 I've got eight o'clock on my computer here so let's let's get started. Welcome to a special meeting of the Longwood Housing Authority. I appreciate you all making arrangements to be here on fairly short notice. So I'll start by calling the meeting to order and then asking Olivia to do a roll call. Right. Can everyone hear me? Okay. Just making sure. I see Chairman Cameron Grant, Vice Chairman Tim Waters, Commissioners Tom DeBee, Jean Christopher, Arlene Zortman, Harold Dominguez, and I also see Kathy Fetler. Oh, and Polly Christensen. Thank you. Item number two is public invited to be heard. Olivia, do we have any email from members of the public that would like to speak today? Not Chairman. Okay, so we will move on to item number three, which is the only discussion item on the agenda. And just for everyone's clarification, this is kind of an informational discussion. The relationship between the Housing Authority and the city is moving well, but there are a lot of moving parts. And, you know, given some of the activity that's happening a month between board discussions and board guidance to the people that are out in the world doing things feels like a long time. Specifically, tonight the City Council has a study session where they will be discussing the Housing Authority, how things are working, the report that we reviewed at our last meeting. And so there are people talking about the Housing Authority. And then in addition, next Tuesday they will be discussed, the council will be discussing Housing Authority again. And I received via Dr. Waters an email from the mayor asking the LHA board to present the council next Tuesday specifically on the issue of the value that the city staff is providing to the LHA currently. And I think that will be in the context of councils, probably their general evaluation of the relationship, but the specific question is whether or not and how the council might compensate those city staff people that are working on this. But because some information is being asked of us, I wanted to be comfortable that everybody on the board had the opportunity to weigh in on this discussion and that we kind of presented an LHA communication on this rather than a Cameron or Tim or Harold communication on this when we talk to people. In that regard, I asked yesterday, Kathy, some questions about what the city staff is doing and how it compares to the value of and the cost of what LHA staff had been doing in the past. It was a very short notice email, so I didn't expect a whole lot of information, but in typical Kathy fashion, I got an extremely thorough response that I've just emailed to all of you. I apologize for not getting it out to you sooner, but it does give a good picture in an abbreviated form of just what is going on behind the scenes. And so I don't have a specific question for you other than wanting to have a discussion so that we can get a more globally or holistically present this to the council probably tonight and next Tuesday. So maybe the first thing to do would be to go around the table to see if there are any initial comments. And then second, I wanted to dig into the email that Kathy sent just so we have a feel for what's happening behind the scenes. Tom. I actually have an overall question. Are we talking about more of a temporary reimbursement to the city or is this going to be an ongoing basis for say the positions that, you know, we might not be filling out the housing authority that the city will be, I guess, assuming. I mean, what's the overall discussion here? I'll give you my quick answer and then maybe Harold can give us some more nuanced response. But my quick response is we don't know. I think right now the city is just working. We've all, everyone's jumped in with both feet. I think they might have thought they were jumping in to the deep end, not the abyss, but they're kicking like crazy trying to figure out when they stop sinking. We do not have anything specific to consider right now. We don't have a proposed IGA. We don't have any changes to the LHA budget. We're kind of, this is just the initial discussion to get us to what it might look like. So I don't know the answer. Potentially both. So when you, if you remember the conversation when we talked about pulling some of the back office functions over on a more permanent basis, that will be more of an continuing ongoing cost. Really where you probably see it in that arena is in the IT department. Some of the other departments were not expecting a lot of volume. And really it's going to be more to take advantage of the global contracts that we have in place for concrete, things like that via the purchasing department. Part of the need for the IGA is, so we know that we're probably going to have between 100 and $150,000 of expenses in order to just stabilize the IT system so it can work and ensure that we have the appropriate security pieces in there. One of the things I'm evaluating right now is the ability to use CARES funding that we have in order to cover that and in order to get that funding in, we have to have an IGA pretty quickly because it all has to be spent by the end of the year. And so there may be an IT piece to this in terms of a, what's the position called a support position to really help with devices? But I'm still working through that this week. Some of it may be very interim in terms of positions that are working now and that then may not be working on this in a month, two months, whatever it is. So it's probably, it's going to be a combination of both. Any other general comments or questions? I'll just get the right answers. Yeah, please. Well, I think people should be compensated for work that they have done. I guess