 My name is Arjun Tom. I'm a television minister in charge of government and social innovation and youth empowerment. And I want this to be a totally interactive talk, so you can have any lines that are connected to this wonderful employee internet. Please either scan this QR code or just go to, ooh, it's trying to upgrade iOS. Let's do this one. Right, so yes, please scan this QR code or go to this website called Slido.com s-l-i-d-o.com and enter without a pound sign, 0-1-1-1-0, which is to this stage, here it is, it's a zero. So either through QR code or Slido.com enter the numbers and people can just ask me anything if this is literally asking me anything on this interactive chapter. And the way it works is that if you are in a chapter room, you can ask me anything anonymously, or if you prefer, with the student name or your real name. And if you see a question that a lot of people have asked that you also wanted to ask, you can press like. And the question was the most number of likes will appear on the top of the projector screen here. And the newest question will appear on the bottom so that we can have a real low conversation. And because we don't have microphones here, so feel free to just at any time raise your hand or without raising your hand, just start to speak. And then we can have an audio channel conversation as well. And so I'm very glad to see there's already people starting asking questions. And so I'll demonstrate how that is going to be possible. So you can like that question. And as you like it more, it will flow on top relative to other questions. And this question that you are asking, what is the message on my t-shirt name? So can I ask a raise-up on this? Have you heard of the Sustainable Development Tool or the SDGs? I think it's okay, more than half people. And so the 17 Sustainable Development Tools is what those colors mean. And it makes that the United Nations around the year 2015, after consulting with more than one million people on this planet, maybe on other planets, I'm not sure, but at least on this planet, asking what are your preferred future for our own future for this planet in the year 2030. And again, more than one million voices. And after they collected those more than one million voices, they ended up sorting it into 169 concrete targets that every nation developed or developed that agreed to get there by the year 2030. So that's called the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals, or Global Goals. And so the message here says, I want to help. Meaning that in Taiwan, we have to figure out the particular interesting ways to meet the Sustainable Development Goals together. And I'm happy, as always, to share these methodologies with people around the world. And so that will be the topic, actually, of my talk. And as I go on with my talk, feel free to just start asking random questions. It doesn't have to be of any relevance to open government or sustainable development or social innovation. Literally asking anything. And so there's two people now asking what is Taiwan's digital ministry do, that's an excellent question. So I joined the cabinet two years ago as the additional minister. At the additional minister, I had a compact another contract with the government. It was literally crowdsourced. When I joined in October 2016, it's after one month of consultation. No, it's not quite UN SDG. I didn't have one million people. It's more like 2,000 people or so crowdsourcing what they expect the additional ministry to do. And at the end, we ended three core principles. It's called radical transparency. Everything I can see, I chair, I publish on the internet. People really want to know how is that like to be a additional minister. And so I publish to the internet every meeting that I chair, every lecture that I give, every lobbying, you know, the lobby is going to meet me and then I publish the whole transcript and every media interview as well. And I'll talk a little bit about that. And radical transparency is the first one. Let's say when it's voluntary association, I give no orders. I take no orders. There's a purity, co-ordinated, facilitative ministry. And the third thing is location independence. So without further ado, I'm going to be showing my office. So this is my office. It's located in Central Taipei, just near the Timbal Flower Market that died in Central Park, is our Central Park in Taipei. And this is called the Social Innovation Lab, or SIL. The Social Innovation Lab is also crowdsourced. You may see a pattern here. After a month of crowdsourcing, more than 100 social entrepreneurs and social innovators could create this place. For example, the soccer field that you see here is drawn by people with Down's syndrome. It turns out that they have a very geometric view of the world that enabled them to see the world with a different lens than I do. And it's very visually appealing and they share with that particular calendar their unique contribution to this space. And the space, again, because it's crowdsourced, people ask for a lot of things. They ask that this space has a resident chef. And it opens until 11 p.m. every day, including on the weekends. And we share a lot of food, a lot of event activity. As long as your activity relates to one of the most, you can use this value for free. And also, they ask the Digital Ministry to be here every week. So every Wednesday, if I'm not troubling a boy, I'm literally, this is my office hour, every Wednesday, I'm here from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. and anyone can come and talk to me. So social workers, rough sleepers, people working on universal basic income, people working on building an embassy for extraterrestrial beings. We have a lot of very interesting people with very interesting thoughts. And as long as they agree on the practical transparency that's to say, publish the entire dialogue online, I welcome everybody to the social innovation line. And that includes non-human beings. For example, these beings are self-driving tricycles. They call themselves persuasive electric vehicles or PEVs. They came out of Boston, out of MIT, in Yala. And that is because one of the creators of these PEVs visited me and saying, you know, we really want a place for people to tinker with our PEVs. And I'm like, sure, just come to this place. So this place is literally a living lab. Every week, the features may change based on people's contributions. And so these PEVs are one of the contributing features. Now, people here, of course, converted self-driving vehicles. And these are not exactly news now. We see people doing drugs, doing drone delivery on those ships, things like that that are kind of commonplace. But on the other hand, not many people actually have interacted with this hunt with the self-driving vehicle. And so in Taipei, when we introduced these self-driving vehicles, we did it in a way that's intentionally harmless. These are pretty slow. They don't harm anyone if they run to billions or something. And it's also a concrete social issue because we're close to the timpul flower market. And there's a lot of elderly people who just came to the flower market by some pots of orchids and things like that. And it gets really heavy. And so before they finish strolling the market, they have to get home. They get tired and things like that. And so these companion animals, to put it in quotes, just accompany those people strolling around the timpul flower market. And so you can just put pots of flowers on it as you just continue on the flower market. And by the end, you can hop out and drive you home and things like that. So basically we co-domesticate with these non-sentient but moving beings. And in a way that is what we call open innovation. Meaning that the source code, the hardware, the schema, the data that you collect is all open so that if you want to change, for example, the red light here that's signified it doesn't know what to do, into a rainbow color or an emoji or a cafe or whatever, you're free to do so. And so this brings personal back to personal computing and this brings the norm, the social norm of interacting with these self-drying beings into the highs of the society. So this is kind of what the additional ministry does. It's basically showing everybody the possibility of additional technologies, not through a lens of technology but through a lens of care creation. And we do so because previously, in the battle days, in the last century, people kind of think the government is kind of this road. And with, for example, the economy minister, that's one of the most organized people around business. And another ministry, maybe the environmental ministry, has another minister that organized people that cares about the environment, for example. And the road in between, this is the civil service, the people in the civil service that are largely anonymous, that absorb all the tension, that try to arbitrary something that is fair. And so this is the classical public administration model, which is completely broken nowadays, by the way, because we have the social left, we have the hashtag today, important social innovation. So people don't need counselors or ministers to organize themselves anymore, it's the right hashtag. Tons of thousands of people have just organized out of nowhere, and to enable social change. And so this is the old organizational duty of the government is leveling. And the second thing is that we cannot have one council or one ministry for each emergent issue, for distributed letters, for AI, machine learning, for self-driving