 North and governors are responsible for insecurity, says Arawa Consultative Forum. And the Nigeria Bar Association says no to the Land Use Act review. Well, this is Plus Politics and I am Mary-Anna Cronin. The Arawa Consultative Forum has blamed North and Governors for the high level of insecurity, particularly in the North and the country at large, describing their abandonment of use in their region over time as a time bomb waiting to explode. It also insisted on dialogue in other regional groups such as the Pan-European, Social-Cultural and Political Organization at Fenifere, its South-East counterpart to Hanez-in-Dibu and the Pan-Niger Delta Forum, to enthrone peace in the North and Nigeria in general. Well, joining us to discuss this is Launrey Suradru. He is a political analyst, Chinidua Honda. He's a retired colonel and Dennis Amakri. He's a former DSS deputy director. Thank you very much for joining us, gentlemen. Before the mic. All right, I'm going to start with you, Mr. Amakri, because of course we're talking about the issue of insecurity. And if a group like this is coming out to point fingers at leaders, especially governors in those regions, then of course it calls to question the people who work with them, security operatives or security experts. And I'm guessing that many governors in the North part of the country obviously have not just relied on our normal security agents, but they must have also experts who are consultants that help them, who might be helping them to deal with the security issue. But when these kinds of statements are bandied, what does that say about security and how the governors are dealing with this in their areas? Well, on the side of the Ariwa consultative people, when they made that statement that the other governors are to be blamed for this. Because, you see, they have not done much for their people. They have basically thought about everything that is happening in the federal government. You know, the president will do it, even when it comes to kidnapping. Kidnapping is something that happens in their locality. Even local government, chairman, they are nonexistent. They are not doing anything. So I believe strongly that yes, the Northern governors have not been able, maybe the exception of one or two or three, otherwise the rest. You can find out that if there is no even a problem in your state, then you are not existing. You don't hear anything about governors who are doing something for their people, schools, and imaginary schools have all been abandoned. The ones that the former president and go put, they have all been abandoned. They've closed down. So you find the people out there, and these are the root causes of poverty. And of course, these root causes are the problems of insecurity. When we say that these governors, I want to believe that you're talking about successive governors, because these governors who are in power today have also inherited some of the problems that they are having in their states. For example, Zamfara, Boronu, these are states that have always been strongholds of Boko Haram, or serious insecurities, for the exception of the states that now have to deal with banditry. But a state like Kaduna state and Plattu state, these are states that have always had issues, either it be riots, it be killings, communal clashes, or religious crisis. They have had these problems, and it's continued to roll over from government to government. So you're telling me that successive governments across the northern parts of the country have just been there, receiving their salaries at the end of the month, collecting monies from RFMAC every other month, but they're not necessarily doing anything. It's the best of the loss of their people. Is this what you're incinerating? That's correct. That's correct because you find out that, look, let me tell you something. I've worked, when I was in service, I've been in some states, and I know that nothing happens in the government until the 25th or so when the finance man goes to Abuja. Everybody knows that the finance man has got Abuja. And then you come back with the monthly salary, and then after they pay the people, and then everybody goes back home. Very few, like I said, you find governors who are doing certain things for their people. So when you also do this, no employment, poverty, all kinds of things, these are the root causes of insecurity. Because why are we having insecurity? People don't have a job, people are just hanging around, and then, of course, politicians will come and incite them. During the election, they will be giving money and they will come there and make noise and disappear. So you find out that the root cause of insecurity, I think, has a lot to do with the performance of governors in the elected states. Interesting. Let me go to Conor Al-Honda, who's joining us live from Port Hackett. Conor Al-Honda, you have been a soldier, a colonel in the army, and you fought for several years, and you not just fought in Nigeria, you have gone for peacekeeping missions outside Nigeria. But what we are facing today in the country in terms of banditry, Boko Haram, and every other agitation from every part of the country. The Northerners, the Arawa Consultative Forum at this point, is pointing fingers to their governors. Now, one of the notable things that we've seen in this era of banditry and kidnapping is that the education is under siege, it's under attack, the schools are the targets of these bandits. And we know that education is the bedrock of every country or every nation, education is attacked, it means that the future of those areas are also, you know, one way or the other under attack. Why do you think that education is targeted as a man who's been in the fields, you know, dealing with issues of peacekeeping or even, you know, war? Well, it is very