 want to ask one starting couple of starting questions and then start handing over to the folks who are raising their hands. First to gather all the knowledge that you have just shared and a lot more that you have not shared today. Does everyone have to fly to Canada to take a course? That's an excellent question and I'm very happy that you asked that because I feel the reason I flew to Canada to take that course is no longer valid. I think with more people giving talks like this and stuff that gap is bridged. But a place where I find this is really confusing that there are these really nice technologies like CSS grid, for example, which is now a grid system that is beyond the scope of what I just presented. And it's a very, very sophisticated grid system that's in the hands of developers. And where the gap I see there is scope for bridging is that how does one package this tool for designers so that they know how to leverage these capabilities? Because I see a lot of these tools coming up like CSS grid and variable typography, which are mostly in the hands of developers with no input that designers should use them. So that's the only reason where I would feel like maybe it's good to speak that language a little bit. And yeah. So are you suggesting that designers need to learn a little bit how to code? I think there are more accessible things like say, for example, Jen Simmons makes us saw these series of videos called Layout Land. Yeah, so in the topic of grids itself, it's a YouTube channel called Layout Land. Honestly, I eat lunch to this person talking about grids. So how she speaks is she speaks about grids like this. She speaks about this. And then this comes here, the stacks like this. So the way she speaks is very, very visual. So you can actually find people who speak that language also. I would say like if you now want to know how to kind of like do grids or anything, it's always there. It's available, I feel somewhere. But I just feel there's a miss that there are certain technologies that are written only for developers to understand. But at the same time, like for CSS grid, the closest thing I've come to exploring that works for designers is webflow. They have a very nice like grid engine that you can you can kind of if you're a designer and you want to understand how CSS grid works and stuff, you can kind of read, maybe see what's layout land and practice on webflow to just see how things work. Right. So for those who are asking, Jen Simmons is someone who is, I think she was also a part of the working group for CSS grids, if I'm not wrong, definitely very closely associated with the people who are building the standards for design related things. And she goes on around the world giving a lot of talks. And I think during the COVID times, she's making a lot of videos as well. So do follow Jen Simmons work in this space. That's that's a very interesting. She's a very interesting person to follow and all the information that she gives. All right. And one more question I'll ask and then hand over to others. Do you start with the designs first, or do you start with laying out the grid first before you do the first shot and design? I always start with design first. For me, it's always good to say for example, the article detail page. I kind of at that point, it's I have this play. I would like you to just elaborate what is article detail page. It's a vocabulary that we're comfortable with, but not. So, okay, I'll talk about the article listing page that I spoke about earlier, which an article listing page would be any group of similar content that's presented in a screen. So it could be like a listing page could be a search result page, which kind of lists out different types of content. It could be a blog listing page where you're just showing a lot of blocks together and stuff. These kind of things when I know because what precedes the website grid, the grid part is a visual language presentation where I'm exploring like the visual attributes of the brand and seeing what typeface is kind of like would work for it and stuff like that. So you would want to kind of lock in your typefaces, maybe your colors because if you're working on like black, dark background versus white background, the amount of space you might need would be kind of like different. So I think it would be good to lock on like those physical, like visual attributes like color, typography, a brand elements, all of those things before you kind of like do the grid for sure. Do the grid bit. Okay, that makes sense to me and I hope the audience also benefits from this. I start taking a few audience questions and later on come to a few of the other questions that I have. We'll start with Avani first. Avani, I'm going to unmute you. So please ask your question. Hi, hi, everybody. Hi, Ansa. Hi. It was such a great session. I got some amazing insight. I had one question, you spoke about prioritizing your design for a particular device based on the audience that uses that device. So and you put, like you showed us some graphs which had like really precise percentages of users on how many people used the desktop and how many people use the mobile and all of that. So I wanted to know how do you go about finding these statistics? How are they derived? If they are the key statistics based on which you define your approach to designing for a particular device and how do you go about that? So that usually applies only for only for website redesigns where the website has been around for years and years and we have access to their Google Analytics panel. So these screenshots that you show are directly from Google Analytics, which allows you to which allows you to measure exactly how much how much of your audience comes from these different devices. So it's mostly for website redesign. In a case where I'm doing a design for a company that does