 number of guests tonight. And I'm just going by what I see on my screen here. We've got Steve Jeffrey, Todd Coman, Skye Barish, uh, Chelsea Walsh. Who else have we got here? Mary Nielsen's on the line. Okay. Uh, we got anyone else that I missed in terms of a guest? George here. Oh, hi, George. I'm Steve. I'm sorry. And we have, uh, Paul. I'm sorry. Jan and Rupert Taran. Oh, okay. Thank you. Uh, welcome. Um, and do we have any corrections or amendments to the agenda? Sarah? Sarah? Sarah? Sarah? Peter, I just want to include, um, uh, I want to just talk about very briefly at the end, uh, plans for modifying the town clerk's office to handle COVID. Okay. Well, we can do that. We can do that at the end, right? Right. Absolutely. Okay. So Peter? Yes. Yeah. Uh, something on budget towards the end under new business. Okay. Committee might be able to help. Okay. That's great, George. If you just, remind me of somehow I forget by the time we get down there. I'll do that. I'll do my best not to forget you. I wrote it down, Peter. Sorry. I wrote it down. Okay. Thank you, Mary. Okay. So, uh, number one on the agenda and we're right on time is revising the parking situation at the top of Notch Road at the entrance to the town's forest. Uh, Paul Seminaire to attend. He's here. Action possible. So, uh, Steve, is that you first to introduce this or Paul? Oh, Paul's been working on that, so I'll let Paul take over on that. Okay. Okay, Paul. Good evening, everybody. So I've, I've asked Brian, um, Brian Redman to join in on us tonight. We've, we've been working a lot with, with Brian. Paul, we can't understand just see what, what if any compromise we can I still have you, Peter. Oh, Paul, I can't understand you at all. Yeah, that's better. Can you hear me? Can you hear me, Mary, Peter? Paul, yeah, turn your camera on. Take it off. Yeah, take your camera off. That'll help with the bandwidth. Oh, okay. How about now? We can hear you fine now. Go ahead, Paul. Okay. Need to start again, Miss. Yeah, Miss, no, no problem. Sorry. Okay, so, so just to, to brief everybody in, we've, we've had some concerns over the amount of, of traffic, which certainly has been exacerbated by, by the COVID-19 pandemic with, with a pretty sizable increase in traffic up on most of both of the trailheads that are in Middlesex, at least this one first being up on Notch Road, leading on to the town forest. I've invited Brian Redman to come to the board meeting tonight because he's, he's been one of the big advocates for, for trying to see something different happen up there. We've met with, with the state representative for the wildlife management area up there to, to see what the state had to offer us in regards to the parking situation going on up there. So this is a very complex project because number one, the, the town has really no, no means in, in regards to property that they own until very far down the class four road. So this is going to be a, a big part of trying to improve the roadway safety up there beyond where the current turnaround is. Number one, number two, finding if there's any possible ways of, of making a better parking situation, a bigger parking lot, moving the parking lot that way there and also accommodate the town turnaround. So I'm, I'm going to let Brian go ahead and speak in, in regards to, to what some of his larger concerns are about. And I think that Brian has, Sarah, you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the board has seen some of the concerns that Brian has had up there with the increase in traffic, not just this year, but, but over the last three, four, five years of the amount of traffic that's increased with, with the town forest being up there. So I'll, I'll let Brian talk on his behalf. Okay. Good afternoon, everyone. Yeah, thank you. Good afternoon. I guess I'd start by saying that generally speaking broadly speaking, we're really supportive of the town's conservation efforts and the creation of the town forest and the development of the town forest hiking trail. It's an incredible resource for, for the community and offers valuable public access to the wildlife and nature. And I think that's, that's really great. And I just want to be completely upfront and start there that we think it's a great resource. I think that resource is improved, proved very important to the community during the pandemic. And so, you know, to that end, we were, we were the original, I think one of the original people that wrote the select board outlining some safety concerns last summer. When the town hiking trail was installed and started to get publicized and, and we started seeing a tremendous amount of increased usage on, on the trail and use of the town forest. So we originally wrote the select board to air some of those concerns about some of the safety issues that were presenting itself on the road. That certainly the amount of traffic has certainly increased in the pandemic time. And, you know, we presumably some of the pressures will be used as our new normal starts to become known. And I think, I think some of those pressures will be relieved, but we've definitely seen an increase in traffic. You know, I, I'm personally willing, we're personally willing to work with the town to try to resolve the situation, whatever that looks like, what, as Paul had said, it's complicated. And, you know, as Paul has sort of been coming up and trying to suss out all the various options, the option that I've advocated for the most is what I feel is the most environmentally sensitive and probably I would venture to guess the least costly option for everyone involved. And that would basically entail utilizing what's already in place. So that would look like an upgrade to the existing parking area. There's certainly space to increase the size of the parking area to accommodate larger traffic. I understand there's some complications with, with the state, but they, you know, on the surface they don't seem