 and I want to make sure that we have enough time to hear it. You talked to me after the meeting. All right, so it sounds like you guys had a really good conversation. Probably some of it was around the ecosystem piece, if not most of it, so I'm just curious if anybody has any kind of sparking thoughts that come to mind from your conversation, any key thoughts or comments you want to share about the ecosystem work that you guys just discussed. Anybody want to share? Oh, great, so in here. Thank you. I was hoping to hear more as well about the other elements of our ecosystems, like protecting forests because of the important role that they play in water quality and volume and climate mitigation, carbon sequestration and so on. So I hope that forests and again, I think that's more of a BC issue than probably a US issue in the negotiations, but I hope forest health, which of course affects our communities here so much as well as the fish and everything can be included and also then wondered a lot about if any negotiation is taking place in relation to the possibility of likelihood of oil spills affecting either through trains or pipelines or whatever else comes along affecting our water in the treaty area too. Yeah, thank you so much. Very good points. And whether or not you've written them down here, we're also taking notes up here so that will be communicated to the team. Thank you. You know, we had another hand up here. Well, we were just talking about learning from other people's mistakes. So whether that's fish farming or natural ladder systems or the trucking recently that had to happen to basically leapfrog the salmon up the river. So I wouldn't want to question any of the technical details that are here because it looks like it's pretty well thought out. But I'm sure that they've considered learning from other people as well. Thank you. Any other comments? Yeah, so we were talking about the concept of if it's kind of a zero sum game, balancing ecosystem function and hydropower and flood mitigation. Just for my knowledge of flood control and ecosystem mitigation, they don't necessarily seem to be in sync. So our questions were around, you know, if you can maintain a stable reservoir level, if the to maintain like riparian vegetation and zones, how does that impact the capacity for hydropower? And yeah, essentially, we're kind of curious about how those are actually compatible to be balanced. That's an ultimate question. So Kathy will say something. Then we had a question over here and then a question over there or comment, I should say. Yeah, no, that's a really good question. So nothing is free of you. But when you rebalance, there are other priorities that are going to be affected. No doubt, right? But what we need to do is look at not just today, but in the future. And we know that the energy world is being transformed, not by decades, by year to year. How do you achieve a better balance? Will be more importance for ecosystem, a little less for power generation? Is it seasonal? Is it, you know, it's not one or the other are there opportunities to blend, to optimize for certain periods of the year under certain dry, wet, normal years for certain species and still provide some flood protection. That is all going to be investigated in the modeling that's going to be done on different operating scenarios. Yes. Something that I wondered about was, how does, how do our goals and pillars for ecosystem function stand up to climate modeling? And how integrated are they? Because generally, we're really good at using data from the past to predict the future. But we know that it's not necessarily the out way. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Kathy. Michael mentioned that there's a consultant working with the Indigenous Nations on Ecosystem Function. And that's me part-time. But I'm the same person who's also working with the local governments committee on their recommendations. So I am the same person, same name. It's been an honor to work with both for a while. With regards to ecosystem, to climate change in the Ecosystem Function work, there is a separate study group, including Greg Utsuk, who many of you know, has worked on climate change locally, who are bringing together the relevant information about climate change so that the study teams all have the same foundational information. And they all will consider climate change both in looking at old studies. So they have that in mind, but also as they look forward into the future. So it's front and center top of mind. We were talking about salmon bringing nutrients back from the ocean and how that's going to work with things like the woosh system and if that's been looked at at all with fish ladders and other systems of bringing salmon back in. And I'm looking for Michael, I don't say, there you go. So if I heard that right, that was how is salmon reintroduction going to affect a nutrient replacement. So yeah, there's been, there's a wealth of knowledge out there of the importance of marine derived nutrient salmon, you know, acquiring biomass out in the ocean and bringing the benefits of that in terms of carbon and nutrients up into into natal watersheds and the benefits to the ecosystem. You know, everybody, everybody has a share of that. You know, the