 Today we're here to discuss will technology put an end to disability and if you're going to tweet along with us Please use the hashtag tech and disability and spelled out because we learned this week that ampersands do not work with hashtags Our event today was inspired by the award-winning documentary on disability and technology fixed the science fiction of human enhancement Director Reagan Brashear was unfortunately unable to join us today, but I believe that she'll be watching the live stream with us and Incidentally speaking of the live stream When you have a question to ask please wait for the microphone to come so that the sound can make it onto the live stream Our first panel today is going to be engineering ability and will be moderated by a slate senior technology writer will ramus But first let's enjoy the trailer for fixed Jetpack to fly around Who wants to have Special robot legs that make you go faster No, you don't want that Who wants us you want that who would want another eye What do you think Humans need what do you think humans need to improve them Email marine veteran has become the world's first true bionic woman. We're already part artificial aren't we if there were a drug That would make you smarter. Would you take it the quest for a perfect baby morally wrong sprinter is running with Prosthetic legs faster than most people in the world. It will redefine the field We're used to a certain amount of artificiality, but this is taking it. It's happening now What does it mean when you can augment the mind if you can improve memory? What does it mean if you could augment the body in the future? Emerging genetic technologies coupled with assisted reproductive technologies could give us the capacity to design Enhanced children which causes concerns about creating genetic casts and superhumans There have been so many advances even in the past few years that people are aware how More aware at least how quickly the technologies are moving us humans, especially as baby boomers I'm really gonna want augmentation pretty soon as we start to decay. We're gonna be demanding more and more augmentation I'd like to have a better memory maybe with memory chips or something I probably want to be taller so I could play for the NBA. I just turned 50 so memory is like sort of an issue I'm happy who I am I actually don't need anything I Mean if I could fly maybe it would be okay Am I disabled? Disappearance which definition will you use? Of course, I'm a disabled person Do I see myself as an impaired person? No, I'm just who I am There's all kind of dynamics which goes around this obsession with ability and competitiveness and that we only way to get respect is if You know show your superior to someone else ableism is our obsession with certain abilities and Accompanying negative treatment of people who don't have these kind of abilities human enhancement is No different than human Everything from brain implants to spinal cord injury rehab to cell phones to gaming there. There is no difference between them What if this kind of collaboration with a machine was flexible enough to allow the user to do whatever they want with it? you want to make a device that has and a Sophisticated enough collaboration that that human will make it an arm in their own way in their own image My artificial limbs are now part of my body. They're part of my identity now What I'd like to see is the death of normalcy What is normal to you? I thought I was normal before my injury. I certainly still feel normal today I really don't understand the desire for enhancement technologies. We don't have basic healthcare Not only in this country, but globally Preventable diseases are like number one killers globally talk about misplaced priorities It is like this huge irony that the research money that goes into emerging technologies as opposed to wheelchairs that are waterproof That demonstrates the financial priorities for the healthcare system Wheelchairs are amazing and that's really precious and at the same time. It's a machine You know, I'm subject to its Frailties, you know like any machine so it makes me feel pretty vulnerable. Where are the hand controls? All right, people should think of disability as another human experience That embodies qualities of human adaptability That are common to all people whether they have a specific disability or not and The experiences of people with disabilities have lessons for the population at large Technologies that help bring people up to normal are used to help people go beyond all often when I talk about implants to people They say well, that's too icky. No one would do that willingly No one would have a cochlear implant if they weren't deaf if they didn't need it No one would have a visual implant if they didn't need it and I say to them botox people will do anything to their bodies for for for Enhancements social enhancements if you force me to seem as if as deficient and you Want me to enhance myself To your level and I of course will say no I go further and then you are deficient because I outdo you I mean why would I want to have legs which only get me to your level? Every line we draw we will be will be transgressed in the next 10 20 30 50 years and and we are gonna see more and more augmentations Generations of our body as the technologies develop these genetic technologies assume that human variation along a spectrum of ability Should be eliminated Have these technological developments? They're not inevitable, but they do have a lot of momentum behind them And so we at this point in human history We're at this moment where we have to where it's