 Hello, welcome to Toffy TV, this is the Toffy TV Everton podcast, and in addition of the NEDICAM podcast, Cameron is in the studio once again for the podcast. How are you? I'm alright mate, I'm alright, I'm not too bad, a better weekend than last weekend so yeah we can say that. How are you mate? I'm feeling optimistic, obviously last week we were very disappointed with the villa results, and it's funny how after one loss we were, well not one loss, we've been so consistently bad at home this season, but it's funny after the villa game we were like, yeah, Europe's gone now, what's the point? We've created our own doom ourselves and it's all, we've only got ourselves to blame, but then it's funny after our one weekend Tottenham drop points, villa drop points so we got away from them as well, villa had lost Ollie Watkins, I know Liverpool got points but we're still only two points behind them, and then we go and get a win at West Ham which we knew before the game, it was massive, and obviously we sat here and thought we're not feeling too confident. But you still always have that sort of little England in your mind that you might go and nick a win, which we did and it's funny how it's just completely give us this whole new look on European success, whether we can get there or not, and I suppose whether we do will be down to, I suppose our really good away record, which is only City's got a better away record than us, can be either the reason we get Europe or the reason we don't get Europe is down to our home form, or home record all season to be honest, but it's funny how after one weekend our hopes and mood on where we finish has completely changed, I thought we finished the one ten after villa to be honest, but obviously now I think we can, it's down to, if we can get three wins then it's looking good because the other fixtures that other teams facing are tough fixtures obviously, Tottenham's got some interesting fixtures and they've got less games than us, I know I see City as a free hit, but even so I think we've got a really good chance, but we've had so many good chances this season and we've blew him, so I'm not saying we are going to get Europe, but I'm feeling optimistic. Yeah, they drag you back in don't they, just when you think you're done, the season's done, we've lost another game, we've lost another home game, you go away to West Ham and what was not only a massive game because West Ham are doing really well at the moment and have had a really good season, but also a massive game in terms of the league table and where West Ham are, I think that game puts us three points behind them with obviously still the game in hand on Thursday against villa and like you said it gives us that bit of optimism again and just when we all sat here last weekend said no, that villa defeat that's it now. We won't finish in Europe, other teams will pick up points, we won't, we turn up at West Ham and I suppose we shouldn't have really been that surprised because the performance was what haven't done all season away from home, certainly against the better teams and that's going there. In London, yes. In London, yes, we've only lost once in London, five wins, I think we've won more in London, away from home than the London teams have won away from home in London. Yes, because we've turned up and we adopt this style and this tactic which is so difficult to play against and it's just purely for straight teams. Obviously we went with the five at the back, it was a four at the back of times but it was a five at the back for most of the game with Godfrey, Meenon and Keane in the centre back partnership. We had Alan and Tom Davies in the midfield for the first time in a while who were absolutely excellent. Tom Davies pretty much solidifying his position there for me, it shouldn't be any other partnership. Now other than when I'm the like the Corde comes in, Tom has to play the remaining four games of the season and yet we battled didn't it, we made it audible for West Ham. We fought, we dug deep, we made it difficult for them, we hit them on the counter-attack, we took our chance fantastically by Dominic Calvert-Lewin and now we're all roped back into believe and we're going to finish in Europe now. I was going to ask you a thing, we don't play the way we play at home. No, why don't we play that way at home and why do you think the players can, obviously it seems like we're a different team away, we're well drilled, we work hard, we are a really good defensive side and it plays off so well away but why do you think we'd sort of lose our heads a bit at home? Do you think it's because we've played a different style of play or why do we play a different style of play at home? It's been difficult, it's a question that obviously everybody's had all season, why can we go away to Anfield and win but lose to Fulham at Gwduswn, why can we go away to Arsenal and win but lose to Bainliaw, why can we go away to West Ham and win but lose to Villa? I think purely just over the last few weeks or so having a look at it, I think it's a case of when we go away from home, we sort of allow teams to have the ball and we are happy to play that sort of ship back, let them come at us, defend defend defend and then hit them on the counter-attack. Gwduswn, teams adopt that sort of style with us, this isn't the way Everton play away from home, it's not something that is just exclusive to Everton and a lot of teams have done this this season when they go away from home and that's why a lot of teams have got much better away records than they have home records because they go away and they say to the opposition, You have the ball and you come at us, we'll defend and we'll hit you on the break and Everton have got the quality to do that with his at home when the owners is on us and when teams say go on you have the ball, you break us down. I just think we lack that little bit of probably intelligence, maybe quality to break teams down in that way. That was the same problem