my concern is sort of like Tom said, is this going to be ongoing? And if it is, how's that going to be worked into the budget? And again, I know that those are questions that probably can't be answered now. But from what I can see, staff have really been working hard on this and they deserve some kind of compensation. So I'm definitely behind that part of it. I kind of looked at the numbers, but I'm sure you're going to get into a little bit later and kind of wonder about where we're at as far as that goes. So I think Kathy and I can jump in on that one if you all want that information. Let me throw one little bit of background just in terms of our current structure. In our bylaws, we did, you know, a revision this spring create the position of executive board member, which was, you know, Arlene to bring up the speed that, you know, that was part of the IGA with the city that we wanted to establish a way for Harold to be on the board, but also essentially fill the void while we don't have an executive director. So he, he has all of the, the authority and burdens of an executive director. However, we're not allowed to compensate a board member. So he gets all the work and none of the benefit. So that's relevant to think about in terms of what we do and how we communicate that to the city. So for now, to the extent there's anything going that direction, it's probably has to be from us to the city and then the city figures it out unless we make some change to our setup. Okay. And then Jean. Cameron just for my two cents worth. It's hard for me to imagine where we would be as an agency. Had the city turned away from LHA as opposed to toward LHA. No CEO, no CFO. Seven vacancies. And, and virtually no chance, no prospects for, for recruiting a CEO or a CFO. And I just, I can't imagine honestly, the conversations we would be in. And then who's, who's, who's housing would be at risk because of where we found ourselves. So with that said, I think we have an obligation, both with my LHA board member had on. I think we have an obligation to say to the city and to the city council. This is the value that we believe the city brought to LHA. This is, this is not only do we appreciate it, but this is, this is how we estimate the impact, both to us and in the, in, in the city. So whatever conversations occur around compensation, that's going to be a city council decision as far as Harold's concern and then Harold's decision regarding his staff. But I think we have a clear obligation to make a clear statement to the community and to the council. Here's the value we place on what the city's done. And frankly, we don't have enough money, I think in our budget to adequately reimburse the city for what the city's brought. So we're going to have to come up with something that we think that respects and honors that as a general proposal or recommendation or, or feedback to the city council in my opinion. Tina, I think you had something. I'm going to support just what Tim said. I am a little disturbed that the city staff has been working without compensation from us. I think we have a huge obligation to take care of that problem. And if I'm hearing Tim right, we probably could put a total amount that we can afford by the end of the year from now to the end of the year to cover city staff expenses. It's going to take a while to get us up and running with an LHA staff as such. And looking over the information, I just got it in my email this morning about the vacant positions and kind of readjusting that. I think that would, that's part of this discussion is to look at that. But definitely we need to put some money forward that covers city expense, city staff. You're still on mute. Sorry. I thought it was unmuted. Thank you. I really appreciate what you said, Cameron, about the city jumped in with both feet. And I think maybe they thought they were jumping into the defense. Not the abyss. I tried to tell Harold this, but. You know, I personally wish that we were not being. You know, forced by the mayor to bring this all this up publicly right now when it is in such a. A state of flux because until city staff does more Harold and city staff do more analysis of how to restructure this in a feasible way and a workable way. Then it will. I think that is a complex situation. We know all of us exactly how. Difficult a situation. This is as a councilman water said, if. The city had not stepped in, we would be in a. Dyer, Dyer situation and 400. Residents plus would be in a dire situation. So. I would like this. To be cast, not as compensating staff. For this, but as. Taking. Because people are already very, very worked up about. Giving Harold another. Giving Harold more money. It isn't. It is too. We already have. In the budget. Compensation for the executive director that we don't have yet. So this is not like. This is, we are going to have to come up with the money. The money already has been budgeted to pay people who are no longer here. And this will help the city. Perhaps hire some extra people for the interim. Or compensate staff for what they're already doing. And we certainly do need to. Use that money. We do need to be able to do that. We do need to be able to do that. We do need to be able to do that. We do need to be able to do that. We do need to be able to do that. And. And I'm glad you pointed out, Cameron, that we are not. As a board allowed to compensate. Any board member. And because Harold is a board member, but because he's also the city manager. If we turn over some money. That compensation. That is already in our budget to. The city to. That's a better way to publicly present this. Because. You know, these are very difficult times as we all know. And