eggs are potentially scavenged by bacteria and benthic fish. The fish are harvested by bears and minks and the rotting carcasses are dragged up into the into the into the forest and those sorts of things. So that marine derived nutrient cycle is a key to a healthy ecosystem that's linked directly to the ocean where they have passage. We see the benefits of that as part of the function. I mentioned briefly the nutrient supplementation program that's going on currently in our system that was trying to address some of the nutrient losses from dam creation. But part of this bigger picture is that important role of marine derived nutrients. So we see that as key. So the question is about how the new do salmon bring nutrients from the ocean with them? And if they do, how does it work by pushing them through something like the woosh system? I'm assuming does that nutrients get lost? Is that the question? Yeah, no, it's still part of the animal, right? So yeah, that's it. Yeah, their decompose opposing bodies are our our prize of carbon and nitrogen and phosphorus. So those elements become, you know, decompose broken down and then just start that nutrient cycle altogether. So there's no shedding of nutrients. If that's the question as they're moving. Yeah, I'd be interested in carrying on that conversation. But yeah, it's just very well documented that they're essentially packages of nutrients that do the work to get up, you know, in terms of completing their life cycle, and then all those other benefits once their bodies, they die after spawning, right? So their bodies break down and are taken up through all levels, right? So great question. Great questions, definitely. So I'm also conscious of the time here and I want to make sure that we have enough time to hear from Ingrid because she's got a couple of really great projects to share with you all. So maybe I could ask that if there are any other questions or comments about this, then we can hold them to the end and then either choose to stay a little bit longer or we can have conversations after the meeting wraps up. But what I will urge you to do once again is to write your thoughts down on that feedback form. You can either leave them on the tables and then we'll collect them at the end of the meeting. Or if you want to take them away with you and mull it over some more and get them back to us at a later date, you can email them to us. I think some of the forms have an email address right on them. Otherwise, pick up a card at the side table with our email address on them and then you can send it back to us after the meeting. But thank you so much for your thoughtful questions and conversations here tonight. And thank you again, Michael, for sharing that information. So now I want to introduce my colleague Ingrid Stroh. So Ingrid was with our team back in 2011-2012 and she led the Columbia River Treaty Review public consultation. She's very familiar with the issues around the basin and she went away for a while, did a few things and she came and joined our team again in April of this past year. And we're thrilled to have her here exploring some of the issues that we have heard throughout the basin. So I'm going to pass it over to Ingrid to introduce herself. And here we go. Welcome. Good evening. Thank you so much for hanging in there. So I've been, as Brooke mentioned, I've come back to work with Columbia River Treaty Team in April. And when I came back, there was a lot of issues that communities have raised over the many times that we've done community engagement 2013, 2014 and again in 2018. So I'm going to talk about the ones that I've started so far. They're at various stages of progress and these are the ones that kind of have risen to the top, acknowledging what was lost and the Duncan Dam fish passage. I'll speak most about those. And then if there's any interest in the ones after that and there's still some time, I'll do a quick piece on those. So starting with the Columbia River Treaty Heritage Project. So this isn't the only way to acknowledge what was lost, but it's a first start. It's a first step. We'll see where this goes, see what other thoughts come up because of this project. So just the outline, the next slide, this is how the presentation is going to go. So this project is a means to provide a mechanism to convey the Columbia River Treaty story and how it touches the entire Columbia Basin. And it's a way to highlight and preserve key places and events that are important to people in the basin and provides a visible, tangible recognition of the impacts on Indigenous and non-Indigenous people, communities, land and ecosystems. And in addition, basin residents have told us over the years that they would like youth to be educated on the Columbia River Treaty. And this project provides a mechanism to educate not just youth, but new residents to the area and visitors so that they too can understand the region's history. And also in this time of increasing electrification to reduce greenhouse gases and the call for green energy, this project will also provide the backstory for hydroelectric generation and the impacts that result. And as you know in the basin, there is no free lunch even for green production and somebody or something pays. This project