 Good evening and thank you for tuning in for tonight's City Council forum Co-hosted by the Times-Argus and Orca Media. I'm Stephen Pappas from the Times-Argus and I will be serving as moderator this evening. We're grateful for this opportunity to be part of the democratic process. Democracy only works when we can make informed decisions about the people we want to elect public office and we're pleased to be able to spend the next 90 minutes with the candidates on the ballot for Montpelier City Council. There are two candidates running unimposed, incumbents Lauren Heil and Palin Cohn. While they're not here this evening, they've been invited by Orca Media to make recorded statements about themselves that will accompany the rebroadcast of this forum. During tonight's forum, we'll be hearing from four candidates, Sal Alfano and Merrick Moden are seeking the council seat to represent District 2. Thomas Abdelnor, did I get it? Yes, that was just right. Yes, and Tim Haney are seeking the District 3 seat. In a moment you're going to hear from the candidates, but first we have some housekeeping. This is a forum and not a debate. The candidates will not be addressing one another directly. They are here to explain what differentiates them from their fellow contenders and to outline their thoughts on the issues of the day in Montpelier. To be clear, the questions posed tonight are mine and the candidates have not seen them in advance. Each candidate will get two minutes to introduce themselves. Following those opening remarks, I will pose a series of questions. The candidates will get two minutes to respond. Each. I'll rotate through the order of the responders so that each candidate gets several opportunities to speak first. During the answers, I will signal with 15 seconds to go. With a few minutes left in the forum, I will let the candidates make closing remarks. We're expecting a civil and respectful dialogue. I would remind viewers that this is being live streamed, but the forum will be available at Orchimedia.net and will be re-broadcast between now and Tau Meaning Day, which is March 7th. For the sake of clarity, you will be introduced in alphabetical order by the last name, not by district. So with that, Thomas, you're first. Thank you so much, Stephen. Feel free to call me Tom. Okay. My name, as I said, is Tom Adlenor. I'm running to represent the folks in District 3. I am running to try to be the progressive candidate in this race. I've spent my entire professional career trying to stick up for folks without a voice in politics and make sure that working families are heard when it comes to the decision-making that's done in government. I am originally from the Northeast Kingdom, but I've been proud to live in Montpelier for the past six years. And I am the legislative coordinator for the Vermont State Employees Association, where I work at the State House most days during the legislative session, fighting to ensure that working people across the state and hundreds of folks here in Montpelier are safe on the job, are having their rights respected, are safe in their ability to retire with dignity, and their ability to make sure that they have good benefits and good health care. I've been fortunate to work in politics for a couple of years. Since law school, I worked for Senator Cory Booker in New Jersey and on President Obama's reelection campaign. My first job in politics was working in Senator Sanders' office. It was then Congressman Sanders' office, so I guess I'm dating myself a little bit. But those are the sort of values that I hope to represent on the council. I want to be a direct line for folks to make sure that their voice is heard and that the decisions that are being made on the council are being done with the interests of folks involved in our community being represented on the council. I want to be folks conduit to make sure they're being represented well. Great. Thank you, Tom. Thanks, Steve. Next, we are going to hear from Sal Alfano. Thanks. I'm Sal Alfano. I'm running for the one-year seat in District 2. I came to Vermont in 1969 to go to college, ended up falling in love with the place, and with my wife, who I met in college. We moved to East Calus, raised a couple of kids there. My background is sort of a combination of blue collar, white collar. I ran a construction company for almost 20 years, worked my way through college as a carpenter and then opened my own business. Started writing articles for new home builders and remodellers, focused on both the technical aspects of construction and running the business of a construction company. And that actually led to a 30-year career in trade media, editing and writing for magazines, directed at the national home building and remodeling professional population. So I really got interested in running, partly because of the emphasis on housing. I mean, I really had a 50-year association with housing, both directly and indirectly. And it's a very complex undertaking. And I think the conversation is often simplistic. People use the word affordable without really understanding everything that entails. So I'm really running to use my background and my experience to the benefit of the community. I hope in the kind of decisions that the council will need to make in the next year, which I think are going to affect this community for a long time to come. Great. Thank you very much. Tim Haney. Yeah, Tim Haney also running for a district three seat on the city council. I grew up in Montpelier and just down the street with my nine brothers and sisters and really had a great, just a great place to grow up. Went all the way to UVM to college and then came back and joined my dad in the brokerage firm. And I've been selling real estate and working on real estate activities since 1981. Also, we were involved in shepherding and creating several neighborhoods in Montpelier, including some of the most recent ones that have been created in the last decade. So I've had some experience in creating housing and building neighborhoods and really enjoyed that part of what I've done. I think the conversations in the community at this time around housing and infrastructure and homelessness, there's just so many key conversations happening right now. I just feel like it's a great time and I can contribute to those and hopefully add something to do some good solutions. That's why I'm running. Great. Thank you. And Merrick Moden. Alrighty. My name is Merrick Moden. I'm running for a district two. I've grown up right here in Montpelier and I live over on Sibley Avenue. I've always been drawn to civic service and finding ways to solve problems. It's important for me to reassure anyone who may be concerned about my age that as a member of the Montpelier School Board and heading into my fourth year now as a member of Montpelier's Complete Streets Committee, I have experience in representing our community. And as a young adult, I would bring a valuable perspective to city council that has been significantly underrepresented. People under 34 in Montpelier account for roughly 40% of our overall community and those from 15 to 34 make up approximately 23%. From a disparity between what people make and what they can afford and the difficulties of staying in and starting out in Montpelier, I think a quarter of their city should be able to look to their council and feel that they are being represented by those facing the same challenges that they are. I think we need single family and starter homes. I think a new teacher should be able to live in Montpelier and right now they can't. They can't start out here. And I think Elkscubland is promising and we should definitely take advantage of it. But we also need to consider other options like how can we increase the density of our city without purely increasing urban sprawl. I think we should take another look at unused parking lots and unoccupied downtown buildings and see if we can build housing through those routes. And if we build recreational facilities on Elkscubland, I think we also need to ensure equitable transportation access to those facilities. I'd also like to make clear that yes, I'm in the college application process and there are valid questions concerning a long-term city counselor. So let me say now, if elected, I'm committed completely to finishing out this term and it would also inform my choices at where to attend college. And it would be my intention to serve beyond this one-year term. Thank you. Thank you very much. Well, we're off to the races. Thank you. We're going to jump right into the conversation now. Sal, the first question is going to go to you for starters. What does Montpelier need to do when it comes to economic development and expanding and improving the property tax base? Yeah, very good question. Well, I think the housing issue that everyone seems to be experiencing now is really a demand and supply thing. So I think we obviously need to increase the supply of housing, both owned housing and rental housing. But I think we need to do it in a new way. We need to consider rezoning for multifamily, also for single-family attached housing, townhouse kind of structures or duplexes or triplexes instead of the sort of