 Seeing that we have a quorum of town council members present I call the second meeting of the council town council to order at seven o'clock Welcome all this meeting is being broadcast live and being recorded by Amherst media copies of the agenda are in the back of the room We will be joined at by around eight o'clock by Councillor Ball mom and we will be joined by the town clerk At some time into the meeting she had a personal event. Are there any Announcements comments or adjustments to the agenda by their members of the council or the town manager at this time Seeing none. I will just point out that the agenda this time has Items on it that we are putting there and they will be there as a routine But obviously if we don't have anything that fits under that item, we will just go on to the next To the best of my knowledge, there are no resolutions or proclamations we'll then move on to public comment and The town requires a public comment period at every public meeting The council will not engage in in a dialogue or comment on matters raised during the public comment period May I see a show of hands of people who would like to be recognized to speak I See one In that case Please rise come to the floor and share with us your comments. We'd like you to keep them to three minutes if possible That's not over. You got it all First time I've addressed the public body in Amherst although most of my career was addressing bodies widely separated places Two things have caused me to come one is having gone to a meeting about the common in the parking and traffic With some people from Grace Church. I'm not representing Grace Church I'm representing myself as someone who's been there a long time and who observes what I'm telling you about and And the fact that there's a feeling of town government is accessible now, and that's a very happy feeling I'm concerned about the Main Street parking lot because of the what I see as an usher sometimes and what I see is people coming to services That parking is extremely important to the church because it's close And there are lots of there were an aging population And I can tell you that feet changed over the Decades and that's a concern because more and more people are using walkers using cushions when they get there So I know there are other Constituencies that have concerned about the the Main Street parking, but my interest is Grace Church. It's it's a busy place during Not only on Sundays, but on evenings and during the day educational events devotional events and you may know there are a number of concerts that use the sanctuary, so it's extremely important and Because of that I would urge the council or suggest to recommend a council appoint a committee Because I know there's urgency with the town common plan, but I think it would behoove everybody if there were More public representation. I know the town staff had worked very hard And I know there's could you lean forward to the Mike and I know that There's a desire to get moving Yet, I think that Often some a group could say we've done wait waited so long and now we have to do something But I think it's a little bit more time wouldn't hurt. So hopefully I'm within three minutes and thank you for your attention Thank you for your comment Is there anyone else that cares to comment during the public comment period? Yes, sir, please come forward and state your name Good evening. My name is Andy Anderson. I'm living district five. I Want to thank you all for Your efforts here is the new town of Amherst Council this is a historic gathering one of the other historic features of the new charter is the Call for the use of ranked choice voting to elect the members of the council and I see that on the agenda tonight there is a Item to establish the committee that is laid out in the town Charter So just want to say a few words about the importance of this You may have seen many of the news reports about the use of the historic use of ranked choice voting for elections in Maine it's been supported by newspapers from Hampshire be that to the Boston Globe to the New York Times to the Washington Post it is a System that has been introduced many times in the state legislature by our former state representative Ellen story It has been supported by a current rep Solomon Goldstein rose. It's supported by our Legislator elect Mindy Dom and our state senator Joe Cumberford It is a system that in the recent Question five on the ballot was supported by 69 percent of the residents of Amherst So the people of Amherst are hungry for this It is something that I believe we could actually put into place in time for the next election in November of 2019 even though the system that was set up Does allow for the first use possibly be to be as late as November 2021 So this does to do it earlier it does require that this committee be established as soon as possible and Hopefully this is just a perfunctory vote to get it started But I just wanted to make a plug for the importance of doing this sooner rather than later because it will take Most of the time available to us in order to bring this about by November. Thank you Thank you for your comment. Is there anyone else that wishes to comment at this time The next item on that is listed on the agenda, but we will not be attending to tonight's hearings We therefore are going to move on to presentations and discussions And I just want to point out this is not a period in which we will be taking action on these items it is merely a period to discuss and Since we are a public body these kinds of discussions have to be held in public And so we hope that they will be as educational for you as they will be for those of us on the council The first item on for discussion and this does not require a motion is a proposed standing committees of the council and Since this was my item Let me just spend a little time Mentioning a few things about it First of all in the process of putting this forward There's nothing sacred. I Enjoy edits. I enjoy other people's ideas and I am not offended by them It is listed under the discussion section because that's exactly what it is. It is not an action item It is a starting place for our discussion about how we should organize as a council and We are required as I mentioned before to do this in public So as I looked at this issue I looked at a couple different towns our cities if you will or in our case the city to be known as the town of Amherst and they vary all over the place some have mayors some have councils and professional managers presidents of councils and As you look at their committee structures, they range all over the place as well Northampton for example has four Franklin has six Cambridge has 11. I lived in Cambridge. No prize So what I then looked at What issues are important to individual council members and can you find your issues in these? committees Then another area is our Most if not all functions of the council in the town of Amherst come covered by these committees and Then finally is the task or focus of most if not all committees of the town of Amherst neatly found within these committees and again this is not The end all to be all it is merely put there for your discussion. So I open the floor for that purpose Councillor Shane Do we still need to hold the button down? Yes How would you like us to have the discussion about this because for example on finance committee? One of the things I'd like to talk about is how many people it's clear in the charter We will have that committee So we've got a question of the number of people and the number of non-voting Council members so that seems to be a different discussion than the others So it's it's a question. I'm asking should we do them one at a time? Should we do miss the set? I think one at a time would be appropriate But let's start with the issue of only one of these is required by the charter and that is the finance committee and the Finance committee does require based on the charter that there be three members of the council and they are voting members and That there will be other members residents of Amherst and they are not voting members So in that case under each of these you will see that I have not designated the number of councillors Nor have I talked about non-voting. I mean no nor have I spoken about the residents. So let's begin with And let's go through each of them and then at we finish that just talk about whether or not we feel There are is a different organizational structure talk about whether or not we feel there's something missing and so forth So let's start with finance I may just not have found it but in the charter I didn't find a number I do find finance committee and so I It's on Mandy probably can help me out here But on page 18 is where it mentions it, but it doesn't say how many so that's why it started with just whether it's three four five The current finance committee has in the town has seven on it So I just don't I don't see a number in the charter counselor Hanna key There is no number in the charter as far as I know I'm the only number that we talked about in terms of any Committee is that there is a minimum number of committee members for multiple member bodies And that is three as a minimum, but the finance committee and any other committee I don't believe has and I just look there. It doesn't have a Number specified so under the word three just cross that out and leave it blank and we'll have that discussion. Thank you Finance committee. Yes, Councilor Brewer one of the things that's so fascinating about Building this airplane as we're flying in is I feel that finance committee should be talked about in Context with Joint Capital Planning Committee and budget coordinating group as well because saying I know we have to Have you appoint the finance committee sooner rather than later in terms of where we are in the budget cycle? But I think it would be a mistake to assume that we don't need to also be talking about BCG and JCPC at the same time And so there might be people who would serve on all three of those there might be people who spread themselves around Associated with that and I think if we don't talk about the context of the different Finance bodies that talk about the budget. We would be missing something So I'm not sure the best way to approach that but I feel like we need to bring that into the okay Do you want to go further on and talk about those at this point Council Brewer? The Charter does mention both bodies. They are somewhat different than they were under the previous form of government Although not drastically different although there have been some interpretations that see the budget coordinating group as being more of a town manager Body then it was previously considered more independent So I think a lot of this is just up for discussion And maybe it makes sense tonight because you've outlined all these things to talk about all the things But before we make a final decision about finance committee to kind of circle back to those other two finance budget involved bodies okay other comments are Things to be added to the finance committee conversation. Yes Is there an expectation that council members will be on say two to three committees it certainly is an ex if you look at the number of council members of which there are 12 and 13 counting myself and I'm as much likely to be on a committee as anyone else And you look at the number of committees There would be an expectation that a council member would be on at least one committee But it certainly could be that they would be on more than one because it seems that the finance if you're on the finance committee And you have to belong to those two other groups that the person who's on the finance committee has a really heavy load It does seem that way. Yes Yeah, other observations. Yes Councillor Steinberg Having been a chair of the former finance committee I think it might be helpful if I just take a moment to talk about the relation between The committees and what the general function of the finance committee might be under our new form of government In the prior form of government we had the select board was the executive and The finance committee was actually a part of the legislative branch. It was a and a committee appointed by the town moderator and its job was Very explicitly The words were to advise the town, but that is code word in Way law was written at the time it was developed town meant town meeting So when there was appointments to the joint capital planning committee and the budget coordinating group There were two Representatives from the finance committee as it then existed in two representatives from the select board is it was then Designated as well as two members from the school committee the library trustees and then professional staff Who have a significant role? That was the general structure of the committees and one of the things that we do need to think about is because our role is Legislative, but it was also has some executive responsibility and appointing and setting priorities for the town manager How that all fits in and how many Members we envision going forward how that balance works And the the functioning we see so it is a difficult issue. I also see that the finance committee is going to probably be Working a little bit throughout the year. It's not going to just be at the time that the town manager Proposes a budget But we're going to have to define what that ongoing Responsibility is going to be it will be very different from the prior finance committee because the prior finance committee Actually had a long time between when the town manager's budget was provided in January and When town meeting report was put together and recommended budget came from The finance committee to the town meeting under the new form of government that we're now operating under We may be providing advice to the town manager some guidance, but The town manager is going to propose a budget and we're going to have a much shorter period of time Once we receive it before we have to act on the budget than under the prior form of government Okay, that's very useful any further or specific comments about joint capital planning or The budget coordinating committee Joint capital planning has yes, okay. Okay. I just wanted to shame I wanted to build on with council woman for where it said My understanding is that both of these the finance committee a budget coordinating committee and joint capital Should or would normally be meeting start to meet now. I mean the budget is moving I mean either this minute or in January, so I think trying to think of how are we Populating those as a group is important So joint capital as Andy just said had to select board and to finance on it Correct the way the Charter's written we have town council members on it with no number. That's correct And maybe some other people so we could put finance on so making that decision as a Capital proposal start to flow into the town. I think if we don't do it tonight We should have a longer discussion at the next meeting Because I looked at their schedule and the schedule usually was to start meeting in January. Okay Other particular comments observations about finance Councilman Burr. I think it's important to hear from the town manager at some point in here Not too long from now about how he perceives the Somewhat change roles of these bodies given the change in the Charter and given the practical nature of day-to-day work So joint capital planning was always something that was advising staff basically as opposed to it being its own decision-making body that it while it While it did make recommendations to town meeting The way it was written in the town government act was that it was advising It became somewhat more powerful than that in some respects And so I think just trying to understand what each of these bodies will do Well the finance committee like the old finance committee will who met with department heads on a regular base That you get presentations from all the different parts of town Would the council's finance committee do that or would it be would the role be more limited of the council's finance committee? because no longer advising town meeting Advising this body and so I'm frankly confused As to exactly where some of those lines are gonna be drawn and we may need to redraw them a little like the lines May be a little blurry as we go forward But I I don't think that just because we have words like council instead of