 Is that chat a very interactive session for you here today? As you already know, if you just came to us from our networking tables. All right, so we're going to go ahead and get started. All right, so welcome, everyone, to JSA TV and JSA Podcast, the newsroom for tech, telecom, and data center professionals. I'm Candace Siphos, and on behalf of all of JSA, we thank you for tuning in to our virtual roundtable today. We have a very exciting topic, a very important topic, connecting the unconnected with digital infrastructure solutions. I'm going to have to say that word a lot, so I'm going to get it down now. I'm thrilled to report that we've had over 160 registrants for today's discussion, and I'm sure many others are going to be watching via live stream. We are live today. We're streaming live on LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitter, and JSA.net. Certainly, as you can tell, a lot of interest in this topic, so we're going to go ahead and dig in as quickly as we can, but before we do that, forgive me while I rattle off a couple of quick housekeeping notes here. So our first 100 registrants for today's roundtable have received lunch delivered right to their door, or if they chose a gift card. So please enjoy that if that is one of you, if it's not one of you, and you're having a little missing out a little bit, then just know that the key to that puzzle is to register early, so you can actually go to JSA.net and register for the upcoming roundtables we have them slated through the end of the year right there. So we will see you next time as well. So we want to hear from you, like I said, and make this roundtable experience as interactive as possible, so please do add in any questions that you have, any comments right into the chat there on your screen, and our panelists will be sure to get to those if we have time for them. So we would love to hear your questions. And if you can, if you have time to stick around right after this discussion, this will be about 45 minutes, and then we'll kind of round out the hour by jumping back over into the networking portion of this app. So we'll join those virtual networking tables immediately following the conversation. So it's a very kind of fun and unique opportunity to talk face to face virtually with other event attendees and speakers. So we will see you back there to network a little bit after this discussion. So that is enough for me. Let's hear from these excellent panelists that we have slated today. So we will begin by just kind of rolling around this virtual table for introduction. So folks will just let us know a little bit about their role, a line or two about the organization they're with, and most importantly, why today's topic is meaningful to them. So we'll just kind of go in alphabetical order for this one. So Jezebel, Marisa, Dina, and Brian. So take it away, Jezebel. Hello, everybody. I am Jezebel Gilmore. I am the Chief Commercial Officer for ConnectBase. And we are a SaaS platform that provides digital information and commerce marketplace for telecommunication services. I'm glad to be here. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Jezebel. Push it over to you, Marisa. Hi, I'm Marisa Mitrovich. I'm the Vice President of Public Policy for the Fiber Broadband Association. In my role, I work with federal and state governments and do a lot of interaction with broadband leaders and community leaders to help find policy solutions to close the digital divide. Fiber Broadband Association, we have close to 500 members. We have providers of broadband, manufacturers of fiber, manufacturers of connectivity products. And so we represent pretty much the entire fiber optic ecosystem. Our mission is to accelerate the deployment of fiber broadband to ensure digital equity and enable every community to leverage the economic and societal benefits. And so it's something I believe personally in. It's the mission of the organization I work for and it's the topic we're gonna talk about today. So I'm very happy to be here. Thank you. Hello, everyone. My name is Dina Perry. I am with Windstream, kinetic boat Windstream. My role at Windstream is VP of government affairs for the state of Georgia. I've been with Windstream two years. Our footprint is in most of rural areas across 18 states. And I work with the state elected officials, state agencies, local governments to work on behalf of Windstream. And I'm Brian Vo, chief investment officer for Connect Humanity. We're a nonprofit impact investor advancing digital equity, which basically means we invest in digital infrastructure and all the things around it, literacy, device access, et cetera. Particularly targeting low income, rural communities and communities of color. Excellent, thank you all. Thank you so much for being here. We're so excited to start this conversation. I'm thrilled that we have such an incredible panel here representing many different angles of this conversation. So let's start with some stage setting first. This is a really critical conversation that of course our community has been having for a long time and yet it's still constantly relevant. Just this week FCC chairwoman Jessica Rosen-Warsall issued a notice of inquiry to start an evaluation of broadband deployment across the US. I just wanted to quickly read this quote she said, in today's world, everyone needs access to affordable