our responsibility to really look at them carefully and really make decisions Larry Jacinski the CEO of reWalk Robotics and Jennifer French French the executive director of Neurotech Network About technology related to disability that sound like they're straight out of science fiction you hear about a Paralyzed man taking the first cup at the world Taking the world first kick at the world cup with a bionic leg You hear about there was a story just the other day about a woman Flying an F-15 flight simulator using only her mind It sounds borderline miraculous. It's real. There are limitations Technology is progressing very quickly and we want to talk a little bit about a little bit today about where the technology is today What miraculous things we can already do what seemingly miraculous things will be able to do in the future and what the implications are of a World in which technology can allow us to overcome a lot of the disabilities that we have today and first I want to let our panelists talk a little bit about themselves tell you about their background and I think you'll enjoy Hearing what they do and their stories Larry tell us what reWalk Robotics does sure reWalk Robotics Our goal is simply to provide a device that allows people that are either paralyzed or of other impairments The ability to walk once again, and I would characterize us as at this stage after many years of science or more at the applications level We are providing this now and working to get it provided to large numbers of people paid for trained and everything else on a Personal end I have spent 30 years of my life doing medical devices And this is a culmination that has led me from doing implants to something that fits on the outside of the body That the individual can interact with and decide when they want to stand up Decide when they want to take a step stop turn where they want to go talk Or if they want to stand up and put their arms around somebody give them a hug So it's it's a wonderful technology to be associated with that's incredible So when people ask you what you do for a living you say I help paralyze people walk again Yeah, I do and I get some great responses I mean if you said that you said that a few centuries ago you might have gotten Some more hostile responses. I probably would have been a bird at a stake or something. I think exactly Jennifer tell us about what you do at Neurotech Network and also a little bit about your background Advocacy of Neurotechnology devices So the really that the industry definition of Neurotechnology is medical electronics that interact with the human nervous system So common devices probably some of the more common devices are things like cochlear implants For the hearing impaired deep brain stimulation for Parkinson's disease and spinal cord stimulation for chronic pain But there's a whole plethora of technologies that are out there that are they're able to give people with Neurological conditions new functions and what our nonprofit does is try to raise the awareness of not only the consumer The caregiver and those frontline clinicians of what type of technologies are out there So for fear of sounding like the hair club for men I was spinal cord injured in 1998 and became a quadriplegic from a spinal cord injury due to a snowboarding accident And about a year and a half after that I received a neural implant or a neural prosthetic So I now have electrodes implanted inside my body right in the muscle tissue some of them to the nerves That are fully implanted inside the body and I use this external device This is not a bomb that I'm wearing around my waist. This is actually the external controller that Controls the device so people say okay. Well, you're in a wheelchair. What does it really do for you? Well, the design the the technology was not designed to replace the wheelchair It was designed to work with the wheelchair. So if it's very simple to use if you can see right now, I'm uh, I Have the technology and just put it on Of course Everything never happens the way technology that we want it to doesn't it so he was to say I've crossed my wires Which we all do sometimes So here as you see I just turned it on it did Contracted my back muscles normally if I would be sitting I would be sitting with my paralyzed muscles this way If I turn it on just simply it sends high-level radio frequencies to the implanted device with it turning on I'm able to stand out of my wheelchair using my own muscles And and my own volition So this is allows me to stand up by the wheelchair to move short distances to be able to make transfers that I normally Wouldn't be able to do but I'm also able to turn it off at a moment's notice and Be able to come back into my wheelchair and be paralyzed with my muscles were before so really when I was implanted with this device It was very exciting But there was also I met a lot of other people that use these types of neuro technology devices And they're not aware and they had to search to try to find them and that's why we started neural tech network That's wonderful And Larry can you tell me a little bit about what's different about the technology that you build at rewok? Well the idea of building something allows them to walk is not a new one It's a dream I could find a publication in 1948 about large motor assemblies that would allow someone to walk What's different is three or four things have changed over the last decade and they're going to continue to move Battery technology is much better to give an ability to power something sufficiently Software has developed and the computer capacity to make software mimic