classic single-family with a lot. I think there's quite a bit we can do on the regulatory side, reducing the obstacles to development, streamlining the permitting, maybe loosening up some of the lot size requirements, setback requirements, parking space requirements, that sort of thing. And I agree with Merrick on using some of the empty spaces downtown for infill and looking at some of the office buildings and commercial spaces that are empty and are likely to stay empty, at least as commercial spaces and possibly can be reused as housing. Great. Thank you. Tim. Economic development is a topic that's one that's been tough for Montpelier over the years. People also like the community the way it is. So at some level, if I haven't wanted a lot of change, housing is a key component to economic development because people, if they're coming to work for a company or have a new endeavor here, certainly need a place to live. We have some great opportunities for us as a community. I mean, I think the key to good economic development is as a community having flexibility to look at options as they come and give them a fair shake and a good look and not immediately react negatively. I think our zoning code is really rigorous and in some ways the process we have has earned us a reputation as being a tough place to do business. So, you know, we've lost some opportunities over time, but there still are some really great ones. And when I worked with Montpelier Development Corp, some areas we looked into like just kind of master planning downtown, where things could happen. There's really some cool opportunities here. So I think master planning is what I'm going to close this answer with. I think as a community we really need to go back to our master plan. It has not been updated in a long time. It should have been updated before the zoning was redone in 2018 and it wasn't. So I think we need to put some energy into master planning, opening our eyes to our options and if they appear, entertain them, see if it works. Great. Thank you. Merrick, what do you think? I mean, it's a great question. Just the other day in a class on the climate crisis, one of my teachers told the class how the Montpelier he moved to in the 90s is in many ways very much the same as it is today. And I mean, I can't speak to what Montpelier was like in the 80s and 90s as I wasn't alive back then, but I can say that I think we're at a point where we have to ask ourselves should Montpelier continue down the path that it's been going down? And I'm not criticizing any of our city's leaders, but I think that question is very key. And I think the question of how we grow our economic development, how we grow our tax base, it really all comes back down to housing and the fact that right now Montpelier, young people, even middle-aged people, many people, most people shall I say without, who aren't part of a certain income bracket, they can't move to Montpelier because there's no housing here. And as a result, we're not seeing our tax base growing. So I think it all comes back down to housing and in order to improve our tax base in order to build more housing, I think it's going to require a multifaceted approach. The Elks Club being one facet, the other facet, as I mentioned earlier, looking at unused spaces downtown, upstairs buildings perhaps that building owners might be able to rent out. And also Tim made a great point about revising our master plan. I mean, it's pretty old at this point and I think if we're going to be considering economic development, we need to go back to the drawing board with regard to our master plan. Great, thank you. Tom. So it seems to you that this question does touch both on economic development and housing and I'll speak briefly to both. I think with regard to economic development, we unfortunately can't afford in this hyper-competitive environment where folks are desperately vying for new opportunities for their communities. We really can't afford, I don't think, to wait for opportunities to present themselves. I think we're really going to have to take a more active and more innovative approach. The development corporation is really in a period of transition now and I think there is an importance to make sure there is an organization like that actively trying to recruit folks to town. So here's an example, I suppose. There's been discussion about Vermont law moving its campus, right? We should be actively trying to generate opportunities like that here and pitching Montpelier as a place that is a good fit for organizations like that. I think too we've got to think outside the box a little bit. I don't know that the traditional approach is always going to work. Here's an example. We've had success with a variety of sort of pop-up events in town where we've temporarily closed down a couple of streets, right? I think that is an interesting model to pursue to get a buzz about the downtown area, support our local businesses and make sure that people are familiar with what's out there. I think if folks are coming in from out of town to enjoy an event like that, they're more likely to come back and get used to heading downtown. Just a very quick piece, I'd say an economic development as well. I think we need to support our refugee community that's here and we need to actively do what we can to try to attract folks in because I think your question really hit upon it in a key way. One of the secrets that's going to be important in making sure that our municipal taxes don't get out of control is going to be really growing that tax base and that does touch on housing. I'm a young Vermonter, I wanted to move back to my home state and when I came back to Montpelier, although I'd love to be a homeowner, for now I'm a renter. I rent like a lot of folks do in town because frankly the real estate prices in this town are out of control in some regards and they're out of reach for too many folks, young folks who would want to stay here, build a family here, build a community here. And so I think it's essential that we're responding to that need and we're an attractive place for people to come and live and I'm sure we'll be speaking about housing more in depth but I really do think that unless we're supporting young folks and making this a viable place for folks to live, we'll always be chasing economic development goals without the true support to build them. So I think that's a key component of any question about economic development. Thank you. This means 15 seconds up. You missed it. I'll watch for the pen. Great answers by the way. Thank you. So Tim, this question starts with you. What should Montpelier be doing better when it comes to supporting its most vulnerable community? That's the tough question we're all grappling with. I think a lot of us have tried in different ways. I guess I'm at the point with this, there's no silver bullet simple solution. I think we need to start making concrete steps toward progress, create public bathrooms and not just for homeless people, for our community. I think for hospitality, anyone that comes to town if there are no public bathrooms, that's just not okay. But to support our folks in our community that are on house too, I think that's important. Shelters creating, like now the only homeless shelters in this area, well the church is doing it on a temporary basis, but Good Samaritan Havens and Barrie, they created the new Twin City on the Barrie Montpelier Road, but there isn't one in Montpelier to meet the needs of people in our community and I think it's worth pursuing finding a location, creating a site. It won't happen overnight, but that needs to be in the works. Great. Thank you. Merrick? So when you say our most vulnerable community, are you referring to our like historically, just historically marginalized communities in Montpelier or our unhoused population? I'm talking about the most vulnerable folks in our community, whether that's the homeless population, it could be the LGBTQI plus community, it could be whatever I left it open-ended on purpose. Yeah, I wasn't sure, but thanks for that. I mean, this is definitely a challenging question because it's a very systematic question. You know, it's one with no one answer, but I do think there is more that our city can be doing. You know, just recently there was a 2021 equity audit of Montpelier and that revealed pretty wide disparities in how welcomed people of the LGBTQ community, of BIPOC communities feel, and the communities of non-LGBTQ and non-BIPOC communities. So there's a big disparity between how these groups of people feel welcomed. And although the equity audit was by no means the end all be all when it comes to addressing some of our most vulnerable communities, I think it is a good starting point because that audit outlines some goals that Montpelier can be doing to make these communities feel more welcomed. And unfortunately, none of these goals were translated into the 2022 through 2023 City Council strategic plan. So for the 2023 through 2024 strategic plan, I think we absolutely need to go back to that equity audit, look more at the things that it outlined for how to make people feel more welcomed, you know, and most notably effectively