not exist at all, the way that we would prioritize is by holding a discovery workshop, finding out who's their audience. Suppose they are like millennials or like, you know, and they're like, or whatever, like if there are certain kinds of users, or if they're like really, really, maybe in villages or something like that, you always know that maybe these are mobile only users, you know, they're not even it's not even mobile first users, they're like literally mobile only users. So the way that you might arrive at this could be either by guesswork through a discovery workshop or through actual data coming in from an existing website that you're redesigning. Let me let me add something to this answer as well, because having a data for a website that is there has been for a while has its own. I mean, you will always take that with a little bit of a pinch of a salt because a pinch of salt because the data might be skewed because the design is not enabling mobiles to use the site effectively and therefore more desktop usage is happening. Such a thing might also be possible. So you should keep those things in mind rather than just taking that data and start applying that to your work. At the same point of time, it's also good to have to always keep a check on what the web trends are. And there are lots of studies that are published every year, updated every few months and all what is the percentage depending on which country you are designing for where the audience lies. What is the maximum like in India? I think at this point of time about 65 to 70% of web usage is happening on mobile versus only about 30% usage happening on non-mobile devices. So such data points you can have are there publicly accessible, which you can also take as an input to decide where you want to focus more. All right, so I will move on to the next question, Akshath. Akshath, please go ahead, ask your question. Hi, Akshath. Hey, hi, Hamza. All right, so my really great talk, super insightful. So my question was actually about designing for iMacs and like the really big screens. Usually when designers do it, they stop at laptops and desktops and not really design for iMacs. And it's mostly an afterthought a lot of times. So I wanted one and that really affects from a developer point of view, because like you mentioned the use case to I guess where the background stretches edge to edge, for example. So now what happens is that the way if I'm designing my sections, where I'm putting my container class directly affects how my backgrounds look. So if after after the desktop design is done, and then we do kind of an audit of the design on an iMac and we realize, oh, it's not looking good. We need to make the section stretch from edge to edge. The developer will have to literally remove containers and probably put it as a subcontainer like he'll have to refactor his code to get that design in place. So my question was that as a design process, is it recommended? Or like how do you go about designing for the bigger screens? Like do as a designer, do we need to have the discipline to always make sure to test your design on a bigger screen before handing it out off to the developer because otherwise there will always be this back and forth on you know, an added work that gets added after the design is done. I think that's a really good question. I think I can answer particular slide also, which is say, for example, this, right? When I design, so one thing to do is like, I can probably like give this as a sticker sheet also to just tell people to kind of just say that you know, when you're designing like not this part, but the case A, case B, case C, so that like the next time you're designing with a designer, you can probably show them these three things and ask how does how should your things scale? The usually B and C are not going to be an issue. But when they're scaling with case A, they might need to give you additional stuff as well. So I think this would become this is good potential for the sticker sheet for future projects for you. But to just answer how I scale, I work myself is anytime I'm kind of designing, I have all of these four views always in my so even if I'm just doing like design on desktop, every page of mine has all of these four grids that are there. So sometimes what would happen is that I have a certain element that I know that is going to scale to my large desktop in eight columns similar to this, but I just want to test it. And I would just push it over there, test it and then kind of come back. So at no point am I only seeing one screen, it's always seeing like these four screens, even if I don't use them just to be cognizant of it. So I feel the two things and I completely understand your pain about introducing that wrapper after this thing, it's a proper pain in the behind. So I completely think that these things need to be solved for before. And that's kind of why even this came to be like because I do notice that this is a problem a lot of people have. And yeah, I think like to kind of show the screen to your designers and say, tell me how the scales and to ask them to and if they're designers around to kind of always be cognizant about these four grid system should be good. All right. So I think, yeah, I think that really helps. I really wanted to understand from you. Suppose you don't own an iMac, you can't afford one. That's a statistic. That is an example. What's the recommended way for you to test your design on an iMac? Is there any recommended tool that you use to do that? I usually just zoom out to like when I just zoom out or like if I if there's something specific or like it's a Windows machine, I usually just ask a friend, I would know a friend who has a Windows machine. So sometimes color, like especially grays, I will send it to them allows them to take a photo with their camera and stuff like