 She's Zoe brings bacon. When has she Zoe actually brought bacon to you Patrick? Well, it doesn't matter if she brings it to me or not Maybe she brings bacon to her friends or to random people in the street. So you're worried that poodle puncher Punches poodle sometimes. Yes, or in the spirit of Facebook's conundrums in moderating their platform That he encourages poodle punching by virtue of his screen name He advocates for violence against animals. I don't think a username is Intent although an emoji apparently expresses intent according to an Israeli court So what are you gonna do? But I mean I can understand what Patrick's saying. You could also be in poor taste It's a poor taste. Do you think it is? Are you guys like are you cracking down right now on one of our best listeners? I'm just asking questions Tom. I'm sorry. You don't like the questions. Don't shoot the questioner I'm just trying to stick up from a poodle puncher. That's all I Don't think I don't think you have to be so literal about it. Maybe he wanted Something else in those taken. I don't know. Yeah, maybe he wanted to maybe he means that he brings punch to poodles Well, enjoy it because it's a delicious beverage Or the worded then maybe he wanted kitten hugger and it was taken and yeah, yeah Well, isn't isn't a cow puncher cowboy like slaying so maybe right puncher Maybe he just brands his poodles. You can keep them straight and know which ones are his Makes sense all of these are fine arguments Really worried about that. I mean grew I'm not afraid of being eaten by Yeah, but the grew is a fictitious creature that was slotted by the programmers. So as a poodle puncher What's it grew? Cuz it really is a bird not much. What's grew with you? It's from Zork. Yeah When you go into the wrong so it's Zork the tax adventure game the programmers put in a thing So people wouldn't just wander aimlessly around and eventually uncover all the secrets by Trown air so they created the grew which was something that would Automatically kill you if you didn't have light or weren't in a well lit part of the the cave And French players were often less scared because they're like it's just a bird You don't know what it is. They never really I mean they sort of described it in Beyond Zork But not not really they describe a baby you have been eaten by a pigeon. I know my marines my remains might be eaten by a pigeon crazy birds by a specific pigeon or perhaps It's the pitch. It's the one pigeon. You don't see that gets you It's always the pigeon. You don't see the stalking you for years And telling you you know what they say I'll get you one day Chang. Oh my god. It's 1129. I know Here we go Daily Tech news show is powered by you. No, I'm actually talking about you if you want to find out more about that head to daily tech news show comm slash support This is the daily tech news for Tuesday, May 23rd 2017 I'm Tom Merritt talking in all periods today with Patrick Beja. How are you? I'm good I it feels like some kind of a coach telling me to do push-ups or something Beja we're gonna get out there. We're gonna talk about startups in Europe We're gonna compare them to the startup scene in Silicon Valley, and you're gonna do great now get out there and make me proud I'll try sir I'm gonna do that before every show now It really gets us all pumped up Now we are gonna talk about the startup scene in Europe there There's an interesting world economic forum piece about it that we'll be we'll be talking about and of course Patrick being in Europe We're not putting him up as the expert of all things European startup But you're on the ground you can give us some local impressions there I think I think that makes me an expert living in in Europe in the general, you know region of the world makes me Able to speak knowingly about so send in your questions about anything that exists in France or Finland and Patrick will answer all of them Let's start with a view tech things you should know Nokia and Apple have signed patent peace Patent license agreement will end their legal disputes not Qualcomm Apple still got big problems of Qualcomm And so in fact some people think that's why they made the peace with Nokia as part of the deal Nokia will get cash payments and provide network products and service to Apple and Apple will carry Nokia's digital health products in its stores Users can now search Instagram stories by location or hashtag and even see a story composed of posts that match the search term Location stories from nearby places will also now show up in the explore tab and snapchat was like we've got machine learning We've got vision. You can't match us yet Instagram Symantec said Monday it believes it is highly likely that a hacking group referred to as Lazarus is responsible for the WannaCry ransomware Same internet connection was used to install early versions of WannaCry That was also used in the attack on Sony Pictures Entertainment in 2014, which is believed to have been conducted by Lazarus Which is linked to North Korea, right? They believe Lazarus may Have some connection to the North Korean government that none of this. This is all speculation though. None of this Yeah, there's a lot of maze and Seems like yeah, it is the month of May. That's why we're doing this Twitter introduced direct message cards an ad that shows up in people's timelines if clicked it starts a conversation by direct message So it's a way to get bots into Twitter. All right Yes, you know, I don't know if I'm if this is annoying or clever I can't decide annoying or clever you be the judge feedback a day the tech news show calm All right. Here's some more top stories Microsoft announced the new Surface Pro At an event in Shanghai They didn't forget to say surface Pro 5. It's just surface Pro. That's the name They have got Cabby