 Imagine being a civil engineer at 31 years old and the doctor tells you that you have three to six months to live. Well, that's what happened to our guest for today, Mike Paddock. But that was 20 years ago. And since then, Mike's done some amazing work around the world. In this episode, we're going to talk to Mike about his very, very up and down journey. We're going to talk about the coronavirus and how civil engineers can prevent pandemics like this in the future. And we're going to talk about what he feels is one of the most important skills to be able to manage mega civil engineering projects. Let's do it. All right. So now I'd like to introduce our guest for today, Mike Paddock. Mike is with Engineers Without Borders. He's a civil engineer. And Mike, I want to welcome you to the podcast. Thank you so much, Anthony. So, Mike, you work with Engineers Without Borders now. That's pretty much what you do on a full-time basis. However, you've had a successful career before that as a civil engineer. Maybe you could tell our listeners a little bit about your story of how you went from civil engineering to dedicating your time to Engineers Without Borders. Yeah. It's been quite a wild ride, to be honest with you. So I'm a graduate from Michigan Tech, actually got a bachelor's of science in civil engineering as well as surveying. So I'm a registered surveyor as well as a registered professional engineer. And right out of school, I took a job with CH2M Hill down here in Milwaukee. And it was a great time to be a civil engineer with CH2M. We had a small office and it just provided me a lot of opportunity to work on a lot of different things. And being kind of the young person in the office, the newbie, so to speak, it was a great place to be able to get on different teams, work on everything from superfund sites to landfills, transportation, water, wastewater. If there was ever a project that came up, I'd raise my hand and say, hey, I don't know a lot of expertise on it, but I'm willing to learn. Being a young guy, they were able to put me on those teams and I could just be a sponge to kind of absorb all of that. After a couple of years of a few years of doing that, me and a friend stepped away from CH and started our own business, a consulting engineering business. Did that for a few years, gave me a great place to kind of develop my advanced range skills as well as civil engineering skills. And then we sold that business. At 26 years old, I'd sold a business from consulting engineering and then stepped back with CH2M, which was kind of welcoming back as the prodigal son, so to speak. And I really wanted to do that because I had the, I'd known at that point that I really wanted to work on omega projects. I wanted to work on large civil engineering projects and I knew you had to work for a large firm to be able to do that. And CH2M gave me that opportunity. We had got several different projects. I worked on mega projects in New Mexico, Wisconsin, Virginia, kind of gradually moved my way up the totem pole, working on bigger and bigger projects. And everything was going according to plan, right? I said engineers, we love a plan. Right. And I got dealt with a bit of a surprise. I was diagnosed with stage four non-Hodgkins lymphoma. And I still remember sitting there in the bed in the hospital and the doctor coming in and telling me I had three to six months to live. And that obviously really weighed on me. He said, you know, you're a young fellow, so I'm betting on the six months. And I didn't want to hear that, of course. And so it was definitely a wake up call. And about a year after that, unexpectedly found myself on remission. And my wife and I said, well, what are we going to do with this gift? And it really wasn't a choice. It was more of an obligation. And when we decided that we would do whatever we had to in our lives to restructure things so that I would be able to work on civil engineering projects, give back as service as part of my career. And so 150 projects later worked on five different continents all over the globe. And it's just been an incredible wild ride. And I don't regret it for a minute. Wow. So how old were you when you got the news about the stage four cancer? Yeah, I was 31 years old at the time, Anthony. So it's not the kind of thing you expect when you're 31. Wow. 31 years old. You had already sold a business, went back to a big consulting firm to get involved with large civil projects. And then you kind of had this decision. So when that initially happened, I mean, I would imagine you stopped work and everything immediately. And, you know, obviously was a lot to think through. And, you know, thankfully, you know, it went into remission, like you said. And then so then you got to EWB. And it sounds like, you know, part of that conversation with your wife was really about you, you know, you wanted to still use your civil engineering skills just in a little bit of a different way. Exactly. Exactly. I knew I want, I love civil engineering. I mean, I love problem solving. And that's what engineers do, right? And so that, and I just wanted to be able to do it in a way that could give back to society. And engineers without borders ended up being just a perfect fit for me, you know, the it, the mission is to build a better world through engineering projects, powering communities to meet their basic human needs. But at the same time, equipping leaders to solve the world's most pressing challenges. And that kind of resonated me with me in two ways. One, I love the idea of being able to use my engineering skills to give