is also going to be a way to link existing treaty-related heritage assets, whether they be museum displays, exhibits, heritage sites and artifacts. And they can all be promoted and integrated into a broader regional story. And because the community's heritage and cultural assets are being promoted and highlighted, this will be attractive to basin residents who will want to see and what else is in the basin. But it will attract visitors and in some small way contribute to business opportunities in the basin. So the next slide is a map. It's a modified version of the one that's on the Columbia River Intertribal Fish Commission. And it highlights the Canadian Indigenous nations that are impacted by the Columbia River Treaty. And as you know, the stories of the impact of the treaty on Indigenous peoples, it's not widely known at all. And the Canadian First Nations impacted are the Tenaha's equipment, Silksau Kanagan nations and the Sinaix peoples. And the Columbia River Treaty dams also impacted Indigenous people or tribes as they're referred to in the U.S. And these include the Kootenai tribe of Idaho, the Confederated Salish and Kootenai tribes of the Flathead Nation and the Confederated tribes of the Calville Reservation through the Arrow Lakes Division and their link to the Sinaix people. And this project is an opportunity to make these stories known as well. So what the project is is a branded heritage touring route linking a series of commemorative or interpretive signage located at key locations related to the Columbia River Treaty. The signage would convey local place-based information of impacts on Columbia Basin Indigenous and non-Indigenous people. And this information would be linked to the overarching regional story of the Columbia River Treaty. The touring route will be supported with promotional materials, social media, mobile app, a website, and a marketing program. And there will be some youth-friendly components. We love hearing suggestions, so if you have any, please write them down. But some that we have heard are to have video vignettes that can be used in classrooms, a geocaching activity, a sort of a passport, which if all the sites are visit, there's a small acknowledgement and an augmented reality app to use with your smartphones where you're at a site and you can look at what it used to look like. Tourism experts have noted that cultural and heritage tourism is the second biggest motivator for travel and that this is particularly true of the Boomer generation. And there are many heritage touring routes in Canada. And in fact, the Columbia Basin region is known for its incredible touring opportunities that feature communities and products. But the focus has mostly been on soft adventure, nature-based activities, arts and culture, and national and provincial parks. However, this Hot Springs and Heritage Circle tour here is an example of a tour route that was developed and promoted by the Kootenai Rockies Tourism Association. And this project will benefit from their tour development and marketing expertise. So what's going to happen is each community will decide on the stories that they want to share and how they want to convey those stories. So some communities may just want a commemorative plaque where there was a homestead, but others may be thinking on terms of a picnic kiosk with signage that tells a bigger story. Or they might want to feature existing infrastructure such as the Waldo Church that got moved to Baines Lake to escape flooding. And what the project would do would put together some community design guidelines so there would be an overall look and branding elements that are consistent, but it would be individual to each community. And this one is the next slide. This is an example of an interpretive signage from California, but it's just a way to show you that there could be a lot of information shared on a single sign. So the project is a multi-year project. There is going to be formed started with a steering committee who's responsible for ensuring the project is developed and that it considers indigenous and non-indigenous people and communities and that it's implemented in a timely manner. So they're not responsible for developing content. They're steering the project. And the current steering committee members include Janice Alpine from the Tanaha Nation, Mark Thomas and Pauline Eugene from the Soquette McNation, Kathy Holland from the Silks Okanagan Nation, Stan Doyle from the Columbia River Treaty Local Governments Committee, Kathy English who is a curator at the Rebels Stoke Museum and a co-creator of the Stories Beneath the Surface exhibit, which is about what was lost in Rebels Stoke when the treaty was implemented. Also on the committee is Wendy Van Pimbrock from the Kootenay Rockies Tourism, Ursula Foller, a senior heritage planner with the province, Bruce White, senior tourism development manager and Jerry Brightwell and Richard Toppizer who are regional economic development managers with the rural development unit of the province. And the steering committee is currently working on developing a detailed strategy, action plan and budget that will be used to apply for funding. Once the project lead is hired they will undertake the outreach to generate the project