 Okay, Mr. Marshall, I have 635 you have a quorum of the board here. The attendees are moving on in Amherst media is in the house. It looks to me like you're good to go. All right, thanks ma'am. Welcome to the Amherst planning board meeting of November 15, 2023. My name is Doug Marshall and as the chair of the Amherst planning board I am calling this meeting to order at 635pm. This meeting is being recorded and is available live stream via Amherst media. Minutes are being taken pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and extended by chapter two of the acts of 2023. This planning board meeting including public hearings will be conducted via remote means using the zoom platform. The zoom meeting link is accessible on the meeting agenda posted on the town websites calendar listing for this meeting, or go to the planning board web page and click on the most recent agenda, which lists the zoom link at the top of the page. No in person attendance of the public is permitted. However, every effort will be made to ensure the public can adequately access the meeting in real time via technological means in the event we are unable to do so for reasons of economic hardship or despite best efforts. We will post an audio or video recording transcript or other comprehensive record of proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the town of Amherst website. I will take a roll call when I call your name unmute yourself answer affirmatively and return to mute. Bruce Colvin. Yeah, I'm here and I should say that I'm not feeling terribly well and I'll try but I may not last the meeting out. All right, thank you. Jesse major. Present. Janet McGowan here. We are in winter. Present. Has Fred Hartwell arrived. I do not see him. So we'll have to notice when he shows up. I Doug Marshall I'm present and Johanna Newman. I'm here. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you. As if technical issues arise we may need to pause to fix the problem and then continue the meeting. If the discussion needs to pause it will be noted in the minutes. Please use the raise hand function to ask a question or make a comment. I will see your request and call on you to speak. General public. The general public comment item is reserved for public comment regarding items not on tonight's agenda. Please be aware the board will not respond to comments during general public comment period. Public comment may also be heard at other times during the meeting when deemed appropriate by the planning board chair. If you wish to make a comment by clicking the raise hand button when public comment is solicited. If you have joined the zoom meeting using a telephone, please indicate you wish to make a comment by pressing star nine on your phone. When called on please identify yourself by stating your full name and address and put yourself back into mute when finished speaking. The board members can express their views for up to three minutes or at the discretion of the planning board chair. If a speaker does not comply with these guidelines or exceeds their allotted time, their participation may be disconnected from the meeting. All right. Let's go ahead into the first item on our agenda, which is minutes. And Chris, I don't believe we have any minutes in our packet for this evening. Is that accurate? That is accurate. We do not have minutes. We are missing two minutes from your regular meetings and two minutes from your in person meetings, but we'll put our noses to the grindstone and get this done as soon as we can. Okay, thank you. So we will move on from there. So the participants. I see that we have 21 public participants in the attendees list. I'm sure some of them are part of tonight's presentation, but this is the time that I usually read the names of the people that I can see in the attendees list. This is so that those who those attendees can see or can hear who else is in the meeting. So I have I see Alex left the favorite Austin Sirot, Bob parent, Bonnie Isman, Elizabeth veerling Eugene go Fredo Farrah, I mean, Jimmy Hamilton, Georgia Barnhill, Jess Schoendorf, Josephine Penta. And Farber. Lee Edwards. Mara Keen. Emily Rooney. Rachel love Laughler from Berkshire design. Just the name Rob. Sharon sherry from the library. Tamsen Eli, and Tim Alex. All right. Members of the public. Do you have any general public comments you'd like to make this evening at this time on a topic, not appearing later on the agenda. In other words, not related to the library. Okay. So I don't see any hands raised from the public. So we'll go ahead and go into our public meetings. And I believe. So we're going to do three public hearings simultaneously. And these three hearings were advertised to start at 635 640 and 645. So I see now at 642. And so I'm going to Chris, am I allowed to go ahead and read the, the topic at this time before all three have started. I think you can read the topics. Yes. Okay. So I'll read those and hope that it takes three minutes, although I'd be surprised if it does and we may have to just pause for a couple of minutes before we get into this. All right, so in accordance with the provisions of mass general law chapter 40 a this public hearing has been duly advertised and notice thereof has been posted and is being held for the purpose of providing the opportunity for interested citizens to be heard regarding SP site plan review 2024 dash 02 at the Jones library at 43 Amity street request site plan review approval to remove and replace the 1993 edition with a new edition that meets current codes and improves accessibility and access under section 3.334 of the zoning bylaw property is located in the BG general business district and on map 14 a parcel 36. The second hearing to be opened this evening to run simultaneously will be special permit. So in accordance with section 4-01 also at the Jones library at 43 Amity street. A request for a special permit to continue and enlarge a structure with existing non conforming dimensional setbacks in accordance with section 9.22 of the zoning bylaw again in the BG general business district. And the third hearing to run at this time is special permit 2024 dash 02. Also at the Jones library at 43 Amity street request special permit to extinguish previous special permit. So we have applied 1990 1990 dash 07 pertaining to the 1993 edition proposed to be removed. Again in the BG zoning district map 14 a and parcel 36. So we've stretched that out right to nine just to 645. So, for those of you joining us we have just opened three simultaneous hearings, all related to the Jones library at 9 at 43 Amity street. Our site plan review hearing as well as two special permit hearings. And so with that, board members are there any disclosures that you all would like to make for this for these hearings this evening. I guess I will say that I have contributed to the Jones libraries fundraising campaign. And so, I wanted everybody to know that I do believe I can be a relative and impartial judge of the issues that will be before us. Anything, any, anybody else wants to say your honor. I have not contributed to the capital campaign but I have contributed to the friends of the Jones library so I don't in the spirit of disclosure I also think it makes it possible for me to participate in the conversation and vote. Okay. All right, thank you. So, let's see. So with that, I guess we should welcome the members of the applicants representatives. Sharon, I see you, maybe you ought to take the lead, introduce your team and give us your presentation this evening. Hi everybody, I was wondering if you could let a couple more people in. Sure. Can we start with trustee President Austin Sarah. He's in. Okay, just show a door from Berkshire design. There we go. Him Alex from collage. What was the name again. Him Alex a lix. Okay. And then Tony shall from find gold Alex. And there is our team. I'd actually like to invite Austin Sarah, President of the trustees to introduce what you're about to see this evening. Thank you. Thank you to the members of the planning board. For the work that you're doing. It's a pleasure to be here and we're really looking forward to the conversation that we're going to have tonight. I'm again, grateful for your attention. I'm also chair of the Jones Library building committee. And we are thrilled to have representatives of Berkshire design and FAA and collars. Here to speak to the issues before you. So I'm going to actually ask Tony. Who, who from your team will be going first. I will make the introduction and we'll start. Thanks. I'm Johnny show from find on Alexander. And we'll start with our portion first and related to the building and then we'll follow by Rachel on the landscape and site work. So I'm going to see if I can share a screen. Can everyone see my screen. Yes. Okay, I'm going to try to go to full screen mode. Can you still see it? Yes. It is full screen. Okay. Well, thank you very much for everyone's participating tonight. We look forward to our ongoing dialogue and conversation with you folks. So I'm just going to lead you through where we are. And along the way, your questions just let me know. So, of course, we're looking at the Jones Library and it's going to start with first understanding what the changes are to the existing. Historic 1927 28 building. So the way we've organized this is that in these next series of drawings. These are series of elevations and the areas identified in pink are the portions that will be removed. And then you'll see what's proposed. These are starting first with the south elevation, which of course is the main elevation from the front. And here you can start to see that we are posing the addition, which is not that visible from this particular vantage point, which is outlined in those areas identified in the pink and color. So, as we turn to the east elevation, again, the portion that is quite a bit back in the distance that is going to be removed, which is really the 1990s portion. And here shows the proposed addition. And a part of it, as you can see, merges to the right with the sort of gambrel and then the portions that are identified pink, those are sort of really recessed back behind the existing elevation on the east. From the north. This again, the area pink, which is again the 1990s edition is proposed to be demolished. And this is the proposed new addition. And because again, the north elevation adds in front of this particular site. So what you're really seeing here is everything in the pink area is all new. And then the existing is beyond and behind. From the west, this is the proposed 16 me existing. Again, mostly 1990s edition that is going to be demolished. And this is the proposed west elevation that is shown here in pink organizing in place of what was there. And we can certainly get into details later, but this is the extent of the elevations in terms of the demolition and proposed addition. Just by way of information, part of the questions, for example, came up historical review is that when we're replacing the windows in the historic 1927 edition, excuse me, original library, it has single pane glazing. And we are proposing essentially to replace with double glazed, much more energy efficient windows, but we're attempting to match the profile of those windows so it retains the appearance of the windows. It creates a true subdivided light that again retains the grid pattern, but all of these are with much more energy efficient windows that are going to replace the existing single pane windows that are in the historic part of the library. So these are a series of section drawings to the right, and then window jam details to the left, showing the difference between the proposed and existing. This next image basically illustrates where new materials are emerging in addition as well. So the low right photo is the existing image along Main Street and the rendering up above is what is really being identified. Starting with number one, that will be a new synthetic slate roof on the portions that are identified on the historic. There will be the new windows that have matched existing that I just described in the previous slide. We will read point 50% of the masonry on the original library. The new gutters and downspouts will match existing if we do not restore in kind they will basically match exactly what's there in guard in copper. And the new paint will be applied to 10% of painted surfaces as needed for touch up, which is identified as number five. As we look at it from the other view along the Main Street again here shows number one the new synthetic slate roof. The new windows that will match the existing, the repointing of 50% of the masonry. The new gutters and downspouts that will match the existing. And again new paint that will deal with 10% of the painted surfaces of the existing. And it also begins to show the proposed addition. From the backside, which is largely in this case showing the new addition. What is being represented here is that it is a series of various materials. Number one is a brick base, which is a darker sort of cold brick color. We had samples that have been left at the library site and I understand some of you have actually had opportunities to see it, the actual materials. Number two is a lighter slate gray brick, which basically comprises the vast majority of the library above the base condition is seen in this particular rendering. Number three is hardy hardy board plank siding, which