 All righty then. I think we're live. This is going to be a very chill podcast, I think. Let me know. Tangents whatsoever, I'm sure. If you are in the chat and watching live, if we could get some yay's or nay's on the audio, which will probably necessitate Tyler saying some words. Yes. Here is me speaking. Like the southern gentleman he is. I don't know about that, but we can convince people. Like you live near Dolly Parton. I'm pretty sure that you have to be a southern gentleman if you live near Dolly Parton. True. True. Well, I mean, you know, that or I mean, you could be a scoundrel and be because you're Graceland, right? No, I prefer to take the Dolly Parton route, you know. Try, try and act extremely like southern kind, then just own a theme park and make crap tons of money. Like, yeah, that's the goal. That's the goal. Maybe the female version of Dick Clark and Never Age. Tell you that. Like, I look like he was in his like 50s until he pumped over. He's going to be the same way. So we got some yay's. So thank you everybody for joining us. We are changing the days. I'll make the announcement once we get started recording, but we will be doing it this time on Fridays instead of this time on Thursdays from now on, or at least until for the foreseeable future. And that's, that's my fault because Thursdays are just, you don't know the horror until you have to sit through Zoom meetings with an editorial staff, half of whom couldn't spell the word editorial. If there's like dependent on it. That's so bad. I probably shouldn't say that I'm not with people watching. So don't don't repeat that to anybody that I work with. You're definitely listening. I don't. I don't know where he found some of these. The guy, my boss, his name is Tony. He can't hire with a dam. And I said, he like he hired me. I think we have enough proof. This is going to be an interesting topic. I like this one. Yeah, it should be pretty good. I think what we're going to do is go ahead and just go ahead and get started. Go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and get started. I'm going to do one of those things today. There's going to be a lot of arms in this one too. My brain, it'll take a while for my brain to get engaged. Let's just put it that way. I would say I could pick up your slack. But, you know, with me running on two and a half hours of sleep, I think I'm going to be right there with you. You're going to have to get that sleep schedule better. Having a solid sleep schedule is for the week. No, you're young. You're young yet. You know, when you get old like me, you know, you'll you'll be the benefits of going to sleep around three o'clock in the morning instead of five. I was going to say, so tell me about that like importance of good sleep and fall asleep at a decent time. We all know that YouTube videos are like snapchats. They disappear after a while, so I have to watch them. I'm honest. I could be a hundred percent honest right now and say that I've never sent a snapchat in my entire life. I don't even know how. But have you ever even had a snapchat? No. OK. I don't have an account. I've never downloaded the application. Now, here's a dirty little secret, though. I am a tiktok addict. Dude, there's so much good shit on tiktok. It's fucking crazy. There's a reason why Facebook and YouTube have tried to emulate tiktok because there's some good shit on there, man. I'm telling you, I mean, some horrible, terrible shit on it, too. But it's just very funny, hilarious stuff on there. Makes me laugh. I would never I've never posted a tiktok. I like taking the Tom Segura approach to tiktok. And I've just it like I like the idea of just replacing the R word with tiktok. You know, we've got a tiktok, you know, you're acting tiktarded, you know, I like that. Everybody knows you don't go full tiktok. It's it's terrible, man. I've seen some of the dumbest things that a person can possibly do from tiktok. Oh, definitely, definitely. But there's still some good stuff on there. You can't. There's just cat videos, man. I'm telling you, there's one called Skippity Pat. And it's just a cat slapping the shit out of everybody. Come on. How can you not laugh? And then there's another one with a cat and a German shepherd. They're like passing each other. And the cat, the cat, the voice over is taking the place of the cat. He's like, oh, you're a German shepherd. We'll say hello to the Allied forces. He smacks the German shepherd across the face. What? I just can't help it, man. It's funny. Cat videos. It's it's like the early days of YouTube. That's all YouTube boys was cat videos. It's kind of like that. All right. That's not selling me on tiktok at all. It's a waste of time, but it's the. I don't like I never open that app when I'm outside of the bathroom. So it's like. I know a lot of for a lot of people like tiktok has taken the place of what like I funny used to be. Nine gag and funny or die. Yeah, you just sat on like it's like it's like the 21st century equivalent of newspaper on the toilet. You know, like you're just just having something to read or like to look at just to look at. Oh, it's definitely not something you want to do when, you know, you have, you know, important things to do. All right, let's go ahead and get started. Enough of that nonsense. All right, I'm hitting record on audacity. I'm hitting record in OBS and you can do the. Whatever you call them is whatever you want. This is going to be one of those days. The claps. Yeah. That thing where you put your hands together. Do that thing. I guess so with the fingers. You got to do it with the fingers. Three, two, one. Sounded pretty good on my end. It was good, except for your hand disappeared because there's a blue screen. Mining up stuff doesn't matter. Anyways, that's that tiktok equals cancer. Well, I mean, I've never had cancer before, but if it's like tiktok, I'm all for it. Oh, my God, that's horrible. That clip right there will definitely be used out of context. Oh, I'm sure. All right. Phone is on silent. I'm going to get started here. You reminded me because I forgot. Yes. Perfect. All right, let's go. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the next guest. I'm your host, Matt. And I'm Tyler. Indeed he is. He is Tyler. And yeah, if you are watching this live, you probably are wondering, wait a minute, isn't this Friday, not Thursday? Good deduction that it is indeed Friday, not Thursday. So if you watch our watching live or plan to watch live in the future, I'm just going to put this out there right here at the beginning. Our live record dates from Thursday at three o'clock p.m. Eastern time to Friday around three o'clock p.m. Eastern time. So that's going to be the case for the foreseeable future at least. And that's my problem because of meetings and stuff. Also, that means that if you are listening to the audio version of this, it will be coming out on Saturdays now instead of Fridays. And if you are a patron, you get early access to that audio. And Friday's instead of Thursday's. So everything will be a day later. It's just going to be, unfortunately, the way it is for a little while. So this is the Linux cast. We talk about, you know, Linuxy things usually, although we did just spend 20 minutes talking about my TikTok addiction where I can somebody compared it to cancer. And then I said, well, cancer sounds pretty good. We're just all worried about you. It's always we care. I swear to God. It's the cat videos. It's cats are hilarious. And when you put them on camera, they perform. Like it's great. I can't help it. You can get you help. It's totally OK. Here's my recommendation for anybody who hasn't downloaded TikTok yet. Don't do it. Like I love it. But once you've downloaded it and got into it, you can't get it. Essentially what's happening right now is the equivalent of a math ad telling you, yeah, you probably shouldn't do math. It's exactly what it is. They make the good stuff. I can't help it. Anyways, this is not the TikTok cast. We won't talk about it anymore. I can't help. I understand as a false advocate, I should be saying, oh my God, I'm sending all my data to China, but China already has all my data. And I lied about everything. I didn't give them my real name or my real email address. Don't worry about all that. I'm good. Very anonymous. They don't know me in China. Anyways. You do know TikTok grabs your entire clipboard, right? Oh, I'm sure. OK. What does it matter? Have it all. It's good. Just give me cat videos. I'm good. That addiction, man. I don't care what the cost is. It's so much fun. There's so little to laugh about. There's, you know, good stuff on TikTok. Anyways, this is the Linux cast. We talk about legacy