high speed internet, no exceptions. It's time to connect everyone everywhere. Anything short of 100% is just not good enough. And of course, we've seen the pandemic only served as a greater spotlight on the digital divide. So the question is where are we now? How would you define the current state of network infrastructure currently? What are the main challenges and gaps that do still exist? And we will start with Marisa. Thanks so much. So I think we're at an exciting time as you just mentioned. The pandemic really showed us the importance of every American having the best connectivity possible. And at Fiber Broadband Association, we know that's Fiber connectivity. Right now about half of the country has access to Fiber Broadband, but that means we have 50% more. And we're in a position to close that digital divide and achieve digital equity. So regardless of income, zip code, race, education, everyone will have an opportunity soon if we work together through communication, through proper planning to bring that connectivity. And I think it kind of, and I'll talk about this and come back to these points throughout our conversation today, but I think there's, first, we have to connect everyone. So in the past, especially in rural communities because of a lack of population density, you haven't, there hasn't been enough opportunity to compel private investment. We now have public funds that are gonna help us do that. So I think we need to make sure every, we use the grant money, the public funding to get to every American with the best technology. But once that happens, and these are, these issues are kind of connecting dots, it's also they're simultaneously happening, you also need to have affordability. And it's something we have to be really seriously thinking about. It's not just having the ability to connect, you have to be able to pay for that service. And then finally, we're always looking at how do we achieve digital literacy and adoption and making sure you have devices. So there's a lot to take on and consider, but I think, especially with the amount of people who have signed up for this, just today, this lunch discussion, I think people are thinking about this very hard and we have a really good and we will be successful. Well said, Marisa. Anybody else wanna jump in on that question? You don't have access to capital has been the biggest challenge for internet service providers before COVID. And even after really, I mean, there is a lot of funding available, which is wonderful. We are in a very exciting time and perhaps maybe a unique time and with investment that is being made at the federal level, which is really great. There are match requirements that goes along with these programs. So again, capital becomes part of that issue. And we are talking about areas that are low population density. So the cost to build to these locations are very high in some cases. Obviously that ranges, where you have those high cost areas that becomes a real challenge and additional to that. Identifying those areas, which there has been a lot of mapping effort gone forward with that. I know that Georgia has been working on that issue for three years. They have their own Georgia broadband available amount where we have gotten to an address location specific as to those who lack access. But really capital and then once the access is there, affordable services and continuation of programs like that will certainly help in solving and completing this issue. I feel like that was a nice setup for either Jezebel or Brian, if either of you would like to jump in. Which is on, I think part of the broader question of the current state of affairs, that some of the rhyming that I'm seeing now is like, it's certainly an inflection point, right? Especially with all the public money that's coming in now. I think the fundamental question is, what relationship do communities, particularly the on and underserved ones right now, what relationship do they want to have with their digital infrastructure? And it fast forward five, 10, 15 years from now, I can see us having very similar conversation we did with Rose and Bridges about 20 years ago, right? And who owns it, who's maintaining, who's paying for what? It feels like a very similar trajectory. You know, just to add to what everybody already said and everybody's making such great points, I think that some of the challenges is not really truly understanding where the gaps are, right? Where we see the gaps today, there are obvious locations, right? In some of the rural, super rural areas, but there are also areas in the densely populated areas that does not have good service from broadband service providers. And those are not always known. And those areas are often the more economically challenged areas that really need to have better broadband services. So, you know, having the better understanding of what are the service abilities for every location that we're trying to cover is truly important. And that's how we're going to be able to really making the right investment in the right areas. Yeah, that's so well said, Jezebel. Again, I love how, you know, everyone here is kind of adding different angles to this very real challenge. So we will move on to the next question. And Brian, I'll pass this one back over to you. So the question is what are the most effective strategies or initiatives