with them across the park, they went three years unbeaten at home in the league at least and then they lost six on the bounce didn't they? If you look at the goals they scored at home, they were getting beat 1-0 to them at home because they couldn't break teams down at home. I suppose like if you look at the West Ham game on the weekend, I've seen a lot of West Ham fans second the mix, Stoke, part of the bus FC, Carlo Pulis have seen him. But if you look back at New Year's Day, West Ham at Goodersham, it's exactly what they did to us, we couldn't break them down. We saw quite a bit of the ball and we don't have to look at the stats from the weekend, West Ham had 68% possession and with zero shots on target. I was going to say it, it can't be parked the bus FC if the opposition team doesn't have a shot on target. And we have three. Exactly, they've had 20 shots on target and Jordan Pickford makes 15 unbelievable saves. Then I'd probably said, you know what, we sat back a little bit there. But they didn't have any other than the two hairy moments with the Ben Rahmer header and the Jared Bowen shot it in the post. They had nothing throughout the rest of the game so it's not like they come forward and attacked us in numbers, they didn't really have much at all. So it's the way I haven't been playing away from home and we've been very successful at doing it. And I get that the home form is, again, ultimately, you know, we're finishing your upgrade, brilliant. But the home form is still going to be something at the end of the season that we sit here and we say if it was better, who knows where we could have been. For example, if we'd have won all of those games, not taking away your Chelsea away, take away your city at home, take away United at home. If we'd have just beaten your Fulham, your Burnley, your Leeds. What about the league? We'd have been up there. We'd have been second behind city comfortably. So the Champions League would have been done it, they'd been solidified, they'd been in there. But it's those games that we haven't won so we're still going to look back at the end of the season and go, our home form hasn't been good enough. But we've given ourselves now I feel one last chance. We can't afford now. We lose to Sheffield United at the weekend at home or even to Villar away on Thursday. It's not like we can say, well if we win, if we beat Wolves or if we beat Sheffield United, we're right back in it. This is the last chance to lose now for everything we can't afford to go with drop points again. For me, we've got four games left. We've got Villar away, which we should be winning because we know away from home we're a much different team than we are at home there without Olly Watkins now. Even if Jackie is back, he's only just coming back so he's not going to be anywhere near match fitness not to say he's still not a quality player. Then we've got Sheffield United. At home, which has got to be a win. They've won one away game all season, drawn one, lost 15, I think. So if you don't beat them then we shouldn't be even thinking about Europe. And then you've got Wolves at Godderson, which is the last home game in front of, well, five, six thousand Nevitonians and Wolves have had a bad season as well. Win all three of them and we go into City on the last day of the season and you're sort of thinking hopefully it's a bit of a free hit. Hopefully we're already in Europe at that point in some form. But those three are absolute most wins at City. It is because if you look at Tottenham's fixtures, I think you've got Villa at home. Leicester on the last day. The Leicester on the last day is a big game. Obviously Bats were saying towards yesterday that Leicester's got United away in Liverpool. If they want Champions League, that's the most win for them. I don't think we've got one more fixture to play. We've got a game in hand over Tottenham and we're a point behind and two points behind Liverpool. The opportunity is there, but it is three must win games. But hopefully I'm feeling confident that Villa can get on. I know it's that Villa part where I'm feeling confident that they can get a point against Tottenham. With the Arrow good side, Villa, especially at home. I was thinking of West Ham as well. West Ham have been such a good team of season and then they had a chance to go in the Champions League and I think that really had to win the game on the weekend. They sort of let themselves down. I thought we were a really good team. But West Ham have been a team that has been so good at home all season, so solid. To go in and get three points there was a massive game for us. I'm very pleased. What did you make of the situation with the strikers up front? I just wanted to touch on why do you think obviously they had such a good season last season and the goal return was pretty good between them. They played pretty well together obviously with each other as a split striker. But I think they didn't have a great... Obviously Domin had a good game. I think with Charleston was good in the first half. Certainly with the last few games I think with Charleston especially, they don't gel together as nice as we'd like to or as well as they did last season. I don't want to say greed thing. They do like each other. Do you think it's just a chemistry thing or do you think with Charleston he just wants to be the one who texts everyone and score himself rather than lay it off to Dom? I think it's a chemistry thing to be honest with you. I'm the same as I'm sure most people are. I don't subscribe to this. They don't like each other. They don't get along stuff because they clearly do. You know, with Charleston was the first person to jump all over Dom when he scored the other day. You can see it. I think with Charleston I get the frustration with him when he goes off and he looks a bit annoyed and he's sulking a little bit. I understand that but I also try and put myself in with Charleston's boots into thinking this lad is a winner. He's a