things. We won't talk about TikTok anymore. Tyler, what have you been doing this week on Linux? Well, I really have just been using BSPWM, like, and just kind of enjoying it. I've been playing a lot of vampire survivors, which runs fine on Linux. I don't know if I've said this before, just in case anyone's, like, going to go get it and, like, wants to play it because it's super cheap on Steam and it's a great game. Look. Do the public beta. Like, right click on it. Go to properties and do the public beta on Linux and it'll work fine. It's, for some reason, you just need the beta for it to work fine. But, yeah, BSPWM is just so good. Like, it uses my ultrawide in just the best way vertically. It's awesome, which I went ahead and also this week moved my monitor horizontal. So I've got both my regular 1080p 16 by 9 monitor horizontal and this one both horizontal. And there's too much. So here's, like, I'm looking at one edge of a screen. Now I'm at the other one. There's too much screen real estate around. For the audio listeners, he looked like he was at a tennis match going from one end to the other. It's wild. Also analytic mind has said he also just dropped. He was talking about you. Yes. Well, and I only moved. I only ended up going with Arch. I tried to install Debian, but Debian's XOR was broken. Like, for some reason, I just, it was probably a simple fix, probably something very stupid, like whatever, but I was just unwilling to fix it. So I just installed Arch and it worked fine. But as of today, the past couple of days, I've been working with MnTalk over on Discord and we're making like just a funny kind of just fan version of vampire survivors with a whole bunch of unreal mega scans, metahuman assets and stuff like that. So we're making like kind of a hyper realistic version of the game. But I will go ahead and say, like most likely it's going to be terribly performant, like, because there's going to be a lot of enemies and we're using very high quality assets. So it's probably going to run like dog poo poo. But yeah, we're having fun messing around with that right now. But I'll probably be back in Arch here in a day or so, because I want to do some content on a little application that I just found out about that seems pretty interesting, but I don't know if I'm going to like it. So there might be a video on a cool, like little Linux game dev application here before too long. But yeah, that's what I've been up to. What about you, brother? All right. So first I'm going to start out with your Arch thing. I'm still on vanilla Arch. I did not hop, but I will have to say that normally when I install vanilla Arch, I always have some problem. Something or the other that just bothers me. So I have to go to something else. Usually that's something else's Arco. This time, and I'm going to knock on some wood here, this system has been running so good and it's been using about half as much memory as Arco did, like half. It's like nuts. Like usually at this time when I'm running OBS discord, I have 14 workspaces open right now. I have seven on this one, seven on that one. And I'm literally not even, like I'm not even kidding about that. There's 14 workspaces here. And like there's just a ton of stuff open. I'm using 13 gigabytes of RAM. I love how you tell me that you're using a lot of workspaces like I'm supposed to be surprised. I'm using 13 gigabytes of RAM. Normally it's in the 20s when I'm doing this on Arco. It's nuts. But this has been way better. And I don't, I no clue why that is. Like I'm no clue why. Cause it's all the same stuff. It's stuff. But anyways, yeah, Arches, but this install has just been running. Oh, so good. I'm wondering. I mean, it doesn't make any sense to me, but this is my first UEFI install. I'm wondering that has something to do with how good it's running. I don't know. I wouldn't think so. Cause that's just has to do with the boot, right? But I don't know. It's the only thing I can think of that's different. Anyways, the real thing that I wanted to talk about. So a couple months ago, I bought this mouse. If you're watching the video version, you can see I'm holding up on MX Master 3. And this is a wonderful mouse. And it's very ergonomic and very good. The problem is, you probably can't hear this over the thing, but I have a, it's the left mouse button is squeaky. And it was driving me freaking moniker. So this mouse only lasted about two months. Now I know you can replace the switches, but I'm not just screw that. I'm not going to get out of the Southern gun just to replace a switch on the mouse. But anyways, so what I did is I switched back to the Alcom huge trackball. And I did not like this trackball mouse when I first tried it. I talked about it on the show. And now I've been using it now for four or five days. It's fantastic. It's so good. The thing is, the funny thing is when I first got it, and it was so, like it was so inaccurate. I looked up the thing about it and everyone said you had to break it in. Like you had to use it for a while in order to get it to work really well. And I didn't listen to them because why would I do that? I mean, seriously, I know everything. They couldn't possibly know what they're talking about. But anyways, after using this now for four or five days, it's broken in. And it's either I've gotten used to it or it's broken in. And it's very accurate. It's very comfortable. Also, I got this little mouse rest thing. Again, I'm holding it up on camera. It looks like a half a donut. And you win. I mean, this probably cost them 10 cents to make in China. And it's supposed to have memory foam on top of this. It's harder than hell, but it doesn't really matter. It supports. It just changes the way I use the Alicom huge in such a way that it's so much more comfortable than it was before. Because while you're supposed to be able to like rest your wrists at the bottom of this, my hands are so fucking gigantic you on, you know, that my wrist hangs off the end. Like I have a gigantic manhand here and it was so uncomfortable. So adding that wrist rest at the end has it so that there's a place for I can rest my wrist and it just make it so much more comfortable because it's been working so well. I downloaded input key input remapper or whatever it's called. And this has three programmable buttons on it. And I set the two of them to OBS shortcuts so that I can change scenes with those two little switches or buttons next to the ball, the mouse, the scroll or whatever. It's awesome. I guess so good. I guess completely changed the way I record my videos because now I don't have to remember which key binding I have set to those scenes. Half the time I never used the key binding. So now I have those things are just, you know, just one, two. And it's amazing. Yeah. Highly recommend the outcome huge if you can actually buy one there. Pretty much. Oh, also that had nothing to do with Linux, by the way. I did talk about trackball usage is more popular on Linux. You just hear more people talking about using a trackball on Linux. You really I mean, you really do because it's maybe it's a nerd thing. I guess so. Or I don't know. Like because trackballs are just not very mainstream. Like I guess people more into computers are going to be the people who are like willing to try it as like just kind of a let's see how this is. Like. I don't know, but also to like a lot of the times when it comes to trackballs, they're surprisingly accurate. Like. You really don't get how accurate a trackball is until you use one. You're like, this is scary accurate. Like you can fling it and be super fast and then stop on a dime. Yeah. And it's so nice. You which. And I think you'd probably agree with me on this. If you're just thinking of switching to a trackball. Don't give up after the first week. Because it is a different way of using a mouse. I mean, it really does take some getting used to. And if you're like me, I didn't give it that week and got frustrated after a few days. And it's just like the logitech one that I have is which is a thumb tracker that really puts some effort into your stomach. I understand lazy man here, but it, you know, those muscles aren't things you use very often. You can get fucking tired when you use it a lot. Right. So. You're going to have to, you know, use it for a while, get some muscle memory and get good at it. If you're not, if you don't give it that time to get good at it, you're just going to go back to using a regular mouse. Yeah. And also it's different. It's not like it's, it's just like getting a whole new keyboard layout. Like it's going to take time to adapt to it. Whether or not you're better with your keyboard afterwards is, you know, it's, it's