ideas, gather stories, identify locations, they'll talk with elders and seniors organizations, cultural and heritage, as well as a broader public outreach. And with all this input gathered the project design would commence in year two and where you'd finalize the stories and how you'd want to convey it and then you would begin the project implementation, writing the content, building the signage places, putting up highway signs, developing promotional material. In years two and three it'll start with promoting the touring route to local residents because they're the ones that are going to be most interested in seeing what is there in the rest of the basin and also to you through educational organizations and then there will also then begin marketing and promotion of the touring route to tourist visitors through tourism destination organizations and they'll be assistance provided to communities to promote other attractions that they may have and develop business opportunities like bed and breakfasts or arts and craft sales or farm stands and for years beyond year three they'll be ongoing maintenance and update to freshen the signs and keep the language fresh. So right now we're looking to hire a contractor with experience in developing business plans for heritage projects to develop the materials we need to apply for funding and we hope to have this ready by early 2020 so we can start applying to funding programs in the 2020-21 fiscal year. We'll be applying to federal and provincial programs as well as regional agencies such as Columbia Basin Trust, Southern Interior Development Initiative Trust and BC Hydro. So it's not too late to start conversations in your community around whether or not your community is interested in participating in the project. Not all communities are going to be ready to go. Some may have assets that they are already there and they're ready to get on board or they have somebody in their community that can take the lead in gathering those stories. So what would be useful is if your communities or if you know community or that could have who would be your lead organization or lead person you can contact me with this information because we're putting together a file that will be handed on to the project manager once they're on board. So feel free to contact me. This is my contact information. So I understand that there is an interest in the Dunkin' Dam fish passage. So as you know the Dunkin' Dam was constructed in 1967 in 1968 that Chew Wagon again who is the was one of the first BC Hydro senior Dunkin' Dam operators. Notice that there were bull trout circling around the base of Dunkin' Dam and so he altered the flows to allow fish passage through the lower level gates and discharge tunnel and they gained access to the Umper Dunkin' Reservoir. But to gain access to the discharge tunnel these fish had to first leap one and a half to two meters into this thing called a flip bucket and this is a structured downstream of the local level outlet designed to dissipate the energy of the lower level outlet flow releases. In 1994 a removable weir was constructed to reduce the height that fish could jump had to jump to get into the flip bucket and so bull trout transfers were conducted over the years. It was so there was an annual migration of bull trout from Kootenay Lake into the Upper Dunkin' River from May to mid-September and during that window there was typically about 10 transfers per year through this flip bucket weir structure and over 20 years over 10,000 bull trout were transferred in this way. So the studies under the water use plans demonstrated that the weir increases the ability of smaller bull trout to access the flip bucket. But in 2011 the weir was damaged so the larger bull trout can still make the leap but not the smaller and more juvenile fish so we're not really sure what the impact of this selective passage has on bull trout populations. So in 2015 a project was initiated to upgrade and replace the existing fish weir and a technical working group was formed and included biologists from BC Hydro to Naha Nation, Silk Sokenaga Nation, Sequat Mcnation and DFO but not the province and this working group had technical discussions at one point to include a review of the feasibility of expanding fish passage excuse me to include white fish and kokane. An overview of assessment at that time indicated that there would be limited productivity benefits to fish passage for those species and that it would be technically infeasible to operate a fish way year round. So at the 20 December 2018 meeting of this technical working group there was a decision by BC Hydro to seek a cost estimate on a concrete multi-step weir and then things seemed to stall. So in May and throughout the summer of 2019 the Columbia River Treaty team began making inquiries about the weir and the fish passage discussions and where things had landed and made numerous calls to various levels of BC Hydro and finally on October the 7th BC Hydro reconvened the technical working group for a short meeting and they extended an invitation to the province. So as you know the province is interested in bull trout passage into Kootenai Lake because this is part of their management of the kokane and their kokane enhancement efforts. So during