 Welcome to the Monday, August 21st, 2023 meeting of the Montpelier Design and Review Committee. We'll let members and staff introduce themselves. Martha Smarski, member. Benjamin Cheney, member. Eric, you want to do yours again? I think you and Martha were talking at the same time. Sorry, yes. Eric Gilbertson, member. Steven Everett, member. Meredith Crandall, staff. Meredith, would you like to review the remote meeting procedures and process? Yes. Can we just one second? I want to close down a couple of extra windows because I have a lot of stuff open right now. Alrighty. I'm going to share my screen. This is mostly for people who are watching this via Orca media so that they know how to get into the meeting. Alrighty. That doesn't want to work right now. Interesting. It's frozen. Give me a second. There we go. It just took a little while. Let's try this again. There we go. Everybody can see that? Yes. Yes. All right. So for those of you viewing tonight's design review committing meeting via the Orca media platform, you can participate in tonight's meeting through either video or telephone access options by logging into Zoom. You can either type this link into your web browser and it should bring the Zoom browser right up and the Zoom platform. And I'll let you into the meeting or you can dial into this phone number and put in this meeting ID. And I'll let you in so you can ask questions and hear everybody talk and see whatever we're sharing on screens. If you have problems accessing the meeting, please email me at mcrandallatmontpillier-vt.org. For those attending via Zoom, turning your video on is optional. Please do keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking. This will reduce background noise. And note that the Zoom chat function should only be used for troubleshooting or logistics questions. If you have a question or comment about an item on the agenda, please raise your hand either physically or by using the raise hand button on your toolbar and wait until you're called on. So far this evening, it looks like we just have applicants or people representing them and our committee members on Zoom. But I will let you know if somebody else comes in. In the event the public is unable to access tonight's meeting, it will need to be continued to a time and place certain because this is the only option for the meeting. There's no in-person. I will now hand the meeting back over to the chair. At this point, do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? So moved. And I'll second it. All in favor of the agenda, speak your names. Derek. Martha. Ben. And Steve. Agenda is approved. Unless anybody has anything else to add at this point, we can go to the first application for 8-20 Langton Street, Lucky Boardman. Review for replacement windows. Lucky, are you there? Hi, this is Bill Morvan standing in for Lucky today. Oh, OK. Good evening. Good evening. And thank you for coming back and describe the application for the windows that is now before us. So Lucky is still looking to replace the windows on the second and third floor of the Langton Street project. We have now specced out a Marvin elevate window with a stone white exterior, a white interior, and a two over one simulated divided light grid pattern. That'll be an insert unit. And it's all tracks or? I'm sorry? The material that it's made of, is it in all tracks? Is it a flash? It is all tracks, fiberglass on the exterior, pine on the interior. Yeah. So it is the wood frame with the clad exterior? Correct. And you said a white exterior? Correct. And Lucky gave me a note that they scraped somewhere and they found white. So they assume that was an original color or got color at some point in time? So I'm just sharing my screen really quickly because I know that Eric at least was having some problems getting into the updated packets. And so this is the details on the windows. There's different sizing, so there's different pictures. But the basics here about the elevate double hung insert and the colors are all right in here. So it's the reason that we have several different options is because of the sizing? Yeah. Is that it? OK. And I actually didn't. You didn't get given all of the details of the different pages. I just went with the first page on the, so you could see the different sizes that they were getting alternate sizes to match the windows that are there on the building right now. Which is why that they came under with five of these and seven of another one, that sort of thing, rather than having 100. Correct, it's not 100 windows, all the same size. It's a variety of windows that really, the size depends on each opening in an old building like that. They can vary even if originally the were the same size window as buildings moved over years. But also a bedroom window, a bathroom window, a kitchen window are all typically different sizes as well. Yeah, yeah. This seems like a significant improvement to me. Yes, the Marvin is an excellent window. That wood frame, clad, altrex is a very nice human. I agree. So what? Nice product. And does anybody here? Bill, you're an employee of Arcade Mods. Yes. Yep, and so, yeah, when we were first talking with Lucky, it sounded as though it was not possible to get a Marvin and was going with some other variety of window, a Farley. But it seems as though you're able to find marvins that can do this job. Correct. When the windows are installed, is there a trim on the outside of the window that will be painted? It looks like the trim. I can't tell if the trim now is a storm window or if the trim is a white or off white color. The existing trim should actually stay in place. This is an insert window being a replacement. So it'll actually go right into