 Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you're hailing from, welcome to another episode of Red Hat Enterprise Linux Presents. I am Chris Short, host with the most of all things Red Hat live streaming. I am joined by Mr. Red Hat Enterprise Linux himself, Scott McBrien and Eric, the IT guy. There's a story behind that, both of them probably, but welcome Narendra back to the channel. I haven't seen you in a while. Scott, what are we talking about today, buddy? I thought today we'd talk a little bit about network manager. I still run into people that are like, can't we install networking and get rid of that network manager-y thing? Because I think that they remember network manager in Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6. That's my memory of, yeah. And to be fair, it wasn't fully baked then maybe. And it was a big departure from what we knew and loved with configuration files and stuff. But we closed that gap significantly in 7 and in row 8, network manager is the default and networking is still distributed, but it's deprecated and not recommended anymore. Right. So I just wanted to touch base on network manager and the tools that we use for working with it. And maybe I'll play the crusty sysadmin with Eric and he can tell me how great it is and I'll just tell him how horrible it is and then he can tell me why I'm all wrong. So. I am here for this ride. But a programming note, folks. So, I mean, do you want to say it, Scott? Or do you want me to say it? Yeah, sure. So a lot of people probably have not yet noticed but the level up hour has changed hosts. Yes. Langdon White unfortunately is no longer with Red Hat. He's moved to pursue a career in academia. And so I've moved over there to be one of three hosts on the level up hour. And because of that, Mr. Eric Hendricks is going to be taking over the Red Hat Enterprise Linux Presents live stream with Elsin, you are short. Yes, I will still be here. Eric, tell us what you do here at Red Hat and also what you do on the side. Definitely. Yeah, great to be here. I guess a longtime fan, first time caller. Ironically, that that's the the chance I get to kind of try and follow Scott's and kind of help make this live stream continue to provide the great information that it has. So I am a technical marketing manager here at Red Hat. I work with Scott and team to produce a lot of the content, some of the tech videos, the release notes, things like that here at Red Hat for all things Red Hat Enterprise Linux. And then before that, I was in sales for about two and a half years. I worked for Red Hat for GitLab. And before that, I spent close to a decade as a systems administrator. I've worked on Ubuntu, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, CentOS. I used to run Arch, by the way, on my on my home systems. So a little bit of everything, Linux and open source. And then before coming to Red Hat, I actually kicked off a podcast. It's called the Pseudo show. Quick disclaimer, it has no nice CO2, keeping an eye on the chat. Quick disclaimer, the Pseudo show is not affiliated with Red Hat, but glad to be doing that show as well as this one to talk about rel. So glad to be here. We're happy to have you. And I'm pulling up a link for the Pseudo show to drop in chat right now as soon as I find it. But in the meantime, Network Manager, the thing that some people used to love, but should now come to love. Yeah. And so like, here we go, Eric, I'm going to be the trustee, so sad, man. Ready? You're going to get to tell me how wrong I am. I don't use that. I need to be able to edit files to make my changes to my network config. And it doesn't do that. I wanted to play the crusty, sad, man, but, you know, that's fine, whatever. So with Network Manager, it allows you to write from the command line, make all the changes to any of your network information or to your network devices that allows you to pull up network information. So you can see link status. You can see what the primary protocol is, whether that's static or DHCP. So the problem with the IF config files is the IF config files under Etsy, SysConfig, Network Dash Scripts. Yeah. Is, first off, tab complete is pain when you try and go there because there's several folders that that fit under there. But I can't tell you how many times I've gotten lost going down that path. But yeah. But the the real problem with the IF config files is there are so many options. Some of them are a little bit obscure. Some of them don't really, some of them do multiple things. So it's it can be kind of a pain to try and keep a consistent network configuration across your entire enterprise. So what Network Manager allows you to do is allows you to set up connections and set your set your interfaces to come up or come down at certain times. So and you don't have to keep track of all those files anymore. Network Manager kind of handles that for you. In fact, if you've looked at REL7, REL8 and you go to the Network Dash Scripts Directory, there's usually a config file in there for like Loopback or or your primary Ethernet port that says that this this this interface is actually managed by Network Manager. Do not touch this file. Yeah. And I will even go as far to say, in Fedora 34, there's nothing there. So that's a great point. I will tell you that I can't speak to Fedora because I don't use that