planning new strategies to engage with those communities, because we get a lot of feedback, you know, the City Council gets a lot of feedback from, you know, I would say a pretty, a few very vocal people, but that's not encompassing the entire, that's not encompassing everyone in Montpelier, but I think we really need to be targeting for public outreach to people who are not likely to come to City Council meetings and not likely to attend listening sessions. We need to be developing strategies to, you know, talk to them. Great. Thank you. You, Penn. Tom. Thanks, Steve. I'll speak to two vulnerable groups in our committee. One is our unhoused population in Montpelier and one are seniors. I have been collaborating recently with Representative Connor Casey, who as I think folks will know has introduced a bill to build a public restroom in the capital complex. And I think this is an issue that's representative of what I hope to be able to bring to my role as a counselor, because I, as I said before, work in the State House most days during the legislative session. I spend my days often in the Correction Institutions Committee. It deals with state building projects, right? And so Connor and I have already spoken about our plans, if I'm fortunate enough to be elected, to sort of tag team this issue with someone in the State House and someone on the Council, because I have an experience dealing, seeing how these projects actually come to reality. And I think this is an important example of the ways in which Montpelier, the city, cannot be solely responsible for dealing with these tough challenges, right? We need to maximize the benefit of being the capital of the State of Vermont and the State of Vermont needs to get involved in these issues. So I think it's absolutely essential that we're collaborating at different levels of government to address issues like this. And I've been fortunate to work with Connor and some local activists who are supporting that initiative. And Connor has been kind enough to endorse my candidacy for this race. So it's something I've absolutely planned to work with him on if I'm fortunate enough to be elected. With regard to seniors, as I said, I work representing thousands of Vermont State retirees. My background in law school is that I worked at the Center for Medicare Advocacy, and right now we're dealing with a really, in my view, immoral proposal to try to kick thousands of retirees off of their health care plans and to put them on risky Medicare Advantage plans. That's just frankly a disgusting proposal at a time when our seniors are more vulnerable than they've ever been. So I really think it's essential that we help both of those groups. Great. Thank you. Well, I think to describe a vulnerable population, I mean, it's so varied, really. I mean, you've all named several. But there's also people who can't afford their medication. They can't afford to heat their homes. They're choosing between heat and food. Those are all pretty big problems that I'm not sure the city can solve itself. But I think we can focus on education for one thing, because I think there are a lot of assumptions about people who are in those circumstances. People make assumptions about why they're in those circumstances, when in fact any number of events can lead a person into any one of those sorts of vulnerability. I think we do a really good job in Montpelier with volunteerism, with programs like heat help and food shelf and that sort of thing. Homelessness is a problem that I think is being addressed more and more successfully. But again, we're not going to be able to do it alone. So I think we do need to cooperate with our state reps to see if we can get some help from the state across the board, really. Great. Thank you. Merrick, you're up. So the phone, I cut it off before it beeps. I might not let it cut, I may let it beep. So if you hear the beep, you're done. The question of the day, what's wrong with Montpelier's infrastructure and what is the city council from a city council point of view, what can be done to ensure that it's fixed? That's a really great question because we have so many infrastructure challenges from our very documented water issues, having what is it on average two water pipe bursts every week over the past few years, that's a big issue. So of course is what everyone knows are pretty bad situation with regard to roads. So I'm on the complete streets committee and I think something about our roads that often gets perhaps a little overlooked is they're not just bad if you're driving on them, but if you're a pedestrian, they're also not very safe or a bike, they're hazardous, quite frankly. We get quite regular complaints about obstructions in the road or how there are often line of sight issues, especially if you're driving down State Street for instance and in the winter time snow piles up cars also pile up on the sidewalks. If you're driving, it could be really difficult to see anyone crossing the road and if you're walking it can also be difficult to see anyone driving. So I mean, we have some pretty major, that safety piece is a pretty major issue in addition to like our more documented challenges with regard to just potholes and our water piping. What I mean, what I think the City Council can do of course we can look back at, I really liked John Holler's piece in the bridge just came out yesterday regarding how the City Council a few years ago we were meeting a target that was set a few years back for street renovations and road renovations, but recently since 2018 we have not been meeting the funding threshold as set by the City Council only a few years prior to that. So I think we should definitely take another look at that proposal and meet funding accordingly so we can, yeah. Now I have to figure out how to turn it off. Alright, Tom, you're up. So I live on School Street which is infrastructure issue central at the moment. I've dealt with the water issues that Merrick referenced and at the moment there's a pothole on School Street that is easily large enough to swallow a VW beetle. I mean it's really a gnarly situation at the moment. Those sorts of things crop up. I think the folks on the Council have done their best to address them, but I think what's going to be required is getting ahead of these issues. We can't only be responsive. I think we're going to have to make a very significant investment, a forward-looking, future-looking investment to prevent some of these issues before they crop up. Part of the challenge too has to do with not the goodwill of folks to address fixing these issues, but having the staffing in order to do it. We know that there was recently a contract reopened, but I think we're going to have to really make sure that we are an attractive employer to potential folks in public works to make sure that we're able to staff up. This is an issue we see all across the state and here in Montpelier every day. If you don't have the folks able there to do the job, you're not going to be able to implement the policies. So I think that's a really key part of addressing all of our infrastructure issues across the board. I'll keep it short and avoid the buzzer. Great, thank you. Sal. I also read John Holler's piece the other day and on Facebook today, Bill Frazier had a piece that, with counter examples, I guess, and what seems to me to have occurred, and this is looking back, I wasn't really thinking about it at the time, but it seems to me that the pandemic set us behind and even though we received ARPA funds and we sort of caught up on the budget, we never caught up on the time. And so we had put off some projects during the pandemic. We didn't have the money to undertake others that were planned and we're now playing catch-up. So I agree that we need to... I mean, as I go around and talk to people, all I hear is about infrastructure and I've now experienced firsthand some of the roads and they're pretty bad in places. And so people are impatient they probably don't think about why we got into this situation, but whatever we're doing is not really working as far as the community, many people in the community are concerned. And so I think we need to take a second look and maybe makes... The choices are always difficult. I think every year the Council's had to deal with this. I think we may have to decide to try and get ahead by shifting funds somehow or postponing some projects until we at least repair, replace some of the worst possible conditions. So it isn't going to be easy, but it never is. Tim, what do you think? Oh man, this is the one where I don't want to tempt the pen, but I think the infrastructure is an old city and I think at different times with different stresses, people haven't been able to keep up with things and now here we are. Water system is a popular one that we hear a lot about because it's been blowing off every now and then, twice a week, whatever. The sewer lines, the sewer situation is also pretty bad. We have a CSO, storm sewer separation initiative that we got behind on and we still have sanitary sewer lines and storm lines combined and that's part of what the State Street Project will be to start, will separate that phase a bit. But it's