town meeting It's still a hundred percent clear What each of those bodies is expected to do and at what point especially given the changed nature of the budget cycle, okay? Councillor Hanna key you had your hand up and then I want to ask the town manager whether or not he would speak to that question Councillor Hanna key so if we're looking at specific wording I would just say it might be helpful to include in the wording for the finance committee the Authority that the charter gives the finance committee under 55 B Because it it could be read as slightly different than the wording In the current mm-hmm. What was proposed? Yeah, I'll go broad to and say member wise I think because the residents would be non-voting per the charter if they are not council members that it would be I would recommend an odd number of counselors on the committee whether that be three or five And then maybe an even number of residents to keep the total committee membership odd, but that doesn't Need to be necessary and then I would also actually like to hear from the town manager on his idea of size of JCPC and BCG in terms of Council representation on that those two committees to Before I ask the town manager to speak to this Is there anything in this group of questions that we would like him to consider in his response? Mr. Vakaman, thank you, Madam President. I think in terms of the finance committee You should expect that there will be The function of the old finance committee will be replicated in some respects With a new finance committee. I think the Council would expect and I would expect that our department has would make presentations to the finance committee in a timely fashion Because I think what you as a council is going to want to know that Your finance committee has evaluated the budget and can make an informed recommendation to the full council In many communities all council members attend the budget hearings of the finance committee and that's an option That's available to you as well. So I think the finance committee Excuse me it will be very not dissimilar to the previous finance committee the timelines will be different though because it's the council the manager Does not have to present a budget till May 1st the council has until I think it's May 1st and the council has a time to adopt it By June 30th But I think we would start that process. There isn't a Time urgency at this moment in time. We are still doing our own internal staff budget hearings Which is where I meet with department heads and groups from the department to hear what their proposals are and then From that information I build a budget that I then would present To the council and then the council would react to that For the other two groups the budget coordinating group and the joint capital planning committee Those are really just those are the budget community coordinating group is really a communication tool It's a way for the three The elected bodies to communicate with each other and to be on the same page as we progress through the budget making process So that's you know, I don't think you have to worry about the number of it's not it's usually isn't a voting Role for the BCG it really is about communication keeping everybody up to speed on where we are What the latest budget projections are and things like that so that the board of library trustee is the school committee and the council We'll be all on the same page with the staff as we are working through the budget process JCPC again is an advisory committee to the to the manager the way I read it and But but it's a very important one because this is the committee where The elected bodies from the town get together and kind of weigh the challenges that every each of them Faces libraries the schools in the town and there's discussion about prioritizing things given the limited resource we inevitably have so That will happen again later in January most likely are there further questions to the town manager to clarify any of those Descriptions Yes, councilman. I just change is it helpful to have the four people that were on before I mean now We're talking that is it it's to town council people to from finance which could be the Extra Pete the non-voting members of finance so having four people on do you have any sense of the size of it? I Had not thought about having to Basically you're saying we do you want four counselors representing the council or I guess if we If we have a finance committee that has three or five council members and two other people on finance They could also be in theory on JCPC right Yeah, I mean I think it's something I think you It'd be wise to have a conversation with the school committee in the board of library library trustees to make sure that They're not feeling overwhelmed by the council, but I understand what you're saying It could be non-council members who are represented And that would certainly be an option as well Yeah council p.m. It's not clear to me whether these The people who sit on these three committees of the finance committee and then the other two committees should be the same People or whether you want to spread them around That's really just a practical question That really is an issue to take up with the council That's not an issue with the manager. Yes Councilor de Angelis I See advantage to having at least one council member who is on all three and Sort of streamlines Communications between the three and be and with us that's count the council So I would like to see that happen. Hopefully having a volunteer Who would do that maybe more than one council who did that, but I would love to see a volunteer for that Okay, thank you other questions on the mix if you will a finance committee joint capital planning and The budget coordinating committee Then let's go back to the larger Description if you will as it appears here, although clearly it needs to be Taken back and Include all of the words that are in 5.5 B of the charter Are there other issues here that raise questions or other issues that you feel needs need to be Placed with the finance committee Councillor Haneke I was thinking that Moving since finance committee has issues with capital assets already proposed and there is a JCPC issue and capital improvements seem to go with finance the Proposal under planning an economic development committee that had infrastructure and capital assets I thought would actually be better in the finance committee's Role instead of the planning and development role so I would suggest Moving it from that committee up to the finance committee the infrastructure and capital assets Further comments or statements about that councilman for counselor One of the things I'm struggling with a little is and maybe Mr. Steinberg can help us out again or Mr. Backelman But the advantage of course is we have a year-round government now But finance committee has typically been and this is not a negative statement, but a reactive body So the finance committee looks at the budget that the town manager is going to be proposing They look at the articles that were being forward brought forward to town meaning say from conservation associated with the purchase of land and Everything was on the town meaning schedule now. We have things all year round now So in addition to the budget being perhaps somewhat more of a it is already really a year-round effort These other items would be too and so I think that's part of where I'm trying to Figure out all the things that fall under their purview Because if the conservation commission is not going to be limited to talking about things that spring or fall town meaning or Associated necessarily with a budget cycle it could be at some other point During the course of the year and we would expect as as I believe from from the wording We've got here for the finance committee to go ahead and make a recommendation to the council You know, whether that's in August as opposed to during the actual budget cycle So does does that make sense that this is this is something that is Going to be playing a larger day-to-day role in All of the work that we do rather than having a ton of work over a relatively short period of time and then a calmer period of time It it does make sense to me, but other con counselors Yes counselor Steinberg your following up on what Ms. Brewer said The finance committee was charged under the old form of government to provide advice to the town meeting About the financial implications of all other articles. It didn't mean that the it was a second version of a planning board or necessarily would have a role in developing or Changing what was in plan in planning? But if there was an obvious financial consequence to a planning proposal, it was that was the limit of its charge was to provide advice to the town meeting about whether there were financial consequences to the article the Words that are under right now in the draft under planning and economic development committee infrastructure and capital assets Maybe that That also is really what we're talking about with the joint capital planning committee that is thinking about those issues and So the question is to whether that Little piece of it Belongs where where that most appropriately belongs The other thing is is that It is a year-round committee in its prior format in the town meeting and I envision it is having a year-round Role to some extent in the same way. It doesn't mean that it was meeting Continuously throughout the year or and it certainly had more intensity during one part of the years the budget was being developed but just to you know people were asking about this after the Saturday meeting when we were talking about the region budget and Somebody asked me the question. Well, however, the school is going to know how much money to develop into their budget and how does how does that happen and That also was most directly related to the conversation on Saturday regarding regional schools What happened in the past was that in October The town manager and the finance director would make a report on the financial circumstances of the town a fairly broad general report many of you attended this year and then if the is the part of that projections are made about the year ahead in that last year FY 20, which is the budget we're about to be developing and In there there was a recommendation of what might be considered For the appropriate amount for the schools and the library to use in developing their budgets and for the town manager to use Developing his budgets this Round for the final time the old finance committee did convene and did issue guidelines essentially Analyzing and commenting and then repeating the recommendations from the Prior process that we had in place and the October meeting And of course next year. We're gonna have to have a different process in place for doing that if the council either directly or through The finance committee is going to have a role in saying Yes, the projections indicate that these are appropriate figures. We think they're appropriate figures Go forward develop budgets and bring them back to us Additional comments on this Okay, before we move on to the next does anybody else Care to comment on the makeup of the finance committee So far the one comment has been there there be three to five counselors and an even number of residents so let me just Try to summarize a bit here what I'm hearing is from the planning and economic development committee that the Infrastructure and capital asset function would be moved up to finance and that in finance We need to go back and cite the specific words if you will from 5.5 B of the charter that distress that it is a year-round committee and That from this committee would most likely come the members to J Joint capital planning and also to budget coordinating and That the Man it and there would be an expectation as the manager has stated that There would be presentations to the finance committee from the various departments, etc from around the town Now I'm not asking for a motion. I'm just summarizing so that as we move to a rewrite that we've said those things and again at this point the The only comment on makeup of the committee is that it consists of three to five counselors and As voting members and an even number of residents Okay, yes counsel Can we talk about that composition just a little more and and hopefully some other people other than me will talk But I'm feeling at this point as we're inventing here that We probably need a larger number than we might otherwise Someday decide we need associated a larger number of counselors on this than may be necessary in future years Just to get us started and so I am believing at this point that five counselors and two Non-counselor residents would probably be roughly the right number I would not want to have more than two non-counselor residents I would want to have a substantially larger number of counselors there But there might be people with specific expertise in the community that we could certainly talk to at any time But there might be a couple that would really be a good fit for an initial finance committee under this new regime But I would really like to see us Have at least five counselors on there from the standpoint as well of having many people engaged But also then that would make it easier if we do decide to choose JCPC and BCG out of that group Then it would feel to me that they would come as counselors They would not be non-voting residents that would be on those bodies And so five gives you more people to choose from for those other two bodies. Okay additional comments councillor Steinberg I guess the only thing that I would say we Could give some thought to yet is the question of whether all council members of the joint capital planning committee Need to be members of the finance committee or whether there could be other members of this council who are not on the finance committee Who are on JCPC? Because there's really two separate roles And need to separate to distinguish them one is the amount of money to put into the capital plan for the year ahead and That certainly Is something that's going to be discussed in the finance committee But the other is once you've done that and you've decided how much money we have to invest in our capital needs in any given year The question of what are the specific projects and how do we Wave the request from the library for some specific items and how do we weigh the similar request from the town municipal departments and from the schools is not specifically Financial matter it's a priority matter. And so we may Not want to have to require that every council member on JCPC be a member of the finance committee. Okay Other yes, Councilor Pam This is to council Councillor Brewer Why only two people from residents Wouldn't I would think maybe you'd want for Councillor Brewer did you want to respond that's actually really not necessary but if you want to Okay Other comments. I I'm going to step back and say on a comment on actual the composition I Have a personal preference that we would have some additional people from the residents beyond to I think this is one of those many ways in which we can increase participation by our residents and so I'm not saying that's how the final form will come out. It's just I wanted to express my own opinion Are there any other comments on the finance committee? If not, we're going to move on to planning an economic development committee and note that we have If you will moved infrastructure and capital assets To finance but I do want to point out as Councillor Steinberg has said many of the issues relating to capital and Assets and infrastructure are beyond just the financial side of it. So There was some thought as you look at this To planning an economic development that it kind of rests in more than one place Yes, Councillor Shan Having seen the title of this I looked at a few other towns many towns actually have this committee And so it made sense to me that we'd have it what I found is in The example I'm going to use is Cambridge because I didn't do all of them But Cambridge in addition to what you had drafted here put in town gown a Link on economic development. So it's working with the educational institutions Developing some exchange with them on how they're affecting the development and the economy of the town So I was going to suggest an additional sentence and I'm not sure how to word that but it was missing and Amherst is so much entwined with our