on my primary box. You can't edit the configuration files, even though they're managed by Network Manager. And it's fine. Like you can update the settings in there. And Network Manager, as though by magic, picks up the change because unlike the old days, I know, right? So in the in the olden days, like the REL6 days, when it was not the greatest, what ended up happening was we stood up like a parallel infrastructure for Network Manager under completely different directory and it had its own files actually under there they managed. But it didn't talk to the other files. So as soon as you ran Network Manager, like forked over to this other place and other set of configs. And then if you went to the place that you knew already and made changes, they weren't reflected because they weren't in the place that was looking. And in REL7, we fixed that. So the config files are still there. And there is a database of stuff that Network Manager maintains elsewhere. But Network Manager also pays attention to those files. So if you go in and edit the files, it gets reflected in the the data that Network Manager has access to as well. You know, there are often several different ways to do things, as Eric pointed out, like setting subnet mask, you can set the net mask or you can set the prefix. Network Manager knows all of those. And so all the stuff that was documented in the script documentation, which is what was the holder of all the lexicon of Rosetta Stone for those settings. You know, Network Manager does all that plus, plus, plus way more. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So so for the people that are like, I like editing files, you could start at the files. I'm not stopping you from editing files, do it. But be aware that there's more that you're missing by editing files. Even if that's the way we're doing it. You want to copy files to other boxes and that's cool too. Like Network Manager will be able to hang. But yeah, and it's a service as opposed to just a script that runs at boot time and then never runs again. Yes, that is kind of the advantage, right? Like having it there to manage all the things all the time, not just at boot or when you restart networking, which if you're SSH'ing into the box, that is a whole ball of lax of chicken and egg that you don't want to play. But yeah. So go ahead. I was just going to share my lab screen. Have a. So you guys can see. All right. So one of the other TMS on my and Eric's teams, there's Jarrett. He wrote this networking basics lab in his admin one on one series. So if you're interested, it's on lab.redhat.com. I'm sure it will paste. I'm about to get it short right now. And it's about using an MCI. But before we do that, just got a small. We can see that this box has two ethernet interfaces in S3 and in S5, right? We can see the settings that have been applied. And we can take a look at this. This config file and we could edit it and everything would be fine. Just like it was in the olden days, in ye olden days. So, yeah, so that was my first point. Eric, I'll let you kind of direct where we're going to go next. You want to go to talk about the cockpit integration or do you want to talk about an MCI? Well, let's start on the command line. Then we can kind of talk about cockpit. And while you're thinking about that, let me make sure that's there. There's not a separate module for networking, is there? I believe it's part of the base. But let's see what. I think it may be cockpit-network-manager. I don't think it's in my list. If we need to, I can pull up my home server. Yeah. I mean, it should be there. Let me just start it up. In theory, it should be there. Works on my machine. Exactly. Work on my laptop. I don't know what you're talking about. And hopefully you guys aren't listening to the rain pounding against my office windows. I'd rather have rain than the freaking Pajillion degrees and 4,000% humidity we have today. It's not raining. Yeah. Too many redirects. That's funny. This is a quick PSA to reset your password every so often. Well, he's using the lab instance. Yeah, on our other 500 error. Ouch. On our other ones, we actually reset it as part of the initial script. So like, that's not a problem. But these images are more than 90 days old. And so. All right. Here's what we're going to do. I'm just going to be stupid. You be stupid. Oh, that's right. You're rude. There we go. Problem solved. Yay, bad practices. Well, he did say he was going to be the crusty old sis admin. That's what we did. Yeah. He warned us. He did warn us. Right. I've got root. I'll make this secure. Marketing. I do see networking. So it's definitely part of the package now. It looks like. All right, so I'll leave this be because you said you wanted to do. CLI. So we'll just leave it. All right. So. Command is. And then. CLI. What do we want to do? You want to list what we got? Yeah, let's just see what connections we've got first. Okay. So if we do a tab, tab. There's our options for our next argument. We want to do a connection. We want to do a tab tab. No. That's not the same. Yeah, I love fashion completion. It's, it's like. The best. It's part of my Ansible build script for every one of my machines here at home. Oh, install. Ansible. Or just short. Yes. All right. So there's system. That's three. That's the one that we saw with this guy. IPA. This