 Welcome to Breeder's Syndicate 2.0, where we explore the history of a clandestine scene. Researching everything from cannabis strain history, old smuggling tales from the first person perspective, to breeding science and news on current subculture. I'm your host, Matthew, and I'll occasionally be joined by my homey not-so-dog, Breeder and Grower from Mendicino, to speak on these subjects and sometimes interview other participants. Our goal is to document this history before it's written by corporations and others who just weren't there. Let's start writing some wrongs. Welcome to the Underground. Welcome to Breeder's Syndicate. I'm Matthew, and I'm here with Deon Goldcutt, brand from Austria, and he is a gardener responsible for producing many of the clones that have gone around Austria in Europe for the past 20 years. And we're going to have a discussion about the climate in Austria specifically and the clone market, the genetics there, and what he's seen as far as the past several years, how it's changed and how it's affected what he's doing. So, yeah, welcome. Yeah, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to finally be here with you and talk about a few things that may be interesting for some of you folks out there who are not from Central Europe or from Austria. Shout out to my homies from Austria. I hope you listen in. Yeah, let's do this, my friend. Alright, so what got you into cannabis? We'll start there, like we always do. What got you into cannabis? What made you so interested in genetics specifically? So it all started with cannabis culture here in Vienna. You have to know that in the very beginning there was no weed. Okay, we didn't have seeds. Your source for cannabis products was either a hash bar, a legal hash bar. It's not like a coffee shop in Amsterdam where you go and you can order and everything. Now, it was illegal. You had to wait for a half hour and six hours to get your Moroccan, mostly Moroccan hash. That's where we all used to source our cannabis. You can imagine no one was very pleased with going there. Was it illegal, hash bar, or legal? Illegal. The front was like a normal cafe or a shady kind of rundown cafe. But you had to wait for two hours to then buy cannabis or buy hash from a dealer that suddenly appeared out of nowhere. Until a certain time where everybody was fed up with that, I can remember. I think it started with me buying high-times magazines and seeing all those amazing plants and amazing flowers. I was like, dude, okay, there's actually flower out there that I have to source somehow. That's how it started with various people who either got seeds from someone or ordered them or went to Amsterdam and brought something back. I collected bag seeds back then from people who brought wheat back. I think most of it was from Holland. Some of it was just hippie bag seeds from some dude from somewhere. But it started with bag seeds that I collected. Because I'm a professional gardener, I did a apprenticeship and I have a master's degree in gardening and landscape gardening. I started to collect those seeds and at one point I was like, hey, you know what? I lived with my mom back then. She had a garden in a public housing home, a house. We had an apartment in a public housing complex here in the outskirts of Vienna. And I started most of the seeds I had. It was a big ass bag full of mixed bag seeds. I ended up with, I don't know, 200 different plants. How did mom like that? Mom was first like, well, this is beautiful. She had no problems with it. But at a certain point it was just pissed her off because she had to water them while I was at work or out. She had to water your plants, God damn it. That's amazing. From there on I think it started to, because I was blown away by the varieties and everything was like, okay, this is a whole different world. And then we started to buy seeds. I think the first seeds were from a shop here, which were, I think, 10 seeds most of them and probably positronics and all stuff that they bought in bulk and then repackaged into smaller 5 units or 10. So we bought those seeds and started from there. I bought my first HBS, super expensive, huge fucking thing. We started and unfortunately the guy that did this first couple tries turned out to be a claptomania. He got busted because his cellar was full of stolen shit. Yeah, I almost got busted too. Man, that was a wake-up call, my first problems with the law. But I never stopped from there. That's a way to do it, man. I mean, once you get the bug, it's a little hard to stop. Once you see all these beautiful plants and you've popped like 200 seeds and you see what the potential is, it's really hard to back it off and just be like, ah, I'm done from here on out. Yeah, and especially I never questioned it. I never asked myself, oh, this is a good idea or not. It was just a very natural progression and the law for gardening. I'm a gardener. It was just natural that where I did my apprenticeship, the boss told me, Dan, you have to specialize in something. If you want to stay gardening, you want to keep on gardening and being a gardener, you have to specialize in the field and be the best you can be in this field. Absolutely, be the best. So he was telling you to specialize in something specific and to be the best at it possible. That's probably the best advice anybody could give because realistically in this world, if you're not the best at what you do, it's very hard to make a name unless you're rich and can afford tons of advertising. That's the only way around being the best at what you do and pure skill. Yeah, at that point I was a youngster and I had no idea how this will work in the future for me, but I continued as a gardener and I specialized in being a landscape gardener and arborist and cutting trees and cutting fruit trees. And one day after almost 10 years working as a landscape gardener and tree mason or however you guys call it, I met an old colleague who once worked with me and he introduced me to the legal cannabis industry in Austria because I was not aware. For me, going to shops was kind of sketchy. I had this old school mentality where I would not go to a shop and disclose myself. So I was doing my cannabis thing but away from all those shops who started to sell seeds and clones. They started to have their copper strength that they sold as clones. And this guy said to me, hey dude, you should take a look at this one company where I worked. They are producing cannabis plants and I was like, are you fucking kidding me dude? What do you mean, cannabis plants? Yeah, come there, we need gardeners. They are looking for gardeners and you are a very good gardener because he knew me how I worked as a landscape gardener and in general as the gardener who I am. And I went there and I was kind of surprised how rudimentary everything was and how they worked and how they thought the production should look like. But I said to myself, you know what, after 10 years busting your ass in the cold in every weather outside and climbing trees and sweating and full of two stroke fumes and fucking, you know, I said to myself dude, why not just giving it a chance? If you don't like it, you can still come back and do what you did the last 10 years. But I didn't really have a perspective in landscape gardening and cutting trees but I later found out that the skill of cutting trees the right way helped me a lot in shaping mother plants and doing what I know. Gave me the best, you know, basis on how to continue and learn how to improve. Yeah, and I started working there and worked there for around six years or seven years. And as a major producer, the biggest producer back then, the biggest production company in Central Europe for legal THC clones. Wow. What kind of clones are they producing at the time? Like what type of strains? Man, they had a lot of stuff. When I started there, they had mostly the selections that kind of were passed on from shop to shop or some people started a 10 pack of, I don't know, Shiva skank or Afghani delight or white rushy or whatever. And so they started with those and it kind of went from there. And I remember at a certain point, you know, the strains that we were offering were played out and everything was, I remember it was dotting back then, you know. Yeah, yeah. Those were already fucked genetics. Yeah, even back then. Yeah, even back then because it was mass produced and the symptoms I remember with, you know, exactly what we are talking about today. But it still, still was sold in pretty, pretty big amounts. And I could see it getting bigger and bigger month after month and more and more and more because we were producing reliable. You could come to the shop, do your pre-order, place a down payment on your order and I don't know, three weeks from there you could