vehicles, and so on. It doesn't work like that way anymore. And so we're switching into a different governance model. And this is what I learned. It's the first political system that I learned when I was 15 years old. That was 1996, and it was in the second year in junior high, just second year in junior high, and it said to my teachers in the principal saying, I just found this new thing called the WRI Web, where the researchers are just publishing their preprints for peer review of everybody. And I just sent them an email and they started co-creating knowledge with me, and they don't know I'm just 14 years old or something. And so I don't have to go to the top of the university or finish my class or whatever, I just go down this WRI Web thing and we can do research together. And so I want to quit high school, I said to my teachers, and start creating knowledge afterwards. It's a reading about the cutting edge technologies and knowledge that was created 10 years in the past. And surprisingly, all my teachers agreed with me, and so they basically faked my attendance records and they just went off and started some such enterprises back in 1996. That's during the top of the world. So it makes me an optimist in the flexibility of bureaucracy. If you have a really good reason, then you can convince the bureaucracy to kind of make you better. And so when I dropped out of junior high, I entered into this community that's still around today. It's called the Internet Society. The Internet Society basically governs what I call the Internet. But we don't call them rule makers, we're not law makers, we don't push out laws, we push out what we call requests for comments or RFCs. And that is how Internet has been governed since its very beginning. And very interestingly, it works on the legitimacy of this community on radical transparency, voluntary association and location independence. So no matter where you are on the planet or on the planet, if you can connect to the Internet and say, I'm interested in making a new Internet for you, you can just send an email and you're part of the law makers of the Internet. And the Internet itself doesn't report to any sovereign agency. It doesn't report for example to any of the nations. Or even to the UN ITU, which for years tries to absorb us and we resisted that. And so the compromise was that we felt a annual UN Internet governs for every year. But now the Internet still is climate sovereign, we don't have a navy, we don't have an army, but we don't report to any other sovereign entities either. And so what Internet governs itself is called collaborative governance. We just keep asking two questions. We have a lot of people, a lot of stakeholders, but a lot of states, different positions. But are there some common values we call them rough consensus in Internet governance? And even those common values, can anyone deliver innovations that deliver those values without leaving anyone behind? And we call them running code. So there's a RFC that says explicitly, we reject presidents, kings and voting. We just embrace rough consensus and running code. And that's what I learned when I was 15 years old. And that's how the digital ministry works in Taiwan just by keeping facilitating these conversations around common values and delivering social innovations to the benefit of everyone. And so I can use some concrete examples but I see that there's going to be much more questions coming, so keep rolling in and feel free to raise your hands or just start speaking anytime. So how do I help Taiwan's laws and regulations keep up with new technologies? How many people here are aware of this idea called fork, fork to fork something to people? That's great. Yes. So a fork is a software development jargon. It means you take something that's going to a direction like a road. You keep something that's there but you take it to another direction that's called a fork. So anything that is a government service that is a website that is something that is not protected by the copyright can be subjected to a fork and I would use one concrete example here this is excellent. In Taiwan we have this movement called zero and it's called the slogan is called to fork the government. And to do so it's very simple. You can see for example the environmental ministry you don't like it you don't like how it's visualized it's environmental numbers or for example the legislative or for example the national budget. It doesn't matter. So other government services in Taiwan is in a website that has in.gov.tw the same here and in other places. And so the people in the gov.zero movement whenever you're fed up with something they just create a shadow website that is exactly the same URL exactly the same address but changing an O to a zero. So you don't have to Google for it you don't have to search for it. All you have to do is to change an O to a zero and you get into the shadow government. And so back in 2012 the first was budget GZOV.tw and when you go into that particular shadow government website you see a visualization of the national budget and any time anyone can just click into the part of the budget that you care about and have a real conversation about what you feel about the budget and how what's your suggestion about anything like that and because Gov.zero people we all relinquish our copyright when doing forks like this on the next procurement cycle if this popular idea gets support from the civil service they can just merge it back so forth and merge it back in into the official website. So budget GZOV.tw is now actually part of our national service now you could go to join that Gov.tw that you see all the 1300 ministries projects and all the budgets KPI, spending, procurement research, whatever is all online and anyone can just type in any question to ask the people involved and the civil service will just respond to you publicly and so this enables people to have a direct interaction with the public service and the public service doesn't have to answer like 40 different phone calls and 50 different emails every day because they can just respond publicly and so because this is a really interesting meme it's the buyers of mine so it spreads to other places so just last week GZOV.IP that's an equally GZOV movement just gets started and so whenever we go to places the GZOV movement, the fork and merge just emerge on that particular position now the question is about loss and regulations so that too can be also crowdsourced and forked and merged and this is a meme system that we installed that takes effect starting January this year it's called the sandbox system a sandbox system is that anytime, anyone inside one can go to this website and say I want to make this social innovation that makes the society and economy better but now I'm being blocked by this regulation or this law and I think if you change this regulation or law in this way of work things will work so much better and then we actually do a kind of matchmaking to find the municipality or anyone that is willing to try with this new regulation and or law for a year and see how that works and so you get to break the law for a year and see whether this is a good idea or not and we also have responsible authorities like if you're working on the platform economy there's international development council if you want to do some AI banking that's impact the financial ministry or if you want to do self-driving tricycles that are flying for example the ministry of economy takes care of that particular application and so this is actually the world's best because in other parts of the world it's usually the minister of transportation taking care of those self-driving vehicles but in Taiwan it's the minister of the economy so for them, drones and ships and cars are all the same and you can have cars that fly or ships that go to the land or whatever and you get to break the law for a year and if the society really likes it if all the stakeholders agree that this is a good idea then that new regulation and a law just become our new regulation and people generally like the idea that we want to experiment a little bit more you can scale out and scale up the conversation to test for another year to two year max but by the end of it if the regulatory change or municipal rule change it would just get merged back and learn something from that now if it fails if it causes some externality if the society doesn't like it well we thank the investors for paying the tuition for everyone we all learn something and there's no innovation so the next innovator can build upon the data that was shared by the previous experimenters now if this is a law change the MPs may want more time to deliberate the exact waiting of the law for full deliberation around which time that experiment including the business model continues so this is essentially a monopoly local monopoly during the MPs deliberation by the end of it the law would have been changed your preferred version of the law would be made into the continental system, the regional system and competitors will enter the market now the key question here is two questions first how do we know what the society what the municipality or the first nations mean and second is that at the end of the sandbox experimentation period how do we know whether this is a good idea or not so that are two questions when introducing the symbol as a governance model for the first question it's really really simple in addition of getting people to meet every Wednesday from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. I also tour around