Lake chips in most of the models That's power efficient enough for Microsoft to claim 13.5 hours of battery life Otherwise the hardware is pretty similar to the surface Pro 4 and right down to the fact that it does not have USB C ports Although there's talk about a dongle coming for that because we love dongles Aversion of the surface Pro with LTE built-in is promised to come eventually it will not be there at launch the surface pen Now has 4096 levels of sensitivity. That's up from 1024 It includes tilt sensitivity and a lot of people are saying it has less lag It must be bought separately for $99 There are also cloth covered surface Pro type covers in platinum burgundy and cobalt blue They run for $159 and one in black that is not cloth. That's only a hundred twenty nine dollars pre-order start today for $800 for the base model shipping in 26 countries June 15th And at the same event Microsoft announced a new version of Windows 10 customized for government use in China It uses China's own encryption scheme and a joint venture will manage the system updates for it It will those will not be provided by Microsoft, which is normally what happens with Windows. You get your updates from Microsoft So this is just for government use. It's not for right regular consumer use in China No, it's only being sold to the Chinese government and nobody else gets to buy it interesting The the surface Pro is you know, it was looking Interesting when it first came out a few years ago and it's been improved significantly with every new iteration and honestly This one's looks really sexy. It looks very good and it is it's become Very decently powerful. It's a it's a very nice machine now I think it already was nice, but it's more nicer I would say I've always liked Microsoft's take on the tablet two-in-one Since the first surface even that Windows RT weird one the form factor was really good And they've gotten better over time my problem with it is never Microsoft's take on it My problem is that that particular Two-in-one form factor. I just I just can't work on it I either either just want to use a tablet in which case I don't need that keyboard cover Or I want a full-on laptop. I've got an iPad Pro. I never use the keyboard on it. I just never do Hmm. It's I think if you want a very portable machine that is almost a Tablet, but which is a full version of Windows This is this looks like the best version there is. Yeah, no, I agree. It's it's a really nice one. I do I Think it's still early for USB-C. I get what Microsoft saying. They're like USB-C isn't ready Then we don't have anything against USB-C. We just don't think it's there's enough accessories for it yet I think it's I think it's weird that they're putting that proprietary connector for power on the on the surface instead of replacing that with USB-C because the dongle they're talking about would plug into that weird Connector and provide connectivity you can do power or other things which that that connector can be used for display purposes and docks Anyway, so Microsoft is saying the world is ready for a proprietary connector that only we make and no one else makes accessories for But they're not ready for USB-C Like give me both why not give me both? Well, I think there are two things here first if you do put a USB-C Port in there. It sort of brings expectations and another set of questions like why do you put just one and also have some USB? a it's kind of weird and backwards and I understand that and the other part is You know, I think this is a relatively as good as it is and it tilts a little bit more on the hinge And all of these things are really great But it's still a relatively minor update of the existing form factor. So Probably putting USB-C On the the device would have meant a little bit more engineering. So Drew Nielsen asked What about the surface book would that solve your problems Tom? And I would say yes That's why I have a surface book and I love it and I never use it as a tablet almost every so there you go Google's AlphaGo defeated the world's number one go player KGA I hope that's how you pronounce that in the first of three game matches AlphaGo won by half a point their many matches are scheduled for May 25th and May 28th AlphaGo will also participate in two stipulation matches on May 27 One acting as a teammate for two competing human players and another where AlphaGo takes on five Chinese pros at once Yeah The second part took me a little while to wrap my head around AlphaGo because it's a computer can be on both teams playing each other And that's a that's not a problem. It won't cheat with itself So that's what the one where there's two there's two human competitors and each one of them has a version of AlphaGo as their teammate Which is interesting and then the taking on five at once. Let's just showing off What do you what do you think laying odds? Will the AI win the next game and then basically take the match? or or can Kay Rally and win these last two You know, it almost doesn't matter if it doesn't win this time it will within a few months or a year and All of these were really interesting when they first started getting Devices that could win a chess and then when it first started to win it go because that was the the bigger You know more difficult game to win at and at some point There's gonna be other types of games. We're starting to talk about computer games and Starcraft was announced as a platform for DeepMind To start playing with yeah It the thing is especially in those games where the computer can see all of the Possible iterations. It's gonna win. You know now we know there isn't like some kind of weird human intuition that Allows humans to do the thing better. Yes, maybe in some instances. There is going to be a human that sees a path or Gets and I I see