stands right here. And so one of the kind of. Interesting things about NFC Li at least. My perspective is that deals with the connections. Rather than IPs, which we're used to dealing with. And so. If we wanted to talk about this. Interface, we can refer to it as system E and S three. In. And that's a little bit of a change for. Us crusty system admins. So. All right. So. What is the system one versus with a wired one though? Why are the different colors? So wired connection one. Has not been. Configured at all. And that's why it's just like, there is a thing out there that you could plug things into, but it has nothing on it. And in fact, if we look at, let me just double check here. Or I say, in fact, let me verify that it actually is a fact. I'm in doubt. Go to system config network something. Oh, no, I was hoping it would have a. Connection name, but. That's also in the NFC Li info. So. So. Enes. Five is part of the lab. One of the steps is to give it an IP address. Yeah. Oh, so you want to run through the lab? Well, there you go. As well. All right. So. So. Jerry started off by just looking at the devices on the system. So NM CLI devices is looking by device. Name instead of by connection name. So that's ENS three ENS five. So it just kind of organizes the display a little bit different one. And then. We flip over to looking at the connection and. We run this command, which is. Connection add. Connection name is ethernet one. The interface that goes along with that is ENS five. And the type is ethernet. And. Notice that it says that it was successfully added here. Cool. So now if I look at the device. I see some of the properties on it that were different than last time. Right. Actually has like a name. Right. That said make a connection named ethernet one. So that's done here. And guess what for us crusty system administrators. We, it's ethernet one. Yeah, I was going to say. Yep. There you go. We got the config file. Right. So you can edit the config file too. And do the same stuff. All right. So in the next step, why don't we do, why don't we edit that file and because I think we're changing from DHCP to static. Okay. And we can show off how to, how to reload the config. All right. So what do you want to put here for boot proto? Let's do static. So fun fact. The only words for boot proto that actually means something are dhcp and bootp. Boot me. Boot p. Yeah. Which is another dynamic protocol for. Yeah. Which hasn't been used. I can't say I've ever run into a boot p network, but yeah. So we typically will see static. You may also see people use the word none. Because there is no boot protocol for dynamically assigning the IP on this address. But honestly, you could send it to like. Fluffy Mcbutter pants. And it would really mean static. The only words that actually do anything. No, now you have to try it fluffy Mcbutter pants. Put it in. Yeah. There you go. All right. What's, what's next? All right. Let's scroll down here in your. Your description. In the lab instructions. I didn't look up the IP address before we went into the config file. So it looks like we're on a 172 network. Yeah. 0.9. Prefixes 32. Right. We could also do a net mask. 255 255 255, whatever. I guess 255. 254. All right. And then I think that's probably all we absolutely need. Typically we'd also want to see. Maybe gateway. To be able to route outside of this network. Somebody, I'm going to play stump the chump with the other hosts. What else would you maybe like to see in here? Can't be this. It's not this. It's always this. Usually make sure there's a gateway in there. Yeah. Sometimes the DNS server DNS. Yeah. Can't be DNS. It's not DNS. It was DNS. Anyway. All right. So. There we go. And in the lab, they're actually using an MCLI to make those changes. Right. Oh, and he adds a gateway in there here. Let's just. Let's just do it an MCLI. Oh, we need to turn it on first. Maybe. That mess it up. Right here. I mean. Is the sky blue. Also true. Maybe fluffy Mcbutter pants is actually a known bug. So the box is still there. That's good. It's. Maybe fluffy Mcbutter pants isn't what you should have put in. What I like Chris short. It's my last show. I'll do what I want. You're not the boss of me anymore. So you are. So I would like to point out the error there. Yeah. Gateway cannot be set if there are no addresses configured. But you configured an address. Did you not. So let's, let's see if changing it to static actually. Fixes it. And that might be a hold of it from my knowledge of. Network scripts. Apparently fluffing with butter pants does break things. Yeah. Shocking. We'll put that in as a future request. Don't tempt me. All right. So now we'll add the gateway there. All right. So if we do a. IPA. So it looks like it assigned the right IP. And if we do an NM COI connection show. So there's my NS five and. Then to your point, Chris, now they're both green. Since they both have an IP, they have valid configurations and they've got a connection. All right. And when I. Sorry. Go ahead. Once you fast. No, you're fine. I'm trying to type and keep up. Same time. Yeah. All right. So they're. Both green. Green is good, right? Green is good. All right. It's not as much fun as red though. Sure. But in this case. It could be bad. All right. So we do a show on just not in general, but actually on an individual interface. Or