back and help people. But of course, at the core, all of us engineers have an obligation to mentor and bring up future young engineers into the into the profession. And so to work with students on these projects really scratched bad itch, so to speak as well. So it was really a perfect fit for me that that organization was there and was able to engage. That's great. So I want to go back for a minute. I mean, this is obviously something that, you know, I talked then 140 episodes on the podcast and I haven't talked to anyone with a story like this. So when you get this news from the doctor, you have three to six months to live. You know, how do you proceed over the next weeks and months? I mean, are you were you like, I'm done, I'm just going to enjoy myself or like, how does that prime minute? What does that even look like? You know, it, I had all of those emotions, Anthony, you know, went through the denial stage, you know, they must have made a mistake. Then there was the anger stage, you know, why me, you know, and it was just that full gamut of emotional response. And actually, I got to the point that I was feeling pretty comfortable about things because I was thinking back, you know, to some extent, it was a blessing because a lot of people, they might lose their life in a car accident or a soldier gets killed or something like that. They don't get a chance to, to kind of bring closure to their life with their friends and their family. And this was going to allow me to do that. So about the time that I kind of had my head wrapped around this, this situation that I was in, well, then I found myself in remission. And so that was kind of like another change of emotion and a change in, in mindset of, okay, I'm not going to die. And, and now what do I do with this second life, so to speak. So, yeah, it was really an emotional. And I guess going into remission is just something that the doctors, of course, couldn't foresee. Correct? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they, they didn't expect it. And, and so we didn't expect it. And you know, one of the great blessing, great parts of this was my oncologist, he had actually gone and got his undergraduate degree in engineering. That's why they had connected me to him because he knew how engineers thought, you know, we think about numbers and statistics and we need a plan, right, and all of these things were not kind of put together like normal, normal society, right. And so because of that, I mean, it was, he's definitely made that, that emotional roller coaster much better because he could understand what was going through my engineering brain. Wow. So just for a point of reference for our listeners, how old are you now, Mike? I'm 55. So that was 20 years ago. So it was 24 years ago. And so you've been with EWB for a while now, like you said, you've worked on many projects in many different locations. And you mentioned something there before that, you know, civil engineers really focus on some of the, you know, we focus on some of the world's biggest problems. And at the time right now that we're talking, we have a pretty big problem going on throughout the world in terms of the COVID-19 coronavirus that's spreading. And you recently wrote an article for ASCE entitled Coronavirus, a wake up call for civil engineers. It's gotten, you know, a lot of people read it and shared it. And I was wondering, as we get into, start to talk a little bit more about EWB and what it does, I think this is a good way to set it up if you could talk a little bit about that article. Yeah. So in that particular article, I really wanted to engage civil engineers in the global health issue because water and sanitation and hygiene is really the foundation of global health. And that's what civil engineers do, water, sanitation, right? We are the foundation. We need to be actively engaged in global health issues. You know, Dr. Tedros from the World Health Organization said, if you can't get the basics forget the rest. And water and sanitation is, which is what we do as civil engineers, is the basics. So we're on the front lines, fundamental blocking and tackling. And so the way I like to look at it is us engineers, what do we do while we solve problems, right? So we solve the root problems so that the doctors don't have to solve symptoms and patients. It's a, it's really a nice synergy between the two professions, medical and engineering. And I think sometimes us as engineers don't really realize that we have a lot to contribute when it comes to global health. Yeah, absolutely. I want to read a couple of sentences from the article real quickly. That's here's the section. I will never forget the day that I had to inform a hospital director in Guatemala during a typhoid outbreak that his wastewater treatment system was discharging waste into the river and downstream it was being used for drinking water. His wastewater was causing the typhoid outbreak. He was desperately fighting. This is a man who dedicated his entire life to the well-being of his people. You can't imagine the horror and agony on his face. And so for me, I mean, I'm just getting goosebumps again, reading it as I did when I read it a few days ago. You know, to me, if that doesn't, you know, make you excited or interested or passionate about being a civil engineer, you know, I really don't know what else could because really, you know, this pandemic that we're dealing with now, I mean, there's, you know, we're not going to get to the medical side, but obviously the spread of it, you know, having clean water is critical to stopping