competitor. He wants to win. He wants to score. He wants to get involved and he is probably sitting there now thinking I've got four games to go. I've not had a great season. I want to at least end it on a high. I understand where fans are saying about the fact that his attitude might be right or he might seem a little bit selfish but in your strikers you want that little bit of selfishness. I get that sometimes there's a better option but there was on a couple of occasions against West Ham. Same reasons. The same way as there was a couple of better options for Dominic Alvalu and to play with Charleston in it was the same. It wasn't just with Charleston not giving it to Dom. There was a couple where Dom could have given it to Charleston. He didn't. I think there's a fine line between being purely selfish and just having that competitive sort of edge to you that you want to do as good as you want to do. I said it on one of our teams earlier on today. I've had it in Sunday League where I've been playing really, really well. I've been winning 4 or 5-0. I've been playing up top. I haven't quite scored but I've known sort of it's coming, it's coming and then you get taken off and for the first couple of minutes you're going to be like why haven't I been taken off? I fancied that there. I fancied myself for a goal. But then after that two, three minutes later you don't like your sound. You're going oh yeah we're winning and it's brilliant this. So I just think, I don't think with Charleston hard it's the fact that he wants to be involved. He wants to score goals. He wants to be sort of the centre of attention. I do think, I think it's a chemistry thing to be honest. I think what hasn't helped them both this season is the fact that they haven't played as a strike partnership for more than one, two or three games this season. Last season, let's not forget Charleston at the end of last season. Dominic Calvert-Lewin didn't score a goal in those nine remaining games. Charleston pretty well, I'm going to say saved that season because we got nowhere but he was the goal scorer. Don was playing off him. And if we'd have had the Charleston of last season or the season before, 16, 15, 16 goals then again who knows where it would be this season. We can't really afford to for Charleston to have had a bad season because we don't have the goals in the squad. If we had, you know, let's say Hammers had 10, Awobi had 7, Alan had 6, Dacore had 7, Dean had 6, Coleman had 6, then you could say right, well that makes up for Charleston's missed goals so it doesn't mean as much but you could sort of get away with a little bit more. Charleston can't get away with having a season like he's had because we don't have the goals in the rest of the team. We simply don't. But I do think going forward for me, if you can play them off each other, if you can play them as a strike partnership, I think you'll see the best out of them and I think you could see a strike partnership that scores you 40, 50 goals a season. Dominic Halverloon's only going to get better. He scored 21 goals this season so let's just say, let's just say for argument say he scores 25, 26 next season. If you've got the Charleston then scoring 15, 16, 17, you know you've got two strikers there scoring 40 goals in a season for you. That's so vitally important but I just think the thing that's led them down is a couple of things really, I think, in Charleston's poor season and the fact that we've had to play so many different styles, so many different formations, so many different tactics to injury through, loss of form and I just think that lack of consistency with the squad and the team and the way the team in which we play hasn't helped either of them but look for me like you said there's a real opportunity to get the best out of both players there by playing them next to each other and getting that chemistry. I think Carlo, David and Duncan Figgs need to get in the summer, sit the pair of them down and say you two are a partnership, you're a duo. You're not one good striker and another good striker. You're a duo together. You need to work off each other. Imagine you've got in the summer you're saying a right winger. You've belted down the wing, loads of pace, takes players on, puts the ball in. You've got maybe a left winger doing the same. You've got hammers in the 10 and you've got them two off each other. Imagine the goals that we could score. You mentioned the goals from midfield and the rest of the score which has been a problem for a few seasons. Certainly the last two seasons we were looking in the summer thinking there was a couple of goals from Iwoobi, a goal or two from Bernard and the rest of them, Sigerson didn't really score much last season and things scored a penalty against Les, didn't he? Yeah. It's been the same this season. Obviously De Corre is one that we looked at thinking he might come in and he might score six or seven. I think he scored three as he. Something I like across the whole season. It's fair enough because he's not been allowed to really go forward as we like as we could not have that proper hold midfielder who can sit back and allow Alan and De Corre to get up to pitch. And he's been off the injured as well. Exactly. So that's for me. We'll talk about midfielders now. Someone for me, a sign for me we need to make is somebody who can, out-of-pitch, box-to-box, cause a lot of grounds. Runs around the pitch all game and can add a few goals to the squad because that's our problem. We're not getting enough goals from elsewhere. We should be at least looking at 10 a season from defence. 