the territory of users so for example here is the east part of Taiwan it's called Hoardian even more remote places like the first nations in Thailand they can also video conference and so I just regularly go to those remote rural indigenous places and see how things are like there and maybe stay for a day or so but as I have the conversation with their community leaders with their elders and so on we always have a broadband connection back to Taipei to the social innovation lab because in Taiwan broadband access and anywhere in Taiwan if you don't have 10 megabits per second it's my fault and so because of that we always are very reliable at least 10 megabits per second back to Taipei and so all the ministries related to social innovation are just the social innovation lab and remember they enjoy this wonderful playful geometry they enjoy this wonderful you know food cuisine made by our resident chef in a very relaxed playful mood and see through my eyes how is it like to be in that particular municipality or rural or indigenous place and so previously when people here said we wanted the government to do something to relax the policy to introduce a new policy and so on some type of minister of economy would say oh we'll have to consult with the minister of the interior we'll have to consult with the ministry of tells them what they are and so on and five months would have passed before anything gets responded but now because all the ministries are in the same room anyway so they cannot say that anymore and because they see the actual habitats, the actual place where the social interactions take place they become very innovative and this is coupled with the idea of radical transparency because as I said so this enabled them to innovate previously in the battle days if they innovate in the public service and it works out really well the minister always get all the credit and if it doesn't work that well the minister always blame the public service so that's a pretty bad deal for the public service but now with radical transparency it's the other way around if things work the local people here actually see the face of the public service who prepares this innovative approach of solving things everybody see on the transcript who prepares these innovations and the journalists always can get in for interview with the public service which is no longer anonymous but if it doesn't work out well first the risk is kind of absorbed by the additional minister because fires are now in the only minister in the world doing this kind of thing so we can always blame Audrey public consultation and public multistakeholder creation effort anyway so nobody can say they are being in treatment or things like that it doesn't work because everybody can discuss that into a simple conversation now the second question is that how do we nail whether people like the idea or not how do we form a consensus but for that we use AI powered conversation we use AI as a simply data so for example this very picture is our first time deploying this system called polis.pl.is so in polis very simply put this case is when Uber first entered Taiwan using people or drivers with their professional drivers license and kind of evading facts and so on and it caused a lot of controversy back at the time people were really devised and we just looked at mainstream media so we devised a way for everybody to use drivers, unions, whatever to go to this website which is very simple, it shows to you a avatar in blue and relative to your facebook friends and family and twitter friends and so on or if you don't sign in then just a more famous people and how your feeling around the same facts is among the people that you know so basically we use the focus conversation method that's actually invented in Canada that says first we crowdsource the facts, everybody can contribute their experiences and evidences and things like that and then with that aside the months for feelings people just have to begin their statement with what you end up or I feel that, I think so for the same fact one can have a different feeling, I can feel angry happy and it's all okay but then after a few months of automated facilitation that usually goes for one month but actually resonating feelings begin to surface and people start to get rough consensus and at the end of it we can hold ourselves to account by using only the one that aren't reaching consensus as the agenda for this consultation that's always live streamed and so for example around all homes because you may see one particular sentiment from one fellow citizen they can click agree or disagree and as you click agree or disagree your avatar will move mathematically inclined here this is K-means clustering to find clusters and principle component analysis to find the most divisive and the second most divisive sentiments and so this has two effects first these are not nameless enemies or trolls right these are your friends and families and you just have to do a few differently and that's all okay and the second thing is that we don't have a replete because we find that if we have a replete and people just keep attacking each other's credibility or those cat pictures or memes or whatever right but because we don't have a reply button if you see after pressing a few agree or disagree things that nobody else has risen you can just you know post a new sentiment for other people to resonate or not to with and so basically we always end up with a shape like this and this is very different compared to mainstream media or even mainstream socially if you just look at mainstream media sometimes you just see those divisive statements as if that's the entire social opinion or population because those drives clicks and that drives advertising and so on but because this is a community-owned open-source conversation platform that doesn't have a replete button only agree or disagree kind of have that overview effect and people just compete not on getting more polarized views but actually getting more resonating views that everybody can actually agree with and live with and so every time we get a shape like this and we take the ones that was the most consensus as that agenda for face-to-face consultation that's also a live stream over the internet and so every time we can just get those consensus and go back to the innovators and say here is what people feel about your quote-unquote disruptive innovation and in the case of Uber people feel very completely that they have to have insurance, professional driver's license registration and so on and so forth so now Uber is legally in Taiwan but they have to conform to all of those cross-source rules that's based on people's shared sentiments so that it has to be social innovation and so we run this kind of consultations for the past three years now that we're getting pretty good at it that you can raise a equal issue that has 5,000 signatures and we guarantee that the multiple ministers will give you a point that has after 60 days of consultation period that is moderated sometimes using AI, sometimes using human dynamic facilitators the most of the time is both so this is how we do regulatory for creation with the need for social innovation there's 5 people who want to know how can you elect and tell us more than to be brought globally during a time where democratic institutions are weakening populism is rising and animosity rose first I reject this view I think it is only like that if you just watch mainstream media which has an agenda of portraying the world in this way but every time we run a consultation like I just showed you we find people actually have much more income than they thought that they have income and so this is how a reflective space versus a partial sensational space can view people's personal exception on their own realities around overlapping realities and so how to build partnerships well first of all we export the GovZero model I already talked about that and second we also use innovation methodologies and so this is a really interesting example I want to share with you so this is a map of Taiwan of course but also of the air quality of Taiwan in Taiwan that's another of those GovZero projects this is called the GovZero Air Pollution Observation Network and as customary with GovZero right next to the name it's a call to action that says hey set up your own measurement stations and so these are really cheap it's like 100 Canadian dollars or it's really really cheap anyone can set up an air quality sensor school or your balcony and so people just measure the air quality but it's not just individually this is also connected so the researchers at the Academy of City in Taiwan run this cloud thing that you can just automatically upload those sensors so you can edit lines very easily see the digital lighting the air quality in Taiwan and also of course how many people have volunteered this is very unique especially around our region of the world in East Asia in many jurisdictions as the questioner has said animosity at the state more often than not is afraid of the civic space of people's ability to assemble to express themselves and to organize and so in some places around our part of the world the civic space is shrinking and so when I go to for example the UN SDSA and the Sustainable Development Network meetings or through a robot participating in other UN meetings many other ministers in East Asian countries tell me that there will be very afraid of this kind of thing happening it will not wait until more than 2,000 people have gathered around in this kind of