things like this. And you forget how much impact we as civil engineers have, you know, I think we take it for granted a lot. I mean, my wife is a civil engineer. She works in water as well. And she's responsible for the water, you know, water getting to people in several villages. And you just stop and think about it. I think it's powerful, Mike, isn't it? Yeah. And you know, the thing that's just shocking to me is two billion people on this planet. Now think about it, Anthony, two billion people, they don't have access to a healthcare facility that has water and sanitation. So just think about all the news that we've been hearing over the last couple of weeks. And what do we hear from the CDC and World Health Organization? Wash your hands, right? Wash your hands is your best line of defense. But what do you do if you don't have water? Right? I mean, there's two people on the planet. When they go to a clinic, they can't wash their hands. The doctors in those clinics can't wash their hands. The nurses in those clinics can't wash their hands. I mean, it's absolutely mind boggling that this situation exists on the planet. And some people might say, well, you know, I feel sorry for those folks, but what does that mean to me? Well, that's where coronavirus, I think, sent us the wake up call, right? We're in a global society. We have a global economy, we have global transportation, and we have global health. And so what happens in developing country clinic on the other, in another continent, could directly be related back to us here in the United States, because we can't stop those epidemics where they start and nip them in the bud, which is what all the experts tell us is our best line of defense. Yeah, for sure. It's definitely something to think about. And we'll link to Mike's article here in the podcast show notes. You can give it a read. So, Mike, how did you initially find out about EWB when you were going through that process? Had you already known about them? How did you, what really moved you towards them? Yeah, so actually, when I started doing this work, Engineers Without Borders got started in 2002 by Dr. Bernarda Omede, University of Colorado. And so when I started doing some of these activities, it was even before EWB existed. And so it was a perfect fit for me as we, as I was working with particularly Michigan Tech University with their senior design capstone program on projects in Bolivia. And then they had a chapter that they formed for Engineers Without Borders, one of the first that were formed in the country. It was just a fit that I would get engaged. And over the years, I've been in a leadership role on their board of directors and then served as obviously an engineer and responsible charge mentor. And then now currently I'm their chief engineer for their operations. And it's an amazing organization because it's got 9,500 volunteers. And it works in 39 countries around the planet, which is pretty amazing. And the thing that just gets me about it is that since it got started, the volunteers just basically picked up the whole organization and have carried it forward at an amazing speed. It's the energy of the volunteers, the students, the professionals working with them as mentors that has really energized the whole organization. And so it's really a fun product program and organization to be part of because of all this energy that that you're able to work with and passionate engineers. That's great. And just to explain to our listeners who might be interested in getting involved with Engineers Without Borders. And by the way, the website for Engineers Without Borders is EWB-USA.org. It's a membership organization. Explain just how it works for our listeners and viewers. Yeah. So it's a membership organization. Actually, right now, you don't have to pay any dues to be a member. You can just volunteer. You can contribute with your skills. It doesn't have to be with your checkbook. And we have about 250 chapters all over the country. Most of the universities have a chapter, as well as professionals in cities have chapters to basically provide this mentoring connection back to the students. So the easiest way to get involved is go to the website, look for a chapter that's close to you where you're working, reach out to that particular chapter, go to a couple of meetings, see what kind of projects they're working on, what are the needs, might be mentoring needs, might be more on the technical side to review a design or something like that. But there's going to be plenty of ways for you to engage in the organization. And we all have varying degrees of time, right? Life always kind of gets in the way. It could be a busy time in your career. It could be a busy time with your family. So you may be able to kind of move in and out of the organization with varying degrees of contribution. It might be a few hours a month, maybe if you're super busy, but maybe find yourself in a place where you're interested in doing a gap year between employment. And you're saying, hey, you know what, before I take that next job, I want to go and do a six month or a one year assignment in another country and contribute with my engineering skills. And it gives you the opportunity to kind of engage in those different levels. Yeah, that's great. And what I can offer from my own experience with engineers without borders is I know that there are student chapters as well, because I have spoken at various colleges and universities, two engineering students. And I remember vividly when I visited Clemson, they had a group there. And I kind of met with