exact human walking has come along and then sensor technologies So if you took a rewok device and you were sitting in a chair you would literally set a risk controller on okay I want to stand it won't do anything until you do this motion if you go out of a chair like this You're gonna fall back in it's just this normal forward motion and when you're walking. It's the same thing each step forward You do enough movement of your shoulder the sensor will tell the software to take the next step So the technology has become very friendly It can't work by itself the walk walk person can't walk by themselves when you combine the two you have an interface That allows someone to Independently decide where when and how they're gonna walk and so you don't actually need an implant for your technology to work No ours is strictly worn on the outside of the body I think right now it comes out about five centimeters on each side with the motors and gears And then there's a waste pack and Which holds the thing together and a battery pack that has two batteries and a computer on it I think if you want to look down the road somewhere this gets to a much more miniaturized system It's gonna be like cell phones the original cell phones were this big and then they got smaller now They get bigger again, but we don't plan on the getting bigger again part But I think you'll see this eventually is something that could be worn under the clothes And almost put on like a pair of pants But he touched on something that's really important is the battery power I mean if you go to any airport, we're all tethered to the walls right now, right? So we all need that battery power, but battery power is really a nemesis of this technology particularly for even implanted devices when you think of Implanted defibrillators people have to get them replaced And how do we improve that that battery technology so that we don't have to have implanted Batteries replaced and we're able to recharge them inside the body and they're able to last for a longer period of time So it's not a matter of having to carry spare batteries with us that the user becomes Very used to having that type of power with them and they can really rely on that technology instead of being concerned about that battery power I think we're all learning from the battery side The hardest challenge I had with this early on is Shipping batteries is effective because people worry about the size and there's there's a lot of restrictions that have arisen off some of the airline industry in particular So we've had to design to for the practical reality of if you're going on a flight We've got to have something you could take on the plane with you And we presently are defining us adequate battery power as you can do four hours of constant walking Because people stop and start and that seems to meet our product definition or goal was all day use But as you enhance that power a we can go faster Be able to go up those stairs more easily and use it more for a longer periods of time But we also have to be able to get it to where the person is And deal with the airlines and everybody else because there's a fear of batteries and in interacting with other parts of the market Yeah, and let's let's also talk about some of the other limitations of the technology because it's so easy It's so easy to just read the headlines and think oh everything is solved You know and it's all magic In fact, there are you know there there are still real obstacles in a lot of the technologies that are Helping people overcome their disabilities Batteries are one of them. You've probably heard of heard about Moore's law for computer processors The idea that that computer processors Progress in terms of size and speed exponentially rather than rather than linearly that has not been the case so far with battery technology We it's it's advancing. It's coming along But it's not you know, it's not gonna happen overnight What are some of the other limitations Jennifer of the technology that you use? Yeah, well not only the technology that I use I think one of the biggest limitations of this type of technology that we're talking about is us is that you know Our systems our frameworks our structures are not set up to be able to very easily translate this technology From the laboratory to the consumer to who they're intended So for instance the translation from the lab to the consumer is known as the valley of death when it comes into To the world of technology because not many of them are be a are as successful as Larry has been To be able to take that technology at a laboratory and bring it to the consumer from a business perspective So when we look at the I'll give you some prime examples when we look at standard of care For instance, let's say rehabilitation for stroke those standards of care are very difficult to try to change in Terms of how we treat people that are stroke survivors We need to change those standards of care so that they integrate the technology with them when we look at our reimbursement systems How do we look at reimbursement systems because that's the world that we live in and how we pay for medical care How do we make those reimbursement systems be able to to be fluid enough to be able to look at this technology and see the Enhancements, but I think it's a two-sided story. How do we bring down the cost of the technology? But also how do we open up those standards of care so people can get access to them? Yeah, that's I'm that's a really important point and I want to get into that a little more later on Larry can you tell me your product the rewok products are not for