citizen size when it grows to 20 people they will keep it very close to watch on it when it grows to 200 people they will try to poach the leader into the government and if they refuse maybe they could disappear this is not a joke so but in Taiwan we take an opposite stance when we say citizen scientists efforts like this threatening the legitimacy of our environmental agents because obviously if you have two different numbers one from the government one from the networks that you participate you're going to trust the networks even if it's less precise so we say we can't beat them so we just join them and so the government does three things first we look at the places where citizen scientists are not that active and good complementary air measurement points second we manufacture a higher precision lower cost sensor devices for people to work onto this IOC networks and third we listen to those people who say they really want to have a air quality measurement device here right in the middle of the Taiwan Strait because people really want to know whether the air pollution comes domestically or from abroad but they cannot do it even drones runs out of battery even 24 hours a day but we can do it because we're running with a national plan our renewable energy so we'll have a lot of wind turbines that generates energy in exactly that spot so we can participate in the citizen states are gathering NELA international part comes in this is open innovation all the tools are here and the hardware requires it's very simple like Arduino, Raspberry Pi anyone can procure that anywhere in the world and so the end result is that without signing any state-to-state MOU or anything like that citizen scientists around the world you can just download the kit and start running of course you can also keep your own network of data analysis back to Taiwan and so we have a a network called CI-Taiwan which CI stands for civil IOC and collective intelligence and so this is a collective intelligence network that we contribute to climate scientists to all the people who want to understand meteorological data water quality, earthquake prevention disaster relief and things like that to the world we have one website for each of those cross-industrial actions CI, collective intelligence we have AI-Taiwan for augmented or artificial intelligence we have SI for social innovation so on and so forth so the answer to that question is that we just not just solve our local social environment problems we also offer the way we solve it for free, open or equivalent platforms for everybody to just use the fruit of the labor and so I'll use another example so this is the water quality water resource and we have a lot of donations from the Taiwan Water Corporation that shares its data it's called SCADA it's a system that measures the pressure and the flow rate of the water types and because of their sharing of the data people who are specializing now have after three months of co-creation the presidential hackathon to measure a way to basically interact with the people who hack those leakage they tour around Taiwan, listen to the water pipes and discover new leakage on average one year or so before after a new leak happens but now with machine learning they release that to one tenth of the time so that's a quick win and because the innovation is open they discovered this web and said they didn't use to have a water shortage problem but now because of climate change they now start to have this problem with other places around the world and so their choice is either by this proprietary Israeli software solution or they can co-create with Taiwan in an open way and so they invited the social innovation team from the presidential hackathon including the Taiwan Water Corporation for three months right after our event and they just provide their own water measurement flow and pressure numbers and to our people and then we just co-create new algorithms that help them to get back with water leakage so this is what I mean by warm power it's not just one or two sustainable different challenges but it's rather done in a way that in constant availability of reliable data enables the sectors to trust each other the people running the citizen science air box numbers they trust our government will not change the numbers why because they check into a distributed ledger before uploading to our network so if you try to change the numbers people in the blockchain world will know that we changed their numbers of course we won't but this increased accountability and trust in the numbers and then we've offered those innovations in the open to everybody so through the civil sector to the social sector and the social enterprises and social purpose organizations we spread this kind of innovation to empower everybody around the world so that people can see that technology doesn't have to be colonial it doesn't have to be top down it could just respond to social needs and I think that's going to let people see the sectors are not at odds with each other and we can work to strengthen and weaken the democratic institutions six people would like to know we're utilizing password and tools because zero how do you maintain legitimacy for example, filtering for serious answers and or preventing duplicated response well the crowd of staff this is exactly how slide it works if you see something that you don't think is a good question the best bet is not to reply it's just to propose a better question for other people to upload it and it's as simple as that in our national e-pedition platform we have exactly the same design where we actually took it from Iceland but in any case yes so we have a lot of e-peditions and next to each e-pedition we have a pro-income column that's anyone who may or may not be a citizen it doesn't matter and participate just by offering their commentary on this e-pedition and so there's a pro column and there's other songs that come column and each column you can't really reply to each other if you don't agree with the sentiment post it on one column your best bet is post something on the other column in your honor to upload it the crowd regulates itself and we just harvest the top entries on both columns when doing a consultation on that particular e-pedition and so I hope that answered the question because it's always the collective intelligence can be earnest if you design a space so that everybody just adds something to it without taking anything away if you design a space so that people can sew each other out if we had adopted a visual design yeah the initial draft had a visual design that would proportionally show a green bar as longer and the red bar as shorter because there's 200 people in each column and 616 on the other column had we done it it would be a zero sum gain and people will gain the system to make their faction look larger but we don't do that in that particular system there's a lot of subtleties involved and for example in the polar system that I just showed you like this system it doesn't matter how many people are in each k-means cluster if you mobilize 5,000 people who vote exactly the same way they may be boss or something exactly the same way it's just a dot here it doesn't increase the area because we measure for diversity we measure for the difference the range of opinions but the numbers we never look at the numbers so it's not a count it is not strictly speaking a verb we're just looking at the resonance of the people's feelings and so in that kind of social design and interaction design development the crowd can just keep adding on each other's collective wisdom without taking anything away you know, how can today's youth best equip themselves to engage in the information age and the democracy of the future this is an excellent question so before joining the cabinet I served on the K-12 the basic education curriculum board and so our work will be wrote out next September in Taiwan for all the first graders and primaries during your time and in senior and in redesigning curriculum the largest redesign ever and the first redesign that includes the parents and teachers into the co-design process we basically shifted from a skill-based curriculum as is very customary in East Asia to a what we call character-based curriculum the difference is that previously people in the basic education system set up different tracks different disciplines different departments whatever that means as a junior high I don't know but in any case when I dropped out of junior high I know that if I haven't dropped out I'll be forced to choose one or two majors when I enter senior high and people will be competitive on particular tracks there's a fixed number of tracks and plots that you have to score higher or work harder or whatever that's very, that kind of bias but in our new curriculum we emphasize a different set of characters we emphasize autonomy like looking at the need emerging socio-environmental issue and just let curiosity take you over and you learn whatever that's needed to learn we emphasize communication and interaction meaning that you can stay critical but you can also work with people with different disciplines, cultures and fields and that is about common good so that you may encounter people who don't feel the same as you do but you don't use each other's as means or tools or instruments but try to find the common grounds which to build the common good and the common values so autonomy, interaction and the common good are just the new values and that's our new examination system our new curriculum design system our new capstone