that have been implemented to bridge the digital divide in terms of network infrastructure? Are there any notable success stories or best practices that you could share? Yeah, unfortunately, no one size fits all, right? Every community is different. And yeah, needs and certainly stakeholders are different. I think what, from the impact investor side, some of the similarities we've seen in successful approaches. First one is a very well-organized community, whether that is, you know, a set of nonprofits representing community voice and advocating, whether it's a municipal or set of municipal champions. And I think organizing on a few friends. One is getting that data that Jezebel was talking about. And it's not just the natural ass inventory type of stuff, but it's a lot of the softer elements too. What extent is there, what is the underserved population but also what is the appetite, the need? How many people might actually subscribe? Like beyond just demand surveys, right? Like really digging into it. And that's usually best done by trusted community organizations. So I think there's a big opportunity. Where it's been most successful is when, you know, there's kind of that top-down approach, whether it's MUNI or ISP-led that connects with that community voice. For us, that's really translated into more believable take rates than just getting an off-the-shelf demand survey of, you know, end of 100 households. I also think that has helped communities prepare for, if not rebut, some of the inevitable challenges that we've seen, especially with some of the public awards. And even if there aren't any challenges, I think that level of transparency of data on what money is where, who needs what where, whether that's literacy or devices also, also comes in trying to weaving together that patchwork of grants, right? Like a little bit of art off here and here, but then there's a bridge nowhere. How are we gonna plug that gap with what sources of money? So I think that's been one of the biggest things for where we've seen success, you know, that community-driven part of the voice data aggregation and then that transparency to really say how are we gonna plug the gaps? Thank you, Brian. Yeah, I love that visual weaving together patchwork of grants. Marisa, is there anything that you wanna add there? I feel like you have such a great view of what's going on in our community. Sure, you know, I agree a patchwork of grants, but also I would say, you know, I think the question, the most effective strategies or initiatives, I mean, I talked about it in the beginning, but right now with a bipartisan initiative that started a couple of years ago through the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the opportunity that we are gonna have $65 billion going to broadband. I think understanding, you know, having our policymakers understand that they need to invest is a really exciting initiative and I think it will make move the needle. It is going to make a huge impact. You know, I can say we, Fiber Broadband Association, we have so many amazing members who have done a lot in the Fiber space. One case study that comes to mind though is EPB, which is a provider of internet service in Chattanooga. And they, when they connected everyone with Fiber, in the first 10 years, they saw a $10.7 billion economic impact overall for the community, which is unbelievable. In the first five years, they saw about 9,516 new jobs and everyone has 25 over 25 so symmetrical service, minimum, which I think is very important right now because, you know, in this conversation, we're using upload capacity, not just download capacity and we're using and requiring, you know, our needs are changing. And so that I think is just one great example of how public funding can work. And so I would point to that as a good example. That's incredible. Those numbers are amazing. Excellent. So Dina, over to you. Is there anything you wanna talk about from the kinetic side? You know, what has worked for us in the last couple of years, Georgia has been very active and using their capital projects fund and also some of their state fiscal recovery funds to go ahead and invest and create programs and have already invested over $600 million utilizing data to be very efficient in where they invest those funds. And what we have found is working in those public-private partnerships. A lot of times a public-private partnership just means that you're working together jointly. I think someone has already mentioned the fact that, you know, when you have the community leading it, not only are making sure that you are connecting and you have the connection made, but then you can go on and use in those community resources for digital literacy. And also looking at, you know, the affordable sub-scriber fee. So I think that where you have those communities that lead and are working with ISP and understands what it means for their economic development, which goes to workforce, their ability to remote work, certainly digital online learning, all those things, healthcare, you know, it just makes the community more robust and be able to access those through online. More robust also plays into the economic development side of, you know, what you're trying to drive for your community. But again, on the digital literacy side, you utilize those community resources to create digital literacy