connection as the case may be. It actually shows us all the additional settings that could be applied to this interface. So. Which in the past to Eric's. Point very early in the show. Right. You would have to know all of the. Configuration parameters to set in your individual file. Ahead of time. In order to utilize them. Whereas here you're showing them all. And then you can make changes with an MCI. But looking for my IP. So we're down here. IP. You have an IPv6. I do not. Well, there's a conversation going on in the chat that, you know, it's, it's a real shame that network manager is only for wifi. Yeah. Oh dear. Yeah. I mean, this is some of the stuff from the, you know, the legacy days. I'm sorry. Yeah. This was going to come up at some point. I mean, to be honest, as, as, as this admin, I. I was one of those people who was IFCFG only. Yeah. The algorithm that I used to run in the RL7. Seven, two, somewhere in that timeframe. It's like, let's let's try it. And I to be honest, I've never gone back. Although I should, I should caveat that I've never gone back until I started using the web UI. And the web UI is amazing using cockpit to manage my networking. So for my cluster here at home, right? It's all sitting on the one Dell R820 in the basement. And it's like, I need a bridge. I need multiple interfaces, da, da, da, da. It was all done through cockpit and it was just easy as it could be. It's like, you want a bridge? What IP do you want it to have? Oh, you want to use DHCP? Okay, that's fine. You know, set up a reservation for DHCP and the network devices and done. All went back. And I think a couple of shows ago, we were talking about how web console, AKA cockpit, like, it gets a bad rap because we tend to position it as like, oh, it's for the new guys. And in reality, like, it just makes life easier for so many things like, sure, you could do the 10 steps necessary to grow your LVM file system through the command line. I know the commands. You know the commands? We can do that. Or you can go into the web console. I like the thing. Click grow file system. There's a slider so you can grow it to whatever size you want, as opposed to being like, wait, how big is it again? Oh, now I need to go back out and like, look at the command to see how much space is left in the device. Oh, and rounding. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Oh, God. Oh, back when you said it. There's 760 megabytes of free space. Why? We had to round up to the nearest whole logical extent, which makes you think, I'm sorry, fail. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, use the slider. You click, you know, grow and done. And I think networking is probably one of those two. Like it's a complex task that has a lot of parameters that you can work through the web console interface pretty easily, even though you're an experienced administrator. Did we get cockpit working on the system? We did. We did. With some of the newer versions of cockpit, there's even a performance graph on the networking configuration page. So if you're in there making changes, you can see exactly how your system's performing from the sending and receiving perspective. So programming note, massive line of thunderstorms are coming in here, should be here right as the show ends. So if all of a sudden I disappear, show's over. But in all seriousness, if we shouldn't lose power or anything, but after the last series of thunderstorms that were really big like this came through, I assume nothing anymore. Well, I mean, you know what assuming does. Mm-hmm. All right. Well, I live right next to, I'm on the hospital's grid, yet I went without power for two days. Why? Because the hospital has 72 hours of generator. So the power company knew it had two days, maybe three tops. I see in the chat Conan Kudu is just like chumming the trollwaters. So all right, here we are in the web interface for networking. You can even configure your firewall in there. I'm looking at like adding a bond or a team, like good night, that used to be 37,000 commands. Well, I remember having to instantiate bonds using Puppet. Well, not trivial. I mean, doing it on the command line with like loading your, adding the correct config to each component interface plus creating a new config for the bonded interface plus passing the parameters to the kernel for the kernel module like that. That is also not trivial. Yeah, none of that was trivial. Oh, out of VLAN? Man, I was just doing that the other day. That's pretty sweet. So my, my home lab is single server and it's big shock. It's running rel 8.4 and I use cockpit to manage everything on that box. Most of my lab itself is virtualized. So between setting up all the virtual machines through cockpit and doing all the networking, it was so nice after, after I was one of those sys admins who would grab a blog post off the internet that worked for me to get a certain thing set up like a network bond and I'd save it into Evernote or whatever it was. Just so I would never lose that blog post. I didn't want that person to go, you know what? I don't want a blog anymore. And then I'm screwed because I'd have to go read the documentation. I did the exact thing back when I was a sys admin. I used to like, I'm sure if I opened up my Evernote account now you would just find like cops of like daily notes and blogs and stuff that I