projects our university social responsibility the programs are a stage-based curriculum all of these are redesigned to fit into this and the reason why that we emphasize those very internal intrinsic characters is that those skill-based education system we think is not the best one when machine learning takes over it's so many augmented tasks that people over-identify with particular skills when they are, for example seven years old and they start over-identified with one particular skill to say, you know, I excel at that compare with other people and it's very narrow and maybe five years into the future AI comes and ultimate that way and does it better than any human beings then that skill then will suffer a loss of dignity and we don't want that to happen but if on the other hand people identify with the autonomy, interaction and common good which are all human being qualities then any automated tools are just going to be reinforcing your social mission and your environmental mission as a purpose this shift from skills to characters is a world view change and I realize I may be preaching to the choir here but I think this kind of cross-disciplinary and purpose-less thinking is really one of the most important things as a young people or as a lifelong learner and we have re-architected the entire basic education and also undergrad and graduate level education system in Taiwan for this very purpose because we want people to identify in their education system with the social and environmental missions not with a particular track especially not about competitiveness among individuals I think that's a broken model some people would like to know how do we go against operations exerting high view influence in guiding internet conversation through both manipulation media control etc. this is a great question and so I'm going to share with you an interesting thing that I always recommend people to install you don't have to install it but I think it illustrates that point pretty well it's called news speed eradicator it does what it says on the tin if you install it to safari or chrome or firebox any popular browser it eradicates and you replace it with a random quote it's inspiring, this one's from Adler but in any case that's it so the Facebook actually has two parts one part works like a browser where it's intentional you have to search for something type a hashtag, click your brand's profile click into Mr. Jures send something share a blog post start a live stream, whatever so you start with an intention to see what you intended to see in that sense it's like a browser but on the other hand there is this feed part which is like television it just pushes things to you and with a way to optimize for the attention span that you spend on particular news feeds so far as long as possible as you press like it figures out what kind of things will outrage you or will make you happy or make you feel addicted and start this dopamine cycle and the influence that just learns in a way that's also co-domestication but in any case it learns your habits and how it feeds information to you and so just by disabling this part that feeds into the dopamine cycle I can get to use Facebook exactly the way as I use a browser I can still use it to communicate but I close the part of the loop that generates a tobacco or alcohol like cycle in my brain and so it cannot actually manipulate my feelings around particular things I'm not singling out Facebook other media is like that and so I think in the end it is purely psychological for example in the basic curriculum starting next year we teach media literacy and critical thinking skills by having the teacher co-learn with the student instead of the teacher holding the standard authority over anything and so this is like learning how to swim in overwhelming information and not let any particular wave take one over it is important because in the previous era in the previous century people in Taiwan learned that there is a standard answer from an authoritarian teacher and things like that the companies they piggyback on that sort of message and format their message in that kind of way and it just kind of latches on the mind and go viral and influence people's polarized views and things like that it becomes very easy to manipulate people's feelings and be in authority but we found the other and people learn to collaborate in a horizontal powered kind of way that everybody gets a different perspective people understand it inclusive drives and inhalation and things like that it becomes much harder for anyone with a lot of money to exert and influence on popular opinion simply because people learn to critically think and to swim in a waves of information and things like that and then we learned that we are ourselves all media we're all self media and we can still communicate as well hey people would like to know do you have any thoughts on the concept and the usability as a global cryptocurrency so in Taiwan we use a lot of BLT distributed ledger technology I always use the term BLT rather than blockchain because I use also the term internet search instead of Google because these are technologies and these are the effect of technology the actual social guide that it delivers distributed ledger is of course new emerging very cool technology it doesn't have to be blockchain it can be other distributed database technology that enables people to have a mutable ledger to use to write things and so in Taiwan's government we use a lot of BLTs I already mentioned that the air quality measurement use BLT to keep everybody honest before checking into the national super high computing center for the meteorological measurement devices we also use it for example to track accountability for crowdsourced donations across borders so for example when Nepal suffered a flood there was a crowdsourcing crowdfunding effort by the youth of the center and people tracked the money flow by voluntarily contributing the flow of donations and how it trickled over the borders of the NGOs the Ethereum distributed ledger and that then enabled everybody to recreate the money and the nation in charge of the flow without overly dependent on any particular organization in any particular jurisdiction and also evaluating distributed ledger technology for use for example for migrant workers who sign a contract on one country but maybe arriving in Taiwan having their contract being swapped or things like that and we can use the OT to track the exact rate of the contract by compiling an algorithm based contract into tech space or visibility that's called contract law in each country and keep that on the record and you will note that for example I said use the DOT as an accountability layer and trust layer instead of a cryptocurrency layer so while we're tracking the contracts the air quality numbers the donations and so on these are still ordinary currencies these are not cryptocurrencies mostly because I think at the moment here's the transaction rate the rate that it scales the power consumption and so on these still requires a lot of new mathematical insights to really solve it as a real currency at the moment we have a swarm like behavior that we kind of saw during the DOTCOM boom days which is great but we don't have one single answer like whether I don't know what's trending now hashgraph perhaps or yield or whatever is going to be the next cryptocurrency that solves all those different tradeoffs so no we don't have a global cryptocurrency yet but if someone maybe here figures out mathematically how to solve that I for one will come and also I would invite you to file your experiment in the Taiwan Fintech sandbox because the Fintech sandbox is exclusively set up to allow for things that the digital minister doesn't think it's ready but the innovator knows it's ready and so you get one year to break the law to show the society that you're ready and see the society likes your idea your idea becomes the law and that is why we need regulatory co-creation but at this very moment I don't really see one single global cryptocurrency taking over and maybe that would be another few years some of you will like to know talent development and retention are among the most pressing issues in Canada how does Taiwan facilitate a strong sustainable talent pool ready for the future this is the great question yeah we always for the past decade or so there's a very catchy term called real inside why literally talent is flowing out and that is a any politician in Taiwan would say that was our top priority to stop the brain drain but in Taiwan we actually don't worry that much about so-called brain drain or so-called flying out because we believe in what we call the inside play a little a re-seculation of talents just in the past year 12 months since we passed the Orange Talent Act that enabled the so-called go-kart talents to basically come to Taiwan be it from the labs to work for yourself or any other company just enjoy the food and the problem is human right excellent food and we find that and if you can just stay for 3 years for a particular reason it gets renewable actually I like Singapore we actually can get a lot of digital nomads just for fun or like hiking or surfing or whatever and what we have to stop is that previously we have a previous generation of especially software developers like he's a new for example who used to work in Microsoft director of Cortana of Rich Technology he works on Cortana the same time I work on Siri and so he just went back to Taiwan a year and a half ago and bringing not just himself but also