insurmountable. And then it would look like improving the signage along the roadway, just to let people know that that's a traveled path and would include areas where people shouldn't be parking, no parking signs, that's become an issue as well. And overall, I think just improvement of the roadway itself to bring it up to standard with the rest of Middlesex Class 3 roads will go a long way in terms of improving the safety. That would include widening the road a little bit, improving the road treadway, possibly reducing some of the blind spots in the area, and then maintaining the road in the winter, which is really the biggest concern. Even though the traffic does tail off in the winter, there still is traffic and that, that increased this past winter. And being the plowman for the road, I know that the banks get pretty, pretty tall and the road surface can get quite icy. So it, it really does present a dangerous situation for people accessing the town forest, especially during the winter, but also in the summer too. So I just, I think there's a lot that can be done with what we have now in a very cost-effective, quick way. Obviously, it's gotten far more complex, but I just, I put that out there for consideration because I do feel that it'll go a long way to addressing any, any issue that we've raised. And that's, that's all I, that's all I had. Yeah, Brian, if I, I'll jump in just for another couple minutes here. So, so the board is aware, you know, so the, the biggest thing that, that I find, you know, Steve and I that we found is, is the trouble is number one, the complication that the town doesn't have any property to be able to kind of facilitate any, any parking or anything like that. At the end, the other part of that is we've now assumed that, that there is a bit of a liability issue. So the hard part with all this is it's, it's, we really can't turn to, really can't turn a blind eye to anything at this point because we know that the traffic is increased and there are some safety issues. The other thing I want to point out is that with that parking area not being the towns, we, we are not within, within means of, of doing improvements, signage and, and things to that nature with, without at least their approval. So that's one thing to consider and in my talks with the representative for the state, you know, anything that, that we do do there would, would have to go through them. And ultimately we, we are not allowed to, to claim any kind of ownership in regards to advertising the town forest as, as that being a designated parking area. That, that's been made very clear to us. So unfortunately all that does is muddy the waters more, but I just want everyone to be aware of that. So it eliminates some, some small talk about possible options. So Paul remind me, remind me where the class three road ends. Does it end at that state parking lot? That's correct. And we've been using that as our turnaround, correct? For the plow. So we really have to, well, we have a number of issues, but if we're going to improve the existing class three road, that's sort of a maintenance issue. We can, we can work at that. Is that correct? Say that again, Peter. Riding that road a little bit going up that far. I don't think the issue, you're saying wide in the road that the class three portion that exists currently. I thought Brian was saying that he thought the road needed to, needed to be improved getting up to that parking lot. No, I, and I don't want to speak for him. I think that was in regards to the, the class four section, because the class three portion more or less mimics the, the rest of not road. Okay. All right. Okay. I'm just trying to remind myself. So our initial thought on this was considering improving the class four section to provide access. Peter. Yeah. Hello. You there, Paul? I'm still here. Yeah. You cut out there. There, Peter. Okay. I was just saying what, what we were talking about before was, and I'm, and I'm sorry. I don't know if that's me cutting in and out or what's going on, but potentially improving the class four road section to allow access father up and then creating parking father up the hill. Correct. And, but we have no land up there beyond our three rod right away. That's correct. And there's also no feasible way to create a turnaround up there for the plow truck if we were to improve or widen the road, right? Not, not without getting an easement from, from either the state or from a property owner. Correct. Right. Right. Um, because one of the ideas, one of the ideas I was, I was just thinking about hypothetically was, uh, if we were to improve the road father up three rod right away would give us quite a bit of room potentially to park cars along the side of the road. Right. It would assuming that we weren't going to try and maintain that during the winter. Well, I know it's, it's a very complicated thing. So my, my biggest concern and Brian and I have, have met and have, have shared some, some common, common complications with this is you, with a lot of this, you just can't have one without the other. And that's, that's what's making it difficult. Um, you know, there, there are some ways of, of improving things, but by doing those small improvements, they, they ultimately do not eliminate the liability that, that is kind of there right now. And that's, that's kind of my, my biggest takeaway with all this. What do you see? What do you see as the liability call? Well, the biggest liability now is, is like Brian has, has kind of advocated for that with him maintaining the road as a class four road, which, which he's allowed to as, as a property owner on the class four road. There's folks who are parking at the, the state parking lot, walking up or down and you know, it's, it's technically a town road being maintained by a private citizen. Unfortunately, because we've, we've got a, a destination that these folks are, are walking to. Um, it creates a lot of