 Okay, we're back here live. This is theCUBE. This is SiliconANGLE's program. We go out to the events. Extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconANGLE. I'm here with Courtney Nash, editor at O'Reilly Media. O'Reilly Media is putting on this conference, the Fluent Conference, which is really targeting the developer community, the JavaScript world, jQuery, .NET, Ruby. All the different aspects of how JavaScript and the developer community on the front end, user experience is expanding their horizons, increasing their capabilities, new protocols, new standards. It's really where all the action is and there's a lot of exciting things here happening at Fluent. And again, this is where all the actions for developers we're covering two days. And my next guest here, we're going to talk a little about how that intersects with kind of what powers the developers. And that is ultimately the cloud infrastructure, tools, technologies. What's under the covers, what's under the hood is really what's driving. Courtney Nash is editor of O'Reilly Media, covering the velocity market segment. Not necessarily the conference, they're putting the conference together, but you have to have the 20 mile stair, the wide, deep, kind of the beach head of the marketplace. Welcome to the queue. Thanks, it's nice to be here. So one of the things that the queue we like to do is just kind of lean back and let some ideas flow, but also talk specifics around what's happening in the marketplace. So folks watching can learn a little bit about kind of how things are connecting. The Fluent conference is a developer conference and we had Brady Forrest on yesterday, he's an amazing guy doing some great stuff. And he made a quote, we haven't had an Amazon web services moment yet in his world, which is essentially the Internet of Things, the Maker Faire, but the Amazon impact of the developer community really with the public cloud has been really amazing. And the guys here at the conference and Gals here are really exploiting that capability and doing new things. So that whole generation shift to data centers, to cloud, to new software techniques, virtualization, all this stuff is the meat and the potatoes, the technology under the hood that's powering here the development of Fluent. So you got to look at that. So what's your take on the intersection of Fluent? Connect Fluent and the Velocity Conference, which is coming up on, by the way, to plug with you guys on, and Santa Clara June 18th, 20th. That's right. So the Velocity Conference is about speed and power on the web. And this came out of a need, Steve Sowers is one of the co-chairs for the Velocity Conference, took a look at the landscape of the web at some point and said, how do we make this thing faster? And the influx of mobile devices and all kinds of devices, people's expectations for how quickly things should happen online or on your device or on your tablet are continually going up. And so the speed of what people are delivering online needs to match those expectations. And there's real revenue involved in this. And I think that's where the interesting piece of Fluent and Velocity coming together, you can talk about tools, you can talk about libraries. If your site is slow, you're gonna lose money. But Bing and Google actually got together and did a study where they intentionally slowed the web down. I don't know if anybody noticed this when it happened. And they found that a two second delay or a two second slowdown in search results had something like a 4.3% revenue per user impact. And the Obama campaign is a great example of this. They geared for speed. They designed out of the gate for speed. And they had a 60% faster site and that was something like 14% increase in donations for the campaign. So speed is money. And that's really where I think that Fluent and the developer world connects with some serious fiscal reality. And what I like about the program and your job is that it's not just cloud. It's not just mobile. It's not just social. It's a system. It's a holistic the future world we live in. It's operating environment. You called users and software developers. So talk about the speed thing because what does that mean? I'll say one trend that we've all been covering is DevOps. DevOps has evolved very fast. Now that's actually being kicked around in mainstream marketplace and the enterprises and kind of no one really knows what it means but you have a developer and operations which is classic. You have the cloud guys. You have private cloud. How does a person out there understand the velocity marketplace that you were mentioning? Is it one thing? Is it holistic? What's your take on that? I think of the velocity marketplace as one thing but I think the reality is it's still a fairly fragmented marketplace. If you go to the velocity conference you talk to people who are talking about DevOps which is really about breaking down silos that people work in today. That all makes sense to me. That's all one world there and people are all trying to deliver an experience that works well for people but the reality is there's still a lot of silos out there and I've always thought of the DevOps side as almost being more about the stronger aspect of velocity so we talk about faster and stronger with velocity too. So it's not just speed but you have to have a base on which you can go fast. You can't put your hoopty on the freeway and go 90 miles an hour. The thing's gonna fall apart. The wheels are gonna come off. You're gonna have problems. So the strength is the foundation of the speed and the DevOps piece is really about people. It's a cultural phenomenon. It's people looking at saying why isn't our organization working well? Why is it taking us six weeks or two months or years to roll out features and looking at the people that are actually the part of that technology organization and when you can smooth that stuff out you can make your operational environment faster. You can make your website faster, your mobile web faster. So that's what I see the DevOps piece being but it's kind of a buzzword now I'd say almost. People don't all know really what it means. And I saw your eyes rolled when I said this. I don't mean to roll, I love. No, no, it's just one aspect of a bigger picture. It's one pillar. I'm a DevOps enthusiast