is largely on the projecting bay element as shown in number three and they're shown in a few other areas as well. But this is predominance of where particular materials going to go. And then number four will be a standing seam metal roof system and again we have some images of the actual materials in later slides. And the lower right is existing 1990s person that is coming down. As you look at another view this is taken from really the garden view approaching from the north leading to the to the entrance from this side again. Here you can see on the base brick, which is the number one it's the cold brick the darker color. Number two is the slate lighter gray brick above. Number three is that hardy board siding. And number four is the standing seam metal roof. And again, the details about the gardens will be followed by Rachel's description later in the lower right images what is this now. And as we look at materials in particular here you can see some photo snaps of those two materials with the cold brick. Again, which is outside at the library is the darker break at the base. The slate gray brick is the upper portion of that comprised of the majority of the library cladding. The hardy bar siding you can see here in shown in detail. And then the standing seam metal roof, which is largely a matte finish is taking on top of the roof portions of the proposed addition. And here in a little bit more details these are some examples or images of the standing seam roof that you can see in other instances. As we go towards the front. So with regard to the synthetic slate that is replacing the existing slate, it has a it's manufactured with recycled materials and as a 50 year warranty. And can withstand 110 mile dollar wind as well and is warranted to that effect. It's available in a wide range of colors and essentially the cost of it is approximately $30 a square foot installed compared to the natural slate at $45 a square foot. So it's definitely saving some significant dollars while still being a very high quality slate, a synthetic slate product. And another portion that was, I think, I'm sorry, it's taking a little while for this file to load. I apologize for the blurriness, but what was asked for also was just an understanding of what's actually the public square foot is. So in other words, everything that's in yellow here. I'm starting with the guard level on the left zero level zero level one, which is the main arrival level from the front. Level two, which is the portion above and level three, which is in this story is the public. So this is where the public has access to all these portions of the library. And then the areas in white, which is not color, essentially private staff areas, or voids, in cases of double high spaces, which the public generally just does not have access to, but you can see it's a very large extent of library, essentially that the public has access to well, totally 42,210 square feet of this library. So let's take a bit more into the proposed edition. So, what you see in this particular drawing, this is the lower level. We call the ground floor plan is the areas of this color in the green, all of green is the historic 1927 1928 library, and then everything above that in sort of the black and white is the proposed new addition. The outline in the faint red, that is the proportion of the 1990s addition that is going to be demolished so you can see how all three of these relate in kind. Similarly, as we look at the main first level. Again, with the bottom and every place that plan is oriented. So the bottom of the page is facing towards main street. So again, the 1927 1928 historic libraries in green. In this L configuration and then everything beyond that in the black and white is the proposed addition. And again, the red dash outline is the proposed 1990s portion that is to be demolished. And as we move up to level two. Again, the same thing, the other green is the existing 2728 historic library. The white and black is proposed addition and the red outline is the 1990s portion that is proposed to be demolished. And then finally, as we get to the very top levels of the historic portions and levels three down the bottom and level four of above of those portions will essentially, you know, be renovated. There is a an elevator portion that exists. Excuse me as proposed, which my mouse is circling here that is in order to train accessible access with a new elevator coming up to this level from below. So that is what is shown here, which essentially is being added in order to create accessibility to this level. And again, this is a repeat of what I just showed you on the demolition. But again, as a reminder, this is the south elevation, the proposed addition in pink, the east elevation with proposed addition in pink. And just with respect to details, there are a lot of notes here regarding to accessibility, creating some modest openings and some other things on some of that. If there are questions we can get back into, but essentially the big bulk of these elevations shows the proposed addition, as well as pointing out where the penthouses and elevator overruns mechanical screens occur. Again, from the north elevation shown in pink, you know, in front of the existing historic part. And again, from the west elevation to propose addition, as it relates to the historic library to the right. And as we talk about some of the details that were mentioned previously, so it's existing front entrance. And again, Rachel will get much more into the landscape part we are going to make this fully universally accessible so we are raising the plinth access in order to eliminate the steps leading to the front library and just in terms of money, but important details. There will be a book return, which is shown here in between the window jam and the historic front entry, which we propose to be in a kind of bronze copper color in order to sort of make it sort of more dematerialized. And although it's not shown in level detail but it came up in the previous other meetings we will take this particular pilaster here and what we are going to propose to do is there currently this of course right now are shown cutting off the base. We are going to rebuild this portion of the base of this trim raise it and build a base back and elevate that part so this will enable this to create the framework of the entrance but address to the new accessible entrance which levels this whole front area. And the other thing that you're pointing out here in the roof plan. The question and related to mechanical screen so shown in yellow here are the areas which we will be screening rooftop mechanical systems on the proposed new addition, which are aligned here and here. And with respect to what this looks like in these kind of 3D. Massing models. This is the view from Amity Street at the southeast corner. And here you can see where the mechanical screens just barely pops up in is visible in this location here. This is the elevator penthouse here, which pops up to connect to that level. From the Amity Street looking the southwest corner. Again, here you can see where the proposed mechanical screen is shown here, which is on the new addition. From the north prospect street elevation again, you can see where the mechanical screen, which is almost not really visible on top of the existing. Excuse me related to the new. And finally from the north corner of the proposed addition here you can see where that mechanical screen is just visible, picking up here at the backside of this proposed new addition. The details of that proposing is essentially a metal system will have a very fine grain pattern to allow air to fall through, but will screen the mechanical equipment behind. And then finally, this is just coming back to a corner view of the library as seen from the corner on Amity Street with the proposed addition visible here. These next series of images that I'm going to lead into Rachel will now talk to the landscape details and design. So just tell me when to advance Rachel. Thanks Tony. Thanks everyone. So we'll, we'll provide more more of these presentation graphics to talk about today but any of the specific questions you have we can answer and then we also have included in this presentation copies of the technical drawings that we're submitted as part of the permit application so happy to talk about whatever is helpful today. So this first image shows, can you go back Tony. Sorry, first image shows the extent of the property line for the Jones library and its relationship to the abutting properties and uses. The Jones library is a zone general business, but it borders the residential zone where the Amherst strong house resides on the east are the Drake the works and the fire station into the north is the CVS parking lot and CVS area across the street from Amity Street is a public parking lot and Amherst coffee cinema and people's bank, and then pretty pretty large crosswalk that connects the parking lot to the library. Okay, next slide. These are some. I know much of you went out last night and in the darkness. So this is what it will look like in daylight, probably in a couple months from now. The image at the top shows the crosswalk going into the into the library, the historical front that Tony shared with us before. Some of the significant trees to the left in that image actually around the strong house property that Norway spruce and the heritage Sycamore way beyond that. The image at the right at the top shows what is now the main accessible entry into the library so patrons who are mobile e challenge are directed to a different entrance, and that's one of the things that this design actually helps solve and improve for the library. The image at the left in the middle shows the connection from the strong house to the street with oversized Goshenstone steps and images at the bottom show the current condition behind the library on the north side. As we look towards that CVS slot which actually is really an undulating landscape with earth and mounds that are three to four feet high. Looking back at plans from the 1990s it looks like that pathway was actually cut into existing grades to get access to the lower level. Image at the right shows that heritage Sycamore which is a very beloved tree in Amherst, which we're going to try to protect in the project. And the image in the lower left shows that existing entrance on the north side it's really hard to see it's blocked by vegetation terrain so it's another area that we're going to improve next slide. Early in the process we found some historic postcards of the library shortly after it was constructed and then in the two decades since and we're looking at how the landscape was treated or considered. Also how circulation was addressed for pedestrians and vehicles. It's interesting that the parking has taken place in a different orientation along Amity Street. We're headed parking along the main street and that access and parking have been to the east of the building and all those years. Next slide. This is a view similar to what we saw before with with some coloration to identify different areas of the existing site. So the beige color shows areas of paving. The dark green shows areas of planting and the light green shows lawn areas. You can see from this in from the slide. There are two Chinese doglets out front flanking the front of the building that will be retained. Some of the smaller trees around the periphery are going to be removed and two large shade trees in the back are going to be removed. One is actually is thriving because it has grown into the existing sewer line so it's getting lots of wonderful nutrition. That line is not in good condition and has to go and so does the tree. The other tree is where we would need to manage some water on site and I'll talk about that a little bit more later. Next slide. Jess in our office who you met yesterday during the site visit has done extensive detailing of the existing paving materials on site. There's a lot of granite and Goshenstone that we're looking at incorporating with our proposed work. So, for example, the granite pavers that you see in the middle image on the left, we're going to introduce as bands and to concrete paving on site. The granite bench in the lower left will either be used as piers for the rain garden bridge or incorporated in as another seeding element in the future rain garden. Next slide. These are more images of the stones out back that we're going to repurpose several of them will be used for stone seat walls that are in both the front and the back of the of the new project. Next slide. And then this is a summary of Jess's findings on the site. Next slide. This is an illustrative plan showing what we envision the future project to look like. With respect to the property line and adjacent neighbors. So for as a, you know, one of the big, big goals of this project is to make it universally accessible and we're really, really excited and proud that we could make that happen. The next thing that we wanted to do is there's a lot of pedestrian conflicts today on site, where the, the parking area and the access drive on the existing site is really narrow. And to turn around, you actually have to drive behind the library towards the shed that's back there. And then turn around and try not to hit a pedestrian. A lot of pedestrians walk from a CVS parking lot area through the parking lot and drive to get to