times conditions that aren't ideal for trying to slow down for, for pedestrian traffic, if you're in a vehicle. And like Brian has explained, when, when things are a little bit on the slippery side, even not during a rain event, but, but just during a, um, you know, when things have glazed over a little bit and the banks are high, because of the width of the road, there's not a lot of room there for, for pedestrians to move over in a vehicle to get by. So I, I certainly share his, his opinion about the road, the increased use in traffic, and then his maintaining it. Um, it becomes very complicated. So that's, yeah, that's what I'd say about that. Well, he has the, he has the option of petitioning the town to, to upgrade the road and pay the cost of the upgrade, which I gather he doesn't want to do. No, again, we didn't create the problem. That's why, that's why we're, that's why we're asking the select board to, um, to, to take up the responsibility of creating a safe roadway for people to get in and out of a town resource. Um, you know, I, I am, you know, I'm happy to continue to maintain the road, but I do think it's, it presents the safety issue, particularly in the winter. You know, I talked to Paul a little bit about, um, maybe creating within that right road right away, a little walking lane, um, which would, which would be helpful for three months out of the year. But the winter months is where that would not be helpful, but I do feel like if the road is widened and the town is putting gravel and pushing the banks back to keep the surface safer, that goes along. That's like just walking on any other road in middle sex at that point. Um, so I, I feel a heck of a lot better about that versus the luge that I create sometimes with high snow banks that people can't get out of. If I start, you know, we start coming down the road and they're in the road and their dogs are running everywhere. It creates, it's, it's not good for anybody involved and we have had a couple of close calls over the years. Brian, Steve Martin here. I'd like to interject just a little bit. Um, if we improve that road and put that up to class three standards, we're going to need a place to turn around, which we don't have. And you and I had talked before about being able to acquire some of your land one way or another. That wasn't totally discussed, but I think that would probably be the best solution. If we're going to improve that road, we need to have a place to turn around and we can create that parking lot at the same time. And that would take care of all of the issues. Yeah, I mean, as far as a turnaround at the bottom of the driveway, I have no problem giving the town what they would need to turn the plow truck around there. It's actually pretty, pretty close. It would need, it would need some tree cutting and some, you know, a little bit of a circular area to create more space. You know, as far as the, as far as the parking lot is concerned, up higher, you know, I think to the extent that there's a problem that needs to be solved, I'm willing to work with the town to figure that out. But that's a much larger project. And I think, you know, I think that would, I can't commit to anything tonight, but I, you know, I think it would be something that we would have to look at and see. But, you know, as far as a turnaround at the bottom of the driveway to upgrade the road to address the safety issue in phases, by all means, we, I would commit to that tonight. But as far as a parking area up higher, you know, I want to be respectful of my neighbors. I know they've, they've aired some serious concerns with that proposal. So I think that would just need more discussion. Well, here's, so here's, here's the question. Our, our experience with snow plow turnarounds is that by the time we create a satisfactory turnaround, we've created a de facto parking lot. Wouldn't you say that's true, Steve? Yes. So, so I think what we're thinking, Brian is, and you know, I walked up there with some time ago, and I can't remember exactly what it looks like at the bottom of your driveway. But if we're going to create a turnaround there, essentially we're going to create a parking lot there. And a lot of that's going to be within our, within our three rod right away. But some of it isn't. And I don't know, I don't know whether the state would be willing to give us an easement to create a turnaround slash parking lot and or you would be willing if everybody, if, if people on both sides, you and the state gave us space, we would have a parking lot and a turnaround there. And I mean, that would mean we were, you know, upgrading and widening the road up to that point, which I think would solve a lot of the problems if we're willing to do that. One thing I just want to, oh, I'm sorry, Peter. Go ahead. I want to, what I do want to throw out is, is I would be, and I think the board would share the same feeling that what I would not feel comfortable of doing is setting a precedent by maintaining a road, especially a class four road to a certain level without it actually being upgraded, at least on paper, to such a standard. No, Mike. Yeah. All my presumptions would be if we're, if we're doing this, that we're, we're upgrading the road to a class four road up to the bottom of Brian's driveway, which we're getting. Great. I think that this is something that we're going to have to get all parties involved and have a meeting on site. I don't think these issues are going to be solved. And, you know, we have to, we have to figure out what that would cost that we would do it. You know, this is just preliminary discussion, but we would have to, before we go any further, the next step would be to figure out what we would need as an easement from Brian and what we would need from an easement of the state. If the state's unwilling to give us any kind of an easement, then we'd be, we'd be looking for Brian to give us an easement, but you know, we're