roughly, last I knew about 50 times a year, that our system can't handle the capacity in those lines and it overflows into the river, so that's a big one too and I think we need to pay attention to it. So it's streets, water sewer, I think we've taken care or we try to keep investing in the plants, both the waste treatment plant and the water filtration plant. It seems to be the distribution lines and the networks that connect to them under the streets that are hard to get to that we're not dealing with. And there are other infrastructure items too, buildings and things, but I think we need a real solid plan. We have to set priorities and maybe some of those priorities are going to have to influence some decisions we make. We won't be able to buy every cool property that comes up that we want to buy because we need to invest in keeping our town on track and making sure the water system works. So I think infrastructure is a really important priority for me. Great, thank you. So the flip side of that coin, Tom, municipal budgets keep growing. For you, what's the trigger that's going to signal enough for taxpayers? Look, I think Steve, that folks would tell you now that we're in an affordability crisis in this city. So I think if you're asking folks out there, when I'm speaking to folks in the community, they're telling me right now that we have to address the affordability of living here. Montpelier cannot just be a playground for the rich. It's a beautiful city, but we have to make sure people can afford to live here. We have to make sure seniors can stay in their homes. There are a host of challenges that the city faces. Excuse me. And as I said before, and I think your question before was very prescient, part of the answer to that question has to be to grow our tax base, right? If we're not building up new tax revenue from an increased housing stock from people moving into town, we'll never be able to continue to address these problems. So all of these issues are interconnected. The economic development and housing pieces have a key role to play in keeping affordability down, you know, making it an affordable place for people to live. So I think that we have to prioritize. I think that we have to use excellent discretion to make sure that nobody's hard-earned tax dollars are being misused or misspent. But I really do think that the challenges we face are so much that we have to grow as a city in order to address these challenges. To your question, when is it going to be too much for folks? I think the answer is it already is. It already is for too many Montpelierites, and we've got to address those concerns. We can't ignore folks who are crying out for help. Sal, what's the trigger? Well, you know, the other article I read today was Phil Dodd's piece on the storm system utility that the city is creating. That is likely to add a fee to the tax structure, an annual fee of the neighborhood of 100 bucks, $150. So if we haven't already reached the trigger, maybe that's what'll do it. But what's going to exacerbate the problem is we do need to expand the tax base, mainly in housing, also through economic development. But it takes time to do that. So even if we had a bulletproof plan to do that, it's going to be several years before we see the benefit of that. And so we need to come up with that plan, and then until we can implement it, I think we need to take a close look at how we're spending the revenue. And put whatever limits we can on it until we have the growth that we need, or we can open it up again. Tim? It feels like I'm parroting the point, but I agree I think we're at a tipping point in terms of affordability with our municipal overhead and the cost to run it, which is our taxes that we're all paying. It's something I've observed over the years when people get fed up and can't take it anymore, they rarely complain very loudly. They vote with their feet and they just leave, and we lose some really good community members for that reason. And sometimes we don't even know it. So I think it's really important that we focus on creating tax base and building things. And every piece that, like downtown, there's a few sites that could be new buildings that would create wonderful tax base. They could be housing and maybe commercial combined. And there's a lot of folks that are really, sincerely talking about making them into parks. We have a lot of really good parks, and I think we also need to have part of the conversation be about how can we create housing and infrastructure and tax base. And it just hasn't been in our fabric and who we are, and I think all of us as a community need to find a way to have conversations about all these wonderful things that we want and all these services we want we need to pay for, and if we build our base right, it can happen. But at this point we need to build that base. Merrick? Yeah, I mean, so I've seen what the budget process is like during my time on the school board, and there are so many competing priorities and so many difficult choices that have to be made. So I like to think that the people working on the municipal budget have good intentions in mind as I know the people working on the school board budget do. But at the same time, I think that taxes are definitely too high. I think that's a pretty wide and common belief among so many. I think we're already at that big red stop sign. And I think from here we really have to decide, we have to really carefully consider our choices. We have to consider what new proposals, what new projects we're going to work on. And I think any of those proposals or a lot of those proposals really have to be filtered through that lens of economic development, growing our tax base, and making sure that we have enough housing for anyone to move to Montpelier. So I agree with what other people have said regarding making sure that we're prioritizing, getting more people in Montpelier, increasing our tax base, you know. And I think just once again being really really careful with future tax increases, really scrutinizing that budget, and making sure that we're not doing things we don't need. Great. Sal. PUSH has been made to decriminalize sex work in Montpelier. Tell us why you support or oppose that particular idea. Really, I haven't given any thought at all. You know, my only experience of decriminalized sex work is in the city of Las Vegas. And I don't like what I saw. I think it, I mean, I suppose from the sex workers point of view, it's a whole different thing. They have a whole different point of view, but I think it just changes the character of the city too much. In Montpelier, it just seems like a complete mismatch. It's just not, it's just not going to work. You know, I, I've never, I can remember being, just being accosted on the street by, you know, people in Vegas, you know, trying to push sex work, sex stuff on tourists. I mean, it's bizarre. So, sort of off the top of my head, I have sort of a gut reaction against it. I can't imagine it fitting at all in the city of Montpelier. Tim? Yeah, I haven't any experience or anything to know what to compare this other option with. I've never even been to Las Vegas. I haven't seen that side of it, but to me, I just haven't encountered anything that would make me, I can't help but wonder, is it a, you know, is this a solution in search of a problem? Is this an issue in our community? And if it is, then it should be discussed, but if it's not, let's move on. I guess to the point, and I'm going to follow up in regard to what you just said, it has been brought up by the council before. So, Eric? So, I'm going to take a different approach because I think less criminalization is better. I think history has shown us that criminalizing more things really doesn't solve the issue. It only, you know, makes it go underground, makes it worse. And the change that the city council made and voted in favor of, you know, that piece of, I think it was the charter, I could be wrong, but that piece of the charter was rooted in patriarchy, quite frankly, you know, the way the law was structured, it was specifically talking about women. It really had no bearing on what Montpelier is like now. And I mean, this conversation around decriminalizing sex work, it's something that the legislature is also having to grapple with. And I mean, it's something that our legislative delegation is going to have to think through. But in Montpelier, I'm in favor of decriminalizing more things because at the end of the day, criminalizing things I don't think is making the problem better. Tom? Steve, I've spent my entire professional career standing up for working people. And to be blunt, sex work is work. And these workers deserve to have their rights and interests represented. They deserve the right to join a union, and they deserve the right not to be put in dangerous or compromising situations as a result of an outdated, frankly, view of this issue. So I will never apologize for standing up for working people in the city, whether that's sex workers, whether that's the folks who plow our roads, whether that's the state employees who live here, whether it's our teachers, whether it's our working families. I think that folks deserve