 projects which were done before they introduced Star Office. So we started before 2000, it was the last month of the century, we started with Sun to think about these usage of Star Office in a professional environment, not just to have volunteer users, but to deploy this office productivity suite in professional environments. And it was very, very clear, early clear, that this is a change management project in these professional environments which faces a lot of technical and non-technical issues. So we started and certainly we have done, in combination with Sun, the typical thought and thought just about technology, just about developing solutions, just looking in technical issues, technical items and so on, and did not have in mind that, as I said, this is a huge change management project, there's a human factor in it and that a lot of stuff, what is to do meanwhile we know is that to have the people in mind with it. So this is developed through the whole history of all known free and open source productivity suites, as you see we have one of the main tasks we did in the early 2000s is to try to develop tools with which you can automatically migrate and document fold and every organization have a lot of documents with which you can automatically migrate them in the new world. In the early stages it was not the open document format, it was this SVX or something like this, but a few years later there were the issue with the open document format. So to be honest, we did it and we did it for Sun, so the right and the license for these migration tools were by Sun, but to be honest, we didn't reach that. Why? Because one of the problems was that we tried to do the same as we have today an interpreter for VBA macros. And as you all know, today we have something like a VBA interpreter, but it's quite a little bit the same problem with it, but on a better stage, on a higher stage. So we did this transformation engine on a very meta level so that you could take this VBA macros, it was represented in a meta, speech meta form, and then you could choose in which language this was brought and migrated. With this flexibility, and it was, in mind was the flexibility from Star Office in the early years, you could also have different macro languages with Star Office, and the populist was Java, so we tried to do it not just in open office, open office basic, but also for Java. That's the reason why we did this meta migration way. But we learned in Praxis that nearly every macro we tried to migrate with these tools did have one or two statements, which was not in the model internally. So it was very, very nice to say, hey, we have a tool, but not one macro of the fault was really automated, with an automation migrate in the new world, and they have to be developers and so on who have to work with this result to get it to run. So as I said, meanwhile we have a better interpreter. There have a lot of things happened in this history there. I have tried to count a little bit how much user we have brought from a proper office productivity suite to a free one. It was not just open office, it was open office, Star Office, and so on. And I counted around about one million user. So we have in the last 20 years seen a lot of use cases, and also to be honest, because we are talking about migration, not every consultancy job we did for migrating or checking, have a feasibility study, was successful. The most problem with it was integration issues. In the early years it was very, very hard with SAP integrations. So they used a very high level or deep integration with SAP and Microsoft Office. It's not so usual these days, but for that there are other integrations. So not every feasibility study or every information or pre-migration consultancy was a success in the sense that we brought them to open office or to Libre Office or to Star Office. Meanwhile, 10 years ago, so I can mention this project, no confidelity contract is more valid. So I can say one of the biggest consultancy we have done for deployment was for around about 18,000 people in the German Bundesbank. In this time, the role of the German Bundesbank, the bank for the currency in Germany was higher than today because it was not the euro, it was the day mark in these days. But it was nevertheless a huge project, a feasibility study and this was one example and I will tell you with what this was the problem. They decided against it, so they stayed at Microsoft Office Y not because of lacking technological issues or something. In principle it was also a technological issue because these days, 10, 15 years ago, there was not so much accessibility support with open office and with Libre Office and they have or we examined that the screen reader in this time didn't have this integration like Microsoft, especially with Microsoft Excel. Calc didn't work so smooth for blind people and so on and this was one of the reasons. So not just technology evolved over the time in both areas, in the proper attire area and in the free and open source productivity suite area and what we see today is that we have a lot of more devices where we do office productivity activities. Yes, I have learned that there are some people who are working with, for example with calc sheets are doing this on such a device. It's unbelievable what they do it. So it's a very small screen and I don't know how to do that exactly but yes, we have to deal with, it's more reasonable with this tablets and bigger smart devices. But we have to keep in mind these days when we have migrations that is not just the offline client anymore, it's also mobile devices and certainly in the middle that there