programs for those areas that may not have had. Excellent. Thank you, Dina. I appreciate that. And, Jezebel, I know, you know, ConnectBase is accelerating so much rural broadband and other initiatives through the Connected World Platform and getting folks that critical data to make all of this happen. So if there's anything you'd like to add as well. Well, to me, you know, this is what we're all about in making that data visible and available to not just the developers that who are looking to develop into these regions to provide the services, but to, you know, people like Brian who are looking to invest into those regions to have an understanding, right? Where can I, where should I be putting my money to work? But to speak to some of the things that Marisa and Dina both brought up, which is the sustainability of the service, right? The cost of the service and sustainability, it isn't just up to the end user to support the usage because, you know, broadband also has commercial uses. And so when you think of that, most regional service providers does not have the ability to actually sell beyond their own constituency, right? The people that are within their region. And what connect base allows is for them to put their footprint and their services into a platform where other service providers can consume those services from them so that it becomes sort of a automated sales branch of your services. So adding to additional revenue source to a service provider also can support those regional service providers to have long-term sustainability and I think that's another way that can be effectively supporting the regional service providers to develop additional infrastructure. Yeah, and I feel like it sets us up to kind of roll right into our next question, which I was just going to stay with you, Jezebel. I think you've touched on some of this already, but what role do you see emerging technologies playing in narrowing the digital divide and improving network infrastructure? Are there any potential limitations or considerations to keep in mind? That's a great question. And I think that where we want to start with that is truly understanding our reality on what are the gaps in broadband services that we have. The broadband services that we see, it's not just so obvious in the rural areas in the middle of the country. There are a lot of underserved areas in highly populated locations that people just don't know. And those areas are often the last fortunate, some of those regions are below poverty in where they need broadband to help elevate their economic and social status. So, and I think that have we have the understanding in the reality which requires data to really truly understand. And that's actually something that connect base in me myself is so personally invested in, to get the reality, get to the truth in understanding, who needs to have access to the additional resources? Thank you, yes, excellent. Start to that. And I thought maybe, Marisa, you might jump in here. I did just see the Fiber Broadband Association announced its proof of concepts demonstrations that are planned for FiberConnect 2023 last week, I believe. And I was reading through that, it's amazing these technologies and initiatives that you all kind of are privy to at Fiber Broadband Association. So I'd love to hear your thoughts as well. Sure, well, Jezebel is absolutely right. You need data and you need to really look at needs and how these technologies are being used or will be used moving forward. So at Fiber Broadband Association, our tagline is where Fiber leads the, when Fiber leads the future follows. And so it kind of like really rolls into this whole proof of concept display we're gonna have at FiberConnect down in Orlando in just a couple of weeks. August 20th, our conference starts. So really soon, I'm excited to see it and participate. But some of our members are just, they're looking at, how do you get ready for the next generation of applications? And we don't know. People are innovating every day. People are coming up with, we're not sure. I went to the CTA or CES last January and just like, it's unbelievable how we're gonna rely on, how technology is gonna rely on internet connectivity. And you need reliable, you need reliable connectivity. You need to be able to scale, you need capacity, things that Fiber Broadband does. So additionally, we need to look at, how small businesses are gonna be able to take advantage of Fiber and how it's gonna impact markets. We're gonna look at just ways, pond infrastructure, how is that gonna make a difference? So there's all these different technologies and I encourage people to look at our website and attend our conference if you have the ability because I think it is really exciting. We know that needs are rapidly changing. It's not just today's needs. It's really what's being created today that we're gonna have access to tomorrow as soon as all this Fiber deployment happens. And so, we're collecting data and we're, it's trial and error but I think what we know is there is a backbone of infrastructure that Fiber will provide that will allow us to be able to accommodate the newest, greatest innovations. Yes, very well said. Dina, Brian, would you like to jump in there before we get into, I feel like the next couple of questions are kind of the bulk. We'll have a lot to say there so we can roll right