pick up your order in discreet boxes. So yeah, it continued to grow and grow and we started to, you know, implement some changes in the facility because it was, I mean, it was, dude, crazy dingle dangle of cables everywhere and fucking mess when I started. A mess, everything was made out of wood. Oh, that's good. There was no, there was no stainless steel or nothing. Nothing was, it was so dirty. But we started to improve everything and also adapt and change the electricity, the whole, you know, breaker, breaker boxes and everything was adapt. A new AC and, yeah, and at one point I couldn't get along with those, the owners there. Yeah, I went a different direction, continued to work for, for, for other person. And after that I worked for other person and other person and here I am 20 years later, you know, working for other person as a contractor. I also went to stereo for two years to work for the largest CBD producer in Central Europe. Yeah, that was a wild ride, you know, very intense during COVID. Everything was during the lockdown and COVID. Yeah. I was, I was traveling two hours in one direction, two times a week to go there, work there for Thursday and then go back to Vienna. And yeah, I learned a lot there. I've seen a lot and I implemented a lot of changes and you can't imagine, you know, it changed a lot. It really changed a lot because they had their view on things, agricultural kind of way to do it. And I had my cannabis thinking and we, I think we improved a lot, but I've seen a lot of bullshit, man, you can't even imagine. Maybe one day I will, I would, you know, tell those wild shit stories of producing CBD in stereo, dude. Oh my, I bet, dude. Like, I know, I know going, when I got hired to do like that big hemp reversal and 13,000 clients, like I went in there and it was an ag company with like middlemen that were a kind of cannabis, they will say they're candidate's people because they sold weed, but really they were, they were not. And the middlemen not being really good at what they did, they hired me to consult on this reversal. So I go to look and it's at a grape farm and it's in flower. It's two weeks into flower outdoors and they said, yeah, so can we reverse this? And I said, are you, what are you talking about? Like you should have been doing this. So I had to teach these guys how to fucking re-vege outdoors, which is, you know what I mean? Like in these big greenhouses, I had to get them to buy all these lights, re-vege 13,000 plants so that we could actually use the same plants and redo it because they didn't want to kill anything. But it was like the ad people there are very good at growing grapes. They were masters at growing grapes. So they thought that they could easily apply this to cannabis because if stoners can do it, why can't they? And that kind of mindset fucking pervaded all of it, all of it every time. Anything I said, it would be like, well, well, you know, we do it this way. And I'm like, well, I know what's effective. You hired me to consult. You're paying me a lot of money to consult. You might want to take some advice. That's what you're paying for. Yeah, it was both and it was also super shady. The CBD industry, especially with, I mean, producing flowers with 0.2 and 10% CBD. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right. And that's the way it worked in America. And like for a long time, we weren't allowed to talk about it because it was almost akin to like airing out the industry. But the problem was it sunk our industry, letting a bunch of these chads growing hemp grow a bunch of THD in their fields, shittily. And then they tried to, they didn't try to, they dropped that shitty weed on the black market and crashed the black market with it because it was just so pervasive and all throughout the U.S. And so fuck those guys. They were growing CBD flowers and hemp flowers that were kind of similar or they were working towards having or offering CBD flower that is kind of similar to amnesia. So black market buyers could buy cheap hemp, mix it with real amnesia and drop it on the black market. Oh, Jesus Christ. Who the fuck comes up with ideas like that? The hemp industry. They found a way to cut weed. So let's cut it like cocaine with, yeah, that's horrible. That is horrible. So that was also something where, you know, I saw things where I said to myself, but I see enough, you know, you got paid really good. But, you know, it was a great experience and learning a lot. But I also heard a call from my CD. Hey, you have to come. Yeah. The person I work for now made an offer that I thought was good at that point and also brought me back to my family because I have a six year old boy and I wanted to come back home and be with him more and not spend. I mean, I drove in almost two years. I drove over 70,000 kilometers with my fucking car that I got from them. Jesus. It was too much driving. Yeah. No, you're not a long distance trucker, bro. You don't need to be driving. No. So I came back and that's where I'm right now. And I think when I came back a couple months later, we kind of got into talking about the idea of bringing riot seeds to Central Europe. Yeah. I felt the need because I saw what's going on in Europe and even though some of it is some of the stuff that is happening with new genetics or new crosses. Some of it is, I think is good. I don't want to talk down on everything. There will be just pure hating bullshit. Yeah. But I saw bottleneck. I saw it just fucking breaking it down to two or three things that were a hype beast and everything was obscure. I couldn't, you know, I couldn't, you know, I was like, what the fuck is this? I don't like this bullshit and how it's, you know, the way it's going. Yeah. So I really felt the need to, and also with the legalization in your country and things happen in here in Central Europe. I really felt the need to, I felt the need to kind of start really thinking about what we are doing and how we can improve it for everybody or kind of not be part of the problem. It sounds cheesy, I know, and I said that often, but I really don't, in my future work, and we all did bullshit in the past and made mistakes. That's normally especially in cannabis for me. Yeah. We, I have to think about being part of a better solution and kind of working towards this way. Yes, I think was part of the decision by why we, we got married. Yeah, we got married and this is, and it was important to me one I don't exist in the European market so much, because I just don't have people that I trusted over there in the first place like I know people over there. But I've had fallouts with a lot of people over there, you know, karma and all the rest, it's, it's, it's bad. I would like you maybe to talk some about maybe expand a little more on what you've seen and how it's gone down with as far as US breeders who is big over there, who are you seeing big over there. So it changed a lot from being people being super skeptic and just boring, their staple fucking European things or the five, I don't know, white widow, decent dad, Jack Harrow, and they didn't ever like, no, fuck all these other bullshit. We are happy with what we have. Amnesia. Amnesia, yeah. It was a staple European strain. We both really enjoy Amnesia. So, but at one point, people got really curious because you legalized and you had this medical thing and me too, I was super curious. That's why I connected globally and started my network and, but, you know, people got curious and from there on, it started into different directions. People offered the real deal or kind of made it all the work and put in the effort to introduce people to the real deal or some authentic cuts or, you know, and the others were selling a, selling a dream or just then what the market was, was screaming for. We want Kelly. I can't hear this, you know, it's obvious to you guys, but the word Kelly, you know, how often people refer to Kelly. Yeah. And so some of those companies, some of those companies that are also not from the States, who are based in Spain also started to, you know, bring in those names. But how authentic they were, I don't know. Sometimes in my large, yeah. Yeah. And also the seeds, you know, the seeds that they sell, how authentic are those cuts, those seeds and the cuts that they use to produce those seeds. I think it's, it's often, it's often really, it's sad, dude, that some of the people who, who crave for, let's say just a sour diesel. Yes. They buy some random Spain, don't know if they made sour diesel from a company that buys them in bulk from a, from a producer somewhere. Yeah, yeah. And they expect this to be sour diesel. Sure. And, and their 50 friends expected, okay, this is sour diesel, dude. And another hundred from there expect the label that says sour diesel to be sour