is nowadays the need to work synchronously on documents via cloud, via browser and so on. And all this have certainly consequences for these feasibility studies and for deployments in professional environments. And as you all know, TDF has done for these migration, so-called migration protocol, I will show it later, which try to cover all these technological and non-technological problems or things which have to be covered in migration projects. And what I now want to try is to summarize five or six items which I think are nowadays a new one coming out of this new state of the art working with an Office Productivity Suite and certainly some of them still an important one mentioned, one I have mentioned already is the Human Factor that is still an absolutely cornerstone for successful migrations. So let me start with a contradiction. I said to you that nowadays everybody is working with browser, online, cloud, other devices, but desktop client installation is still and will still be there. So it is not a replacement, but it's an additional device with it. So not to move the scope with the migration, but to have additional devices with all the documents which have to be available on all devices even in the desktop and layouting for different devices have to be done or if you are doing templates on the desktop client you have to check how these templates are working with these new devices, how do they look, how can you work with them and so on. By the way, macro issue, if I need a macro, do I need the desktop? Is it working in the browser? We know that Kolobora is meanwhile partially able to run macros also in the cloud. It's very, very interesting. It's very, very asked not to differentiate documents between these devices and so on. So one of the issues is this layouting functionality having in the document fault between these different technological devices. And to be honest, if you have a look from where customers within Microsoft Office environment and with the cloud of MSO 365 are coming, I think and that's what I want to address to you is that our solution in exactly this area having documents working in different devices is far away from the Microsoft Office solution. I have one customer experienced with trying to eliminate out of some special reasons try to eliminate first before they want to change the client installation, the desktop client installation of Microsoft Office. Just using in browser the Microsoft Office apps. It turned out I didn't know that because I didn't work a lot with the Microsoft Office apps in the cloud, but it turned out that this is a nightmare. Nowadays to work with Microsoft Office cloud apps is a nightmare. You are lacking. You have an editor there, but it's not that what is printed out. So you have, for example, you have to change the few before you see what is you get out of it. Can say, okay, it's acceptable. But what's not acceptable, for example, in professional environment is no text frame support. Text frames are not supported in the cloud environment of Microsoft Office Word. Some are displayed but at another place. Don't we have such migrations issues between the two worlds where text frames are placed at another position in slides or in the letter and so on. And so much more. For example, templates, layout templates could be used in Microsoft Office cloud apps but not maintained, not changed. There's no possibility to change template, style templates. It's not working. The answer from Microsoft is okay, if you want to change this or you want to do this, please refer to the client app and do it there and then come back and you have everything. I think this is an point which is really, really with all these online versions with LibreOffice technology, underlying LibreOffice technology and Kolobora or others are doing is an argument, isn't definitely argument for hours to use and saying, hey, come on, if layout or something or functionality is a problem for you, have a look what you are waiting for in the proprietary area. I mean, certainly Microsoft Office will be able to do a lot in this area in a short period. I think in the next one or two years there will be a lot of efforts to bring this on the same level as the client application but they have still a lot to do what is there for LibreOffice technology. So the second one is, and this is an old one, this is not you. This was from the first day on in migration project, a huge issue. It's the right document format as standard. I do not need to tell you all about this and free and open document standard. Yes, 75 of the world outside is on another document format. But to check and to make feasibility studies with the document format and the documents and customer with 10,000 or 15,000 clients have in its organization and to transfer them in another document format it is a huge task. It should be done intelligent, not the whole one, just the living documents but it makes sense to do this migration to another document format because what we have learned, all learned of the round trip issues. There are still some customers who are doing the following. They are introducing a free and open source LibreOffice technology suite. May it be online or may it be a client installation but saying hey come on LibreOffice is able to import and export Microsoft Office document format so let's stay with this document format. Everything is fine and it's working. And one of the hardest tasks in such migration projects is to convince them that this is one of the worst ideas you can have. You need examples where you can show, so have a look. If you take this document, migrate it to the LibreOffice or to the world