 Oh, we lost Alex what the hell's going on with my internet bro? Boy Alex you having some connectivity issues, aren't you? What's up guys and welcome to the after hours podcast we have special guest Mari here as well as Alex and Joe Mari it's great to have you on Maybe you could tell us just a bit about kind of your journey I know you've talked about it on a lot of other different kind of like podcasts and stuff like that So maybe just like short description of kind of how you found trading how you got into it stuff like that Well, thank you guys for having me on And I got started almost like right after high school because my dad is an entrepreneur himself So he always wanted me to have a job for myself And it was kind of interesting because all throughout high school. I kind of wanted to have a job like my friends I was like, why can't I work at Harkybasket or Hannaford or an ice cream shop I don't know. I kind of really want to start doing something and my dad would always say no And once I started trading he kind of like explained to me that he didn't want to get me into like that mindset Of the nine to five job kind of he wanted me to have like different perspectives On like different routes that I could take it could be The the traditional route, which is the one that I thought I would take which was go to college And you know then eventually get a job or it was just to start trading and work for myself So those were like the two options that he kind of gave me and he said I'll be okay with either but This is like something you can do and this can be something kind of like cool that you can start So he would send me a bunch of finance articles, which I didn't really understand that much at first But I came across an ad for tim Sykes and that's how I got started So he kind of like spoke to a younger audience and it kind of Resignated with me a little bit like the language I was like a little bit more comfortable with the idea of trading than I was with investing or Any other of that sort of stuff because they're kind of like speaking to An older audience. So that's what draw me into trading in the first place and I gave a shot and I started in 2018 and I got the challenge But I didn't really like trading at first. So I kind of just took that year off I just got the challenge, but I was like, well, I'm not really very interested Just seemed a little like boyish for me in a way So I didn't understand it at all either because I didn't even open my platform till 2019 But anyways, I didn't want to like let the challenge go to food go to waste So I still kept learning and I still kept kind of like watching the videos watching the webinars But still I was like a little bit hesitant on it Then I went to Columbia for a year and that was kind of like an eye-opener for me because it showed me that Sometimes it is very difficult to make money and also like work for somebody else Based on like the examples that I saw so Then I realized like how blessed the opportunity was to be able to work for myself and to see how Good it is to just work from home and not have to kind of talk to a lot of people And I can just have my schedule be free So I realized that and then I came back and I started in 2019 full time opened up my brokers opened up two brokers and That's like pretty much when I started When you first started did you see like instant success because like when I first started every single stock I bought crashed and I was like am I doing something wrong? Like what's going on here? So like when you started did you like see success instantly or was it kind of like It took you some time to get there It definitely took me some time It was like my first four or five months, but I mean I kind of started to really understand it After like five months, but for the first five months. I thought I was up maybe like six hundred dollars And then it was a real heartbreaker when I saw like all of my accounts And I was still getting used to the platforms and I was actually down like three to four thousand When I thought I was up It was like mainly all on commissions over trading not knowing what I was doing Getting used to the platforms and kind of using size that I shouldn't have been using in the first place and just OTCs I started kind of trading them a lot more So over trading them and trading five to ten times throughout the day can really Eat you up in commissions. So that's When it was like an eye opener and then I kind of tried to like switch things back around and Yeah, it was very hard first like five to six months So what was it? Okay, joe you can go What was it exactly that you think propelled you? From kind of being in the background just being a trader into the spotlight I mean I kind of it was like around june or july it was like around july when I cross PDT and that's kind of when I understood like what I was actually doing and It did take a little bit but Once I was able to like flip the switch That was when I understood when I started to understand my personality And I think that's like a really important aspect of like trading and actually understanding your personality because you can study a lot And you can watch a lot of videos and you can be very prepared But I think I started to really understand what was going on when I started to know my personality and trading And that's kind of like what switched My point of view and that's like what pretty much started My journey, but like it was once I figured out what worked for me and my personality Yeah, maybe you could kind of talk about like not going into like too much specifics but like the types of setups that kind of worked for Like you and your personality like was it like OTC breakout or like listed longs or shorts I tried everything but for a whole year I tried