diesel. And, you know, it's, it's apples and bananas. It's so different, it's crazy. And yeah, so some of the names you probably know are pushing really hard towards, towards this need for, for Californian or American names. Yeah. How authentic a lot of those are, I don't know, because I haven't tried a lot of them. Sure. I tried a couple and none of it was even close. Yeah. And, and, and now, especially now I see, now I see a lot of things that I thought were already a thing of the past coming back. All those kettle crosses. Oh, God. Yeah. All the rainbow sherbet crosses. Yeah. This, this cherry gelato. Lemon cherry gelato. Lemon cherry gelato. And yeah, those, those things are, but we are talking about a special cost. Those are a special, I should say lane, this is a special lane that people choose and want to buy and want to, you know, spend a lot of money. You know, spend a lot of money on buying those seeds and chasing this. I don't know. This is going to be, you know, special. That's got to be really disappointing. Like for people who like really chase it and then they get it and they're like, oh, cool. Man, I just talked with one guy who bought some riot, some riot seeds. I talked with him and he sent me a list of what he started in the last two years, I think. The whole list was full of Z and sherps and Z's and Z's and he said everything was crap. Can you imagine that? Zope. Everything was crap. And I called him, maybe you should try some and let him know how you like this work. And he was very intrigued by it. And, you know, but it reflects that people here spend a lot of money on what they think will sell as either flour or concentrate or just, just because of the name and the third profile, which is now Sherp and Z. So I feel like because the American market is so removed, even the American market just alone, the American market is so removed, like 99% of it is so removed from real breeding and what's going on with real breeders and real seed making and strain collecting and the few who hold the cuts. Very few people even know about that. So you take that from Americans who kind of all fall along the lines of fuck compounds breeder of the year, you know what I mean? Who doesn't even make seeds. And you translate that to playing telephone with Europe. Now Europe straight seeing this, trying to figure out what's going on in America to catch some of that hype thing. And they're seeing like idiots as the first thing representing America and they glom onto it instantly instead of digging deeper. I mean, they're granted. There's you. I got lucky. You dug deeper, but it is so rare. Yeah, that was one of one of the one of the things that are very early on. I wanted to see the both sides of the metal. What you guys said over there, because for me, it was like looking into the future, what it will bring here. Yeah, if I see the downside, I can because it will happen here. It will. The same things will happen here. Absolutely. And people call me, you know, all types of things negative and this and that. And you just hate them because of you cannot find a place for you in the legal game in the future. That's why you're hating on it and shit like that, you know. Yeah, whatever. But that was always a big question for me. Where's the downside? And what will happen if those guys will, I mean, bottleneck the whole gene pool to just gelato and fucking inbred times inbred times inbred. Yeah. Yeah, inbred cookies is all we got over there. And people don't, you know, because you mentioned breathing and who's a real breather. Good people don't care who's a real breather. No, they don't. That's the other part. They care about money. They care about how can I sell this product because X amount of people want to now have this product. And how big your mylars are. Yeah, they are fucking huge. And if you buy the right seats now, you save 90 percent mileage would save the planet. That's right. Yeah, we're trying to save the planet by only using tiny mylars. Yeah, man. Yeah. And I see that happening a lot in this chase. I think with all, like with most of the trends, it will only last so long. And there is a certain group, a certain amount of people. And it's a growing amount of people who are asking for, hey, so what about Cam? And I heard about this and that diesel, which diesel then? You know, they... Yeah, asking the right questions. Questions that were not asked, let's say 15 years back, 15 years ago, so 10 years ago. And I think that's the right way. And that's where I will always kind of gravitate towards this group and sharing what I can learn and also trying to get, you know, a good idea on the authentic cut of the taste of this and how she could, especially if I can bring something back and cultivate it. That was always my goal to bring those seats back. And I did that. I risked my ass bringing back a bunch of seats in my luggage to Europe. And I pop all those beans and with the hope to find something that I can share with my people here. Absolutely. Yeah, and I don't, you know, looking at all those breeders and catalogs and offerings and people that are following online. I look at it and for me today, it's like a type of music that I don't listen to. I don't have to look at it. I look at it like it's a whole different industry because like they're reselling seed, they're seed resellers. So we're kind of in the same industry, but like I don't work with seed resellers. I don't buy from resellers. So we don't, I just like, that's not even my lane. I don't give a shit what goes on there. Like, unfortunately, it affects all of the business because people think that is what we are because of them. You know what I mean? But one of the most important reasons I wanted to do this show too is because I wanted, we have the syndicate, right? We have a breeder syndicate and slowly people are forming these small groups around the country. But we have breeder syndicate people in Europe and you're our rep in Europe with a breeder syndicate and riot. And I want people to know who that is so they can see the face of it and be able to connect with you. Right there. This guy. Yeah, I tried to react really quick on requests. I hope I didn't disappoint any of you guys. Oh, I doubt it. I even tried to reach out in Spain during the Spannabis was a bit of a disappointment, but yeah. Those, those events, like I've always wanted to go to Spannabis because it sounds like a wild party. But like at the same time, it sounds like the events aren't like it used to be even. Yes, it's big. It became really big. It happened with Emerald Cup here. We used to put our, our events, we used to have our events around Emerald Cup because that's where we'd all meet and sell seeds. And it was a big deal and we loved it and we supported it a lot. And then it became corporate. And now it's just like, I just talked to Tim Blake today for that runs Emerald Cup and he said he wants to do show. I'm very interested to talk to him too. And really like, you know, like, hey, like what, you know, this is what we saw. We loved it. Why did it change? You know, I think that would be a good question. Yeah. It's the influx. I think the influx of people, just the constant pouring in of people here in Europe. And yeah, it's going to be interesting in the next couple years to see where we are heading, especially with Germany going, going legal. We have these clubs and, you know, all that. It's going to be interesting for me too, because it's our neighboring country and how it's going to impact everything here. Yeah. And that's why I think, you know, I want to, I want to share a lot of cuts. Because I feel like this is this, this golden time before the fucking thing goes pop and goes completely bananas when it goes, when it goes legal. Yeah. I experienced it in your country when I did my travels to the United States. Absolutely. I was a card holder in, in Kelly and in Oregon. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. So I know how it was before everything went crazy. Yeah. It was beautiful. Like, to be honest, like Prop 215, even though it wasn't perfect, like it was way better than what we have now. So much better. And, and it was sad that we saw cannabis people pushing for Prop 64. And people are just like, Hey, it's just California. It doesn't matter. It doesn't affect me. The fuck it doesn't. California affects the world, like what happens. It affects Vienna. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like it was a big deal. It was a real big deal for the world. And, and, you know, I always try to share, to try to share my impressions and also share this, this kind of downside of it. But people don't want to hear it today. And I, you know, often got me pretty pissed at people because they don't want to hear it. Yeah. But I have to understand that this is how they want to do cannabis in the future for them. Yeah. And that's how it is. So like, you know, you said earlier, you said you felt kind of silly, you know, for saying like, you know, you have to do something or, you know what I mean? But that's like what I thought, you know, at a social activism level, and that's what it is. Like, I don't like what I see. I can either get mad and do nothing. Or I can fucking try to set up a group so we can push back because that's all we got. This is all we got. And if no one's doing it, someone has to. And it seems like there's a lot of us have a similar mindset that are slowly forming and gripping together across the world that all have the same mindset. We don't like what we see. We love, we love genetics. We love the plants and we see how bad and how quickly it's gone from like having an idea of what we have to just like bullshit. Like as we pick through history, we're realizing there isn't a single clone that got popular that has perfect provenance on it with true stories. There's none. That's bad. And I think during that time in Vienna, where I was a contractor for various bigger producers, people contacted those producers, those companies and gave them their parts of the library. So suddenly we had Californian cuts and stuff like that. And I could see how it grows and how I can cultivate all that. And it changed so quickly that old stuff disappeared and all the new stuff came in and nobody asked for the old stuff anymore. You know, we don't want to sound like dinosaurs. No, I don't want to sound like an old fucking stubborn guy. No, I don't allow you to stop. I don't want to. Yeah. That's not what it is. No, not at all. I've, you know, like when cookies popped up in, you know, and I got a hold of it at the end of 2010, early 2011. It might have been late 2011, something like that. But when we released the seedline, like we are trying to do unique shit with it. It's cool because no one had done anything with cookies yet. So I was thinking, wow, I can do some unique stuff with this unique looking plant. And nowadays I regret ever touching it because like it contributed to the whole decline of the gene pool. And I just didn't know back then that everybody was going to do what I just did. You know, like I had no clue. And it was, I mean, it was good for all of us. I also was one of the first guys who got, who cultivated a cookie hybrid here. Yeah. Because I came back from a journey on the West Coast trying all types of cookie crosses. And I was like, okay, I now understand why it's popular. And I tried to bring it back. And sure, I've also played my role in introducing a lot of people to this particular, to this particular plant that changed. Even it changed shit here. Yeah. It changed it everywhere. Because the bag of pills started beautiful plants on Instagram started a lot and attracted a lot of people. Instagram to me changed the way people breed because like before with Instagram, before Instagram, you would have to be on forums to see people's inside their grows for the most part. You'd have to be in that little forum community. A lot of people didn't join those or weren't a part of it. You had the new wave of people on Instagram and Instagram, everything is very visual. Everything's got to be beautiful that you see. If you see a plant that's old and doesn't have a lot of resin, it's not going to get a lot of play. Like that's not easy to market. Like why would I smoke that when I could smoke this frosty thing over here? Because people don't understand what resin glands are and the oils they contain and all that stuff. So they don't understand visually that you can't judge a plant visually like that. But cookies are so frosty and so beautiful that the Instagram generation, it just never changed after that. Everything has to be that level of resin or it's not acceptable. Because that's the way their mindset is and extractors and everything else. That's their mindset and they don't get it. They just don't get it. And then they try to put some hybrid out of the book on its line. And they're like, wait a minute. Damn. With the blue bonnet, it's been very hard to resell blueberry. Because there's been DJ Shorts blueberry for decades. And many people have spent good money on his blueberries. And maybe they were happy. Maybe they weren't most likely. Like if they were looking for a true blueberry smelling plant that tastes like blueberry, they probably weren't super stoked because it's not that. But I mean, it's in there. It would just take a lot of popping it. They were so expensive, prohibitively expensive to buy tons of packs of. So a lot of people tried it, spent the money and decided in their mind, I've tried blueberry. I know what it's like. I don't like it. It doesn't get me that high. You know, didn't really taste that blue. So coming along later and then saying, no, I have blueberry. It tastes and smells like blueberry. It's people are like, yeah, right. I mean, I've already spent money on blueberry. Why am I going to try again? So it's been a hard sell. It's been a very fricking hard sell. But I know it's so special and so unique to bring this back that I'm stubborn on it. Like I'm not going to, I'm not going to fold on it. Exactly. Exactly. One of, I think one of the, one of the, the, one of the strains of flavors there was over all those years, most requests I got or questions say, can you get a real blueberry? Yeah. Like, I mean a real blueberry, like real blueberry or chemical blueberry flavors. Yeah. And I remember I bought a couple packs of, of short blueberry and I only found woody kind of booth tasting beautiful looking, but it wasn't beautiful. But yeah, it was not. It was not good. Nobody would came back and ask for more. I'll respect the DJ, but you don't see a chair of his cuts floating around. Like you have his, his selected cut of 98 blueberry. That's what most people use when they breathe blueberry. And that's it. Like his cut. Yeah. And I mean, I know, I know at least 10 guys out there who spent between 200 and 1,500 euros on, on blueberry seeds and never found shit. I mean, are they all idiots? I don't know. I don't think so. But I don't think so. I mean, I did the same. I did the same. And why wouldn't you know, like, cause that's the guy who made blueberry. And so that's why I was intrigued when you know, explained everything and told me the whole thing about, about, about the blue bonnet. Yeah. And I said, dude, talk to a couple of people here and kind of try to get a feel on, is there any, anybody interested in a bunch of people work? Cause they were fed up with gelato flavors. Oh, I bet. And it wanted something relevant or the real throwback or more improved kind of throwback. Yeah. And also, also potent, not only tasting like that. Cause I mean, there's a lot of tasty stuff out there. It's not potent or. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, any California orange or Skittles or any of it, they're not potent. But they, but yeah, now this, this is special. And, you know, like I was hard to figure out what would sell in Europe. Right. Because we have over here, sour, obviously sells, you know, a bubble berry, cherry berry, all that stuff sells really well here. But for Europe, it's hard to pick what would sell over there. And I have. Yeah. That was, man, I was thinking about this, I don't know, couple, couple of days before we really sat down and decided what, what six I would pick. Yeah. Cause I thought about certain things today, I would maybe change a couple of those choices that are made, but we, we chose blister green, blooper skunk, cookie berry, bubble berry, trade mug jet, valley blue and blue sour and yeah, the blue bonnet BX1. That's right. Which was sold out first. Yeah. And that's the same way with me, the F2s and BX1 and Incross sold out instantly, every time. Yeah. People wanted to buy them for breeding projects. Yeah. And I can understand, imagine some of those guys are like, dude, imagine a blueberry skittles. You know, like that. So I worked out, cause they were, most of the guys were asking for what is the most blueberry of all of them. Yeah. That's easy. But bubble berry and cookie berry sold a lot. Yeah. People were asking for both of them. And those are very, very blueberry too. There's some heavy blueberries in those. And the blue sour and valley blue, trade mug jet also, but blue sour and valley blue because of the, yeah, people would, you know, would love to have a good OG and a real, or D what we consider real sour. Yeah. Or sour diesel. That is the sour. You know what I mean? Like, and it comes out very sour. We put up some beautiful pictures two days ago of blue, my GG4 Cross that we gave away, which was actually, me and Josie were good friends from early glue that, that him and Lone Wadi developed really