debatable. Like for whether or not you'll be that person where you'll be faster because you have a different keyboard layout. Some people won't end up being any faster, but for most people, if it's a more optimized one, yeah. And that's the thing with track balls. Like they're, they're very accurate, especially if you, if you get really good at using a track ball, like even in video games, you can use a track ball and be pretty accurate with them. But a track ball is something that you're not used to. So you have to be willing to give it time to get, get used to and know that you won't immediately be as efficient with a track ball. Like it might, you might immediately really like it, like the feel of using a track ball, but you're not going to immediately be nearly as fast. And the biggest thing with track balls that I hear is one, like understand that you probably will need to clean your track ball periodically. Most people don't understand that. Like you probably do need to clean it. And then two, there are quite a number of track ball, like devices that genuinely do have a break in. Like you have to, like it's like a, it's, it's like your old car, like or whatever where you would get better gas mileage has it. Like as you drove it, like broke it in, like it's the same kind of thing with your track ball mice. You just be willing to give it the time to break in. This is not my metaphor. I still have someone else. They, they talk about it like it's a cast iron skillet. You have to, you have to season it, right? You have to, you have to make sure that it has, what makes it, you know, smooth and scrolling is the skin oil that it picks up after a little little bit of use. Now it sounds gross, but that's what makes it smooth and more accurate. And that only happens after a little while. So, um, and you talked about gaming just real quick. I was supposed to make a video about this or write a blog post something, but, um, you know, you've made it as a YouTuber when a company sends you hardware to review. Somebody sent me a track ball to review. It's called the game ball. Here's my review of it. It's okay. It's was the first track ball that I used out of the box that was super accurate and had no breaking period. Uh, but the form factor is, um, mediocre at the best because what they try, I don't have it near me, but I can't show you. But, um, if you, if you look at it, they try to make it so that it could work for both right and left handers. So it's a, uh, a finger, a finger, a finger tracker instead of a thumb tracker. And, uh, they put the ball in the center and it's so narrow along the body of it. It's just supremely uncomfortable to hold because they tried to make it so both lefties and righties can use it. And, um, it's very accurate if you can get past the ergonomics of it, but if you use a track ball mouse because of the ergonomics, this is definitely not one that you would want to use. Um, I probably could have gotten used to it, but it's also corded. It's not wireless. So they want, they wanted to remove all the latency. So it's, you know, has this big, gigantic, non-removable USB cord. And, um, it was like, what is this, the 1980s? You know, you know, um, first of all, I understand the latency problem. Like you don't want to mess around with 2.4 gigahertz like dongles or whatever. Um, but non-removable in this day and age. It's like, let me remove it so that I can route the damn thing. I mean, the nowadays even $40 mechanical keyboards, which I don't even understand how you get mechanical switches, even knockoffs and that cheap. They come with USB-C like removable. Like how just come on, give it, just give it to me. Come on. I'm sending it off money. Let's make it half and captain. Yep. Totally agree. Um, so yeah, the, the game ball, um, they sent it to me. There was my review. Um, to the guy who sent it to me. For sending it to me. I'm sorry I didn't do a dedicated video on it, but I didn't want to make a video about your thing and be so negative about it. So, um, Well, I don't think that's negative. Like that's just very constructive criticism. Well, I, I, I was not, it's not like you gave it a scathing review at all. Yeah. You're like, yeah, it's still good. Well, it was very, it was very accurate. It was definitely would work really well. And forget, I remember I'm not a gamer. So I can't really tell you say, hey, oh yeah, you can go play some, some CS go on this thing and be perfectly happy. I don't, I mean. That's like me sending you an Xbox elite controller and you've been like, I mean, yeah, it's a good controller, but like, I mean, I play like two games a year. Yeah. It's not something that I can accurately speak on, but from a regular daily use perspective, it was fine. Just the ergonomics were often that cord really bothered me. So, um, anyways, I also, I know that I wasn't the only one that had problems with ergonomics. Craft computing got one in for review and he had the same problem. So anyway, so, wow, we have run the gamut already in only 20 minutes. And we're talking to start off with tick tock. Talked about BS PWM and arch and track balls. What's next? Nobody knows. All right. So moving on to the contact information. If you want to get in contact with us, you can do so at the next cast on Twitter. You can follow and find pretty much all of the previous episodes and blog posts and stuff at the linuxcast.org. You can follow Tyler, who goes by Zany online. I got that right this week. He's at youtube.com slash Zanyo Giger. Oh, Rick, you're getting close to 2,500 now. Subscribers, something like that. Uh, maybe. I don't know. I would be surprised. I thought I was still at like 2.1 or something like that. I don't know. Anyway, his channel is flying. You should go over and subscribe to him. He does a lot of game stuff. Like he streams like a lot. Like the man never sleeps. I tell you. Anyways, uh, yeah, Zany, uh, youtube.com slash Zanyo G. Uh, he's also on discord and Odyssey and all those stuff. You can find those links at, uh, linuxcast.org slash contact. And make sure you subscribe to, uh, my channel on youtube, youtube.com slash Linux cast where you'll find a daily Linux content of varying degrees of quality. Which make that my slogan. Burying degrees of quality. Usually blow average. Tyler disappeared because of the blue screen. That's great. Anyways, uh, that is the contact information. So Tyler, every single week you and I, we scour the interwebs for the most latest breaking and exclusive news to bring to the masses here on the Linux cast. So what was your news this week? Oh, mine is, there was a, um, interesting little Linux backdoor fountain. Um, and it was like real nasty. So, um, again, like just in case anyone is somehow been misled into believing that we are experts on like security or some shit. That's not true. At all. I just can read and this is kind of bad because so what the malware is, I think they've dubbed it symbiote. Um, but what makes it different from other Linux malware is that, uh, that these researchers typically come across is that it needs to infect other running processes to inflict damage on infected machines. Uh, instead of being a standalone executable file that, uh, that is run to infect a machine, this, uh, this malware is a shared object library that is loaded into all running processes using LD preload. Um, and then parasitically infects the machine. Once it has infected all of the running processes, it provides the threat actor with root kit functionality, obviously, because I run all the processes on your machine. Um, and so they can harvest anything, credentials, remote access, like they can, they can do any, like anything. And yeah, um, I'm going to assume because there's already been this article published that it's already patched. So like update, update your shit and you'd be good, but it's just, this one was interesting to read because I'm like, oh, this is bad. Like that sounds real nasty because it's an infect, it's essentially just an infected library that's shared by essentially everything. Well, yeah. And nobody pays attention to what libraries you download, right? When you download an application that downloads a ton of libraries, like, hello, Pandoc downloads that take a ton of Haskell libraries. Like you could sync something in there and I would have no clue cause I can always ignore it. Um, Well, I mean, it's Haskell. Like you could totally slip something into Haskell and have nobody notice. There's so many, there's so much stuff to do in Haskell, but I mean, I think that's what you can do with those languages. I think you can make an argument with plenty of different ones, but point still stands. Python too. Python always has a