 Welcome. It's time for our first hot topic. And surprise, surprise. The return of fuel subsidy as federal government reportedly paid 169.4 billion Naira in August of this year, that's last month, where in September. International crude prices is almost a hundred dollars, a barrel, and despite the continued depreciation of the Naira, the pump price of fuel in the country continued to remain the same. Suggesting a return of subsidy. A document by the Federal Account or Location Committee, FAC, cited by reporters, showed that NNPC is allegedly now using the NLNG dividends to pay subsidy. We have been joined by Chief Okadike Chinedu. He is the national PRO of Ipman. Ipman, they are being the independent petroleum marketers association of Nigeria. Good morning to you Chief Chinedu. Good morning Nigerians. Well Chief, let me just tell you now, I'm going to ask you questions that concern Ipman and questions that do not concern Ipman, but have to do with oil. I hope you don't mind. Yeah, I'm an independent marketer and also I'm a Nigerian, so I think I'm capable to answer those questions. Alright, so tell us how first of all, is subsidy back? Yeah, subsidy is back, but I don't think it's fully back. This is what I call, in my own opinion, what is subsidy? That is why I have semi subsidy, because if you look at the statement, I have a review of the statement of the GMD of NNPC, Karen, he said that the price of petroleum, domestic petroleum products in Nigeria will be determined by the rates of crude oil in the international market, and also the rates of dollar forex, forest exchange in Nigeria. So it will also relatively understand that as far as the dollar continues to show against the Naira, it means that the petroleum product, the domestic petroleum product here in Nigeria will be determined by the price of dollar. So, and if that is so, the new team, whereby the president announced the total removal of subsidy on the premium motor spirit that is PMS, it was also taxed as a dener at 400 or something Naira, you know, Palita, to 500 depending on where the product is coming from. And also remembering that with that announcement and the move of subsidy, the issue of petroleum impolization is gone. So every expenses or logistics incurred in terms of bringing petroleum products to the retail outlets will be imputed in the expound price. So that is why during that period of time, petrol was packed at 500 something to 400 something. And now the dollar continues to rise, and when the dollar continues to rise, NNPCL and some other market also imported petroleum products also decided to be able to review the prices of petroleum products. And PMS was fairly reviewed at 500 to almost 600 and there's something that depending on where the original update is. So with that, that does not also help the Naira. The Naira constitute a nosedive against the dollar. Now in the parallel market, the dollar is almost exchanging at 990 Naira as against the Naira. And if you look at the template whereby this product was packed at when the dollar was 750, it was also for that imperative that the price of petroleum products will also be reviewed. And it will also increase. But now that the thing has half its cost-effective effects on the economy of the country and the goods and commodity and services in the country, and the price of diesel is also going higher and higher, because we are using a lot of dollar to import these products. Almost virtually 60% of our consumption and the services in this country are also driven by dollar. Let me ask you something, Chief. Does the NMPC do crude for PMS swap? No, not at all. They do not. Because that's some of the understanding we have, which is making one wonder why if NMPC does crude for PMS swap and earns in dollars, why are we suffering from the increasing effects? But you are saying that they do not. Well, that is something like a crude swap. Because the other companies, because the market was deregulated, NMPCL as an independent company imports their own diesel. They also import their own PMS. Everybody who imported their own PMS did not struggle with crude. So for the best of my knowledge, as well as crude swap, Nigerians are selling their crude and we are importing these petroleum products. Alright, so what is the respite that Nigerians are going to get? What respite can Nigerians get with the way things are going? I think because of the dwindling and the high rate of inflation in the country, the Federal Government decided to come in a very subtle way to be able to look at the matching between the marketer's purchasing rate and also the difference of also being able to incur an economy. The position of the palliative cannot be able to work because if this continues like this, it means that the prices of commodities and services in this country will continue to rise. So that is why the Federal Government, you know, they just came in to see how they can be able to supply these petroleum products or they can get our refineries back on track. The only inertia to end this manoeuvre is to ensure that our refineries, Nigerian refineries are working. And once Nigerian refineries are working, when you remove all these forest charges and all the rest of them, you will find out that our products will not sell more than 450 palliative. Now, already they've spent 106.4 billion for August alone. And we are seeing that by December, by the time they continue to use all of this money to subsidize, we may be talking about trillions. The sad thing is all this money spent in subsidy in the past eight years, especially in the last administration, could have fixed our refineries. We're talking about 7.8 trillion narrows between 2015 and 2023. As a marketer in this country, tell us, why would you say that all this money that have been used to fix subsidy were not being used to effectively get our refineries working? You are a stakeholder. You know what's happening inside that sector. Why do you think, or what have you observed to be the reasons? And having observed these reasons, do you see Nigeria ever coming out of that darkness? During our positive forum with Mr. President, during this electronic campaign, he invited independent marketers and I was also opportunity to be there in that iterative section, whereby Comrade Adams of Seminichan chaired the meeting. We also appears to him that it is very, very important that our four refineries and our pipelines are ready before we talk about the