good. You know, as a rest in peace, Josie and Lone. But like that was the last projects we were working on in a club. He was working with CSI on the glue 1000, which is a two 1000 glue cross, which is one of Josie's favorite smoke and the glue blue bonnet. And when he passed, that was the plan was to release it together. And because he didn't, we didn't. I'm just mostly giving as many out for free as I can. He's like, it's a fire ass line. It's beautiful. And it's, it's something special with me and Joe. You know, she looks beautiful. I posted the pictures on the right seat. Co Europe account too. And I don't know why I didn't pick her. But we chose other ones because of certain reasons. People are curious. And I can tell you guys, I mean, if you are talking about the price only because that was often the main question. Yeah. It is a steal for what you get. And I'm not exaggerating. Okay. I would never say that if it wasn't like this. So, so if you ever, if you ever want to pick one of those or couple, the price is always amazing. And, and I mean, what you get for that is something that some of those huge fucking Milo guys can't offer and will never be able to offer. You think they can, but they can't know. They can't. The best they can do is I've done and what Lone Star did, but they don't know how to do that. They don't have a select. There's no way they don't even know what the traits are to breed for. You know what I mean? And that's, that's what it takes when you work blueberries knowing the traits to breed for. Yeah. So, I mean, they might be able to S one one of my things and change the name, but everybody's going to know what the fuck it is. Cause there's nothing as blueberry as it, you know, so it's kind of dark as it's on the little stamp. I can't wait for the first of our customers here and supporters in Europe to, to, I mean, one of them already showed me his blue bonnet BX one and he's blown away. I've had others, others are, you know, sure going to come back with results very soon. I think in the next couple of weeks or months. And I will share those with you guys to show. I know that you want every single one of those showcase in every aspect and super high resolution. We are working on that and we will, you know, show everything that we can in regards to all of the hybrids. And, and always, always. And he knows this and because of how he is like, you know that I would ask you to be transparent. If something sucks. Yeah. It looks like shit. Put it up like something is just data points to me. It's data points. And there's, there's bad in lines, even lines that I make that lines that my friends make. There's a high ceiling, you know, and then there's a floor and breeding. Yeah. And I like to show it all because they're all data points to me. You know, I love that. I love that when people do that and are honest. Yeah. And they are regular seats because a lot of people asked. Yeah. What's up with feminized seats? Isn't that some of the stuff that is offered to right? Or right through Matthew to ride seats is also there. Some feminized seats also. And if you guys are interested in something that is offered on ride seats. Contact Matthew or me and we can work everything out. Yep. It's not all in your wallet line. Yeah. Yeah. If you're in Europe and you want to get a hold of my stuff, hit it day on on both cut or right. Get it to you. We will make it happen. Yeah. No, really not a big deal for us. And we want to do that is I think with, with looking at the seats that are offered, we have to do this. That's why I stepped in with you and decided to do this. I'd like to eventually get out like the whole syndicates group stuff out there like high and lonesomes, you know, all that stuff eventually get it out there. So everybody can get everything in Europe from from people that are vetted by our breeder syndicate groups. That's the thing. Like people see it like, I don't even consider what I have on my side to seed bank at all because I never wanted to run a seed bank. It has nothing to do with that. All it is is our group of friends. And the only reason people have made it into our group of friends is because we fucking have vetted every each other super fucking heavy and it's built up over years. And these are guys that I would put my own reputation behind. Like I don't do that with people. I don't. But that's as real as you can get. Yeah. If I look at the list now and British syndicate, all the guys who contribute to, I mean, that's some amazing stuff. Yeah, just you have to look at it, go to British syndicate and follow and take a look at it and decide for yourself. Me and CSI, we just talked about yesterday and we're going to do some diesel FEM projects, so yeah, so bringing diesel back, the S ones, the hybrids and a lot of hybrids I've never made. So I'm really stoked to see diesel hit like, I don't know, TK. I will reverse. We did the diesel TK. What is he? What is in there? G diesel chem one will be interesting. Diesel. He did the diesel came 91 and I haven't run that yet. With, I think he reversed the chem 91 onto the diesel, but we're going to reverse the diesel under the chem 91, but those are fucking phenomenal. Like I can't wait. What's with diesel, Erco? Oh yeah, diesel, Erco. I've never done that. Like there's so much to do. And it's like, it's a perfect super skunk. Everybody wants super skunk. And even in Europe, everybody wants old skunky stuff. Right. And it's there. Yeah. It's fucking easy to get. The expectation I think is different. And I think people would be surprised if they try to say a diesel today. Diesel was available in Vienna long time ago. Oh, really? I remember it looks exactly like your diesel. Yeah. And I remember it being super potent, skunky, very, very heavy smoke. Yeah. It's good shit. It's really good. It's my favorite of the kens and diesels, all of them combined. It would be my favorite, even over sour. And it's frustrating because it doesn't have a good name. I think that's why it didn't sell. Diesel is just like, what's that? Like it's not diesel. It's not Cam, you know, but it's, it's super skunk. And had they called it just super skunk, it would have sold that they called it diesel. So it just never. I'm telling you, it's crazy. It drives me nuts because it's probably the skunkiest thing left that's inherently skunky that you can breed with. And just people just are like, eh, diesel, what are you going to do? But I think I can communicate it here in the right, in the right kind of the right fashion to, to make it really interesting because people know. I mean, people know super skunk here. Yeah. I think they would be surprised what kind of, what kind of profile they would find and what, what it will show them in regards to the new stuff that is around. It's even different. I know this. It's different than European super skunk that's still around because European super skunk, while it looks super skunky, it tends to be pretty sweet. And this is a very early 90s, first year super skunk type. And it's like, I think it would blow their minds. It seriously blow their minds to be a blast in the past. But like I said, it's even in America with people, everyone wanting skunk because it's called diesel, like very few get it. No matter, I could stomp, scream, spit. It don't matter. People ain't going to listen. So I hope that they figure it out eventually. I don't know. Yeah. We will continue to talk about it. And also I think diesel will, the diesel blue bonnet will be one of the next elections that I want to do. It's special. And again, with diesel blue bonnet, because it's super skunk, it there, there's booth in there. There is, but there is straight fire in there too. We did a one called triangle choke. That's a diesel. It was the diesel. I'm sorry. Triangle cush reverse diesel across the blue bonnet. And that in there is some of the most resonance stuff. It looks like it could be a fucking wedding cake type plant, but it is so blueberry jam. Just insane. We have an insane cut going around right now over here. There's just fire. And it has all, it ticks all the boxes for the looks for the Instagram kids, but still is just absolute fire. And whereas it doesn't have the skunky notes, it's all blueberry jam in that one. Which is crazy. Yeah. I can't wait for hash. Hash make a scene in Europe also to find some of it. Yeah. Some of those crosses because people asked me, some of the crosses, the blue bonnet crosses tend to are specifically bred by Matthew to improve, let's say the GMO. Yeah. And it's not to give the GMO a blue bonnet taste. Yeah. It's to improve the GMO. And that's, that's an amazing, amazing opportunity for guys out there to, to get a GMO line that is struck and flower and improved in some of the aspects of the GMO. Maybe it's kind of like it. GMO to