get to Main Street and Amity Street. So one of the things that we've achieved with this design is we've actually, we've actually increased the size of the parking area up near Amity Street to allow for seven dedicated parking spaces that meet dimensional standards. And then pull into the parking lot, park your car back out and back that and drive back out onto Amity Street. So no pedestrian, no patrons or visitors will need to drive to the back of the site to turn around the vehicle. They will be contained within the front of the site. In addition, we flip the parking. So the parking faces the building. So that means that for, especially for those who are using accessible walkway. We're moving out of the car and getting into the building without having to cross traffic is another safety improvement. In the front of the building. We've introduced a symmetrical sidewalk that runs parallel to the building. And I'll show you another slide how that helps us achieve our ADA so we don't need any ramps or railings in the site we're able to take patrons from Amity Street from the parking right to the main front door for both for all all users of all abilities. To the left, so Southwest of the library we've expanded a lot of the children's per area out to create a dedicated children's courtyard area that has a small fence and shrubbery around it. We have now a patio in front at the main entry with a stone wall for people who want to sit and talk or meet. And then to the southeast between the library and the parking area we have more of a quiet reflective area. We're showing Adirondack chairs that might be movable that folks could come and send me to book underneath the new shade tree. And in the north side of the site. We have, we're introducing a new storm water garden to meet the increased rainfall amounts that we're facing these days. And one of the surprises we had on the project is that we realized that the library site itself actually processes a lot of storm water coming from the historical site property during a heavy rainfall that goes into the backyard of the library and out into the municipal system on North Pleasant Street. So, we're able to accommodate all of that with with what we're seeing from climate change in this area but we've also made it a place for people to gather set reflect which I'll talk later. So we have a working or reading patio on the north side of the building with higher higher chairs and tables, and then we have a little north terrace on the northwest side of the building underneath catenary lighting. So we'll talk about that solid more detail. Okay, next slide. This is a view from Amity Street of kind of what we're thinking with the new landscaping out front. So what we're seeing in the foreground is the new, the new access drive into the library parking now is on facing the library. We have a shrub row between the parking in the library. We've gotten some really good feedback on plant selection from various stakeholders and groups. So what's shown here on the right is Oak leaf hydrangea and one of the comments we got from the design review board is that you get closer to the street along this row that we might want to consider a smaller shrub which we have in our plans. And then addition in that southeast corner is the sourwood tree, which is a lovely native tree with flowers and turns red in the fall will be nice, nice, small, not too big, but only locks of trees not too big, not too small, right a little bit of shade. We're proposing to Magnolia trees out front again there in that 25 foot high range of maturity that provides some seasonal color and interest and really frame the library. Next slide. This is a view from the north side. So if you were standing at the CVS parking lot and looking towards the new addition of the library, this is what you would see. So we have the new to accessible walkways with direct access to the north entry of the library. We've got our stone walls and seating area on the north side of the library. We have the slightly recessed stormwater garden with sedges and bulbs and stepping stones. We have a retaining wall at the border of the historical society property. And we're proposing new trees within within the site. Next slide. These are some section elevations through the landscape this through the sidewalk at the front so the one at the top is a slice through that accessible walkway that I described showing how we're able to stay under 5%. We're able to bring people up to the finish for of the main door so people will be able to walk into the building easily. And the one on the bottom shows the same how we're making that accessible connection on the north side flush. Next slide. On the, on the west side, the historical society property side. We're going to be removing some shots that are there now and concentrating any pedestrian circulation at the, at the existing building as an emergency egress only again that's an accessible walkway with a low site retaining wall. And then on the east side. We're able to provide a 4.85% walkway all the way from that parking lot up at the top towards the Amity Street all the way to the back so now have a dedicated accessible pathway from front to back north to south as well. Next slide. Site lighting fixtures. We do have a bit of a challenge at the site in particular one, we want to, we want to be dark sky compliant and minimize light trespass and be as dark as we can be but at the same time we want safety and visibility. We also have a historic preservation restriction on the property and they're keeping in character with that with the historic site and what's there already on the building so we're sort of trying to navigate these different priorities and and making the best decisions we can. So when we looked at lighting the site. We tried to reference the existing light fixtures that are there today and that are out at the street, kind of keeping character, but improve the optics and the photometrics on them so they will have less of an impact. The image at the top shows through the globe light pull pot fixtures that are in the backyard today, and then the image on the right shows the large 20 foot high arm fixture right up front. So when we looked at the site anywhere where we need to have pathway lighting full mounted that the fixture on the left lower left. We used another pull mounted fixture similar kind of shape and size, more angular, but it's allowing us to introduce shielding within. So I'll talk about this in more detail, but is it does reduce the amount of light trespass and impact on the project. The next and the one on the right is our parking lot fixture light so where we have parking lot fixtures. Again, these are smaller in height they're only 12 foot high, not the 20 foot high that you see at the street on Amity Street, but these will, these are also you know they've got a full cut off fixture. And kind of keeping that character as we move around the historic side of the building. Next slide. We really also try not to have vertical obstructions between between the public right away the public street and the front of the building so we tried really hard to avoid having all mounted fixtures out front in front of the building. One, because that might impact our standing with the historic preservation restriction and to from a, you know, from a perception level, the as many barriers as we can remove vertical barriers between someone and the front of the building makes it feel more of inviting and as we went through many iterations on this photometric plan. It looked like we would have we could not get a, we could not provide enough lighting with just wall mounted lighting and the, and the pole mounted lights that we mentioned before. So we added in baller lighting along the front. So we have this 24 inch metal baller light. It's painted the same color to match the site fences. And it is in the shrubbery so it, it will be less, less of a visual barrier, but it'll provide some of that essential lighting on the front path. So we introduced some under underwall lighting underneath the seat walls that are at the front again kind of helping sneak in more lighting along that pathway. What's nice about both of these is that the light levels are really low to the ground and will be less likely to provide glare in someone's eyes they're walking. Next slide. This is a breakdown of all the fixtures on site where they're located and their bug rating bug is about a way to quantify the light, light impacts. You for in the bug is up light and bug up light of zero means great there's no, no, no up light at all, which means it won't be contributing to the light pollution. B for in the bug is backlight and that's anything that's going behind the fixture. And she is glare anything going in front of the fixture so each of these lights have different ratings of bug. Tony, could you, would you be able to zoom in at all. I'm not sure I can do that on this share thing. Let me see. Maybe. Maybe try control plus. Yeah, that didn't work. Now, sorry. It's okay. We can circulate a copy of this to have to the meeting for you guys to zoom to zoom in. And out but what we what we have done is we've taken the photo metric plan that's provided by the lighting engineer and make it easier for you to see we've highlighted in yellow areas where we have different levels of light. So the darker yellow areas have more, more foot candles falling on the ground, and the areas that are white have no handles no light on the ground. And then areas that are in between or some, you know, those transition areas between fixtures. As we're looking at the site to we're trying to eliminate really hot spots and trying to get a uniform distribution of light across the site. So we tried to keep all the lights on pass above point five foot candles, and trying to keep most lighting within five, five foot candles to point five foot candles. We did have to introduce shielding on one of the pole mounted lights at the retaining wall by the historical society, just to keep light trespass from from crossing over there. So you can see in the north garden, where the, where those three pole mounted light fixtures are, and where they cast light. They do have, depending which way they face they have a wider wider spreads you can see we have minimal trespass across the property line point three point two. And then, at the north seating area, we have under canopy lights, and those lights fixtures will be completely shielded from up light by the actual canopy of the building. And then, as we work our way to the north entry again we have lights underneath the canopy at the main entry. We have about five foot candles in that location. And then in the terrace area under it we have catenary lightings, lighting that suspended from cables. And those are around three foot candles. As we work around the building on the west egress area, we haven't, we have a 13 inch high highs retaining wall that provides that accessibility pathway out. We have integrated wall lighting into that that are downcast to the path only. And that's one way that we're able to get light at the property line. We do have a little bit of trespass there on that side, because we have historical fixtures, the F1 and F2 and F3 fixtures are matching what's on the library today. These are more like hurricane lamp fixtures with no shielding or no control. And that's why there's a little bit of trespass on the property line. We do have, we do have some lighting again, those same kind of historical sconces around that front courtyard area. And then we do have baller lighting along the main entry path. The two hotspots are in are like three to three to four foot candles within the parking lot and you can see how they, how they spill out from those fixtures. So again, those pole mounted fixtures we wanted to have them opposite the library so they weren't blocking blocking views or creating light, light coming in your eyes from below. So the street sheds a lot of light now for the crosswalk, but as we get towards, towards the historical society property and right away it's actually there's zero footprints there. Okay. Next slide. This is a slide showing some of the materials that we're thinking of as in the project. So the image at the upper right shows the type of fencing that we're planning for the dumpster enclosure. Originally this was going to be six feet high from the top of the fence to the bottom, but during the historical society review is pointed out to us that we might want to go higher just to be sure that we're screening the dumpsters from view. So, right now the plans, the revised plans we sent you show a 7.5 foot high fence for this area to accommodate that, that grill pattern at the top and complete screening below the dumpster. We do have a series of short stairs at the front just for anyone who wants to take that direct line from the, from the crosswalk into the main library. And we're using a historical type railing for that that would require a variance from the MAB, but we've been able to get those variants at Amherst College and other institutions in the area. The railing in the middle right in the middle top is the type of railing that we'll be using on the top of the retaining wall at the back, and also the type of railing that we'll be using around the children's area. In the children's area this will have a four foot high evergreen shrub in front of it so it's more for for safety than