university and our colleges It feels like that should be part of this issue of economic development Okay Yes, Councillor Schreimer So I haven't had the chance to study every town. I did look at Northampton, which has a lean and mean committees of the Council But on the other hand, they have a robust committees You know general committees So I think that may be part of the question here is like when do we need a committee of the Council? And when do we need another or an existing committee that will include counselors? But can be more expansive. So even the discussion about the you know, the finance committee There are some Arguments that that is almost beyond the committee of the council It's a committee with counselors on it that advises the council, but it's and under sea where the select board in its effort to help Ease the transition if you will to the council form of government, they have done this extensive Collection of all of the committees. I think one of the questions I had as I was trying to pull this together was is Does every committee need to be able to relate to one of the council committees or Maybe not. I mean there's ad hoc committees. There's all kinds of study committees Counselor Schreiber. Yeah, so I Conservation in it I know that the planning board itself is very interested in say a joint zoning subcommittee. So that could be Somehow related to this where the planning board plus a small group of counselors could be those Working together or to look at the zoning bylaws Could you just repeat that please a joint the planning board itself? Yes was interested in so right now They have a subcommittee. They were interested in the prospect of perhaps a joint zoning subcommittee That includes the council or at least parallel zoning subcommittee so that we're not canceling each other's efforts Okay, because either body can the town council or the planning board can propose Say zoning bylaw changes. At some point they have to go to the planning board, right? By the way, this does not prohibit that an individual Committee of the town at some point would make a presentation Directly to the council. It just means that there is a body under which similar things that the council is dealing with are talked about our coordinated Have a place in which we are thinking of the larger picture, not just individual committees Councilor Milblum Well, no So I can see how these different topics can be put under one committee like planning zoning and this housing and Environmental stewardship and I'm just trying to envision what the agenda and meetings are gonna look like and how are we gonna be able to Focus on different and will we be able to really? Do deep work when there is so many different facets that we're covering in a single committee Or are they going to be subcommittees within this or how would that work? There could I I assume there could be subcommittees I also assume there may be committees of the town that have names that are exactly like what are in here and You that this committee of the council would then make sure that it's a breast of what is going on with the committee of the town for example In the whole area of environmental stewardship or sustainability There may be a town committee for sustainability but the committee on planning and economic development would be in touch and know what's going on with that committee and the counselors on that committee would Spend some of their time in that manner Yes, Councilor DeMond. I guess I'm wondering I know that Northampton has a framework very similar to this But I'm wondering If This is necessary if it's a you know like an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy And What you know how it will be helpful because maybe it will be helpful. I just am not quite seeing How it will work? If we already have the committees that exist I'm just wondering if a particular initiative that will be one more hoop that it will have to go through Before it gets to the actual council So If you could explain that I Would appreciate it in my again looking at how other councils have organized My thinking was that if you are dealing with a variety of committees that in Some way or linked we all sit in meetings and say did you know that so-and-so committee is also discussing that so rather than have Those various committees all come to the council the pot the Responsibility of these committees of the council would be to help pull that together Perhaps make some ask some committees to have joint meetings together So that there is some way in which we are collectively taking the responsibility of thinking of the whole versus thinking of the individual pieces and again, I throw it out as an idea for discussion and The group may decide they don't want to be organized this way. Yes, Councillor Haneke So I Was going to say something similar to councillor Demont and Shriver I'm looking at the whole list and this sort of steps back from just one committee I was thinking about what do we want our committees to do? And the way I was thinking about committees was that we should have committees to help us as a council get our work done and So I looked at some of these You know governance organization legislation one that sees all the bylaws that to me makes a lot of sense because we are tasked with passing bylaws And so a committee that That gets funneled to before it comes to us to me make some sense So there's a couple of things like that that we are tasked with that I think a committee could really help with appointments bylaws Maybe some other things and then we've got policy making to do and I think the question becomes in my mind How is it best for us to get our policy making done? Is it done in a council as a whole? Is it done in committees? And I think that's where councillor Dumont was Sort of asking to like what what are these committees going to do? Is it another layer or is it not and so I guess I'm struggling with Specifically the planning and economic development and the town services committee the non appointments part of the and review of the town Services committee What would their role be that helps us as a council get our work done or get our policy done? And I'm having problems envisioning that in my own mind. Okay Councilor Schreiber So I'm gonna plus one to that The placebo yeah Thank you, and we focus on things you know issues that other Parts of government can't deal with but that would be a way of framing the macro committees And you know as seen how this discussion goes, maybe I mean maybe we can start with some critical Standing committees and then other ones as they seem there as there seems to be a demand so if you Look at it from that framework finance obviously is there a portion of town services and appointments because the appointments function is there and the Governance organization and legislation is really the bylaws the rules etc Those are the kind of essentials if you will the other one that has not been discussed at all is communications and outreach and I this really came from my own experience of trying to think about our responsibility to Do our district meetings do our annual forums and so forth and to what extent do we Would we like to have some way in which we have a coordinated approach to those we identify maybe Two months in the spring and two months in the fall when we always hold those meetings That we have some standard materials we take to those meetings some items We want to discuss at those meetings and bring back to the council Is there a way in which we want some assistance in terms of how we think about and organize for those meetings? that again, it's not a quote policymaking function, but it is a Function that we must pay serious attention to based on the charter and our own feelings of communication Yes Councilman, I also really like the idea of the communications and outreach committee But have some Issues with the governance organization and legislation committee because number two review ordinances orders and resolutions and consultation with the town attorney I Think that we would Receive consultation from the town attorney in any event about these Matters that come to us, so I'm not sure that we need a group of us To work with the town attorney to do that Because it feels to me like it would be something in the order of an executive committee of the council because this is very important Yeah, it's interesting because even as I read in other towns Our cities Couple of them require that just about anything that might affect a law bylaw Whatever has to then go through this committee before it then comes on to the council. So at that point you've already have Somebody coming to one of the sub one of the committees of the council and even that committee of the council going on to this legislative committee The first function is actually something that we've already appointed an ad hoc Committee to and that is the committee on internal rules So what I may be hearing from you Counselor Dumont is That number two maybe is not something that belongs in a committee but stays as all of the council But counselor Ryan you had your hand up No, okay Yes, counselor Steinberg. Yeah, the other way that I was looking at it is that Something I'll use planning and economic development Topics that are listed for that committee If they if that committee is Hearing from the planning board and has discussions from the planning board about something that's being proposed It is going through that committee Would seem that that's where the review should be and that I Was there for a little bit uncertain as to why we would have a second committee once the first committee has taken on that function you know I That's one reason why I did not include that Comment if you will are that kind of function in The governance organization legislative committee. It seemed like adding even yet another layer Yes, counselor Dumont One other thing that I would suggest Following Northampton's lead again Is if we were to create a Planning and economic development committee that we call it Maybe planning economic development and sustainability Since we do have sustainability as our overarching principle The the office in Northampton is called the office of planning and sustainability There their town staff office counselor Pam getting back to the Communications and outreach committee in terms of our district forums I See that not as a Arranged by a council committee But as something done by the individual counselors with the town government because I was thinking if we want to have different Department heads come and speak That really we'd have to make that schedule with the town to figure out when is the best time and rotate them through So we can't all be trying to have the same people at the same time I Just a logistics issue What I was trying to do was create something where those kinds of requests would at least be in a coordinated way so that the And if for example, we have something of great importance to the town that we would like to hear More broadly from that we all have similar materials to take out to our council meetings It's not to tell individual counselors what to do at their meetings, but it's to support individual counselors in Getting what they need for their meetings Is I are we are saying the same thing or not? Well, I guess I saw a bigger role for the town government As opposed to the town council in that okay Councillor Schreiber. Yeah, so just back to Northampton So they have four four committees as I can tell of the council one's finance ones legislative matters one city services and one on community resources so back to them The point that some of us have been making that something like this could be incredibly valuable as a Committee of the you know, especially the sustainability energy part so as a council of the I'm sorry as a committee of the town rather than a committee of the council So I think we do have to pay attention to Really where we individually need, you know, where we as a group of 13 need expertise Versus where the expertise is, you know outside of us So is that a suggestion that we not have a committee like that or that we have a committee like that And it includes members of the town I'm sort of probing the Question as to whether or not we need this at this point. Okay Yes, council Yeah, the planning and economic development and sustainability, right. Thank you. Council Ross Thank you. So I don't know that I have fully formed opinion on this yet But one of the roles I think that this could serve Especially under planning and economic development which has as defined a fairly broad scope Is that we we certainly don't want to be in a situation where we are Overruling the expertise that lies in our our citizen committees however in in some situations where we have Many different citizen committees that are all different and yet impact Have impacts that relate it might be and it might be coming forward to us with proposals or ideas The role of such a committee could be to sort of interface With the citizen committees to figure out how we bring things forward So I don't know that such a situation would exist But if we had the planning board had stuff to bring to the council and the ZBA and maybe the housing trust It could be the role of the committee to then figure out how they prior how we prioritize those proposals And work with those to bring them to the council because at current I'm not quite sure how if I was the housing trust or if I was the planning board and I wanted to bring something before The council I suppose I would email you as our president Which makes sense? But in the future you may find yourself With a very full inbox from different committees And it may be wise if there was some type of intermediary That they know that those boards know okay if you want to get this on the council agenda Your first stop is perhaps consulting with the planning and economic committee that then will go to the president and figure out How do we prioritize these issues over time? And so that's one way in which a committee could serve Not necessarily to be the expertise on the issues, but to help the council organize and prioritize what is coming from our other committees Okay council brewer I Am I remain concerned as we continue to circle around about this and it's been a really interesting discussion That we are adding layers that we don't need yet We may need them for exactly the reasons Counselor Ross just pointed out But I would much rather at this time not have a planning and economic development committee Even though I do want us to move forward on a sustainability committee, which is a separate committee that may have counselors on it But more importantly has a variety of people from the community that have expertise in that area And it's something we've been waiting on until we knew we had the council in place I feel like we are going to end up with this extra layer of people having to go through something or people to send something back to When we're not sure yet what that's going to look like and I really caution us to while we look at other communities North Hampton doesn't have the answer North Hampton is has a mayor and North Hampton is based on tweaking of Many years of history and when you join that council, those are the committees Those are and then they tweak it a little bit this way and they tweak it a little bit that way We have the opportunity to make a start here where we do the things we absolutely have to do like rules Like by laws like finance committee and then we sit here and we realize, you know We'd really like some other people to work on this issue and maybe eventually over the course of a year So we figure out what the umbrella is all those things fit under But I really am worried about adding layers and umbrellas and whatever metaphors we're using here When we don't yet need them because we have plenty to do without trying to coordinate a Planning board presentation to us as a committee I think right now leaving that to our president to then and if there are too many things that are happening For the president to come back to the council and say wow three different committees want to present to us over the next month How do you think we might balance that and then maybe out of that conversation? We'll say okay you two people go off and work on that, but I I just don't want to set up this many structures to begin with Okay Councillor Schraub so other organizations that are trying to find their