everyone, right, but the the rewok We fall into some of the categories when you're designing a product and you're trying to get an endpoint of commercialization You have to work within certain boundaries and you start really with a marketing spec where you define Here's what we want a product to do all-day use that it can be used independently And that translates further downstream into what the technical capacities are and Presently for we walk it is limited to what we proved with the FDA first and then also what we've given data to the reimbursers So that they'll pay for it So we are limited in height from about five foot two to about six foot two were limited to no more than a hundred kilos They're about 220 pounds And that gets a large percentage of the audience But they're they're also further things and if for individuals in use that we can continue to develop the technology for But right now it hits a limited population that was driven more by the technical elements of application Again, what I can only sell it for what I proved the FDA was safe and those are my boundaries right now And how much does it cost price right now is $70,000 in the United States roughly 52,000 euros I think I'd hit cost on a different variety of different planes We did pricing when we looked at other products that were technologies that were out there from a practical point of view We looked a little bit at cost of goods But we also looked quite a bit at okay What offer what do we offer to the reimbursement community the insurance community? And this is the data that we have to continue to develop and think of in terms of pricing from a practical point of view If if I can show a reduction in medications I'll give an example one of our users that is walking all the time now took two oxycontins a day and took Percocet when he couldn't have any more oxycontin it also made him live in his bed and somewhat depressed all the time He's been walking for about a year. He hasn't taken oxycontin in now over a year And his wife will tell us that okay. He's you've given me my husband back He's back in my life, but from a practical point of view I could take every drug. He's no longer taking and calculate about 10 or $12,000 a year in savings And then I can look at what has happened to people with spinal cord injury with some frequency You're any track infection is very common Pressure sores are not unusual to treat a pressure soren in American Hospital Is an event that cost on average $79,000 So when we took the other side of that look the complications avoided We feel that numbers about 15 to 18 thousand based on the data from the clinical study so far That's data. We have to keep building but we're showing a cost savings of about 30,000 a year and other health benefits So the device pays for itself in about two and a half years and that is the argument we're trying to make to the reimbursement community and We have good data. We do more data because right now your insurance won't cover it right the insurance right now in the United States is case by case We've had a number starting to be covered We've had the veterans administration cover it for veterans that are service related injury out of the James J. Peters and the Bronx They did that on the based on their own data. So if you're a veteran who's paralyzed You can go to that particular hospital and and get a system We have seen the workman's compensation side somewhat active in looking at this for people that were injured in a work related And but now they review it on a case-by-case basis and make decisions We're still in the single numbers of the numbers that have been approved But we're really our FDA clearance was last June. We're about six months into it One of the things you get back to I say I'd rather talk more about the engineering and the design But I've hired a reimbursement team and people that have expertise in this and when someone who's paralyzed needs help We help with the letter of medical necessity. We help Provide the data so the insurers can properly consider it and that's a reality that we have to do because our Dr. Gofer the guy who invented this is a remarkable story in himself. He's a quadriplegic and He had a vision that people could walk, but that was everybody that needed to walk It wasn't the wealthy and and that is a little bit of why we have to do the reimbursement in the FDA components There's kind of a long answer to limitations. No, it's a good answer And and the expense I mean the expenses is always part of the issue when you're talking about cutting-edge technology It's it doesn't pay for it. So I mean it maybe partly pays for itself. It doesn't pay for itself up front certainly Jennifer you Through the Neurotech network you work with people all the time who are struggling with these issues I assume of you know, how do you afford this amazing technology that you read about in the paper? And some of it is you know, there's a specific grant at a specific hospital where they're doing research And you have an opportunity to go in and do something on a trial basis When we look down the road Assuming that some of these technologies remain very expensive and also very powerful in what they're able to do Is that a human right for people to be able to have a technology that will allow them to overcome? Paralysis or or other disabilities? Well, there's a lot of sides to that of a human right But I think Larry really touched on something really important Is that for so much of the way that we look at healthcare or treating different types of neurological conditions We become very myopic. We look at oh, how is this