going to, we're going to upgrade the road at our expense. I don't think that's an unreasonable request and a way to resolve this. And I'm not committing that we would even be able to do that. We have to look at the cost and what if not only the cost of, of improving the road and creating the turnaround, but the cost of maintaining that over time, obviously. Peter, can I say something? Yes. So are you asking to begin the formal process, because the formal legal process of upgrading that road, which is what you'd have to do. That's a, as you know, that requires notification, publication. And I'm just saying that it's a, it is, it does take time. So I just want to be clear to get that in the minutes, what you're asking. I know all of that. I would say that's all premature right now. Right. Exactly. We have to figure out, we have to figure out the turnaround situation first at the same time. I think we have to figure out, especially in these times, the cost of upgrading the road, you know, how many, how many man hours machine hours, whatever it's going to take to upgrade that road and get some idea of what the, what the annual cost is going to be and make sure we think that's reasonable going, going back. You know, when we had discussion some time ago, I think the select board agreed that we certainly bear some responsibility for creating this problem. I mean, not that we intended to create a problem, but by, by having the town by the town far as putting in trails, making it more attractive, we've created more, more traffic up that road and exacerbated this problem and that we, we committed to be part of the solution, whether we would be part of the total solution or not was undetermined. But I think for me, I guess, and I'd like to hear from other people because I gather some of our other guests are here to hear about this also. I think we need to, I think we need to, and I'm not trying to put you on the spot tonight, Brian, but contact the state, meet with you, kind of have Paul lay out what he would think that turnaround would potentially look like and what it would encompass and see what kind of an easement that would require. And if you would be willing to do that and the same cutting out Peter, pardon me. My name is Michael Hall. I happen to live right across the street from that parking lot to I think you're kicking on a much bigger problem. I'm sorry, speaking please. This is Michael Hall. Okay, thank you Michael. Yes, I live across the street from the parking lot that exists now. And I just want to say I think you're taking on a lot bigger issue than you're thinking and it's going to be an unfair burden on Brian because that parking lot is going to be rather a management issue. I've watched people park in the winter in that lot and they have no regard for the snow plow for the most part. We understand that. That isn't the only place we experience that problem. Okay. You also have drainage issues that will have to be addressed, but I think that's nothing compared to the people management problems. Well, you know, we've got what we've got. What we're trying to do is make the situation better. I'm not saying we can make it perfect. We can't create a paved parking lot with a guard up there controlling who goes in there and doesn't go in there. So, you know, people are going to do whatever people are going to do. But, you know, we can put, if it's a turn around that we create, we can put warning signs there saying, you know, you can't park there when there's snow because you've got to leave room for the plow to turn around, et cetera, et cetera. That doesn't guarantee that's going to work, but that's about all we can do. Well, all I'm suggesting, and I'm willing to listen to any other ideas people have, but if we're going to do something to solve this problem, we've got to have some kind of a concept of what we're going to do. And that, I guess, is the best. It seems to me to be a stretch to go up further past Brian's driveway up the hill to the flood. We walked up there with a fellow from the state back. When was that call? I think that was February. It was before the pandemic stuff. Yeah. And it's, no, like you said, it's not feasible, nor would it be financially responsible to do it either. Mrs. Lids, can I hear from Steve about his email and that the other entrance? Yes. My name is Steve Jufreid. I live at 431. So I'm just the other side of the park a lot currently. The log cabin you pass and you go up through. I have several, I have many concerns about this. And along with what Mike said, I'd like to add that half of all the number of houses on Knott's Road exist in the last half mile of that road. And some of those houses were built back when the building codes didn't have setback scenarios. And they can't even keep their doors open in the summer because of the dust and everything that's blown. One house is literally maybe 12 feet off the road. So you really got a big quality of life issue starting to happen here because the amount of traffic is picked up considerably. Now there is the old logging road that originally was put in in the 40s. It used to come off from Knott's Road just behind Sid Bloom's house. And it wrapped around the gravel pit and it goes up through the center of the valley, pass an old school bus to the second cabin and continues right up to where the first cabin is and where the trailhead is. That road is a road that you've got an asset in the town forest and I know he is here tonight that the town forest has been looking at potentially logging that the forest. That's the only way that the logs can come out is on this logging road. Also they'll who owns a chunk of land in between the town gravel pit in the forest is also looking to log. And the only way they can get logs off a good chunk of their property is to use that same logging road which would at this point for logging purposes exit through the back end of the gravel pit and out because where the