think you can, you know, you get people who are representative of society joining it But I don't think it can ever sort of replicate it And I think it does teach you some amazing lessons in life, I think it definitely shapes you as a human being I think most people, it makes them better human beings for sure Just the experiences you have, I think, you know, the fact that you go to these war zones, you're living and working with awesome people who, you know, everything's about the team It's never about self, you know, people don't, like I said, fight for Queen and country, they don't die for Queen and country, they die for the person next to them Because you're literally there shoulder to shoulder and back to back I think all of those qualities are really, really important I think, you know, when you get out, yeah, you have a lot to figure out because it's such a different type of lifestyle, isn't it? And I think some people, it's, you know, a seamless transition, but not for many Yeah, when I think back to when I was in, I mean, the limit of my horizon was going to the gym Or occasionally I used to have a beer with my supper, which was like a big thing for, even though I was in the Marines And we did drink to destruction when we went out I never used to drink at home, it just never occurred to me And this was sort of the limits of my horizons And I didn't think about anything sort of spiritual or psychological or socio-biological All of that came later when I started to go to uni Yeah, yeah And it's ironic to think now all my focus is on trying to work out life And suss this area and learn a bit more about the human psyche And I guess a lot of it is to stay away from the substance use to figure that out Yeah, yeah So I'm quite lucky now, I'm in a place where I can see it all for what it is So I don't, because I understand it, I don't go there I don't just do abstinence in the vain hope at my life My life's alright, no, I had to figure, I had to work out the dynamics of it all So that, and if I get about an hour in the evening to relax in front of the tally And I'll always watch some YouTube documentary over anything else Yeah, yeah Anything about current affairs or alternative perspectives on life And I just think it's funny that when you're in the military or certainly for me My head was in a well different place, you didn't have to think about, I just didn't have to think about these things I think maybe a lot of it's to do with age as well, you know The age of fighting men in our military, you know, fighting men and women in our military of course You know, is much much younger and I think we have those stages in life, don't we? You know, you start with that learning stage of your life, which, you know, starts at school And continues as a young soldier, sailor, you know, marine, whatever it may be Sorry, we are in Iraq, we've just had a power cut So I'm going to look like I'm a ghost for a few minutes and then the power will come back on So do forgive me, we still have internet though, which is great, so That all adds to the, all adds to the podcast, mate So just, I thought you were going to go bang then, I thought, oh Christ No, no, all good, yeah, hopefully, yeah, inshallah So, yeah, you know, we had these three stages, the first stage being the learning stage And I think you have that stage in your life, which is, you know, almost a sort of materialistic stage And the, you know, the Maslow's laws, where you, you know, you want the house, you want the car You want the education for your children, you want that security You know, all of the things that really matter to your average human being And then the latter stage of life is that spiritual stage Where actually, you know, arguably the most important stage, the stage where you really want to figure out why things happen Why you've done the things you've done, what it's all about, you know And I think maybe you and I, you know, at our age and our stage in life, that's where we are now And I think that also, you know, mirrors through your military career as well Certainly for me it did, you know, Christ is the same thing Well, Maslow called itself actualisation, didn't he? And that's a really good term for kind of, wait When you come to fruition And do you drink now, Chris? I mean, I'm in a Muslim country, so we don't really tend to go for it here But absolutely, I mean, when I go home, you know, I'll, you know, maybe once a week or something though Whereas, you know, there was a time, and I've never really shared this, by the way I've shared this with private friends, I've certainly never done it publicly, but, you know, what the hell You know, I was smashing a bottle of vodka a day quite easily And, you know, it's funny how it sort of starts with a little bit, and then it's more and more and more And it becomes normal, and I was a functioning alcoholic, that was the problem with it You know, so, you know, getting away with it, I guess And then there was just at one point, I was just like, you know It's funny, isn't it? Things start going wrong in your life, or other people are successful And you think, well, why are they successful? Why am I not successful? But you sort of almost think it's a God-given, and success is measured in many ways, by the way I'm not saying you ought to be, you know, super famous, super rich, but just, you know, whatever your goal may be You see other people achieving similar goals, and you're not for some reason And