people are very riled up about anybody who gets $5 more than they get. That sort of thing. So. Yeah, I do think as councilman water says, we need to make us. Make a strong stand that this is to compensate. So. You know, you can only do that for so long. So that it doesn't matter how much money you have. You can only do that for so long. So anyway. Thank you. That's my opinion is that. Just as a board, take a strong stand that this is money. That is already in the budget of LHA. We're just redistributing it to people who are now doing the work. And. Leave it at that. Thanks. Tim. Just to build on that, just to clarify a bit. From my perspective, I don't, I think it's a, as Polly suggests, it's going to be the Harold's job and the council's job. Once money arrives at the city to decide what to do with it. So I don't, I don't feel an obligation. To come to a number in terms of how much money we need to be allocated within the city. My point is. If I think it will be irresponsible on our part. If we don't make a very clear statement about the, our estimate of the value. That the city brought to LHA. And the consequences to the city if they didn't. Right. Whatever the politics are, the play out of it. I don't think it's going to be. If we give Harold 50 cents more than he's paid, somebody's going to be pissed. And at the end of the day, not that I don't care, but that will not determine how high vote on this board or on that council. Right. For me, there's, there's, there's no question. Where we would be without the city. And I have all the people who are making sacrifices in this. Right. Whatever the politics are the play out on the council side of this, whatever the public discourse is. If we give Harold 50 cents more than he's paid, we're going to lose it. But if we give Harold 40 cents more than it is to. And what happens if they don't make any sacrifices in this? Our residents aren't sacrificing. I hope they're not. June, you could confirm that. I hope our residents aren't sacrificing. Because of the turmoil within the agency. I don't know about LHA staff and the degree to which there are sacrifices being made. The only sacrifice we're making as board members as we drop an extra meeting in here. But I can tell you there's a list of people that we got. dropped anything there's nothing that the city isn't doing that they were doing before this under a pandemic the city can't afford to not do what they were doing all that all Harold and his team have done is continue to add to their load and their families have said see you later right because they just keep saying yes so you know yeah I'm fired up about it because I think I think it will be I said well shirk our responsibility if we let someone else not on this board decide what statement we make about value and how much we appreciate that what the city's done on behalf of our entire affordable housing initiative in this town how do you intend to get this message out to the public Arlene if I had that answer to that I'd be doing some well I you know you do know Arlene knows I have I've written something and I wrote it maybe it was as much therapeutic as anything else I wrote it in response or at not response to after seeing a letter to the editor in the Times call last Friday I it's like I just couldn't not do something I haven't done anything with it and I and I won't do anything with it if depending on how the I don't want to give more oxygen to to whatever subset of our population brings a scarcity mentality to everything has a fundamental just distrust in government and everybody who works for the government and sees anything that happens to Harold is somehow a loss to them right I am you know I'm not gonna change their minds but I did draft something not on behalf of the LHA Oregon not on behalf of the council simply on behalf of Tim Waters the only person in town that gets to vote on both of these boards so I do bring that perspective to this to make a statement that's where I stand not like I said I don't know what I'm gonna do with it and I don't if I don't pretend that that's gonna influence anybody's opinion but but my message at the end of the day for those folks who want to slap around the city and the city staff rather than objecting to compensation just ought to say thank you that's that's my message you know I was I was kind of thinking through this from the LHA perspective I don't want to conflate what council has to deal with tonight and next week with what we have to deal with but I'm also sensitive to wanting to make a strong statement it is it too watered down from the LHA side if we take the people out of it and and talk about city you know as I look at it we we have money in the budget as as Polly pointed out we've got Jillian's money Kente's money plus the some open positions you know not that we're we're raking in the cash but we have budgeted money set aside that we're currently not using as I look at Kathy's email with a quick summary of what the city has been putting in since we started this process back in March I haven't done the math I'll leave that the math to Tom but I can tell you the money we have to spend is a drop in the bucket compared to the effort that's coming in we we couldn't afford the services that we're getting on our budget but we're still getting the services right now we're getting them for free you know so on a very basic level if we take a hundred percent of what we have budgeted and available and say thank you city we know this is not enough but this is what we have to give you what you do with it as your business it's not our business this is money we were gonna spend we're still gonna spend it for this you take it from here and then maybe