to be represented. I think that folks deserve not to have to live life in dangerous situations and in the shadows because of the decisions that we make on the council. So I would support the initiative to legalize sex work in Montpelier. For me, this is a worker's right issue. And it's frankly, as Merrick alluded to, an issue that has affected negatively too many women in our community and trans folks in our community poorly for too many years. And we should address it and make sure that everybody has the right to feel safe in our community. That's part of a focus I think we need to have on good public safety in town. And yeah, I'll never apologize for standing up for workers. Thank you. Great range of answers there. Tim, how did you vote on the country club property? And what do you think needs to happen there? I did not vote in support of the purchase of the country club road property. And felt it came up quickly and not enough homework was done on it. But I also believe in the democratic process and our community voted and we purchased it. So we now own a beautiful piece of land that's a wonderful community resource. And I believe our next challenge is how to do the best we can with it for future generations for Montpelier. Great. Thank you. Eric? Of course. Town meeting day will be my first election I can actually vote in. So last time when the country club project came upon the ballot, I was not able to vote. But if I was able to vote for it, if I had, I do think I would have voted for it. I know that it has not been a perfect process, not at all. But I think we should jump on any opportunity to produce more affordable housing to, as we were all talking about earlier, economic development. We should be prioritizing any opportunity we can to grow our tax base, to grow our population. And I think the Elks Club is, once again, one facet of what needs to be a multifaceted approach to address our housing situation in Montpelier. And the other facets, you know, trusting our legislative delegation, working with the state to get the support we need, looking at unused parking lots downtown or unused spaces downtown, and seeing how we can convert those, if at all, into housing. But I think the Elks Club provides an opportunity for housing, an opportunity for recreation, and that's why I would have voted for it. Great. Thank you. Tom. I think that this is an issue that had a lively, robust debate. People felt very strongly about it on both sides. And I think that it is a property that we now own, and we have to make the best of it, right? So what does that look like? I think that looks like ensuring that we're making an approach there that involves housing of different levels and types, right? Different income levels, perhaps both condominiums and rental properties. We need to have a diverse best use of this property. I also think as well there's been talk about our recreational facilities in Montpelier right now and spending potentially up to $3 million to renovate a really, frankly, antiquated bit of infrastructure there. I think that some of the proposals that have been had by, as I said before, Representative Conor Casey, it's other folks on the council to invest in perhaps new and innovative recreation spaces on that property are also worth looking into. So I really, I don't want to judge folks based on their previous support or opposition to this proposal. I think folks have had a diverse set of views and I respect those views. We're here now and we need to make the best of it. And I think using that property in a way that addresses so many of the challenges we've talked about here tonight is going to be what's key in making a success out of where we are right now. I may have missed it. How did you vote? At that point I was with my mother who is 75 years old in my hometown of the Northeast Kingdom of Holland, Vermont. And at that point I was up there and so I was not able to vote on that question. Do you want to say how you would have voted? I think, as I said, the most important thing to do is to leave a very frankly divisive question in the past and move forward trying to maximize this community resource. I've spoken like a true politician. Sal? I voted for it. At the time the discussion began really with the placement of the rec center and the committee had really, as near as I could tell, exhausted all other possibilities and saw the else called property as ideal really because it fit the space that they needed for their indoor facility and it had a large open area that could be used for sports fields. So it made sense. It also seemed to me that when housing was added to the discussion, which happened pretty quickly, that was a possibility up there, although I think it's difficult and I think it will be expensive and if we do it, I think it's important that we do it correctly. And by that I mean that we build a variety of housing types so we need studio apartments, we need one bedrooms and two bedrooms as well as maybe single family detached townhouse type stuff. I don't think we're going to build 500 houses up there and I don't think we're going to build them in the next five years. I think it's going to be a long time. The fact that we own the property gives us control which I think is good. I think it gives us an opportunity to do things in a different way. I think it's important that whatever we build, we build to the highest building science standards. We should be building houses like their cathedrals. They should last for centuries, you know, not decades. And we need to make houses, any house that we build up there, any housing unit at all affordable, not just to the first buyer, but to successive buyers. And I think if we have the right controls, we may be able to accomplish that. When you go over, I have to figure out how to use this technology. Thank you. Merrick, how do you think other communities perceive Montpelier these days and do you think that these perceptions are justified? Another great question. I mean, I think many other communities, cities and towns across Vermont are dealing with many of the same issues that Montpelier is. So I think they understand, you know, that they're kind of going through the same thing. Burlington, for instance, has a significant issue with their unhoused population, well, challenged with their unhoused population as well. So I certainly think that other cities and towns once again, you know, perceive Montpelier as kind of similar to their own communities, but at the same time, Montpelier isn't any other community. It's the capital of Vermont. So I think it has held to a higher standard when out of town legislators come into town or when visitors come into town to Montpelier as its major tourist destination. So I think Montpelier is not like other towns and I think it should certainly be doing more to address some of these perceptions around it, I think. And yeah. And it can also, I think, leverage its position to work with other legislators across the state to help address some of these more systematic issues. Great. Tom. Steve, I think that people outside of our community think of it as a beautiful, charming, robust city with great restaurants, great places to shop, great cultural events. I think it's a wonderful place to visit but that it's a too expensive place to live in. That's what I think. And in terms of your question about are they correct, they are correct. I think that there are, I know that there are. I've spoken to my friends who work in Montpelier, young folks, people with young families, people who are trying to start out in their careers, older folks who've had to move away because of the affordability crisis in town. They love this place. They wish they could make their home there and they just can't afford to do it. So, yeah, I think that perception is correct and that's a huge part of why I'm running for the council. I agree with that assessment. I think, well, I think there's a side of Montpelier because the legislature's here and whenever somebody doesn't like something the legislature does, they say, oh, Montpelier, you know, those folks in Montpelier, they're talking about us, they're talking about politics. I think the city kind of suffers from success. I think people see it as a really wonderful place to live and wish they could afford to live here. And I think that also contributes to our housing problem. A lot of people want to live here and there's just not enough housing for them, not enough work for them. So, we need to solve that problem. But I think the image is a good one and is going strong. We need to do whatever we can to protect that and maybe make it more accessible. Now we get here from the realtor. I love these answers. It is. I think Montpelier is very well perceived. People love it here. Our housing is our biggest shortage. It feels like we have a robust downtown, which is a rare thing to find these days. Throughout the country, if you drive through, it's amazing what we have here. We have this incredible community with just, it's just built over time with great schools. It's the right chemistry. How does Towns Around Us view us? I don't know. Every town around us has a different flavor and has their own strengths also. But