the group and they showed me their project on the computer. There was a slideshow. And I got to tell you, they were so excited and they were so passionate about the project because, you know, they had done this project together. They had visited the country and I remember where it was. They had visited the country several times together. And you can imagine what that experience would be like for just for a student, no less, you know, professional engineer. And what I also remember is when I practiced as a civil engineer interviewing, you know, candidates for our company, talking to them about their EWB experiences, because what you don't realize is as much as you're giving back, which is a great thing, you're building a lot of your own career and professional skills with these projects because you're managing projects. And I remember talking to someone that said, you know, I had to communicate issues about a water system to people that I really couldn't speak the same language as them. So it's a valuable experience in, you know, many, many, many ways. And I would totally encourage you to, you know, get involved with it. And, you know, like I said, I'll link to the website here. I'm sure you can, you know, find Mike out there on LinkedIn if you want to really get in touch with him and others there. But it is valuable. And so, Mike, I want to, I want to go back a little bit and talk about some of the work you've done on some of the mega projects and maybe just for some of our listeners that are interested in doing that or are doing that. But before I go to that, you know, going back to your, you know, your major kind of career life transition that you had when you got that news from the doctor since that time, you know, now it's been a long time you've been doing, you've done a lot of work with EWB that we could tell your passionate about how did you, how did that situation, you know, change, did it really change your life outlook at all, your life philosophy? Well, I'm, my wife would tell me that my life philosophy changed more a few years after that event and continues to change versus at that moment of time that I got the diagnosis. Definitely from my perspective now, I never do tomorrow what I can do today. And so it's always, for me, it's if there's an opportunity there, go and seize it. Don't be, you know, be brave in opportunities and don't sweat the little stuff quite so much, right? And don't worry about how this might affect your career or what your other plans might be because plans change, right? And so that was definitely something that I didn't have in my, in my inner being before this event. And it's really kind of changed my outlook on not only life, but also on my career. So I'm definitely a person who's maybe a little bit more spontaneous and more of a risk taker, because it just kind of gave me that, that call to action that I couldn't deny. Interesting. All right, so let's talk about these mega projects for a few minutes here. We get contacted by a lot of civil engineers or listeners that, you know, they want to grow in their careers, they want to get into these mega projects and work on them. Firstly, tell us a little bit about what it's like to, to manage projects like this. Yeah, you know, the, the thing that I wasn't prepared, you know, prior to working on a mega project, I'd worked on some large projects. And when I talk about the difference between mega and large, a project that's in like the regular infrastructure pipeline of whatever organization it is, if it's the Department of Transportation or it might be the city's water department, those are kind of part of their regular funding cycle. But when we get to a mega project, I like to refer to them as they really almost create their own weather and they have their own demands. You know, one of the things that I'll remember the one of the first governors that I was working with on my first project, he explained to me, you know, the difference, the difference is that a great design is not good enough. It's not okay. You've got to be able to not only do a great design, but you've got to be able to build a consensus with the community. You need to build a political consensus behind it to fund it because you're not going to make a difference with this program unless it also gets built. And that really was a transformational moment for me that this is a project that we have to build enough consensus on so that people are going to make the choice of funding this big interchange project at $2 billion versus more for education, more for health, you know, all the other things that compete for our tax dollars. And so that really was something that was an eye-opening. And then the second thing, Anthony, that brought kind of brought me around was the projects that we worked on would have huge teams, maybe 40, 50 different firms and very, very diverse, right? We had traditional engineering firms, but we also had people that were experts on historical buildings. And we had people who were threatened and endangered species folks and wetlands folks and all of those kinds of things. And to be able to bring all these different people together that are very, very passionate about their area of expertise, but get them all on board for the one project and get them engaged, get them in a position where they're going to be feeling like they're really part of the success of the project was really, really important, which is not necessarily the thing that you might run into on a typical project. No, lots of moving parts for sure. And so if someone out there or listeners are