issue of removing of subsidy. And the Comrade also informed us that the administration has a master plan to be able to remove subsidy without any effect on individuals or on the masses. And since then, we have also been linking to us looking at that magic, the dust-worker stick that can be able to bring in, remove subsidy without this adverse effect. The only issue that we have here is that the president need to come out fully with all strengths and with all specific directive, so NMPC. And he kind of declared a state of emergency on our refineries and ensure that these refineries are being delivered on or before January next year. Whereas we have a very serious problem, we have four refineries and none of them is working, whose amount of service are being paid. And I am aware that the Minister for Petroleum, Henneke Lopopri also visited these refineries almost reassuring us that the refineries will work on or before December period. Well, we are all hopeful as the independent marketer. I also want to tell you, we the independent marketers, we are also bearing our own product. This is a product that we buy at the rate of 8,100,000 for 45,000 liters of petroleum product. Now we are buying the same product at 25.7 million and this is also putting some of the independent marketers out of the business and the cost of mourning is even built into our profit. So you will find that most independent marketers are almost running up. You can find out as you try to manage. So independent marketers have systematic clues because of the huge amount of money being used to be able to buy petroleum product. For you to a kind of 20,000 to 30,000 tons of PMS now you will be talking about at something billion. This is a product that was being bought at 3.17 billion. Now it is around 3.17 billion. How many marketers have such facilities from back? They are able to use that something billionaire to just buy mainly 20,000 metric tons of PMS that was sold for 3.17 billion. Now you talk about the vessel. Most of the vessels that were used to take for 80,000 dollars. Now you can get it for 200,000 to 70,000 dollars as I am talking to you. So the difference is huge with the independent marketers and we that are the return analysts because we are the final breaking of the box to the consumers. All the causes, all the problems, all the witchcraft and the praises normally come the way that are in the box that are selling to Nigeria. They will say your father would do the same. But it is not our fault. We are also facing our own challenges. So that is the problem we are facing. We want to appeal to Mr. President to be able to ensure that this is our referendum working. Our platform is working. The roads are bad. I flew from Abuja to Potakot. Now to move from Potakot to you, it was so, so difficult. The roads are so bad. You can see tankers falling on the road, blocking the roads, trucks on the road. The wear and tear of military vehicles in Nigeria are so so high. All the parts that we use in this country are all imported. They are all dollar driven. So that is why you see that inflation is going so high in all ramifications. It's not only on the petroleum problem, even in electronics. Everything. Indeed, the effects are huge. Not just on you, the marketers, but on Nigerians. I mean Nigerians are buying fuel for 600 naira litre, 589, 757. And you were promised, according to you, by the then president, that all necessary measures will be put in place before the subsidy is removed. Obviously, none of those measures were put in place. And here we are, Nigerians are buying fuel at the cost at which they are buying. Nigerians had also hoped that with the coming of the Angoterofinery, that things will change. But that hasn't changed. Matter of fact, the newspaper today, the Guardian newspaper captures that Dangote, along with modular refineries, have abandoned petrol refining over return of subsidy. I don't think that is correct, because I am aware that even some modular refineries, Nigerian petrol refineries, and what has come to refineries, they are all refining petroleum products. I'm also speaking to you this morning. They are all loading. But the irony of all these things is that how have they been supplied with crude oil? What is the effort of federal government in trying to ensure that these modular refineries get crude oil at naira litre? At naira litre, not on dollar litre, not on dollar exchange. At naira litre, if we are domesticated petroleum products, but the crude oil is at naira litre, the products that we are looking for Nigerians, why are we also using dollar to pay for such a product? Because, you know, hearing you say that the modular refineries are refining, makes me wonder, and would make anyone ask, then why are we still buying fuel at the concepts that we are buying? What capacity are they refining, and which part of the country gets access to the ones that are refining? Yeah, the modular refinery, the NDPR, naira litre refinery, is located in Agoda. And what they are refining is only Kero and the HU. Their plant is not too big to be able to crack PMS. That is a problem. And most, they also have a problem of getting crude, because I have an interface with their management one or two times. They also have their serious challenges is how to get crude to their plant, because most of the oil waste around them are almost dry with crude. That is number one. And also number two is that their facilities, their facilities are not being expanded. I think that Ferragomel would have come into look at those facilities, look at what are Smith facilities, look at those facilities and see what they can be able to do, to see how they can also crack PMS. You understand? Even if it's in a smaller quantity, it's in a lower quantity. And I also want to wonder why what are Smith and the NDPR who also be selling this oil are almost at the imported rate. So what we are all wondering, since they are also manufacturing here in Nigeria, they are also producing here in Nigeria, so why are they not selling this petroleum product, this HU at 900, it's on the very rest of it, as if they also imported it from foreign countries. This is our challenge, this is our market task. But our primary objective is to ensure that whatever products we get from all these refineries will be sold in our filling stations and sold to commuters. We are committed to ensure that we will continue to remain in business because we are also a businessman. We