feet off and start with trial committees So sort of ad hoc committees. I assume this is all trial I yeah, yeah, so I would suggest that what Councilor Brewer and many others have mentioned might be a lean and mean might be a way to start So if we yes council Ryan the distinction was made earlier between committees that help us get our work done and Committees that are looking one range deal with policy And at the moment it seems like planning an economic development committee is the only one that really is concerned with policy And the others are more concerned with helping us Get our work done Anyway, the thought is lean and mean sounds good to me as well And we should develop perhaps other committees as as needed But right now perhaps focus on what helps us get our work done in the meantime right now Okay council bone Not not knowing I'm not sure what the timing of this committee should be for the economic development But I think that we do need to address some of the issues of the kind of development we are having and how to really utilize our assets whether it's creating employment opportunities or Increasing a tax base because that was a common concern that many of us did hear of the rising property taxes and So it feels like and we do not right now have a committee around economic development So I'm not saying it needs to be a committee at the council level. Maybe it's a blend of ideally of council members as well as residents with the expertise But I would like to see an economic development and sustainability committee Which is really helping us utilize the assets that we have the cultural assets the historic assets are Universities and how to use that to generate more revenue to engage people more to make sure everyone is Reaching the potential of living the kind of life they want whether it's housing whether it's jobs or So Okay, but not necessarily a committee of the council. I'm not I Mean, I don't know what the pros and cons would be to have it just I mean in my mind I can see the benefit of having council members as well as residents from different expertise. Okay. Yes, Councilor DeAngelo's I support having this committee because I think they're There is a way in which I envision it as counselors who are participating on the other committees being the people that feed us and So that everything isn't going to be lumped on the president or we're going to have three presentations because we're there would be an ease of communication from The zoning board meeting or the planning board meeting and what we were taught and we were bringing that to each other in this In a discussion format. I think the councillor Griezmer said something important when she talked about holistic We're constantly in this town. It seems to me. We're working at cross purposes You know the planning board does something and they don't listen to the design committee or they do or you know There are all these ways, but if we could bridge if we could be the communicators between these different committees To make it whole. I think that would be very valuable Okay Councilor Bellman. Yeah, I agree with councilor Angel is completely but DeAngelo's thank you and And I think the one other benefit of that is giving another opportunity for people to participate when we have that committee So the public again has that layer instead of just making the town council as the one I mean, I know there are many opportunities for people to participate But that committee becomes another avenue to receive the comments some of them And then bring distilled those into the bigger council Other comment. Yes Thank you, madam president So I think you've hit all the key points of the conversation the first I think but you can prioritize the first order is How are you going to manage your business and the urgency is the Charter had already anticipated a finance committee. So you need to address that one you will be asked or have been asked to make Appointments so you need a process for managing that when it comes into the council Are you going to talk about it here? Or are you going to shift it off to a committee? That's going to have a more detailed conversation about it and then the other is the rules and regulations or Bylaws I come in those are the three big things that you'll have to really address in the In action so those are the three big things that you have to have standing committees to handle is and Also, are these committees going to initiate action? Are they going to be just processing things that come on to their agenda from this body? So I think that there's a lot of things that you already have a committee looking at the rules and procedures Maybe that committee can look at and think about how you want to the workflow to work for your for your committee Thank you Other comments. Yes, council Ross Paul mentioned appointments Which I think is one of the important ones and especially we'll be seeing later How many vacancies that we have in our citizen committees? And I think that there's a hope among a lot of the council that we can start to make appointments one of the things that I might recommend as we have these two different Committee to town services and appointments and then communications and outreach The town services part councilor Haneke raised sort of the idea about whether that's actually necessary part of the committee Reading through the description the only I see one in five maybe are sort of the town services The review of the town manager and not one of five one and four the review of the town manager Which I don't know if that's part of a standing committee or if that's an ad hoc committee And then number one, which I'm not sure I completely can wrap my head around But the rest are appointments, which would be a really important thing But one of the charges of the charter and one of the things that I think we talked about Many of us talked about over the past several months was trying to Increase representation in our committees and our boards and especially bringing in underrepresented groups Part of that would be through appointment process. And so it it might be Prudent to actually combine those two committees because when we're working on appointments Part of the committee's job would be to actually go through the process developing the process of getting appointments and all of that But would there be some benefit to having those same counselors interacting with say the CPO and marketing those and making sure that not only are we Have a process in which we're we're going through appointments, but also a process in which we are Broadly advertising those and developing a deep and representative pool of appointments Okay Yes, can subscriber So we're allowed to jump all over the place At this point, I'm gonna bring you back into so one of the critical things before us is the master plan So one of the things we have to do charter wise is the master plan review and then ultimate Affirmation or whatever the term is and so I do see that as a critical role of Second possible committee But I would see that almost in them in fact that I might even be called because the master plan in a way covers everything That's underneath there Includes economic development, etc. So maybe so we actually at one point had a master plan implementation committee that was never fully there there was a Committee that was approved that was never fully populated called the master plan implementation Committee, but maybe that would be a name for this is a master plan something committee and Is that more I could still include that could still be all the parts that are underneath it So anytime anyone brings a zoning by-law to us whether it be us or the planning board or Some other committee it has to be Compared to the master plan. So this would be if nothing else a way of screening those but that would give it at least a little bit of Sort of focus charter based focus, which it doesn't currently have Okay Councillor Pam, okay This is something about which I do not know very much except that I've heard that the master plan Was approved by town meeting and then revised and those revisions were not approved. So are we going to? Look at the master plan and see if we agree with the master plan before we apply it I'm not going to try to quote from the charter on this, but I do know that we have to approve the master plan Council Brewer We don't have to do anything right now with master plan. We are eventually Responsible for adopting the master plan town meeting was never Responsible for adopting the master plan They were never given the opportunity and they'd never had the legal authority to do it under state law The planning board does that there was a huge committee that grew out of the planning board and took about 20 years to develop that master plan It needs to be revised That was certainly one of the intentions when the master plan implementation committee was proposed and then sort of started but never actually fully populated it was very long and boring story and the I like the idea of using that as The headline for that second committee if that's a way we can pull that together because it is something We need to keep in our sights as something we will be having to do at some point The master plan exists as it is that it doesn't go away because of the charter It didn't stop being approved because of what our charter says We're still supposed to be comparing things to it And we are still supposed to be revising it every so often and at some point the council is supposed to But the council does not have to do that this month next month or even this year to make that happen So in terms of all the other forums we have to keep track of that's been one of my biggest concerns associated with the communications and outreach and I like this idea of perhaps Combining it with the appointments is we need to come up with a backwards calendar for all these things because there are things all Over the charter that are things we're required to do we're required to have a capital planning forum That's not in the same section as the other forums the finance committee has to have a hearing That's different than a forum and and once we lay all those things out That's why I'm feeling like despite having worked on the master plan myself for many years That that's not as critical a thing that we have to get to in terms of potentially revising it or accepting it But it's something we need to be aware of and the fact that as things do come to us We are supposed to compare them to the master plan exactly as it is whether we change anything about it or not And we would likely not change anything about it without having a huge public process associated with that Which would not mean 20 people in this room It would mean thousands of dollars and thousands of people So I I just want to caution us a little on not jumping into trying to Adopt the master plan when it doesn't need to be done in comparison to a bunch of other things we have to do But it is an interesting way of retaining focus on the master plan to include all the things Which is basically everything that fits under there and call it that and then as we are getting some of the art Legs under us associate with some of the other things we can really start looking at okay What's the timing gonna look like on trying to do the part that we're required to do on the charter? Councilor hannacky Couple things on a couple of different I'm gonna start with the master plan. I'm planning because that's the most recent Counselors right. We don't have to adopt it immediately There's no time frame in the charter for that but there is whatever has been adopted by the planning board is what any Matter that comes to us that Relates in any way to the master plan so it doesn't have to be a zoning by-law change It can be anything that is by-law related has to actually go to the planning board For determination as to whether it's not inconsistent with the master plan as has been currently adopted So at this point that would be the current master plan until we would get to adopting or Attempting to change anything else. So I just wanted to make that clear. I wanted to address counselor Ross's combination idea. I actually like it but I wanted to Make sure that Council is aware that most of the appointments that are coming to us will not be appointments We are making per se that they will be appointments that the town manager has made that we are simply Confirming so most of that committee's work will likely be just confirmation work not Not finding and recruiting candidates for appointments. We as a council are making we will be making appointments to zoning board of Appeals and planning board and that's about it at this point unless we make our own committees that have appointments So those would be the two that we do need to recruit for as extensively as possible but the The community participation officer part of that charge is to do all of that and so a committee of the council that works on that To help the town manager recruit a diverse pool of candidates Would be good, but I just wanted to Clear that it is most of the things that a committee would be doing is just looking at confirming of appointments So, let me try something but before I do that just mention that we've not been a broadcasting in Visually, but we have now received sound back. Is that correct? No Opposite way we're talking heads and there's no sound Mr. Backelman so people can see you they can't hear you The you as obviously you can hear each other in this room the sound is being recorded in the next room where Amherst media is There's something on the Amherst media and where it goes from Amherst media out to the broadcast where the sound is being dropped Re-broadcasts will have the sound because they're recording it in that room, but right now it's not going out the cross we've heard From a number of people who watch this we're Thank you Let me try to summarize a little bit here, okay, this is always dangerous We're going to start with those committees that we need to have because these are functions We need to attend to They are in fact finance a committee that are that receives and approves appointments and The whole issue of our legislative rules and internal rules and governance. Okay Those are kind of like a minimum there is a suggestion that as We look at the issue of increasing and encouraging the broadest Participation of people across the town that we combine the whole idea of appointments particularly committee appointments Okay, with the idea of communication and outreach Okay, and then although we have Periodically dumped the committee we have now brought back the committee on the idea that we use as a Focus for what was presented here as planning an economic development the concept of master plan implementation and that that master plan would be a way to guide How we think about things such as Zoning housing economic development environmental stewardship and sustainability Okay, I'm not going to ask for a vote. I will come back with a revision on this I do want to ask or suggest that we take a 10-minute break we will reconvene at 835 and Go on to item B and C Okay, thank you the next item on our agenda is committee application process and timing and I just want to again note that this is a discussion item To start out. I'm going to ask town manager Backelman to say a few words about this Thank You madam president. So for there are a number of vacancies on town committees and boards Some that are appointed by the council Some that are appointed by the town manager people have asked how do I Apply to be on these positions right now There is a citizen activity forum or we are renaming a community activity forum on the website that you can fill out and submit We're in the process of reviewing that form itself to make it less cumbersome for people to apply to make it easier for people who Who have never participated in town government before to be able to participate and thinking a lot of little things that Might have inhibited people or blocked people from applying in the past. So that's a work in progress We have a new software. We're trying to adjust to that. So it's a work in progress We'll be welcoming your comments on it But we will always have a place online on the boards and committees page that you can click on and you're gonna put Your name in to be serve on a committee one of the frustrations for many people I think was that You if you wanted to serve on it three