20 or 25 at least from the midfield and obviously you said 40 or 50 from the strike partnership across all competitions. So what would be your ideal centre midfield this season? This summer, sorry. This summer going into next season. I think we need, obviously, we know we need the right back. We know we need the right winger. But in terms of centre midfielders, I think we do need another player in that De Corre mould. There's obviously a lot of names being thrown out there. We were linked with Anguisa from Fulham a couple of days ago, Saturday night. We haven't been linked with, but I'd like us to be linked with Eve's Basumer from Brighton. Neither of them are really going to score you an awful lot of goals. I just want a midfielder who picks the ball up and runs forward. He's the only one on Sunday, actually. And I think that was because he looked over his shoulder and thought, right, Tom Davis is behind me, so he'll cover any ground that I come forward. But Alan's almost got the, and he's shown on Sunday he's got the ability to pick the ball up, take it round the player and make a base and run forward. But he hasn't necessarily at least shown this season. He's got the ability to then lace his foot through it and rightfully into the top. If you can mix Alan and Gilfy Sigitson together, you'd have a great midfielder. He's the little bulldog centre midfielder. He wants to go chase the ball and win the ball. He's not like a ducori. I suppose he's doing that because they've been missing ducori. And then they're going to get it forward, which is brilliant. Ultimately he's shown he's come into the team. He was excellent for the first few months of the season. He's 29 years old and he got a hamstring injury that kept him out for three months. Now he's come back into the team five weeks ago, six weeks ago, and everybody has seen people saying, Alan's gone down the pot. Alan looks awful. Well, yeah, because he's 29 years old and he's been out for three months with a hamstring injury. He was always going to need four, five, six games to get back to match fitness. And that's why I'm quite happy and to lot he persisted with playing him, even though when he came back into the team after that injury, he was sort of being ran ragged. He was being ran round by opposition players. He knew he needed that game time to get him back up to scratch. And on Sunday he was well classmate. Which let's not forget. That's not a peak fitness or a peak ability. Offers a lot more than without sounding harsh. Henry Gomez. Absolutely. Or Guilffy Sigurtson at times. Obviously Guilffy Sigurtson's numbers would sort of go against that, I suppose. Guilffy is a different type of player and he's a creator. He's like a hammers, but not as much flaring and ability as hammers. I like Sigurtson as a player of the strikers. A split striker on number 10. I higher up the pitch. We didn't have to run. He's got legs around. He was brilliant. But when you put him in that in the midfield role, when he played against Arsenal, we spent most of the time trying to get back and defend. Guilffy Sigurtson would be doing most of his work in the opposition box. He can score goals. He's good with his feet. Not in doing what Alan does or next to Alan. I think the only player that's shown in recent weeks that he can pick the ball up like Alan does is Tom Davis. He's the only player that progresses the ball forward. He does when he comes back in. He's brilliant Alan. He's absolutely fantastic. For me, for the rest of this season, it's Alan, Dacore and Davis going into next season. It's hard to pick out names because there's so many players that have got that ability. They pick up all up and run with it and can take players on and can score. Ultimately, it's difficult because we're talking about having Abdelai Dacore and Alan in the next season, plus hammers being in there when he's fit and then still needing another sense of midfielder. So it's tough, but we just need energy. We need legs. We need players that can get about the pitch. Abdelai Dacore, he's not technically the most unbelievable footballer because of the energy he brings. It makes a massive difference. He's the most important player in this squad, arguably. Even then, we've not allowed him to play. If you watch him against Watford, he has the two order midfielders behind him. I think it was Will Hughes. At times, it would have been cleverly. Obviously, he had the cover behind him to allow him to get forward and make runs into the box. And we've not seen that from him this season because it's been playing a sort of defensive role so much this season of filling out right back. It's a lot of common to get forward. So bringing another player like him and to be honest, bringing in a number six for me and someone who can sit and protect their back forward and allow Alan to go win the ball like the little dog he is and allow it to go forward. I suppose that's what Tom Davies can do for us towards the end of the season so well. But we've seen links to, is it Bubacari, Samari this week. Samari, yeah. It seems like he's going lester, isn't it? That seems like a done deal, 30 million, but he would have been perfect. A big, fast, athletic, box-to-box player. I think someone like him would have been amazing. But I suppose you have to go and get him secured before the other team, all the other clubs go after them because they are such hide-up on the players and obviously lester went after him and got him, looks like they've gone after him and got him secured. Yeah, definitely. I mean, look, if lester sit here after a player, you know that they usually have very good players. Lester sit these recruitment in recent years has been absolutely phenomenal. Yeah, they know what they're doing, don't they? They know the spot on me, they know exactly what they're doing. They sell their big assets, their maras, their cante, their maguire and just as the fans think, well, why are we selling our best players? The recruitment is unbelievable. They sold maguire, they brought in for fat on it, who's been absolutely phenomenal this season. They're young, go on. There being that sort of step-up club that they were across the park, where we were for quite a few years and we were consistent, we just didn't have the money to bring better players back in, but it worked well for us and it's luck how it's done for Lille as well. Exactly. The