invested a lot of money in this one, this one filling station, and they didn't break into the state of acts that we can sell around the world to be able to sell to Nigeria's better. So we are also committed to remain in business and that is why we see us who will go to that refineries whatever price they give to us, we buy. What sort of meeting has taken place between the marketers, Ipman, and this new administration with regards to this situation you've painted? Well, I think we have written to Mr. President and we are also waiting for a response. You know, secret or visit, secret or discussions with him while he was campaigning, we visited him in his campaign office and what he also promised the different marketers. And I also believe that our letter has gotten to him. We are just waiting to be able to tell him the whole side of the story and also offer solutions, great solutions that will affect this problem. Now, to stop Nigeria from also trying to build a modern refineries with the state of hand that does not even meet all the necessities in Iraq and all the rest of them, these are the modern refineries that are in the world. If you want to hear his things like that, you will see more than just something refineries almost in a stretch of the industrial area producing orders of petroleum products. You understand that? With different prices. So, what stop us from doing that kind of thing in Nigeria? The money we have used in terms of first subsidy can be able to have put, we will be able to put together, be able to put up to three to five refineries in different parts of this country. Do you see some form of political sabotage by people who are benefiting from the suffering of Nigerians playing out here? If you listen to some of my interviews I also believe there is a catel. There is a catel that is also frustrating this issue of deterrent maintenance in the Potakor refinery. And for me I also like, that's one of the top management of this refineries should be learned of and the Nigerians should bring in experts. Look at the Petrocomica that was written of, they came in and as I'm talking to you, they are producing, they are producing to ultimate capacity. So, what stop us from adopting such a mechanism? If so, for Nigerians cannot be able to manage this things. You can have a refinery, you have an MD of the refinery and the MD of the now cannot be able to do anything and you have done deterrent for complete eight years with billions of, trillions of neural and you put, don't give to the deterrent restaurant and nothing is coming out of it. Nigerians are very, very furious about some of these issues and because we are in the Venet marketer, we are the people that break the last call, we receive this insult, we receive this complaint. So, some of this complaint is also what we want to tell Mr. President that this is the kind of complaint we are receiving. This is our challenges. You know, parents cannot, the interest rate is high. $5,000 for $5,000 of petroleum products and now we are all over selling. Business is not good as usual. For you to freeze for $5,000 of petroleum products, you will even take you up to three months depending where you finish the show. And upon that, you pay your salami, you pay transportation, you maintain your trucks, you do everything. Well, I understand that NNPC has laid off some key members of their staff. What do we know about that? In addition to that, I understand also that Nigerians have been calling for the sake of the man there. The top most man there. We have direct dealing with NNPC, you know, NNPC is a company that sets petroleum products to independent marketers. And I also think the MD of NNPC is doing very, very well. He is also trying to ensure there is adequate petroleum products for independent marketers. You think Melakia is doing very, very well? No, Melakia is the GMD. Okay. Because he is the one Nigerians are calling to be sacked. What do you make of the call for his sack? Because of some of all these issues. Because if, as a GMD who is managing the petroleum industry, they will be able to advise Mr. President on the right policies at the right time. Because I believe that this policy of removal of subsidy was kind of ad hocly applied and the repercussion of it is what Nigerians are facing. The dollar that was around $400 or $500 has jumped to $919. The economics is not diving. So we have a serious problem. So I also think that for you to have an expert imagine the GMD that knows his owners and advise Mr. President on the very, very palatable way of ensuring that this first subsidy was removed and the cost effect of the economy will not affect as Nigerians are facing but it is palliative. One hundred back of rice given Nigerians, no one back of rice. They eat today, they die tomorrow. Is that, is it a problem? Is there a problem feeling? If you want to give us rice why don't you even put the money in agriculture and ensure that food is everywhere? What is the sense of sharing back of rice? Is it what we should be happy and be clapping about? We are talking about where Nigeria will be making money and the staff and our school if that will be employing we are making money for foreign companies and the refineries are working they are employing their graduates because of our demand it is coming to high and they are hiring people from their schools and ensuring that they are sending us food products while we have the crude oil here in Nigeria. I don't know where I have water I will say go and buy pure water I will go and buy such a water from somewhere and I supply the person with such a water and take it in the packet and come back and sadly as I told my analysts earlier in the morning it is very sad that Nigeria that should be going smiling to the banks because the global price of crude has gone high is now crying so much like we don't even have crude on our soil. That is correct you can also remember the IBB windfall of crude Nigeria used it so much to be able to put up infrastructures it is a gang situation if we are refining we will export our finished product and also export our crude oil we will stop us from getting more from exporting our finished product Thank you so much Chief Chinedu for your time on the breakfast Thank you very much Chief Ukadike Chinedu is the National Piero of the Independent Petroleum Marketers Association of Nigeria it's time for us to take a break and come back with our second hot topic do stay with us