committees, you didn't know which one you had to apply Want each time individually and we're trying to get a checkbox where you can just say I want these seven committees I want just put my name in for all seven. So there are little tweaks like that I think that we'll try to improve the process and welcome any comments from any of the counselors as we go through this Are there other comments about the This particular item the committee of application process. Yes, Councilor Dumont. I know the charter requires a resident advisory committee to assist the town manager in making appointments so I just wondered and I and I did talk to mr. Backelman about this and The charter doesn't really give any guidance about the process. So I'm wondering If you have any more thoughts about that mr. Backelman or anyone Mr. Backelman, would you please address the question? Thank you madam president through you I Have thoughts, but I'm actually very open I into how many people who do you think would be? Right to serve on such a resident advisory committee it also could be a group that comes out of the Participation officer group in terms of broad I think the purpose of that is to Provide advice to a manager who may not be as familiar with the community as members of the community are So in terms of the number Probably what I would suggest is that we draft up a charge for that committee as well So people know what they're volunteering for and I could we could take a crack at doing that for you Are there other comments particularly about the resident advisory committee? So then we'll look forward to receiving a charge at some in a future meeting Are there other comments particularly about the application process and timing counselor Shane? I think the idea of revising the forum is excellent I've heard when I was canvassing when I was talking to people that the applying for multiple committees was Time-consuming and if they and they didn't always know which committee they they knew what skills they had and they thought I'm willing to serve and just tell me what committee you've got for me that I might fit on and so we could have checkboxes for the more general form and I Northampton has one and I think some others might have it just on how do you make it easy and I I wanted to link it to the notion of a resident's advisory committee or social media I think that Evan was talking about earlier that if we could figure out an easy way to say Here are committees here are some vacancies because I've had at least three people say I have these things Where might I fit and I don't know an easy way to answer them if I knew where to go I would say I think you would fit in one of these three or four places So if even on the web in some way that you could just say where are the vacancies and what are the committees? We've got this great pamphlet From the select board that gives the charges and test but but that's the first time I've seen it all in one place But that would be a lot to ask a citizen to go through So let me just summarize. We're looking for ways to advertise Not only what committees we have but where there are vacancies and how to apply Councillor Hanna key so one of the suggestions I had I'm glad you're renaming the form because You don't have to be a citizen to be on a committee So so I'm pleased to hear that I'm pleased to hear that the form will allow checkboxes. I Have a suggestion that maybe there also be checkboxes for certain Areas of interest instead of actual committees because sometimes the committee is not the name of the committee is not always clear as to what it does as councillor Shane was saying and so you know a general I'm interested in the arts or sustainability or conservation or you know planning or development or you know Transportation names find some big categories that they could also check so that Or even just maybe skills to what skills do you have so that and then you can match that so that it doesn't have to Be as specific as this is the exact committee. I want to be on Any other comments on this particular? Yes, councilor Brewer. I Appreciate the explanation. We've we've heard about the form. I want to make sure it's clear that yes I have some defensive ownership of the old form. So Let's just lay it out there. I Hated the name. I was outvoted on that many years ago I would have changed it to community activity form ten years ago had I been allowed to do that But I was outvoted at the time. I Stopped having that fight the form has gone through many iterations. Obviously it started out on paper It eventually went to the computer. Unfortunately the systems we had available to us then would not allow people to malt to Apply for multiples and yes, I had to tell people yes, you have to fill it out three times Which obviously no one liked There were some questions on there that were hard-fought and thought out as to how we could ask demographic questions That would not be offensive or off-putting Nonetheless, some people found them offensive and off-putting and some of them has unfortunately been dropped from this form based on the Iteration that's happened here. So we will continue to talk about that I think one of the things that's really important for people to keep in mind is who you let make the Decisions about what's on the form and about how you match people up? Because we have not yet had a presentation of our three-part community Participation officer. We've heard that three wonderful staff members who I have great respect for and have worked with in various aspects Are doing that none of them appointed committee members This wasn't their area. We've had this town manager for two years We have huge amounts of committees out there So we have to figure out a good way to thoroughly match people up and to think about the form That isn't just a few people sitting around in a room Which we went through and then at least had to take it back to the slough board at that time So I would encourage us to get our ideas perhaps However, our president suggests to her or to and then she can pass along to the town manager in terms of things We're looking for but for example in terms of demographics. We did ask about languages spoken that remains on this draft of the form We did ask about renting versus owning We thought that was a much better question than asking people if they fell into the fifty to seventy five thousand dollar range of income Like so many things you see out there in the world. So you may come up with an a better way of doing But the reason we did that was not as opposed to one Kermudgen who thought it was because we were keeping renters off It was because we were saying all things being equal Please let's appoint a renter to this particular position So being able to think up things like that and think up those skills boxes I think would be really valuable, but we have to keep in mind Who are we putting that burden onto a figuring that out? And I think we have some excellent potential with that three-part community participation officer Combined with the resident advisory committee that we can feel like we can funnel ideas You know to them as this continues to unfold and find really good ways to do better than we've done in the past But it was a lot of work to get it to the crime of crummy point It was before so it's exciting to see us have new opportunities to do that as we keep in mind Who makes what decision at what point? Yes, I'm sorry councillor Dumont. I Would just like to Suggest that we do have a checkbox for socioeconomic level on the form and What way I'm not sure, but I think that that is Relevant and it's not something that we've looked at before and and whether or not you're a renter or not does not really equate with so here at socioeconomic level Also, could we add the resident advisory committee with a little description of it? To the list because I don't think it's on the list yet That might just be something people would want to sign up for And what was the third thing I forgot I'll think of it later Come back to it later other comments We'll certainly have opportunities to forward other comments as now that we've looked at this for the first time So with that I'd like to move on to the next item on the agenda Which is the packet that was put together by the select board committee. It's a Very comprehensive packet It describes all of our committees It's a committee appointments. It points out where there are Vacancies it gives descriptions for each of the committees and all kinds of information about them whether they exist based on Massachusetts law or whether they are appointed by the town etc. So this is a very comprehensive document. I would suggest that We not jump all over the place, but we ask general questions about this Yes, and excuse me, Councillor Steinberg In the Memorandum there was the cover memorandum from mr. Slaughter There was a little bit of lack of clarity about what it meant when a term showed an expiration date of December 31st of this year and He was trying to explain that it was not meant that that was actually a drop dead date for that appointment So I'm just going to read from the pertinent minutes Really two sentences that will answer the question so that it's fully understood This is from select board meeting of May 7 of this year And the part I'm reading is as follows. Ms. Brewer moved to continue the appointment of committee members with terms expiring on June 30 2018 Until replaced or reappointed by the town council or the members resignation The motion was seconded by mr. Walden. It passed unanimously So the Then in order to fit it into the database Those became listed with that date of December 31st But that is not in fact the expiration date The expiration date falls in the motion that I just read that was passed and by the select board in May So for example if we look at Believe it was zoning, right If we look at zoning which appears At the very end of the list There are two people three people whose terms are listed as ending on 1231 2018 and based on what council Brewer has just read Excuse me council Steinberg has just read those terms in fact and when replaced or Reappointed replaced reappointed or the members resignation. Okay So whenever in this committee list you read 1231 2018 It is whenever they are replaced reappointed or resigned The one exception is DPW fire Correct and That that committee ceases to exist unless it's reappointed as of 1231 90 2018 Right, it's okay I'm off the committee Councilor Hanna key So I have a couple of questions that I'm hoping Potentially either the former select board members that sit on the council or the town manager can answer We talked a little bit about the budget coordinating group and JCPC which have representatives So I'm gonna ask my questions about that, but the memo talked about I think it's The three specific committees that the select board has a designate had a designated seat on Has there been any thought as to What needs done about that is that something the council would have to? Re-designate someone for is that something that that the council doesn't have to do anything about Is that something the town manager? Re-designates a new member for and similar to that select board had representation on a number of sort of Bodies that aren't really town created it looked like some of them are some of them aren't Is that again something that we as a council are going to have to make a decision about whether the town council will have a Representative on or is that something the town manager makes that decision for and then I just wanted an update on The appointments since many of these committees we talked about or that are talked about in this memo are Manager-appointed where are those vacancies standing and are we going to face in the next 30 days a? raft of appointment confirmations To us Let me just ask if there's There's a lot of questions all at once I'd certainly like to ask mr. Backelman to respond to that but I want to make sure that There's no other ways in which people want to ask a question so that we have a coordinated response Yes, council Ross, so just building on that what council Haneke said about Bodies that have a select board member as a voting member I'd also like to hear just a clarification about whether that would diss with that person would continue Which is my understanding from the memo, but also that Do we need to change the charges of those committees since? You know within the housing trust for example, it's specified in the charge that a member of the select board Would sit on that body So in that particular instance, we're talking about both the charge being amended and then also clarifying the Appointment of somebody from the council to those correct Councilman for councilor counselor brewer. I'm gonna get this Well, you decide what you want it to be and then we'll write that in the rule Thank you, then we'll know what to say It has been my assumption and we had sort of this conversation at select board But it's been my assumption that basically the town manager is in charge of all appointments now other than Planning board zoning board of appeals So Anything that has a select board member on it right now We wanted to have some continuity as it says in the memo and that if they came up with a great way to replace those people I think both of the people involved would probably be thrilled But they wanted to make sure they had the continuity and they had enough people for quorum and we'd specifically ask their role And they had good experience in it I think what makes possible sense at this point that I'm sure the town manager would be happy to address is For him to make a proposal as to how to deal with these things as we mentioned on page five no page three all the different things like PVTA, so PVTA has rules. We can't just decide amongst ourselves what we think would be a good idea They have rules as to what kind of body is represented there. Usually it's a mayor Or a select board member. Oops. We don't have either one of those so That I think ends up on the town manager's plate in terms of finding that out and then when it comes to something like UTAC It's a matter of him thinking through based on his experience with what staff he sent what what's Elected committee see sent what he would recommend to us for those things and it's I as I believe others indicated Figuring out on a timely fit fashion, which things like have to happen All those things that are December 31st as mr. Steinberg pointed out don't have to happen As long as those people are willing to stick it out with us a little bit longer Which is great and zoning board of appeals obviously is gonna need attention sooner rather than later simply because they need more members In case anybody needs to go away Because they have more bodies according to the charter, right, but I think that What I had assumed would happen after all of you just enjoyed reading this lengthy memo Was that the town manager would have to come up with a proposal of okay? I'll just change these five things and these other three things I still have to find out what PBTA says in their bylaws as to who were allowed to send and then based on that What he would recommend in terms of who we send Okay, first of all Mr. Bachman would you like to speak to this now or have it as an agenda item in the future or both? Sure, I can talk about it now just everybody's on the same page Yeah, I think the first thing is for the council to get a Process for handling recommendation So if I come in and recommend person a to be on a committee are you just going to vote it? Are you going to delegate it to a committee who would then part process this or not and also you again the same way You have some appointments that you have available to you that you'd want to say How are we going to handle these and I think the committee structure you talked about earlier is the process for doing that Once we know what that committee process is then I can start to recommend names to you And also is it's a collaborative collaborative process because I appoint you confirm So as we move through this process, I want to make sure we're sort of walking down the path together in terms of The select board had a very distinct process over the last two years for appointing people where there's a Comprehensive interview process that included a member from the select board The chair of the committee and the staff liaison to the committee. So it was very in depth and Took a lot of organizing