it's funny, isn't it? When you actually look introspectively It's quite easy to realise why, you know, when you start changing things about yourself Suddenly, your luck becomes much, much better, and your success becomes much, much better And I think, you know, I just had that sort of, that epiphany moment Where I realised that, you know, this boosting had sneaked up on me and It was time to do something about it, you know I also met my wife at that sort of time as well, who was, you know She'd actually had quite a rock and roll lifestyle as well before her, before we met And we both sort of very much shared, not that she was an alcoholic, by the way But we shared this journey of, you know, self-actualisation, like you say And I guess, you know, spiritual development, spiritual betterment, really I'm sounding like a bit of a hippie here, aren't I? You know, it's really not me at all But I think the point is... No, I think our audience would appreciate it And let's be honest, it's not as though the military hasn't got a high suicide rate So they, you know, they're getting something wrong And it's up to guys like us to help people out here I mean, for anybody listening, I too I can remember midday I could be on the phone to someone Or I could be writing one of my books And I knocked off half a bottle of rum I could never drink a bottle because I used to just get so out of it I couldn't really function anymore So I probably have to go and lie down But I think nothing of doing that And that half a bottle I could... You wouldn't... I don't think you'd notice it on me Just become part of my life But for anybody listening who might be in this situation It's just so ironic that now I'm just so different It doesn't mar my life in any way All it does, my experiences, is add to my life And I'd encourage anybody, if you're having problem with the booze Just give it up for a year Give it up for a year, because that gives you a date then to work towards If you just say, ah, stop with... You know, I won't drink on days with a Y in them Or I'll only drink when it's my cousin's birthday You're just giving yourself permission to relapse But if you actually set a date of a significant time It's remarkably easy once you go for a few days And then you have something in your life for the first time Or for me it was I realised I had power over this, which I never had before Never had before, I was always stopping at the bloody Tesco's booze aisle Having told myself that afternoon, right, not going to drink tonight Not going to drink tonight I knew it was never going to happen But that year, definitely worth doing Give yourself that power I think I added to that, Chris, as well My wife's actually a psychologist, ironically And I always believed that we were sort of 50% nurture, 50% nature We were our DNA and we were our experiences, basically And as a behaviourist, she explained it far more clearly There's three main aspects to our character and our behaviour One is our DNA, our nature One is actually our experiences But the other one's our environments as well And we've all behaved a certain way in front of certain people Like you said, you could go and get absolutely crazy When you're out with fellow Royal Marines going for a run of shore You wouldn't necessarily be doing that with your grandmother Certainly not the naked bars and all that sort of good stuff that you guys got up to I think we behaved differently in different environments And I think certainly, if you can't change your DNA And you can't change the sum of your life experiences What you can absolutely change is your environment as well And you only have to change one of those three things To be able to move forward, to be able to get out of a rut And that classic saying, you take the wrong path You go down the wrong road, you don't have to keep going Go back to the junction and go the other way, can't you? But I think you've got to, whatever it is in your life Whatever you're going to do, whether it's kicking a habit Or whether it's saving the world, finding a cure for cancer Whatever it's going to be, it's not going to happen Until you absolutely want it to happen, is it? And other people can inspire you, they can motivate you But I think you need that light bulb moment where you say Right, I'm going to do this now And then no power on earth can stop you, I think Yeah, and it has to be done because you're on such a negative Live in that lifestyle I mean, you're just putting out negativity and it's Nothing really good comes of drinking, does it? I mean, a good time as well, it's such a waste of your life You know, it's a period of my life, you know I just think, I mean, obviously the good things happen there But ask me to recall any of them off the top of my head You know, I probably couldn't I just see it as a waste of, you know, positive Yeah, like you say, very negative And absolutely waste of time, yeah Yeah How do you, um Or what's your view, Chris Because I was talking about this the other day in a podcast These arms manufacturers Manufacturers, you've seen the other I mean, they just go to a weapons fair Sell a load of land mines Go home and have tea with their family And, you know, play with their kids I would say sociopathic Behaviour What's your kind of view, you've seen the damage that these things do And, um... Yeah, I have, you know, I mean I guess first of all, it's not black and white Um, you know If you put an arms dealer in the room with me And