that existing opening. The window will be installed from the inside with the interior stops being taken out. And in theory, that's the only thing that should have to be manipulated. Okay. The stops on the right on top of the header. Okay. Does anyone else have any questions regarding the new windows? The picture that you've showed us has a white surrounding around the windows. That's how it will look. That is the frame of the window, correct? Okay. Okay. Any other members have any other questions regarding the new windows? I'm good. Okay. I can go down through the criteria. There's a criteria sheet for all projects, exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing buildings. She'll be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. And for historic structures, the removal of historic materials, they characterize that historic property should be avoided unless in this particular case, the new replacements are of a quality and profile to match the existing character defining features, finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship. They characterize that a historic building shall be preserved. The deteriorated character defining features shall be repaired rather than replaced. Although where the severity of an deterioration requires replacement of a character defining feature, the new feature shall be replaced in time, which they are. There's no treatments that are causing any damage to historic materials. So this is acceptable. The existing building shall be recognized as a physical record of their time, place and use. Any new development shall be differentiated from the old, but shall respect and be compatible with the massing size, scale, architectural features, detailing and overall character of the primary historic building and nearby historic properties acceptable. Proportion, compatibility of relationship between width and height of facades as well as relationship of width to height of windows and doors is acceptable. Rhythm, visual patterns established by the alterations of solid walls and openings in the facade of the building shall create a rhythm. Patterns of solids and openings shall be preserved, which they are, that's acceptable. Architectural features, including but not limited to cornices, windows, shutters, fan lights and tabulator trim and other forms of molding or character defining detailing prevailing on the existing building shall be considered in the alteration of a building. Architectural features on an addition shall not duplicate, but shall respect. That doesn't apply to existing building and the windows are acceptable. And lastly, windows and doors on historic structures, character defining windows and door patterns, placement sizes, proportions and original features, such as trim, sash and molding shall be preserved to the extent possible. When preservation is not possible, such character defining windows and doors must be rehabilitated or replaced in kind, as in this case, windows and doors that are not character defining may be replaced, but each replacement must be compatible with the historic building style, materials and architectural features that's acceptable. All in favor of the application with the Marvin windows, speak your names. Eric. This is Martha, I say yes. Ben. Ben says yes and Steve says yes. So it passes for the nothing in favor. Thank you very much. Bill, please tell Lucky that we really appreciate his coming back with these changes. I will certainly do that. Thanks for listening. We appreciate your time. Thank you very, very much. And also wish him luck with these projects. I will, he's got a lot going on there, that's for sure. Oh, I'm sure. Thank you very much. Thanks, have a great night. Lucky will hear from me via email when the permit's ready, Bill. Okay, great. Thank you much. Thank you. Bye-bye. We can move forward to the next application for 89 Main Street. Doug Netty, Artists Hand Review for a replacement of a new sign. Is someone there? Yeah, this is Martha. I'm going to recuse myself here. I work for the Artists Hand and even though it's probably not strictly a conflict because I don't have any financial interest, I just feel more comfortable recusing. Okay. Is someone there to describe the application? Leslie, I think you might be muted. Leslie's here. She's logged in. She was on earlier and I could hear her talking. Oh, there you go. Can you hear me now? Yes. Okay, good. I'm Leslie Kaler. I'm on the board at Artists Hand. I'm here instead of Lachlan Smith who did the paperwork and application for you for our hoped for sign on the front of city center. I assume you have all the visuals there to look at, as I describe the sign. Is that correct? Can you hear me? Oh, yep. Leslie, we can hear you. I'm just gonna try and get there on the application packet so I can share the screen. Okay. But they also got the packet. So just a minute and I'll pull it up. You can describe the sign. Okay. So the sign is approximately two feet by 22 feet, which is considerably larger than the sign that we have had up on the front of city center for the, since 1991. It's one eighth inch thick dye bond aluminum background with a painted border. It's a half inch thick raised and painted letters. The letters are wooden, I believe. It's bordered with a yellow or gold paint around the black background sign. There, our logo is on the left hand side, something we've used since the seventies as our logo, the hand with the pair in it for Artisan's Hand Craft Gallery. We would like to have four lights above it since it's a much longer sign than the sign we have had up there, which had two lights. Let's see, what else? We have permission from our landlord, Doug Netty, to put a sign up in that space. Wood and Wood