anything. So we're integrating the goshen stone into walls and benches, and the image on the upper left is our idea of the rain garden crossing. That's the change in materials, let the water through and sort of express those stormwater connections. In the children's area we're looking at using stamps in the concrete of 12 birds of Amherst, their, their feet patterns and their shape and their feathers. There are things that that kids could color in with crams. But again it gives that a little bit more texture to the courtyard area. Next slide. We have two working tables in the back, we're thinking pops of color be fun. Different working table heights for kids for people with who might be in wheelchairs and then people who might want to have a higher height. So the mix of those tables and colors. We're providing bike racks on site. So we have four racks in the front and four racks at the back, increasing bike storage and allowing for up to 16 bikes on site. And then the image in the center of the bottom one is the repurposed stone benches that we have in both the front and the back. Next slide. This is a more detailed study of what that north terrace with the catenary lighting might be like. We're proposing a unitized paver walkway that extends out towards the north towards CVS. And between that and the pertaining wall, introducing crushed stone seating areas with moveable chairs, the catenary lighting and climbing vines like climbing hydrangea or clementis. Next slide. This is a cross section of that area on the image on the left is the new, the new proposed addition. That terrace area and the retaining wall and the image on the right shows an elevation of what you would be looking at when you're looking out from the north side of the library at that wall. We do have some oversized terrace steps on the left, which connects someone up to the historical society property, but also provide additional program seating area that you know someone could go with a book, maybe a cushion and read, read outside. Next slide. While planting palettes for the project we thought a lot about the character of the historic front and how we might end the character in the back and the new addition and how we might celebrate those differences while creating a uniform palette. Up front, we're, we're trying to use a refrain palette of very few colors. The yellow magnolia will be a splash of color, but for the most part we're sticking with dark greens, light purples and whites. Next slide. And then in the back, we heard feedback from many stakeholders that safety is a big issue there today, it's a big challenge, having sight lines through visibility, having connectivity to the historical society property as well. And then ease of maintenance. So we thought about all these things. We looked at what we could do in that ground plane. What we could plant that would be able to handle the stormwater be able to keep things open have some interest and be easier to maintain. And then we looked at a combination of sheet moths and Carracks, which is a type of looks like grass but you don't have to mow it. And bulbs, minor bulbs to create carpets of different shapes and sizes and forms in the in the garden. Next slide. So this is an enlargement view of the front planting area. The left is the children's courtyard area, where again we have the evergreen cutting hands, white shrub. It's nice because it kind of has that more traditional New England kind of feel to it. It blooms prolifically with white flowers in the spring, and kind of has soft softer edges it's not something that we would be trimming. It would be allowed to take its original form. And it's very well behaved it doesn't get any higher than four feet so it won't block off views and but it will also be a nice nice border plant. We've integrated the Chinese dogwood into that planting bed, and then the sour wood tree which I mentioned before, which can provide a shade for people who want to read in the front. We have two buttercup magnolia trees on center with the library, and then the oak leaf hydrangea between the parking area and the sidewalk, and, and the erronea and the dwarf erronea between the walkway and Amity Street. Next slide. And then this is an enlargement of the area at the north the storm water garden. We have, you know, we're creating a bowl now. And so where things were raised up with the past cut through we're actually cutting down a giant three, three foot bowl in the in the back to be able to store the amount of rainwater that is anticipated in our area. In that area we're also repurposing some of those stones that from site to create stepping stone paths that wind through the rain garden, and that will create with larger boulders and repurpose granite found on site. More seeding areas in the garden. For our trees, we're going to plant to swamp white oaks, we originally had a, had a, had a willow oak, which are really lovely, but we got good feedback from the shade tree committee that they don't tend to do so well in Amherst, even though they do well in North Adams. So we are, they advised us that we might want to plant to swamp white oaks those trees will do really well with climate change there well southern adapted and northern adapted and can handle the drought conditions and the water conditions that we think this area will be subjected to. So we're going to have some fringe trees for understory trees along the CVS border to the dumpster for them. And then we're proposing a sassafras tree closer to the library, again, a good native and one that can handle incoming climate change challenges that our landscapes are going to face. Okay. Next slide. So let's go up to the couple more slides Tony. These are these are the plans that were submitted in the package that you received. And then this is a new plan that again we have some really good feedback from Bob parrot, and from Guilford and DPW about how we what the logistics might look like during construction and how we might want to guide the contractor and and making, making this work. This logistics plan, which we submitted in our updated package to you. We're showing construction fencing around the perimeter of the library property. We are showing closure of the of the parallel parking spaces out front of the library in the right away. And redirecting the bike lane, we're also showing fencing around the bike lane. We're installing signage indicating that the bike that bikes and vehicles have to share the lane of traffic. We've introducing site signage to indicate that sidewalks are closed. We're introducing signage across the street from the crosswalks and up at the corners, letting people know that sidewalks are closed ahead. We're another thing that we found out in this process is that the, the Drake's emergency exit is exits onto the library property. We found that it's important to maintain throughout construction. So our construction fencing creates a passageway for those individuals that they were to need to leave the building. So they have their own five foot wide soft sidewalk area that's fenced and protected from the construction with an exit only gate to prevent people from congregating in that alleyway. And we are looking at the possibility of if there were because the existing library is so close to the property line that the historical society is within a foot of the property line today. We're actually going to be improving that condition. We will be in some cases 10 feet, eight and 10 feet away from the property line, but the anticipate the contractor will need to be able to get some equipment in that area to be able to take down the addition and to bill new. So we did meet with Alan Snow, the tree warden on site and how to protect that Norway maple, sorry the Norway spruce, and the heritage sycamore, and where this plan shows show this area is a area that's not to be not to be the exclusive permission from the historical society, and that if it is they have to have to use the wood cribbing to protect the roots and spread the way out. All the gates will open into the site so as to not cause issues with oncoming traffic. And, and all the gates will have nox blocks also for coordination with the fire department and these departments. So we're just out to PBTA about where the bus stop that's currently in front of the storm house would be located and currently they're thinking they might actually just discontinue it for during the construction of the project. Because the library is anticipated to not be occupied during the construction and the nearest bus stop is 700 feet away. In that case, though, we would not be really hating those last stop we would just be discontinuing the one and out front. I think. I think that's the main body of our presentation. Happy to answer questions or go through more the plans and detail. Right. Thank you, Tony and Rachel. We usually take a break around eight o'clock. So why don't we have some initial questions from board and plan to take a break around that time. We can continue the discussion afterwards. I want to start by calling on Janet. I believe when you were talking about the site lighting. Janet had her hand up for a while. Would you like to ask a question about the lighting? Um, actually, um, I have a print out of the lighting plan and then I tried to enlarge my screen to 300, whatever that means on my computer and I, there's just no way I can decipher the little tiny letters and numbers. So I don't know if you can give us a bigger, better copy. I don't know if it's what I can't see, but I can't see any. I think sometimes I saw what I thought was a letter, but I just. All right, I see Chris's hand. Maybe she knows. Maybe so we, we have a large. Gosh, I think it's 24, 24 by 36 or possibly bigger than that image of this lighting plan. And I would be happy to show it to members of the planning board. Karen came in and looked at it yesterday. So we do have that available for people who want to come in. It's really quite big and you can read the numbers pretty easily. Thank you. All right. Well, I, you know, I wrote down half a dozen questions along the way, but I'm sure some others did. So this is the time to start asking. Bruce looks like you got your hand up first. Yes. Thank you, Doug. I've got quite a few questions, but I'll start with four that are essentially questions of clarification, I think. And the first of those is I noted that the drawing calls for or synthetic slate on the roof of the existing existing library. Is this the synthetic slate that has been around for a while that involves a recycled rubber car tires, that sort of thing, or is this a different type of synthetic slate. Tony. Josephina, you also on deck here, in terms of the specs. Yeah, this, this, we're looking particularly at eco stars. We've used that on a number of projects in our firm. And it has been around for a while. And, and you are correct. That's probably the similar to what you're referring to. Is it a petroleum product or is it a sort of mortar based or concrete based product. We could confirm and get back to you more like most likely it's a, I don't want to say petroleum, but it's, I don't think it's mortar based. So we can get the specs to you that has all of the information behind it. I had, I've had this I think this product along with majestic slate and a few others on my house some up to 30 years and it's holding up quite well so I don't have any concern about this I just wanted to know whether there was something else out there that might have a shorter track record so thank you for that. And the, on the elevations, you showed the white. Sorry, you showed the darker. As a band is number one, and the wider band. The wider lighter colored breakers number two, but between the two, there's a, there's a white band and that's not mentioned and could you enlighten us as to what that is. And we're looking at areas craft for that white band. That's also that sample is also at the library as well, along with the bricks. And what is the say again what it is. Eris craft. Is that a stone. Is it an architectural precast stone. Yeah. Okay. Let me write that down. Then moving on. Oh, when you showed us the close up of that one and two. It looked like the, the mortar between the coal brick is whiter, and the slate gray is different color. On the board that you have in Sharon's office. Both mortar appears to be the same. So my question is, which, which, which is the more current this one or what's in Sharon's office. What's insurance office tomorrow is the same. Okay. And finally number, the next one is. Probably for Rachel the, the, the, the, you took us down the driveway on the east side and the big tree there that's kind of near where the dumpster where the electrical vault is. It said existing to remain. And at the site visit last night, I understood to be told that it would be coming down. So obviously I would like to know which. What made Tony what may be helpful is to go to the, the technical plans at the back to the demolition plans. I think it's the third. Fourth plan. It's planning. Yeah, it's going to take a while because there's a big file. So it may take a second to load up just tell me when. Oh, there we stopped there. Okay. Thank you for your question. The, the rectangle in the, in the, in the corner there. That's the shed. Yeah. The left of that is a maple tree that's going to remain so that'll be protected. If we encounter roots, they'll be root pruned by a certified harvest