technology of LibreOffice. You have something to do. You see, I've mentioned these text frames and so on. If you are now exporting this same document in the Microsoft Office document format what is happening the next time, you have to do it again. And if you have some experience in this round trip journeys you can find crazy, crazy things. Dependent on how often and via which way you have done these round trips exported, imported, exported, imported, they are looking totally different. And this is one very, very important item of every migration to have the right document format strategy. Certainly you have to cope that there are some external partners of this entity with which you have to communicate with the Microsoft Office document format. But you can cover this via templates or most of these processes typically are not done with editable documents. It's enough to exchange PDFs or something like this. And so on. To be honest, there's one new development in this area. I will mention this later again. This is this synchronous editing of documents. As far as you are in one entity, technology or document format is no problem. But if it goes out of your... If you are doing synchronous editing with an outside people it becomes definitely an issue, an item. Then you will not just have the document format item. You also have the technological item that it could be that there are two technology worlds come on the same document and you have to care about, for example, editing conflicts, how to handle editing conflicts and so on. Yes, it's possible to do that from two technological sides. But there are new problems which should be solved in processes and technology and so on. This is perhaps a little bit a special item in Europe, much more in Germany, but also in Europe. These buzzwords, digital sovereignty, combined with the document format I've explained, which should be transparent, full transparent with the cloud functionalities giving the content into a cloud where someone else... You have signed that they have the right to use the content, pictures, texts and so on. This is nowadays especially for governmental customers a big, big, big issue. What they are doing, I've understood, I have a problem. If I go to Microsoft Office 365, I don't know exactly what's happening between local and cloud and which data is flowing there, what are they doing with my content, even if they say, yes, we are doing this in German data centers, in German data centers or European data centers which are certified GDPR-like, which is, there is no certification for GDPR-like. There's no entity who qualifies this. Even there it is not clear if something is going over the internet what can be done with this data. So they all, meanwhile they all understood we have a problem, a problem with digital sovereignty, with login, even with login, if I use Microsoft document formats and so on. Okay, what's happening? I come to a customer, governmental customer say, okay, come on guy, I've understood you have the solution for being digital sovereign. I want to be digital sovereign. When can I do it? I need this in three months and all the integrations with Microsoft Office should be working in three months. So do it now and do it all. There's a huge, huge, huge expectation in open source, in LibreOffice, especially in LibreOffice technology. We have to fulfill the window of opportunity if my expectation is right at maximum two years. If we have in not in two years the same integration level like Microsoft Office, for example with SAP or something else, then we will be out. Then they will say, okay, Microsoft is guaranteeing me more or less digital sovereignty with a data center in Europe. You are not able to do this because you have to develop such integration layer and so on. I have no chance. I have to do to buy them because I have to do my work there. Isn't there a contradiction between a reliance of non-U.S. state on Microsoft and digital sovereignty? Yeah, but they are arguing if you are doing not all the same now in the sense of one-stop shopping. It's another dimension in the sense of one-stop shopping. I don't want to talk to you as LibreOffice, as TDF, and to the next mail solution to the next and so on. If you can't do this in one or two years, I want that I can be digital sovereignty, but I'm forced to buy them. They are guaranteeing me that they will be digital sovereign. Yes, you are right. There is a contradiction, but they are accepting it because I can say if they say they are digital sovereign, I can buy them. They are pushing the responsibility even if they know that this is a very, very weak thing away. That's the contradiction. You are right. That's it. So let's keep in mind this is really a cornerstone in migrations. If you are... No migration is a 100% Big Bang migration. It's a way and you have some use cases left where you need some proprietary productivity suites and if you can't give the vision that this will be reduced in one or two years, you are out. That's what I've already mentioned. Another issue which was 20 years ago, no issue, no item is this thing that online collaboration in the sense of synchronous working on the same document is coming up more and more important. Best was that also Open Office and LibreOffice had the functionality if you have the document on your network, you could have contacted from two instances and work together there. And in the early years, I always asked, okay, show me the process where they asked, is LibreOffice able to do this? Yes, it is able to do this. But first of all, show me the process in your company or in your governmental area where you need