that. Like, so a lot of this stuff happens. And with the camera does that work? Once it was terrible because I use a shade of gray which you had like, which I saw as gray, but like, because I was on a Mac and then the clients kept saying but this green that is there and I kept thinking they're saying gray wrong. And then later on they told me they're actually seeing green and when they took a picture, like the gray actually appears green. That was a huge lesson learned for me. So for me, it really helps to just call someone who has like a large monitor and says send me a screenshot from your legs. So that would be the easiest way I feel. Yeah, going and going by the trends, I think the larger desktop thing, if you can ask for the grid right up front, that can be the best way to make everything more deterministic as a handover from the designer, because not just the last desktop, I think the tablets and many the portrait and the landscape orientations that you talked about, Hamza, many of these things become an afterthought. Like, and I think the starting premise that you started off with, which is we do think of the mobile and the desktop design is something that I would often question because I encounter lots of designers who start off with one and that's usually the desktop. And that's where you start and you're not even thinking the mobile because you're so focused in laying out and getting your creative juices flowing for the desktop view that you're not taking the mobile as standard. So that itself, which started off as a premise, I would say something that needs a good degree of self-awareness when you get into a project that take these two things at least and start off always. And that's an important bit. They just let's take, they just go ahead and ask your question. Hey, Hamza, I wanted to understand a little bit more about if you could go back to those five or six columns of different typefaces that you had selected. Oh, don't get me started. We have a session. Hopefully on that. Just give me a second. So two things here. One. Oh, sorry. Is it auto play? No, no, no. I, by mistake, skipped. Yeah. Yeah. So, so two things. One is how do your line heights and this block of typography and weight of it, like visual weight of it impact your grid system? I wanted to understand a little bit more about that. Specifically, your graphic and second thing. How, how do you factor in the baseline grid and how do you relate it with your column? Okay. Cool. So, so the first question is about, like, how does the typography itself dictate the grid, right? So, are normal for reading the best kind of, like, amount of space to give us about 10 words, 10 words, like a line, right? So say, while these are all equal widths, if I had to kind of, like, create, like, a 22-point size, which is what this is laid out on, in the same width to have different, to have 10 words each, to fit 10 words each, all of these will have different widths. So that is one thing. And the other thing is that the line height over here, like, when you, when you have, like, a little bit of a lighter type phase that has a slightly more breezier line height, the amount of space you would need on the right and left of it become a lot more. Whereas when you look at something as condensed as this, which is, so the different attributes at play here are the font thickness, like the weight of the font. So whether it's like a bold, medium light, whether the line height is slightly like kind of grand and suppose the letter forms itself, are they a little bit more like condensed versus a little bit more wider? So when you have all of these three attributes and you equate them, you realize that, like, when you squint your eyes and see, this kind of appears like a darker block than this block. So whenever it's a lighter block, you will need a little bit more space for around it. And hence, this kind of dictates the gutters in which you lay them out. So because it's a denser block, you would need a slightly lesser gutter, but when it's like a, like when you have a font that is slightly like lighter, you will have like a breezier, you will have a thicker gutter over here. Quick, quick, quick follow up on this bit I have, Hamsa. Is it also, does this dictate how far someone is from the screen to comfortably read as well? And that is why the spacing between the blocks can be, if you're too close, then the spacing obviously appears more if you're too far than you need more spacing around it to make, to distinguish the two blocks of text. Is that also a factor? I think viewing distance would be a factor for sure. And that's why like when you're doing it with, like it would be a factor, but I don't know how much it would be a factor. Here I'm saying in the same viewing distance, two typefaces would have different gutters. But maybe I'm saying that two typefaces automatically dictate what the viewing distance is going to be. So sometimes you pick a typeface and the viewing distance, someone will hold it a little away. And if, and the dense fonts, you would probably bring it a little closer to read it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also that's also how like display typefaces and body typefaces work as well because of the viewing distance. And that's why they used in slightly larger typesize because display typefaces don't have to have the heavy lifting of legibility as much as like the shorter, the smaller typefaces need to have. Right. Another question they just said. Yeah, baseline grade, right? Yeah, but I still had a like small follow-up on the previous page if you could go back. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah. Okay, so on this, I like, this is a really today I learned thing because I would think the exact opposite. I would think like a heavier typeface needs little more gutter and little more spacing around it because it's already very heavy. Like it on that screen area, it's already looking a little bit heavier. My assumption was that it would be exactly opposite. Like with heavier things, you would need slightly more air around it was say the typefaces which are already light. It's already light, you could like be a little bit a little bit tight with your margins and other spacing. Okay, okay. Yeah, good TIL. Now we can move to the next question about how that relates with the column and margins and like your overall grade. Okay, so that's a really good question. And it's, I have a slightly controversial opinion about baseline grade itself. I use something, baseline grades come from a print point of view. And I... Please explain the terms as well, Hamzad, I should agree. So a baseline grade kind of helps you draw lines below. Like it kind of say, for example, a four pixel baseline grade would mean that your entire vertical height is divided into rows of four pixels and every content that you have sits on these rows, right? So a lot of the way that baseline grades work is that content sits only on these rows so that the motive of baseline grades is that there is vertical rhythm. Now I was, I am still a very heavy advocate of baseline grades for print because you're looking at the canvas in its entirety and you're kind of looking at your flipping pages and looking at everything in its entirety. So I feel for things to sit exactly where they're supposed to sit is an important thing for print. But for where I've found a difference in opinion is that I like to use a modular scale rather than a baseline grid system where I'm creating vertical rhythm but I'm creating it with a modular scale. And I think a link, if you just Google modular scale you'll see that, so suppose you go into say a Microsoft word, right? And you go into putting a type, like you start typing something and you want to edit the font size. It has, when you open the dropdown it has 10, 12, 14, 16, et cetera. It has all of these different types, says that it goes all the way to 96. The reason that it has that is because Google has defined that that is the modular scale for all of its Google products. So the same way what I do is when I have a typeface like say for example I have, I'm using Railway for a project or Roboter for a project or something new for a project. I realize that the same scale that Google is providing me or the same 12, 16, 24 scale that life has provided me does not work too well. So what I like to do is go to modularscale.com I think and calculate a scale that works really well for my measurements. So that's kind of, that's why I don't use baseline for print basically. If you were to replace the phrase, like I think I've used it wrongly. If we replace the baseline, the concept of baseline grid with say modular scale. So you have a vertical rhythm, right? Yes. Is there a way to utilize the same vertical rhythm or create a relationship between that vertical rhythm with your column bits, like your overall vertical horizontal bits? That's yeah, that's a good question. So the only relationship that I would kind of build in this thing is where if I want someone to read things from left to right, I would keep lesser spacing between the contents like this. Whereas when I want someone to read something from top to bottom, I would spread out the horizontal space more and keep more tighter vertical spacing over there. So that's the only way. The reason I would do that is because of an intention that I want someone to read something or consume something in a certain way. So if I wanted to do that, the way I see the relationship work and it's not consciously at work anywhere else, but the way I see it consciously at work is suppose the gutter then becomes that thing for me to know that, okay, this is the space between these two. If I use a space lesser than the gutter for a vertical thing, that would mean that people will read this first instead of reading the horizontal thing first. So for me, it's more to do with like the relative, what is the space I'm using vertically relative to the gutter spacing that is there. Understood. So for example, your line height is like say 32 pixel or something, but your gutter is 24, right? Like two columns is 24, but your paragraph line height is 32 pixel. And then to maintain that, you're also adding a margin at the bottom which is 32 pixel. So your horizontal blocks are far apart than your vertical two things next to each other, okay? Yeah. That's some designer geeky happening right there in between the questions. Okay, we are at 12, 16. We want to be ending this session in about 10 minutes or so. If there are any final questions, please drop a text on the chat or please raise your hand. I have a couple of questions that I want to close off with. One is that I want to definitely take up or discuss that point which you started off with, wherein you said that 12 columns start with 1200 pixel. It's so easy to divide 100 pixels per column. Does it really matter? That because eventually what we saw was you were directing everything from the Guttall spaces and the margins. And in some cases Guttall and margins were also equal in the desktop space as well. The columns just figured out for themselves, right? So can we make the 1200 pixel decision of whichever viewport you're talking about independent of what is actually the number of columns? Yes, yes, completely. I think it was more for the, I should add that that easy multiplication was the purpose of this demo. I think it would have taken something like 1366 or something or I wouldn't, yeah, like it would be a little bit more complicated. So it was mostly the 1200 was an arbitrary number taken for the purpose of this demo. Right, so if you come down to that slide where you had shown all the views and the ranges 506 to 900 pixels and stuff, I think there's one very