top of the French league and Dortmund's been that sort of step-up club for a long time and the light's big. That's Dortmund's philosophy to bring players in. Eiland Hallan knows he's not going to be there in three years. Jude Bellingham knows he's not going to be there in five years. Jason Sancho knows he's not going to bring them in and he makes them a success and that's what Lester have done. Lester have accepted that, okay, we might be a club that players come to progress and then ultimately leave, but if those players, when they're progressing, are bringing quality and are bringing ability, then by definition, we're going to be finishing in the European places. They're finishing the Champions League place this season. I firmly believe they really won the league a couple of years ago. Like I said, they sold Maguire, they brought in Fafana, they sold Cante, they brought in indeed the Tealmans who's absolutely excellent. I wanted Tealmans when he was playing in Belgium. Absolutely excellent footballer. They brought in James Justin as well. He cost him nothing. Exactly. And then they've got the Academy players coming through Harvey Barnes. It was technically a fantastic footballer. So, as soon as I've seen Lester, we'll link with Samari. I wanted Bubacari Samari anyway, but as soon as I've seen Lester, we'll link with him. I thought, well that pretty much solidifies that he's a very, very good footballer. And you know which players from Lester will be moving on next. James Madison, he'll be at probably United in the next couple of years, or Chelsea or someone. Tealmans, he'll probably go off to City or somewhere in the next couple of years. He's a real talent. Harvey Barnes, he might end up going to Liverpool one day. Indeed, exactly. He'll probably end up at PSG or something. But they'll keep bringing the younger players in. And they'll keep being a successful team that finish in the higher positions in the Premier League. I suppose that's the model we have to look at and go, why aren't Everton sort of not doing exactly the same thing, but why aren't we going after more of these? We've seen players like in Konkin, Branthwaite coming in, and why aren't there more of these players? We've passed up players like Ben. Sangari, and players like, I know Lampsey's not been, obviously been injured quite a long time, and Lampsey's more for a right wing back than a right back, but players like these that are young and hungry. I suppose Godfrey was that sort of player, and it's a player that I not a sense about, but it's the same type of player I want to go and see and sign in the summer. Young, hungry, athletic, and most importantly, pace. Because there's no pace in our squad. And massive, physical, big, rock, solid, and moveable. The thing is, Everton needs to start looking at, instead of looking at these, Everton, we know, as a footballer, we can't buy the best of the best. We can't go out and buy Kevin de Bruyne. We can't go out and buy, you know, I was going to say, Lionel Messi then probably called Barcelona probably. We can't buy the best, we can't buy Mbappe, we can't buy Halland, we can't buy that best level. So, we need to avoid going after the players that were probably up there with the best seven or eight years ago. And in the last seven or eight years, I've had injury after injury, after injury, after injury, not really interested in coming to Everton and making us a success because they've already been there. Probably just looking thinking, I'll get a decent payday there. I might sell a few sheets. And yet we need to avoid, and now we're brought in hammers and it sort of goes against this philosophy, but hammers is the exception. You can have a hammers Rodriguez in your team. You can't have seven, eight, nine hammers Rodriguez is in your team. Because there's no hunger. No hunger is there, exactly. Exactly. And that's what I'm saying. We need to, I'd rather go after the players that have, not again, I said this through the week, I don't just mean any championship player, any player in the lower league who is just any player. Obviously they've got to have quality, they've got to have ability, but rather go after the players with quality and ability in the lower leagues or in the different leagues around Europe that aren't quite at that Champions League level yet, but definitely will be within two or three years, 100% will be. Then go after the players that have been at the Champions League level, but in the last two or three years, I've had constant injuries are getting to that age where they're coming towards the end and they've not got any real motivation, any fire in their belly. It's like a catino. We said that last week, what fire does he have in his belly to come to heaven? And Sergio Aguera, we were linked with where's Sergio Aguera's motivation? If he wins the Champions League with City, he'll have won everything with City. What's his motivation to come to heaven? That they'd be coming for a final contract really. You mentioned players that will be good enough to get into the Champions League but aren't there yet. So they've come to a team like Everton, which they did for years, or Leicester now to prove that they can. So like Leon Bailey, he's not going straight to Liverpool or straight to Manchester. Liverpool, certainly not that team on the word anymore, but before they go to United or the City or the Barcelona Madrid, they'll come to a team like Everton on that car, because they'll come and always already at Chelsea, but they'll come to Everton, prove that they can do it in their Premier League for a good team, prove they can do it in Europe and then he got his big move to United and obviously I was just won the Italian League with Inter. So players like Leon Bailey, young, hungry, pace, athletic, they want to come prove they can do it in their Premier League at a good club like Everton, get us into Europe and then all the big teams go down and look at them. It's like with Charleston. It's not been great this