ton of libraries that you have to download with your applications. The thing about Python though is that Python is so standard, usually you have most of those libraries already on your computer, right? Um, yeah, that's a, it's a very weird attack vector because usually it's just an executable that somebody downloads from a link in their email or something. This seems to be completely different. That's kind of scary. All right. Moving on to something that we can bitch about. Microsoft has, which owns GitHub. By the way, if you haven't noticed Microsoft owns GitHub and they have decided that they're going to discontinue development on the Adam Text Editor. Now I'm not sure if anyone actually uses the Adam Text Editor anymore. The thing is pretty old and kind of long in the tooth at this point, but it was open source, I believe, and it's something that people would use as an alternative to something like VS Code, but because Microsoft therefore owns both of them, they decided to ax the open source one and focus on VS Code instead, which is of course proprietary. I just want to say this. All are me surprised that Microsoft has chosen to do this. I mean, prize. Well, but I mean, at the same time, like they're really in all honesty, like most people weren't really for Adam anyway. Yeah. It was, I mean, almost there's really nothing that you can do in Adam that can't be done in VS Code or many other competitors. And so it's kind of, I kind of understand it from Microsoft's perspective. Like why do why do we manage two text editors when one is just a dumbed down version of the other one that we have anyway? And if you want an open source version of VS Code, there is VS Codeium. So I mean, like why manage it? I understand it from that perspective. I also understand being upset like, well, I like Adam. Like, there's definitely those people out there that do enjoy it and use it. Well, I mean, you would understand because why would they maintain two text editors or, you know, code editors that are basically aiming to do the same kind of thing, right? They'd have to maintain developers for both of them. And of course, they were going to ax the one that nobody uses. I mean, because in relative to VS Code, Adam is very small. So I mean, it makes sense. But of course, it's Microsoft, so we have to ding them. So that's just the other thing. Yeah, of course. I'm surprised at how much people are actually, because do you know anybody who actually uses Adam? No. And actually one time when I used it, I think it was in a live stream or something, I actually got more people complaining that I used Adam than anything else. They were mostly just like, there's so many different alternatives to Adam. Why are you using it? So I don't know. I don't think Adam's really all that popular. I know tons of people who use VS Code, like just like tons of people, even like Die Hard, like FOSS advocates will use VS Code. I don't know a single person who uses Adam. The only thing I do know is that it comes pre-installed on Arch Linux. Or not Arch, but Arco. It's the only program that comes pre-installed on vanilla Arch. You can start it with startX and stuff. It's so wild. No, I meant Arco, but still it's still the thing. So that's the news. Nothing really all that interesting this week. Although I did see that this is not in the show notes, but System 76 is building a distribution center in Europe. So if you are in the if you're across the pond and you want to buy System 76 thing, eventually you're going to be able to do that, which is really cool. I wish that this had some like I wish this gave me some hope that some of the European Linux hardware manufacturers would come across stateside because I mean everyone, I mean American exceptionalism and all that stuff, but Europe and Great Britain stuff, they have access to some of the greatest Linux hardware and we don't get any of that stuff. I mean, if we're being honest though, is there a faster way as a Linux or FOS company to become like under much more scrutiny than to go multinational? Yeah, true. I mean, they follow all the rules though of the EU something. Oh yeah, but I mean, I feel like in the Linux space like it's not that like people will not like you for getting big like that's not true at all, but definitely in the Linux space we get very much more critical of companies where they get very big. So if your company gets to a point where it can be like international like you just come under more scrutiny which is like neither here nor there. I'm just saying like it's kind of a thing for why I don't think many companies who are doing at the very least decent where they are don't have a real drive to go international like you might make more profit as long as you can do it but you'll get under more scrutiny. Yeah. Just a final word on that system 76 thing just so everybody knows I don't want to give them false hope they're going to start out with a keyboard. The first thing you'll be able to buy there is their $300 custom mechanical keyboard and as a keyboard enthusiast which everybody knows that I am that is not a custom keyboard just don't buy that thing and think you have a custom keyboard you don't have you have a pre-built keyboard which doesn't mean it is bad there are plenty good pre-built custom keyboards out there but it's not custom you did not build it. I'm a keyboard enthusiast I can't help it it's like I love it details matter it's like all the arch guys who just get so pissy when I say that like Arco or you know endeavor or whatever it's arch Linux it's so mad when somebody says that I get really mad when people call their keyboard custom when they did not build them so it's dumb anyways that's what system 76 is going to start out with is the keyboard they plan on bringing the rest of their stuff in the future the thing is they're going to have to retool all their laptops to have that really weird enter button iso layout so that's going to have to take a little while for them to do I assume that the desktops will probably follow pretty soon because the desktops they won't have that problem although it's weird because they're selling they're going to sell that that launched keyboard with the ANSI layout instead of the I mean or maybe they're not I don't I don't actually know the picture that they showed on the news item was the ANSI layout not the ISO layout or whatever so no idea I have not been keeping up oh egg okay anyways it doesn't matter let's go ahead and move on to the main topics which is is the AUR overrated so um this is a conversation or this is a topic that stems from a conversation that I had on the on my discord server this past week and I don't I apologize for the people who were in that conversation I've totally forgotten all of you I apologize for that um well there were so many I can't remember their names but anyways um we were talking about the AUR and I have been a staunch advocate and very vocal um you know supporter of the AUR for well for several since I started using Arch Linux like it's because it's the reason to use Arch Linux and um so a lot of people have come back and said that hold on a second they're having they're having dammit tech cut you started something when you said nano in the chat now everybody is like oh this is better than that if if you're watching the video version look at the chat right now it's fantastic anyways um the AUR somebody came back and said that the AUR is overrated simply because if you use another distribution like Debian or Ubuntu or fedora whatever are there really that many packages that you can't get on them that you can get in the AUR and it got me thinking about it like when I use Debian I can think of exactly two packages two that I couldn't get on Debian that I could get on Arch because they're in the AUR and one of them was Alacrity uh and I'm pretty sure the other one was Polybar and Polybar has since been added to the Debian repos now there's only one and that's just me I mean that's a personal experience so it made me start thinking is the AUR actually all that it's cracked up to be so Tyler your thoughts on this yes and no I think the AUR is all it's cracked up to be for for most cases like yeah it's a super easy way to get almost any piece of software like I have been did you know that instead of like the only way on Linux to get the unreal engine running on Linux is to download it from source and build it on your own system there's no pre-compiled binary supplied no nothing except through the AUR that's the only place in Linux where you'll find a pre-compiled binary that you can just well it's obviously not pre-compiled but like a compiler for where you don't have to do anything you just run it that's