All of the OTC different types of patterns and then I kind I got very comfortable with the OTC panic dip by so Then that same december january and february that was when you had the OTC mania So that was when I was able to exponentially grow After I took eight months of only focusing on that type of setup How have you adapted to this new market because You know when we had the pandemic in 2020 and 2021 everyone was just printing money And then 2022 comes along with the market crashes and everyone's all of a sudden burning their money And now we're in 2023 we're starting to see a little bit of a rebound So how have you kind of adjusted to the bear market cycle that we're in? I definitely feel like this is like the first kind of like first three to four months where I'm very comfortable with what I'm doing But the past year it did take a really long time to kind of like adapt And I would mix my I would lose some money, but I still was like I got back to that beginner stage It was like I was an expert and then you get back to like that beginner stage because now you have to Pretty much pretty much teach yourself again What you already taught yourself because now that pattern stopped working So I've adapted to short Gapper unlisted socks And that has worked for me really well. I've been training it for like a year or two And I think it's very consistent as well But it's kind of like the inverse panic that buying that just fit in my personality. So that's how like I've adapted So in 2019 and 2020 there was still kind of this Small bit of life to the otc market Like there was a little bit of stuff that would run or it would or it would quietly move And then you know the typical pump and dump schemes that stayed there Is that still something that's part of your strategy in the otc world or have you had to kind of fully transition out of that? Because from what i've noticed and maybe it's not what i'm seeing is Different from what you what you see or what you do, but for the last two years It really seems like since the kind of game stop and wall street bets It took all attention out of those worlds and moved them into the listed world So for me, I feel like I feel like there are a lot of setups even if it's big cab small cab or otcs I'll still take it with the right risk if I see a pattern there that I recognize and I like it Because there's a lot of like big cap that you can see and it's an a plus setup So I'll still take it, but it's just not like my comfort zone Like I know here is like my home and then here's like, yeah, it's like my second home I understand it but I'll still take almost like any trade. We had hc and wf and we also had the bankrupt stocks That's ivvq. So I'll still trade them. It's just a matter of recognizing the pattern knowing that I'm comfortable with it But I know that a gapper like I can understand it and it's like my comfort home every day to make consistent gains And then if there's like an outlier trade in any other type of setup, then I'll still take it otcs was exactly how I started as well I went down that road and they've got a special place in my heart man, but things I look at it and I go otcs are dead. So I mean for mari Are otcs dead? Do you think they are? No I definitely think They are they're half like little spirits of like trying to come back to life, but yeah They're not but I do believe or I hope that they'll come back Because I mean I remember the days of like envv like envv and like z what was a z something like all of those weirdest tickers, bro So good like nxt ff like I remember all these tickers like I just wanted the idg af to ever come around But it never did That's funny My favorite was like they would pump it and then pump it and pump it and one of the traders that I've always looked up to Was michael good Yeah, and I loved the research that he always didn't so I got to really digging on those otcs and I would short Those but I would have to get tricky with interactive brokers because that was like the only places you could get the otc borrows Every morning I would come in on like a like a ticker like nxt ff is the one I remember the most I'd have to jump in there and I'd have to put shares to start scaling in so that I would the first thing I would do is I would log in I'd put like 500 shares to short of nxt ff and just leave it And wait for it to fill because the way interactive brokers worked is as soon as those borrows As soon as somebody sold those shares and like covered them and they were available again It would fill whatever next order was most available after that Did you ever do any strategies like that? So I didn't start shorting after the otc kind of like started to trickle off like around april or may So I'd never really actually got short. I definitely think there were a lot of opportunities So they get short eventually I did once like I got back to the beginner stage and then I had to relearn other strategies Get comfortable with it learn my personality enlisted know what I was doing. So For otcs it was just mainly going long And it was also very tricky because you had to literally get the bottom in order to get it filled because you already knew that there Way bigger traders than I was that were just Taking huge sides. So you just had to be quick and know like the rice all time and Kind of just like go for it Yeah, yeah How would you say that you kind of go about managing risks on your trades? I guess now um, yeah, like how what's your kind of like risk management to like My risk management. Well, I kind of like taught myself to understand entries Very well So I kind of like when a stock when I'm like either short or long and it starts working my favor right away And then I can just cover a little bit and get like a cushion and then I can just either