interesting thing that I do want to highlight in that because that is something that we had learned and discussed that also sometime back in a project that you were doing, then next one where you show the breakpoints, defining the breakpoints, yeah, perfect. So one of the things that in these breakpoint decisions and I don't know how you go about taking this, so please follow it up with Hamsa, how you decide eventually where should the breakpoint be? You suggest a 900 pixel breakpoint over here. So there's a one at 500, one at 900, one at 1200 at this point of time, at least what I can see as breakpoints. And what we had learned a few years back was pick breakpoints where a break in the screen is least likely to happen. I'll just invert it in a way that when we started out doing responsive design, we would always take 320 pixel as the mobile width and we would pick a breakpoint at around 320 to 360 pixel. But what we realized and learned by around 2016, there was a very interesting article that had came out and they said that because devices vary a lot in sizes, you can't pinpoint and say that a mobile width will end at 320 pixel or 350 or 360. It's better to not have a breakpoint where common device ends. Better to have a breakpoint where a device, a standard device is least likely to end. What that imply is a larger number of mobiles will fit into your mobile breakpoint. And which is why a choice of 500 over here suddenly makes a lot of sense to me. Instead of say 360 or 400, where lots of mobiles will start ending because 500 will safely take in all mobiles together in one of those things. And as a result, we have started doing our breakpoints at around about the things that you have pointed out, like around 500 or sometimes 600 and at around 900, at around 1200 or more rather than the standard sizes of 320 pixels, 768 pixel, 1024 pixels, which are the common points that we always use to follow earlier. So is this a deliberate thing at your end as well, following the same principle or are there other reasons for... No, I think you forwarded that article to me in 2017. I think that's how this came from as well, where like that article also made a lot of sense. So I think this came from that project that we were working on together where... I'll share the link of the article on the chat window, just in case anyone wants to just further... It's a really nice article. Very nice article. What about using... Oh, sorry, sir. Yeah, go on. Content as a... How about using your content as a guide for your breakpoints? Would you take that question? I think this is mostly to do with... The thing is, if you go into the content bit over here, I think the way that this would break, like suppose the 12-column thing, the way this entire principle would change is that if you have a 12-column grid, if my 12-column grid threshold does not go down to 900, it goes down only to 1,000 along with all of my typography from mobile, it basically depends on threshold also. So if you want to pack a lot more content over here, but your 900 is not going to allow the same layout to happen, you need to tweak it, and that's when you put elements on this grid to test it, to see whether that works and then take that call. But this is basically to do a lot with the threshold of how your components can hold up in a grid like this. So if I know that 1,100, for example, like Sawvik mentioned, that 1,100 or 1,024 is that breakpoint around which I need to break. So I want to ease down a little bit before that. So maybe I will go up to like 1,000 to kind of make sure that, like this number could go up to 1,000 just to make sure that this content is sitting well over here. Does that answer well? Digas, there's also one more question, Hamza, on the chat if you can take a look. So Selvain asks, is alternate way where you start by defining total content area and then derive gutter margins in relation to that, also a legitimate method? I haven't tried that actually, but I think for me it would be a little difficult to, I think it would be great to do that for single page websites and stuff, or I'm just seeing my, if I had to apply it, but for a website that needs to be like a design system where I want developers also to kind of like take, be a little bit more freedom once they have freedom, free to kind of dictate how things work and make the entire thing a little more predictable, but I honestly haven't tried that approach. So I wouldn't know the way of defining content area and then defining the rest of it based on that. Right, makes sense. Sometimes it's very hard to define a total content area. I think that also might be a challenge in many ways. Coming back to the breakpoints bit, one of one other popular method earlier used to be, start with the mobile and keep expanding it until your design breaks. That's when you select the breakpoint. So that is something that we never mentioned or talked about at this point of time. So do you follow that idea at any point of time that keep stretching your design and introduce a breakpoint only if required? If I don't have any device priority of tablets, like in a recent project, like tablet was a little bit of a priority. So and for that, like I wanted to make sure that as much as I can punch in of this view as possible in the landscape, and I wanted to intend it so that the portrait kind of is working with the mobile thing because I knew this can't scale down. But if tablet is not a priority, I would defer to seeing the threshold of how much the designs individually can hold up for that thing. But if we are thinking, I would go about it more intentionally and say that if we are thinking about the whole system, why not think about what that experience would be? Because once you start visualizing it, there's lesser guesswork. And I feel as a designer, it might be better as the process because they can't