clear and obvious that the Northern states of Northwest, North Central are the ones mostly involved in this banditry act, abduction of students and some other social vices. First of all, you check the government of Nigeria, the government of Kathina states in the North Central, then the government of Zanfarah, of North and government of Kathina and Sokoto. Those are the areas we have abducted students, they have kidnapped a whole lot of peoples and Islamist students and boarding houses and university students. Now, when you check all those things, you find out that the government is more or less encouraging them. And they have bourgeoisie compared to those that are working with them, working in tandem with them for them to pay high cost of money. I'm sorry, I don't understand. How do you mean the government is encouraging them? How do you mean the government is encouraging them? I don't understand. You said? You said the government seems to be encouraging them. How so? Yes, because of payment of ransom to the banditry. Because what the Kathina state government has done is to make sure that they don't pay ransom even the Greenfield students released was paid for and later they were caught. But those of the government of Niger, Kathina and Zanfarah have been paying ransom to them and these people come back and they arrest or abduct students. So what should the parents be doing? I wonder, put yourself in the shoes of the parents and I'm not in any way saying that it's okay to continue to fund. I'm not saying that it's okay to continue to fund terrorism because paying ransom one way or the other means that we're funding terrorism. But if you put yourself in the shoes of the parents of these students who've been abducted and the fact that maybe security agencies have not been up to power when it comes to dealing with this issue because all we keep hearing is that the army doesn't know where the bandits are but then we see a Sheikh Gumi always going to see these bandits accompanied by security apparatus. So if you were in the shoes of the parents of these people, would you sit down and fold your arms hoping that government will not negotiate and your children will be free? You can't tell me that the army or the security agencies don't know where they are. These people are seen, most of the governors like Matawaleh, the governor of Zanfara, the governor of Katsina they confess that most of these bandits come to the markets openly, hanging rifles on their shoulders and buying goods and cutting it back to the people. So and from the recent talks by Sheikh Abu Bakr Gumi, he said that he goes to their locations to the forest with armed policemen and armed security or military operatives. So these people know their whereabouts, their location and everything. So you can't tell me that. So the question is why is it collaborative? Okay, Sheikh Gumi has also come out to say that there is a collaborative effort between the army and these bandits of course the army has come to say that that's wrong and of course it's fake news but the question on everybody's lips and I'm guessing that's what everybody's thinking right now why is it so difficult to fish out these bandits and then they keep coming day after day, it's become a free-for-all they keep coming back to these schools to keep abducting knowing that ransoms will be paid so if the army says they don't know where these people are or they know where the people are why are they continuously operating and taking more and more people and they don't take just two people, they take 300 sometimes, 100 plus so really are we the ones that are being fooled here or is there something else at play that we really don't understand? Well you may ask me that question also because we may not know how collaborative they are with the higher instinct and I know that, look, these people are working in tandem with the government, agencies to compare who you are with and other agencies that are deciding them to work out because they know their location, they can attack, they have cut apart the place so what are we talking about? and whether we like it or not, the federal government of Nigeria, eyes are on death they are watching the whole world, the whole world is watching them to see what they will do they don't want to end this issue because they are busy cutting away money in millions of dollars that's a very hefty allegation but I'm going to go to Lareh, Lareh these young people are saying that they have been abandoned, they have been forgotten all the promises the government have made to them, none of them have been kept so unemployment is at its highest, the cost of living is rising high these young people of course are idle and it's necessary that they might just become the devil's workshop as a Nigerian, as a citizen and as someone who's analysing this space of the politics that we are discussing this evening and from what you've heard from the two gentlemen, where do we really go from here because we seem to be going around in circles and not really making a headway yeah, thank you actually Mary Ann, and I think it is very important that we understand where we're coming from before we start talking about where we're going this is a situation where you can barely point out any serious state in the north and that is not just in the north, it is also the same thing in south-east it's the same thing in the south-south, it is also the same thing in the south-west that governments are not actually providing a living environment for businesses to try or even for you to start new businesses, except for individual efforts so employment generation is reduced to political patronage so where they pick on some of these young people, give them some token like you have with the social intervention program that is just a kind of palliative but it's not really