has given us an estimate for what the sign will cost. Wood and Wood, I believe, yeah, Wood and Wood will do the installation of the sign. Do you know how large the letters are on the sign? 12 inches. Okay. Yeah. Um, the sign, yeah. So the sign that we're, we also have a sign over on the corner of the building. It faces, you can see it right there, faces Bohemian. It's a very faded sign. It's from the seventies, probably. We're also wondering if we can take our sign that's on the front of the building right now and put it on, put it where this old sign has been for all this time. It's a much better and clearer sign, much more colorful and easy to see than the faded old sign. So that is not really in the application but we're hoping that we can do that as well. Are those two signs of comparable size? The one that we would replace the old one with is slightly smaller than the one that's up there now. Meredith, does the square footage fit to do that? Yes, the square footage works for that. And I'm trying to think if we have a picture in here, I'm gonna stop share for a second. I don't know if we have a picture of what's there now on the front. I mean, we're all kind of familiar with it but I might just pull that up on Google Maps so that you can see what's on the front right now. Yeah. What's the length of the existing sign, do we know? Let's see, sign area. Existing signage, 15 square feet. Yeah, we didn't have the existing sign width on here. I mean, it's significantly smaller. Hold on one second. Well, I mean, it's covered, it's about half the width of what's being proposed because two lights cover it quite easily. So let me do a different screen share. Okay, so there's the existing. Yeah, the letters, as you can see, are much smaller on this one. Yes. And then the proposed would cover, go over the door. The proposed actually, the sign as a whole, it looks like you actually shifted where those two lights are as well because the proposed new sign starts over the door and extends all the way over both of those windows. Yes, that's right. So it's really almost three times the width of what's there now. It covers this whole area where you have the metal insects. Yeah, so both of those windows are ours that we have displays in and then the door. So it covers that whole area. Right now to the right of that old sign are some iron birds and frog forms that those would come down and the sign would go over that whole area. The background is green, the background of the where the sign is, what the sign is placed on is green. That's something that Nettie has used throughout a lot of the trim of the building. Yes. It's on the windows as well. The sign we're looking at over the doors, the one you proposed to move to State Street. Yes, that's right. Do any members have any questions about the sign? No, I'm good with it. I mean, even though the letters are fairly large, that's set back from the street and one of the places you'd be looking at it is quite a ways away. I'm thinking Kitty Corner on State Street. I have no problems with it. Okay. If everybody is okay, well I can read through the criteria sheet for the signs in the district. Number one, size, location, design, color, texture, lighting and material of all exterior signs within the design review overlay district shall be compatible with the buildings and structures of the site and surrounding properties acceptable. Where appropriate, signing shall respect the original sign placement and sign bands on historic structures acceptable here. If a building has multiple tenants there shall be, there shall be consistency in placement and size among all signs acceptable. It is recommended that sign placement be centered over building entries. This one's acceptable. Sign installation shall minimize damage to character defining materials on the building acceptable. Sign design color and typography shall respect historic precedents where appropriate and shall be the appropriate scale for existing and new buildings acceptable. Lighting fixtures for signs mounted on all building facade shall be designed with appropriate housing, shielding and photometrics to ensure that there is appropriate lighting levels and illumination that focuses on the sign panels exclusively acceptable. And then I'll make a note here that the optional change applicant may move the existing sign in the front of the building to replace the one on the side of the building. All in favor of the application, speak your names. Eric, Ben and Steve. So the vote is three in favor. Excellent. Meredith, you wanna describe the next step? Yeah, so I think because the option is in there, it's not like a recommendation of some new condition that you need to comply with. Once we get the form from Steve, we need to do an administrative site plan report to add a little bit more time because we have to factor in all the lighting but we will get that out and the permit as soon as possible. Do you want us to send it out via mail or do you want us to email you when everything's ready to be picked up? You could email me. I think you've got my email, so that'd be easy. Yep, nope, we've been doing that a lot because the mail still isn't very reliable right now. So people want their permits. Awesome. And so is there something else I need to be doing or I'm just waiting for the site plan? No, just wait for that. I think I have everything I need for all of that. So you should feel free to order the additional lights, do what you need to do there but I just have to do the paperwork. Okay, and is it okay to go ahead on getting the sign ordered and start? Okay, great. Thank you so much. Thank you, Eva. Thank you Leslie. Thanks a lot. Thank you very much for coming and good luck with your