old road went the silver post of the natural it just wouldn't be any way up right now that they get up through there but they would go right out through the back of the gravel pit. To me there's a screen that does cross the property on that road twice. Once on the town property and once on Villanoos property. The logging companies can't just drag or drive through these streams. They have to put a bridge network in to get those trucks in and out. If part of that contract that they were to leave those bridges in place and they left the road at the end but free they would have built your trail network all the way up to the what's now the current trailhead. And that's a very easy walk through there that all families can do where the Chase Mountain itself is a little steeper and as some of the younger people may not be able to go up the Chase Mountain trail. To me the parking then as you go into the gravel pit you have what became sort of a lower part of that pit when Wendell did the excavating up there probably 12-15 years ago. In that lower section you could park right there and Paul did sort of open up a road and he got within about 40 yards actually of the old logging road right off that area that I would suggest for parking. To me that would kill birds with one stone and yes you've got the streamers to deal with and you would need an input from Villano to cross that property but Villano is going to need an ease of that to get their logs out through the gravel pit. I mean we have a joint situation here where that regardless of this parking on that road you're going to have to address that logging road because that is the only way out you can't get the logs out that's wrong. So as you may know there's rules with regard to removing logs across a neighbor's property and I don't have those rules in front of me but but but basically they have the right to I believe and correct me if I'm wrong Steve they have the right to we have the right to bring out logs across their property and also they have the right to bring out logs across our property in the gravel pit in a reasonable manner is that correct? I think it's limited to the winter. I'm sorry yes right but that doesn't that doesn't create public access across Villano's land I mean if we were going to develop that as a public access we'd have to have an easement or and I don't know how they would feel about that all a walk in traffic being directed across across their land I haven't talked to them or I'm not aware that anybody has talked to them. But when I say to you is that the purchase of such an an easement would be far cheaper than what you're looking at in the development of this road up above and and also the fact that you probably would are going to have to acquire some land in one way or another to create that turnaround up above. That this would actually be be potentially a cheaper way around plus a quality life issue that's going on for the neighbors on the last half mile which is literally half your house of the entire Knott's road. I'm I'm I mean for me for me I'm certainly willing to uh willing to explore that we have hold on a second we have talked in the past about using the lower area of the gravel pit for for parking so you know that could potentially work it's it's quite a long quite a long hike all the way up that hill it may be more gradual but it's quite a long hike. It adds it would add probably a half mile to the height that they're currently doing right now but but it's also for a person that doesn't have time to go all the way to the top of chase mountain um that could be a nice hike in they also could have the option of continuing on to the ponds and then coming back versus the height up the the main mountain right good amount of the traffic that we currently see is actually going to the ponds not necessarily always up on the chase mountain. A lot of people spend time at the ponds. Listen folks I'm uh we're we're way past our time for this evening I think what we've I think what we've we've figured out is is once again and this always seems to be where we where we get when we talk about these issues we've got a number of problems uh we've got another problems we're trying to address and um we've got at least two two potential solutions probably more so I don't know what I don't know what the next uh step in this process is what would you suggest Paul and Steve? I'm certainly willing to to try and track down a contact for Villanoos you know I'll try and get together with Sarah and and maybe tap into uh Marika's knowledge about the situation if we can at least explore that option it's certainly one thing um you know but then of course there's there's the issue of of of constructing this in the gravel pit and obviously you know gaining that access to Villanoos and blogging which which would be on the trail that'd be intended to use but I I'm certainly willing to explore that the the main thing for me with this meeting was to get get the folks who are around involved number one because we we can't have them come to a meeting any other way that way there we we can at least keep this thing rolling and and at least try and at least come up with a game plan moving forward so I'm I'm going to continue to work diligently on it uh with what I would suggest what I would suggest getting to the question of getting to the question of cost which is which is always the issue is to try and uh to try and estimate what it would take to to improve the road and create the turnaround and at the same time think about what the cost would be uh to develop the access up the old logging roads from the pit I don't want to be building bridges across streams I can tell you that but you know maybe it's culverts I don't know what it would have to be I think that this is Steve here I think that we should go up Paul go ahead and and I'll make some initial contacts with Villanue uh I know Dave Villanue if he's the one that still has that but