tend to address your point in terms of of the value that we've received you know that dollar amount doesn't even begin to talk about the value I mean that's that's nice that we've replaced staff people that that this board had assembled over time and that our staff have assembled over time with with kind of the varsity team coming in to show us how it's really done but on a on a bigger picture level we've rescued the Aspen Meadows rehabilitation which was you know on a ventilator being ready to be shut off that's now viable five million dollar rehab project which is is pretty significant I hard to put a dollar amount on it but it's pretty significant benefit particularly for those people living there and for the good place to start with that yeah and for the organization as a whole because it's an asset that we we now have that has a useful life that extends well beyond where it would have fall river you know when I lose track of the timeline sometimes but fall river opened up and was ready for occupancy about the time that the whole world shut down and had we been on our own I'm pretty confident we would have floundered in trying to figure out how the heck to even get people to come look at a place like this when they're afraid to leave their houses the city accepted and figured it out came up with a whole new way of of filling up our wait list and filling up our project and the thing got leased up in now 30 days something like that so we don't even know the value of that because the value is avoiding the catastrophe and then on the biggest picture level that I think it's what councilman waters just alert alluded to is our residents hopefully are not feeling the negative impact of this there's a lot of of burden being shouldered but what we're what I think is happening is it's happening behind the scenes and the people that we are here to serve still have what I would not sit at a good housing they've got some pretty spectacular housing in a lot of cases and we're trying to make some of the good housing even better we're maintaining the services that we're we're all charged with maintaining and in terms of you know the mayor's request of communicate to council the value yeah I mean I can't put a dollar amount on it but you know it's it's like that old commercial you know an executive director's $150,000 you know keeping housing available for our residents priceless you know so it's not about we couldn't do it with definitely without Harold or Kathy or anybody on the team but I don't want to get stuck in that individual discussion because it's a bigger picture discussion from my perspective Jean and then Polly okay I I'm going to address since both you and Tim mentioned the residents the residents are getting they're starting to feel it and particularly at AMA because I don't know exactly what's going on so I can't assure them and there hasn't been any communication about what the plans are or how they're going to take place and I know they're still shaping up but when a letter like the one that appeared in the Times call shows up they start getting really antsy and I don't have answers for them I don't need answers for them I just need to be able to reassure them things are moving forward in respect to something else you said about let's give you know a lump sum to the city I'm I'm more inclined to I'd like to keep track of where our money is and what we've got so I'm sure that and having looked at that email Kathy's got a good handle on the hours that people are involved that staff are involved and what does that cost and I'd like to see that tracked simply because it's LHA money and we're not dumping into the general fund did you see where I'm coming from the I just like to keep track of it I I I want to give it as much as we can but I think we also need an accounting of it Holly now I've done both oh well Cameron I like your approach because this is also a unique opportunity to explain to the city what Longman Housing Authority does and provides to the city and has for since the 70s I believe so yes the city is providing a lot of services right now and a lot of backup and the city has an absolute commitment to continuing that to continuing to help and perhaps take over the services of Longman Housing Authority that has to be worked out because it's very complex but Longman Housing Authority continues to have an absolute commitment to helping the citizens of this city who are low income having housing and I don't think other than this board I think very few people in the city understand what Longman Housing Authority does do it's really incredible and if people understood that there are 400 households that are housed by Longman Housing Authority that's that's a lot and both organizations I really like your your positive approach to this both organizations have an absolute commitment to continuing that and if you would tell people what service I mean how many different facilities we have that this has been going on since the 70s that we're going to continue to do this to reassure the both the people who live there and also the city that this is this is you could call it a glitch but it's a little bit bigger than a glitch but this is a temporary situation that needs to be straightened out in terms of organizational structure and various other processes so I like your approach of it not just avoiding a catastrophe but making two organizations come together and be more efficient be more cost effective that's what people are looking for from their government and their organizations that they're cost effective and that they are efficient and that they also genuinely care about the people that they're serving so I like your approach there