person being treated in the next month 30 days? 60 days 90 days the reality of it is is that a lot of these technologies our bodies adapt to them And they take a while to see the true long-term results So when we look at these longer term studies and see what happens as we have neuroplasticity in the body as the body Adapts to this type of technology. We are actually improving people and we're starting to see those in those long-term studies and that's what we need to do in terms of Looking at whether this technology and people can benefit from it is instead of looking at these small windows is looking at how it Interacts with us over a period of time. Does it become a human right? Well, when we look at it I mean I'm someone with a disability and I'm seeing the headlines just as much as you do and I would be able to have Access to them but when I look at that that dollar sign with it It becomes inaccessible to a lot of people we worked with one man a few years ago his wife had MS and She was constantly tripping and not able to walk and she would have to be in a wheelchair Well, they were able to see that she was able to benefit from something called a drop-foot stimulator and Be able to be mobile with that drop-foot stimulator He spent months fighting to get reimbursement because they were comparing a drop-foot stimulator To what they called a walking stick or a common cane now when you look at the video of her being able to Ambulate with a cane compared to a drop-foot stimulator that is a very fluid movement You can very easily see that she would be able to walk around downtown DC very easily But with the cane she could probably only go a few blocks So when we look at how people interact with the technology is it a right to be able to get it? Well, I think we need to think of it that way I Jen your point one thing I've learned is the importance of educating different groups I learned it with the FDA as we went on put a workshop on an exoskeletons because they were asking us questions That made no sense, but they were willing to learn and what I'm finding at least so far I got a response from the guy Should quote him, but he headed Blue Cross for shield up in Pennsylvania And he said look if I'm providing the technology for someone who's a mother or two and 30 years old I've got to be thinking differently than what I'm providing for someone who's 75 years old So that's a judgment on its own But that he was much more open to thinking about someone who has another 40 or 50 years of life ahead of them What could I do that will really change it because the fundamentals of being able to exercise and do things again? Has a long-term health impact right and I don't mean to be completely negative But yeah, we even had a FDA workshop where the FDA brought in a lot of people in this neuro technology space Where they're starting to look at how can we change the way that we look at medical devices and be able to get them approved? We're starting to open those doors, but we're not there yet. We're not there yet So I mean when we think about for instance some devices are approved by only those that are treatment resistant So let's say a vagus nerve stimulator might be approved for depression But it's only for those people that are treatment resistant That means they've gone through all the other options that are currently available and then they become a candidate So we have think about how we do that standard of care and how we think about how we care for people That's one of the things we have to think of when we're getting them approved and going through the regulatory process Yeah, the saying that that the future is already here. It's just unevenly distributed is is so often said in When when in future tense forums and stories that Tori Bosch who edits future tense for slate has actually Banned it from from her section because you could say that about everything But it really is I mean it really is true when it comes to some of the cutting-edge technology that enables people To overcome disabilities But let's talk a little bit more about what is possible. I mean we we've seen What you can do We've heard a little bit about what rewalk can do But Jennifer you also work with a lot of people who are using all sorts of different neuro technology Not just to walk or to stand but to do other things Can you talk maybe give give two really cool examples of what else? Neuro technology can do. Yeah, well, I have ten of them here in our book actually No, it's like network recently published bionic pioneers It's a collection of ten short stories of people with neurological conditions That use different types of technologies and there's so many exciting stories out there right now It's ms awareness month. So we featured a mother of seven who could no longer Be ambulatory to care for her kids due to ms And she got a drop foot stimulator and she just recently was up and dancing at her daughter's wedding There's there's stories of an army veteran who has ALS who decided to get a diaphragm pacing system to allow him to breathe on his own through his last days instead of being on a ventilator There's there's stories of Kim O'Shea who who lost her vision after the birth of her second child due to retina pigmentosa And she's now able to see using a retinal prosthesis. There's there's these fantastic stories out there and These great technologies where we're making some great advances I think the key thing though we have to think of as we're going into this frontier is we have to think about the user experience and so how people interact with that technology how we Integrate it into our lives is