this. And mostly everywhere, they have really to choose process and asking who's using this functionality, who's using this, we need this and we need some use cases. But there was none. There was a bank, a huge bank, which is not existing anymore, who were doing his investment banking on a sheet, on an Excel sheet, synchronously over 24 hours pushing it in different locations where they have protocoled their transaction. This was the only real-time synchronous editing process I discovered years ago. But this have changed, definitely. This have changed, definitely. There are a lot of co-editing processes. For example, contracts which are in video conferences are worked on, contracts formulating, sentence legal binding words and sentences synchronously. And this is done by online collaboration sometimes with smart devices. So this new device or this upcoming kind of work, simultaneous work, comes with other functionality we not usually have in mind when we come from a desktop client. For example, I mentioned one is this conflict healing. If two persons are working on the same word or on the same cell in Kalk, we have to do something with that. So new functionalities have to be brought in. Or the most combination of online work comes with file sharing, next cloud, own cloud. Give me another example. The only one I have in mind now. You know what I mean. And with this file sharing, you have new functionalities you have to have in mind if you are migrating from Microsoft Office. What is with remarks for files? What is with versions of a document and so on. So if you are migrating from one word to the other, you have to do feasibility things, technological things, also in combination with this file sharing item with a migration. Another thing which is coming up more and more with this online collaboration is very important because it is one big argument pushing back this migration is UI. Resistance of change, the last one I will show, the last item is this resistance of change of users. The most broad argument is, oh, this is a completely other UI and I have to train and to remember on which UI I am and I have to learn that this functionality is on another place and so on. There is something cooking up in this UI area in combination with this problem that we now have this kind of similar user interface with ribbons. But to be honest, if you have some experience with a notebook bar, it is not the same complete functionality via the notebook bar. So the question is, the most of the people nowadays want to migrate are saying, okay, I want to use this notebook bar. And then I have seen, for example, I have seen some documents which have recorded macros from the client installation with the old UI which are no longer working with the notebook bar because parts of this recorded macros are using UI tracking things. And there are a lot of things that are working because it's on object level, it's interacting with document objects. But some things are really, you bring the mouse from here to here and so on. And there are some problems with the new notebook bar. And even more, if you remember that we have not just the desktop installation but perhaps a LibreOffice community installation on the desktop, on the browser and Calabora online, and perhaps on a smartphone and an app, then you have three different user interfaces. Not so much different, but different. And it seems to be very confusing for users to have all these in mind. We have often support issues asking, well, I thought this functionality is in the client there and there, why do I am not finding this functionality in this area of the other device and so on? Or why is it missing another issue? So I think this is a very, very important item because what I've said, always the argument, if someone do not want to change office productivity, the first argument is it's a new UI and I will start from zero. And with this confusion, we gave them arguments. So my pleasure is, even my pleasure, but my preference would be to more harmonize this on the different devices so that this argument is not so big. Well, we have time? Oh, okay. Yeah, this is a very, very interesting item even on this conference because I've learned this morning to talk about AI support in Office Productivity Suite. Nowadays, there seems to be a lot in combination with chat GP guys, so generated artificial intelligence. This is a little bit beyond this because if you have user experience with a new Microsoft Office clients, even in cloud, that there is a so-called co-pilot functionality. What is more or less behind? It's layouting. What they are doing is learning from your usual editing, layouting mostly seen in PowerPoint or a slide doing and proposing some layouting to you. There's a designer, design assistant where you can click with one click, and you have the same design on different slides or your graphic is layouted similar to others on other slides. So there is as co-pilot, not just in interacting with a chatbot, but co-piloting, layouting functionality. The good one is, and that's what Microsoft Office users are saying, they are helping a lot. With one tip, I got a nice layouting, even in text editing. The bad one, but that is very hard to explain in the first row, they are doing the layouting functionality obscure. Nobody knows anymore how to use or to build a style format because it's done automatically from this AI bot. So if you are forced to do it by your own, you have to look, okay, there are style templates and how can I use them, how can I define them and so on. So layout functionality is going with this co-piloting AI, making layout functions more obscure. But