you pining to contradict me. I As I understand it AlphaGo does not play go by imagining all possible Scenarios that there are too many of them. That is the key advance here is that with chess Yeah, the computer just knows all the scenarios and then can play chess go is so complex that it actually just has to learn Strategies, that's why you're used. That's why you need more sophisticated machine learning for it to work potato potato potato, right? I say What I mean is the computer is gonna imagine Everything that it can and that's more than we can and the the scenarios It's imagining go by machine learning and looking at many many different potential Ways it plays out So I think the bigger question is We shouldn't be surprised or it shouldn't even be maybe I'm a little bit ahead of the curve here And it is important that these steps be taken stock of but It we shouldn't even be surprised that they're gonna win at these They are going to and that's not to me. It's not No, man, I think maybe your soul is a little dead inside like come on This is it's easy to say well We knew machine learning would get to this point, but it but there's a difference for me with like but it did Right, it's now there is not a human on earth that can stand against this and go Which means it's not just mapping out. It's not a mechanical thing like it had to learn it had to do some Reasoning it had to learn from experience and that's applicable across a lot of different problems So it's it's a milestone. I think it's impressive Yeah, well it obviously is but I think it's been impressive for a while and there are other meant very impressive things that are happening with You know deep learning and machine learning. This is almost, you know, it's not like two years away The go news but it's it kind of is it's yesterday's news It's a very you're saying that when when Alpha go one its first go matches That was the impressive part for you and the fact that it's beating the number one player Shouldn't be a surprise because you knew it was not far off for it to right I mean if it beat the number three player number five player It's not surprising that it will beat now or in but it's different than actually doing it, right? If I beat the number five player, I couldn't say I don't need to play the number one player I'm obviously good enough. I guess what I was trying to say is at some point that it's gonna win and that's not Surprising yeah, but but the proof is in the pudding and now we have pudding With a proof in it the Chaos Computer Club were able to unlock a Samsung Galaxy S8 Using a picture of the user's iris An image of a user's iris can be obtained from a high-resolution picture or taken from up to five meters away Using a 200 millimeter lens in night shot mode or with the infrared filter displayed But because the Samsung iris scanner uses infrared you need an infrared photo the club Printed a picture of a high-quality photo of an iris on a high-quality Samsung laser printer just to run it in Samsung space like your own printer against you and then Placed a contact lens on top of the photo to mimic the curvature of the eye and it works great no problem I think this is yet another proof that all of these security features are not going to be You know protecting you from every form of hacking in the world It's just that it makes it difficult for someone who just happens to Get on your phone to get your phone in their hand to get into it. That's yeah And it's I think it's important to know these limitations I think it's also not Worthless to use iris scanning to lock your phone if you're in certain situations because again, it's all about reducing the risk and most of us probably don't have people who would go to the trouble of Stalking us taking a high-resolution picture of us or finding a high resolution picture of us with our eye in it then stealing our phone and Printing out that picture and putting an eye at a contact lens over it so that they can unlock our phone That's a lot of trouble to go to for most of us But if you're in a situation where your phone contains Incredibly valuable information that somebody would go to the trouble to do that with then you should know about this for sure Of course, you know for most people do the iris thing It's easy and and if you add I don't know if it's possible on those phones I'm guessing it is but to have the iris thing and the fingerprint thing At that point it's kind of like well. Yeah, someone could get those Yeah, you know the the the Apple touch ID can be fooled as well But again, you have to go to you have to go a lot of trouble to do it So it's it's a matter of of knowing how secure you're the security system You're using is look for instance compare it to hey I've used I've used a numerical code to lock my phone Which someone just needs to either guess or find out from me and trick me into revealing by looking over my shoulder Like also not secure but a lot of us use it because it's like yeah, you know We're pretty careful and and how how how much trouble is somebody gonna go to to get our phone unlock code? It's all again. It's all about putting things in place and you're right It's important for people to know that this Can be right hacked so Supercell updated their hit mobile game clash of clans in a comprehensive manner that many connoisseurs I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it in the American way or French. It's pronounced connoisseur Connoisseur, okay that many connoisseur Describe as pretty much clash of clans to the update brings a whole new map and new base as well as new mechanics That refresh gameplay for old fan fans and invites. Oh my god and invites new players in invites Now this is interesting because I like this tactic of saying we're not gonna make you download a new app Because