I do think welcoming more people into the community, creating more opportunities for housing is definitely going to be a key element for keeping Montpelier on the top of its game. Great. Thank you. Tom, tell us your thoughts on Montpelier's demographic challenges and what specific things do you think need to happen to change them to benefit the city in the long term? Well, your question, Steve, as I said a moment ago, these questions are really hitting some of the main reasons I want to be here. Like the rest of the state of Vermont, our community is graying very quickly, ensuring that our seniors can stay in their homes, ensuring that our seniors are a part of a vibrant community is a core focus of mine. I also think that it is essential that we are making this an affordable, attractive place for young people, folks to start a family, for folks to start their careers. I think this ties back, these demographic issues, like so much of the rest of the conversation we've had, all ties back to the issue of affordability, right? We were just talking a moment ago. I think these two questions are basically Part 1 and Part 2 of the same discussion, right? We were just talking a moment ago about how much we wish, people wish they could live here and can't. And so I think unless we make sure that people who want to rent here are able to rent in a way where they're not seeing their rents skyrocketing over time, people don't want to buy a home here, have access to make that transition from being renters to being homeowners, we're never going to address these demographic issues. As I said before as well, I really think it's essential that we're doing outreach to new communities and folks who we perhaps haven't reached out to in the past. As I said before, I think we need to be making ourselves an attractive place for families who are refugees, for families of new Americans. I think that the initiative recently on non-citizen voting was helpful in that regard. We have to be reaching out to a diverse group of folks and making sure that they can afford to live in this place where they want to live. Sal? Well, I agree that there are so many populations that are affected. I mean, there are certainly the seniors who can't afford to live in their homes. And then there are young folks who are just looking for the first time for a place to live. I was actually surprised to find that Vermont doesn't have much in the way of rent control legislation. And maybe it's time to think about that at the state level and see what applies or what might apply in Montpelier because when we have this supply-demand situation, prices, you know, the market just goes crazy. And I think we also have to find ways to give relief to people who are being driven out of their lifetime home, particularly seniors who just can't afford to make the property tax. One solution is alternative housing so that they have a place that they can afford to move to and open up that housing to someone younger, still working, who can maybe better afford it. So the problems circle back over each other. I think the solutions are interconnected. Tim? Can you repeat the question? Sure. If I can find the question again, sorry. Where am I here? Oh, tell us your thoughts on Montpelier's demographic challenges and what specific things you feel need to happen to change them to benefit the city in the long run. The demographic, the aging of our whole country is an issue, but certainly it's a big issue for us and how to make a place for younger families can be and evolve with their lives if their housing needs change and their needs for whatever happens in their families. And it seems like housing is a key part of that and having options for people. I think the older folks who are feeling squeezed out of their homes by taxes, we've got to remember we have Act 60 and about, I think it's about 70% of the taxpayers of Montpelier get property tax relief from the state from that program which really is a power program and I think it helps a lot of people. I think some ways the best thing would be to have options for people is when you get to different points in life you need something different. Maybe you don't need the big old Victorian house with stairs everywhere. Maybe you need something more on one floor. It's having those options to allow people to transition and when the gray-haired folks move out of the big house down to the smaller place, then that opens up another home or possibly for a younger family to move in and enjoy it. I have a lot of thoughts on the demographic situation playing out in Montpelier. Our community is aging and unlike in the past, young people aren't coming up to take over the resources and the needs in town. I think this tells us that we've neglected the needs of young people for too long and we've known for some time now some of these underlying trends like the fact that grades in the younger grades in the Montpelier school district are smaller than they used to be. I think this shows that we're already aging and the trends show that this isn't going to change anytime soon unless we take, I think, some decisive action. This is probably the issue most near and dear to my heart because once again, the 2021 Equity Audit showed a real disconnect between the people on City Council and this community. There are multiple reasons for this but I think one way to help close that divide and I say what better way to close that divide between how people in this community feel especially groups like young people who can't find a home here. What better way to make them feel welcomed than by electing younger individuals to City Council and really showing them that their needs are our city's priorities. I also thought it was really horrifying to hear last week in the mayoral forum that the Census Bureau defines Montpelier as a nork, a naturally occurring retirement community that is definitely a very concerning trend and fact right now, unfortunately. Great. Thank you very much. Sal, in your opinion, has the district heat plant been worth it? I really don't know. I've heard opinions both ways. It sounded like a really good idea to me when I heard about it. I haven't been involved with it much really until recently but I think if it is struggling, we ought to, as we go forward with our infrastructure plan, we ought to integrate it somehow. If we need more hookups, for example, we ought to do that while we've got the street open. If we're going to do infill downtown or development downtown, we ought to see if there's a way that we can tie into it. So if it's successful, great. If it needs help, I think there are ways that we can probably help it by integrating it into future plans. Tim? The district heat plant is owned by the state of Vermont and Montpelier's Loop is off that plant. We were a guest at their table. They set the rates and defined what we pay. The prices coming off the last several years have been, I have a property on the system so I'm really familiar with it. You pay roughly a third more to heat your building with that system in previous years than you would if you just bought fossil fuels at the market price. So it didn't make a lot of economic sense plus the cost to hook it up and be connected to the system initially if you had to spread those out. It's expensive. However, oil prices went up this year. There's still not a deal to be on district heat but it doesn't feel as bad as it did last year and it was predicated on $4 a gallon fuel. When they put the system in, over budget the city did on the loops they put in and I believe they cut back on some of the pipes and the capacity so it somewhat limits how many more people can hook up without more capital being put in. But there is room on the system now and I think the concept is great. I think we've just got to look at it for down the road to say do we stay on the loop with the state or maybe someday we should look at having a plant we can control because I think the state needs a lot of their capacity for their future down the road too and they're not anxious to share so if we want to grow, we're not going to grow on that plant. District heat has certainly been a mixed bag. I think to say whether or not it's worth it we really have to consider as a town our priorities and we have to map that out. Are we committed to reducing our reliance on fossil fuels on getting to our net zero objective? If so, then from that standpoint district heat has been a success because for those on it it has reduced our reliance to fossil fuels but at the same time it's a mixed bag because it has come at a high price to those users. So I think we really have to consider that question. What are our priorities? Is it fossil fuels? Is it reducing our reliance on them or is it on the tax burden? But I think district heat could be worth it especially if we get more people on it get more people on it spread out that tax burden on a wider area. I think we could do that through incentives for sure. I think there are things we could do to make it better. Tom. I think this is another one of those questions where none of us were serving on the council at the time and we are where we are now. We need to make the best of it. I think it's