me is a great plant. But the biggest problem is that like, it's hard for a lot of people to cash crop because it, it's longer flowering to get it super day that the bonnet is so fast that it decreases the time. And it's a very like, when people think about blueberries, some of them have this blueberry sativa type thing in their head. And this is a blueberry Afghan type plant. It's very cushy and, and very frosty and very dense. So it keeps the density and the beautiful frostiness of GMO, but it shortens the flower time dramatically. Most people are looking for with GMO. They want to keep those chirps, but have the flowering time dramatically, you know, reduced. Yeah. Which, which one would you recommend for outdoors? I mean, for let's say a central European outdoor, this different, that's what's over there right now. I mean, like it doesn't matter because I would, I would probably recommend bubbleberry over there. There's the shortest for outdoor season and because of the moisture, you can handle moisture without molding. And that's so fucking important, you know, for central Europe and all those places. Yeah. That's what I recommended for some of the guys asked here, what do you, what would you recommend for a central European outdoor kind of set up in a garden or a glass house or a hoop house. And I always thought that the bubbleberry would be probably the best choice. Bubbleberry blisterine also does well. Blisterine does real well outdoors and can handle the, the, the mold because of the blue bonnet. What else is really good outdoor? The cherry berry is really good outdoor with AK-47. Trademark Chad, super good outdoors. We've seen a lot of that done outdoors in California. I chose to trademark Chad because of her. She has a long tradition in central Europe. I mean, people do a lot of urban poison. That's why I chose her. Yeah. I think that, was one of the ones that I was like, well, Durban's all tropinoline. It's all witch hazel. So maybe, maybe people won't buy it, but I think it'll make a cool cross. And it turned out like you can find like, not quite skunky, but like garbage-y smelling stuff in it too. Like the way it crossed, didn't just turn out blueberry tropinoline. There's wild stuff in there that you would never expect. And it is super resinous. I mean, it just, yeah, it takes all the boxes too. And that's, that's one of the reasons why like, I'm usually one of those guys who would like, I work on something for a while and then I move on to the next because I have bad ADHD and I want to do something new. Always want to do something new and do its next. I haven't moved on from the bonnet work because it's like, when you find a male that is that predictably predictable for breeding gang, you never want to move on because that's rare. That is so rare to have a male that you can predict how he will always breed with everything. That's the ultimate tool. So it's like, why you move on when I found the best thing that I've ever bred with? You know what I mean? Yeah, that was your reaction. I remember your reaction like that. And I could, I could tell her, okay, this guy found something that checks all the boxes and it's so predictable. And it also showed me the, the breeding goals because I tend to, I tend to not find them in most of the guys out there. Where's your fucking breeding goal? What are you, what are you even? What are you trying to accomplish? Polyhybrid times polyhybrid. So what? I mean, and that's, that's, you know, intriguing. Yeah. I think, I think that's not even a common mindset when it should be in seed making is, what am I trying to achieve? I have an idea. I would like a strawberry plant, a plant that has strawberry terps that maybe grows like, you know, just whatever. And then you, you, then you go from there. I think what plants, what material do I have that can achieve this goal? What can achieve closest? What do I think can, I can take few generations in and mid work it that way. But most people are like, I want to see what happens if you cross this to this, man. That's cool, man. And I'm like, that's, that's what most seed makers do. What happens when you cross this stuff? Oh man. That's, that's neat. You know, I'm like, I'm, I'm thinking I, if I cross this to this and it doesn't achieve my goal, I have failed. And I don't want to release it. You know, that's the way I think. Yeah. Of course. And it's with, the same with running small selections that I do here. Yeah. But now I don't find anything good. I will probably never offer it or never ask people who are no, there's a card. This is something that I found. Yeah. But what, what I wanted to ask you, if I can, is there something that you were thinking about working on in, in regards to a new, a new cross to totally new thing? Is there something that would, where you would say, man, somehow I can't even explain like beautiful art. I can't explain why I like it, but I would love to have it or do it or make it or whatever. So there's a line from Switzerland called Purporea Tichenensis. Or sorry, Purporea. Purporea Tichenensis. Yeah. Tichenenti or something like that, some weird way they pronounce it. Tichenensis. It's from Felix at Alcides. And it's an ornamental plant. It really holds not much THC value. And it probably isn't even that good, but it's a, it's what I call a base purple line where it's a line that has been in someone's garden for a long time. That's naturally purple. That's heavy purple. And that breeds true for purples. That hasn't really been injected into the cannabis pool much. Like it's something that stayed out of the cannabis pool. Like we have Erdpurt. And we have, we have, Tichenenti. That's it. Yeah. Remember. Yeah. Which is also a purple, Swiss, Indica. I think it's a, what people refer to as a, as a pre-Soviet Indica or something. Yeah. That's one of those things where it's like in, in cannabis is for some reason, people decided that when the Soviets invaded, that Afghanis got bad. But I, you know, like I see that all the time, like I got a pre-Soviet Afghan, bro. It's like, fuck you to me. As if the guys somewhere in the valleys, they couldn't keep their seats. Yeah. The Soviets were there. The Soviets came and took all their shit. Yeah, exactly. They tried. Like, like the, the, the Afghani government is trying now, but there's no fucking way to keep it. No. Unfortunately. Yeah. But that's one of the months you would like to do. Yeah. Er, yeah. I mean, I'm like, and nobody's really asked me that, but I think like the first thing that comes to mind is just because it's something I haven't touched. And then another one I'd like to go back and work that I have worked with. And, um, Dutch passion sent me the mother seeds for, and they got lost in the mail. They never made it. It killed me. Is, is purple number one in purple star. And that's because it's a base. It's, it's an old purple Afghani. And it's a very old purple Afghani. And it's, it's a very old purple Afghani. And it's, it's a very old purple Afghani. And it's, it's in a lot of old Dutch stuff. And I don't know, it just fascinates me. I've used it. It's not that great, but for some reason I want to go back to it. And it's just one of those things where it's like, there's no rhyme or reason that these two base purples, because I've always been like, more than anything, I've been a purple chaser my whole life for canvas. I love the color purple, whether it's my shirts or headphones or. I know, I kind of recognize it. Yeah. Everything's purple. So, you know, I, I am, I gravitate towards beautiful aesthetics in the garden. Like that's important to me to go in there and see beauty and purples part of beauty to me for some, whatever reason. Yeah. Man, I hook you up with purple number one if you want some. I do. I do. I like, I have, I have old purple number one regular seeds, but I doubt they'd pop anymore. They're so old. Yeah. They're still sold. Yeah. Yeah. Dutch passion still sells them. Yeah. They're sold in Vienna. I think I worked at a shop, at a grocery shop for time also. Yeah. When I had to have a job, it was, yeah, it's struggle times. Yeah. We all got it together. And so I remember them, them being in the fridge purple number one. Yeah. It's, it's a, it's not even that good of a strain, but something about it, like the way, the way it's Terps are very weird and unique. And I think, I think I could do something cool with it. It's almost like a. Plastic vinyl. Type with milk. It's weird, but. Yeah. Plastic one. Burned one. No. No. Like fresh or vinyl, like a fresh new couch vinyl. Or maybe opening a brand new record and smelling it. I don't know. It's just, it's just a real smell. But it's, it's to me, it's a pleasant smell. Like not sour milk, but just like fresh milk. And by, it's weird. But. Propriet, I've never smelled. I have no idea