thanks Harold and Kathy have been awfully quiet during this discussion yeah I'm not getting in this one not surprised what I know is the mayor asked that you be part of the city council agenda for that early item special presentation or recognition that kind of thing that's on the 15th that morning we have an LHA board meeting I'd like to know will we be prepared I think I think this is your intent I just want to reinforce or clarify that the intent would be on that warning of September 15th that we would we would polish or can sign off on a statement from the LHA board that you will present to the council that evening is that is that fair that that's fair I'd what I'd like to have if that's what the board is comfortable with is is a letter from the LHA board to city council I don't want it to be from me to the mayor or anything I want us to have a statement and that's and I wasn't comfortable waiting until the 15th to try to hit that so I wanted to start the discussion today so I appreciate that we're intruding on everyone's daily lives here a little bit unexpectedly but that's the discussion I wanted to start so that we're in a really good position two weeks from now to polish it off it can be signed from the board I'm happy to be the voice that presents it but I don't want this to be my statement I want it to be a board statement gene you're on your gene what do you see as the content of that letter do you see it as as saying this is this is an amount to that that LHA is going to give the city to support the staff do you see it as addressing the vacancy needs kind of the ideas that you had in this email do you see it as looking forward to the development of the full IGA what have you how do you see that letter coming together the short answer is yes I'll give you the longer answer though and I would defer a lot to our two city council people for guidance on what would be most meaningful to their body but when I look at it I think you know who's our audience for this the request came from the mayor the letter will go to council but it will be part of the public presentation so I mean I think we have to think about the larger audience that's going to see this so without being going to overboard with it I kind of like it to be a little bit of a background on what the heck the LHA is what what do we do yeah most of the people watching or reading this in the newspaper if they remember what the LHA is they equate it with with dogs doing searches you know which is not what it is and not where we want to go so we I think we tell a little bit of the story of who we are what you know what what what we're about the people that we serve the evolution of what happened over the past couple of years as Jillian came in and helped us I think uncover some systemic challenges that we have in the way that that our organization has been structured roll in do a little bit of our discussions with the city but hey we could use your help exploring this which then very quickly accelerated into pandemics and Jillian leaving and all sorts of issues that brought us to where we are today so a little bit of that background and then maybe an assessment of what's coming in from the city in terms of value and then the concluding piece would be we we can't afford the services that we're getting but we have budgeted funds set aside for the kinds of things that we could afford and our proposal or our charge to the city is let us let us use this money for services and by the way we are very grateful that that we're getting a lot more than we're paying for something like that would be a start yeah okay subject to everybody's input and tweaking before it goes out the door and if that sounds okay I mean I'll I'll take a stab at an initial draft and then we can circulate that you know between now and next Tuesday with the hope that when we when we turn on the cameras on Tuesday it's final or close to final and and we can all say yes this is our statement go ahead and deliver this in terms of timing Kathy or Harold if this is going to the city when would we need to get it to them to make sure it's actually in a packet I don't want to wait until Tuesday after our board meeting when they've got me on Tuesday night well it would have to even have to be in today today yeah so what I would do is I don't think there's any way other than when you all finish it in the morning we will get it to dawn and addendum and is an addendum and so you all could see it so the council could see it ahead of time okay that's the only way I think really do it which is not unusual we get materials every week handed to us not every week but frequently at the beginning of the meeting all right so we'll we'll have it ready in advance of next Tuesday mornings meeting with the goal that will approve the final version of it have that meeting and get it out the door the part of this is sorry isn't it two two weeks from now oh shoot you're right I'm losing track oh that's right it's the 15th right if unless y'all wanted to have another special meeting Winston the meeting for LHA's in the 15th right yes yep unless you wanted to have a special meeting next week to do the letter then we could get it more we could put it at least put it in the prep packet no later than the 11th so defer to you again on this what's the value of having it in the packet versus having it the day of with the presentation I think that it's out I mean people see it yeah I mean that's that's the big value people see it I mean we'll put stuff it's not in common for us to adjust an item up until a Friday we also provide stuff the day up but it's typically things that clarification so you could hit it by the 11th or unless you wanted to have