sustainable, it is not something that you want to affect any major shifts that would come in terms of assuaging the rate and the level of poverty that you have around the country it is not just like you said, it is not something that is starting now it is something that has been there unfortunately even since the advent of the democratic dispensation and it would be very unfortunate if people would only limit this to the current government that is when it becomes political and that is when we are actually looking at the solution to the problem it is something that is really been endemic and that is why very far please go, you can see that many of the northern governors are usually charged to court by either ESCC or ICPs after the leave of it so it means many of the governors in those days have only just been in government many times to steal or divert or manage the resources that are located to many of the states so what that our consultative forum is saying is just actually naming and rather shaming for now some of those that were mentioned have been an endemic issue, a challenge that has been there over time that people have not been paying attention and it was inevitable for us to have the state and the state of insecurity across the country because security is not just about providing gadgets and those guarding intelligence, if you have a system that is heavily invested with the foundation for insecurity, there's no amount of equipment that you're going to purchase intelligence that you want to gather, you will still be dealing with criminals even in terms of those that you will supply information to even in the security process so it is not a problem that is just, and it is not impossible I don't totally agree that the government is also part of the bandits but I would agree totally that it is not a problem that is about a federal government and that is where we've been getting it wrong and where the statement of Arewa Consultative Forum is based but here we are, we're talking about states now, we're not talking about the federal government yes the federal government has its job but we're talking about states now and you said something, I'm sorry just hold on you said something about the fact that yes this has been a problem it has been a problem, but I'm guessing I can almost bet my bottom dollar that every single time a governor campaigned to get into office he used the previous government's lapses as an excuse to get into office so why shouldn't we leave this at their doorsteps knowing that they promised to give the people a better life but here we are dealing with security, unemployment and of course the fact that people cannot even afford anything right now because the cost of living is high our farmers are unable to go to their farms because it's unsafe so really a potpourri of issues but then the problem still has to lie at the feet of our governor so can we really put it past them if they are occupying office and they made promises before they occupied that office why can't we continue to point fingers at them and not look back because they're the ones who are right in front of us, why? don't you totally correct and that's the point that I was driving towards you assisted me in just making the conclusions we need to start asking them questions we need to start collecting our most goals to the states and then we start asking questions what happened to the local government funds what happened to the state, a federal addition to the states what happened to the security goals that they collect how many investments are attracted to the states how many business are also facilitated by the government at the level of the states then we can be looking at, so we've looked at the federal government we're still looking at the federal government until we go to the local government and the state unfortunately all the states have collapsed you know, governance at the local government level so you can't even find any state and I say that without any clear contradiction any state currently in this country where you can point at a semblance of democracy or good governance at the local government level because the governors would appoint the local government chairman and that is why you can see them sacking them as mums and capises even when the supreme court said they can't do it but they would do it because they need the funds of the local government not for the government purposes but for the purposes of the administration you can see how they all kicked against it when NFIU said stop withdrawing local government funds in cash but they couldn't afford to do that because that is where they need that fund for the purpose and local government is closest to the grass but it's not been allowed to function by the state government and that is where we need to start taking people to tax we have not just governors, we have also assembly members you even have those parliamentarians and the national assembly from all these days who would campaign like you said on the ground of poverty lack of education and the rest of that they only use it as a mantra to attract and attention support and criticize the outgoing government but not for the purpose of governance and support and we need to start taking them to tax on their commitments during campaigns A quick question before I go back to our security man we need to take them to task yes, how do we bring them to accountability when there seems to be a loosely I mean for want of a better word and I'm using the word gag loosely here there seems to be a gag on the average person who seems to be screaming out loud on the average person who's calling for heads to roll in a sense because they feel like they have been let down I mean we're seeing all kinds of bills and acts that are being pushed that are not necessary to deal with the issues that