re-add or wait For like a longer time. So I do like when my entry is working in my favor Or I can just risk like 10 to 20 cents if I take a short I can just risk high day and it's not really that much that much of like risk for me I would rather keep it like less Like more risk free So let's say you take a short and you're risking high of day what What is your what is your mindset on Adding to that position. Do you find yourself as more of kind of a one shot? One kill type of trader where you're just going in with a few thousand shares Making 30 to 50 cents Cleaning up for the day or do you find That you are As soon as you are reacting to are you more of a reactive person where you're watching the tape? Are you more about the chart and how do you size into those trades? I think you're really just like depends on if it's like an a plus or b plus or c plus and then I'll either add size if like it's truly worth it But if I'm just trying to stay consistent Throughout like the day and throughout the days then I'm just going to like take Less size just like one shot one kill and just kind of like it's almost like practice like here practice here practice And then when the better trade comes along then I'll think about adding and I'll think about maybe Risking a lot more if it is like a trade that it is actually worth it for me So a new trader coming into the into this game Would you tell them to focus more on the chart or more on the tape to get consistency? I think they're both really important I definitely feel like I couldn't trade without either of them, but I think I don't know. I feel like both are like just as easily just as important I guess it really also depends on the pattern that you're trading and Like if I'm trading a gap or I definitely need to understand the taper if I'm trading it's kind of good I definitely really need to understand where it is that is stalling in order to take it short or Along and then I can just risk the highs of that But I think both are important to practice And just basic technical analysis I feel like should be in everybody's hearts once you want to like scale up because in the beginning you won't understand either of them but Memorizing it and then eventually practicing and more it should just like live in our hearts and just kind of be Like home for us pretty much. Yeah So what was it like to cross the million-dollar profit mark for yourself? I was um I think it was really quick I did definitely I was not expecting that I actually set out like a few goals for myself that When I hit like 25 then I would be like over a million and it happened that same year So I was not expecting that at all and in a sense that kind of made it like less exciting because I was working a lot In order like we were just going over time during that time So I didn't even really have a lot of time to like sit and actually think about what just happened because it was like three four months It was a lot and we still had to like keep working So it was like next day you kind of just have to reset and just start again You didn't really have time because you were just wasting time kind of like celebrating instead You just had to work the next day. That's how it felt for me So do you have were you just doing it on your own or were you doing it with like a group of people? Did you have a group of people that you talked to or were you just kind of solo like nobody talked to me? I'm in my zone I definitely had people to talk to and i'm going to give a shout out to jack Kellogg, of course Because he was also great help throughout my trading journey And I am super grateful because you know if you know jack Kellogg, obviously, you know how hard worker he is And it just kind of like pushes you knowing who your friends are and who the people That you love are like that says a lot about you as well So it only pushes you a lot harder if you know that the people you're around Are also ones that are doing amazing things It kind of like pushes you a lot more if you're closer to People that are doing these things. Yeah boy. Alex. You're having some connectivity issues, aren't you? And honestly this kind of brings me to a good I'm stressed out right now. This camp is not working but in trading trading could be very What do you do to combat stress and trading? What do you do to kind of? Because as magical as trading is you know making millions and millions of dollars You know really is stressful and I think every trader probably has like something that helps release So what is that for you? I definitely feel like I have to detach from the market once I'm like away from the market So I feel like that's really helped me because I'm very close to my family And I also kind of like love being outside so I think one of the things that kind of helps me combat stress is knowing that when the market closes It's almost like a new day for me and I get to Do something kind of like go on a walk or just hang out with my family or Eat some food but always Not like always thinking Oh, not like always thinking about how stressful the day was but kind of being able to disconnect for a little bit And know that tomorrow's a new day and the next opportunity is right around the corner And if you made a mistake you go in you analyze and you kind of just like relax because what's done is done so You kind of just gotta Focus on your next trade. That's how I see things powerful mindset because with the way it sounds it's like As soon as the market closes you can do your review. You do whatever you gotta do and then you're like, you know what? I'm taking the market hat off and I'm putting on the enjoy my life. Relax Do you think having a partner like that that understands the stresses of trading And is supportive in that? Helped you get to that next