season but Charleston, the last season, the season before, you think he's going to go to Barcelona one day or something. So he'll prove that he can get a team like Everton into Europe, get unbelievable numbers, prove he can do it at the top level, prove he can do it against the best teams and he'll get his move and we'll get the big money for him. He's got us into Europe so we've benefited from it and we'll go get the next with Charleston. Well I will put it this way if I was to say to everybody watching would you rather than I'm not going to name names but would you rather than go out in the summer and sign five players who are young, hungry, athletic, got that fire in the belly but I'll say to you now we go out and we sign those five players in the summer and in four years time they all leave no matter how good they are they've all improved but they all leave but they leave with Everton in the Champions League and Everton has a consistent challenging in Europe or would you rather go out and buy five players who come in that have been in the Champions League before but have had injuries recently and in five years we're no further along than where we are now and after selling those young, hungry players we've got 200 million to go get the next young, hungry lot Well what we need to do is we need to get to a position where we're a consistent challenging in Europe with a consistent challenging in the Champions League let's be honest because that's the club's ambition that's what the club keeps saying and then when we get to that position a bit like where Leicester will be if they can continue their form then we look at the players that we've got and we think right how can we keep these players how can we turn this team into a championship winning team a Premier League winning team a Champions League winning team not a championship a Premier League winning team a Champions League winning team we can't go from 10th or 12th in the Premier League to how do we turn this 12th in the Premier League team to a Champions League winning team because it's that you've got to be able to crawl before you can run and at the moment we've got no legs so let's go pair of legs and let's do the natural progression which is bring these players in even if we bring them players in and we say to them five years at the time you might be playing for Manchester you might be playing for Barcelona you might be playing for Real Madrid but in five years time you'll have taken us into the Champions League places and look at what Poch did for a team like Tottenham it was basically when you were growing up what were Tottenham they were rubbish they finished below us they were always around I was in my my early teens but they were nothing Poch didn't come in he turned to get young hungry players you can you want to take that next step up into basically a step up club they got young hungry players Pacey they had talent they played like Cain coming through and he got them into Europe in Champions League and then they backed it up by Champions League every season and I know they didn't spend a lot of money over the past three years but look at they've suddenly they're a super elite team they've suddenly become like a really big club and it's like shock to see I'm not in the top four or at least top six or something they're a big six team what were they ten years ago well that's it it's come from back to back European success that's it and I think it's with with being a step up club we don't want to be a step up club who players come to play and then leave and we still stay in the same position but the reality of the situation is if a player comes to heaven football club does well for three years and leaves the club is going to have done well the team is going to have done well we're going to be in a better position so if you're sitting here saying can everything bring in I don't know let's say Leon Bailey this summer and I'm not going to tell you what happens for the next three years but Leon Bailey moves to Barcelona in three years time that tells me that Leon Bailey is being absolutely excellent for Everton and if we bring in more players like that who leave in five years time Everton are going to be in a much better position in the lead so it's not being a step up club to the point where players come don't really care do well and leave and we stay in the same position for us to be a step up club it must mean that we've improved as a club we've gotten to a position where we're challenging we ever need to look at being even if we finish in Europe this season which will be great it'll be brilliant it'll be dead good and will all be made up that doesn't mean we're a consistent European team let's not get it twisted let's not just think that if we finish in the Europa League at the end of the season or the Conference League that's it then you've got to do it you've got to do it three years on the bounce let's again small steps let's become a team that finish in the Europa League three, four years on the bounce because that's the next step effectively it's no good finishing it this season getting knocked out in the group stage next season and then finishing 12th again it means nothing meant nothing when Ronald Coomyn meant nothing when Roberto Martinez we need to be a consistent team in Europe and finishing in there once doesn't make you that finishing in there season in season out season in season out make sure that and look like I said we need to sign the right players at the right stages in the career with the right hunger the right fight the right you know want to win and like Ben Goffrey like you said the team of Ben Goffrey's I suppose the Europa Conference League can be if we can get that when we get Europa League the next season or Conference League again that's that's obviously our the past three years or the past three times we got into the Europa League we've been pretty awful to be honest yeah we've been terrible we get into the Conference League and we