we know a bunch of you wouldn't because you're so invested in this game So we're gonna bring out a new game and just put it in the game So this yeah, you're right This is exactly the the key part of this because we're getting to a place where mobile games are in that same Difficult situation as some of the big PC or console games have been in the past Namely games like MMORPGs where you accumulate a huge community and Since they're living breathing worlds at some point you have to wonder do I put out a new version or Do I put out kind of an expansion and keep my base and the way that Supercell has gone for clash of clans. Well, not clash of fans, too But that latest update is really clever. It's adopting that model of this is basically an expansion it Kind of wipes away a big part of the previous version of the game I'm sure it's still available if people want to play that But it also offers it's a reset it also offers an entirely new experience for people who want that and who might be Calling for it because the the old one has been around for years and might be getting a little bit stale And they make their money off in app payments, right? So as long as they keep people using the app or get people to start using it again They they have a better chance of making the money. Yeah going with clash of clans, too Would have been a very risky proposition if it was an entirely new app It's like it's like an online MMORPG, right? You just add things to it and And and hopefully keep people paying their monthly subscription this case is not a monthly subscription. It's it's in app payments, but Finally Pinterest has added the ability to identify meals By taking a picture of it. It's part of its lens feature lens in Pinterest We'll analyze the photo of the meal and then suggest matching recipes So you could make it yourself. You can also fine-tune recipe searches by time Vegetarian or vegan content or other specific ingredients if you're just looking around on Pinterest for recipes Pinterest not calling the new feature see food Although it is almost exactly the functionality described in the app see food on the show Silicon Valley So it's kind of funny. I love this because I use Pinterest to manage recipes It's how we plan our meals and being able to be out and now take a picture and put it in Pinterest and have a recipe Show up is incredibly convenient It's almost like they know what people use their service for and cater their next updates to that Well, plus I mean this is this is technology that is hard to do right I haven't tried it. So I don't know how right they've got it But yeah, taking a picture of an apple and having it tell you it's an apple That's almost expected behavior these days But being able to take a picture of a whole plate of food and have it go Okay, that's you know steak tartare and here's a good recipe that will make steak tartare that that's pretty cool You know, we should have expected it. It's not like they've done it already You know when they started to identify apples, I knew it wouldn't be long before that. Yeah, it's I use Used a few times an app called food visor that does the same thing basically or recognize at least what the dish is and Drew Nielsen in the chat room is asking if that uses the Google Lens API, which I'm not I don't think it does right It's called lens. I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. Okay. Well, there you go So, yeah, it's it's a pretty cool functionality. I don't use Pinterest myself But I'm pretty sure if I did I would be jazzed I maybe that's why I'm jazzed because I do use it and I use it for recipes And this is exactly, you know, like you say, this is the kind of thing that I didn't I didn't know I wanted if they did a survey I wouldn't have said, yeah, let me take pictures of food and then I will I will add it But but yeah, the fact that I can do it now. I'm definitely going to give this a try And then try it out. I'm sure they're going to expand it to other things I mean, it makes really good sense with finding recipes But probably they're going to be able to do other things with pictures that they will recognize the contents of That's, you know, the way the world is going It does not seem to be the same lens. It is a brand confusion It's Pinterest lens is available on iOS and Android for pinners who have their mobile devices set to English and It existed before the recent identification of lens or introduction of lens by Google. So there you go Hey, folks If you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes, subscribe to daily tech headlines Alright interesting world economic forum article out called step aside Silicon Valley There's a new tech hub in town and then there's an opinion piece Kind of using that as its launch point from the next web written by Matthew Hughes who is based in Europe for the next web bunch of interesting Facts here a London VC firm Atomico Put out a study saying last year a record setting 13.6 billion dollars was invested in Europe's tech sector That's up from 2.8 billion six years ago in 2011 Or I guess five years ago in 2011 deep tech Machine learning AI that kind of stuff I counted for 1.3 billion of the European venture. That's on the rise There are 4.7 million pro developers in Europe according to stack overflow Compared to 4.1 million in the US more professional developers in Europe than in the United States Paris Munich Zurich Copenhagen all cities with growing startup communities in tech Paris is approaching London and Berlin in the number and volume of VC finance deals Two-thirds of the Europe largest corporations by market cap have made a direct investment in tech So traditional industries are starting to move into it The Benelux region the Nordics and the Baltic countries generate as much as 8% of GDP from IT and The