this team back to Taiwan as long as we create a better social and regulatory environment that enables the creative type C that steering new innovations makes an impact on the society and gets record plans as such and that our regulations are lost evolve to his time quickly enough for their emerging knowledge to make a difference it actually gets attracted because of the impact not because of salary or anything of course it was still offered competitive salary but the most important thing is the social impact which is why we're now seeing as a kind of AI center around our region in the world by having I think all the multinational set up AI research labs and centers in Taiwan now a very solid exchange program as well now for the other people if as part of their learning we spent two or three years just working on their local social environmental problems and make an impact on theirs they may go study abroad but when they study abroad they always try to think to apply their knowledge learn abroad to the social environmental problem that they care about as a child if on the other hand during the basic education system we isolate them from the surrounding environment or community then they don't get this kind of motivation and when they go abroad they don't want to come back which is why we developed the university social responsibility program our new curriculum and so on by having people earn credits and just by being a social entrepreneur basically during basic education and also during the college years so this is how we know HR talent and we're happy to share it in this world but on the other hand they also come back and with even more people their research teams they're the team that they care to maximize their impact on the society so people would like to know is there a way to prevent the PRC from systematically exploiting the openness of deep additions to influence talent democracy and sovereignty it's kind of simple actually very easy if you want to profess a deep addition we ask your email address and we ask your mobile phone number and that's it so it's an SMS and an email confirmation in fact you verify it's very hard to actually to get 5,000 talent-based SMS numbers without getting noticed but on the other hand we don't ask for your real name so if you are in a place where you set your concentration just is or then you want to review something or who is working for the service and you can still post under a student and you can hear in a slide though so we verify first that you have a domestic SMS number or if you're a someone with a resident certificate you can participate as well but it's tied to your ARC number which by the way we're adopting a format of ARC in a resident certificate that is compatible with our national identity system so there we're now seeing foreign people who want to stay in Taiwan to contribute even if you cannot vote yet you can that would be like 5 years of residence you can still do e-pedition you can still do purchase, factory budgeting you can still do a lot of democracy provided that you care about Taiwan and our building to be involved in our democratic institutions so that's a very simple way that we just make it very difficult for people to get 5,000 SMS numbers in one go so that the e-pedition system and people would like to know many internet platforms have very skilled user demographics who as well as is likely to be used and seen as how do you ensure that though all opinions are represented this is a great question it is true on the e-participation platform joined GOVPW of the 23 million people in Taiwan there's about 5 million active users in the quarter of the population but we do see that it's mostly young people and retired people mostly because these people have a lot of time on their hands but for the rest of the people why can we say this is still legitimate that is because a few things first when we do consultations like this this show in the beginning of each of our consultation slides a pretty picture that is two diamonds how many people here know this double diamond thing so I don't have to explain not many this is called design thinking this is a really interesting way to look at this it separates any problem into four phases discover the first divergence define the first convergence and then develop the second divergence and finally deliver the last convergence and so the middle of it is a how might we question this is a common value that everybody sees after checking in with each other's facts and feelings that is seen as a common problem that we need to solve as a quality or as a river or as a family or whatever it doesn't really matter and so using design thinking in these technologies we always say the heat condition is really just the first part it is just to discover what problems are there for people that deal that there are problems and our consultations including OS is just the first convergence to let people define how might we question this identify the common social good or social value but actually when it influences or it impacts the general population we always go to people instead of asking people go to the heat condition system or go to the heat participation system because then that would not be fair and so I use a very concrete example for example this is a petition from last May and I'm sorry that we don't have a English translation so the translation is I think the tax filing experience is explosively taxing so a very taxing tax file and we would get this petition and last May from this random person on the internet who says the tax filing experience is just awfully bad but all the members by the financial minister receives says that overwhelmingly these are Windows users and they feel that it's pretty okay and so it turns out that it's only on Mac and Linux and iPad and Android that the experience is broken because they use a wonderful technological job I have left that has been deprecated and a lot of people would just wait on the screen that says please wait while we install necessary extensions and we just linger on there forever and so yeah people really feel angry about it and so because we have a team of participation officers or PO's tasked with inviting anyone who is angry with their minister into a co-creation workshops that's literally the only thing they do that's really a problem as media officers or as parliamentary officers are working to do the participation officers sends out invitations to the hundreds of people protesting on the internet for the resigning of the minister of finance or something like that it was a large amount of negative energy but they just very simply now gets an invitation to join us in our co-creation workshop two weeks later in Taipei in the minister and the ministry of finance and so the second diamond is always in a place bringing power to the people closer to the pain if this is a domestic issue if it is a municipal issue if this is an issue in the rural lands we bring all the ministries to that place for the second time we always have a town hall that we let anyone just walk in and the additional ministry serve as kind of an ESPN anchor to explain to people in the town hall what the consultation process is what are those experts with a lot of personas trying to do and so on and so forth and people can just in their language tell me any modality if you slide out they can whisper to me they can write they can sing they can be using songs we still haven't had performative dances yet but in any case you can continue with any modality and we just turn them back into the context of this shared user journey and so this is one of the standard designs and methodologies we use when doing the table and deliver parts of the internet have identified before the text filing during the text filing after the text filing we identify their actions what their needs and how they feel and the very important thing is that again the mobilization of the numbers doesn't make a difference people have 5,000 people posting exactly the same thing it only counts as one posted note on this matter here we don't harmonize people's opinion that is to say if they say the words are explosively numerous we just post that if they say it's so glamorous I don't know what to do we just post that if people say don't bother making us feel better during the text filing process because text filing is currently not a good feeling just make it as short as possible people's feelings and contributions in a way that's maximally inclusive we actually go to places and talk to people in an ethnographic way and then bring those results into co-creation workshop and involve the people who complain a lot because they hear the most and so these are the people who are in the walking right in this picture and after four co-creation workshops we co-deliver this that looks like this and now has a 96% approval rating but even the other 4% that their ideas will be taken into account in the next year's time filing experience and we do this as a general document digital studies principle now so we're bringing this to our healthcare delivery system we're bringing it to our company registration system our social care system and the rest of the system basically making people complain and so these co-creation workshops get talks to people who are closest to the pain and so this is how we get the legitimacy not because we just let random people go see on the internet to determine the direction but just by having a specific problem but they still go to the people face to face but also in a life stream way so people can contribute