into it unless you'd like to chime in on that one. You know, we are seeing so much investment in solving for this right now. And so we probably won't, it'll be years before we'll ever see this type of investment again. This is an opportunity to really place that future-proof infrastructure in place. And so that would be the one comment I have is that we do want it future-proof to the extent that we are possible. And so where are those technologies that can enhance that, that we know and in fact, we'll play along way in that. I know the electronics for fiber, there's technology updates all the time with that. I think Melissa was just speaking to that where it does maximize the capacity for fiber. So that's what I would have to say about it is we have an opportunity right now that we may not have for years to come with these investments. And so to be smart with those and to be efficient and effectively them which goes into identify the gaps, take advantage of technology but also knowing that we need to future-proof these networks. Awesome, thank you, Dina. So I think we'll roll right into the next question and we'll start with you here, Jezebel. So from your perspective, what are the key factors contributing to these disparities in network infrastructure especially in rural or remote areas? Although I thought you made a really good point that we can't only focus on those areas. So how can policymakers, industry stakeholders, communities, you name it work together to address these disparities? I think there's, there are many contribution factors to this but they're top two that sticks out to me. One is the lack of competition, right? So having a duopoly is the same as having a monopoly. And so that prevents from having gaining better quality of service as well as having well-priced, reasonably priced service, good economics on that service. And so to me, that needs to change and how do you understand the competition in a region because how do you know that if you built into the region that you are able to be able to compete with just one service providers or six, right? Because you don't want to build into a region with six other providers that's already there. You're not going to gain any business. But if there's only one other service provider, then you have a much better chance. So in understanding that, knowing again that comes down to data, right? But creating that competition is key in making sure that we can solve for some of that divide. And how do you gain access to the funding to support your development in those regions in need is important, so in creating that competition. And then the next thing that I would say is in understanding the gap, it isn't just about building the regional fiber, it's about having the ability to connect them to something that's meaningful. It's if you just municipality building fiber to the home, but doesn't have real diversity of access connected to it is also a challenge. So from that perspective, knowing the difference between long haul and middle mile into the last mile, and how do you make sure, how does the policy make sure that all of that work together to ensure the serviceability to the end user and the fair economics to the end user is a key contribution factor to success of broadband. Great, thank you so much, Jezebel. I think I'd love to hear from you, Brian, on this one as well. Do you have a very interesting vantage point on this? Yeah, I think from the, if we're talking about what's driving some disparities, I mean, we've said data a good amount of time, so I won't belabor the point. But I think the other one is, I've seen a little bit of a binary effect of insufficient local advocates or stakeholders trying to drive it and then on the other end, too many and too many cooks in the kitchen, who really is driving the process. I just think back to that one saying, it's like, if you wanna go fast, go it alone, if you wanna go far, go together. And for the investments that have really been successful for us, the deployments, it's been the latter, right? Where a lot of folks across the community, whether you're public, private or social sector have come together to rally around it. But not just on the take side of it, right? Like post-construction, but also in the design. And so I think it will be slower to get that type of crew assembled and aligned. But I also think this is where fundamentally what we're doing with digital infrastructure, it's not just another product to sell, or it's not just another widget. It's very much ingrained in the fabric of the community, almost literally, right? Like if something's trenched. And so I think part of that conversation really goes to the communities to see, can they be a bit more intentional about the relationship they want with that fiber? So many communities we've talked to, so desperate for it now, they want the fast part, rather than the far part. And same thing with the ISPs on the other end of that. But I would say, I think the dynamic we've seen more often than not has been how much is the community or the community giving up for fast, right? And there have been a couple of deals closed where I was taming through and it's on the return side for the operator and if not their private equity sponsor. It's pretty aggressive. It's on their side, kind of a home run. And then on the community side, I'm asking them, well, what