American companies Google Facebook Amazon all have announced major expansions that their European tech hubs Five of the 10 top 10 global computer science facilities are within the European Union The World Economic Forum article does note that the US firms still enjoy 14 times more later stage capital There's parity at the early stage but later stage US still has the advantage and of course The EU has 28 different consumer markets with different regulatory regime regimes So when you go into US or you go into China once you're in it's the same regulatory regime for the most part across the market That is not the case in Europe So I think this turns on its head a lot of what US people think of Europe They think of Europe as over-regulated and tough to succeed in now the regulation part certainly has some basis in fact But it doesn't seem like it's tough to succeed in hat from your perspective Patrick. How much of this do you think is true? I Think there is a lot of truth to I mean, okay the image I think of Americans of the European tech scene is not untrue. It's just five years old When we were talking about investment, I have a good friend called Jeff clavier at soft tech VC and we discuss, you know, the the VC and tech investment scenes regularly and It's when we talked about it a few years ago He was telling me that it was fairly weak, you know compared to the US now I wouldn't say it's I mean, maybe it's on parity in early stage for sure But he has been telling me that it is growing and that's obviously a very good sign We might not be there yet, but it's definitely on the rise and it's not as Ridiculous looking, you know, it's not as dwarfed as it was by the American side of the tech sector a few years ago So I think the image that Americans have of the of the EU is not wrong again. It's just five years old Yeah, I'm speaking up five years ago I remember the week Lamar talking about the web and talking about how they needed to have more events like that in order to Get European countries to take the tech sector seriously and it sounds like that those efforts have worked That the things are starting to turn around there. What attitude towards startups do you see from people in Europe? It's it's really interesting because we have it's almost like We have the same kind of duality that you might have in the US between the Silicon Valley and maybe maybe some other parts of the country Except it's all in the same location Like in in France. It's much smaller than the US, of course And you'll find a vibrant taxine and as some of you might know there are a lot of tech enthusiasts and developers and you know the the French tech ecosystem is absolutely Strong and at the same time, I think there's a lot of that old-world mentality which doesn't Drag the the tech seen down But sort of lives in parallel and doesn't the big players might not pay enough attention To what's happening in the tech scene in the same way that people are people do in the US However, again, I think that might be an image from a few years ago because if you look at tech in general since Smartphones have taken over the world people have started paying attention and that also happened with companies like of course, you know If you're gonna talk about Google Apple Facebook all of this is obvious, but if you look at things like Uber and Airbnb and Autonomous cars and deep learning and all of those things have Insinuated themselves in society as a whole all over the world to a point where the old world and the old Businesses have had to start paying attention and I think that's why you're seeing those statistics where Traditional businesses have started investing in tech because they realize if we don't pay attention to this There it's gonna eat us So basically the the power of tech has reached in the last few years of tipping points I think which means everyone has to pay attention including the the political world and the old industries so much that It's become a driving force in Society as a whole so that's why the the tendency the trend is shifting a little bit So let's so go ahead. Yeah, sorry. So so to summarize the attitude towards startups There is some of this annoyance towards startup, you know, the Silicon Valley show and like the the tech hipsters As you will see everywhere, but I think people understand the importance of all of this as well All right, let's go from what Europe thinks of itself to the other direction How does Europe see Silicon Valley? I mean we talked about the perception that we in the US have had of Europe Which needs to be adjusted given giving the the new facts on the ground What do people in Europe think when they think about US Silicon Valley tech scene? I Think most regular people. I mean if you look at the the the Devs and the technical people be they in you know, Paris London Helsinki Where I'm currently at or other places I think it's gonna be the same kind of attitude that we have in the tech Circles everywhere. That's not so different but society as a whole you're gonna have a mix of all in the good and negative senses and defiance because as much as you are aware of the Opportunities and dangers of huge giant companies like Google and Facebook We are aware of them as well on top of the fact that they are foreign held companies So anytime anyone brings up Facebook or Apple or Google We're gonna talk about a lot of the things that they're doing first of all tax evasion is a big topic We could go into that, but I don't think we should And then the kind of power that they exert over countries is Frightening because they are in many ways more powerful than most other countries on earth And when we talk about things like that impact our daily lives We very quickly go to the conversation you were having yesterday About censorship and which kind of