level a lot of traders. There's two sides of the coin, right? We've probably all heard the success and downfall of these traders that number one they either have a partner or spouse that Does not like what they're doing this does not believe that they have are going to find any success in this They're risking their family's money. They're risking their their livelihood All kinds of things like that and then there's the other side of the coin Which is most of the traders that you hear that had success Had a supportive partner or spouse in that situation So do you think that that helped you reach that next level? Definitely did it helps a lot emotionally because sometimes we lose perspective on What is like normal? So you might go up to like so I could go up to like someone and say oh I lost but they would be like Oh, but you made so much and I'm like no, that's not the point. My execution was terrible I traded on discipline. I was super stressed today was such a long day And you kind of just like why want to like talk about it, but they will see the bigger picture But we're looking at the daily So I think that's really important to be able to talk to somewhere about like what Goes on in the daily and knowing that they have the right perspective. They'll understand you if they've been there also So I think it's really good. You want them to get hyped with you. You're like those people running that Freakin just get hyped with me Yeah, somebody else who doesn't understand that's like Yeah, but Okay, yeah, I have like a lot of money. You're like, no, that's not the point Yeah, when you uh, when you became profitable, I guess like did you find that like any Relationships change between like family or friends Like was it awkward or weird to talk about like how much like how much you were making because for me It was it was honestly like really difficult because every time I would go out Everyone would be like, oh drinks are on air your drinks are on air You know or people would ask me about trading and like I was from a small town and you know, sometimes I did You know, I was like, fuck it. Like we're all getting drunk tonight. We're all having a good time We're all partying But it's like sometimes when you're done trading and you just want to have a drink You know or you just want to do whatever hang out with your friends Like you don't really want to talk about it that much So like did it impact like your your friends or like your family or any stuff like that Keep in mind they may watch this Definitely Well, I Don't think so that much because they also saw like the struggles and they saw like the game So I also don't really talk about it that much I try To detach from trading as much as I can so whenever I'm with my friends They barely know and if they do they can just look me up and they'll know but it's not something that I was That I was really kind of talking about and also kind of like Trading terminology. They won't really understand what I'm really talking about. So I kind of try to separate The lives and then if I'm talking with like traders like I think it was like trading friends I think it's good because then they'll ask me a few questions or they'll want to like know If they're like going through a hard time and they can just ask me. So I think it just like makes us closer yeah So how do you feel about getting into the spotlight? I think it was good because when I first started I didn't really have A woman speaker to look up to so I did base Everything based on my age and the young people that were in the industry. So I'm like, well, we had the same age We didn't go to college So that's how I kind of found the similarities and then I found out like yeah I can actually do it because they're literally the same age but It definitely felt really inspiring because I was able to like be the person that I missed when I went to that first conference and now I've seen a lot of more women traders, but I remember going up and just It was the first time that I was getting my name tag and it was just like A bunch of guys and I just like went back to my hotel room like okay I don't know what to say because it's just like a it was just like a lot So definitely having a little more like women In the industry would definitely help to like open up and kind of like understand everything like deeper because we We have differences from guys as well Knowing different kind of like trading styles between women and men. I guess it's it can be a little more conservative at times So I think it was good that I was able to like speak and also maybe inspire a lot of more women traders that are On the edge of like knowing if they can do it or not Who do you think is a is a better trader like what what gender do you think is a better trader? Is a better way to ask it? um women There's a there's a broad spectrum of genders these days Harry and ask that question. Oh, yes We can include the other one i'm gender neutral Right What do you think is better men or women who manages money better? I feel like it doesn't Okay, I'm gonna be honest completely. I think I'll make it comfortable I think women are better money managers I think that both can do the same based on practice In charting and level two you can do all those three then you're you're a good trader no matter the gender emotionally, I feel like is where like the difference maker can come in because It's just like generalizing guys are a little more like risk takers whereas women can be more conservative We can think about it twice and then eventually then we'll take the trade I guess could be like one of the differences like emotionally it might affect us a lot more than a guy would But I feel like both can be really good traders no matter Who they are if they know price action, they