and scheduling to get four people into the room at the same time But but that was a good process in general So it's a process I would like to duplicate in some ways as long as it's manageable Where we are today is that it's kind of status quo the select board had foresight to say the council's not going to get to this in the first month of December, so let's Extend let these people continue to serve in their capacity until we're ready to move to the next phase And so you have some outstanding appointments on the ZBA for instance and as of December 31st on planning board That you will have to say how do we want to engage and one of those tools is to reach out to the community To engage people and it's going to take some time to continue to build that up So I think we we don't have to rush on this because the status quo is okay But we need to get our systems in order and systems in place and start to do the work of all the people that you talked with During your campaigns to say oh you this person said said they were interested in this thing Get them to put their name up through the the activity forum and things like that. So There are some sort of Names that I can put forward to you If you get that memo, I would like to be able to tell the people whose names I'm putting forward what your process is going to be so they know what the process is going forward So I think this won't really happen until January, but there's time for you once you get your systems in place For us to start moving on it. Okay council Schreiber So I'm curious about the incumbents So there are a lot of these folks on holdover appointments that would like to be reappointed. So do they would they Have to fill out this community activity forum or how do we consider incumbents? How will that be handled? Mr. Bachman? So for my appointments, we would call we would reach out to them and see if they wanted to Continue the select board had a policy, which I think they noted in their memo to you about Term limits in essence, which is about six years. It's a question for the council Do you and for your appointments? Do you believe in term limits or not? Is that a value that you want to bring to your appointment process? and for me it's on it's Generally, I believe that that's the case But I also believe that there's a lot of advantages to having people who have had experience to serve on a committee So I reserve the judgment to make that on a case-by-case basis So it sounds to me like we have a Another whole big discussion to have and it would be added to next week's agenda on This committee process And in addition to that it sounds to me like we In addition to going back and looking at the committees that we discussed earlier today. We may actually want to Vote to approve some of those committees next week as well so that we can get an appointments committee particularly going As well as the others that are equally important Okay, are there other yes Councillor Steinberg. Yeah and my recollection was that We amended the appointment Process process for making appointments slightly to say That for some committees based upon the judgment of the appointing authority that it may not be necessary to have a huge compliment of People who are doing the interviews that that's appropriate for some committees, but that there's some committees that are not and my other observation is that Some of the committees where we were hearing as a select board and they're still hearing I'm still hearing little bits and pieces of we've got to fill this position and It either falls because of the cycle in which the committee works that it has a lot of work to do during the next several months coinciding frequently with the budget development process or Because of vacancies which is I think what has been indicated by a couple of committees and the fact that they are Really very close to not being able to have a quorum even with the quorum plus one requirement So it might be helpful to ask the town manager to consult with staff who work with various committees and Get their recommendations and then have him give the recommendations He channeled them through His office so that we get an indication of whether there are committees that Really need quicker attention than others. Okay, and then place those committees on a priority Is there any further comment on the committees counselor counselor counselor Brewer So since we probably only have one more December meeting, I think one of the things that we Will be discussing next week, but I hope but as I understand it I was just hoping to frame it a little more in terms of We don't have any idea how to confirm appointments in terms of that's not been something we've done before It's not something we've seen this body do before And so it worked a little differently when the select board did in fact have to confirm a few of the town managers appointments But we actually did mostly our own appointments and have confirmed a few of his legally So what would that look like for example for select board? What it looked like was he said I want these people and we said okay, and that was the confirmation process Okay, if people are expecting something else from that confirmation process I hope they will think a lot about that before next week as to what that would look like We've also as you saw in the memo. We've done interviews and the various types of interviews like mr. Steinberg and mr. Paco and talked about We did them privately other communities have people come and sit here in public comment and have people pepper them with questions So that's not been the Amherst style But if that's the kind of thing you're thinking about I think it's important that people bring some of those details forward because whoever We put on that council committee to talk about appointments is going to need to hear those ideas and figure out What's going to happen when he actually wants to bring us some appointments in January when that committee won't have had a ton of time to meet and think through What those choices are because we are going to be inventing a system which might be a really simple one But it might be more complex than that. I Hesitate to ask that we discuss that process now since it was not on the agenda But we will need to discuss it and hopefully have something to discuss it with next week as we look at what will be the process for the appointments to be considered Okay, is there and yes, cancer Ross So I just want to make sure we're I'm clear on what's happening It it appears there's sort of three aspects of appointments that we need to consider and have a discussion One is how we handle appointments that we as a council make with regard to planning board ZBA and also committees of the council one is how we deal with the confirmation process of Appointments that are recommended by the town manager and then the third would be What role if any that we have in the interview process for the town manager's appointments? whether we Take on adapt or discard the process that was outlined By the select board with regard to the council. So it seems like there's there's three different conversations That need to take place because there's three different ways that we will interact or potentially interact with appointments Is that correct? I? Appreciate that summary, but I want to add to the fact that we have two different kinds of approvals for From the town manager one is for committees But the other one is for department heads, and it's a very different kind of personnel in that case and the committee on appointments will have to address both and yet both require looking at The process in terms of how public etc Okay, and that is part of what we'll have to bring forward with the discussion about the appointments committee Other further comments on that All right We are moving on to action items, which is number seven and the first is the ad hoc rules and procedures committee and Just note that in your packet today. We did include The ad hoc rules and we included the rules of procedure that we adopted last week We have a committee working on that And I just have to pause for a moment and ask I don't I can't seem to find my copy of the charge to that committee I Think it may be something we will come back to at the end of the agenda of the action items, okay? Yeah Okay, let's move on to the board of license commissioners and In this case This is a charge that the select board Actually approved and we are actually actually actually asking the council to reaffirm So I need a motion and a second that we reaffirm the charge to this license commit to the board of license commissions Do I have a motion to approve? I'll make a motion to approve a second Now we can discuss it Okay, so we are an item 7b board of license commissioners and it is a Charge that was pre that was approved by the select board Let me just add that this is a function now of the town manager it used to be a function of the select board in a very serious and very time-consuming way and This is something that now requires a separate board Are there questions comments discussion Councillor hannacky I Have a question. It's not really about the charge. It's about do we have potential is the town manager? Have there been applicants since this charge was approved a while ago Have there been people applying for it such that when we approve this we might see Appointees soon, and I know the charter requires the appointments to happen. I believe within 60 days of the council Swearing in so we've got a short window. So I was curious where that process is account Mr. Backelman, please. Thank you. We have had some interest. We have not advertised for it We have got the press ready to go for tomorrow morning assuming that there was a more thorough discussion about You were comfortable with the charge and we had a process for having those names come forward I understand the timeframe for appointments the charter does envision some We have not had any license issues that have popped up in the interim since the select board has demised but you know we have I've had one or two people who have expressed interest but with After tonight's meeting, we have a press release ready to go out and additional research outreach to people Are there other questions comments? Yes council in in the past The select board did this is that correct? Yes, and so they didn't require any Particular expertise in the different professions or did they call in people because it sounds very specialized stuff to me Councilor Brewer, would you speak to that? for hours probably but To try to try and be really brief about it What happened was the select board had been let's just talk about alcohol licenses because that's the most brought in the community People don't care nearly as much about second-hand licenses and that sort of thing But alcohol licenses particularly for us. There is a very clear state process that local licensing authorities have to abide by and select boards are always the local licensing authority when you have a select board from a government Cities have separate board of licensed commissioners one of the advantages of having the select board do it is because we were involved in so many different aspects of the community we Partly considered it a safety issue and we partly considered it an economic development issue and One of the things that's interesting about having it be a completely separate body is they don't have any of those Responsibilities, so we were trying to be sensitive to the business community. Are we putting you through a reasonable process? We had excellent staff that would hold people's hands through an incredibly elaborate process through applying for this through the state and But we also wanted to make it clear that we had expectations as a community with undergraduates that Obviously are trying to access alcohol when they're not old enough and mr. Steinberg had a particularly infamous set of questions that people who Should have been prepared to answer given that he had been asking those questions a long time This board of licensed commissioners has no idea how to do any of that because there's been no other board of licensed commissioners in Amherst prior to this So there is no expertise in our community in this area whatsoever What makes it even more complicated and what I've asked the town manager to talk to council town council about and I'm sure he has in One of his thousands of conversations with them is under membership It says no person while a member of the board of licensed commissioners shall have any financial interest directly or Indirectly and where that gets complicated is we have alcohol licenses at the university in both colleges How direct is the interest if you're a bartender at the event then that Maybe is a direct interest or are you the person who actually makes money off the event? And that's the direct interest so that's something I'm sure he's working out with council But it's not been a prior issue Because if we had financial conflict because we had been part owner of a restaurant that came before us Then we would have just as a board of licensed commissioners taken ourselves out of the situation But we were required to do that role by being a virtue of a select board It's a whole different ball game with this and so it's not entirely clear yet who we can recruit from as the pool and Luckily the town manager already has it set up in terms of staff support and we've had excellent staff support on this so far But it isn't like somebody lives here that is just an expert in this area. So it's complicated Are there any other comments on this particular charge questions Etc. Hearing none. I want to call the question. The question is to affirm or re or approve the Board of licensed commissioners charge All those in favor It's unanimous Thank you The next one is the bylaw review committee the bylaw review committee as we met last week we I'm going to ask The town clerk to refresh my memory and give us what we did last week So that we are now moving to approve the charge and I believe that by approving the charge We now move to the appointment of the bylaw review committee our reappointment The council established the bylaw review committee and yes, you are moving on to charge and appointments. Thank you Okay, so we established bylaw review committee I've reminded people in the past that we basically did have a bylaw review committee of three very Dedicated people they have brought forward a lot of information to us We are still in the process of reviewing and approving that so this is a charge I would like I need a motion and a second and then we can discuss It's a motion to approve the charge the bylaw review committee. Do I hear a motion? I have a motion. Do I have a second? Okay, and further discussion Yes, Councillor Haneke No, she had her hand up first The the charge as presented to us does not include a number of voting members So, you know and the staff support for some reasons has not determined whereas in the Charge itself versus the top where the staff support says town attorney. So I think we need to change the staff support in the listing to town attorney and We need to determine a number of voting members and then there was one Clerical era error I saw Which was in the second paragraph that said in accordance with the town charter the purpose of the bylaw review committee shall Review the town bylaws, which didn't make sense to me. It's not a full sentence. So I thought it should be shall be to quote review the town bylaws So, you know, I think last week we didn't set a number because we were going to discuss how many we actually wanted on it And whether we wanted counselors on it. So I think that's a discussion we need to have Okay, I'm gonna make the first two is just friendly amendments amendments. So in the third paragraph under Authority the second full sentence. It should read the review shall be to conduct. Is that the one? I'm sorry. It's the second paragraph under authority that starts in accordance with the town charter after the word Shall on that line we should add be thank you and then color. Thank you So it is the second paragraph The first sentence in accordance with the town charter the purpose of the bylaw review committee shall be to adding the words be to and then colon and the other one is under staff support to Remove not determined and in fact in fact replace that with town attorney But the other question is the number of people on the bylaw review