anyway if we can look at that avenue as one of our things but I think we all need to get together on site at some time as soon as we can and I think that'll happen sooner than later but in the meantime we can look at these avenues and maybe try to get some prices together but it's going to take an onsite meeting to to uh oh I don't I don't disagree but I'd I'd like to have uh some kind of a proposal to discuss before we you know like if none of this is feasible and there's no no reason to have an onsite meeting because there's nothing to discuss so right let's let's do our homework and then uh we'll let we'll let everybody know sir you've got a you've got a list too of the neighbors do I have a list of the neighbor I mean I have a list of the people who shut up tonight yeah well that's that's a good start and we can make sure if there's somebody else we should be reaching out to we do but I I agree when we have a proposal and some thoughts about it then uh that's the time to have a walk around and and look at it with everybody there right I mean I would just I would just warn everybody I have to tell you uh what's going on in the world today and in the in the in the town world we're very worried about being very short of money so the idea the idea that we're going to be this year engaging in any serious uh projects I think it just I don't see I don't see it's going to happen so we've got we've got time to time to work on this and I realize that doesn't bring around bring around any any quick fix to this but uh you know it's just something we got to work on as diligently and as fast as we can and do what we can from up what right Peter I guess it's not going to be a quick fix because we don't have the money to get in there this year at all or even in the 2021 budget it's just not in there but I think we can at some point reach resolution anyway of what we want to do agreed any any other comments anybody visitors guests I do think a walking path along the side you do have a three-rod right away correct who is that Tom can can you hear me can you hear me okay okay yeah we got you all right okay on Steve's you three son he's at 431 the log cabin that spoke earlier yes you have a three-rod right away currently right going up that class four portion right yes so a walkway you know currently it's whips and what have you right after the state parking lot you know a walkway could be fairly easily cleared to at least get that blind curve address that I think is the the largest portion probably for you Brian in terms of coming down and around that corner where somebody potentially could get hit I'm not so sure I see the liability standpoint there's a lot of places in Vermont with dips and curves and what have you I've I've addressed this before the state on some issues I've had with my property so I don't think there's a liability there but there is definitely a concern for moving that it's parking lot up above past Brian's property or onto his property so I agree with my father on some of that but I do think you could probably make a walking path that somebody could get through in a fairly easy manner agreed winter is going to be different but folks that are going up there realize that they're going up there for exercise they're probably going in with snows in the winter so that path could somehow get by Joe's properties yeah the problem of course with a with a path next to the road is once it gets wintertime and there's a snow bank unless somebody wants to go up there with snowshoes they're going to walk right up the part that Brian plows probably unfortunately yeah no bank will be in the walkway yeah yeah snow bank up in the walkway I agree hey guys we really I'm sorry but we're okay this isn't the only item on our agenda tonight to say the least so I'm going to cut off for the the discussion for tonight we're going to work on this and we'll be back in touch and if any of you have any other thoughts communicate with us through through sarah would be greater you can call paul anytime that makes sense okay thank you okay thank you have a good evening okay so uh moving along we're now we're now going to have a discussion about the class four section of north slash each bare swamp road to provide improved access to hunger mountain trail etc uh and we did receive a letter from a property owner up there which I believe all the select board members receive what's left that I'm sorry mary which letter was that was that attached one of sarah's um there is the email in my mail it said it said john and megan oh okay got it yeah so peter if you don't mind I'll I'll just jump in here and I'll I'll cut to the short and sweet of of the whole purpose of it if that's all right yes um so I obviously we've been working with with the conservation committee and and more directly the trails committee about the beaver activity that we've got out there on north and east bare swamp whatever wherever that ends up actually being um and then after that I I was later contacted by by a walter by excuse me I don't remember his last name but he is the person in charge of taking care of all the access to state owned property trail heads um walter contacted me basically to to kind of form a relationship between the road crew and and also the conservation and trails committee um walter basically touched touched base so that we could start some some kind of form of communication so that going forward we can we can along with the trails committee and conservation commission improve the access out there obviously we knew even last year in the year before that that the road has has become pretty deteriorated and I think a lot of low clearance vehicles aren't able to make it out there so this this is walters and and I share the same sentiment I I think steve will too um we're we're not looking to upgrade that that portion of road from north bare swamp to the hunger mountain trailhead what what would be ideal and I think we talked