know process. They know risk They know level two then that can just make a good trader whether it's a guy or a girl I think women are a hundred percent better at trading than men because yeah I think women are better at running companies women are better at pretty much everything. Well, just not but like No, that's the truth Trading is very emotional and yes women are very emotional Have this ego superiority. I have to be right complex if I'm not right There's It can't be the stock market is wrong. I'm right And what that leads to that leads to so trades just based on hubris of trying to feel right so Really really good job of taking that ego out of the equation and just trading them Yeah, I think that does make sense a lot though because ego does play a big role into How you're trading So I think I think that might be right So what are some of the most memorable trades that you had that boosted that ego? In a good way Yeah, in a good way and then that was going to be my segue to the unsuccessful side of that What were the ones that also humbled you back down to reality? So let's start with the good ones first. What ones that you were like, look at me mother. I got it I Would say that was like around February February When the otc mania was going on and it wasn't just on one specific trade. It was a whole day where we had It was like maybe six or seven panics perfect Panics that were going on. It was like ocsc tsmp encc It was all of them were panicking and I think that was like my top One best day that I ever had but it just came from like all of the practice that I took before but that was definitely my best day And that was February of what year this year? Um, no, that was 2021. Okay. So February 21 was The day or whatever day that all those stickers ran that was the day that you were like I got this Yeah, what day crushed you? um I mean you I definitely feel like I remember the losses so much more than I do The gains because you can have a lot of like Gains, but I feel like the losses are so much more meaningful. Um I would say it would be Definitely my tesla trade It was an options trade And that was definitely by far the most heartbreaking loss that I ever had It was also my biggest loss that I ever had. So I came from This was in 2022 and I came from trading tesla all december and january for like two whole months because Tesla maybe not now, but during those during those months It would just take a trend and it would trend all day and it was just perfect. It would either fade It would either just follow the trend very well So I was trading it every single day for two three four k every single day for a whole two months And I was very confident I thought you know like I can pretty much read tesla like the back of my hand and that was when during february that was during the time that option trading kind of like Started to come up a little bit between like my friends and like other people like around me And I was like, you know what if I can trade tesla every day consistently like normally I can long and short Then that means I must be able to options trade and keep in mind I I didn't even watch an options video like I was very new to it. I remember I asked a little bit but I was still very new to it and I wasn't used to the volatile volatility and I wasn't used to The huge percentage differences that I had between just trading and normally So I decided to options trade and this wasn't even on an eight plus day This was on like stay consistent make some gains and then just leave you just woke up and I choose violence today Pretty much. Yeah Yep, and then I lost all of my two months games. Oh that day Oh my gosh It was horrible Man, it was heartbreaking. I was Like, okay We're like Clearly, I know nothing. Yeah Yeah Elan will do that. Yeah, he really has a way Yeah, it was It was heartbreaking and I think I took like a few days off as well because It was like a mix of almost everything It was a mix of feeling too confident that I knew tesla at the back of my hand And it was also not knowing Enough and just being a total beginner in options trading and not getting used to the volatility and the percentages And that just all came to A mess also revenge trading was also part of like the process It was almost like a whole day kind of thing where I was I was like, I know tesla. I'm right This is it and it wasn't so then I flipped bias which was also the worst thing I could do And that was when I actually made the move that I wanted it to so that was My most undisciplined most sad loss sad day Are you a full-time trader now or do you do other things outside of trading for Just to get away from the market to earn additional income things like that I'm a full-time day trader, but I'm almost done every single day. I like 11 or 12 I don't overstay because I know I probably won't find anything in the acronym Awesome Yeah, you kind of uh, oh sorry. I'll go ahead. No go ahead You kind of uh mentioned before how you Had a consistent strategy and then Um, you kind of had to relearn a new strategy. Maybe you could kind of talk about how like what that mindset was like, but also Um, the mindset that you used to really kind of push you forward and kind of like get back on your feet again You know, because I think a lot of people are going through that right now Where they had been doing really well through cobit and then uh this year or and maybe a little bit to the end of last year um And some you know, some people that even we know marie are struggling like at the start of this year I feel like everyone's kind of gone through it after cobit So maybe you could kind of talk about just like relearning a new strategy What the mindset was like how you kind of went about it because it is really difficult when you have made Some