can easily come and win that easily I think the thing is it's certainly the last two times we've been in the Europa League we finished in there under Coomyn and we were awful got knocked down in the group stage and we didn't do much better than Leon I'm getting flashbacks to that's horrible to Atlanta and is it Leon Leon yeah just decided that he's going to just spark everyone yeah and that that bloke in herms with the baby in love with Gladys the kid in his hand so there with the child is that what come on then the kid in his hand it was one of my darkest days isn't ever telling you that because it very literally got to the point then where the players just went do you know what we're just going to scrap because we can't be bothered playing football but even that season like I said we got knocked out of Europe early on all of that joy and elation and you know excitement of the season before finishing in Europe I remember going and watching us in Croatian and Split thinking yes I can't wait for more of these days I can't wait to go away more with Everton and we got bounced in every in every group stage game and even the Martinis season where we done relatively well in the Europa League I think we got to the quarterfinal against Kiev was it in Jamalenko so a bit out of us our league form was drastic it was horrible it was awful so I don't want you to say to me right Cam Everton finishing the Europa League next season you go out in the quarterfinal even semi-final you go out in the semi-final and you finish 13th, 14th in the Premier League but what does that do for us? because unless you're winning it doesn't really mean I've never been a fan of this we had a good cut run a good cut run is winning the cup if you get to the final and lose it's the same as losing in the second round you've still lost you still haven't won it and if your league form is going to drastically plummet because of you because of being in the European competition it shows you your squad isn't good enough so if you're finishing Europe we have to go out and invest to the level where we can compete in both the league and the Europa League or the conference league whichever one we're playing in next season I don't want to be sitting here this time next season saying like Arsenal we've been knocked out of the Europa League in the semi-final which means nothing really and we're probably going to struggle to finish within the top 10 in the Premier League look at Arsenal fans now they want our tether out they want them gone they don't think it's been a good enough season and it hasn't by their standards if you're not going to win the competition then it's not a good cut run because you haven't won it if we go out in the semi-final of it and finish 6th or 5th then yeah go again next season that's it but if we finish 11th, 12th, 13th and go out in the semi-final then has that been a successful season? now in my opinion so me need serious investment this summer either to get us into guarantee us Europe next season if we don't finish it this season or to guarantee we can perform in the league and Europe next season this summer will be massive certainly if you want to obviously we're moving to the new stadium in the next three or four years so to get a good summer against Europe because we don't want to be still where we are going into the new stadium we want to be like we've had two seasons in Europe League or in the Champions League we've had a few years backed up in Europe so we're well the club said it themselves didn't they? do you want to be in the Champions League when we move to the new stadium? do you want to be challenging for the Premier League title? Carlo Ancelotti hasn't come in for us to be a mid-table team he's come in to be back and to take everything into the consistent Champions League challenging team and you might laugh at that now and you might say oh you need to sort out an own record out first and that's fine and these are all the issues that everybody at the club has to deal with the Calvertly and Richard's issue we just spoke about that's something that Duncan Figgs and David and Carlo were going to have to sit down in the summer and say to the pair of them you're a partnership you work together to chance face Marcel Branders are going to have to sit down with Carlo and figure that out it's you know again we don't want to be in the same situation in three or four years time as to that we're in now I don't think we will be either by the way when we're moving stadium Amazon Prime will make a documentary but a mid-table team that's it don't have an Amazon Prime documentary look what it did for it talking to mum with Billy imagine having done an Amazon Prime it will be an absolute car I don't think I can watch it you know I honestly don't I just think you'd feel like you're oh no no too much that's what I mean I just feel like I just get too annoyed there'd be something there that just even if it was like the scams on a match day it's there and I just get dead and we that love watching why are they eating sweets on a match day that's it I love watching the other ones because I don't really care about their clubs or what they do but I just think everything would piss me off if they had anyone so like the top no more they show you the players scrapping in the changing room because you want to win and hours will be like other players it would be like that's it after 3-0 loss going that's it that's it I don't know I'd love it but I don't I don't know I wouldn't love it on another hand I don't know if I could watch it big summer for us absolutely so let's just go and prove our desire obviously we got a game this Thursday obviously we said three wins for your really isn't it and hopefully Tottenham's fixtures go our way as in they drop a lot of points which they look like always drop some points which is possible so are you feeling obviously Watkins yeah out with the ban two yellow cards obviously got sent off a blatant dive which has come by the way