and people will say no doubt there but it is a piece of that velocity culture and that velocity world that people are just starting to get their arms in. You know what's interesting, what I love about the O'Reilly conference is that there's a lot of intersections between multiple what I call pure play market segments. So strata straddles a bunch of different markets. Velocity, you're talking DevOps, which is strength. You have this virtualization, you have cloud, you have mobile, all these things strength and agility and speed kind of make a big deal. So I got to ask you about a couple of key trends that are emerging, I'm not necessarily sure they're pure play segments but obviously I wrote a post yesterday on Forbes that we post to and talk about NetApp and Silicon Valley and they're really transforming around software-defined storage which is a buzzword that's popped out because when Nasir got bought by VMware for a billion dollars they only had 50 million dollars of venture from Andreessen Horowitz. Everyone took notice, this software-defined networking trend has taken hold. So now it's software-defined networking, software-defined storage, software-defined data center. Everything is code. Everything is code. Infrastructure is code is a term that we've been kicking around on orchestration. There's a lot of serious stuff going on around this area but software's the key to it. And so how do you look at that? I mean, because you have to kind of vet, I mean is that infrastructure, it's a hardware box from Cisco, Juniper, whoever but where's the software? Do you look at the software piece and how would you share your perspective on the software-defined movement or? I don't know if I look at it in that way that you're thinking about and what I actually think is more interesting about the velocity world is that velocity is starting to look at and has organizations that are looking at the boundaries of humans and software. So when you said everything is software, I nodded and then I thought, well actually I don't agree with that entirely because the singularity is not approaching as John Allswell likes to say. Everything will not all be software and there are these intersections of people and software and you can't ignore those at your peril I guess. You can't automate everything, software is not going to solve all of your problems. There's process issues, right? I mean, we were on the cube at Strada, Dave Vellante, my co-host is not here, said people focus on the container not inside the process. So again, there's people dynamics. It's not just human, it's also organizational. Yeah, absolutely. Are you finding that? That's a very strong theme that comes out of velocity. I think we've heard some of it here at Fluent, we've heard some of the key notes people have been talking about those things, you can't, you don't get work done without other people and what I really like about the conference in particular as a view into this world and this market is, unlike other conferences, even other O'Reilly conferences, velocity has a history of sharing our mistakes, you know, of sort of showing the warts off of using failure as a learning tool and so I like to joke that failure actually is an option, even though that's sort of our tagline for velocity is that failure is not an option. Yeah, yeah. So people are building failure into their software now, right? So Netflix has the Simeon army or like Chaos Monkey, they intentionally take their systems down in production and as a developer, you have to try to develop towards that, right? Yeah, absolutely. When I look at software, I can't not look at the people side of it. So web velocity is a conference, it's going to be in June, their web performance and operations conference, that's what the tagline is and are the focuses and the tagline is building a fast, stronger web. So we checked the box, we promote the velocity conference. Let's step back and talk about kind of the marketplace. You're out there as an editor, you're talking a lot of stakeholders, partners, customers, end users, developers, programmers, et cetera. What are the biggest challenges and opportunities that are facing folks as they look at the landscape of what velocity looks into? What do you see as the biggest challenges and yet the opportunities? Well, I think what's interesting is that the web is only marginally getting faster, right? So I think everyone would agree it should get faster, we need to respond to what customers and users want, but the reality is the people who've been driving the increases in speed on the web in a lot of ways have been the browser and the ISP folks, right? So browsers are doing a lot of, browser manufacturers are doing a lot to make browsers faster and you see all the commercials now about faster is better, right? On the ISP side too, right? So all of the cellular providers are doing a lot. But at the developer level, things aren't really getting faster. And I found that was really fascinating. Steve Souters just put out a big summit about this or a big summary about this. And there's a lot still that developers can be doing to make their sites faster. They have a lot of control that they're not taking advantage of yet. And so, and I think video is going to be a big piece of that that we're seeing, right? So you're looking at page weight over, year over year, like our website's getting bigger. Are they getting smaller? They're getting bigger. We're at developers to add if so much you can do a JavaScript round, right? So much flexibility, so much customization. But our page weights are getting bigger. And it's not monolithic anymore, it's decentralized, right? So you got social media, social network. You got the party stuff that's coming in, right? Yeah. I mean, I think the social media thing's interesting with Hadoop we saw at Strata is that, yeah, you collect data. How do you put that stuff back in? You're only taxing the infrastructure. And we were just talking to some folks at EMC at EMC where all of them are like, the guy who runs the big drives, the ones that is quote being killed by the open source, their business is up, people are still buying more storage, right? So the roads are getting clogged, more and more clogs, you know? So that's a big issue. So what do people do about it? I mean, the enterprises in the