read and you know, scripts that I knew were good templates to you know, copy in. Yes. Yeah. Just all kinds of stuff. Yeah. And then I went to set up, I went to rebuild my lab environment just a few months ago and it's like cockpit, networking, bonds. I want this interface. I want this IP range, activate, sat back and went, that's going to break, isn't it? A few seconds later, the cockpit UI refreshed. Everything worked. I was like, well, I'm just gonna log out. I set myself like two hours for this. It took two minutes. This is amazing. I'm just gonna go to sleep. So there's bonding and there's teaming. Do we want to talk about the difference or not? I mean, there's, functionally they operate very similar. It's taking more than we're going to face tying them together into a single connection. Bonding is the older method that uses a kernel module and has been around for a really long time. Teaming uses a daemon called teamD. It sucks up an entire CPU the second you turn it on. Oh, now. No, I can prove it. Bear, because it's doing a lot of life. It's doing the networking. Now you got to dedicate a core basically to networking, which let's face it, network devices have specialized ASICs, right? Like the fact that it's only taking one core is kind of special, you know? And if you're coming from Microsoft background, probably teaming is more similar to your existing experience because it looks really similar. The configuration settings and parameters that are passed is very familiar. If you're coming from Microsoft background on making network interfaces appear as one. And then they also have some additional aggregation modes if I remember correctly in teaming. Yes. Are not there in bonding. So. Yeah, I wish teaming were around when I had to do bonds. I'll just leave it at that. Minus the CPU in... Well, I mean, configuration-wise, like back, you know, there's billions of CPUs in my data center back then. So I didn't necessarily care about CPU usage. I would just go get another blade server and fill it up with VMs. And teaming is still relatively new to REL. We introduced it in REL Enterprise Linux 7. And by relatively new, that's like, you know, seven and a half years ago. But we've carried it forward into REL 8 as well. Yeah. Cool. So what else can we do? So I was thinking that it might be a fun way to end my term on REL Enterprise Linux presents with an interview question that I always ask candidates. Mm-hmm. I'm here for this. All right. So I always... As long as I can ask you my favorite one. Okay. Okay. I'd be a leaf. I would be the color green. Okay. Fair enough. So I always ask interview candidates a time that they made a mistake and what they learned from it. So I'll go first. I'll break the ice, right? Rather than putting you an air-con spot. So in my younger days, I worked for Red Hat Training Certification. And I was putting together the update for a new release of RH300, the RHCE Rapid Track Bootcamp course. And I'd been given a week to update it from its previous release. It's not a small class. So I had been banging away at it for a while. It was due on a Monday. So of course I had worked through the weekend to do it because I'm terrible at planning things. And I was putting together the final PDF render so that I could upload it to the printer on Monday, like the print shop that did our book creation on Monday. Right. Yeah. It was like four in the morning on a Sunday. And it was rendering. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to head and clean up my directory structure here with all my temp files and work in progress stuff. And you can imagine where I'm going with this story. Nothing ever goes wrong at 4 a.m. on a Sunday. No. Right. Right. So I deleted the files that I had finalized and were being rendered into PDFs thereby deleting all of the work that I had done in the last week. Let me guess. You didn't version control them. Oh, no. Such silly thing. I mean, granted, this is also a really long time ago. So our version control interface at the time was happy. CBS. Oh, okay. Yeah. Like there wasn't even subversion. That was a long time ago. But yeah. So I ended up like literally staying up for somebody two straight hours after that to recreate all the work that had taken me a prior week to create. Yeah. But so what I learned from that was. Number one. Don't do things at four o'clock in the morning on Sunday. And number two. Wait until you have your final work product complete. But before you do anything else. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Good point. I'll answer the question with. Yeah. Yeah. Don't take your coworker who just. Wrote a custom Pearl script. To help identify files that need to be deleted on the file system. Because that coworker could also have typoed it to list all files on the file system, which. The file system was a. Net app. And it literally filled up the net app, just listing files on the file system. Yeah. Don't start that script and then go to launch. Because when you fill up a storage device for a major, you know, company, it pretty much grinds everything to a halt at that point. And nothing else can happen. Until someone and goes and looks and says, why are all these onions full? Oh my God, what is this big ass file here? Get it out of here. Yeah. Oh, and then when the pager started going off, you're like, Oh yeah. No, when