kind of nuts that's the only place you're going to find it as far as I know I don't know if anywhere else it has it so I don't know I think the AUR is a fantastic tool for getting obscure software that you need in an easy fashion that doesn't mean it's hyper-reliable doesn't mean maintainers are bountiful it also doesn't mean that it's secure but if you need an easy way of getting software for definitely obscure pieces of software AUR is fantastic it's probably the best resource in Linux for getting that stuff the point about obscure pieces of software is really good because when I talked a few minutes ago about my experience with Debian that just really kind of applied to like the everyday packages like you know Firefox is there and OBS is there and all this stuff is there like the mainstream packages for the applications that are like off the beaten path like the one I'm going to be using for the thingy of the week this week it's in the AUR but I guarantee that it's not in the Debian repository it's just not it's a brand new application right so it's not it's going to be things like that where the AUR shines because anybody can add it's so easy to add your code to the AUR because while I guess it's moderated it's not that moderated and you know pretty much anybody can do it with like the Debian stuff you have to push that up to Debian it has to be included in their repositories approved and all this stuff and then it filters down into like Ubuntu and the next minute stuff right the process of going through that is or at least from my very naive understanding of it seems more tedious than putting something into the AUR and just put it there and the moderation of it is such that really they only check and make sure you're not you know malware or you know spamming the AUR I think they really just check to make sure that you're not spamming I don't even know if they do checks to make sure you're not malware I don't know honestly I know they have like a mailing list or something where people discuss that kind of stuff they don't really pay that much that much attention to it but the thing I love about the AUR is that the idea behind it is so good like a single place where you can get all of your applications like and I know there's someone out there saying right now well isn't that the idea behind snaps and flat packs kind of but really snaps and flat packs were more developed because of the containerization stuff right that's the reason why they were that's not the idea behind the AUR the AUR is more the idea of a community centered Ubuntu had a very I guess it wasn't Ubuntu but the ideas behind PPAs were where people could create their own repositories and maintain them and have software in them and the idea was good because everyone could create their own PPA so what we ended up with was an entire ecosystem of PPAs where some people were really good maintainers, some people created the PPA and then never did anything with it ever again they never updated it for new versions of Ubuntu it was a mess that's the reason why one of the reasons why they created snaps was because they and then kept it closed source so people couldn't create another snap store all different snap stores whatever the idea behind the AUR is similar to that of PPAs but instead of everyone creating their own repositories which you can actually do you can create your own repositories, Disertube has one I know a lot of people have their own repositories for the barge but for the most part everyone seems to have gotten behind the idea that it's better if we just have this one gigantic ass repository full of software and because everyone has gotten behind that idea it's allowed you to have this ecosystem software that is very much unparalleled anywhere else in the Linux world and it's kind of awesome I think that's the reason why the AUR is just so good it's focused on ease of use that's really it like most of the people that want to harp on how insecure it might be it's literally just a place to go and actually I think someone commented something pretty much exactly like this but I'm trying to see who it was but I can't see it. Grim says Admin said it's essentially just a place for ARCH users to get together and share builds of packages for each other that's pretty much it it's just created an environment where getting a piece of software is very easy like that's it and I think that's why a lot of people say it's hard to leave it because ease of use is not everything but there's definitely something to be set for it that and you don't realize how much you like they are until the first time you leave it and have to build something on your own like because so if you're new to Linux there's a misconception that building software is really hard it can be tedious and it can be full of brambles there are definitely situations where you try to build an application where things just don't work because you don't have the proper dependencies or there's a sim link somewhere that's wrong that definitely happens but for the most part if you build something on your own you can do it however there are so many different ways of building a package so if you download a REST program it has to be built with cargo if you're downloading something that's built you know coded in C you have to use make or make make I say whatever it's called make package you know there's tons of them like there's zip and there's you know remake, mason there's a dozen of these things Haskell has one nobody uses it but they all have them and that's the biggest problem that's the biggest benefit of the AUR is that you don't need to know what the program you're downloading is built in there's no need for you to know whether or not it's a REST program or C or Haskell or Python or whatever you know it's just paru-s the program and it takes care of it for you it still uses the same tools it still uses cargo or whatever but it will then just build it for you you don't have to worry about doing any of that stuff plus it pulls in all the dependencies in there that you need to build the program which is exactly what you would want it to do and build without the dependencies so it's very very fanboyish but AUR is just so good so it leads me to this question someone I don't remember who and I'm not going to scroll up to find out but someone says that it's been very hard to replicate on other distributions and most distributions haven't even tried to replicate it here's the question so good why hasn't everyone done it the version of it I'm not saying everyone should use AUR just more why haven't they created some version of it what do you think well I don't know ARCH has a massive community and they wanted to do it and they did it there's like most communities that are not ARCH are divided on whether or not they are but then again at the same time Debian Debian is doing their own AUR competitor Debian user repository or whatever so that's a thing I don't know I think most other distributions have their equivalent or solution for something like the AUR that they deem fit for what they like Gen2 has overlays which are practically the same thing Blackway has something similar too that builds it whatever I think in general most distributions agree that having maybe not centralized at least having a method for their users to get together and share package builds is pretty good it's a good idea and it fosters a very diverse software ecosystem but I don't know especially with Linux because you can't really make even though we all do it it's hard to make sweeping statements about Linux that are ever going to be even slightly true because there's so many different people and so many different ways to use Linux so many different implementations ideologies behind different distros so there will always be some that think anything like an AUR is just a net negative but I think most distributions agree that having something at the very least like the AUR is the official thing unfortunately most of their solutions seem to be focused on snaps or flat packs well I mean if you think about it it makes sense too because it's pretty easy to implement like you don't have to lay any groundwork you just go flat packs they're both really supported like there's a lot of applications in those repositories and it's not as if they're horrendous like I know we make fun of snaps like you know a lot but I mean I wasn't crapping on flat packs or anything but like from a development standpoint like if if you're going to try and come up with a solution to the problem of not having enough package builds going around or enough software diversity like flat packs is an easy way to get a massive amount of software on a system and