guarantees do you have? Do you have any transparency to the accounting or the reporting on the piece of construction, the passings, who's gonna get lit up? And so, how long is the IRU and you're not getting anything right? So I think they have a lot more to bring to the table in terms of making that a bit more of a two-way street. And on the flip side from the ISP side, it might impact the aggressiveness of the returns. But I think for us, this goes back to the earlier thing of if you're deeper rooted in the community, there is longevity there. And if I wore my economist hat for a second, you can mimic elements of a monopoly, but rather than through a supply-demand construct, it's through trust, right? So I think that's the lack of that has driven more of the disparities. The last thing I would say is, again, every community is different. It's gonna need a different model of connectivity for each one. And so what we should be incentivizing, especially on the policy level, is the breadth of ISP business models and technologies that might be needed for that. And so when I look at some of the grant rules, they don't always create that level playing field, right? And as much money as Bede is gonna be putting into the system, structures or requirements like the letter of credit, we know from the get-go, like without needing to see the first application in yet, we know it's going to disqualify many small, medium-sized businesses, many community-centric ISPs that aren't as well capitalized as the really big players. So I think from a rules of the playing field perspective, I mean, that's driven a lot of it over disparities over the last 20 years. Thank you, Brian. And Marisa, did you wanna jump into that next? Sure. I think, I agree with Brian that, as we look backward, there are a lot of lessons we've learned and we should really take those lessons to heart. So as it relates to competition, first you have to have someone providing that service that everyone wants. And so I go back to the fiber deployment, how important it's gonna be because we know that without the funding, you can't deploy it in these very hard to connect because it doesn't matter if you're a small or large, it is expensive and you do need to make sure you're gonna have the customers and they can pay. So I think about some programs we had, and not to say this wasn't a great program because it helped to begin to give internet connectivity to people who never had it. But when the Connect America Fund came out in 2015, minimum deployment speed was 10 over one and 25.3 was the goal. Well, by the time the companies who had that funding started building, the FCC had already said 25.3 is what's considered served. So we kind of just, we got a really late, it was like we were behind the ball already. And that's not equitable. That's not helpful, fertile. That's not helpful when deserved, no matter where you live, the best possible speeds. And so I think the approach NTIA has is right, if you can achieve fiber, do fiber, because we know that that's the best technology to get capacity that will be a long-term play because we won't get that investment one more time. And then I also like to say, when we think about how the community's coming and Dina has said this, and I think we're gonna probably talk about this a little bit more with the rest of the conversation too, it's permitting and having the leaders in the local communities understand. There needs to be transparency. WinStream has been a great leader in these conversations. How do we get everyone to the table and community leaders and making sure that timelines are reasonable people or adhering to them. There's staff at the table to process applications. And we have heard some great things. One example I'll just point out is in Louisiana, they have the gumbo grants. And when the gumbo grant, one of our members got the gumbo grant, everyone in the community came to the table, the state broadband director and the mayors and the council people. And it was like in the company who was gonna provide the infrastructure. And it was like, yeah, that's a lot of time and a lot of people, but I think that really helps as you're trying to deploy. And so you do get to ensure that the voices are heard and you have a timeline. People know what they're getting. I love that example. Thank you, Marisa. Yadina, would you like to jump in on this one? And I think that goes back to the public-private partnerships and really understanding what each partner's role is. So if you're working with communities and they're their partner, how do they enable the bills to happen and a reasonable amount of time which that goes to the permitting piece, right? And oftentimes you find communities who have limited resources. So recognizing that, keeping those conversations and that dialogue going on in that partnership to understand what the bill looks like and good lines of communications and relationships with those communities because you're really trying to achieve the same goal. And that is to connect the citizens of those communities as quickly as possible, effectively as possible with the best service to make it equitable for all. And so just recognizing that and working with the communities because permitting can slow it down. I mean, it's not enough to have return on your initial investment but you need to sustain things as well. And the