values and cultural System they quote-unquote impose on the rest of the world I think text-having people understand that it's a little bit more complicated than that and you can't please everyone and It's tough goals, but a lot of the regular people will think will look at this and think at the same time You know Facebook is is Sensoring a picture as soon as you see a nipple which is very annoying to us French people And at the same time they we will say oh, but they leave posts that are clearly Hate mongering up for a very long time when we would want them taken down immediately so that kind of attitude is easier to get to I think when the companies are mostly foreign and When we see a local company that is a successful something like, you know Daily motion or Spotify or you know those that are closer to you to Europe There's a little bit of pride there that is sometimes a little bit unwarranted or an excessive pride that I would think Well, it's not like they're you know YouTube when you think of Daily motion, but yeah spotify though I think that one's justifiably worth pointing at is as being tops in its field at least at the moment Yeah, no for sure, but the ones that we have our eye on are the gaffa or Gaffam Do you use that acronym? I'm not even sure Google Apple Facebook Microsoft. Yes, Google Apple Facebook Amazon Microsoft It used to be interestingly by the way It used to be gaffa, which is Google Apple Facebook Amazon a couple of years ago and really Microsoft has crawled its way back in since Satya mania started it was kind of on the way out. So and now it's definitely back in so So these ones are the big ones that impact impact our lives so much that have the big issues with tax evasion and You know things like it's easier. I guess to tell companies or people That's how you should do things and we don't want to hear it when they are foreign be they American or you know Chinese or anything and Obviously, as you know, we don't have a lot of those giant mega players in Europe that are Originally from Europe. So we don't have to deal with that issue of telling a French company You know, that's how you have to do it because the government says that's how you have to do it, right? It's easier to say that to Facebook Well speaking of Facebook, I want to get to our message of the day first of all Thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit You can submit stories of vote on on the daily tech news show reddit.com Bob Kimble wrote in regarding that discussion yesterday about Facebook liability saying I Would suggest you look at the past there are two cases of interest one involves compu serve the other prodigy I would say that Facebook falls solidly in the prodigy camp and is a publisher the prodigy case that he's talking about is cubby incorporated versus compu serve and Stratton versus prodigy services cubby versus compu serve found compu serve to be an online service provider Therefore not a publisher So compu serve won the case Stratton claimed that prodigy could not use that defense because it exercised editorial control over the content created by its users in three ways It posted content guidelines that sounds familiar enforce the guidelines with board leaders That's not something Facebook really does but they do employ people and removed offensive language with screening software And that is something that Facebook does the court held that prodigy's conscious choice to gain the benefits of editorial control Opened it up to greater liability to compu serve and other computer networks that make no such choice now granted Bob's right If you just look at that boy It sounds like Facebook is pretty close to prodigy there and I wonder if someone took them to court in the US What that would mean? However, don't forget that the holding and Stratton was overruled by federal legislation When Congress passed section 230 of the communications decency act in 1996, which still is in effect That is the famous safe harbor provision No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information Provided by another information content provider So as long as Facebook isn't posting it and as long as Facebook continues to meet the definition of an online service provider They get to claim safe harbor and this is why you see them not taking down certain types of content Because they want to continue to be seen as someone who is look this safe harbor provision doesn't Exempt us from criminal stuff. We have the right to go in and remove criminal postings And so we will do that And we can make an argument that offending community standards could be on the line So we'll do that But we are not going to get into the process of editing people's posts because if we're seen as doing that we lose our safe harbor protection Yeah, it's it's and the thing is if you look at the definition of all of this and want to be super super Careful and make sure that you don't dip your toe into that You know starting to edit the content Then the best course of action is to do nothing and of course Facebook can't do nothing So they're well and actually in they they don't get the safe harbor protection against criminal behavior If they know of criminal behavior or if they know of copyright violation behavior Those are exemptions that they have to go in and remove so of course there's a certain amount of action that's required Of course. Yes. I my my argument is people the the public pressure is for them to do a little bit more than just that and and so the point is they they are Between a rock and a hard place the rock being the public pressure asking them to do the right thing Without defining what the right thing is and saying, oh, it's it's like the right idea of the right thing Yeah, and that's that's millions of different ideas right there Yeah, and and the