new sign. They do a very nice job, it should look great. Yeah, I think it'll look really, really awesome and it'll look nice and fresh and it'll help out a lot. So really appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome. We can move to the next application for Taylor Street, City of My Peel Your Applicant, placement of a seasonal banner. Is there someone there to describe the application? Hello everybody, my name is Clayton Clark and I'm the general manager of Green Mountain Transit and I would like to describe the application. Okay. And so we are looking to, from August to December each year to be able to fly a banner that would be hanging between two of the support posts that are at the Mount Peel Your Transit Center. And if I could ask Meredith if you would be willing to open that up. Thank you. And so Green Mountain Transit operates two seasonal services to support sugar bush and stow areas. And so you could see there that's what the banner looks like. It's 12 feet by three feet. And just letting the public know as they go by that we are looking for seasonal employees and it hangs right there between those two posts at the transit center. And so it is a high visibility spot with the traffic that's going by Taylor Street. And I've heard from staff that we've had good response from hanging it there previously. I'm guessing that we probably did not go through the correct process of getting it reviewed if we did that before. And so one of the things that we are looking for here is not just your forgiveness for our past transgressions, but then making this an approval for our future years so that we wouldn't need to go through this process if you thought that that would be acceptable. I think the key thing in looking at that because it's hard to tell scale-wise is that those two posts are 15 feet apart. And so the banner would fit nicely between them with about an 18 inch frame above the banner and on either side. And when we do that, the banner is a little over nine feet on the ground. So where do you ski for free? Ah, so it depends on which mountain you work at. If you work at the Sugarwish Mountain, you get to be there. And if you work at Stowe, you get there. We have a handful of folks that work both mountains and I think they have to pick one. Okay, just curious how that worked. You know, you joke about it, but I think that the reason why we're able to recruit this seasonal workforce is because they're mostly part-time and they're mostly doing it for that freeski pass. And so certainly happy to answer any questions that you may have. And one of the things that I did wanna know is that if we were to change the banner in future years if we would need to do a new permit application. Meredith, would you wanna respond to that? Yeah, I think that the Design Review Committee definitely has the authority to say that as long as the size doesn't change because it's seasonal. I mean, I put this under the sign with the sign form because that's the closest thing this is to. You know, it's not changing the building in any way. But my thought was if the Design Review Committee was good with the dimensions, I would be perfectly fine. And I think there's room in the regs for them to approve alternative designs for the banner as long as the shape and the size stay the same in the placement. Would they need an administrative approval or nothing? No, I wouldn't require anything to be honest. Okay, I just wanted to clarify that. Thank you. Yep, yeah. Thank you. Any committee members have any questions, comments or suggestions? Not for me. Okay. Let it fly. Okay. I'll quickly read through the criteria again for this sign. Size, location, design, color, texture, lighting and material of all exterior signs within the Design Review District shall be compatible with the building. Building the structures of the site and surrounding properties acceptable. Where appropriate signing shall we respect the original sign placement and sign bans when I strict structures. This temporary sign is fine in that location. If a building has multiple tenants, there shall be consistency in placement and sizing, acceptable. Is recommended that sign placement be centered over building entries, acceptable. Sign installation shall minimize damage to character defining materials, acceptable. Sign, design, color and typography shall respect historic precedents where appropriate and shall be the appropriate scale for existing and new buildings, acceptable. Sign support structure shall be compatible with the building architecture and must not be overly complex or dominant in and of themselves, acceptable. All in favor of the banner, speak your names. Here. This is Martha. I say yes. Ben says yes. And Steve says yes. So four in favor. Thank you so much. And before I go, I just want to let you know that GMT had its first Zoom bombing at one of our public meetings last week. So good luck. Thank you. Yeah, that's the first one. I staffed three different public meetings, three different committees. This is the first one we've had since we started doing this. So hopefully we won't keep having them, but you never know. So we have on here that with you as the main contact for the permit. So should we just email or mail that out to you because it'd be going to Burlington? Email or mail, whatever is... Well, there'll be a notice there that has to be posted on the site. So I mean, because the other option is to email and then if there's somebody local who's there that you want to come pick it up so they can post that blue notice card. But on the other hand, if you want to make sure you have the original permit there at headquarters, we can just mail it all out to you. And then you can shift it through. I think that I'll ask John Cherisakis, our operations manager that works out of the Montpel your transit center just to walk down to your office and pick it up. So we'll email you when it's ready. Sounds great. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming and good luck. Thank you. Is everyone had a chance to look at the meeting minutes from August the 7th? Yes. And I make a motion to accept them in the way they're written. Do we hear a second? All in favor of the minutes, speak your names. Martha. Ben. And Steve. Minutes are approved. Does anyone have any other business? I have a question for you all under the other business. Um, we have a lot of businesses who are looking at relocating where they are. Um, and administratively, I already approved one business that shifted from one location within a building pretty much right next door so that the sign was just moving next door. It's on the same building. It's in the same, you know, uh, um, signed and so there was really no, no real change for that one. Um, we do have another, which, which one was that one? Uh, that was Splash. Uh-huh. Um, we have another business that is looking at moving buildings, like totally different buildings still right in the downtown core. Um, and, you know, they contacted us. They, it wasn't soon enough to get on tonight's meeting. Um, and unfortunately they can't be here tonight, but we have, you know, we, there's some others that are talking about moving, like Onion River Outdoors, where I know where this is going to be coming up again about people wanting to use their existing signs and move them to different buildings. And that's where I start to feel like, hmm, we should probably have the design review committee take a look at those, if they're moving to a completely different building because you, you have different building styles and sizes, but I wanted to run that by y'all and just see what you had to say on that. Which building are they moving to? I honestly can't even remember. Um, and I think it was a phone call. Uh, Meredith, was it, was this notion wanting to move across the street? I think that might have been notion wanting to move across the street into, to Splash's old space. That's what I, I've heard that. Yep. So notion, which is on the, um, the corner of the alley, next to Charlie O's wanting to move across the street to the bigger brick building where Splash was. And so I missed you froze up for me. Oh, sorry. So it's the, but Onion River. Yeah. Well, I know Onion River may be moving to city center as a possibility. Um, and then notion, um, is talking about moving where Splash used to be. So notion in the small building that has, um, Charlie O's in it, moving across the street to the big, big, big brick building. So it's, I mean, in both cases, you're having businesses move from one location to another with very different building styles and structures. Um, and so that's, I'm trying to get a sense from you guys where you sort of draw the line of it's something I can approve because it, there's not different architectural features to consider when you're talking about moving it in a location on the same building versus moving from one building to another, even if they're still in the, you know, within a block of where they were. I guess my thought is that we have to make it as easy as we possibly can for those business owners. That was my thought as well. I think, I think that, uh, you know, you know, any sign, uh, we've got downtown is probably going to work in another location. Uh, I don't know where they're planning on going in city center, but, you know, any sign is going to work fine on city center, uh, that you never had. How about if, how about if we say that, I mean, especially if it's being put into a signed band and we're not talking about new, um, support structures or anything like that or putting new poles in a building, if it's being moved from one sign, you know, a building into another where, where it's being moved to has a signed band and it's going in the sign band, that seems like something that can be administratively approved easily. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. If it, I mean, if it, if it somehow comes close to the criteria, I would say administratively approve it with the least amount of extra work. Great. If it's something quirky or they want to do a whole new sign or a different location or, I mean, we'll leave that up to you. Yep. I will, I will take a look at it and those that I can approve administratively will, I'll just make sure to put a caveat in there about it. This being something that's expedited because of, you know, the post flood and being able to move locations. Um, and, and definitely, you know, if they're trying to put in new support structures, I'll send it to you. But if they're just moving it from one location to somewhere else where it's a simple sign band or where another sign was already installed and they're using the same holes, um, that's great. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Meredith, my only concern would be if they start to make, if the existing sign is really, really large, where, where it seems abnormal in the new place, that's my only concern. Yeah. We'll be, I'll be taking a look at that as well and because we have the limits on width of signs based on the width of a building facade. Um, not to mention the total sign allowance for a building. Um, so those are two different size factors that come into play. Um, that'll help with that a lot. And those are things that you can, those are things we review decisions on. Yeah. Right. Those are things we review on every sign all over the city. Great. Thank you. You're welcome. And any other changes to storefronts or anything that have come up as we recover from the flood? Um, not yet. We, I've got some questions about, with, uh, the Northfield Savings Bank because they had some, um, I didn't quite understand they've got a semi drawings and clarification on changing the size of a door. Um, but so far nobody else is really talking about changing their storefronts. I think the, everybody's just trying to get to where they can reopen. Um, and then when we get further down the line and talk about making changes to buildings for flood resiliency, that's when, um, you know, storm gates, things like that will be coming up that the design review committee may need to take a look at because it's going to change the look of a front of a building to be able to install the hardware to be able to have those floodgates. Okay. I think we're going to have to be very accommodating in terms of, uh, improving the flood resistance in downtown. Uh, I suggested using impervious materials, uh, inside. Uh, and Steve, I, I took your, uh, beaver suggestion, uh, Steve was trying to raise money to import beavers. Yeah. Build it, but I, we need, we need, we need a dozen dams between here in the height of the land on route 12 going north towards beyond Worcester. Well, I, I, uh, thought and actually checked out with Jeff Cueto, who's, uh, the idea of, uh, a significant number of small dams close to the headwaters, uh, that could store water temporarily. And I've came out of your beaver because that's what beavers do. So it's a natural solution. It seemed like a really economical way to get a job that have you ever tried to herd beavers and get them to go where you want? Not, but I think, I think, you know, looking at, uh, materials on the storefronts and seeing, uh, uh, I think, you know, getting a group together to look at impervious materials. I, I noticed when they showed the video of the Pavilion building, I think, uh, for example, they were closing, uh, cleaning the steel, uh, metal studs and the wooden, because you want an impervious surface that you can clean it with wood that's too absorbent. So I think looking at some of that, I think, I think that's why the old mustard got old when it's because their, uh, material on the inside was actually roughing that they, metal roughing that they had done. So they're able to take it off, clean it, clean up and put it, just put it back on again, wash it, put it back on again. So I think we should be looking at some, make some suggestions and think about that. Great idea. Meredith, this is, I assume, per, per the Beaver comment, but, you know, seriousness, uh, our dams are outside of our purview as far as, uh, the removal or how they get built. We wouldn't have any comment on that. Right. But I mean, this is sort of a, you know, other business. Um, yeah, I, what I didn't say is encourage all of you to participate in the community meetings that are happening. There's going to be another one tomorrow that goes into breakout sessions, um, for, for subtopics, and keep throwing those ideas out. Um, you know, especially in those forums or by, by emailing people at the city and state levels. Um, because, I mean, it's not just a Montpelier problem. It's a statewide problem, um, but Montpelier definitely is going to have to make some changes over the next, um, years and possibly decades to make sure that we can withstand those kinds of floods, um, more frequently than every hundred years. One of the things, I mean, my interest obviously is historic buildings, but if we don't solve in some way, reduce the flood damage in downtown, we're going to lose the buildings because there's no tenant. I think I sent you a copy of what I sent to the padlock. Padlock? Is that the right thing? I think so. I'm not really involved in it too much, but yes, I think they called it a padlet. Um, and yeah, I think, and you're also, um, you know, it might be worth going and attending city council on Wednesday. I think that, um, Mike Miller is going to be, um, presenting something then. Um, I know that he's going to be coming out with a statement at some point soon, um, about his, his thoughts and vision, you know, short, medium and long-term for planning in the city, um, for having it be a more flood resilient community. Um, you know, this has been, he's, he's been in that kind of multi-stage planning, um, vision for a long time now in his job. Um, and so he's, he's looking at how things could happen, um, in a doable way. Um, so I'd keep your eyes open for that. I think that'll, that'll be helpful. Well good, does anybody else have anything to add at this point, or do I hear a motion to adjourn? I'll make a motion to adjourn. I'll second. All in favor of adjournment, speak your names. Eric. Martha. Ben. And Steve. Meeting is adjourned. Thank you all for coming. Thank you everybody. Thank you for saving us from the hat person. Oh, well I'm sorry it took me so long. I was just like, what, what is going on? Who is it coming from? So yeah, sorry about that. Um, and a reminder that our next meeting is on the Tuesday, Tuesday after Labor Day. Okay. Yes. Thank you. All right. Thank you all. Thank you everybody. Bye. I have one more thing. Steve, you and I's terms expire on the 9th. Of September? Yes. Yeah. I noticed that as I was trying to maneuver my way in. Thank you, Eric. I forgot to write that down after you told me. So yes, I will send you both an email with the links for the applications. So you can get your applications in because I really hope you both are still going to want to be on design review. Otherwise we're in trouble. I think we're okay. Okay. We've survived so far. Okay. Okay. Thank you all. And I'll drop off the forms tomorrow. Awesome. Okay. Nice. Thank you. Yeah. Good night.