really something we haven't truly explored all that much But we have to think about it as we design the technology Maybe you can you can address that a little bit. Well, I'll give a few examples I think one starts with a gentleman who's a special operations Marine in Afghanistan Sergeant Derek Herrera. He got the first unit in the United States post FDA approval When he first reached us we told him he wasn't a candidate because he didn't really meet our inclusion criteria But through his own motivation, he pursued and pushed this and he went out of his way saying look I came into the military walking I'm gonna walk out of the military and We we did provide the unit for him. He is someone who can walk Quite well these days and on his retirement ceremony this past November He walked out of the military, which was a great goal of his and he's using in fact He was here in Washington for the paralyzed Veterans of America this week. So I got to see him some I'll second one. I'll use as a complaint. I got which is a kind of a this is back to I'm the applications I'm the practical side of the world for this point One of our users who was the first a person to get one through the VA in the United States Sergeant Terry Hannigan called me just two days ago and said I have a problem that I've never had in recent years and Okay, what what the problem's not products not working. She goes no I have a hole in my shoe I was walking my foot was dragging and I never had to replace my shoes before in my wheelchair I didn't walk enough and After walking for the the past couple years. She's put a hole in her shoe. So I agreed to buy her new pair of shoes But those are great stories. I'll use one other It's a practical one mother of two lady who has lost one leg and is also our lower leg and is also paralyzed She went his header system About eight months now nine months now And she wanted to take her daughter out trick-or-treating walking So she dressed up as Catwoman wearing our suit and that her and her daughter went trick-or-treating together this year in November So though those are we asked me? They're miraculous in that the motivation of the individuals have gone on with their life in a meaningful way And they're mundane in an extent I go and walk in with your daughter But it's those are as meaning as meaningful as anything we do. Yeah, I mean these stories are amazing You know people people complain about Technology and you know how our cell phones distract us and about how our kids are looking at screens all the time And this is the side of technology that just makes you go wow like you know Thank goodness we live in the 21st century and and you know are able to do things like this the Topic of this panel and the next panel is going to get into a little bit the idea of human enhancement of Going beyond trying to restore what we what some people would say are like normal or or you know sort of natural these terms are very problematic, but normal and natural human abilities and Actually enabling people to do things that you could not possibly do without technology But the the topic of this panel is can technology put an end to disability? You know that seems a long way off You know it seems maybe a little far-fetched, but do we would we even would we want to put an end to disability? Is there anything is there is there anything that would be lost in a world where technology? Has eliminated disability entirely? Well, I will say this is I'm a big proponent of diversity I think diversity in our society is really important But when we look at technology and how people interact with it and how we overcome some of what we might call physical Barriers or even even mental barriers When we think of that, right? We we start to say okay. Well, how can we move forward and how? Can this technology change as we go go into the future? So when we look at sensor technology that right now is allowing someone to ambulate What if we're allowing somebody that's paralyzed to ambulate like a ballerina ballerina and make it very elegant? Then we might not look at paralysis as a disability We might actually think of reading glasses as a disability So we might have to redefine that disability as we move forward And as we look at the technology sometimes we're looking at a lot of what's happening with the physical side We demonstrated that today of what's how we overcome some of these physical barriers But what about when we talk about going into the brain? So now there's a lot of initiatives happening right now for us to help understand the brain and diseases of the brain things like Alzheimer's memory PTSD concussions when we start going into the brain do we get concerned about enhancement? But what if we're able to treat these mental illnesses so much more effectively than we do today? What if we make mental illness and completely eradicate it because we're able to understand the brain better? And we're able to use technology to overcome some of these barriers that we have today I think I'd use the analogy of what we've done with antibiotics and other things we have changed the profile of And lifespan of people in one level of health For individuals with disability Yes, it gives perspective and I think it helps us appreciate For those of us that haven't experienced those types of things and it also allows us to interact with people in a different way and different level That is a part of the human experience But enhancing it Or providing technologies That solve one one thing will allow us to go other places and I think as a society We're going to see Enhancements and I would not find it unreasonable some