important as Merrick pointed out to acknowledge that this does play a role in something I wholeheartedly support which is continuing on the great work that now Senator then Mayor Anne Watson did when she put us on the path to 90% renewable energy and reducing our fossil fuel imprint by 2030. So I think we need to think about questions of this type in that regard. I think that's an essential part of what we've got to do moving forward and I'm very honored to have both Senator Watson and Councillor Lauren Hurl who's an incredible environmentalist there backing. I think this also goes back to what I was discussing very quickly before which is the importance of having somebody at the negotiating table with the state when state projects are being done who understands that process very well. This is another issue that came before the corrections and institutions committee where I routinely sit and testify. So I would like to make sure that going forward and setting the terms of what a project is like this is going to look like that we're working together with folks like Representative Casey like Representative McCann folks who I have a good working relationship with and who have endorsed me. I'm going to take 20 seconds of the question if I have it to just quickly loop back on one issue on the demographic question. I think an important point to focus we haven't discussed it so far tonight is childcare, childcare, childcare. My mom spent her career training folks to provide childcare and that's a key part of addressing our demographic challenges. People will say, oh, that's not a city issue. I think we have to make addressing issues like that for young families part of our priorities in the city. I think we have to partner with groups like Let's Grow Kids and make sure we're addressing those community needs as well. Great. Boy, you eked that one in. Had to squeeze it in. It's such an important issue. I hope we discuss it more in the rest of the day. Well, perhaps. We'll see. So we are we're closing in on the last few questions with about we're at 7.38 so and I want to make sure that we have enough time for your closing statements. So I think we're going to do probably two more questions if that's all right with everybody. So we are looking at who are we looking at? Tim Tim. Okay. When you are looking at Montpelier and you look at the things that we do now and you look what other communities are doing around us what do we need to regionalize and what do we need to consolidate? A good question because I think we do a lot of things just because we've always done them the way we do them. It seems like I think we need to find a way toward more county government in some areas than we have in Vermont. Town clerks are sacred here but in terms of how the world works now I think county government would be a much more efficient way to maintain public records more and more they're electronic and more and more standardized so I think that's an important piece that we need to look at. And I think we also need to look at sharing resources because really we're Montpelier with our 8,000 people in the middle and the U32 communities around us. I've always been, well not always but since my days in the school board and I still think we need to have a conversation with U32 it seems like from an educational system to offer more opportunities for students to share the resources we've got I think if we could merge with U32 that would be a really fantastic thing for this community and I think it would be good for them too. Those are two key areas but I think it's really worth looking through the whole government at some point I don't know if there's a way to do if the city council ever does a time when they do a retreat and sit back and say what if we could start all over again how would it look what would be the best way to do this in today's terms I can't help but even looking at on the city's website how many committees are on the list and if we're elected I assume we each need to be on a certain number of committees as a liaison from the council so that's in addition to going to the meetings but are all those committees still current are they still being supported by city government and are they still needed and if not we should make sure we use the citizens we're volunteering their time in a way that's meaningful and not just continue committees on that are necessary so maybe they're all necessary but I couldn't help but look at that list and go wow Great, thank you. Two of them brought up by Tim actually I really like that idea about more coordination between city and town committees on the complete streets committee we've actually talked about this what are other city what are other complete streets or street like committees around the state doing that perhaps we could be doing as well and there's been talk about actually know we have met with a few of those other complete street like committees so I think I would really like to see more coordination between both our city committees and other committees around the state I think that would also help increase cooperation between towns and municipalities around the state I think that's a good thing the second thing I think this question is kind of almost referring to the central Vermont public safety authority which is about item to whether or not to be dissolved and I mean I really like the idea of regional public safety, regional emergency service I think the way the central Vermont public safety authority has gone about it hasn't been the best at all and I do think it should be dissolved but I do think the idea of a coordinated emergency a regional coordinated emergency response I think that's a really good idea and I think we should definitely take another look at that as for the schools potentially Montpelier and U32 merging I don't know if I would go that far I think that would probably create probably the biggest school district in the state I would not, I could be wrong but it would be a very big district and it would be a lot of resources spread out over a big area so I don't know I think there were just too many questions surrounding what to do with all those unused facilities and the needs of students as well but I do like the idea of coordinating more with U32 like we already do some coordination with regard to sports teams and extracurricular activities so I think there should be more of that Tom So I'll give a couple of quick specific answers to your question and then I'll speak more broadly about how I think about this issue specifically I think that as Washington County grows and as the central Vermont area grows that has benefits for folks here in Montpelier so I think sort of economic development initiatives that are able to be done on a more regional basis can and often bear fruit and I think that's one area we need to look I also think that we really need to enhance our position as having central Vermont be really a cultural hub in the state and I think because of the cultural program we already have here in Montpelier will be a natural home for a lot of those initiatives so if we can help coordinate some of that with local neighborhood communities it will help us build on an area of strength we already have but I guess I'll just say I think we've seen in many areas around the state that when there are regional efforts there are sort of inherently imbalances between the towns and cities that end up providing more to those regional partnerships and the towns and cities that end up receiving more as a part of them so for me at the end of the day the interests of the folks in Montpelier the interests of the folks in my district are going to have to come first and if it's a situation where the city of Montpelier can leverage regional communities to make sure that we're all thriving including the folks in Montpelier it's something we should pursue and I'll be able to be willing to consider any initiative like that but it won't really be done from my perspective from a regional mindset it'll be Montpelier focused to think about these questions Great, thank you, good answer Sal? I think there's certainly advantages to regionalizing public safety health first responders I'm a little disappointed that the CVPSA appears to be not working out I hope that if it's dissolved we come up with a plan B and try again to correct whatever mistakes we made because it just seems to make sense to me eliminating a lot of redundancy and enhancing the effectiveness of the program I don't know how we negotiate the pilot with the state but I think we ought to do it as a the state has a lot of real estate in a lot of towns and I if we don't do it as a group we should I can understand why the state resists change or at least radical change year after year but I think if we negotiate as a group we'd probably end up a little bit better in a little bit better shape other than that I'm willing to entertain consolidation I don't know about the rivalry between Montpelier and U32 but even that might work out we'll see but I would entertain consolidation as a possibility great thank you with your permission I'd like this last question it's a pretty simple question actually to be one minute and then that way we