thing is people don't think of it as you detailed last Yesterday, so I'm not going to go over it again people don't say do my idea of the right thing Because in their head It's just the right thing and it's easy to do and so there's the public pressure there And then there is the very real legal risk of becoming You know a publisher And uh, if you do that then all hell breaks loose. Yeah, so it's not a situation Well, thank you Patrick Beja as always frenchpin.com the place to go to find Patrick's great works Anything in particular you want to highlight today? Um, well if you enjoy gaming, maybe you'd like a Simple bimonthly show twice a month that summarizes everything there is to know about video games And in that case you can go to frenchpin.com and listen to pixels And if you enjoy tech and enjoy the french language then go to frenchpin.fr And listen to le rendezvous tech where we talk about tech in french every two weeks as well Go check it out. Thanks to everybody who gives a little value back to this show So if we can keep patrick coming back keep all of our Co-hosts coming back if you get value from the show all we ask is you give a little value back Thanks to everyone who supports us in that manner including ken von Cynthia sam colter chip burnett and many many more at patreon.com Slash dtns if you're supporting us. I'm thanking you. Yes you right now. Thank you Our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com we're live monday through friday 4 30 p.m. Eastern 2030 utc Come on by and join us at alphakeakradio.com and diamondclub.tv We've got a facebook group going at facebook.com slash dailytechnewshow and our website is dailytechnewshow.com Back tomorrow with scott johnson. Talk to you then Show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frogpants.com I hope you have enjoyed this program All right What what shall we call such a show french people don't see nipples I'm told there are nipples. I believe people but I don't see nipples Oh usb wait and see that's really good bio cow Yeah, by the way, if all of these look like bio cow, that's because bio cow had to reboot show about Dot tv. Yeah, it looks like you put the attribution in parentheses. Oh, right. So it's agc AJC And I was thinking here we alpha go again All of these are good Got a bunch of patent piece Wanna spread rumors alpha goes for another round Oh Hello, roger. Oh Reading through roger. We've been reading when I resize or spying. I see you patent piece. The french tech scene is booming Um, although it's not just france. It's it's your wide, right? Isn't that or the eu wide true? True the the story was about all of europe Yes, but I mean We all know what europe is about these days. That's why i'm learning french because that's going to be the language of europe now It wasn't it wasn't it the language of europe back in the 18th century exactly and if it was good enough that considering Emigrating to france. Oh, no, I I know you don't want immigrants there No, we're we're fine with don't don't you know, we didn't elect. Yeah, most of you are That's true Especially tech people. He's like the the the joke now is that uh, my coin is running his government like a startup. Yeah, yeah Oh, I like it now. We have pudding And now we have pudding we go alpha go when irish eyes are spying on you iris facebook Are spying The french people don't see nipples is the popular choice. All right They do see nipples. They just aren't they just aren't uh, no, we we see them. We don't want people to take them away That's true. It kind of is is incorrect They french people do see them and don't want to be prevented from what about like french people aren't bothered by nipples Yeah, but that's not as That's snappy I like usb wait and see you too French nipple people You're just saying weird words Yeah, you're just rearranging the appropriate words Um, you don't people nipples french. I think usb wait and see it could be fine No Yeah, yeah, I like it. I voted. It's all right I well, I I'm trying to get some that That Kind of sums up the discussion um sums up the discussion The french tech scene is booming is europe the new silicon valley The problem is you can't write the title in that place So many, you know, that's just like one of the most overused Is this blah blah blah the new so good? Yeah, the answer is no And I remember someone writing I think it was the mercury times. It's like you don't want another silicon valley. You want something that works, right? It's That there's a silicon valley works. That was actually one of the silicon valley works for where it is and what it was one of these headlines Uh, europe isn't the new silicon valley. It's it's better better. Yeah Yeah, okay, but that's the next web's headline so we can't use it Uh, microsoft surface is definitely one of our discussed stories and it's in my description so we can go with usb wait usb wait and see That works usb wait and see usb wait and see uh tech crunches devon cole do he has an excellent analysis of the uh proposal for notice of proposed rulemaking for net neutrality up And while he's a little snarky in his description, he points out something very good Which is that in the notice The definitions of an information service and a telecommunications service are quoted from the telecommunications act of 1996 And he makes the argument that The definitions very clearly Describe the internet as a telecommunications service and the FCC's argument that it's an information service is a misunderstanding Of how the internet works So i'm going to read you the two definitions And you tell me which one sounds like the internet to you based on how you know the internet works Are you ready? Okay definition one The offering of a capability for generating acquiring storing transforming processing retrieving utilizing