we have at hand right now so again, how do you get these people's attention if every attempt seems to be literally shut down yeah, I think I will start from you and myself with our constituency where we belong so the media is actually playing a very sad, ignoble role when it comes to the issue of the governor and that is why you would see them always jumping around for merit awards always on annual the best governor without any form of defense or any form of justification for those awards and that must stop we must stop even celebrating governor that even coming to office one year after that is number one number two it isn't sufficient to showcase even governors are as ridiculous as celebrating the commissioning of bulls ordinary bulls the same thing with four or five class rooms for schools we must stop this kind of shenanigans and also hold them and that is how we bring them to account just like you said the other thing that is also very critical is that the civil society must start benchmarking the performances of the governor so when a governor gets into office you know what was the state of the schools of water supplies of the health facilities on the roads and then assess them as they progress so that we can see if they are gravitating towards some of their commitments and our expectations and not until after four years when they would have stolen the money and about to escape let me go back to our security men let me start with Mr. Makri from all of the analysis that we've done tonight it makes it seem like your job might be a lot more difficult than we think it is I mean it's easy for us to have a conversation with security persons and say why is this and that not done but if the fundamentals are not addressed then it makes your job a bit more difficult now there are questions we're not even trying to put it past security operators that there are no questions to be asked there are questions of welfare questions of equipping men and the soldiers that are fighting this war this irregular warfare but then going forward if you were to advise governors because when we talk about governors the first thing that comes to mind is security votes but it goes beyond that doesn't it? Of course it goes beyond the security votes it goes to governance itself because you remember there are many many governors that will say oh we want state police because I'm the CSO of my state but I don't have the power you know and when I see that I laugh because I find it to be very very insincere it's very very sincere for the governors to say that because I worked in the state as a director in the state every Monday morning we have a security council meeting and in that security council meeting you have the police you have the DSS you have the army you know you have the navy like in some literal states where they have the navy people or air force all the divisional commanders are there and I see this and then they sit down and plan the security strategy for the states and everybody goes out to do what they have to do so for the governor to come out and say what does he want he want the force that he can use to pursue his political opponents that is wrong because these people are there for him to use and it will be so insincere of him to say that you know he cannot use them so for all other political problems that need security intervention they are at his disposal to use and they will go ahead if they disagree they remember that he must have brought politics into it he must have brought politics into it but if it is of security nature or criminal nature the security agencies are at his disposal to use and not to talk of the billions of lira that he claims as what do you call it security vote and I think it's high time they start auditing those money because I think it's just going into a bottomless pit I mean that's a whole kettle of fish on its own it's a conversation that we can have for an hour or another day but let me finally go to Conor Honda Conor Honda you've heard everything that we've talked about going forward and it also puts the army in a precarious situation where one minute we're seeing them accompanying Sheikh Gumi to the destination and then the next minute the army is saying they do not know where the bandits are the job of the army is caught up for them we know that but how can we win this war against banditry and insecurity in the north with the help of the army and collaborations with governments taking out politics from it there's no hiding the fact from what Gumi said that Gumi was once a former soldier a captain in the army medical and he can be telling lies that the army accompanied him and the policemen to the location of these bandits he can be telling lies he won't say they are unknown soldiers or unknown policemen or known whichever operatives he has said it and he said it but all I think the government can do is to investigate fully to investigate fully and make sure that they authenticate those that went and those because it is someone to a role of jokes that the army knows their locations and nothing yet has been done it's just not that our military our military can accompany a high class government agent or non-government agent to go and find out what is happening in the dissonance today they are they either they don't know their locations and nothing has been done and no arrests has been made which means the government is playing to the gallery they are not those that are really involved in this thing ok well Larry Shradu is a political analyst Dennis Amakri former DSS deputy director and Connell O'Honda thank you very much gentlemen for being part of this conversation alright thank you alright well we'll take a short break and when we return we will announce plans to review the land use act and some actually disagree we'll get to know when we come back