committee and we should now discuss that. Yes And answer Shane and what I want to build on that both The question is how many counselors and do we want to have some people who are not counselors on that committee as well? To this is it's basically a close read of the revisions. We were given compared to the original it's it can Okay, so the question really is is this a committee with counselors is a committee with outside people Is a committee of a combination? Discussion yes counselors Steinberg On the staff support, I would be interested in mr. Bachman's Recommendations on this the staff support for the last committee Was also substantially as it was mr. Kravitz who's the economic development director who is an attorney and quite familiar with the issues and the Amount of work that he did I think was substantially Greater as far as the just the day-to-day Workings and then they consulted the town attorney as appropriate So his his recommendation there might be helpful As to how he thinks it might best be staffed to assist the committee Mr. Rockland Thank You madam president the I have not made a determination as to other what staff town staff support would go to this committee depends somewhat on the Structure of the committee and the kind of work that they intend to take on themselves The Charter calls for the town attorney to provide guidance. So that's why that's in there. It's a specifically Typically what we did with the previous by-law review communities We used internal staff just so we weren't using town our town attorney all the time great But I again it mr. In terms of mr. Kravitz. He did a spectacular job, but That's a conversation I'd want to have with him in terms of what other duties I want him to take on as well Okay Councillor Bill. No My recommendation would be to include the three members of the committee who already Did the initial work because they've already thought through and did a lot of work and to invite them to work with the counselors so we can Acknowledge their work and also maybe move faster because they've already done a lot of the thinking behind it Councillor D'Angelo's My memory is that Bernie Kubey and and Bob Ritchie We're interested in continuing and wanted very much to continue and they were going to speak to Kent So I would I agree that we should have them on the committee if possible if they in fact confirm their willingness yes, yes, and I don't know that we've heard anything further than my conversation with them briefly on Friday So the president went to their by-law review committee meeting on Friday morning and talked to them, but I think that They were stolen in considering considering and mr. I think Mr. Ritchie and mr. Kubey. I were interested mr. Hargraves wanted to know what was the time expectation How long was it this? Additional tasks expected to last and I think that's a question for the council to consider Further question, okay, so really the question is whether two or three of them are willing to continue I Personally feel that if they are willing to continue and we can satisfy their Questions as to time frame we should take advantage of that steep learning curve that they have already gone through So I would say up to three members of the existing committee, but then the real question is do I Should say the previous committee Or is there a council person that do we feel a council person needs to be on this? Councilor D'Angelo's I think we definitely need a council person or two on the committee Is there a preference? Are further comment on that? Councilor and councillor Pam. I I agree that should be council members on the committee. Okay Is there yes councillor Dumont I agree with that too Is there a preference? I'm just gonna come back So right now we've had up to two named. Is that the number you want? councillor panicky so I Two things one is another typo. I found In the quote of membership the town council may retain any members of the prior instead of meeting it should be committee or point new members in terms of committee members, I think My preference would be three residents and maybe one or two council for a total of five So if you know, so you could have three councillors and two residents depending on what the Current by-law review committee members per the charter Want or you could maybe continue with the three residents that the select board had decided for the prior by-law review committee and Put two councillors on odd numbers are always in my mind preferable to even numbers Further comment on this we accept your friendly amendment at this point Yes, council Ross I Would just like to agree with councillor Hanna key on odd numbers, which could be useful for any voting body given the vast experience that the current members of the by-law review committee bring And the possibility that they may continue on it would be my preference that should it be an odd council that the Resident members who have that deep expertise be in the majority of the committee So if it was a five-member committee, my preference would be three residents to councillors Any further comment? Yes, councillor chain These are the by-laws of the town. So I'm assuming When this document comes back to us that we all have to read it and vote and vote You know, so it's so I think it's really important There are two councillors reading it very closely and the couple Just residents have offered to read it closely that even change in the order of paragraphs can sometimes change the meaning So it's just a very close read Okay So let me yes, councillor Brewer if I may when we are ready to Alter this and I actually have a completely different part of this that we're not talking about right now Because it's not number of members But the part that's under membership that this is a nice explanatory piece, but this doesn't belong in the charge This part about that it says we can retain members of the prior committee That doesn't belong in the membership section that that's gone. That's irrelevant after tonight's discussion But the other aspect Writing the number of members is not determined in charter. That's not something you want to have in a document moving forward That's the explanation for how we're trying to get there And so then we can lose that type of because we don't need that sentence anymore But the authority part is important and I appreciate the explanation of the membership I'm just saying as a charge document it no longer needs to you and then on a completely different note the Item that I was concerned about is actually on the other side where it says that the report needs to be done in the year So back then to our membership I would very much like if the three People who are serving now are willing to do that then yes three of them to counselors If however, mr. Hargraves or one of the others does not choose to continue I would not like to replace them with other residents I do not think the learning curve is appropriate at that point And I would fill in numbers with additional counselors at that point rather than recruiting from our resident population Given that this is a one-year time frame, which will go about super fast given all the work that's in front of them Okay, so let me try this on the committee That We have a motion on the floor to approve the charge. However, there have been some changes to the charge couple of them in terms of friendly amendments and Then finally a discussion about membership itself So the charge changes to the charge that were friendly would be after the second paragraph first sentence at the end of it it would read shall be to colon and Under staff support even though we have discussed that it remains not determined because this is an appointment That mr. Backelman will make however under membership The we would strike everything in there and we would designate that the committee would be made up of five members The preference being three from the original committee and to counseling and in the absence of Three of any one of the three not being willing to continue They would be replaced by a council person. I think I need to do that as a motion To amend I'm looking to you mr. Backelman. Yes Well, you can do that as a motion to amend and then we could bring the revisions back to the council so you could review it again next next week if you wanted to okay Or we can vote can we vote on it tonight just voted tonight and we can bring it back as a final form, okay? So the amendment is really about membership Can the town clerk read the motion? Okay, thank you The motion under membership Would be to establish the by-law review committee made up of five members preference being three from the original by-law review committee and Two counselors and if any of the three original committee members declines to serve that They would be replaced with a counselor Do I hear a second? We have a second for the discussion on the amendment To the charge hearing none. I call the question on the amendment All those in favor and then we'll go back to the original I'm sorry I'm sorry the the was unanimous Okay, now we go back to the original charge to end to the original motion to adopt this charge Do I hear any further discussion? All those in oh, I'm sorry councillor brewer. I'm sorry. Thank you I think we should have a separate motion and I meant to check I meant to check on our motion sheet There should be a separate motion for special municipal employee status that takes place after we Approve the charge that's usually it's just done as a two-part thing rather than trying to wedge it all into one motion But we often forget to put that on our motion sheet, and I don't think it's there So I would like to just say that we do that as a secondary issue as opposed to Putting it into this motion. Okay So all those in favor I Post that was unanimous Counselor Brewer, would you please make your motion? I Move to designate the by-law review committee as special municipal employees is it and Is there discussion or councillor Brewer for the purposes of educating the council members? Would you please explain that motion? But you want it to me to do it briefly That's tough But basically what the gist of it is is that if you're not a special municipal employee status Which some of our committees are not and if you aren't then the difficulty is say you're serving on the by-law review committee And it also so happens that you want to represent some a client in Front of the design review board You can't do that unless you have special municipal employee status there may still be conflict of interest problems You still have to sort out with the ethics commission You may still want to make a phone call, but it's simply not okay to represent the town in more than one way And so especially in some employees status is something that is true for many of our committees It's sometimes by mass general law and this would be a particular committee in fact in most cases I think it I personally think it's a generally good idea It's under chapter for all of you who I know want to go home and read this It's under mass general law 268 a and it's a bit again about ethics But it enables people who serve in professional capacities in town to have a little more leeway in town service You're still not going to be able to you know be on one body and then present your clients to that same body But it's if you can separate the two and you have SME status then you are legally allowed to do it Are there questions about them? Thank You councillor Brewer. That was helpful Any further questions on the amendment the maid motion has been made in seconded all those in favor It's unanimous Okay The next item on our agenda is in fact To approve a charge to the ranked choice for a ranked choice voting commission. Do I hear a motion? This councilor hannock II I move to approve the draft committee charge for the ranked choice voting commission with one change in the I guess it's the fourth paragraph the quote that starts a voting method Under authority the word should be shall not shell It's just a misspelling I'm sorry, it should read how a voting method shall Oh, I'm sorry It was amended. I'm sorry. Thank you very much. It was amended in a later version posted earlier today Okay, and so we have a motion on the floor. Do I hear a second? Councillor Ross. Thank you and discussion about this particular charge and while I just want to point out that well Councillor Brewer pointed out earlier that in the previous one We did not need that in this particular case. The Charter was actually quite explicit about the Membership of this committee all this does is establish the committee We then can move after we have appointed the committee To the rec I mean after we have approved the charge we can move to Recruiting and appointing the committee any further discussion all those in favor. Oh, yes. I'm sorry councillor Brewer I am so sorry in the report section I think we are still working out our template for charges We knew the old one needed work and I really appreciate the effort people have been putting into this one The second sentence is not part of reports The second sentence needs to be called something like town council action It's not a report the report is made by the ranked choice voting Commission the Longer point of all of this is that the town council supposed to act and by voting upon the proposed measure So it needs its own heading and I don't care what it's called, but it's not a report it's a separate thing and We we just need to get in the habit of having Committees do one thing and in some cases town council then has to act later And this would be one of those places and I probably should have caught that in the by-law review as well But that looks okay. Thank you I would like to suggest as a friendly amendment that we call the second sentence and pull it out as Approval by town council colon are there questions? Okay So the by-law that you was posted later today or at earlier today Did correct in the second paragraph the second line quoting a voting method shall Yes, councillor Hanna key Thank you for pointing that out councillor Brewer It reminded me when I reread that sentence that the charter actually says the town council shall adopt the proposed measure with or without amendments not shall vote upon and So I would recommend we change the language to whatever the heading you just decided was to the town council shall adopt the proposed measure with or without amendments within 90 days of receipt Okay, so that the new heading for that is adoption by town council The sentence shall read the town council shall adopt with or without amendments within 90 days of receipt Shall adopt the first proposed measure Okay, once again It now reads adopt adoption by town council colon The town council shall adopt the proposed measure with or without amendments within 90 days of receipt Is there further discussion about the charge? Hearing none. I'm gonna call the question All those in favor unanimous okay, and The next is there. I'm sorry. Oh I'm sorry again the motion on special status. I Move to designate the rank choice voting commission as having special municipal employee status I Any questions all those in favor unanimous Okay, we're moving on to the participatory budgeting Commission this is also from the Charter and Actually, we discussed it earlier this evening as we were discussing various committees Are there Is there a motion Council Ross move to approve the participatory budgeting Commission charge as presented second Councilor G. Angelo second Discussion all right. I would just Go back to the report section that I think councillor Burr is also going to mention that we need to pull the second sentence out and title it Action by town council and then the town council shall act by voting upon the proposed measure with her I'm without amendments within 90 days of receipt and the Charter does say on this one by voting upon it does not Indicate that we must adopt. Okay Are there further comments discussions? federal So it is the charge as you were presented the only changes to pull out under the Reports pull out the second sentence into a separate category called Action by town council the sentence will read the town council shall act by voting upon the proposed measure With or without amendments within 90 days of receipt councillor Brewer I'm sorry. I'm confused and I'm sure somebody's gonna help me out here term white So term of appointment is two years with the reports town council by December 1 2020 20 