about before would be to upgrade the condition of of the road to to bring it up to at least where vehicles can traverse it uh safely not have to worry about you know a lower clearance vehicle damaging an oil pan or anything like that um they're not they're not asking us to do anything but what I told walter from the state was I would touch base what the select board to see what what the the board would number one be be willing to do if anything at all they're they're not asking us to but just put the feelers out there and I told them I would make contact with you guys because the state recently acquired about seven to eight hundred acres like you'll have to excuse I don't know what it is but between six and eight hundred acres out there where the hunger mountain trail head is um so I just that's my purpose of this what what about the beaver situation though paul so the beaver situation mary kneeling thank you mary mary kneeling has made contact with with some folks over uh at the beaver management uh end of things at the state at some point because obviously I think number one they're they're short staff number two I'm sure they're funding has grown in me a little larger since since all of this has has opened up um but she has been in contact and they do have it on their list as as liz had had pointed out the the beavers have I mean they've made quite a home there not that they hadn't before but but it's getting to the point where if something doesn't change and and one of those dams would let go it would be very dangerous downstream and I don't say that lightly it would be bad um so to my mind you say very dangerous actually um it's not that bad um I actually pulled for you out the beaver dam out of the pipe in the fall of last year they rebuilt it in two days um and it didn't let that much water out quite frankly it wasn't that large there's a secondary dam that backs up on what they've done um so it's actually under your peace in front of their main dam it's problematic I wouldn't deny it yeah no rooper and I I appreciate that really what it is is if if that secondary dam up above were to let go you look at the the amount of the the size of a water table in that basin there if if at any point that were to let go that that could be pretty bad not not the one in front of the culvert itself yeah thank you yeah um but but anyways select board members that that's just the quick history on this and I know that Steve and I had talked about just bringing some some reclaimed gravel that we had in the in the town pit bringing it out there on on we always use the word on on a rainy day or when things slow down but that that has gone so far away it's not even funny so um that that would be something that I'd say I think would be a worthwhile thing because it would just be strictly with material we already had um and and there's no commitment there to to do any kind of upgrading in regards to a legal status of the road or anything like that it's just making it so that that point is is no longer dangerous are we talking about the section that goes from Rita Rickettson's house over toward the trailhead parking lot is that what we're talking about Paul I'm I'm not familiar but but I know I know rude for on here and that's that that would be the side to be from North Bear Swamp over to the trailhead right it's not it's not from Rita Rickettsons Mary it's not it's it's the other side though it's from Rupert's house over to the trailhead correct and it's been it's been swampy up there for a long time right now it's a lot worse and it's the it's the the material that was in the road over time is washed away so there are big sections of ledge there which are what makes it makes it impassable right now that's right but again are again are I believe and if I help me out here select board members but we've had uh we've had a number of discussions over the last two years about making sure that we at least make our class four roads uh passable and by passable I don't mean walking passable I mean passable by uh by a vehicle if that's if that's possible and try and maintain them and improve them a little bit over time but in no way in no way upgrade them in any way just do a little maintenance a little culvert work here and there where we need to so we so we keep what we have we don't lose what we have right yeah that's my recollection Peter yeah and aren't there um aren't there beaver mitigation um processes you know aside from like killing the beavers which I'm sure does not work nor is it something that we probably want to do but um isn't there like something you can do I remember seeing that maybe Mary kneeling brought it or something there was like a thing you could do yeah there there is there's money I can speak to that a little bit in fact I spoke with someone um Tyler Brown from Vermont Fish and Wildlife Department this morning and whether they can mitigate that I think they can put up beaver fences but it depends on how much flow there is going through the structure and it's easier to put in a beaver fence if there's a wetland above the structure and below but there's a stream channel below so that may be a little bit more difficult and he told me that he's still a couple weeks away from being able to make a site visit so I think we'll know more in a couple weeks I also just wanted to mention um in terms of the the Middlesex Trails Committee we feel like that section of Fourth Class Road is really important for recreation and um I don't I don't know how other people feel I don't necessarily need to drive a car through there but it would be nice if we had you know six or eight feet where you could walk through there and yeah people use it for biking and walking and hiking it would be a real shame not to have that loop well the section from East Bear Swamp to that is definitely not passable with by regular car that's for sure right and then it's at the part that goes from the bottom of your