I could get away with it, you know The chances are the arms dealer probably wouldn't get out of the room again afterwards Um, if I was in a room with a bomb maker You know, it's the same thing Um, but of course The media portrays the arms industry Um, as something Greater than it really is The defence industry, you know, all our bomb disposal equipment All the robots we use, all the bomb disposal weapons we use to save lives That all comes, you know, that's all sold at arms fairs and stuff Also, counter-terrorism fairs So, you know, to say these things are terrible Um, would be remiss Um, but I absolutely agree with you, you know Um, if you're making things like anti-personnel mines Um, they're horrendous, you know And there's lots of countries, of course, have signed up to the The Ottawa Convention Um, and, you know, the ban, the land mine, uh, ban treaty There's also many countries that haven't done And nowadays, of course, we're seeing terrorists Because there's so many of these things on the ground The ISIS are actually manufacturing them To exactly the same build and quality as, uh, you know We're seeing commercial organisations, you know, the defence industry making them So, yeah, I think it's a tricky one, isn't it? Um, and especially when We're selling them to countries that are quite unscrupulous as well Um, you know, there's a lot of hypocrisy there, isn't there? And I struggle with that, but, you know Yes The world's a complex place, isn't it? And it's, uh, it can be an evil place as well And there's things that we are prepared to accept And there's things that we're just not prepared to accept There's a lot of people talking at the moment about, you know, Ukraine And the terrible, terrible things that are going on there Um, and I see people saying, you know Well, you're all hypocrites complaining about this, you know Why didn't you complain about Yemen? Why didn't you complain about Palestine and all these sorts of things, you know And it's like, to a degree, they're kind of right But the point is, you know, just because we might not have complained On the same sort of global scale and protested and, you know Really sort of spoken out about those previous atrocities Doesn't mean we shouldn't be speaking about it now, you know Yes Um, Chris, sorry, uh, we've got a question from John What made you choose bomb disposal, disposal as a career? Good question Yeah, good question, John Um, so basically I joined the army when I was 16 Um, my dad had died when I was 15 I went off the rails a bit, uh, a lot And, uh, decided I was going to go and get a trade basically Like many young 16-year-olds when they joined up Um, things like A-levels in university It wasn't really open to me as an option when I was a youngster Um, so yeah, I went off and joined the army at 16 And I trained as a Russian linguist Because at the time, the Cold War was still on And there was a shortage of Russian linguists So they were trained in 16-year-olds Um, so I did that, I was actually probably the worst Russian linguist In military intelligence at the time And then I went off to Sandus when I was 21 to become an officer And I kind of took with the idea of a bomb disposal then And then, uh, um, a couple of years later Um, I witnessed two car bombs detonating in, um Lisbon in the headquarters of Northern Ireland The military in Northern Ireland And, uh, that had quite a powerful and profound effect on me really So that was my sort of epiphany moment in my calling And decided to go in there, you know I always wanted to join the army Then I decided I wanted to be an officer Um, there were a few different options open Um, but, uh, when that sort of, when that bombing occurred That's what cemented it for me, going off to become a bomb tech Yes, um, I remember the first time Well, actually it wasn't the first time But I remember the one explosion we heard in Belfast My God You could hear it right across the city Yeah, it's powerful isn't it Yeah, crazy There were car bombs and stuff when you were out there as well When they, Chris, you know, which are, you know Two or three hundred kilos of high explosive To put that into context A hand grenade holds about two hundred grams of high explosive And those car bombs that you were, uh, experienced out there Were two or three hundred kilograms, you know So, uh, yeah, the explosive power is phenomenal And, um, and once we've been in here We've got sort of, you know, ten kilos of high explosive Um, so, uh, you know They're quite powerful too Yeah, it's amazing to think that the size of a A roll of film is in what a landmine Yeah, that's right That in itself is enough to blow someone's legs off Yeah, it'll certainly blow your foot off And probably blow your, uh, blow your leg off as well, yeah Yes Got a question here from our good friend, Frank Frank's a big supporter of the podcast Thank you, Frank And he actually, um, puts his money where his mouth is Does Frank, he actually funds us as well Which is crucially important Because we couldn't, we couldn't, um Hello, Frank, good effort Yeah, we couldn't have this show If it wasn't for people like Frank And he's saying Was the hurt locker Close to the truth I bet you've been asked this question before Yeah, I have actually It's funny actually, Frank, there's, um A lot of aspects of that story Were absolutely bang on the money And there was actually, um, I wrote a book About my time in Iraq At the same time that's, um, Mark Boll Yeah, Mark Boll I