the pager went off, it was pretty much like. Well, it's time to go guys. Brad here has done something stupid. Thanks, Brad. By the way, Brad, yeah, your, your script just finished. Yeah. And everything's done. And well, it finished because it couldn't write anymore. All right. I'll share mine. There's, there's something bad about just working when you're not working. There's a theme here today because there was a time I was working as a sys admin and I had the very simple task of we want some archive files off of a Atlassian hip chat server because hip chat was, was this great, great instant messaging platform where the brilliant idea was you kind of had to reinstall it more or less. That was the upgrade process. Yeah. Although yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That was the upgrade process. Although folks got kind of savvy later on and realized that I could just clone the VM, do the upgrade and then just swing to the new VM. Right. So we did that. And then someone realized, oh wait, we didn't copy all the archive data over. So let's just, let's just power up the old VM. Grab those files, drop it on the new VM and you know, no big deal. Right. It's like, sure. Well, I'm going to lunch here in 15. So I'll tell you what, I'll just, I'll power up the VM. I'll come back. You can watch. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. While we're at lunch. Oh, the sudden hip chat goes down. Can't imagine why nothing I did. No. So we, we got to leave lunch early that day, came back to the office and go figure. I needed to change the MAC address on the old VM because we didn't want any interruption, any issues with the load balancer because that means opening a ticket with the networking teams or change the load balancer. So we'll just, we'll keep the same MAC address. We'll just swing it over to the new VM. No problems. Right. Well, brilliant. Me forgot to change the MAC address. So I shut it down, remove the networking interface completely and then used one of VMwares tools to get to the virtual machines disk that I am not touching this thing ever again, downloaded it to my desktop, uploaded it to the team drive and just off we go. I think I called in sick for the afternoon. It's just probably good idea. I'm not sure why hip chat just stopped working. Yeah. What did you learn? Don't use hip chat. Which is ironic since it's, I don't, I don't think it's, I don't think it's an active product anymore. I mean, I remember maintaining the hip chat server. It was nice for what it was, but the upgrade process was, was painful. Yeah. It was very painful because it literally meant re-installing. The first link is a Wikipedia page. Let's see. When did it go end of life? Oh, don't say. Maybe it's still. It's still. Seventh 2017 at last year and discontinued the cloud based hip chat replacing it with hip chat successor called stride. Okay. There you go. Good to know the client hosted. Hip chat data center continued to be supported. So there's. Essentially people. Still running it. Maybe. Hmm. I mean, there's still people running. Jabber and a variety of other things that are. Old. Sure. So my interview question. Yeah. LS has a lot of flags. Right. Just a simple LS. In Linux. What is the one. Letter that isn't a flag. Oh. Case does not matter. Correct. It could. Case does matter. Yes. So it's. You're including both upper and lower case in your question. Yes. Correct. I'd like to phone a friend. Well, don't. Using a Mac or anything. BSD based. I've got my 32 box here. I want to call the band page. Yeah. No, it's actually capital E. And that might no longer be the case to be honest with you. Cause that is kind of old info. But I actually answered that right. One time. Just by guessing. Yes. What is a letter that I've never used. Capital E. And yeah. That was it. I guess the correct answer for the interview. That's how I got the job. It was great. Though capital E is still not used. No more Casey knows. Okay. So I just said E. I think back then. And he now clarified. I think it's capital E. But yes, you're right. So neither E is used. But in BSD. Versions. Of OS is it is used. It is a flag. That I learned to. When I asked the question of someone that was a heavy Mac user. J is also not used. Ah, okay. So there's more than one letter. So I guess, I guess Scott, neither you or I got the job. No. And why is not used. Hmm. Really. I mean, what questions would you have to answer yes to for an LS? Would you like to list this file? Yes. Only if clippy pops. Oh, clippy. How I miss you. He was always happy to see me. Always. I was never happy to see clippy though. Right. Oh, I guess if we're doing this, I need to come up with question here. Yeah. Just think of your interview questions. Oh, goodness. Nothing like, nothing like coming up with something live. Yeah. Oh, you're going to ask something like what animal would you be? It'd be a wall. All right, Chris. I guess you got to answer that now too. I would be an alligator. Make me more as a hedgehog man. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Hedgehog. Quickly, but love love. Clippy is a window. I love it. He's a dog that can look at you. But he's one of who is one of our frequent watchers on the channel. Nothing wrong. Younger developer. I was going to say he must be younger because he thinks of get his old and I was talking about a time where get did not exist. Yes. What? Yeah. The windows 95 thing, he know it was the office. For many years, you had to deal with Clippy. Clippy often got uninstalled very quickly. Yeah. I mean, to be fair, like when we were younger and programming computers, we would just like take rocks and mash them together. That's how you got bits. Yeah. We would actually talk to the sand to make it do math. We would teach the sand math and then it would go form silicon and become a processor. Right. See, that's not fair. I can't make old people jokes because you just, Scott, you already claimed it. I mean, it's the hair. Yeah. That's fair. It's over. Well, we've got a little bit of time left. What is there any questions from the, from the live stream and anybody in chat? I haven't seen anybody, but anybody want to anybody got a question for either Scott or myself? Oh, that's right. Slack bought hip chat away from it last year. I did not know that. I think I remember that vaguely, or Atlassian something, something I think Atlassian got tried to figure out an exit for hip chat and it was Slack. Well, now everyone should be using matrix and elements. There should be no other platform out there. Now, so Narendra have actually asked about us using punch cards. So I have a funny story about that. I've never used a punch card in production for. I've never used a punch card either. But, you know, who did was my dad. Yeah. And we found a like punch card wreath in my grandmother's attic. And I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. And what they did was they just took punch cards and like folded them into cones and stapled them. And then they staple it all together into a circle. And then they'd use like a spray print to spray paint it. And it would be like gold or silver or whatever. Yeah. And so I said something to my dad about it. And he's like, oh, I got I got a bunch of punch cards. Sure enough, he hand me the shoe box full of punch cards that was all those Fortran 73 programs from like his junior year in college. Don't shuffle them. Thankfully, this is after the University of Maryland had bought a card number. So you every card actually had a number in case you told me a story about the time that he did drop them at four in the morning because that's when he could get compute time at the computer center. And from then he like drew a diagonal sharpie line across the top of the deck. That way you could reorder them. And if one was out of order, there'd be like a sharpie black mark like way out of the way. You could just figure out where to line it back up again. Anyway, so I have these punch cards that are punched, which also is somewhat magical. And around it is the line printed program that was written for the cards that were punched for it. And each card has the instruction right now, too. But it's like it's it's pretty cool. And many years ago, well, actually not that many years ago, a long time ago, I wrote something for training. And much of my sugar in it was production for 17 years. And the reason I know is production for 17 years is because on year 17, they came to me and were like, hey, we need you to make a change. And you were the last one to work on this. And I was like, yeah, yeah, I did that in a weekend. Cool, awesome. And so I sent back a picture to my boss of me holding a punch card and an exacto knife. And it's like, this is what it feels like when you ask me to edit code from 17 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. So a long time ago, well, a not so long time ago was three years ago. So I've been at Red Hat for almost 20 years in the Red Dev. Really? Have you really? I have. I did have a short break in the middle for three years. But would you go? Yeah, I originally joined right now. No, I just needed to break. It wasn't you. It was me. Fair enough. So I originally joined Red Hat in July 2001. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It was a very different story then. Yeah. I mean, it was just IPO'd. It IPO'd before I had joined. Yeah. And because it was IPO'd in 2000 or 99. I distinctly remember because I went to bootcamp in 99. I was like, what's the Red Hat stock price? 160. Next time I got to CNBC, a little like scrolling thing, because you know how they used to have them scroll across the bottom of the screen. There was Red Hat, you know, I should have bought it at three dollars a share because it was up to like one bajillion hundred dollars, you know. So when I joined Red Hat, the stock price was four dollars a share. The previous year it had been one hundred and sixty dollars a share. Yeah. And yeah. Let me just say that when I would tag along on sales calls, that was a lot of people let us know how unhappy they were about that. Yeah. So. Anyways, enough about stock history. Now it's not in a symbol anymore. So it just falls over the land. Fair point. All right. Anything else, Eric, you want to say anything woody or fun about the next show? You have no idea what we're going to be doing. I'm sure. But actually. Julie. As if I don't have enough tabs open here. I don't say you're opening another tab actually. Coming up. So we've got we've got a few different ideas. So here here for the next couple of months, we were actually looking at doing kind of a day in the life of a Red Hat engineer. So we talk about we talk about well all the time. We