saying, you know, I want to get into that, I really want to manage, make a project, what are some of the skills that you think that they need to focus on to be able to do that or prepare for that? Well, I think you have to be a really good listener, you know, you have to actively listen because you need to be able to understand what the real needs are from the client, as well as from the communities. You've got to be able to communicate at a lot of different levels, right? So everything from working with the governor and maybe a CEO of Fortune 500 company, all the way down to someone who's an office assistant or a junior engineer within the program, you've got to be able to work with them, listen to them and make sure that they're really feel like they're engaged in part of the project. Obviously, it comes with a lot of skills with tracking, you know, budgets, schedules, all of that fundamental blocking and tackling that a project manager would do, but I would say that the most important skill is change management. You know, I like to say that if you don't manage change, change will manage you. And so you be able to look out there and see what that change is and be able to manage it, have contingency plans, frankly, not a whole lot of what we see right now with COVID-19, right? People are putting together contingency plans, you know, hopefully the best plan for the worst. You've got to be able to do that with your mega project as well, because there will be change and you just need to be flexible enough and adaptable enough to deal with it versus having it drive your life. And in terms of getting good at that, it sounds to me like it's really something that comes with just experience on the job. Would you, was that how you kind of got good at change management? Well, I think a big part of it is to have a good mentor, you know, and one of the things that I've really, really felt strongly about is as I was managing the various projects that I was involved with is I always had really good deputy project manager, program directors. And I took a lot of pride in those folks being able to kind of graduate and taking on their own projects through this process. It was almost like the same relationship you would have as a professor and a student, right? And so to have a company that recognizes the importance of that mentorship, you know, a senior person who's going to be able to bring someone along, as well as the people who are willing to share those skills and people who are willing to learn those skills is really a critical part of it, because you can read about it. You can watch a lot of videos about it, but it's not until you're in the fishbowl, as I would like to call it, that you really can't live it and have that experience. So and how do you get the experience? You've got to have the opportunity to kind of work under someone as well to show you the ropes. That's great. It seems like, you know, as I'm thinking about everything we're talking through here, it's obvious that I think a theme of this episode is, you know, transition, unknown, you know, changes. I mean, you had the whole, you know, you had that conversation with your doctor that was a major curveball. You had to make change. You had to make adjustments. Dealing with these mega projects involves a lot of change management issues that we have in everyday life, like the coronavirus, which you wrote about, is a big curveball for the world, not for individuals or even for communities. And so it just really goes to show you, you know, the importance of kind of change management and being flexible in your career. And for me, I mean, that's also one of the reasons I really like civil engineering, because I do feel like it's a career where you do have to learn to flex and there is a lot of different areas for you to be able to work in and contribute. It's such a diverse profession. There's hundreds of different disciplines of civil engineering. So really interesting stuff. We're going to be back in just a minute and we're going to put Mike on the civil engineering hot seat to finish this one out. So stick with us. I hope you are enjoying this episode of the Civil Engineering Podcast, which is produced by the Engineering Management Institute. Please be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel here for more podcast episodes. And for all of our engineering manager ED20 shorts videos that we publish weekly, where we interview successful engineering managers. Now it's time to jump into our civil engineering hot seat segment. All right, we're back with Mike Paddock of EWB USA, our engineers without borders. And Mike, we're going to put you on the civil engineering hot seat. And I can imagine, based on everything you've been through already, it'll be, it'll be pretty easy for you. So the first question that I want to start off with here is, do you have any specific rituals or routines that you practice every day? For example, do you have a specific morning ritual or a lunchtime ritual, something that you do consistently on a daily basis that contributes to your success? Yeah, what I've found out through my career is what I need is a morning ritual that involves exercise. And I know a lot of people do that. But for me, it's, it's not so much for my body, it's probably more for my mind. It gives my first get up in the morning, I like to go and work out. And when I do that, I usually don't have a lot of other distractions. I may be put on a podcast or something like that. But I use it to kind of just clear my mind, think about what's going to be in front of me today, what's going