another special meeting earlier in the week so so we're capable of doing it I don't want to intrude on everybody more than necessary but if it's the board's pleasure we could get this drafted in the next day or so circulate it and and reconvene in a week and both give it a rubber stamp any objections to doing that we do have to be careful how you circulate it based on open meetings so a leave me out of that but the we'll work with you on the open meetings piece okay well if unless I hear any objections to it I think we'll put together a draft figure out how best to get that in front of you all to review and provide some comments appropriately and then the eight o'clock next Tuesday work for everyone or do we want to pick a different time that's good and presumably that can be a fairly targeted discussion doesn't have to to drag on unless there's other business we need to discuss as well okay so let's plan that and then the the second thing that kind of ties into that is the overall IGA I don't think we have anything specific to discuss today but just be prepared that at some point we're going to be amending that IGA that we have with the city and I think it's the expectation that we'll probably be amending it fairly routinely as this whole situation evolves yeah try to try to do it without a lot of extra meetings but just be prepared for it yeah the first thing that we've got to figure out time-wise is the IT component and then some of the back office functions and then after that will then be probably facilities maintenance if you all have a couple of minutes and I wanted to answer some of the questions that were asked yeah okay so it looks right right now and I'm pushing some different questions in looks like there's about an annual savings of a hundred and ninety six thousand at this point I saw a different spreadsheet that Kendra's been working on Kathy I don't know what you had in the email that you sent him should have a specific number I we just had Jillian's comp can taste comp and then a listing of a bunch of hours that staff's putting in yeah the the other thing that we're trying to figure out is we also got the 3p loan which is forgivable so we've got to figure out how that comes into the number it could theoretically be over 300,000 available in that I also wanted to show you all I'm going to share my screen I've added two slides to the presentation that you all saw and this will probably answer some of the questions from Tom and Arlene I can do that real quick so can you all see my PowerPoint yes so the first one is I misspelled that I wanted to put this slide in after the vision because I think that's really something you all have talked about today something that we really need to reinforce as we're continuing to go forward the other slide that I've added is really kind of a sense of what we're doing and that we're rebuilding the foundation you can see it finance organizational culture everything that we've talked about hiring critical vacant position community managers maintenance techs accountants defining the roles responsibilities procedure structure and then evaluating evaluating leadership bank vacancies and long-term structure I think that kind of gave a sense as to how we were moving through this and what we were trying to look at we're getting ready to head into the budget so we'll be talking to you all about this yeah I was just having to balance the financials here and the budget here with the budget that we're doing at city we're presenting that but I'm presenting that budget tonight so Kathy's already started getting pinged by me I think starting like it for this morning on this budget and what we have to do but I you know again I want to reinforce that what we're talking about is 12 to 18 months and I think the epiphany that I've had in this that is starting to clear up in my mind a little bit is you know and I made this comment yesterday what we had is what we have is an organization that is not it's not a small house it's a middle-of-the-road housing authority so it gets put in a really awkward position because small housing authority doesn't necessarily need all of the back office functions and everything that you have to have in place it's not a large housing authority where they have the capacity to do it and so what you really end up with is we're in this odd position and and when you look at the amount of money and whether we're sustainable over time you know what we need to focus on is really those positions that where the rubber meets the road and then how do we we cover those other components in different ways and and that's something that we're going to be working on so what you're probably going to see is an evolution of the budget and some of this is dependent on the very conversation you had today in terms of how we budget and what we look at in the future and so we'll see you know I told Tim asked me a question yesterday and he goes well where do you really see this and I said a we've got to keep all options open because you can't eliminate any option but honestly the the more I get into this the more that I think unless we can I mean you have two choices you decrease expenses or you raise revenue I mean that's what you have to do but you want to be mindful on raising revenue because that really is in the rent structure and and so as we look at this it really is going to be filling those core positions within the organization so that we can adequately serve the people who live in our facilities and that utilize the the housing choice vouchers and then we're going to have to back up into what that long-term structure looks like in terms of as we as we're talking about the picture of the organization