Okay, so All right, it's close enough Would you like to make it December 10th? Okay, any further questions on this? All those in favor unanimous, okay, and Councilor Brewer the next motion I Move to designate the participatory budgeting Commission is having SME special means full employee status Any questions all those in favor? Okay, unanimous We have two other action items one is our meeting schedule and I it has been posted to you. Yes. I'm sorry You had asked about the rules of procedure committee charge Yes copies of for some reason did not get into your packet if you'd like those now or next week Oh, why don't we defer until next week? Okay? All right Um, can we start to meet the four people before we get the charge? Yes. Yeah Yes, I'm looking to you town manager may they meet without the charge. Yes I Yes, you may okay, so we have before us a calendar. I do want to Note that we will be changing October 7th 2019 that is the eve of Yom Kippur and we would not be meeting on that night So we'll be finding another date We'll come back to you with another option in the future Okay Do I hear a motion to accept this calendar? I so move Councillor Shriver's for a moved and seconded Councillor Pam any further discussion? Yes, Councillor Brewer Thank you for checking this against the various celebrations and commemorations calendar the other thing I just wanted to mention and I'm Don't need to fight about it But one of the things that traditionally we did not do in the past is we did not have the select board meet on the night before an election and Because people were often very busy and so and also it was just complicated if some of them were running As is typically the case so in this case, of course, there won't be any councillors running in November of 2019 But there will be school committee members library trustees etc. And people may well be embroiled in those Engaged engaged. That's the word I'm looking for in those campaigns and So you may want to consider trying to find I know that November is hard because of Thanksgiving and sometimes other Religious celebrations, but we may want to consider that as well. Okay. Thank you So with the two dates we will be yes, Councillor Hanna key No, I was gonna summarize. So why don't you go ahead? I was wondering I was looking at the January February and Because the January 21st meeting had to be moved back a week to the 28th. I was Wondering if it would be wise to move the February meeting back one week to February 11th So that you don't have two meetings two weeks in a row and instead you've then because the 18th has already been pushed You actually end up meeting every other week between January and February instead of two weeks in a row And then two weeks off and then a week in a row Okay, so this would be the substitute February 4th with February 11th Councillor Schreiber. I'm not sure how much we want to go into this, but October 28th seems like a good splitting the difference between the Duration I'll disregard the okay I'm I'm gonna suggest the following. We do make the change of February 4th to February 11th And we identify that we will be finding alternative dates for October 7th 2019 and November 4th 2019 Any further discussion? Yes I thought there was a thing about meeting only once in July and August be fine with me Excuse me Councillor D'Angelo's So they're So these are the dates as they stand at some point we may change them and or decide that we are going to not meet Yes, or meet at another time Councillor Steinberg One this is just for history purposes Something that you might be aware of one of our responsibilities as a council is to do the evaluation of the town manager and What the select word normally did was we did that by having summer meetings To focus on that so because that was a time that there was generally less activity Going on But there's a whole process question of How a body of this size is going to actually engage in that process So I think I just wanted to point it out More than suggest anything special about it in relation to it. Ms. Angela said the other thing though that I wanted to point out is is that occasionally there are times for additional meetings and One that was referred to a little bit earlier was the What has been had been dubbed as a four boards meeting, which is probably now Might be a three boards meeting depends on the finance committee is considered a separate body but the purpose was to hear from the finance director in the town manager on financial matters and projections for the coming year and If there's an intent to have that kind of an activity the tradition had been Since it was all there was also the school committee and library trustees to do it in the late afternoon of the Thursday of Veterans Day week and it was not Normal that But we did in one occasion have additional agenda items for the select board, but normally the select board Only met as a group to be a part of that presentation So that is a meeting that could be scheduled in the future and I might also note that We did actually call a meeting for this past Saturday when we had the four towns meeting and we did have a Forum present and so we actually Attended that meeting as a body. So there are other meetings that may be added. I think this is a Framework to start from is how I would like to look at this For the moment, let's just go ahead vote on it as a framework. Obviously, we will be posting meetings and Discussing them as they come up. Do I hear a all those and any other comments? All those in favor Okay, passes unanimously and The next meeting date that we have set is a week from tonight and it is December 17th at 7 p.m. Is there any further comment on that? I don't know that that needs to be an action item Okay, let me just yes, I'm sorry. I Actually would like it if we could revisit the time of the meetings Because at our last meeting we decided that it should be seven And it seems like we should have some kind of a process Whereby we could sort of like get a sense of the group because I I'm kind of assuming if we had voted on it We probably would not have gone to seven o'clock, but I'm maybe not maybe not because we didn't have a sense of the group but I I guess I feel like We should keep it at 6 30 because of the fact that we have such a heavy load of work and You could get more done if we're going to 10 So that is just my opinion Are there other opinions on the issue of timing? Yes, Councillor Payne. Okay, I Stand by suggesting seven o'clock We talk about Trying to get different people running to be on town council and I find seven o'clock much more a family friendly time and For example tonight. We fed the grandchildren dinner and I was glad that I was able to be there for that So, okay Councillor D'Angelo's Thank you, councillor anarchy. I know no, I won't I Would like to go to 6 30. I think that we have a lot to do I also Would like us to vote on it and there was one other thing I wanted to say I can't remember what it is. Oh, we don't we meet every other week approximately normally So I feel like it's it's not like it's so it's two nights out of a month and I think that having that extra half hour could be valuable So, let me Ask for a moat. Yes Chant council anarchy, so I'm just gonna mention two things I actually support seven but I believe last week we did actually vote with a motion for 7 p.m. So I just wanted to mention that It's in my notes. I could be wrong We don't do we We I'm sorry. I'm referring to the town clerk at this point. I cannot confirm that at this time, okay Councilor DeMarne, I'm pretty sure we did vote But I guess my point is that a couple of people said that they wanted seven We have 13 people here. Most people remain silent So that might have and we may run into this at other times where we might want to get a sense of the group on something like that Before bringing the motion mass suggests that we have a vote to reconsider the time that we meet I Making that motion. Do I have a second? Okay, all those in favor to reconsider the time that we that we meet I have a motion on the floor and now I'm sorry. Oh I'm sorry It was okay. It was unanimous. Okay. Thank you. All right, so the floor is open for a motion regarding what time we might meet I'll move That's 6 30 with a hard end time of 10 o'clock. Is there is there a Second to that motion Okay Councilor Ryan Any further conversation? Yes, Councilor Haneke. I Wonder if before we actually vote we could hear from people on Potential other times to other counselors, you know If what I heard from councillor Dumont was that she wants an actual discussion Not potentially a binary choice. So it would be interesting to me to hear from other counselors as to what ideal times they might want Discussion, please counselor I Would be interested in also seeing what would be most inclusive for people to participate and from the public Point of view what makes it easy for people to come and participate in these forums We're not having public comment at this point So could we maybe invite? Town manager or anybody else or people from select for past the select board who have experience about How participation may have varied with the time mr. Backelman is there a preference? Okay, I'm sure I do not mr. Brewer At me council a counselor Brewer counselor Steinberg And the only thing that I would add is that at times we on the select board would ask staff to attend and it was helpful to have meetings be as early as possible so that Staff if they were asked to attend could be put on an earlier part of the agenda when we could and that would Be more courteous to them and to their use use of their time. That was the only additional consideration that I'm aware of Councillor D'Angelo's I Had a conversation with a couple of the employees and they would like us to be earlier And they would like us to be at 6 30 because Otherwise if their shift ends at 10 30 In the winter that's going to be a problem for maintenance and cleaning up and putting chairs and things away. Okay Other comments discussion Councillor Hanna key So I know this is probably something that might fall within the rules committee that has not met yet But and I've heard that it might be preferable for staff But if we're looking at public comment to address councillor ballin Milne's Comment public comment if it continues to be at the very beginning of a meeting might be very hard for individuals with families or kids where you've still got people with pickups and drop-offs and dinner and everything going on right around that time for the public to actually attend the public comment period We watched even at 7 o'clock tonight that a number of public actually came in late And so if we and so that's why I say it might be within the rules committee better to address when public comment Within a meeting should be but I think we have to be very concerned and aware of Where we put public comment in a meeting that starts at 6 30 because if the public comment is at 6 30 I think we might be Potentially Reducing the ability of people to come and comment so that's not speaking against the 6 30 start But more to the issue of when public comment would be Is that correct? Well, it's speaking to the whole because right now public comment has been put at the beginning So if that remains the case until the rules committee makes a recommendation Until that time it would affect that ability. Okay, Councilor Brewer a couple of things associated with that I hope desperately as I've stated to you before that we do not have public comment at the beginning I think it was unfortunate that we had it at the beginning tonight Because we heard about a topic that we were going to be talking about later And we didn't get to frame the topic that way the public got to frame the topic I think it's incredibly important to understand that we have forums. We have emails. We have phone calls We have private meetings with people there is absolutely Nothing other than the fact that the Charter Commission put it in the Charter That would require us to have public comment because that's not normally how committees do business All that input should be obtained another way public comment is for an extremely Limited subset of the population. It's true that we had public comment people show up at 6 30 6 25 No problem if they knew that they were going to do public comment There are also other people who never came at 6 30 I've also been at meetings that were at 7 or 7 30 and people Some people found the way to make it work and some people never come which is why public comment is not the primary way The public should be reaching us because it is always going to be a subset of the population So obviously a very strong feelings about that No matter what time we all decide on whatever split up kind of vote We have on when public comment is going to be The fact is the later we start the later we start our work because resolutions and proclamations I'm uncomfortable with those being early on in the agenda as well. We are we are basically Doing stuff For half an hour before we start doing things and it is difficult to manage our time that way So and many of us obviously have been at work all day caring for children, etc. Etc. So I would strongly consider going to 6 30 and trying it for a while If certainly if there are individual nights that it's are particularly difficult for people I think we could certainly consider flexing by half an hour if that means next week is seven fine But I would seriously like us to consider 6 30 and again without the rules committee having decided to bring it to you yet I'm assuming the 10 o'clock hard stop is very appealing to people Okay Considering we're approaching that 10 o'clock hard stock I'm going to call the question all those in favor of meeting for our next meeting on November 7 excuse me December 17th at 6 30 Please right say bye. Yes No, is this for one meeting only or is this going forward. All right, let me reframe it all those in favor of Yes Counselor yes counselor Schreiber To repeat the motion, please repeat the motion. That's great. We need at 6 30 and hard stop at 10 Okay, the motion has been made and it was seconded all those in favor all those opposed So we have Nine in favor and four opposed Okay So we'll be meeting at 6 30 on November December 17th at the in this room I'm just quickly looking at the rest of the agenda and the only thing in which we actually We're going to have any further conversation is future agenda items and counselor comments I Would like to make sure that we have a conversation about future agenda items, but we can defer it till next week and Also, are there any counselor comments? Yes, Councillor D'Angelo's I can do this aha any other counselor comments counselor Shane I Think we actually talked about future agenda items on trying to get to the finance and JP Next week so just those could be on the agenda that'd be great future agenda items is not necessarily to say by next week It's any time in the future and we keep a running list of those and then see When we can schedule them, okay? Any other comments Counselor Brewer, I don't think it's an agenda item I think it's a task for somebody to perform and it would be great if we had it for next Monday But I'm not really holding my breath and that is a schedule of all the things that are in the charter that we have to do within You know with it this forum has to be 10 days before that thing and that thing has to happen 15 days after that because It it feels a little overwhelming sometimes when you find yet another deadline I totally agree with you and had started such an item and then Got on to something else Thank you. Yes, councillor DeMond another future agenda item, I hope will be a emotion for a Adoption of a climate action plan and a sustainability creation of a sustainability committee Okay, very soon. Okay. Thank you. I Would also suggest that and I want you to consider this for discussion But there are various groups and particularly within the town some tours and Meetings with different town committees that we would like to I would like to see us do as a way of educating us about The town that we are now in charge of governing So I would like to suggest that we work with the town manager with that as a future agenda item Any other conversation any other future agenda items? Okay, any council comments besides I can make this work Do I hear a motion to adjourn second and Let the record show that we only went four minutes over. Thank you All those in favor