to be in front of me for the next several days, weeks, or even a month, and not necessarily be distracted by the phone, by your email, by your text, all of those kinds of things gives you a chance to just really kind of focus in on where you're headed. That's great. All right, next question. Is there a book that you might recommend to engineers on a regular basis or just a book that you found to be helpful in your professional and personal development? Yeah, one of the first books that I read in my endeavor to improve myself as a project manager is a book called Credibility. And it's how leaders gain and lose it and why people demand it. It's written by Barry Posner. And I think it's so important to us as civil engineers, because we have long careers, right? And you, and what you have with you through that process is your own personal credibility, credibility with your clients, credibility with the public, credibility with your staff. And so it's just really important to move through life in a transparent and credible manner. And I think there's a really nice job of outlining. Yeah, that's a great point, because we do, we are very public facing many civil engineers. You got to go to boards, you have to make presentations about projects you're working on. And certainly people looking at you, you know, want to feel, you know, confident and comfortable and that you know what you're doing and that you're credible. So that's definitely something to consider, I think, for all civil engineering professionals. All right, Mike, next one, you've undoubtedly had different managers throughout your career as a civil engineer and not to name names. But if you think back, and you think of some of your favorite managers or one of your favorite managers, what is it that that manager did to make him or her your favorite? What were the characteristics or skills that they showed? Yeah, I think my first mentor was just so important to me on this, Anthony. When I first got out of school, he came to me and he said, you know, Mike, what you're going to want to do is you're going to say, man, I wish I would have taken just one more technical class, you know, that advanced timber design or advanced foundations. And then after about five years, you're going to say, wow, I should have paid more attention to that econ class. I should have did more business management because finance is so much so important to what we do as civil engineers. And then he said after about 10 years, and he was almost exactly right on the timeframe. He said, you would come to the realization that you should just scrap all of those classes and focused on sociology and psychology. Because what we do as civil engineers is really people based, right? We pledge to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the public. And people are the center of what we do. So to understand people, be able to work with people is just so very, very important. And I think a lot of times we miss that in the universities. That's really interesting. And it certainly hits home for me. I mean, at EMI, we do a lot of people skills training for engineers. And when I started the company about 10 years ago, it was, I had to really sell that to companies, how important that was. And I'm seeing in today right now, you don't have to sell it as much anymore. I think people are becoming, it's becoming more obvious to people that civil engineers and just engineers in general need to have people skills, they need to be able to do, you know, run meetings, go in front of the public and converse, talk with architects and other consultants, right? And so I really think it's important to always stress that, you know, there's different aspects to be a successful civil engineer. The way I always tell people is you got to have your technical skills, you got to have your project management skills, and you got to have your people skills, right? Those three things can really make you a well rounded civil engineer. So it's good to hear that, you know, your managers and your mentors, you know, was well kind of really drove that point home. That's great. All right. So the last question that I have for you, Mike, is you get into an elevator with a civil engineer, you have about 30 to 40 seconds to give that individual career advice, what would you tell him or her? Well, I give them the same advice that I got from one of my mentors, which was, you can't make a bad career choice before you're 30. And I would like to think maybe it's 60 now, right? But the reality is, is what the point was, is he was saying that, especially early in your career, what you're doing is you're building your base. And you've got the opportunity to work on a lot of different things. And maybe you decide that you don't want to be a planner or a construction person. That's okay, because you're going to use that perspective as you move further down into your career, move up into the management responsibilities. And understanding those different perspectives is really, really important. So I think a lot of young engineers just stress way too much about their career and their choices and think that if they make a bad choice, you know, their career is over or something like that. And certainly not the case, you're always going to use that experience that you get during those life opportunities. And then the key there is if it's something you don't like to do, by all means change. You know, we've got the opportunity to change if you're in a company like I was that allowed you to change into different disciplines or different opportunities and still stay