the user is enjoying this. Absolutely. Really nobody heard who's not saying that. With a combination, even this co-pilot, and we are again near this chat GPT things, they have a lot of work done to help the user. We are asking how can I do this, how can I do this. And this will be in migration or is nowadays a problem to not have or not in this quality, we have this functionality AI based functionality in our world. With a reason, okay, I have to invest more costs and draining and so on, which I do not have in the Microsoft area because of this AI support. And the next upgrade is also on the team, Windows 11 in September 26. Yeah, there's happening something. Thanks God, there's happening something. This will address exactly this item a little bit. I just want to give some examples what is going on as new road blockers in migration and for which we have to care, as you said, we have to find solutions for that because these are arguments against migrations. And last but not least, this is from Ithalo the most showed graphic, it's the human factor, the resistance of change. Still, since I've written old as humankind, something new, I have something new to learn. Go away, I want to use that, what I have used 20 years ago and so on. So to go through this curve, the Sküpler-Ross curve, change curve, first you have everybody against you, then there is depression and they realize, oh shit, I can't do anything against this migration, so I have to learn this and getting more and more the people, the user on you, the more invests in having these in mind, having the users in mind, the better it works. And the more you find users who are relatively quick in these areas here, the better the migration is working. You can use them for the trainer concepts to go out to know how people with know how in it and typically can be asked from other users and so on. So this is a factor and I always say at this point, nearly, this is an examination or an observation, nearly 50% of all costs of migration are going in this factor. Nothing technological, 50% of migration costs are going in this factor. Training, information, respecting, seeing what they are doing, convincing that there is another way to do that, this and so on. Isn't it close to 100%? Sorry? You're saying that only 50% of migration efforts go into what you just described, shouldn't it be, I would assume it would be closer to 100%. If you come from the point in the beginning, what I've told in the beginning, that these migration projects are seen totally as only technological projects to migrate document format to have solutions for integration issues and so on, then 50% is a lot. You can say that every euro which is going in the migration is in combination with this item, but if you say a case, if you have really programming for integration which has not any issue with the end user, this is perhaps in the other 50%. The message behind is, don't underestimate the end user. This is the message behind, even in costs. Open source is not for free. The technical issues are the easiest to fix. It's much more a behavioral change than any specific technical... So more than 50%. And I fully agree with you. If you don't focus on the end user, it will fail. But does that particularly translate to training people or to external communities in relation with you? Sorry, again. Does those 50% translate to training exclusively or other aspects? No, other aspects. It's a lot of information and training on different levels. Information communication a lot. It starts mostly going to end users, explaining that we also have something like an UI for editing. There are some users really thinking about that they have to do a command line tool. Where does this come from? I really don't know. I have the impression if they have to change a writer for Word, they have to do something on a command line. I don't know where it comes from, but this is an example. So other things like you mentioned, trainings for different levels. In some environments, it's the first time you gave trainings for Office Productivity Suite. This has two sides. The first one is there are some users who are using this because they can learn something. They can share this know-how with others. And the other way around, there are some users in Microsoft Office who have this know-how who are often asked from others. For example, I have to be careful because if you know where I'm living, you can transform to the customer. I have a customer, there was a woman, she was near the manager director. She did a slide presentation like a video. She tapped on the laptop and then it shows in a PowerPoint presentation how the production process of this company was doing. She was totally against migration because she was in this position because of this know-how of PowerPoint. She was fearing losing this know-how with migration. So what have we done? We took an USB with LibreOffice on the portable and go there and convince there. So take your PowerPoint, let it run on impris and we will see it was a risky thing to do that. Guess what? It ran. We have to win an promoter for this migration on a very important level. So these are all things, information, communication, taking fears away which are in these 50%. More interactive. Let me take him first. If we migrate from the outside world from the 50% of this document and they have to work with that and the rest of it is going to be 100% brought into the office. How do you create this to the audience? To be honest, if they get something from the outside world they won't be able to work with that and they cannot say that to the host. First of all, to be honest, to take