from afar into this co-creation workshop the whole is just the beginning but these co-creation workshops are not up to date 8th process when I first started learning Perl is actually PPRL there's an extra 8 here in case at age 12 a language which is highly criticized as being quote a non-noise I quote what was your drive and why Perl so back when I started my first startup that was around 1995 there's no other language to program dynamic websites there's only Perl there was no Python or Ruby or PHP PHP actually stood for Perl personal page or something like that so all these were derivatives or offsprings of the Perl language so when I started there was only Perl and so now of course after having worked on the next generation of Perl which used to be called Perl 6 but it's now also called Waku Perl has really evolved quite a lot and this is kind of interesting because just as we in this sustainability we also say previously people believed that there's three sectors or three concerns in the world you can work on the economy or you can work on the environment or you can work on social solidarity that's very hard to work on three simultaneously the SDGs aren't here to remind people that if you work on any of the one hundred and fifteen nine goals in the seventeen categories you automatically reinforce what people on the other goals as well as the spirit of the SDG so the same thing as Perl and I'll work on Perl 6 or Waku because in many programming languages there's one dominating paradigm for example if you're programming in task scales then that's called functional you will think of the world as mathematical function or if you're programming in object oriented languages then you think of the world as objects that has interactions or if you work on simpler or if you work on imperative languages and things like that and Perl was designed to be what we say reconciling the irreconcilable so I'll work on Perl 6 then for Waku is that whatever paradigm you choose we're a humble designer we allow you to express yourself in whatever paradigm in the programming language that you choose to express but then we work on a ontology which is a fancy term of saying how to sort things and to let you express in what particular world view but still make people with different world views to make sense of your contributions to the language vocabulary and so the design kind of informed my thought process of reconciling the different sectors of public, private, and social are the different concerns environmental, society, and economy and think of ways that are just reinforcing the partnerships among those looking different but actually working on them and things so I think Perl has changed my brain I think for the better if you ever would like to know has Obany's decreased fund investment in tech development regardless of whether it's offset by crowdsourcing and open contribution this is a great, great question so for people who are economists or interested in common here because I don't have a lot of time to go into the economy of this but there is the book by my friend also economist called The Open Revolution and he explained the economy of what would happen if we fund, say, pharmaceutical research or any kind of important research not in a current patent based licensing system buying a more, I don't know whether you're curious I am optimistic or you know, Spotify the kind of model where it's paid by by use by how much impact it actually has on the society through a renumeration model and so this is an interesting language research and I understand also Canada is exploring with those two different the old proprietary body code and the more renumeration based open funding also needs to coexist they also coexist in Taiwan they also coexist in software it's a very old debate and so for quite some time I think we'll see them coexisting but at least in the field of software engineering the open world has clearly worn we know it when Microsoft our arch enemy actually joined the open innovation network all of its patents related to Linux and other open systems into the patent pool so that it can be used for free by anyone who agreed to awesome us to other members of our patents infringement and this is a classic open kind of revolution way of software development and so Microsoft really did a huge turn and they are now also paid by which is I mean for us both guards it's very difficult to rip a tile they have really changed its place now whether now red IBM also changes place remains to be seen but there's a science that I think are very positive at least in the software field in the world that we are generally moving into the open innovation model where people basically invest in the open innovation not out of actualism but because people see the world as being so complex now if the industry doesn't share the burden of maintaining existing technology to a emerging fast changing world then everybody and some are actually better off and so what used to be called an asset or intellectual property is actually a burden if you don't share the maintenance with the open ecosystem and so that's true for software development it's true for people participating in open access for some fields for some other fields so we're within the open revolution and we're slowly but surely getting there some people would like to know how in Canada and Taiwan to middle powers collaborate more in the area of open data and digital governance through those official and unofficial channels well I was just in over 50 as a conference in Ottawa and I talk with really much everybody in the digital service here and I'm very happy that you now also have the additional minister and I also talk to the additional staff and I will be back next May actually back to Ottawa for the open government trying to submit the OJP summits so the official part is working really well and we also brought along unofficial part as well in Toronto we have a two day workshop teaching the methodology of the Taiwan Polis of the part of Zero with a code for Canada which is roughly the code of Zero here and also civic Toronto and also people at Mars and I mean the Mars, not Mars but also the local government in Toronto City and also Ontario Government and so I saw something really interesting which is just like the early about zero hackathons six years ago we ran the workshop it was the state level provincial level federal level government people got tech people and the civic tech people and the CSOs people just sit very closely next to their kids like people who are at the same level or the same function now or the unit and so our first instruction during the two day workshop is to maximise the number of strangers if you see anyone at your table that you happen to know that person please move to another people that people can actually mix and mingle and so it worked really well we chose a common topic here to both families and Canadian people that is right sharing so who are lived in taxi now after being legalised how do we actually share the data to ensure accessibility and also to reduce congestion and comments and things like that and so that people really co-created really well using the civil society as a knowledge as well so we're I think on the right track to collaborate digital governance and we have also a lot of just very simple technical tools to share so at the moment the Canadian Digital Service is considering a system that we well I personally contributed and are now employed across all the levels of the Taiwanese Digital Service that's called SANSORM now SANSORM is a cybersecurity product masquerading as a protective piece so basically it enables I'd assume here people have heard of SLAC and so this is SLAC equivalent it's a rocket chat Dropbox equivalent equivalent to Trello which is called weekend and also document editing which is like Google Doc and I personally maintain the spreadsheet part and it enables anyone in our public service to write any simplification whatsoever and deploy it in a way that's conforming to cybersecurity standards that CECO's my own and that enables it to be shared across the levels of public service and because of radical transparency I'm just going to show you how we use SANSORM in the Taiwanese administration because of radical transparency anything I can see I can publish but I cannot access the secrets so if they run a military drill I just take the day off I still don't know where the monthers are but that means that every day I just wake up and open the SANSORM system and see what my staff is up to now my staff also very interesting because as you can see 22 people here I can coach one person from each ministry so with 34 ministries I can coach at most 34 people at moment it's 22 people so it's a very horizontal way across Silo each person is still being paid by their own ministry they advocate for the value of that ministry but we all do this practice of working out loud working out loud means that we are not afraid of letting all other ministries are indeed people in Canada see what we are up to right? our way of doing and done we just did a translation of the comic book that we used to explain the open governments process we actually did it in indigenous languages to honor our first nation the Amis people are officials but the person of the administration is actually now indigenous so and to honor all the other indigenous languages as well and so because of this habit of working out loud people really learn to contribute any simple way any small and quick wins that is the one of the most popular application that we have in