of the stuff that you're working on Combines with the stuff that we're working on because it will help more people and it'll help them do things that We couldn't dream up today Great, I wanted to see if there are any questions from the audience if you have a question Maybe you can raise your hand and I think I think there's a mic that can be handed to you Dave Ockster research Institute for independent living This question is about transition of the technology to applied settings and back in 1948 there was an Academy Award winning movie best years of our lives and it was about this Veteran who was a double amputee above the elbows didn't have any hands and He was adapting his life to Independence in the community and they had a shop in there where he was putting a wedding ring on his bride I mean, that's how advanced the technology was this was in 1948 and 60 years later you start to wonder is that technology That was in 1948 being applied in the community today, you know and if not Why isn't it and that gets back into the transition of the technology into applied settings? Yeah, Larry, maybe that's a good question for you. I mean, why isn't this already ubiquitous? It's technologically possible I think there are even for what we do there are publications I can go back to 1948 I think was a Yugoslavia paper that talked about mechanical things that could allow someone the ability to walk once again The the advent of motors and gears and assemblies. That's been around for a while what didn't exist In and didn't really exist until the last ten years the three things that enabled what we are able to offer to the community our Demeratic improvements in battery technology so it can last all day. We talked a little bit about that Computing technology and software Is made a big difference because we can mimic human walking so you can do things We've had people do a 10k event in these at this stage and the improvement of sensing technology where they can control it independently And those are technologies that are newer all less than 10 years For for any of those at a level that we have I I would say the first Unit I saw dr. Gopher who is quadriplegic the gentleman who invented this in around? 2001 I think it was They were pushing along a cart with a desktop computer and monitor on it as the computing technology behind it And you know at this point we've got it down to something that's that's pretty small So I think what you saw or what we've seen from the movies You can do a lot with movies because you can change camera angles and do other things when you're trying to actually put it in someone's Kitchen or in someone's workplace. There's a lot of practical stuff. We have to do but I think you touched on something really important there Is that you know? We have some exciting research going on today And and really the u.s. Is one of the leaders in the world when it comes to this type of neuro technology And we have the brain initiative We have lots of funding from the NIH and DARPA that's helping us to explore this technology and move it forward Where we haven't put those resources is the translation to the consumer and that's what you're seeing today And that's what we have to start advocating for is to help move some of this funding into this translation piece So that the technology can get to the people for whom it's it was really truly intended and then there are some also Also some amazing cutting-edge technologies today that are really inherently possible only in A research setting. I did a story about a young man in Columbus, Ohio Who was left quadriplegic by a swimming accident? There's a technology that's actually Reconnecting his brain to his own hand to allow him to grasp objects to pick things up and feed himself But that required getting brain surgery. It required having Implants in his brain and he has to be they have to be wired. It's not, you know, he can't just Go anywhere with this. So there are some some still some serious technological Limitations, especially when you talk about the neural implant side of things But you touched on a really important that he's a great individual too but I call him one of our bionic pioneers because he's put his body forward to help move science forward and When we think about clinical trials and with a drug we can do a clinical trial You stop taking it you go to your treatment that you had previously, right with medical devices It's a different relationship So several people such as the gentleman you're talking about had an implant into his brain He's giving up his body to have to move science forward and what do we do? We have to have that ethical conversation of what do we do in that clinical trials over with if we were able to give Him the ability to have the use of his hand during a clinical trial and then we take that away again Is that a that's an ethical question? I think we need to address when we talk about medical devices We can take another question or two from the audience I think Laura, Laura Truman with the Heritage Foundation Wanted to ask there's a direct public policy relevance to the Social Security Disability insurance Program and we all know that that is in financial trouble. So has any study been done about what? Percentage of people who are on SSDI Based on you know the allocations of the different Muscular Skeletor mental illness, etc. That This technology as it exists today could enable to work I don't have figures off the top of my head. Do you The studies that I know that I'm aware of are the ones that look at this from a medical device standpoint And it's looking at it in terms of savings of