this with respect and care. You don't have to, you should not ignore that. You have to, as we have done with this woman, to have a look which process are behind there and searching for solutions. Sometimes there's a solution for not having an editable document from one. Sometimes there might be the need that you need still in Microsoft Office Suite for doing special functionality but this must be definitely proven that this is needed for that. So, respecting this fear, addressing it with solutions and accepting if it is really a cornerstone or a blocker. Where do you are in your presentation? Not so far yet. What about only office? Only office will not be a part in the rest of the thing. I have an opinion but we can discuss it later on. I don't, we'll discuss this in a huge thing. Yes. Five minutes discussion and then I have to show five minutes the slides about the certification. We had also in a very large company that has a very large help desk and we had to train the help desk. Definitely. You absolutely need to convince the help desk to be on your side and not spread noise about the issues. And interestingly it's a very special kind of training for supporters. Very special kind of training for supporters. Yes, I've not mentioned all the items. I've just took out what I thought is very, but this is a very, very important thing, yes. Okay, so let me use the last minutes for doing the job promoting our certification. So this is the picture I've mentioned. This is the protocol which TDF, I'm feeling recommend, thank you, which is recommended from the TDF for doing migrations. This looks a little bit like step by step. Certainly this is not in this sequential way, but it covers mostly all tasks you have to do with such a migration. Which certificates, what I've not mentioned, why is the TDF doing these certification in this way? Because that was the reason I have given the talk with new items in the migration, so that we want to have something like a quality seal giving from TDF, from a neutral position for professional customers, showing okay, if you have certified TDF, certified professionals in these three areas, you can be sure that they are quality proven, that this is not a newbie, or that all of these items have somewhere discovered and have solutions for it. And if there's a new one, there's a bridge to the community, to the project, which can work together, for example for new functionalities or giving solutions, transferring solutions, be transparent about this and so on. So there are three kind of certifications, professional developer, summarize now the slides after that. Certified developers are people who are able to cover source code changes and the heavy one, who are able to do third level support for doing bug fixing and so on. And this is a dedicated process and certification. The committee which is meeting in the other room is the committee who invites these known people out of the commits. They are seeing which of these developers are able to be certified and could be doing such services for professional and wide audience. The others are a little bit different, handle professional migrators and professional trainers. We are, as I said, we are qualifying proven know-how, so it is not a certification you can learn from the beginning. Typically you have know-how in such migrating processes in any organization and we are doing a verification of this know-how out of information and documents you are presenting a committee out of three or four people and explaining what you have done, discussing and verifying the ability or if it is there, the contacts to the projects and to people of TDF and so on to do this what I have mentioned. If there are some items which are out of range then you have a backup group where this could be handled. What is else there that I have mentioned? Developer I have mentioned. There are some links where you can doing an application form and afterwards this process starts so we ask you to present these documents verifying such know-how if we are convinced that you are a candidate then we ask you to go in a review session with three or four already certified people out of a committee doing something like a talk one hour about your project, about your know-how and afterwards we decide if you are granted this certification for migrator, professional migrator or trainer. Did I forget something? We have for special cases we have a basic certification which is called LibreOffice Certified so it doesn't provide any specific area. We have only one person that is in that area is a special case. It's an American person living in a Swatini which is one of the black countries in South Africa was called Swaziland before. He is... No, just to give some context he is providing refurbished computers to the schools in Swatini where of course they don't have a large income so they... if that simply brings we use computers from the States and he reinstalls everything and he installs LibreOffice but he's not... he wants you to have a LibreOffice certified to be eligible in front of the Ministry of Education It's more showing the recognition of TDF for these people which are using this in their community this is in slightly different purpose. This is an option if you know people in your countries that need to be promoting LibreOffice in schools or in... anything needs a recognition that is a step that we can do with this person Actually, a lot of me we are supposed to do in Sri Lanka in early November a workshop and the people that will follow this workshop will get the basic certification not professional Thank you if there are still questions afterwards in person