area we also cover. And they're kind of still in the old days. I mean, they're modernizing and it's clearly a mandate. You guys are just seeing that, we're seeing that modernizing this modern era of infrastructure. I mean, where do you tweak it? You got like an airplane at 3,000, 3,000 to 5,000 feet. How do you change the engine out? It is, it is. And I think enterprise is an area for velocity that has a lot of challenges, but a lot of opportunity. Bill Scott's keynote this morning at Fluent, I thought was really spoke to this phenomenon really well. And I'm going to come back, I'm going to pound this drum again, but you can't change the technology in an organization without changing the culture, without changing the people. But I think if a larger enterprise can figure out what those business metrics are, what their users need, and they can start tying that back to what they need out of the technology, eventually we can start switching up. And there is hope for change in enterprise with this kind of stuff. I really believe there is. We're here at Courtney Nash's editor at O'Reilly Media talking about the velocity landscape with the conference coming up. But it's the landscape of the world. And it's the flat world, as we say, and certainly the tech business is going to be more software driven, whether it's a thermostat from Nest, or something cool that Brady Forrest invest in. We had a guest on earlier today talking about here at Fluent, about JavaScript, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, the stuff we're talking about. I want to tie it to a question for you in Velocity's world. And the comment was two comments. One was the theme of Fluent is the web, the web, the web. Most people think, oh, web and mobile, different methodologies maybe. And Agile, you have different app stores, different distribution, different business models. At the end of the day, it's still the web. In fact, Jeff Frick and I were discussing and debating Agile methodology in mobile versus web. People on Twitter are talking about responsive design and so on and so forth. So that was kind of a cool check. I think we all agree it's the web. Then the other comment he made was the biggest concern of uncharted territory is performance on mobile. So I got to ask you, with Velocity, how do you see that agenda coming into that landscape? Mobile is becoming a much bigger deal for Velocity than it was a year or two. There is an actual mobile track at the conference now. And just from a larger marketplace landscape, people are really starting to pay attention to us. There's fundamental things. Like you said, mobile is the web, web is mobile. There are fundamental things that you should be doing across both of those, but there are obviously significant challenges in mobile. It's pretty inefficient right now. I'm wondering, it's exploding in growth. So you have growing pains, right? Right, yeah. One, there's things that are harder for you to control. Latency, ultimately, Elia Grigoric gave a really great talk, a workshop earlier at Fluent here. You can't control the speed of light. You run up against certain barriers. Physics. Physics are sort of difficult to define that front. But there are things that people can be doing to optimize for mobile. I mean, you mentioned responsive design. And that's definitely going to be a big focus for the conference and also just for us in terms of publishing. And then on the big data side, there's some big data angle where you can look at it and saying with Flash, Fusion IO or violin, these companies are building kind of great caching layers for open source software. I think that's cool. Virtualization is kind of changing, morphing. It provides us being commoditized, seeing a lot more different software things. So a lot of cool things happening. But I want to ask you kind of as the parting question is just your thoughts on what's uncharted in the velocity area. What are you seeing as an editor? You have to kind of keep an eye on things. The normal areas. I gotta watch that community. I gotta watch that community. So outside of the known areas on the radar, what are you watching personally that you've got your eye on that's not yet baked out or revealed itself that you think is going to be a trigger? Well, I mentioned the topic of failure. And I think that's tied to a certain degree to this idea of risk. And a lot of interesting people in academia are starting to look at risk and risk models and how do you model risk? And I think there's some really interesting stuff coming down the pike if you take more academic and theoretical models of risk and start applying them to your systems, to your front end systems, to your people systems, to your operational systems. And to a certain degree embracing risk and having a different model of resilience of what your site should do. So instead of having these bulletproof, bombproof kind of sites, how do you have sites that can flex with sort of chaos and things that you simply cannot plan for? There's a lot of interesting things happening there. And I would say that that's a couple of years out for people to start figuring out what's going on there. The adaptive learning machine, learning software. Yeah, well, it's sort of, you know, yeah, websites and entire systems that are not so fragile and that are more resilient. There's, that's a model of thinking that I think is only starting, it's on the fringe still for people who are just right now trying to figure out how do they optimize the JavaScript? Very, very relevant focus. Love it, love the, just in summary, fast and speed is the velocity, being strong. But what you just talked about was systems, people, organizations and technology and doing new things, holistically. Check out the velocity conference with the Riley Media, a lot of great stuff. Again, it's the intersections, the confluence of many things coming together. This is what our world is like now. I mean, it's not one, it's not a one-trick pony for off-the-shelf software, general purpose computing. All this is kind of converging in. It's exciting time and we'll keep on covering it here to Riley Media and theCUBE. We'll be right back. The next guest, Courtney, thank you for coming on theCUBE. Stay tuned, keep watching. We'll hear all for the rest of the day live on theCUBE, we'll be right back.