think it was The guy that wrote the hurt locker He wrote his book at the same time as well He was a civilian embedded with the Americans in Baghdad And I was a captain in the army And I was operating in Bajra in southern Iraq And a very brave thing for him to do You know, as a civilian being embedded With the American bomb techs And they didn't have all the experience That we had, the 30 years of experience We had up until that point fighting the IRA Who were the world's leading bomb makers So he wrote this story And what he did was he chose bits and pieces Of all the different stories he'd heard From around Iraq at the time And chose four central characters And the way the characters behave You know, the staff sergeant, the bomb tech You know, fighting with his team That doesn't really happen, you know Getting drunk and then beating the crap out of your team members That doesn't really happen You don't really go for a bimbo downtown through Baghdad at night You know, in civis and see what happens But many of the individual acts did happen Certainly the scene where he goes down And throws smoke grenades to obscure his approach That was actually a job that I did in Bajra So they used that job in his film as well What you would never do, that famous scene, that iconic scene Where there's all the main explosive charges All the artillery shelves, what we call a daisy chain And they're all coming in on a detonating cord And he does that thing where he grabs all the deck cord And he pulls it and you see them all coming up Through the dust and the sand You would never ever do something like that So some of it was a bit of nonsense Some was a bit of an artistic licence And some of it was bang on the money And it was a thoroughly entertaining movie for sure Yes, I'm just playing a little bit for our friends now I'm not sure Can't play too much of it Because we'll be kicked off YouTube in the middle of a live show And that has happened to me before I really wouldn't So massive thank you Paul Morton out there has just kindly donated £10 to the cause Thank you ever so much Paul Really really kind I've just sent Luke a message to say Has Luke got any questions Luke's good with the old questions So if you've got a question for us Luke Luke's our podcast manager What I was going to say is What was it like presenting a TV programme You've presented this Bomb Hunters documentary Yeah, it was interesting Chris Because like you I wrote books And what many people don't realise is When you write a book When they give you a publishing deal It's not just about the quality of your book They want to know that they can actually stick you on telly That you can go and give book talks And all that sort of stuff And luckily if we've been in the military Or standing up in front of an audience So you do the book deal You then go out and basically do the publicity for it You do some book talks And on the back of that I got into motivational speaking And then someone came and watched one of the motivational talks And said Can you have a go at presenting this History Channel documentary for us So together we sort of wrote it And when I say together we wrote it I sort of top and tail the technical aspects of it But it obviously has a very talented team of writers and director And then they said Do you want to actually present it So it made me have the most tremendous amount of respect For these guys you see presenting on TV Because it's really really hard You've got to be part actor You've got to remember your lines You've got to keep up the They film everything again and again and again From different angles Keep up those energy levels all the way through Rather than just like we're doing Having a fireside chat right now So yeah it was fascinating But it was definitely Quite difficult It made me really look at TV presenters In a very different way And with far far more respect Than I'd have them in the past for sure Yeah I was thinking the other day When they have a bad day They've still got to perform haven't they Yeah yeah absolutely They've got to put the game face on Yeah no it's good It was really good And funnily enough actually How many years ago it was probably 10 years ago I just had a message on LinkedIn The other day from the producer Saying could we meet up So who knows maybe there'll be another one Wow We shall see I haven't seen the documentary Were you narrating it Yeah so basically it started off In Pretty much in Northern Ireland Back at the start of the Troubles And it's effectively chronological history Through Northern Ireland Iraq, Afghanistan, Yadi Yadi Yaa And showing the different types of devices The different terrorist bombings On the British mainland as well The 7-7 bombings and that sort of thing And then we did reconstructions Of them as well Yeah had guys that were there Guys that survived Warren Points One of the most notorious bombings Of British forces in Northern Ireland Back in the day And yeah just literally veterans That have been there Members of the public, civilians That have been there And reconstructions of the actual devices Yeah it was a lot of fun making it It was really really interesting Yeah Warren Point Was that the Paris Yeah it was actually the Paris I believe it was the Argyles We're going to get roasted now Because if I've got that wrong You're definitely going to find out about it On YouTube after this But yeah I think it was basically From memory A troop of a A platoon of jocks Had