with the same company. That's wonderful. But be willing to maybe step out and be brave and be willing to take on new assignments to just broaden that base out because it's just so valuable. Yeah, that's great. In fact, our next episode of the podcast, I had sent a question out over social media asking civil engineers what advice they would give or what high school students should know about civil engineering if they were considering and got a lot of really interesting answers. And one of them that kept coming up was the diversity in civil engineering and the ability to be flexible throughout your career as a civil engineer and try different things, you know, exactly, you know, to Mike's point there. And that's what I really like about engineering and civil engineering in general is that you can come out of school and think to yourself civil engineering is huge. I have no idea what aspect of what I want to practice and just try something. I mean, I know for me, I started in working on small bridges, then I did some geotechnical work before I ended up in land development, which I didn't even know existed from school because I didn't really know what land development engineering was. So to Mike's point, if you're a civil engineer, you're kind of a little bit bored, you're struggling in your position, you're thinking, you know, you don't like it and you're unsure of what you're going to do. You know, don't worry about it, you know, you can flex, you can try something different. Yes, you might need to learn stuff. But, you know, you can always, you have those abilities, you've been educated, you have a good degree, you have a good background, and you can flex. So Mike, before I let you go, just from your experience that you've had so far with engineers without borders over the years, is there, I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of great projects you worked on, but maybe you could share with us, you know, one thing that happened, one person you met, one project you worked on that really stood out for you as something that, you know, that you will remember. Yeah, you know, one of the most special projects for me was a community called Lagarucha in the Mayan mountains. And once again, the leaders of this movement within the community was the midwives, the healthcare professionals. Four amazing midwives that were there, and they had put the pressure on the community overall to solve a problem, which was a very, very high infant and maternal mortality rate, horrible situation. And they had two issues that were barriers for them. One, they couldn't get across the river to access a hospital. River was called the assassin because of its nasty nature. And the midwives, they would feel one of the expecting mothers, they could feel the fetus, they knew that needed help, it was turned the wrong way, they needed a C-section. You have to realize this is a small community, right? So it's their friends, it's their neighbors, and they knew that there was nothing they could do. So they were just so frustrated that they wanted to have this bridge built. And we did that. Marquette University chapter of engineering board built the bridge and provided that access, but they weren't done. Then they followed it up with a potable water system that provided clean water to the community, which was equally transformational. When we turned on the water system, just like that, the absentee rate in the school went from two to 300 per month down to two. Amazing, right? That's amazing. That impact that happens because of civil engineering, it was just mind-blowing. And I had the opportunity here a year or so ago to go back and visit that community 10 years after the program was completed. And I was really curious, have they been able to sustain it? What does it look like now? And it was just so rewarding, one to catch up personally, of course, with all of these amazing people, but to be able to see now how they've been just after those barriers have been removed, to just move forward. And the infant and maternal mortality rates have gone to zero. The school is robust and thriving because now girls are not having to go fetch water and firewood to be able to provide water to their families and they can go to school. And so they're engaging in a much more meaningful way. And it just really just picked up that whole community and moved it forward. And our job as the civil engineers, engineers without borders with some financial help from Rotary, was to remove those barriers. And then the people just ran with them there. So, yeah, that's always going to be a really special project. That's great. Well, Mike, listen, you're certainly an inspiration for civil engineers all around the world. And I'm glad to be able to have you on the podcast so we can share your story with many people. And we'll certainly continue to follow you, follow your writing and share them with everyone that we can. Just thank you so much for taking some time out today. And I wish you the best on your upcoming EWB trip and everything that you continue to do with them. Thank you so much, Anthony. Keep up the great work with EMI. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Civil Engineering Podcast on YouTube produced by the Engineering Management Institute. We're always looking for new ways to help engineers become effective managers and leaders. You can view all of our content on our website at engineeringmanagementinstitute.org and be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel here for our weekly videos. Until next time, please continue to engineer your own success.