sooner that you can build, it's in both the interest of the community and the ISP, the sooner you can get these built, the sooner you have that return on investment, the better you can sustain these projects and that relationship just enables that. Thank you. Yes, I love the focus on sustainability and long-term thinking throughout. It seems to be a common thread throughout. I wanted to ask this question that came in from the audience. So Eric Contag, thanks for sending this question. He asked, with so much investment coming in, will there be enough crews and equipment to build these networks or will scarcity drive up installation costs, putting pressures on capex and returns? You wanna take that? I'm happy to start the conversation on this one. The Fiber-Broadman Association, just in our space, has identified, and this number, this ebbs and flows, but maybe we need 205,000 fiber technicians. People just despise fiber, right? There's gonna be a great opportunity. And I think each company and each provider of broadband is looking at how do we make sure we have the workforce. That's why it's really important that there are training programs. The Fiber-Broadman Association has one that we've stood up. There are other training programs out there. We know that there are people who are gonna be graduating, so we have to figure out how to communicate with youth and make it relevant. And we want them to know, they love TikTok, how does TikTok work? But also, they can contribute to making that happen, but also they can contribute to something greater. And I think that's a really important message that you are making an impact in the community. It's meaningful work. You're giving back when you do this broadband deployment. It is changing lives. And I think we should talk about it a little bit more like that. And I think it will start to resonate, but I do know people are talking about workforce challenges. Will we have the workforce? And back to our favorite word of this conversation, data. I think we are all looking for a little bit more data to help really ensure that we can meet the demand. Excellent. We can all go to Jezebel for that. And we've got a couple of minutes left. So I just wanted to ask the last question. So how can we ensure equitable access to affordable and reliable internet connectivity for all individuals and communities, regardless of their geographical location? So if you wanna talk about any policy recommendations or funding models that you believe can help accelerate progress in this area. Dina, would you like to kick this one off? I think one of the current programs that I think would be such a benefit to citizens would be the continuation of the ACP program, which is the affordable connectivity program, which subsidizes subscriber fees. I think the continuation of that would be is very critical for the continue providing affordable subscriber fees or assisting with those subscriber fees for those that need the eligibility that program was originally designed initially. It had a broader audience, but certainly focused on students and the need that students needed to be able not only to have access, but be able to afford that access. And so just keeping students in mind and knowing that this will continue just because we may be outside of the pandemic that there's still going to be that affordable issue that students will face to continue to have that type access in their home for especially, you know, that K through 12. All right, any final words? The 22nd edition as we wrap up here. I just want to add that, you know, the way to fund services in these regional service providers, it isn't just the regional market, but there are larger service providers that are looking to acquire services, you know, to fund the smaller service providers and having the ability to actually sell to those larger service providers is another channel of revenue to help sustain these regional deployments. Excellent. I would like to nominate something that Brian said earlier as kind of a tagline in addition to the data for this conversation. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. I love that. So thank you so much to the panelists here. Unfortunately, we do have to wrap up so we can get back to the networking tables, but this has been an incredible conversation and we're so happy you could join us. So, and also a huge thank you to everybody who joined us, whether it's here, you know, on this app right now or, you know, watching the live stream or watching this later. So thank you everyone for your insights and viewers, if you were the first, one of the first 100 registrants, then we hope you enjoyed your lunch. Make sure to everyone that you visit jsa.net to see our upcoming JSA virtual roundtables. We have one of these every few weeks. So for our next roundtable happening August 24th at 1 p.m. Eastern, same time as today, we'll have a special greener data edition. We'll get into kind of a different kind of sustainability, talking about power and cooling innovations to shrink the carbon footprint of our network infrastructure. So that is a wrap look out for the playback of today's roundtable coming soon across all sorts of platforms, JSA TV, JSA podcasts on YouTube, iTunes, iHeart, Spotify, probably many other places. In the meantime, please join the panelists and I back in the networking lounge. Happy networking.