driven through They got hit by a You know this sort of tractor trailers That have all the hay bales on At the edge of Warren Point Reservoir And that detonated Command wire or radio control That detonated Caused a load of deaths And then the Paris moved in here with a quick reaction force And There was a very obvious place To have an incident control point It was sort of gateway to an estate With a sort of you know Label at the side of the road So they moved in there, set up their ICP Incident control point in there And the IRA had placed a secondary device In there They obviously looked at the ground and said Right if we plant the main device here Then that's where they're going to put their Incident control points So very very cunning and clever And of course it killed a load of Paris as well So yeah quite a horrendous day And the same day of course That Lord Mountbatten was murdered By terrorists as well That driver must have been asleep Not to spot that hay lorry Yeah I mean it's It's you know the man in the arena isn't it It's very very easy with hindsight And all the factors to sort of say Well really what was going on But I guess it was quite early On in the conflict as well The combat indicators that you and I Would have picked up on the ground You know they were sort of developed Weren't they from years and years of experience And who knows Who knows what was going through their mind Who knows what was distracting them But yeah it was the single greatest loss of life In the British Armed Forces In one day I remember meeting somebody Who was involved And they said They said to me something like I went from A four man room To just me overnight Or something like that Lost all his mates basically Yes Yes bear by the grace of God Um Can I just say a big thank you To Gary Gary's chip Very kindly chipped in some Some money in the pot Thank you ever so much Gary He said this is fascinating Yes Gary it is fascinating And this is why I like recording these conversations Because um They're quite novel really You don't get the chance to just sit down Bomb disposal expert And ask them anything That you want It's an honour We've got Frank's asking Are the suits you put on any good That's another brilliant question actually The uh The suits have continually evolved I actually did a London marathon in one of them To raise some money for The military charities once The most stupid thing I've ever done in my life by the way I was in clipped by the end of it But uh They designed to um Protect you against a certain amount of fragmentation What we used to call shrapnel In the first world war The correct term for it is fragmentation And it protects against a certain amount of fragmentation Travelling at a certain speed From a certain distance And it will protect you from a certain amount of blast Coming out from the high explosion And it will protect you as you're walking up To the other device But in all reality If the device was to detonate While you're over the top of it rendering it safe Then you'd be vaporised And at the very best Your head would be contained in the helmet Your torso in part of the bomb suit Your arms may be in one of the arms And your legs in one of the legs of the bomb suit So it's not designed to uh It's not like a sort of astronaut suit Designed to keep you safe in space Sometimes when you're wearing it You can just dispense with it If you're trying to work under a car for example An undercar booby trap You're not going to get under there with that suit Because it's quite big and bulky So you'll take bits of it off and then put bits back on again afterwards When I first went out to Iraq in In 2004 I got heat exhaustion on my first day And woke up in the medical centre tent I dealt with a bank of rockets That were stuck fast on a timer actually It was like a proper James Bond bomb The mechanism was stuck fast And we couldn't get the robot down there Because it was on undulating terrain So I went down there and I was absolutely hanging out Managed to sort of render it safe And then projectile vomited And I drank about 7 litres of water But uh Literally collapsed, went man down What I didn't realise is You're not just supposed to rehydrate water And you'll know this Chris from your time in there Various different climates You've actually got to take in all the salts as well Smashing the water back But of course when you're sweating you're sweating out all the salts So as a result Went man down Woke up in the medical centre tent And just got loads and loads of grief And ribbing from the boys for being weak basically So after that I never wore the bomb suit again For the rest of that 4 month tour It was just Not only would it curtail my capability But I'd probably more likely collapse from the exhaustion Fall on the bomb and blow myself to pieces anyway So um and out here You know interestingly In my army career I did less than 100 improvised explosive Devices and was considered Quite experienced I guess you know Um out here In Iraq, Libya And Syria I've done over a thousand Um Victim operated IDs The hardest types to do basically The ones you do by hand And my colleagues have all done the same as well You know it's a very very different level And workload And we just wear normal You know plate carrier basically What you call a bulletproof vest you know That's it And t-shirts and baseball caps And obviously the Oakleys you know And that's uh You wear what you need to wear to be able to still