all have time for the closing arguments and it's going to go to you Merrick we're going to start with you what's one thing that you wish you could change about Montpelier might have some overlap here with things I and other people have said but I wish there was more housing Montpelier housing of all scales affordable housing single family homes multi-family homes studio apartments if I could change one thing about Montpelier it would be that there would be more housing for our community great one thing I wish our city were more affordable I wish that people could have a chance as so many people do and are not able to to make their homes and lives here in Montpelier it's going to be a core focus of mine if I'm on the council Tom well Tom mentioned child care earlier and I would I would make I would try to integrate child care into as a municipal service somehow subsidized I think it's just impossible to grow an economy and a population without adequate child care and our child care is not adequate at the moment Tim? it would be people can be comfortable living here businesses can thrive how to keep the economy vibrant people happy and having the services they need and it's like how to provide all of this and keep it within those constraints of what people can do it's a really big challenge and that's what we need to resolve or try great well thank you that was really great now we're going to close with closing statements and we actually hit it just right so we get to start with you again so hold on before we do it let me get my timer back where it needs to be you have two minutes Tom thanks Steve I want to thank Orca and I want to thank the artist for putting this on this has been a great event and I've really enjoyed the conversation we've been able to have here tonight I think my message for the voters in district 3 is that I am the progressive candidate in this race who will spend every day of my time on the council in my district I think that I've been very fortunate to receive the endorsements of some folks whose model in their service to our community has provided me with a way forward and a path I hope to pursue Senator Ann Watson, Senator Andrew Perchlich, Lieutenant Governor David Zuckerman Representative Kate McCann Representative Connor Casey Lauren Hurl on the city council right now these are the folks whom I feel I share values with and if you out there watching this feel that those are folks who have the community's interest at heart I'd ask you to help me join them in their work they're doing for Montpelier as I said I'm the son of a social worker and an early childhood education expert and I they are huge inspirations for me and how we need to move forward in the spirit of public service I've devoted my adult life to working for working families and folks who haven't had a voice I view my role on the council if I'm fortunate enough to be elected as an extension of that work and I will I think it's the most important thing anybody in municipal government can do is to be a voice for the folks in their district very quickly I know I'm probably short on time but I think this is an important point my model of what it means to serve in municipal government is from my time working for then mayor and now Senator Cory Booker and his model of city government is when folks in their community had a problem they called him up they texted him if there was a pot hair hole on the road or something they need to address he himself would show up with the truck I will always make myself available to folks in Montpelier to address their concerns I want to serve them thank you very much Sal thank you for the discussion a lot of good ideas here I think Montpelier has some challenges has had for quite a while and has more coming up that the council is going to be dealing with in the next year or two that will affect the character of Montpelier for the next decade I think that my experience in the housing industry in particular will be valuable in that endeavor I'm really concerned that whatever we do it seems like we're just as human beings we're good at starting things and we're lousy at follow through I think if we if we plan correctly and for a long time that we will start right and things will end right when we get off track I think we need to adjust and right now I think we're a little bit off track in a couple of ways and I think we need to make some corrections in the next year or two along with some very long term for housing what worries me is the length of time that that takes and so I would like to find ways to streamline that process but we're never going to get it down to it's not going to change overnight and the solution for that from my point of view is better communication I think we do a lot of explaining after the fact I think we ought to do more communication as things develop so I've been talking with people in community about making sure that if I'm on the council I communicate on a regular basis in real time about what's going on great thank you very much Tim thank you thank you for doing this forum it's been great to meet all of you too and have this conversation first time some of us have met so this has been really nice and I'm concerned about the future and wanting to leave it what was we can for the next generations coming through and we have a lot of loose ends that we need to deal with we've talked about some of them tonight I feel like I'm in a great place I've had a good record of community service and I've been fortunate to be on different boards and committees over the years and I feel like this is one I can really have an impact and contribute to now and other places on the city council will be healthy and I feel like it's a good time for change and this year with the election there will be three so it's good in terms of other pieces I think there are other housing projects on the list too not just the country club road piece and I think we should ignore those there's a lot of opportunities right now in town they're all going to take time to happen they're all in different phases on the on the track so being aware of that and helping different projects to happen will be part of our role on city council I do want to mention that master plan again because as I attended a meeting at the Elks club and people were talking I couldn't help but think how starved the community is for this master plan because some of the issues those folks were talking about for the Elks club putting a school up here filling a rec center here those are really topics that should be part of master planning for the community and should be located in the right place in town depending on community values I think walkable is one key value for a rec center so pretty much that's worth so anyway that's it thank you very much yeah thank you Steve thank you to the Times Argus and Orca for hosting this conversation I think it's been really awesome to talk with you all and map out some of our priorities right now I feel as so many feel that we're at an inflection point I think the decisions that we make now will affect everyone but if we don't start paying close attention to the needs of the future of our community young and middle aged people then they're not going to choose Montpelier over another town and community that will prioritize them and this is why I'm running for city council because I think having a wide assortment of voices on the council is crucial for the decision making process and I'm focused on addressing the disparity between what people make and what they can afford especially regarding housing in Montpelier and I'm also committed to working on efforts to fight climate change champion LGBTQ equality and support sustainable and safe infrastructure including roads drinking water and sewage treatment I'm also proud to have received the endorsement of rights and democracy Vermont and representatives state representatives Connor Casey and Kate McCann and I hope to continue working with them and championing so many of the priorities and needs that so many in our community are facing right now so thank you and I hope I can earn your support on March 7th well thank you very much folks that was a really good conversation and and I want to thank all of you for joining in that conversation tonight and for the viewing audience for taking part as well a big thank you to Orca Media for hosting and recording and rebroadcasting and a few quick reminders you all get to reconvene here in a few days the Montpelier Rotaries hosting a forum on Monday the 27th from 1230 to 2 in the council chambers at Montpelier City Hall for the mayoral candidates and then a second forum for you folks the city council candidates will follow up at 3 and Orca is going to be providing coverage of that as well that event is also being co-hosted by the bridge lastly you can get your absentee ballots right now be sure to get out and vote polls are going to be open on the 7th until 7 o'clock and I would urge you to check in with the Times Argus of course that evening next morning for our outstanding meeting day coverage and I want to thank you all for tuning in and for supporting local journalism and public access television so good night and thank you