what those Terps are like on that plant. Propriet, the ones that I. Remember, and the earth, earth, barely an earth bird. Yeah. They were quite similar. They had. A wild berry taste to them. Like, if you, if you buy, if you know, wild berry Haribos. No. Ever have. I'll send you back. Yeah. We'll wait to see. They're, they taste like. Like. Conquered grapes. And berries. You know, this kind of overripe. Berry taste. Or grape taste. A mixture of, of, of this kind of. A. Mustard. You know, you know, you know, you know, that is kind of. A. A musky grape. I like that. And that's our, some people, people would, I think some people today would say it would taste purple. Yeah, yeah, it probably has been anthocyanins and that's what their, and there's not a taste to it, like anthocyanins or smell, but there is something that people inherently smell. This smells purple. This tastes purple. Yeah. And hashy. I remember them being very. in the taste profile and um yeah very very afghani like yeah it's a very early afghani so i want to chase it it's not like i'm chasing a skunky afghani in this case it's more like chasing an afghani that is pretty pure and untouched old world my problem is a lot of the afghanis now and a lot of the morocans and lebanese during the the mid to late 90s and early 2000s DNA and those groups went down there and you know flooded that area with their seeds sold seeds to all the farmers and now like people are all excited that the they're collecting land races from afghanistan from these groups and a lot of them like you see them they're pink and purple like what the f*** do you think this is like you know i mean there's very few purple afghanis like pink magenta afghanis that we know of like there's or pakis there's chitrally and chitrally and like purple number one so it's possible but a lot of these we know we're infected with uh modern genetics and that's what's mostly down there now and it's it's unfortunate but it is catastrophic and it's more catastrophic because we have land race collectors now that are experts online that are only collecting this stuff because they only got in during this era and don't have stuff from before that and now they're breeding with it calling it land races and starting a whole new community of people that think this is all land races because they haven't done the research and it tries me nuts it's like blind leading the blind leading the blind and i know they have good intentions they have good intentions you know i know they do and they're probably passionate people about genetics and it's like trying to explain to them that they probably don't have access to the stuff anymore is like too much for them they know of course we do i have it i paid money oh yeah yeah you paid money exactly i paid money for it this is real it turns it into reality if you pay enough money just throw enough money on it the name yeah now you yeah it makes them emotionally invested in it is what it does yeah i can recommend the people to look at what's his name iria zing ira yeah yeah look at his account and then you will see the real afghanistan the real balochistan um and how the press look there and yeah what they what those farmers do yeah there's been some great videos there um there's a land race selections i think it is he was going to do a view through like go through the fields as they were collecting and stuff but um yeah like my experience with a lot of land race afghanis isn't what people think of as like dense cushions that are super frosty like it's usually airy hermaphroditic like shorter squatter plants but some of them go like fucking 12 weeks you know in the field and get real tall in these afghanis yeah for hash production not for flour yeah exactly only only women and and peasants were uh smoke smoke flowers that's what this is yeah there's enough like women and slaves yeah damn they're still talking slaves in afghanistan no but but they look beautiful and uh i mean it's uh looking to the past when it's like looking at a dinosaur for me yeah and i want to get them before they're gone because no one's collecting perporea ditching energy or fucking purple number one for for preservation no one's looking at them for that and i don't want them to be gone during my time uh at the big production company in vienna i cultivated um the the pulporea one of the pulporea rehingensis the atpali um alpine rocket and i remember that and what was um one more or two more swiss genetics that we got from from the guys who cultivated them in high elevation well um esbin you're referring to esbin hybrids from hell i think hybrids from hell and other people in this kind of circle yeah farmers from the mountains there i i almost forgot esbin and i should say this because he's he's done more work with urtpert and perporea and stuff that i totally spaced if he's a legit fucking dude hybrids from hell if people are interested in what i'm talking about and you can have access to get these shipped in hybrids from hell he's a great dude he's been around forever and he has great swiss genetics so check him out too yeah you often uh uh talked about mefisto genetics because people ask a lot for hey do you recommend is there any that autos that you would recommend yeah and i think you talked about mefisto a couple times and very good uh that that's legit stuff and yeah yeah he seems to be doing decent work with it real decent work with autos and like i'm not a big autoperson myself i was one of the first americans to like bring autos over make feminized autos and sell them like seven but i didn't i don't maybe i'm wrong maybe i'm wrong and i just don't find a way i don't find a way to make autos that i'm happy with if that makes sense i think that there's a place for autos when it comes to breeding because i think young breeders that want to learn how to breed for traits the autoflowers are one of the best ways to do it especially if you get like autoflower dwarves from buda seeds in spain not big buda seeds buda seeds in spain rest in peace big buda yeah rest in peace mylo yeah for sure um but buda seeds spain they have dwarf autos that finish in 60 days from seed and that way you can if you if you're breeding for traits it's a great way to learn how to breed for traits very fast and very fast generations and that's about the most i got for autos is is they're great for breeding and learning breeding yeah people here ask for it and i'll try to explain them why do you take an auto that needs more light and takes longer makes no fucking sense yeah yeah like normal normal autos that take 110 days or 90 days it's like what the fucking point 20 hours life yeah i think it's appealing to people because like they don't understand the light stuff the light part of it you know and that's why i say if you choose right it's it's all regular seeds often tell the people they ask me a lot they are they feminized you have any of the blue bonnet feminized they are regular seeds for now yeah we will do some blue bonnet fems eventually um yeah it's hard because my reputation is feminized seeds too and making the spray the fem spray so everybody just assumes my stuff's feminized but i i like i prefer regular breeding i actually um wish more people would do regular breeding because it's an art selecting males and oh yeah much that way and but there's nothing against them i love them and i've learned it's a just a different tool to me it's just a whole different tool set to learn different ways but yeah i i love regular breeding and i love selecting males and usually like you know people ask me what traits i look for in males in breeding and it's usually their butt cheeks um i like the butt cheeks on males yeah totally you should look for that and maybe smelly butt cheeks yeah smelly butt cheeks sweaty eat it anyway yeah what i yeah i haven't asked you the question and i don't want i don't want to take it on our kind of negative perspective but that's right the one that i asked you remember what would you what would you or what is your perspective or how could you see europe legalizing or having adult uh recreational cannabis and and uh licensed producers and you know the shit that you got going on i you know because people don't have i think people don't think about it often enough what kind of fucking gate gate too early could open you know so one thing that i didn't know and recently i've been kind of learning is that there are some spots and countries in europe that generally care about their people and don't want corporate taking over and want to protect their legacy farmers but it sounds like that is few and far between usually money wins the day we've seen in the us like harper side was the big player for a long time they were the main one they didn't have the money to play they are gone like they you know what