from a development standpoint it's not lazy but it's much easier than the other options building your own is easier than building it's easier to take someone else's and then build your own and sometimes it would be better than what you would do like I mean if you got a really small team makes sense too well yeah and I mean like you said small team plus resources takes you know money right all this kind of leads me to ask the real question that we should be answering is what the hell is going on with app images the thing about app images is like in theory app images should be the thing we should all use because it's just the program you click on it it should run that's the way in theory it should work right and that sounds fantastic like you download alacrity click on it it's already there it's similar to what mac does when you download something from mac you can drag it into your applications folder it's there that's how you install it there's no wizards there's no getting into the terminal and waiting for snap or flat pack or there you are to build something you just click on it it runs what I don't understand is how they've took that vision and messed it up for so long now they've seem to have fixed it now like now they have like a app image store or whatever where you can click and it will install properly but for the vast majority of the history of app images the way you would have to do it is you open up your file browser dolphin or crusader in my case right click on it make it executable and then click on it but the only place then you could actually launch that program was from the file browser you can install, you can launch it from rophy or your system menu you know that's the vast majority of the time that app images have been run that's how it worked so I guess I don't like app images could have won like if they hadn't messed that up right I mean that's really the thing about app images is like they're not really doing anything wrong now like it's it's weird like I I want to accept that they've gotten a lot better but also at the same time like man if you could have done it any quicker would have been great for you well they're too late now snaps and flat packs have become they've propagated themselves amongst the Linux distributions when you build a Linux distro you choose between snaps and flat packs or none at all you don't choose between snap flat packs app images for most distributions aren't even an option they don't even consider them I mean I'm sure there's going to be a I mean that's something that you do like that's all up to you the distribution itself doesn't even give most distributions don't even acknowledge app images existence until you want to install them well I mean just look at the most recent version of Ubuntu they took out a dependency that app image required in order to even run I'm sure they didn't do it because they wanted to screw over flat packs but they did do it also hello doc well it's just that's how irrelevant they are to them like they're just like we didn't even notice that it broke anything because who uses app images? if they had been able to fix that they're things sooner if app images had been made so that there was always a store that you could go to that's the first thing that snaps and flat packs did right is they had a store right but also when you install a snap or flat pack it shows up like a regular application you know and that wasn't always the case for app images and that's where they went wrong so the reason why I brought up app images is because it could have been the thing right it could have been if they done it right it could have been the thing nobody would have been talking about they you are hold on a second I'm going to let the dog back out there you go oh you don't want to leave okay dumbass dog hi you want to be on the podcast? okay I'll just go I'll just leave you be the you'd be the host okay sorry about that alright so this weekend dog treats the lynch cast was special guest missy pretty sure anyways it's just I don't know it's one of those things that I always think about is because we love the AUR so much that it just feels like they should have something like this throughout all of Linux and of course there's the whole thing about you know the lynx developers in the world of lynx development can't agree on anything right so they're always going to be doing their own thing that's the reason why we have nine different package managers that's the reason why we have you know all this stuff so the pipe dream of having an AUR that encompassed every piece of software that worked on every lynx distribution was never going to happen it doesn't matter that the AUR is the best thing that ever happened it could literally have been created by Jesus and there would have still been you know half the people who would think well fuck Jesus you know build my own thing you know I'm going to hell for that but still you know it's just the way Linux works so I don't know but that's the reason why I always come back to ArchBase distro it's like I haven't gone without an ArchBase distro in years now because the AUR is so good it's hard to beat like it's just it's one of those things where it makes your life so much easier and I mean especially when it comes to you've gotten when you've gotten past the tinkering phase which by the way can last decades long time in a computer like but once you've gotten past your tinkering phase and you're no longer really interested in tinkering with programs and stuff like you just know what you want and you really don't give a shit how quick and dirty it's done like AUR is literally that it's perfect like it's not the AUR is not perfect but for a easy use case it works it's the best it's so good so here's the last thing I'll say on this and this is just like a general like PSA if you've never used ArchLinux if you started out on your Linux journey and if you've only used Ubuntu or Linux Mend or something like that I highly recommend installing an ArchBase distro it doesn't have to be vanilla Arch you don't have to go down that rabbit hole install Arco, install Endeavor, install Gerudo, whatever, Manjaro even enable the AUR give it a try and you'll see what we're talking about like you'll see that think of a do that stuff and then think of a piece of software that you've had to build on your other distribution and then search for an AUR and when it's there you can just install it I mean it's like magic I mean we've been talking about AUR but you said something a minute ago the AUR is not perfect, that's exactly right maybe we should talk about that for a second AUR has flaws because it's so moderated in a meh way overarching it's very easy for bad stuff to slip in but the biggest problem with AUR is that anybody can put their projects slash programs on there and then never update them again like old stale ass packages is by far the biggest problem on the AUR because especially for people who develop developers who develop primarily for Ubuntu or whatever they were probably asked hey can you put it on the AUR and they said sure I'll put it on the AUR and then they forgot that they put it on the AUR so their thing was never updated you'll see stuff on there that's really old now it's not something that happens all the time the main packages and stuff they're always going to get updated because those are usually maintained by someone in the community not the developer themselves but a lot of like libraries and stuff those can get really stale after a while I think it's oddly enough a kind of double edged sword with the AUR like because of how widely known it is and how easy it is to get software put on there you have many obscure packages but in having many obscure packages you're obviously going to have many of those obscure packages completely unmaintained and or just horribly maintained so I don't know like it it's one of those things where like the AUR has flaws but typically most of the flaws come with the territory like it's by nature you're going to have them no the major repository is immune to this problem it's the thing snaps have sometimes just snap packages on there or just going to be the oldest stuff you won't get the new version of Spotify or something like that because they didn't update it on snap PPAs obviously had this exact problem forever only it was way worse than every PPA was out of date and because there's not one single central place to find all the PPAs Google you're looking for a program Google it you would find a website random joshmo's website blog and they would have a link to a PPA or a tutorial where one of the steps was you had to add a PPA to your Ubuntu system and you do that and either