and again I'm going to refer to your email Cameron there were some adjustments to the vacancies that are open and how they should be filled particularly not filling the CFO but putting controller accountant et cetera and I'm looking at also what we've been calling the executive director as the executive director there were two functions operations and development and now that development is on hiatus I'm wondering if we can if we're looking for the head of the organization that we do not call it executive director we're looking for a director and we're looking for somebody that can handle operations as opposed to somebody that also does development I'm tossing that out now because I'd like to be if I considered as all of this is developing we are obviously not a small LHA but we're also not large and I think the pay scale needs to be brought back a little I think we needed the help and we needed to throw money at it last year big time but we we need to look at who we really are and while we want talent we need it in the right places and we don't need to be overpaying for it but we do need to pay enough but I'm I'm just looking at restructuring that director position from executive to simply director just a thought thank you him I just kind of along that line as I understand the the six month 12 month 18 month that structure a decision about how what to think and how to think about a position whether it's a director executive director or deputy director there's probably 18 months down the road based on what I saw in the slides and then and then that in that timeframe and that's in Harold knows I'm gonna ask a question tonight about what is it we need to learn what does he want to learn between now and then to inform whatever decisions we make right there's certain things that I think we all need to kind of learn a process in order to make good decisions when the time comes but in that hybrid model you when you see that deputy director in one of those slides that's a reflection of if if the decision were to be a hybrid then to go out and look for somebody that comes on the city payroll reporting to Harold who takes on operations under Harold's guidance and gets prepped the room developed to potentially step up if we if we relaunch LHA as a as a independent standalone quasi governmental organization or not right if we continue to operate long term with with LHA being a wholly owned you know nonprofit subsidiary for lack of a better way to describe it of the city right real different staffing implications but decision to be made 18 months out I I don't think with any I haven't I don't have the intent of thinking about going casting in that out there to try to recruit executives at this point until we until we get down the road and learn a little bit more I think those are both key points and you know many of you probably saw the the Times call article today about the LHA we spent a little time on on the phone with John Fryer yesterday and as we were talking through that you know a thought was coming into my mind about what would we as a board have done without the city's help and and what difference has the city's involvement made and I think simplistically the difference the city's involvement has made for me is the ability to have these discussions the way that we're having them if we didn't have that rescue from the city we would have learned that Gillian was leaving and we would have scrambled and tried to find somebody to fill an existing role because I think what we would be good at as a board is plugging the holes of a structure that's that's already in place and what this whole process is allowing us to do is step back and really focus on the core of what we're trying to accomplish and rebuild the structure that makes that work more effectively no way we could have done that without the safety net of the city kind of keeping things float while we you know dismantle this and evaluate it and then slowly piece it back together so that's another intangible value to me that we never would have seen without this help and I think we'll come out of this much more constructed to do what we're supposed to do than we would have without this process but it is as you said Tim 12 18 months away before you know and that's our guess hopefully it's not longer than that but before we really do it we're gonna take one I think you know I need to throw a couple of comments in I think when we talk about development it is a short hiatus in development and to until you can reestablish the foundation but you can't not develop or you're gonna perpetuate the financial situation that's currently in as it's as it stands and Kathy if you disagree jump in my thought on the process is if we don't add units and bring more revenue in is definitely not sustainable over time without significant rent increases that totally and the housing authorities in a good position where you already have some vacant land under your control sorry attacked by the dog that that we can move fairly quickly into it's not like you have to go out and find something and and everything as well as I'm seeing what happens with the sunset property and the element project in February even though we wouldn't be developing that necessarily we'd be partnering and getting some fees and some funding from it without having to have the burden of doing the development so yeah and I think so you have three revenue sources rents development fees and the revenue you get from the housing choice vouchers mean generally those are the big three you take any one of those out of the equation and it just spins you again and I think that's what we're trying to figure out well and even beyond the revenue source