and air spated if needed. The tree just below that is the one that's growing into the sewer line. And the one to the upper left of that is the one that's in the stormwater basin. Yes. I'm talking about the one that is down lower further to the south down the driveway and exactly on the eastern boundary. First of all wanted to know whether it was. Our tree so to speak. It's, well it's, it's that one there. It says it says existing to remain, I think just there. Yeah. And, and then we were told last night that that tree was going away at least that's what I understood so maybe I misunderstood but I just just want clarification that's all. Yeah, that's a, that's a pen oak. We did review it a lot with Allen on site. It is one that probably could survive a lot of impact roots. On the, I think to a slide from now. You go down to anyone worse line, another slide. We're showing currently we're, we're showing protecting it so. Okay. We're going to do our best. Yeah, we're going to do our best to keep it. And Doug, if I may have one more question. This is a question, not a, not an item of clarification. So there are two trees that are going to be taken down and they're huge, huge oak trees with quite long straight trunks, unbroken without branches or anything on them. And when I look at trees like that I think boy that tree has got a lot of good wood in it. So my question is, is any thought being given or with any commitment to be made to to take those trees out. Perhaps cut them into I don't know what lengths 1620 foot what have you, and then cause them to be moved to a mill such as Wagner's for example, and then used for the project or by somewhere else but it seems to me that these trees would yield a really. I don't know I've done a bit of milling before with with band mills and so forth and guessing maybe 1000 board feet of pretty high quality port of sawn oak and I thought that that's quite a valuable and quite useful for cabinet grade lumber and I wonder whether thought has been given to directing it in that way. So, Rachel and Tony should I take from the silence that no one has been thinking about that. I would guess I would guess your whoever ends up being your landscape contractor is likely to think about that. Yeah, we would love for them to be repurposed. We don't currently have that in our bid document contracts because that could involve hiring another contractor. If you know of anyone who would be interested in collaborating with the with the contractor on sourcing that that would be wonderful. That's a good answer. I guess the other thing that occurs to me is it often takes some number of months to season would. And so using it on this project may not be feasible unless you are able to cut it down well in advance of the start of construction. I think it might receive kill and drying to accelerate that it seems to be such a high quality potentially high quality product that it might be worth doing that. I mean I'm way at the edge of my understanding of this topic I just asked. So, Rachel's answer is a good one. I'll see if I can find from my sources anybody who can enlighten me as to the weather. The way in which something like this might happen and if I find anything out, I'll get back to you. Thank you. All right, Bruce. Are you all set for now. Good. Now I am. Yes, thank you. All right, Johanna. Great. Thanks so much. Really appreciate the presentation. I had really two questions that both relate to the lighting plan. First of all, I just, I really appreciate the thoughtfulness you're giving to reducing light pollution on the site and onto surrounding sites as much as possible. And one question that I had was have you considered having motion activated lights. My second question is, as you were going through the light exposure on the site I was struck by how relatively much light there is in the rain garden. And given what we know about the impact of constant light on insects that are likely to, you know, make that rain garden home. Yes, I would just encourage you to explore options to keep the lighting more on the path and not spilling over into the rain garden as much. Those are my thoughts. Thank you. All right, Janet. Just to go to try to stay on topic. I was wondering what the, you know, I don't know what the lighting numbers are but what the lighting plan is because we, you know, in our bylaw required that lighting be downcast and shielded and turned off when the business is not in operation. On the other hand, that back, you know, that's a cut through area from the CVS lot to Main Street, and I wondered what it what's the plan for when lights are on and when lights are off. So that's one question about lighting. I thought the Bollyards in front of the Jones in the old section just seem really dissonant for the kind of very historic look and I wonder if there's something. If there's some kind of lighting Bollyard that doesn't look super modern like those ones that you had. And then another lighting thing is I thought the west side of that really doesn't need that much lighting because really there's no use to this unless people are coming in through the door. I just thought it'd be, you know, darkness on that side would be really beneficial I think to the strong house and it's traditional setting. Oh, can I also just throw in since it's vaguely related. I was just wanting to like, if we could walk through how someone walks through from the CVS lot to Amity Street like they're going to there's not like a separate lane from traffic or backing cars. So that was a question I had. Rachel. I wonder if I could share screen with the line Tony would that be all right. Let's see if we can. I can do this here. You see this now. Yes. Yes. Okay. So, to the question about the rain guard and one of the comments that we got from the design review board was they were very concerned about having this well illuminated from from the CVS lot to the north entry the library. There will be a lot of after hours programming in this area. So making sure that we have a good illumination from the CVS lot to the back of the building be really important. I believe currently the plan is that the lighting would follow the hours of operation of the library and if we need to make adjustments to that based upon your observation. I think Janet that's a great one about how this would might be used. Even after hours of something that we can, we can talk about and love sharing to weigh into that conversation too. But at the back. So what we've done with those poll mounted fixtures these a fixture here a fixture here a fixture here. Those are the poll mounted top fixtures. We are spreading light along the pathway here and here and here. And that does get us above that point five foot candle. Do the nature of the lights it's a little bit brighter it's three feet when it's closer to the light pole, but then it dips down about 1.5. So some parts of the rain garden or 0.3.7. But the inner area is brighter as Joanna noted. Then as we get closer to the building. We have the F six series, and these are canopy mounted lights so they're recessed into the canopy that's overhanging this area. And that gets us around to two to three foot candles. Pretty uniform lighting around this, this whole area. And then we drop down to 0.5.3. And again, it's most bright at the entry to the north and the catnary lighting on the suspended cable lights are here. So someone coming from part from the CVS slot would And to the north entry after hours could come straight down through this well let path there may be some lights village from the library itself from these public spaces is nice wonderful big windows. And then entry here. And then people who are trying to use the library as a cut through would come through this well it path as well that area around the corner of the building. We have some wall packs here, the F five series along this side of the building, providing that illumination above 0.5. We have another whole mounted site fixture. Again, this is the one with the top limit. We do have hotspot here. The reason why it's so high is that we were trying to get the spread to to illuminate the path for wider range. We do have some building mounted fixtures here that are more of the historical size. We have a wall pack on the back of the dumpster area so the dumpster areas well illuminated as well for safety after hours, or during darker times. And then we have canopy lights underneath the canopy. This is actually becoming more of a service entry so if deliveries, but this would not be used by the public. And then we have the two light fixtures in the parking area. So, from about a little over three or four down to about one candle, so it's pretty uniform. So if you were coming from, from the CVS parking lot to get to the front of the building, you could either come through, go through the building and come out, come out this side using the elevator or stairs. Or you could come through this walkway up along the service walkway, which is sized for DPW trucks if they need to access anything in the back, but come through here and then walk around and a sidewalk. And then folks from the front along Amity Street, you're coming from Main Street or the Common, you can walk along here into the library, or if you're coming from points west, you could come along Amity Street and walk in, walk in here. As far as the egress area here on the west. This is an emergency egress. So we have all recessed wall lights in the wall itself with one hotspot here. And then we do have a little bit of light trespass on the west side and these are mostly from the historical fixtures, the F2 and F3 that are causing a little bit of heat. These are the baller lights that you were saying that are more contemporary. And then these are the seat wall lights that are underneath the wall. And we'll scroll on over to this part. So each of these lights, our lighting designer has identified with each litter for the light fixture. It's bug rating. And for example, all of those post-mounted top lights, the A series, they have a zero up light, so they're definitely full cut off, but some of them have various amounts of glare. And so then, let's see, so these are the images of the existing lights, the character that's on the library now that we're preserving. And of course, don't meet the current standards that we're trying to achieve with lighting, but they do have a historical value that we're trying to preserve. And then the F5 series are the wall mounted lights that are in the back of the site on the contemporary edition. And the F6 are the lights that are recessed underneath the canopies that are not visible that help the canopies act as full cut off. Let's stop sharing, Tony. I'll let you let you go back to sharing. All right. Thanks, Rachel. Janet, did you have more questions or did that address your questions for now? Janet, you're muted. Sorry, those are just questions I had about the pathways and the lighting. Okay. All right. I don't see any more hands. I'll ask a couple of clarification questions. On the site plan, you've described the parking that's off of Amity Street. And I wondered how far back or how far north you customarily expect vehicles to be, particularly since that seems to be a primary pedestrian cut through around the building. So at what point as a pedestrian, do I need to be concerned that there would be vehicles? That's great. We're using on the site. That's great, Tony. That's a perfect one. On the site plan, we are marking where the pedestrian zone really begins and ends with unitized pavers in the parking area. So that's kind of an indication that the parking area is on one side and that you're entering a new zone. That plus the dumpster and the change of materials. So the parking area is asphalt and then the walkway is concrete. So I think those, those three or four things together kind of will help code that you're in, you're in a pedestrian, you're in a different zone. The closure will kind of act as a, as a, as a narrowing. And then we will have signage also for, you know, no vehicles beyond this point. But then, then we also have the queuing of the unitized pavers in the service area. So from the point of view of the daily operation of the library, there's no need for delivery or service to go beyond that change in pavement. I'm ready to go beyond the dumpster enclosure. I think if we did have a service truck, like a, like a box truck of some sort or a van. They could pull beyond the unit pavers into that zone between the unit pavers in the dumpster area. And then when the dumpsters do come and pick up trash, they would, they would drive up to the dumpsters. And then they would take the dumpsters and empty the dumpsters in their container. Okay, so I was just concerned about things like the interlite library loan truck and, you know, whatever happens on a normal day. Okay, so then, second of all, the ornamental trees you have around the front of the building are in your renderings they're, they're small and they're ornamental. Are there any species that will stay small or will they eventually get too big and dwarf, you know, or obscure the front of the building. That's great we had some really good feedback from multiple people on the tree selection so we've had input from the tree committee, some members of the gardening committee. So the Magnolia tree and the Sarawood are not going to dwarf the front of the tree, the front of the building. Okay. And then