you would find out that the PPA was broken and not compatible with your version of Ubuntu or it had all these programs that have been updated since 2008 you know so the PPAs had the problem I'm sure Flatpak has similar issues like there's no repository out there period that can escape the problem of old packages because when a developer develops something and they do a fantastic job they then have to do the hard part developing the application is easy it could be written in Haskell it's still easy compared to the idea that when you want to distribute your program you have to distribute it for the AUR you have to distribute it for Debian Ubuntu Gen2 OpenSUSA Fedora we talked about this a couple weeks ago and we asked if there are too many Linux distributions the reason why there are old packages on your repository is because there's no developer out there unless they have a huge team they can manage all these separate packages and that's the reason why developers love Electron like they can distribute one package everywhere and it works just fine you know what I mean and it obviously gets way worse when they're creating a program that is cross-platform so if they had to they had to distribute to all of the Linux distribution repos and then Windows and Mac and you know OpenBSD whatever it's I am so glad I'm not a developer those poor poor people it's it's got to be rough and I think it's one of those things where half of the community would be fine with picking one standard and letting developers just produce for that one standard say flatback was the standard like half of the people would be fine with that the other half would be not unacceptable we need options we need everything oh my god Tyler I made a video a few days ago about how Calamari should be the installer for all Ubuntu distributions yeah I watched the first like 2 minutes of that and I was like oh he's definitely going to get some shit for this the comment section on that is other hilarious there was one guy I was like how dare you say you're going to force all Linux so first of all I did not say we should force all Linux distributions to do this I just said they should do it he said how dare you take Linux is about freedom and you're never going to how dare you call yourself a Faust and Linux advocate when you want to take away the freedom of Linux distributions to do whatever the hell they want like I'm sorry okay I'm astonished how many people were completely against that idea well I mean it's one of those things where I have been astonished by how many people are completely like developers that I've heard from in Linux that are completely against standardization and that's insane to me like I can't understand being a developer and being against standardization like that's it makes your job 10 times easier and then if someone deviates from it like and there's breakages like it's not your fault like I think that's kind of exactly where everyone wants to be developer wise especially if you're a developer have a standard you would think that that would be where everybody would want to be but apparently that's not true because just the response to that video I can understand like I can get I understand that Linux and open source is about freedom and doing whatever you want that is the primary reason why you open source something because you can not only yourself but other people to do whatever they want with the code within certain licensing terms and agreements that's the whole point if you take away anything like that and make something standard you take away some of what makes foscrate however my argument I'm going to agree with myself here for a second just let me finish the point against what I just said is system D system D is a standard okay it doesn't mean to open RC and run it in sys6 vnit and all those things those things all exist you can use them but system D is the standard every major linux distribution uses system D it doesn't mean that you can't do whatever you want with linux and open source go create your own init system be whatever you want to be be the perfect happy little snowflake it's perfectly fine system D has become the standard it's the same thing with Xorg there are distributions out there that don't use Wayland or Xorg they use their own display servers nobody uses them but Xorg and Wayland have become the standard and that doesn't mean that hasn't taken away anybody's ability to do whatever they want it's just you know those things have become standard that's why I was disagreeing with your original statement because it's like no it doesn't take away anything from freedom at all you still have the freedom to deviate from the standard I think a lot of people misinterpret wanting standardization in linux for wanting one thing and everyone has to use it no that's not what standardization is standardization is just there's one thing that most people agree upon that we use to make life simpler if you want to be cool or try something different go off the beaten path do it it's kind of like a warranty we're going to cover you as long as you stick to the book go off the book I'm sorry we can't cover you and I don't think there's anything wrong with it that doesn't I think we all have had like xboxes or some pre-built computer that has a warranty void if remove sticker on it and you've removed the sticker and like been edgy and gone in like upgraded your ram or something it's not like you don't have the freedom to upgrade your stuff do something different I don't think anyone's advocating against that it's just it's not a bad thing to have standardization where we can all agree on one thing and use one thing as a group I mean it's not even all agree on or all agree it's more that the vast majority of people have decided that this one thing is the best to use I shouldn't have said all I meant most at least most people it happens in Linux all the time SystemD is a good example Xorg is a good example and just because those things exist I mean the reason why those things exist and the reason why people have settled on those is because they work really freaking well like they have proven over the course of 20 years that they are stable somewhat secure I'm not going to so much include Xorg in that but you know they can be easily used in a variety of different circumstances no matter what distribution you're going to create and where standards are important is where it's a tool that every distribution relies on so things like SystemD Xorg libraries and stuff like that but also just because we have those standards just because we have all agreed or most of us have agreed that SystemD is the way to go doesn't take anything away from the rest of the Linux ecosystem where we can't agree on shit 500 different desktop environments 300 different window managers we don't have to have a standard tiling window manager for all of us Disertube is very happy over there in his Haskell House Bill of Haskell and his Xmonad Tyler, you are the BSPM king now I prefer I3 you know TFL I3 I know a couple of people in my community, big Q-Tile fans just because we have all used SystemD we still have these other places where we can all be unique happy little people you know? I still have the void gang that runs through my discord every now and then does a quick drive by if you said it we still have the void gang who streaks through my discord every once in a while I say they do drive bys because they come through and pop off shots and chat about other distros well you know it's better over here on void like to some weird comment like completely offhand and then I'll get like six people that roll up and like all just draw out chats like how using void is just better than whatever's going on in chat the one in my state and then they don't chat for like a week they're like completely AWOL it's the best but like I mean I don't think that having anything as a standard means that you'll have like everybody using it you're still going to have people that go off I think that people worried that if you create one standard and everybody uses it that everything therefore will become windows like I think that's what they're worried about I think the biggest worry on linux is where software becomes dependent on the standard but the ironic thing about that is I have a perfect example of how that fear being irrational I use private internet access originally I had to use a system D distro to use private internet access my VPN because that's what it was hard coded to you like it only worked with system D they're a proprietary company that doesn't really give a shit about linux like most of their clients I would assume are mobile and like windows and Mac users because