if you if you think about our mission the city is growing the demand for affordable housing is growing so it's our mission to step up and support that demand and and if we stop developing units whether we do it or we partner with people to do it we're not fulfilling our mission yeah yeah because I want I want to address that my concern and Harold correct me but isn't there a planning commission a part of the city that deals with locating vacant properties etc etc no they were zoning but they don't do development so there there isn't a part of the city that really that does development no okay so as long as we're not replicating and and like you said our hiatus is going to be short but I don't see any need for anything that we're doing to replicate what the city already does but as long as they don't develop then we're going to have to I would rather bring the development process into a more transparent light than what it has been in the past if that's possible I'm going to put that two cents in there too thank you for clarifying because I had I just don't want us replicating what the city can do I can talk about what Tony does does that money with James thinking about yes the Tony does redevelopment which is slightly different where he he's more of an ombudsman with private developers who come in and want to redevelop brown you know brownfield properties but he doesn't initiate the development we partner so for example Kathy and I and Tony have been in conversations with the Boulder County Housing Authority on the development that the property they own we've also partnered with the Housing Authority before I think there is a fundamental question coming to you all in terms of how do you look at the Housing Development Corporation and the Housing Authority as the report stated if we can look at a combination of those two things and again the Development Corporation is going to have to weigh in on this that also strengthens a balance sheet over time for the Housing Authority and then as we look at it is how do you build the partnership with the city to take advantage of the CDBG funds and things like that but in terms of actively creating building projects it's not what we do so that we need to read you know there's going to be a conversation about redefining that partnership and what that looks like and part of it very well may be to your point that the Housing Authority and the Development Corporation choose to pull it in as one that's an option that will be in play so we talk this to death enough so the next steps will be I'll put together a draft of a communication to the council that will circulate appropriately we'll send out a notice of another special meeting for a week from today at eight o'clock and Harold and and Kathy will keep on burning the candle at both ends Harold I wanted to show you those two slides because I didn't want you all to be surprised about well I didn't see those slides when you presented so I wanted you to know that also want to say one thing that to Tim's question of what are we gonna be watching we're gonna be watching the applicant pulls really close in terms of the quality of the applicants that we get and that may be a decision point that pushes things faster in one direction or another one of the things I heard after our meeting with you all that concern me was comments of if I would have known what the situation was I'm not sure I would have signed on the dotted line to become part of the organization and and that's real and and those are things that we're gonna be evaluating as we've opened positions to see quality of applicants we my gut tells me based on what Olivia's informed us is Kathy's rest is it it looks better and so I think it's Karen's dog it's not mine my dogs much better behave so as you know we're gonna be interested in that because if we don't see the quality that we're looking for then we're gonna have to move quickly to find a different way to do it because and and these are just foundational positions these are community managers and and those are the most important positions you can have within a structure and so Olivia indicated hey they look pretty good you know we'll look through them but we're gonna be looking at culture fit and other stuff and if at any point we see where you know we're not getting the type of applicant we want it's highly likely we're moving back pretty quickly to you all going we need to look at something else and so those are all of the variables I just didn't want you to be surprised if you're tuning in tonight you hear me say that because that's a piece of information that I've learned since our last meeting who of your if I'd known then what I know now I wouldn't assign the bottom line is that staff staff there was a guy in the mirror that you stare at in everyone you know I said failures not an option failures not an option so but no I mean that was that was one of those one of those moments when you just you go here's what we have to be mindful of and how do you build a strong organization I'll tell you the folks that are still here phenomenal they're willing to work with us and you'll hear me say that and we're challenging and pushing so I can't be any more grateful for them but I also get their trepidation and we've got to create stability and we've got to have stability last over time or you know we'll be at the bottom of the death spiral we're trying to we're trying to fly out of the death spiral right now and I think we are but we've got to be mindful of all of these issues well good discussion today we'll we'll roll on towards next week and appreciate your time if there's nothing else I would I'll call this meeting closed all right thanks everybody