come from nowhere suddenly decided to book players for diving hours whereas this has been with Mo Salah for the past couple of years it's with some players and with some clubs it's being clever trying to win a file cleverly and other clubs it's diving and decepting the referee it was a blatant dive no it was it was awful so I suppose that's a obviously last season they were stuck with was a Wesley up from and they had a player like Gwyl who created more chance than anyone but Kevin and Brian I think last season but they finished 17 because they didn't have that striker so going into Thursday I think Ollie Watkins is a big miss for Villa and a big opportunity to go there and keep a clean sheet try and make the three points and that would be because I mean what's the point and even fight for your if you can't beat Sheffield United on Wolves at home especially with fans in the stage and for Wolves but that Villa game is such a big opportunity now Ollie Watkins is out and it's a massive game so are you feeling confident for Thursday do you think we can go and get three points especially after the performance against Westam? I am confident mate I am I'm confident because we're away from home and like I said I think we're a completely different team away from home but I'm also confident because I've got this blind loyalty to Evanton which in my heart is telling me surely we've ordered the ad about 45 opportunities to put in a decent run of form this season after we've won big games away surely we can't throw another one surely we've got to just go and win a game win two consecutive games on the bounce and look the reality of the situation is like you said Tottenham needs a drop points and not made drop points you know your Leicesters your Liverpools your Westam's etc doesn't matter for any and if Evanton don't go and win all of our games Tottenham could lose at the weekend Liverpool could lose Westam could lose if we lose on Thursday it doesn't really matter does it that's what the last couple of games certainly the Westam game have found myself not really worrying about other team results if Evanton have lost because I've sat there and gone doesn't matter because we're throwing it anyway so it doesn't matter how these teams get on we haven't helped ourselves and the same when we win have sort of gone well we've won we've done all we can do so it doesn't you know that is out of our control I think Dominic Calvertlyw and coming out to be honest at the end of the last game and saying basically we're sick of talking about how we need to keep the momentum going and you know we're not focusing on anyone else we're just focusing on the next game I think that is nice to hear and ultimately like you said Ollie Watkins a week or so ago absolutely ran riot ran that defence had them on toast all day and don't get me wrong obviously we don't know the situation with Yeti Mina yet the assumption is that if he's picked up an injury he's probably going to be out which is disappointing if it's just growing it'll be the season now because it should be six weeks we're growing we already rushed him back in it was growing last time wasn't it when he overstretched and he was brilliant against Westam absolutely brilliant he's a ball magnet so there's that little bit of a worry for me but listen Everton again I know Villa had a good team and I know Villa beat us last week but again if we want to be seen as a team a finishing in Europe and a real competitor in Europe then you have to be you know you have to be tasked in Villa the other two games no excuse for whatsoever city at the end of the season can be a free hit but this is arguably you know the biggest and most important game of our season and I know we said that last week and I know we've said that multiple times before but this is it now there's no room for slipping have we slipped up on Thursday I think that's done then it has to be three wins it's got to be I don't know if this makes sense I'm feeling confident but when I feel confident and I think Everton can go nick a whim as every time I predict Everton to win on me predictor we get beat obviously other games you'd think Burnley, West Ham, Leeds all these games at home Newcastle you think we go and win we get beat so I'm feeling confident but that sort of makes me nervous in a way it makes me feel like oh no it's another game we're feeling confident we should be expecting to win and probably go home lose bottle it yeah well what gives me confidence is the fact that after the Arsenal game we sat here on the podcast didn't we and we said it was a 0-0 and ended the 0-0 it wasn't a good performance whatsoever it really wasn't the goal was and they were missing the strike they were missing yeah the goal was shocking that we scored they'll take it but it was shocking goal keeping a mistake and yeah we just weren't great whatsoever they weren't great either but we weren't great whereas I think against West Ham I think we were good I think we defended well we were clever we didn't make any stupid mistakes which we did against solid we out-tacticked them all to me we made stupid mistakes against Palace Tottenham Villa don't go out and make any stupid mistakes Europe's on the line and I think we won it three points I'll probably sound like an idiot now if we go and get beat to a 3nil or something but that'll be down to our that ourselves really won it so yeah I'm feeling confidently unconfident unconfidently confident I'm confident but I'm not that makes me feel a bit nervous like consistently inconsistent yeah exactly there's such a way to you don't know which Everton's going to turn that's a problem to have a really good us or the really really poor us exactly there you go thank you for listening to TheToverTV Everton podcast thanks to Cam once again for joining us from the Mighty Blues go out and check out his channel if you want more videos including live exclusive videos then head over to Patreon yeah thanks very much for watching and see you later