the last question I guess, yeah, I guess it would be you guys that could enlighten me about a historic preservation restriction that's on the, whether it's on the building or is it on the property. And being more of a modernist myself, I just wondered whether you, you were really prohibited from having more contemporary fixtures on site or not. It extends to both the property and the building. So any, any landscape improvements have to go for review by the historic commission under the preservation restriction. So is it really up to the historic commission. If, if, if tonight they're feeling like contemporary fixtures are okay they might approve that or, or, you know, they would consistently say you need to have a circa 1925 fixture on that property. And the National Park Service outlines of nine different points of criteria that we should use when undertaking a project like this. And one of the tenants is both to preserve what's there in character, but not try to emulate it exactly. So there's, there's language that suggests that contemporary fixtures are excess acceptable on the property, as long as they, you know, as long as they're not trying to be to be the same. So it's a bit of a, it's a bit of a understanding what you're protecting and then also being really clear about what is new. And a lot of that interpretation and evaluation. I believe in Christine and Nate and advice I believe that is often under the historic commission's purview. Okay. Thank you. Bruce, why don't we get to your questions and then we'll take a break. Just one question, Doug, and it's just to follow up from your observation which I had as well it's another one of my on my list here, but a good time to ask it I think I to looked at those f one f two f three and f four fixtures and had more or less the same reaction I think to you. It seems to me that we are, you know, this, we've had 100 years of lighting technology improvement and I would hope that we could benefit from that on the project and particularly I think it's been clear for years that these kind of lantern lights hung and adjacent to doorways are kind of atrocious leak area they're very uncomfortable to walk into and. And so I would wonder whether and why we couldn't create them either on the building and have them wash the wall below them, or use whether a canopies porches and so forth. Simply install them into the ceiling plane of the porch. Because it seems to me that this is going to be a fairly disagreeable experience for people who are approaching these entrances at night, and I would love to think that I wouldn't be confronted with glaring light fixtures, just because that's the way they were 100 years ago. Can we can we can you move the ball forward on that. I'm not sure you addressed that to Bruce. I, I guess it's to find called Alexander, but I'm not sure because, yes, I think there lights off the building all these affixes look like they're building mounted illumination and, and I whoever is more familiar with the US the restrictions of the historic preservation order. I mean, I know that the sacred standards can be unreasonably. Unreasonably present in this way. So I'm not necessarily expecting that common sense can prevail here, but it would be nice if it could, and we could take advantage of what we've learned over the years. All right, I see Nate's hand maybe he's got a comment about that. Sure. Yeah, I think Rachel summarized the restriction pretty well so you know the library has received CPA funds on a number of occasions and so there's a preservation restriction. You know, approved by the Massachusetts Historical Commission and the review is local when there are changes and so the restriction has guidelines in terms of what's under review it's everything in the landscape to changes in the building. It's really dealing with the exterior of the site, both proper, you know, site and building and so they have guidelines in terms of what is considered major minor alterations and when that needs to be reviewed. So like a removal of mature trees or landscaping needs to be reviewed, lighting changes to buildings demolition changes in material. In this project, you know the National Park Service has four categories in terms of historic preservation, you know if it's rehabilitation strict preservation restoration and so this is a rehabilitation project and it does allow for modern materials or you know modern additions and so some of it is balancing you know what does that mean and where you know how does that how does that apply. And so, you know the chair of the Historical Commission attended a workshop on this and said you know they said for instance this rear addition that's happening. It actually is better if it uses modern material and takes on modern form. Because it is it's a it's a modern addition it would be really unless you're going to really make it look exactly like it was built in 1927. It could actually look like a cheap imitation and so in terms of the lighting. You know some of that was not just necessarily driven by the preservation restriction that may have been what was decided by the building committee of the library, perhaps just because it was keeping and keeping with what was there in the building. I'm assuming that you know the lumens or the light color could be adjusted so it's not as glaring as boost as you know, older lights could be right you can have a softer, warmer light, just enough to provide the you know the the focandals necessary to illuminate the doorway or walkway and so you know the preservation restriction doesn't preclude a modern fixture, it would just need to be reviewed by the Historical Commission. And so that's you know we didn't prescribe these these light fixtures as part of the restriction. And you know this was what was presented the Historical Commission had a few comments on it but by and large the Commission approved the plans as as they were presented tonight and so you know if there are changes made. It might be that it has to go back before the Historical Commission for review to just on those features. One of the things that was discussed was the, the windows and the original library. They're trying to keep true divided light but simulated divided light where there's nothing between the glazing could be acceptable and so, you know that's something that. You know is to me is not that big of a deal from the street, but you know they're really trying to keep, keep the character of the windows and have a true divided light, even with the new windows. And I think that for the, for the planning board I think you know you should go through it and have recommendations and if things need to go back to the Commission to me that's, that would just be the process. You know, or we can consider is it major enough that it needs to come back, depending on what the changes are. All right. Thank you, Nate. That's very helpful. All right, Bruce, since you only had one question I'm going to assume your hand is just a legacy. So we'll go ahead and have a break and Janet I know you had your hand up and pulled it back down so we can. We can entertain more questions after the break so I have 812 at the moment, so we usually take a five minute break. I think that'll bring us to 817. So, if you all can turn off your cameras, mute yourself and plan to be back with your video on so we know you're back at 817. Thank you. Doug, what is your anticipated end time. We generally don't have any idea when things will end. Thank you. You know, I mean, we probably won't want to go much beyond, I don't know, 930 or something this evening depending on how the conversation goes. Thank you. All right, it's 818 and I see Janet's back. As you all trickle back in please turn on your video. We've got all the board members back. I realized during the break, a couple of things I should say. One is in my earlier disclosure, I did not realize that Tony Shaw was going to be part of the presentation. And I had some limited amount of interaction with Tony when his firm worked on the chapel renovation at UMass. So, Good to see you again Tony. We neglected to have any site visit report and went immediately into some questions, which was fine. I was one of a number of us from the board and Chris was along with us on a site visit last night. Are there any other members who were on that walk that want to give an overview of what we witnessed when we were there. If there are, please raise your hand otherwise I'll try to remember what happened. We met out front with a couple of members from Berkshire design. And we heard about the grade changes on the south side of the building. And some descriptions of the changes to the entry to the to the building and that Tony mentioned this evening. We walked around the east side and talked about the parking. That was the point at which we heard about some of the trees that we're going to be taken down that the current handicapped entrance is now would turn into a staff entrance. We walked around the back to the south side. We got the shed first and the trees around the shed talked about the rain garden, walked around to the entrance set the on the north side and talked about the site wall and the way the entrance is actually going to shift. That's where we first saw the portion of the building that would be demolished in the 1990 whatever portion of the building. I think I was surprised to realize that the north end of the original building is going to remain and will actually be subsumed in the addition that's coming farther north. And that on the inside of the building you will be able to see that wall from whatever space you're in in that in that portion of the addition. We stayed there on the north side for a while and then we walked up along the steps onto the west side of the building and talked about the property line. And how close it is and how it would move farther back that most of that portion of the building would be removed all the way up to the porch, and including the porch that's on the west side. And at that point, I think we were all cold enough that we were ready to move on. Some people went inside and looked at the physical samples of the materials that are proposed and some of us left. So, that would be my synopsis of the site visit last night. Any word members who were there anything you want to add to that. No, I'm seeing some head shake no so for what it's worth that was our site visit report. So we can go on with questions. And so I'm hoping somebody else other than me has it as a few additional questions. I'll ask a couple more. Get mine taken out of the way. Last night and this evening I wanted to talk to you about the plaza at the front of the building and how you're, you're changing the entry, so raising the plaza on the south side so that there's a, you know, an accessible path into the front door. And the thing I was concerned about was those white clabbered projections on the south side of the building, and that by raising the grade there you might be above the wood, the wood structure of those two protrusions, left and right. And how you might, whether by raising the grade there you're actually going to be causing the sills of those to be to rod out pretty fast. Tony, Tony, would that be you or would that be Rachel. Tony, do you want me to address that. Yeah, just mean sorry. Okay. Can everyone hear me. Okay. Not very well. I think my headset just has to get acclimated. I think the voice will change soon. This is a zoom issue that I have sometimes. Let me know if you can't hear me. I'll try to speak up for now. Yes, we are addressing those sides where the wings are, we will be. We're detailing that now as we speak, we will be raising that up because we don't want the issue of the wood rotting. So, so that will be coming up as needed to be addressed at that new grade at the Plaza. So you're hoping to raise the foundation in that area, rather than say pull the, we're pulling the wood up. Yes, pulling the wood up. Okay. All right. I wondered whether you might be holding the Plaza back, you know, away from the wood by 18 inches or 24 inches and letting it breathe. But okay, good. I'm glad you're thinking about it. Yeah, Rachel, well, Rachel and Jess both have been working with us collaborating and we're still working through the, the intricacies of the of the edge detailing there but that's, that's the goal at the moment. All right. And then the, this is the rain garden bridges, I guess you'd call them that are made out of a metal grading. I just wondered kind of what the dimensions of those ratings are and what kinds of footwear and other things, you know, skateboards are going to be able to be getting across that bridge or are they going to be, you know, have a difficulty on that kind of grading. Yeah, and Tony, I don't know if you could scroll into our technical drawing set we have some details for those. And, and Jess I'm going to must you also on this question. The great is a pre pre manufactured great system that can be used in sidewalks or tree surrounds. I believe it's accessibility rated. Jess, do you know offhand with the opening sizes for those. I don't, I don't know offhand, but it is accessibility rated. They used it at another college. It's iron age great. And the length of them is about 17 feet. All right, well I guess I just want to express that as a concern. Yes, the last question was not, I'm not sure you'd really want to entertain it but you know when I'm thinking