i mean like steve di angelo is crying over prop 64 that he pushed it now well he didn't have the money to play so there is so much money going around that it's going to be enough to sway countries enough to buy all the lobbyists they ever need to sway politicians to vote these things in the benefit of the pharmacies and realistically the only way i see i see any sort of a path for these plants and these genetics and and clones being saved and not being lost due to no one wanting them and it costing money to keep moms alive is doing exactly what we're doing one by one people talking to have any sort of influence over their community to have any sort of care it doesn't even even if you don't have influence build that influence make it happen make a fucking make a stink stand up because there's ways like there are countries in europe that seem to care i don't i mean maybe maybe because i'm not there it maybe it's a different story but from looking from the outside it seems like there are countries that are trying to keep corporate out and protect their legacy farmers and that will never happen in the us and just it will not our country's too money driven and corrupt i saw what happened with california but before that i saw what happened in the netherlands with bedrakhan and that's when i was like that's going to happen here that is going to happen here one main source that's legal to grow where everybody has to buy from that's what i see happening in california and if europe's not careful it's going to happen there and you're going to end up with walmart weed and that sucks no choices yeah man that's uh i don't you know i don't want to be an alarmist but that's what i often felt or what my gut feeling can i was like dude this can totally happen here and imagine that she's talented guys would beg for a job in a fucking huge facility just to pay their bills and shit like that you know so i was horrified what happened in the us what i saw was people like not so dog for example or you know legacy farmers that have been doing this a long time they got hit you know when they were when they were on the black market side they got ptsd from getting raided and they got the choice to work with corporate and wanted to have a nice life for their families not be scared right these corporate guys raped them raped their knowledge raped their clones every last thing they could they squeeze the juice out of these legacy farmers and i don't know anyone working for a big corporation that's happy because it's happened to all of them and i don't like i can't think of one i cannot think of one person that worked for a big corporate thing that was a good person that was like i'm happy with this i got a good deal here and it just hasn't happened and i think it's probably going to happen over there in europe the same way the legacy farmers there they're going to want to you know get a piece think they're going to make some money and have a good life and legal life because they haven't had that i think maybe they'll think they'll get retirement or whatever yeah i think you know they think logic or very simple like maybe i also think i felt like an an old football player a european soccer player who just wants a secure job in saudi arabia is playing playing as a captain of the team there getting good you know paid well but has no fucking future and no perspective yeah that's exactly what it is and now all those corporate places that that we're hiring these people they bottomed out money wise so all these legacy farmers that were already unhappy the bosses that were bling in wearing the Rolexes really making the money they're all broke too now they're all done telling their properties they're on the next the next commodity whatever the next hot commodity is because they yeah that's what people should think about you know that these guys will move on they have more money than people all together you know ever have on hand to use in a project you know um yeah i don't want to be like i said i want to be alarmist but people have to be aware of that that will can totally happen because we have a lot of money in central europe people spend a lot of money on lots of money i mean america borrowed money from central europe to start like they you know i mean they started our country like there's a lot of money there people forget how much money is going around in central europe and how important a player it is and i don't i don't consider it alarmist because we've watched it happen and cycles happen and industry repeats itself and i consider it realist you know like a lot of people would consider it alarmist but it's realist i like when prop 64 happened everybody said oh you're just making a statement shut up let these guys make their money they've worked hard you know and i was screaming at top of my lungs and back then they called me an alarmist i was right i was fucking right and i didn't want to be right i wanted to be so wrong i wanted to be the wrongest person ever and i would have been happy to be wrong but i think i just don't see any difference no unfortunately because there's money at the end of the whole thing and there's the same players going over to europe the same shitty seed sellers that failed in in america or blew up in america went over there now because they see opportunities so like you know the aficionados the compounds go over there nobody trusts a red carpet treatment yeah they get the red carpet treatment because they don't really know how bad they fucked everyone in america and why they're not here and why nobody likes it here you know but that's how it plays they they're playing telephone they're trying to catch up yours is yours past yeah it's it's crazy and only time will tell and show i what i hope what i hope this podcast to cheese is that the people in europe realize oh my god there's one of us that's over here that's dialed in to understand what's going on and i hope they all realize that and realize that it's you and talk to you and figure out how to become a part of the solution not the problem there are a bunch of guys already and i'll shout out to all my homies out there who who have this have a similar mindset and i hope with with one of like matt you said like one of those podcasts can maybe attract more of you guys and after a certain time we we reach critical mass what i mean yeah we need we need more people in central europe in europe period we have to have more people paying attention to this and and being willing to be a part of what we do and if you believe in it and you believe in you have a passion for genetics check it all out do your research do your research on me do your research on not so do your research on everyone figure shit out like don't take my work for it figure it out and if you want to be a part of it you know who to talk yeah man contact us is it okay so what's your website my friend or how do people get a hold of you can you can get a hold of riot seat core europe on instagram yep you can contact me there on direct message and we can go from there always and you can also contact me on do you even go cut that's my the name brand the old school name brand where you can still contact me i don't post a lot of permanent content i do post some stories and shit and and funny shit mostly fun i like to crack a joke and shit and you also do live streams too yeah i do live streams i do spontaneous live streams where people just pop in a small form with me and talk shit yeah you can always pop in and ask questions you can always contact us both uh and matthew where can they find you and how can they contact you riotseeds.com for everything that you need um contact me we have our discord um yeah uh riot seat co on instagram there's and do not put underscore riot seat co whatever you do that's not me there's a lot of frauds and a lot of people keep tagging that i don't know why because it's obvious it's not me but riot seat co on instagram riot seeds and breeder syndicate any one of those will work for me on instagram to contact me um is there anything else that we missed because i can always everything you want to talk about oh i don't know do you want to sit at the table with the syndicate check out our patreon and our link tree or description below our merch site is officially live we have all sorts of shirts hoodies and goodies to sort you out and shipping is super and most importantly the quality is top notch i've been saving old designs for years for this purpose so please check it out syndicate gear dot com we also have an underground syndicate discord where we get together and solve old strain history together daily it's an amazing community of learning away from ig and it's an amazing resource for old catalogs and knowledge we hope you join our union of breeders and growers come check it out