function Basically Yes it's um Reminding me I've just read a really good book It's about Lima Company In the Falklands so my My old company Um Quite a few of the names in the book Were guys that were still in the company When I served with them But they in the Falklands They'd wandered um or patrolled Into a Uh field of land mines What do you call it A minefield yeah Minefield Um and one of the chaps Tony I believe His name was got His leg blown off and It's God it must just get Incredibly real at that moment Yeah I mean when I came out here Um the guy I Took over from was killed Doing a uh an IED In fact I'm going to be really unprofessional I'm going to get off camera for two seconds When I grab one of these devices and bring it over and Yeah yeah yeah please do Two seconds mate Dun dun dun So what have we got Got a couple more Questions here good question there From John have the devices You dispose of Change much Over your career good question John Right Picture plays a thousand words doesn't it So these are the uh The IEDs that we're seeing Um this is the fuse here That when you step on it it goes bang And That's got about 10 kilograms of high Explosive and It's designed for a vehicle to uh to initiate This is a cutaway so All of this here is Uh fertilizer And uh an aluminium powder Um it's called anal Monium nitrate aluminium and that's what They tend to use in Afghanistan And uh an ISIS user in Iraq And then they've manufactured these uh These fuses here with a detonator there And detonating cord um And then this plate on top when you step on it It basically causes that To impinge on the detonator on a Percussion cap like a 2-2 cap That causes a detonator to detonate And then all of this explodes And it's got this metal plate here as well Which travels up through the vehicle as well just to uh You know um Extra menace to it You know when I first came here Um these are quite tricky to To render save as well we did them by hand And the guy I took over from Um uh he'd been killed the week before Doing this you know and it's quite Quite eerie when you you know you turn up And It's a small environment it's a small community So we all kind of know each other Um but even though I'd worked with These guys in in the military before Um you know you're Coming to replace a guy that I worked with for the last however many years And now he's dead And he just disappeared off the face of the earth last week And he's left his family behind you know And I was actually you know in his Bed his room would became my room That's that's really really You know quite heartbreaking And quite strange as well You know and and yeah Here I am 3 years on um Still doing it so yeah Have you got a date in your Mind when you're gonna Can we say give All this up It's funny because I I mean I retired from it Chris um and You know went on the uh commercial Circuit doing a bit of bodyguard work And then went into the security industry And became a director of a big Security organization in London Designing the security features For the the world's biggest sort of Iconic buildings like you know Buildings like the shard and the Burj Al Khalifa Those sorts of you know buildings But I was very very bored And uh I am where my daughters were You know grown up um Then I thought actually I can get back into this And it's interesting because You know we we spend our life Learning and developing these skills And Every day is still a learning Day um But there are guys in the military at the Moment that actually They missed Iraq and Afghanistan They're not really doing any Improvised explosive devices Um and they're going through the ranks in the Military uh with with comparative Little little experience and then We've got guys here that you know have been to Pretty much every major conflicts Um and then since leaving the Military they've come out to places like this Where they're doing a thousand improvised explosive devices The level of knowledge and experience Is phenomenal so we all learn off each other all the Time um and For me it's just been amazing To be able to Do what I absolutely love And I think to have a job where I And I don't mean this to sound sort of pompous Or arrogant or anything else Um I'm just a normal bloke but It's such an honour and such a luxury To have a job Where you actually do feel like You're doing something worthwhile You know um because so many people They just do what they've got to do to get by And I think it's A real gift to be able to uh Go back into the job that I absolutely love Um When I left the military and thought That's it then you know never going to be able to do it again So yeah The answer is I don't know how long I'll do it for But probably until uh Until I can't get out of bed in the mornings Yes I was just Thinking then how many Children must still be alive Because of the work you've done Um Could you imagine Yeah you know it's Yeah there was there was a guy When we were in Syria last year Um and uh Later A farmer and his son had no legs Um And a donkey had stepped on one of these One of these mines and it blew the donkey in half And blew this kid's legs off But he did actually survive So many have died but every time we do one of these I just think about that kid And you know and his donkey and think That's another farmer that can work in his farm That's another kid that's still got his legs basically Um so it is you know It is nice in that respect Yeah good good credit you may honestly it's um Yeah