about sustainability and solar gain versus thermal loss. On the north side of buildings I often see or think about having fewer windows and a little more wall assembly. I just wondered whether you'd, what's going on inside the, what's what's in the spaces on the north side of the building that need all those windows. I'm going to see if I can get to the plans back to the plans. Thanks Tony I appreciate your scrolling for all of it. Here's trying to deliver as best it can at home, but so on the north side, while this is sharpening up. What we have going on in this particular instance is that we have the adult fiction area and there's a large group of scenic area against this north wall. And that's shown in this location. Sorry, here. That occurs on level two, which is the lower level of that bay element. And then on the upper level plan, basically it's the, it's the young active adult area so this is a very high youth. Both of them are very youth and I think the, the attitude about that design approach. I do appreciate your comments, Doug, but I think their thinking was that really in order to engender a feeling of a little bit more lightness as it were, in addition to the programmatic use inside we put forth the idea that is almost more like a bay element along that side. So, in order to do that, we wanted to frame this in order to have a larger openings it's also it's sort of creating expansive use today to the really nice gardens that Rachel is developing. And I think that will attract a lot of patron interest, particularly looking to this side so for those reasons of both use patterns on these levels as well as the frame views and the fact that we're attempting to make the peers of this element, relatively light that's what drove the design the course the windows will be, as you know, I mean we're trying to achieve a high level sustainability. And these will be very energy efficient systems. And we are, you know, working within the parameters of the balance of solid to void ratios throughout the whole library. So I think it's a balancing act, but we did feel it was part of the critical aspect about the design that drove those decisions. Okay, yeah, I mean, it's an attractive elevation I just wondered if you considered that. Yes, no, it's very good question. And we definitely are looking at all of these issues carefully. All right. Okay, I probably got another five questions they didn't all have to be asked and answered tonight, but I'll go another two I think this is a good elevation actually Tony, because it exactly eliminates my question. And the West elevation of the existing low portion of the library here on the south side, which is to say the right hand side, the existing roof curves down to the fascia. And you are replacing the roof on the north side. At the moment, it does also curve down, but you're replacing it with a roof that doesn't curve down. And I'm wondering if you could explain your design reasoning for that because it feels to me as though it would be elegant to maintain the symmetry of the of the curvatures of this end of the existing building. No, really good question. We are continuing to refine the study of this particular area as we speak the existing portion, which we're removing is you're rightfully point out this does extend, you know, connecting to an element that goes like that and the curve is doing something rather different but when we remove all that portion there. We are of course, replacing this particular area with a new sort of extension of the roof. But with respect to your question about symmetry vis a vis, you know, having this last like curve or kick out. I think these are these are still at the level of details that we are continuing to refine and I'll just be there's anything else you want to add. It is a it is a important area and it is a transition area between the historic part of the new. Yes. Thank you that's very helpful so we just stay tuned I guess. Doug if I may my next question is a change from the historic and the elevation or to the parking. And I guess we are going to be asked to provide a waiver here. And it's been done before and it's a pretty pretty colossal waiver from 500 plus spaces down to, I don't know, single digits. And I understand, I think, pretty clearly, the logic for doing that and certainly the logic for not trying to be stupid with parking so it feels right to me and I, I just wanted to preface my question with the sense that I think I understand the art of the possible here with parking and and and what's necessary and what's related to you know how it relates to all of the other facilities parking and pedestrian and public transport and so forth around. So, at the moment in principle I'm fairly comfortable with that. The one question is that, whereas you have two handicapped accessible spaces, you're also providing a an EV charging station. And I have to say that it occurred to me as I thought about that, that you've got one of these seven or nine spaces I can't remember exactly. One of these spaces, which would seem to have a rather precious use. And it might not be. I don't know how these EV charging stations work except when, well actually I don't really know how they work. I don't know how the market to have a whole infrastructure is kind of evolving and so forth but it does seem here that a single one of these spaces is related with an EV charging station might not be the best place in town to have an EV charging station and I wondered what what your thoughts would be on that. Yeah, I think that you be charging area is actually for the library band. So the library is hoping to transition to an EV powered vehicle. Okay, speak to this a little bit. Yeah, Bruce love your question. Thank you. It's for the library van we just purchased our first all electric. It's the delivery vehicle that we use for interlibrary loans to go back and forth between all three of the building so it's, it's for the library van only. Thank you very much. That's a great answer. And I think it answers Doug quick. I'm a little confused by the answer that Tony gave to Bruce. Are you still designing the west side. Are you still working on the design for that and then also are are you still working on the windows with the historic commission I'm just kind of. No, so sorry, clarify. So the question that Bruce raises has to do with a particular transition at the element of the West elevation that that basically kicks the piece of roof, which is this part right here. And we are right now in the process of in just this one small area here, continuing to refine that part of it. So nothing else is changing on the rest of the design. It's a very, it's a very focused area that's only concentrated here. Okay. I had some questions when I was reading through the, the last permit that was given for the lat, the current expansion or previous expansion 1990. And there was a lot of requirements and discussion about the Amherst historical society. And, you know, basically they approve the new design of the old edition. And then also, they were different easements for going on site and then insurance for protecting them. And I just wondered what your process has been with the Amherst historical house. The historical society and the strong house because it seems like there's a lot of interaction and a lot of concern by the planning board on the look of the building, its relationship to the strong house protecting the strong house and things like that. So if you could talk about that relationship and what's been going on there it'd be very helpful to me. Thank you, Senator. We met, we've, first of all, representatives of the strong house and the historical society have come to many of the meetings throughout this process and have provided input which we've incorporated. We met with two representatives of the strong house museum. Prior to this meeting and talk through the specifics of construction and logistics and parallel to this effort, I believe Bob parrot is working on coordinating temporary easement for construction. I don't know if any of it is required on their property and any permanent easements that might be required for that retaining wall on the property. Okay. And then, in terms of just another big related question, are you, where are you keeping your construction vehicles overnight. We, we are currently showing the area on the on the logistics plan for the contractor. These, a lot of these areas are kind of, unfortunately, a little bit unknown until we bring the GC on site. We are requiring that they provide a logistics plan for review to the opm into the town. But we have talked about parent has been coordinated on that front also. There is some talk about a possible use of a portion of the town lot that is north of the CVS lot a portion of that for any of the additional construction logistics that may be required. But the number of spaces are unknown right now, because it has to be coordinated with other products going on in town, as well as we would need permission from the CVS folks to cross their property. There is no need for any equipment or parking. There's also some discussion of possibly the BS VFW site, which is a half mile down the road on Main Street as another place for for parking and storage of materials. But that's something that that the town is helping helping work out and again, and in the early, early part of 2024. That plan will be refined based upon input from GC. And then have you had conversations with the owner of the CVS property about crossing their property and using it. Yeah, we've started those conversations. We've had multiple parties with with rights and interest in that property and so we've been trying to coordinate coordinate sitting down with them, but they are aware and we are talking about what that would entail. I guess one of them, I may just have to make this observation. From the west side, the building. I mean, the Jones library is a quirky building and has tons of detail it has tons of different materials. Lots of windows, you know, it's just kind of a quirky beautiful thing and, you know, I was kind of taken aback by the size of the addition on the rear. But, you know, I was thinking to myself during a site visit in the dark that in a way it's a big change. It's, you know, you know, but it's kind of out of view. But to me the west side really doesn't. It just, it's just doesn't match or mix well with the strong house and all the buildings around. And I'm not sure how to articulate that it's just kind of very plain and bland looking facade with very few changes and then it sort of imitates the that's gambrel, but it just looks kind of puffy and I just wondered if, you know, is there a way to change that to make it more fitting or more something and, you know, did the Amherst historical society have a feeling that, you know, what were their views on that or discussions about that. And actually what do my other board members think. Yeah, I don't know who from the design team would be the persons to talk about that but sounds like it would be productive to hear sort of a recap of the conversations with the historical museum. Tony, if you want to take that. Yeah, so, I mean, I think, you know, the whole just of this attempt of this project was to mitigate the scale of, you know, a substantial addition. And with respect to trying to maintain the historic fabric of the main front portion of the library and create a complimentary knob but not be for one, imitative of that and I think the second, as I think we showed in the elevations and the massing studies in particular on this side is that the portion of the massing does scale back against it. It's of the library extent this side here I think we're purposely keeping the overall height, certainly below the roofline of the main body of the historic portion of the library in front. We turned, you know, towards the sort of modified gambrel and here in order to mitigate the mass and step back the plane of the roof, we are introducing, you know, a different scale windows, which is in keeping with the character of the new addition. And the materiality of it is in attempt to be complimentary, but again, not to mimicry and by the way just so you know in this particular rendering that tree is not limbed up like that in reality. So that that existing tree comes all the way down. So to a large extent, the addition even from this viewpoint, certainly from this vantage point will be almost not visible, because the tree to the extent that it's there. Here's a we just did the purpose of the rendering in order to make the addition visible. But I think we do, we did feel that it is a it is a balance between the historic complimentary the scale but also acknowledging that this is something new. And we are, we are, you know, not attempting to mimic, but we're trying to complement. And I think a lot of the things that address both the relationship of the of the massing and I think the reading from other local groups have generally been in the process. So I think we've, you know, this has been in front of folks for, you know, for a while. And I think we did a lot of things to try to mitigate scale and elements that we, we can, in order to create the addition that we are proposing. Okay. Can I just piggyback on on what Tony was saying so the strong house folks they have been. They've been great sports with us throughout you know we've been working on this for 12 years and and they've been coming