money to have kind of have to go back to the drawing board and say okay. I need to reevaluate what's working I need to reevaluate, uh, you know my own headspace I need to kind of you know, look under the hood and see what's working and what's not so maybe you could kind of talk about that a little bit One of the best things that I did That I think I was too late on because last year like it was a little difficult to kind of like adapt But this year what I did was size down all of my not all of my accounts. I sized down my main account to 30k And that was like the best decision I've ever made that like eliminated all of like the emotional stress and it also eliminated huge Drawdowns for like no reason at all because having like a bigger account can get you out of like very uncomfortable situations easily But if you have a small account you have to focus very good on execution Or else it's like your account that's going to hurt So that's kind of like one thing that I did that helped me in order to like adapt to this year And also I feel like I've gotten enough practice throughout like the year to understand How to like get short the right risk and to know good stock collection That's awesome. That's awesome To wrap it up My final question would be do you have any advice for a new trader or a struggling trader? Or someone that wants to get into trading in general um Well, I have I feel like there's a lot of advice to be given to new traders, but It really helps me to study the first year and just not even open a broker A brokerage account at all or maybe have one that like you're looking at because the more practice and the more comfortable you are You'll still have a lot of mistakes, but at least you'll be comfortable with price action Which is like one of the most important things So one of the good things that I did was at least study Before I got into it and just be really cautious and meticulous on what it is that you're trading and I would say other advice would be Before you're thinking on like exponentially growing and kind of scaling up I would think it's really important that you know for sure what your setup is and what your personality is in trading because everybody's different you you can't like imitate someone Or copy anybody's trades. You have to understand who you are And that's why I was able to exponentially grow only when I knew myself So I think that's like another advice I would give And I guess my third advice would be to I know that you'll be studying or working a lot in the beginning But don't forget to like enjoy the little moments that you have Because you don't want like trading to change you in a negative way You just kind of want to imitate what you have outside of the markets also in the market so not like forgetting to enjoy those little moments because you never know when you'll have them back So study work, but also be able to have a balanced life and a healthy life So what are your next goals aspirations or plans for the future? Whether that's in trading or outside of trading. What's next for Mari? Well, I'll keep trading until Whenever And I mean I feel like I'm still at an early age where I have to figure out a lot of things I have to try a lot of new things and kind of have to understand myself So pretty much just like going with the flow, but understanding that I need to Trying things now that I'm younger And also teach her puppy how to You gotta probably do yeah, but she doesn't like socks. It's like That's like my goal number one right now Say that again. I'm sorry you cut out I gotta I gotta teach her how to use socks Use socks Yeah You know during the summer here if the pavement gets really hot their little paws like start to hurt So I need a teacher and like this summer's coming up and I don't know. She just gotta learn quick I had a Rottweiler and we tried to put her in uh like rubber Like these protective pads or whatever and we put them on her and she was like Yep, I don't like this He like didn't she forgot how to walk and Exactly why Yeah, what kind of dog you have back leg like always kick back is the toy golden doodle. She's like Yeah, she's cute That's awesome. That's awesome. Well that that nix is traveling I guess Traveling Yeah, I mean there's a lot of places to see in the world. So where do you want to go outside of columbia? What's your top one? Vacations top one Canada No, no No, I mean I'm pretty close to go to canada canadians don't even want to be there. You don't even want to be there harry We know this Where do you want to go well I'd like to do the antarctica cruise The what that's like the antarctica cruise. Oh Yeah, that's like maybe top one that I do want to do. I want to do iceland switcherland labor The rora lights are like mine Like I have to see it before it like like I have to see the rora. I have to see the northern lines I have to see all of that before I die and if I die before that I'm just gonna haunt everyone that Seize it. That's where my soul is going to exist is up there Iceland so you like the colder weather then Iceland a little bit. I like big mountains I like big mountains hiking long rivers Just speaking up my alley right there. Yeah, we just left. Yeah, we just left Texas and moved to colorado. So staring right at the Rockies I'm like, yeah, buddy The wife and I are talking about we're like hiking everything that we can possibly do outside Good skiing is good too I suck at that terrible That's what I do to into myself. If ever I'm like I need to feel some pain in my life I just go skiing or I short something Yeah Well, that's awesome. That's awesome. Mari so Travelings in the future big puppy socks are in the future That's awesome guys any last questions Nope that uh, that does it for me Thank you Thank you guys. Thank you so much