talk about some of the different features and how it fits into the industry. So we thought it might be fun to bring someone in from engineering to kind of talk about what what do you do every day? What's, you know, just a day in the life? We've also talked about building building system D unit files. And then a little known fact about rel 8 is in TPD is not the default anymore. It's crony nowadays. So those are those are some topics we're considering. And Chris and I are pretty much going to keep the show format exactly how it has been. So if there's any any interviews, if if there's any topics you'd like to see us cover, would love would love your feedback. Send send those to send those to Chris and send all of your hate mail to Scott and. Short redhead.com for your ideas, whatever I can get. Yeah, definitely. Redhead.com for all your hate mail, apparently. The OK question. Does E.B.P.F. help network people at all? Yes, very yes, because it's a kernel module, right? So and this is from, you know, a Kate's person. So like Kate, see it, see and I silly I'm. Going all in on E.B.P.F. is something that they've done recently. So could you like on a mailbox use E.B.P.F. The answer is yes. Anything that you can do with the kernel can be done in real. And E.B.P.F. I mean, it's incredibly powerful. It's a great way to do a lot with network policy and, you know, firewalling, whatever you want to do. That might be a good topic for us to touch on at some point. Or I'll write that one down too. So we typically work with E.B.P.F. as the incremental virtual machine for performance analytics. So there's actually in the BCC tools, there's you know, TCP latency and a variety of other networking information that we can gather from the E.B.P.F. virtual machine. And that's typically where I see it used the to the most benefit. Managing storage with Stratus. You know, just a topic. We already have a lab for it. That's true. Cool. We do. Awesome. Managing storage Stratus. Also, my list of ideas is doubled in size just today. Yeah, look at that. Hey, make me feel so bad. I have I bring nothing to the table and yet. Eric's over here just like cranking out show ideas. Hey, you've got you've got another show to create ideas for. OK, right. Old man yells at clouds. That's my new show. A.K.A. the level up out. So, yes, if you want to see Scott in the future, check him out on the level up hour. There's a link there. The whole premise of the level up program is to bring rel admins into containers. So we're containerizing systems administrators now. Maybe that's called an operator. But Scott is going to be handling the rel knowledge side of the level up hour. And we've teamed him up with Jafar Chirabi from my team who is he's been an essay and like Europe's like a number one essay, I feel like for you did that for years and now he's on my team as a technical marketing manager. He's literally an open shift genius. So putting them with Randy Russell, the head of GLS, you know, which is global learning services, putting the three of them together, I think we'll create a powerhouse show for the level up hour. So, yeah, I will. Be producing other shows, but yes, I've kind of handed that whole show, kitten, caboodle off minus the sweet sweet internet points. We'll keep those going as long as the team wants them. So, yeah, so Eric will be here in two weeks when we do the show again and hopefully we'll have something cool figured out for you. Hopefully, hopefully it'll be fine. Eric, Eric is a bundle of ideas. If my past working with him has any indication. That's good. You may not like them all, but they're all ideas. They're all ideas. He's great. I've never claimed any of them were good ideas. Ideas, right? Like when people say, hey, do you have any ideas? They're not judging quality at that point. Right. Dinosaur shooting laser beams. Go. But I think Chris and I could probably do an hour on on dinosaurs and laser beams. We could we could interview my five year old. He's he's an expert on dinosaurs and laser beams. So there you go. That'd be a good interview. I like I like turtles too. I'm sorry. I'm not sure how to follow that up. Yeah, no. So, Narenda, to answer your question, I will not be on the level of power unless they ask me to be. But Red Hat OpenShift is always watching. Aka the restream account. So, yeah. So, folks, if you have any questions, ideas for future shows, feel free to email me short at redhead.com. You can find me on Twitter, Chris Short, all squished together as one word. So two S's in the middle there. Eric, I don't know if you want to give out your Twitter handle or email or whatever. But yeah, I'm in the I'm in the live stream discord channel. You can find me on Twitter at it guy Eric. You can check out my website, it guy Eric dot com. I've got my branding identical across the board. So if if there's a platform, I'm probably on it under it guy. Eric, you can also catch the podcast at at pseudo show podcast and pseudo dot show is the website. I think that's all my I think that's all my handles. There you go. All right. Well, it's three o'clock, folks. I think we need to wrap this up because I'm sure I'm late for a meeting. And I'm about 61 minutes late for a meeting. So, oh, sweet. There's that. Thanks, everybody. Yes, take it easy. Stay safe out there, folks. We'll see you. We'll see you, Chris. Yeah.