this October 7th meeting BC Hydro provided information on the cost estimates for the concrete multi-step weir and these cost estimates had ridden substantially from their original estimates. So the next steps coming out of that meeting is BC Hydro is going to look at with the technical working group looking at different options for addressing the damaged weir. They're going to look for cost savings over this multi-step concrete weir and they're also going to take a review of user requirements of that passage and respond to information requests by the technical working group that include wanting to look at what those assessments were in the past regarding the feasibility of the other fish species. Now the province has been invited to be part of this group and so we are going to continue to monitor the situation and see where things go after this October meeting. So I think I don't know if we have time for anything else. Well we do have time I guess for a couple of questions and we do have one question at the back there. All I want to just add to that as I saw in the Pennywise today that there's a meeting on that in the Argenta later next week or something about fish passage. Yes that information was conveyed to us. I'm trying Peter is doing oh is she the one doing the Argenta one okay yeah there's I think there's a couple of meetings going on. We got Peter is doing a talk in our Gentile November 20th which is Wednesday from 7 to 9 about the Duncan Dam fish passage and then Eileen is doing a talk at Yashodra ashram on Sunday about salmon reintroduction and that's at 2 p.m. mountain time at the ashram which is on the east shore. Thank you for that. I think we have time so I'm also conscious of the time here and I know it's been a long night and we're almost at 8 30 so do maybe I'll offer one or two more questions if there's burning questions for Ingrid on her projects okay yeah absolutely I'll pull it up of the other projects is that what you're asking okay yep bear with me there you go and maybe I'll I'll give context to obviously or maybe not obviously we heard a lot of other issues as well that aren't on this list as we have conducted our public consultation. These are the interests that Ingrid has started working on maybe there because a lot of your students the the data support might be of interest so so what happened is is this spring BC hydro gathered some aerial imagery of arrow and kinbasket reservoirs from the the draw down zone and and up and they're manipulating the data doing some ortho rectification and aerial triangulation work but then they're going to make the data available to the province and we are hiring a contractor to produce some spatial mapping products like contour lines topography digital elevation models and we're going to be making this information public it's going to be posted on the Selkirk College website and we're also working with Geo's BC so thanks Ingrid all right all right well thank you once again Ingrid for sharing that and honestly yeah definitely and as with anything else if there's anything else you want to talk with her about or feedback to give her feel free to do so after the meeting or send it via email cards on the side of the table so thank you to Ingrid as well as to our other presenters tonight Natalie and Nathan and Kathy Michael and Lynn who's since gone to sleep by now I'm sure and I wanted to thank also the folks kind of behind the scenes real quick here so Anna Kim's been sitting over here taking notes she's responsible for the logistics of all of our our meetings and it's a heck of a lot of work so great thanks to Anna and to Ray and his daughter Jessica for making sure that we can all see and hear things well that's extremely important you don't notice it until it goes poorly so we're very very yeah thank you and and I was also asked to give a quick shout out to Cindy Pierce who spoke earlier and does quite a lot of work for the local government's committee as well as on the ecosystem function work so thank you to Cindy for her work as well so and of course thank you to all of you for sticking it out tonight we really appreciate it we know oh and Kathy has her hand up and hang on you need the microphone lively energy and just sets the right tone and we used to hire people to do this and we found the best person is the best person is the one that's working closest to us so thank you Brooke she's been amazing thank you so much this is what my face turns red so thank you everybody really appreciate you taking in all of this information really encouraged you yet again to get back to us with other questions and to continue to engage in this process the feedback forms we talked about the ecosystem feedback forms there's also a participant evaluation form on your tables please let us know how you felt this meeting went it helps us improve meetings moving forward let it lets us know whether these are even valuable to you um Kathy spoke earlier about really wanting to focus on engaging with younger people the youth if you have ideas for how we can do that outside of these meetings we are really keen to hear them so any and all feedback we welcome um and I think that that would be it if there's leftover food grab some on your way out and thank you once again take good care