to all of our meetings and, and they've commented on materials and you know the way the roof looks and all of that so and we've gotten nothing but but positive feedback from them to date. So, thank you. Okay, Chris, I see your hand. Do you want to weigh in on this. No, I have a non sequitur. I noticed that Fred Hartwell was not among our panelists and so I checked my email about 10 minutes ago and realized he didn't have the link. I didn't want to join the meeting so I sent him the attendees link, but I'm not sure that he's still, you know, interested or able to join so I just wanted to say that he is among the attendees. He is among the attendees. Yes. Great. So maybe Pam can let him in as a panelist. Thank you so much. All right. Okay. That's it. All right, welcome to Fred. We didn't let you in sooner. All right. I don't see any other hands from board members so maybe this is a good time to take some public comment. So we have I'm counting 13 public attendees at this point, and I know some of them are related to the applicant, but members of the public this would be the time for you to raise your hand and you could have up to three minutes for a public comment about the library. Do we have any members, anybody that would like to make a comment from the public. Okay, I am not seeing any raised hands from the public. I guess we can go back to our board discussion. So I will say, I don't think we're really prepared to vote on this project this evening I expect we will continue this hearing these three hearings to a another date. If, if questions come up that the design team needs to get back to us with answers, we can do that at the next meeting. And we haven't heard from a couple of the town departments. I think it was, was it Chris I forget was it was fire and maybe the city, the town engineer who needed to comment on this project. That's right fire in the town engineer need to comment. Bob parent who is the capital projects coordinator has been speaking with them and I understand that the design team has been meeting with them regularly but they haven't given us anything in writing. Okay. All right. I know, Mr. Sirot asked earlier how long our meeting was likely to go. And I couldn't tell him. I don't have a lot more discussions evening. We could. We could end soon. Bruce, I thank you for bringing your hand up. Well, I, I, I prepared to move that the, we continue the, well, the three special permit hearings to do to and then insert the date and do Chris can you advise what that date and time might be. It can either be December 6th or December 20th. I guess we could ask the applicants. What they're, I guess they would prefer us to move quicker rather than slow is probably better. Chris, do you think that the fire department and city engineer are likely to have comments by the six. We can, we can pursue them. Okay. All right. And we will also have draft conditions and draft findings on that day. Right. I know your development report wasn't completely finished either. So I, Fred is now in the meeting and I, Fred has raised his hand. So, since we kept him from making comments until now, why did Fred, why don't you unmute yourself and tell us what you want to say. The point of order is, is my motion table for the moment or just dismissed for the moment and we'll come back. Oh, I'm sorry, Bruce. I'm happy to withdraw. I mean, let's table it for them for a minute. Just, I want to give Fred a chance and then I know Karen had her hand up. Fred, we can't hear you. Oh no, you are unmuted I can see but we cannot hear you. No, no, no, no audio at least that I'm hearing. And, but you appear to be unmuted. Okay, thank you for, thank you for trying. All right. Bruce, why don't we go on back to your motion. So you, you made a motion to continue the three hearings to a date certain. And yes, posing December 6. I suppose it would be 640 or 635 on December 6. Yes. And might I make a suggestion that we, the staff or somebody help Fred there because Fred is this is not the first time that Fred's had audio problems and I think we need to have him in the meeting. I'd like to know that he can be. There's some support here that can get him in. Yeah, I guess the other thing he could do would be to phone in maybe Chris, you have your hand up. We have had people phone in when they can't make their audio work so that they have their image on zoom, but then they have their voice come through on the phone. I also wanted to suggest if, if Fred was not watching on Amherst media that he would be, it would be good if he would be watching a video of this meeting so that he would be able to vote. Maybe he was watching on Amherst media, but if not him or I can send him a link to the video when that becomes available. So then he can attest to the fact that he watched the meeting. Fred, would you gesture to make sure you can hear us? Is that right? Okay. All right. So you've heard what Chris said. Okay. So good with the motion. Yes, you have a motion on the floor. And does anybody want to second it or. I guess I'm happy to second your motion. Any further comment from board members. No. Okay. All right, we'll go through a roll call to continue the hearings to December 6. Starting Bruce with you. Hi. And Jesse. Hi. And Janet. Hi. Johanna. Hi. And Fred, I'm going to say, if you're okay with that, give me a thumbs up. There you go. Thank you. I'm going to record you as an I as well. And I'm an I as well. We have seven votes in favor of continuation. Thank you very much. Thank you to the applicant, the design team and the library staff and library trustee who's here. Thank you very much for your time this evening. We appreciate it. Thank you very much. So we'll see at least some of you back on December 6th. Yep. Good Thanksgiving everybody. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Going, moving along with the agenda. Okay. So our next item now is 853. Next item is old business, not reasonably anticipated 48 hours in advance. Chris. I don't have anything. Okay. Does Pam or Nate have anything. Okay. I do see Janet's hand. I have a quick question about the RFP and. Are we getting bites or any updates? I guess we have three responses and we're putting together a group to. To look at those and choose a consultant to work with us. Excellent. All right. Next item is new business. Un unreasonable or not reasonably anticipated 48 hours in advance. Chris, anything. I don't have anything about Nate or Pam. Do they have anything? No. No. Okay. Form a and our subdivision application. Nothing. Upcoming ZBA applications. Anything new. Pam, we cannot hear you, but you've been shaking your head now. Okay. Coming special permit or site plan review subdivision applications. We have a, an application that we're pretty. Certain is going to come in soon and it is for the trails at Hickory Ridge. Pam and I are working with Jen Mullins of our department and Dave Zomek to put together that application. So that should be coming to you sometime in December. My guess is it would be December 20th. Okay. By the way, Chris, do we have any other agenda items on December 6th? I'm not aware of anything. Okay. Nate or Pam. No. All right. All right. Just time check. It's 8 56. Looks like we're up to item nine on the agenda planning board committee and liaison reports. Bruce, we'll start with you for Pioneer Valley planning commission. I don't think I'm going to, but I have the hasn't made a meeting. There will be shortly, but not yet. Okay. For CPAC, I will report that we are now in the midst of our. Season of more intense meetings. We had the first. Or maybe four proposals presented to our meeting last week. We have more, more proposals being. Presented tomorrow night. And we have a pretty intense, I think weekly schedule through the, roughly through the end of the year. And that's really all I have to report about CPAC. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. DRB design review board, Karen. Nothing to report this time. Okay. Janet solar bylaw. You are muted. It's a miracle, but we do have a final draft. Nobody's in love with it, but. There's enough people in like with it that we got votes. And then Chris is. And I can't say when that will be done. And then. There's going to be some reports that the board has to approve the, the bylaw working group. I'm sorry, not the board. And then, then it will go to town council. And it's fate. At that point. Will be decided. Is that, is that accurate, Chris? Yes, we will be presenting it. We will be presenting it to town council on December 4th. And there will be a memo to accompany it. And. We will be putting in all of the changes that were agreed to last week's final meeting of the solar bylaw working group. Okay. So did you say the final meeting of the solar bylaw working group? We had the final meeting last week on the ninth. We had the final meeting of the solar bylaw working group. We had the final meeting of the solar bylaw working group. We had the final meeting of the solar bylaw working group. Was for celebration. Okay. So we can take this off the agenda. For future meetings. I mean, Janet, if you want to, you know. I don't want to keep talking about it. No, no, just saying the topic of the solar bylaw will be. We'll come back to us, but I didn't. I assume if town council likes it enough, then we'll actually have it on our agenda. Yes. And then it's not going to be like hidden under wraps. If you wanted to look at the draft. So once Chris is done. Okay. That would be great. All right. And then CRC Chris, anything to fill us in on. Yes. The rental registration bylaw is going to town council. And I understand from talking to Rob Mara that the first reading will either be this coming Monday, which I think is the 20th of November, or it will be the following time, which would be December 4th. It'll either be. So November 20th or December 4th will be the first reading and then I'll have a second reading and hopefully they'll. Approve it. So you sent us the. I guess the text of that bylaw. I think that the town attorney's comments will influence the bylaw, but I'm not sure exactly how. But when I spoke with Rob Mara today, he didn't think that the. Comments were. Substantial enough to really. I think that the town attorney's comments will influence that bylaw or. At this point is it too late to change it. I think that the town attorney's comments will influence the bylaw, but I'm not sure exactly how. But when I spoke with Rob Mara today, I think that the town attorney's comments were. Substantial enough to really, you know, derail it in any way. He thought they were reasonable comments. Okay. Janet. You know, I'm sort of surprised to hear that I was a little, I was sort of confused because it sounded like. Oh, you can't. Enter people's apartments rental apartments or apartments without permission. You know, because it's violating a constitutional right. And so that did seem substantial to me. But I also wondered, like, how does the board of health inspect restaurants and, you know, schools and all the things that they do. So it seemed to me like. Is it, there must be a workaround to that saying you can't get a rental permit unless you consent to this, or did you have a sense of that? Or is that am I going too deep? I think you'd have to pay attention to the CRC meetings. I'm not into it enough to know the answer. Maybe Jesse knows he'd raised his hand. Yeah. I saw a draft of it. I understand it wasn't just about scheduling. Wasn't that wasn't unannounced. Permitting. Visits. Janet was the landlord. The issue I understood was. They're making a landlord schedule additional visits. And that's what it's the objection. Okay. Maybe I see your hand. Maybe you have another take on it. Yeah. I spoke with Rob Moore, the building commissioner, a little bit on that point in the, in another one. And you said, all the inspectors kind of work under that condition right now of how do you enter a property? And so, you know, he thought the, the legal opinion from KP law was more about just raising awareness of, you know, how you have to be cautious when you do that, not that you can't, right? So when there's inspectors, if there's complaints, if it's part of the regulatory registration, sure, it can't be unreasonable. So there has to be notice given. It's not as if, you know, you, we just come unannounced and they, you know, go in. And so that's the way the inspectors operate now. Anyways, you know, they schedule it with the property manager or landlord and it's part of a program. So, or it's a complaint based inspection. So that doesn't change the, Rob said what was written in that memo doesn't change the way they would operate it. Okay. Thank you. It's very helpful. All right. Anything else on CRC, Chris? Nope. Okay. All right. Time is 902. Report of the chair. The chair has no report. Chris, any report of staff? No, I have no report. Thank you. All right. Anything else from anyone on the board or staff, anything else we want to talk about? May I just remind everybody that we do have a meeting scheduled and in-person meeting on November 29th. That would be my report. And I hope that you're all, you're all able to come. And it would start at six o'clock. Right, Bruce. Yes. Okay. So everybody have a great Thanksgiving. Thank you. And we are adjourned at 903. Excellent. All right. Good night. Hey, everyone. Brad, we got to fix your audio, man. Something on your computer is just, something on your computer is just not plugged in.