or making available information via telecommunications And includes electronic publishing but does not include any use of any such capability for the management control or operation of a telecommunications system definition two The transmission between or among points specified by the user of information of the user's choosing Without change in the form or content of the information as sent and received to Well, the second one would be The internet if you have net neutrality uh The because it could be argued that in the second the No changing of the information Some things I think could be argued without changing the form or content of the information So in other words, you're not you're not taking like if I if I ask for a web page You give me the web page. You don't take the web page and then reinterpret it And bring it to me like I've summarized the web page for you is currently it's so but what happens if you change the ads on the web page I guess. Yeah, I mean, that's an interesting side point. But but yeah, the second one. Yes Uh, the FCC is making the argument that very clearly It's definition one Uh, let me read what they say whether posting on social media Or drafting a blog or a broadband internet user is able to generate and make available information online Whether reading a newspaper's website or browsing the results from a search engine a broadband internet user is able to acquire And retrieve information online in short Broadband internet access service appears to offer its users the capability To perform each and every one of the functions listed in the definition of an information service And accordingly appears to be an information service by that definition What but what's the second part? Can you read the second part of the first definition again? The second part of the first definition is The offering of a capability for generating acquiring storing transforming processing retrieving Utilizing or making available information via telecommunications and includes electronic publishing But does not include any use of any such capability for the management control or operation of a telecommunication system So it does offer all of those No, and this is actually this is actually devon kuldue's point is that Internet service providers do not Generate information. They do not acquire information. They don't know I mean the second part the second part. What what you're saying? What? Sorry, can you read the like the the Your site does not include or any use of such capability for the management control or operation of a telecommunications system Right. It includes all of those the the isps do all of that. Yes an isp manages controls. Yes. So yeah, exactly The what they're trying to say is well you post on social media So you're acquiring and generating content on the internet So your internet service provider is an information service and the fact is no you're not You're creating your content on facebook or on twitter. Those are information services The idea that you are sending information to facebook through a telecommunication system Is what the internet service provider Exactly Uh And and they make the argument the FCC says Yeah, but you know, you don't know it says the transmission between or among points specified by the user the user doesn't know Where this information is going like yes, it absolutely does Because you use a url a universal resource Indicator or locator To send to say I would like to access that piece of information there That is equivalent of a phone number A phone number on a telecommunications service doesn't say I need you to connect me to this node Uh, or or this part of the telephone system, but it does say I want to access this end user And that defines it as a telecommunication system Without getting too political this does sound like something that's become a habit of Showing something that's black and saying hey look, this is white clearly. It is white We say it is white and it is white I think it's it's even less than that though because a lot of people will look at this and go Oh, yeah, no, I I I do all of these things on the internet. I I I create information I request information I I guess the FCC is right because I do all of these things on the internet Yeah, and it is a fundamental misunderstanding. Yeah, exactly that it's like no But you do them with other information service providers because of the internet Because the telecommunication service that is the internet exists to connect you between those two points Your your isp doesn't store your facebook posts. It doesn't store the google search results It doesn't do any of that. It connects you to those things And the fact that people don't understand that is you know is what they're playing upon Anyway, I I actually don't even like the idea of using common carrier As the classification for the internet because I think the internet is an entirely different thing And I think we need to come up with new rules for that And new rules definitions are light regulation and promote competition However, all that said it certainly fits the telecommunications definition a lot closer than it does the information service definition Just saying Oh, well, all right. I think I shall retire From from podcasting You're so french retiring at such an early age But I want to go out on top on top of your game. Okay. That's fair. No, I get it Yeah, I'm about to close the stream anyway. So thank you patrick I know it's late now that that you're in that different time zone. So appreciate you staying up for us Almost half past midnight Oh, no, imagine that I'm old now. I have to go to bed soon. I couldn't do it I really couldn't so thank you. I have to I have a kid that doesn't go to bed till one My pleasure. All right. Thanks everybody for watching. Thanks guys. Bye