this cybersecurity hardened white hat hacker certified system is actually a way to order lunch boxes together and so people just write these simple JavaScript systems and that I'm sure that you can see if you know some Chinese characters of all the nearby restaurants near the administration building we scan all the menus of the nearby restaurants and it actually remembers my preferred single style you know it's my name and yeah if you want to add some eggs or order some stew or whatever you can easily order things together and this is one of the most popular applications written by members and shared with other members in the public service as well and so people just use it to plan tricks together or whatever and so this is again open source entirely open source and so the Canadian government as we speak is evaluating this technology as to whether it can be brought into the digital service of Canada 8 people would like to know in the sandbox during the one year period very good question yeah so we have a small disclaimer like Odell in the VINCAC sandbox for example it's not restricted to the sandbox laws one particular one particular ministry so for example in the sandbox in the VINCAC you can also challenge laws by the central bank and if during the uncrewed vehicles which is economy you can also challenge rules and regulations by the ministries of transportation and interior and whatever but there are two things that one cannot challenge aside from the constitution which goes without saying you cannot say I want to experiment in money laundry that's a no no we don't have that experiment will end and then you cannot fund terrorism we know that how that will end but aside from money laundry and funding parents and breaking the constitution everything is very in and so this is a very strong continental law I think the strongest continental law sandbox system where you get to challenge any ministries any regulation whatsoever if you can somehow hide into a short environment for good and in VINCAC of course it has to make sense if you get something really random everybody would just because it's only innovation this is posted to the public internet for everybody to see so people who love their their faces that will not purpose something that is very ridiculous but so more often than not we really get really nice innovation proposals like our first application at VINCAC as to remember that's a front telecom and the telecom says I want to offer loans to people 18 years old or so who did not have a credit history so the banks cannot figure out how much interest rate to charge you if you decide to apply for a loan but a telecom actually knows your credit history brings your pay or penalty every month and also when you get your SIM card you already give them the photo ID so they claim that they have this algorithm that is better than a VINCAC system that's actually going to a bank you just use it by a little phone and they know that's because you through the SIM card and the habit of you using their telecom service now the experiment is rolled out to 4,000 people and the multi-stakeholder panel agreed that within one year there's five cases of misidentification of people in the person the nation or one the laundry or whatever as long as there's a fifth space the entire experiment will terminate and people would know that this algorithm is not yet ready for the time assigned to replace the so-called risk control system of the traditional banking system but however you after one year everybody says they're able to have better access to financing or micro-financing then it gets filled out and it becomes a new regulation and so yeah you can challenge anything but there's reasonable amounts and if it fails it fails to say in an open way so that any other innovator that tries for the second time will not repeat the same mistake six people would like to know seven people would like to know how many difficulties into transitioning to a problem in position where things often move slower and ambition come in and well actually you know I am happily surprised by how fast and how innovative the public service is once you have a minister that is willing to absorb all the risk and share all the credit right but that's just the recipe of innovation the entire setup of previous of our office is based on the very simple idea of voluntary association and we have our common values as well right we always service common values and our common value in the middle is to build mutual trust by having the government trust in the citizen first and maybe some would trust back this is our core value and to the left we want to nurture social innovation so that when the government admits through radical transparency that we are hopeless to solve a structural problem at least until the next budget yeah the social innovator will step in and show the government how to do it better at least for that yeah using simple other such innovation methodologies and during which we ultimate a lot of the chores using machine learning and so on so the public service don't have to focus on the parts that are repeated that doesn't mean communication these automated parts those chores are automated by having innovation shared across all the level of the public service and finally we through ways like the presidential social innovation kind of public service members propels anonymously through the help of this people society members new and interesting ways to improve the public sector service so the way it works isn't announced yet but in the next three months I'm going to crowdsource new way to make public service better based on the presidential promise that doctors hide from those when she ran for president some parts we went really well some parts enough to lunch and so anyone is welcome to suggest new ways for public service to work in a way that delivers better on the presidential promise so for example this year we got in the beginning of the three months period five suggestions of how to make public service work better many of them data related so maybe they have an algorithm they want data maybe they have data they want machine learning experience so on and so forth but the interesting thing is that even though they are from so-called civil society organizations we know just by the way that it's written more than 70% of these cases were prepared by public service by members so that didn't have the budget didn't have the political will that has crossed side of communication barriers and so on so they just write a proposal tell their CSO friends to come both into the president's office and say oh we're very happy to help but actually they wrote it themselves and so the end result is that after the three months of procreation that it really works there's 20 cases every year that the president's office selects and personally the president's office is one for those ideas and so there's no data there's no bureaucrats that navigate what the president herself is your project manager and at the end of it we select five winning cases that really produce a tangible benefit and there's no price money there's no money to reward the reward is dealt for the next budget year the president will just make sure that public service is able to innovate in a way that has the risk of storm and has the credit to share and that is how this is the real value of this now I'm being reminded that I only have two more minutes and so I'm going to first I'm sorry for all the questions that left I'm answered I'm happy to you can follow me on Twitter for example and we can carry on the conversation in Twitter just I want to share you my job description when I first became the division minister two years ago I was in New Zealand at the time talking to Maori people and was really inspired by the Australian tradition they started the culture started in Taiwan four thousand years ago and it went all the way to the Maori people and so I wrote my job description and as a colour and so this is literally my mandate is after one month of co-creation that I turn this poet into the work that I'm sharing with you now after two years and so the club goes like this when we see internet of things let's make it a internet of beings when we see virtual reality let's make it a share reality when we see machine life let's make it collaborative life when we see user experience let's make it about human experience and whenever we hear that the singularity is mean it always can be mine and always be meant by the reality is here thank you very much I can speak on behalf of everybody and to hear that that was an extremely you know that was an extremely inspiring presentation I feel like in undergrad I know we have to hear some politics but I feel like a lot of what we've learned it's kind of up in the air especially when we talk about data especially when we talk about digitizing for the future et cetera et cetera and I love that all your work has gone to try to to operation making real impact engaging more working people engaging youth engaging programmers et cetera et cetera to really work together we hear about the lecture and talk about them you know that governments talk about actually making it real so often I feel like that's not so much a case and I think your work is a true inspiration to all of us from learning how we can take what we learn in class and really really make a difference in this world so thank you very much for taking this time to speak with us thank you for the great questions absolutely thank you I think there's some food left outside please feel free to help yourselves