they're pretty mainstream so I'm going to assume that most people are you again statistics wise it would assume most people are using other clients than linux for their VPN and they've made it to where now I believe it runs with like open RC and run it now 99% sure they added it for open RC and run it I'm pretty sure they might they might have added another one as well but they're a proprietary company they don't care about FOS at all and they're still focusing on getting in support for non standards so I think standards just give developers a good starting place to target and then they can build off of that and add support in other areas I mean if you're going to target linux especially now with it still being an extremely small market share if you're going to target them at all you want to be targeting at least at the get go the most people that you possibly can in that small market and so standardization helps with that well that's definitely one thing that is true is that if we had more a little bit more standardization like if we had a package system that ran all the way through all the distros we'd have so much more software from big corporations because one of the biggest turn offs from like adobe and microsoft have to support every single x even right now well it's not even supporting each different one if you're a big company and like you've spent a lot of money getting your brand to the point that it is now you don't want an inconsistent experience like you just don't it's unacceptable and from a PR standpoint it's unacceptable so you need a consistent experience if every linux distro is completely different then that's a bad thing because you have a completely inconsistent experience but if most popular linux distros have standards that they stick to then for the most part you have a consistent experience and there will with linux there will always be we are so focused on freedom you're never going to have a completely consistent experience especially when you've got that one user who's using linux from scratch on their desktop computer I'm sorry but you can't know you're always going to have an inconsistent experience somewhere but for the most part that's way better that at least gets a developer interested let's say I gave you a hammer I have a hammer two hammers on the table one is just a regular hammer it's just a regular hammer you can hit a nail it's always going to hit the nail but I give you another hammer that has a magnet in it that moves around like randomly and so about 80% of the time you can hit a nail which one would you want to buy the regular hammer okay now let's say I say the regular hammer that just works all the time costs $10 and the other one's free and you've got like you're a millionaire which one are you going to get I mean you still want the one that works but exactly I would choose the free one exactly but if you have if you already have the money and everything and you're already essentially for this analogy we're talking about big companies here when they already have a massive market share they've got a lot of success if they're going to make any deals or buy anything or get invested into anything they want the best solid opportunity they can and standardization gives them that opportunity to have a consistent experience something that people actually will want to use and not just cause them a lot of bug reports I mean not everybody remembers it but Rocket League was a fantastic game that had great native Linux support they dropped the native Linux support because it was a very small amount of their user base but they generated much much more bug reports than any other of their user bases so percentage wise it didn't make sense for them to take it to a super small niche that generated more problems than even a larger user base just last thought on this to this day Steam still only officially supports Ubuntu officially out of the box Steam will not provide you with support if you use a different distribution and they have a console right now that doesn't run Ubuntu it's just one of those things anyways we have to move on moving on AWR is great by the way kind of meander off the point but it was a good conversation so every week Tyler and I have a section that we put at the end of the show that we have creatively called thingy of the week now we could have called this any number of things like app of the week, pic of the week things like that but those things were taken copyright claims and all that called thingies of the week Tyler what is your thingy of the week at a human creator um it's absolutely the most fun little tool I've ever used it's awesome it's obviously for made in mind with using an unreal um and again you can get unreal on Linux for those of you who are using Arch and using the AWR I believe on because it's in the AWR you actually don't need a github account or I think you'll still need your Epic Games account to still use the engine but you won't need just like a github account so you can link it to get the source code I'm pretty sure the AWR package takes care of that for you it's pretty nice but the metahuman creator it's a way of making extremely unbelievably realistic human models and it's just really cool you use it straight from the browser and they connect you to like a front end where they have like an NVIDIA GPU farm or whatever that runs all their instances and you design characters and then it's tied to your Epic Games account so when you load up the engine they have a bridge section and you click on that and you can actually just import your metahuman straight into unreal and they're fully rigged you've got like a facial control so you can like give them different facial positions you can animate them talking it's really cool it's really fun to mess around with even if you're not going to download the engine or anything I'd highly recommend just for like 30 minutes go play around with it it's super fun yeah that's what I've been messing around with a lot lately that's not cool mine is a game and it's a new one it's written in python, it's a terminal game it's called poket and basically what this is is a complete auto ripoff of pokemon and you can play pokemon right in your terminal it's um it's text based so it's not going to be like graphically intensive or anything but it's really really cool it has like weather and it has the ability to obviously manage your the things you catch it has a story that you play through it is really good and really well thought out it is a pokemon you know you're playing pokemon when you're playing it it also feels a little bit different because there's no color not a lot of color anyways you know it's just it's fun if you liked pokemon, you'll like this it's in your terminal it was also featured on Unix point which is where I found it I haven't played a lot of it yet but I'm going to be playing much more of it right after the podcast because pokemon is the shit like seriously I was playing pokemon before you were born Tyler I'm just going to put this out there it's so good so good anyways so that is the linux cast we uh again we record this now every friday around three o'clock p.m eastern time if you want to join us live and in the chat I know we don't pay too much attention to the chat while we're talking if we did it would be four hours long so I apologize if you're in the chat and you said something to me I probably saw it I was just talking about other things I do apologize for that but I do appreciate everybody who watches this live you all keep us entertained because I usually do read most of what's in the chat but anyways fridays three o'clock p.m eastern time we usually bullshit for about 20 minutes before we start recording and then we go and tell about 445 or so usually anyways so if you want to support me on patreon you can do so before I go I should take one to run the scroll of all of my current patrons again patreon.com slash linux cast thanks to all of these people who have supported me over the last year and a half I really truly do appreciate it I'm not saying the names anymore I do apologize to everybody who supports me and expects me to say your name but there's just so many of you it would take a long time and I'm not good at it I'm just not some of the takes that I had when I was recording videos and saying the names it took me like half an hour just to say the names because I would mess up on when Uncle Bonehead joined I messed up his name like it's not even hard to say but I definitely messed up everything when he came in and it just required me to start over again so anyways thanks for all your support all the patrons if you haven't already make sure you hit the subscribe button