health care costs How can I for instance for Diaphragm-Pacing they did a long-term study of being able to move people the consumers of those devices from a nursing home To their home environment when we look at doing the studies taking them in their home environment To being able to be to to work and get off of a public assistance I have I'm not aware of any of the studies that are doing it But it's definitely needed to be able to help make a case for this type of technology And to think in silos okay money going out through the health care reimbursement programs But then to think about money being saved through some of the assistance programs makes it an easier sell The average age in our clinical study was 31 years of age So you see people that are going to be around for a long time And we've got an advantage 10% of our employees are paralyzed That helps us get our products right and helps us live our lives right I'd like to see this extended more to that type of study and one of the things the FDA did require Even though it doesn't entirely attach is we are doing post-market studies of seeing how it's changing their patterns So we are at least measuring at home and we put a lot of software into our system where we can measure steps We can measure a lot of variables that the individual is using that we'll be able to collect and build some of that data The one other step beyond that someone who wasn't working who's back at work I we don't have and that's something we would like to have Do we have time for one more? Did someone else have a question? Hi, it's a prayer. I'm in the Department of Transportation I have a question for you. How do you respond to people who talk about you perpetuating negative stereotypes of disability as something That needs to be eradicated. I think you're really touching on a whole diversity issue and how we need to To think of ourselves as not just all able-bodied people, but how we interact with those with disabilities Regardless of what he does in his private life Oscar Pesorius really Came over a barrier in the world of sport where he was able to have someone with a prosthetic limb Compete against able-bodied people and that's brings them together And it really opens up that whole conversation about how people with disabilities can interact and work together with people with That that are able-bodied and and I think that's integration of the society is something we really need to think about You know you can almost use an example across society there All types of people and it's no different in the disability group and as I've gotten to work with so many individuals There's no difference Relative to most of the things we're doing and wanting in everyday life And I think you learn that So you're going to see examples on all ends of the spectrum whether you're able-bodied or have something that is limited So maybe we can maybe we can conclude with a final thought that we didn't get to something that you would want people to Take away from this conversation This is there's a lot. There's a lot going yeah, could see first But I think there's a couple of key key points to think about I think one is that the the neuro technology and the and the investment that we've made in research and development is extremely exciting and And it's it's it's exhilarating to see and and what we're doing to be able to to Work with people with different types of neurological conditions to help overcome those conditions I think we need to look at what our societal role is in terms of adapting and integrating that technology into people's lives as We learn more how do we move it from the laboratory to the consumer and being able to build that bridge? Is such an important piece for us? And I'll leave you with with one last comment is that you know the the neuro technologies that we have today We need to think about how we bring those into being as normal as as we Do a cell phone so think about this type of technology and how we integrate it into our lives We think we can't live without our cell phones today But think about how we can do that with all these other types of technologies to eradicate different types of disabilities And I'll relate to that I get to work a little further upstream So I get to see certain things that you dream about and I'm getting to do them and it happened for a reason though I come back to we had a gentleman who's a quadriplegic who wanted to be able to provide others the ability to walk again And he dedicated a decade or more of his life to that and we're going to implement that now And I think there's a message that we all have to be cognizant of is what is possible It is possible for someone to Clare Lomas to do a marathon in London It is she's one of the early paraplegics that got this product It is possible for one of our walkers to take her daughter out on things on Halloween get my holidays right So the world will continue to advance. We're at the beginning and I do Look very much forward to what we can do But also the combinations of other technologies and if we can keep society aware of it's going to continue to advance So let's believe and and look for this down the road We'll I'll get I'll keep implementing you keep it many. That's a deal It was also possible for Jennifer to win a silver medal in the Paralympics, that's right Yeah, I actually used this technology not while I was competing But actually to be able to get around the village and to be able to build up my strength So I was able to compete in that sport and the sport of sailing. So that was fun. Thank you so much for being here Thanks everyone for joining us