visualize the threshold live until they see it in code. Okay, makes sense. Cool, one more thing. Do you still work with pixels? There's a lot of pixels that we are talking about. And what about the newer units that have come in and see us? So yeah, I use like the newest unit I've used is CH which is like the dictating the number of characters that you can fit into a content type. Like so sometimes I actually like put that the width of this should be like 240 CH, so that I know that it's going to take the width is defined by like the content like they suggested. But I like pixels because it allows me to kind of dictate whatever comes from here. If I want to do it with viewport width or anything, it kind of comes from this native understanding of, okay, these are where our devices lie and this is where it comes. So I think at least so far I have defined stuff like this, like the breakpoints by pixels itself. So do you feel that this is also a way in which we are getting jailed to certain ideas that were important before and the world is progressing just like the points as a unit has something that has lots of designers really consumed because for the largest part of their work life, they have been using that as the unit and then we moved on to different units and from pixels also we are moving on to different units and maybe the next generation of designers will be like, who uses pixels? But you know, I also feel like this is a development thing as well. So like suppose I'm giving the handoff like this. Suppose someone gave me as a designer and they gave me a handoff. It would be my discretion also to say that, okay, this 500 pixels, what if it is like 50 REMs, you know? So I think it would be more like that because I actually define everything with REMs in my code or when I'm doing it in design for me, the more native thing, even though I'm familiar with REMs as a developer is like pixels. So just to summarize what Hamsa is saying, while as a designer, you might still, one of these very defined units like pixels which are static, unchangeable, not flexible and fluid units, you might start with that when it gets translated into code, then probably it should convert into relative units or some of the more modern units. Is that a right summary? Yes. Okay, got it. Do you think that all design components, all components that you're designing after you've decided the grids need to always map to the grids? No. How do you break the rule? I think it's also to do with practice a lot. I don't know how you can jump the thing of not adhering to it and then breaking. Even today, if I had to break it, I would foresee if there's a way to work with the grid before I break it. For example, I had a 12-column grid recently and I had to do a five-column people page. So in that, the grid that I used was a custom one, like I just defined the start and end of that content type and said, now divide this by five columns. I didn't literally use the grid, but that's because I found a use case only in that page where it made sense to display five things in a grid from end to end. So that's one place. I also think that you need, you cannot rely on, that is one way of where your ambition is greater than the grid, but I also feel the grid is not enough. Like you need MaxWidth, you need MinHeight, you need all of these things to make sure like your components are working as intended, even if the content in them are not as much as what was there when you designed it statically. So I feel MaxWidth is really helpful for text where you want to make sure that the text, like when I know that my font size is going to be 22 pixels and I know that it's going to, if for 10 words to fit, it needs to be 70 to 720 pixels wide, I would always set that with, I would set a MaxWidth to paragraph so that when it scales up, no matter how much, if the grid scales to 900, my text will stop, absolutely makes sense. So my last question, which I'm changing a bit because my question earlier, my question was about handing it over and talking grids with the developer and you had given a very nice way in which a handover can happen with a developer. It is by far one of the best ways I have seen a handover can come to us if we were developing a site. So you've kind of addressed that question. So I'll just change that a bit. Have you ever tried having conversation of grids with clients and has ever grids been a developer to, are deliverable to clients? And how else that turned out, if at all? Do clients care about grids? They haven't, they don't know about the modular scale I use. They don't know about the grid I use. They have no idea. Like, and the fun part is like, that's where most of the world goes, you know? So for me, it's very invisible, like the client, because I don't expect them to have an opinion about it. Yeah, so this has mostly been something between the designers and the developers who have had to always figure it out. All right, thanks a lot. We are almost at the end of our time and for our session. It's really, really great to have you, Hamsa. It was a fantastic session. We are planning to do a few more sessions in the future. I am not like Apple, who will keep everything under wraps until it's launches. But I will also say that we are trying to figure out how can we have a typography-related sessions with Hamsa and also maybe have more involvement in that from other designers as well. If any of you are interested, beyond typography also, if any of you are interested in knowing any other aspect of web design, want to pitch in a subject area where you can come in and have a conversation like how Hamsa did, please go to hasgeek.com slash content web. Over there, you can either put in a proposal, you can also directly reach out to hasgeek or to me and we can have a quick conversation because we are lining up these sessions from almost every Saturday.