you should um You're a humble man But You definitely deserve all the Credit in the world Um We've got John was asking here Have the dis Have the devices Dispose of Change much Over your career Yeah another great question Um that's really interesting actually Because When I joined the military Back in 1989 as a kid It was um You know the IRA was still very prevalent Um the military were very much British Army were British Armed Forces Were very much engaged against them They were our main threat really They were one of the most prevalent terrorist groups In the world but they were The most prolific And experienced bomb makers in the world So people like the FARC rebels in Columbia um the Tamil Tigers the um Bass separatists in And the French Spanish border They would all work with the IRA And you know trade arms and drugs For uh for bomb making capability And that sort of stuff and They were definitely the world's leaders in it We went into Iraq in 2003 I didn't go Into 2004 but when the uh The main uh coalition force Went in 2003 um The IRA at that point was still the world's leading Bomb makers within 12 months Of the British And American and coalition forces being In Iraq by 2004 when I got there They'd superseded the Level of technical sophistication achieved by the IRA In 30 30 years In just 12 months and in Afghanistan In 18 months you know and so We've seen this evolution going on and on and on And then when we got to ISIS to Daesh Um they recruited People from every single Walk of life with you know their Lies were very very Convincing um and especially If you would devout about your um Muslim faith you know and believe That there was a prophecy coming and all those sorts of things Um our Baghdadi Absolutely capitalized that and And fooled a lot of people a lot of decent people as Well actually but they were they were committed But some of those people were actually You know worked in media television news So the quality of their recruitment videos Were world class and it was the Same with the weapons manufacturer We were dealing with mortar bombs artillery shells Weapon systems mines that look Exactly like you know factory precision um Precision manufactured munitions you know So yes the answer is it's uh It's evolved um and they've got better And better and better but you still deal with the Stuff that you know a school kid might make in his garden shed You know so uh It's not always the highest quality I guess the The evolutions Um To be expected if you think we've got the internet now Yeah exactly I bet there's places on the dark web you can Just find out Anything that you want Yeah for sure I think you could probably Get hold of it as well on the dark web you know Yeah of course yeah you can buy it Buy the stuff as well and have it Delivered by FedEx Shocking isn't it Yes um we've got Luke saying Uh I think Luke's asking did you ever Have to deal with a secondary Device Uh let me think Um It's funny because we always always Always all our procedures always Take into account for secondaries Uh so let me just think back Um Yeah uh One that springs to mind was was actually Back in Iraq um in 2004 Um there was a primary device At the side of the road and then there was a Radio controlled IED In a Vegetable geo vegetable gears like vegetable oil When they buy them in these great big Tins they buy it in these great big tins And instead of having Traffic cones at the side of the road Um they have have piles of rocks or these empty Vegetable g-tins Full of uh rocks and rubbish and And they had a um They were expecting us to park in there basically As a as an incident control point area And that had a radio controlled IED in it Um so You know remote control bomb basically Um But yeah there were probably others as well but Yeah um none That's been to mind Chris I'm gonna thank you Very much I'm aware that you're Uh um You're a very busy man Um do you want to just update Us on your books and give them a Shout out? I mean that's very kind of you mate um I certainly um It's a great honour to come on the show and I've Come on to chat with you and very much support Your show you know not to promote my books but As you've invited me to do so One's called Eight Lives Down um which Is a story about my uh my first Two in uh in Iraq and then the uh The sequel to it is called Extreme Risk Um a life fight in the Bomb Makers And uh there'll probably be another one Out you know um as I've it's been Ten years since I wrote the last book So um I'm sure there'll be another one about my Uh my antics and those are my muckers as Well so but yeah thanks very much For having me on and uh and thanks guys For all your questions and for supporting the other podcast Yes absolutely my pleasure Chris Really nice talk talking to you And it's just so fascinating I think everyone who's Watching or listening will Will agree it's a real honour To hear this Straight from the From the professional That's very kind mate thank you So massive thank you to you Chris Um To everybody at home Massive thanks to you all So if you could like and subscribe That would um really be appreciated Thank you was it to Gary And Paul Um and to Frank In the chat for sending us Some money really really kind of you Fellas and um That's it uh Chris Don't stay on the line because I've literally got to Turn this off and rush Um but uh Let's chat again soon And um yeah Go easy over there Thanks very much indeed Take care everybody you're the best Cheers cheers