driveway into where you park in the summer the other way from Mary's right the commons up yeah yeah the other problem with it is that at this point to do that would be a huge amount of work um from the parking lot to the commons to the to the west yeah the commons it's it's it is in very very bad shape but nice for biking the trouble is it's being used a lot for by people in four-wheel drive vehicles now yeah and they get in there in early spring and they go roaring through there and dare not make a mess make a terrible mess the middle section right now before the parking lot is it is two foot a month yeah and I'm wondering if if the road were to be upgraded so a vehicle could get through there if it could be fenced off or blocked off during mud season people really do make a mess of it and that was something that Walter had had mentioned would would be to work in conjunction with them because there's there's no actual houses out there um that that could be a possibility too so his main focus was especially because I think 99% of people access that from the north bear swamp side that's the side he was definitely focused on and it sounds like he had spoke with Rupert and Janet and they had a good conversation so I think there's there's not a lot of there's no animosity on this I think it's it's a big asset to both the town and the state and and I think because of the way that it's laid out it can be done fairly reasonably but but everyone's right in regards to on the east bear swamp side it's that that part there to to do anything would be pretty significant even just using material we had absolutely but it's something we can potentially work on over time absolutely every year for a type of thing I mean I I just uh I just I mean I can remember that that road in the old days was was eminently uh passable and it sure as hell isn't anymore and not that not that I want to drive through there in my sports car but uh keeping it keeping keeping it open and keeping it so uh it can be used I think is is well worthwhile and the and the biking and hiking being the probably the probably the primary thing peter you never struck me as a sports car kind of guy oh I am big time want to come to the track with me let's go fully this is another part of Peter that you might not want to get to know you're not going to drive your Mercedes through that road Peter no not good for the 74 Mercedes either but I but I also uh I also I I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of blocking the road off so that we don't get the so that we don't get the mud season damage because that will just undo any work we do all it all it takes is people flying through there and their big mud trucks and it just rips the hell out of everything it used to be posted at the bottom of our driveway I mean the amount of people that rupert pulls out who decide to try it is ridiculous maybe you should just leave them there I that's what I keep saying I love the problem stupid enough to do it you need to stay you know I unfortunately again you know if money was no object and we had we had loads of money and loads of time of which we have neither uh I could promise you we could we could do a lot of things up there but the bottom line is I think working with the state to try and solve the beaver problem and then trying to fix fix the worst parts around the ledge and whatever and gradually gradually make that better is going to be what we need to do and block it off put up put up uh put up signs or actually you know block the block the road like we used to on mccullough uh years ago I think yeah four wheelers when they want to go someplace they're gonna go oh yeah well the four wheelers are bad but the but the but the trucks are way worse okay the four wheelers make a mess motorcycles make a mess snowmobiles can make a mess but nothing like nothing like those uh those trucks and I don't know you know they're they're always looking for places to go and that's one of the one of the places they have on their radar screen and that four wheelers I didn't know there were trucks up there so if it's good with the board um I I I'm gonna plan on at least taking some measurements uh and seeing what what our time would would cost us uh with the material that we have in our town pit to at least bring that to a point where it's I would I want to call it safe uh just to the trailhead itself from from the ending of north bare swamp as an exploration thing and I'm happy to bring that back to the board and go from there yep can I just add a quick comment here one is uh you know maybe the state will cost share since who is oh that's Todd no this is Michael the Michael oh sorry where are you Michael I didn't see you I don't know maybe I'm maybe I'm on the next I'm looking I'm looking at him you gotta pull your screen back and forth Mary I know so um yeah so one thought just make sure that um you have these two things separated in your mind because the beaver pond problem is past where we're talking about access to the trailhead so so it's two different issues on you know what's ostensibly the same road but I wonder if the state would cost share since they're looking for access better access for the public to their trails now that they own that parcel so that you know it's one option the other is unwilling I would tell you they've been unwilling to do that in the past when we've approached them we've asked a lot okay the odds are they don't have they don't have more money now than they did a year ago so that's the second part is um yeah that that other stretch from Coleman's to the trailhead is bad but I guess from the trails committee perspective if there was some way to prioritize at least making it passable for pedestrians and bicycles rather than wait until it might be passable for a vehicle I would like to see the town prioritize that based on the trail committee recommendation yeah of course we're gonna we're gonna take our truck up there full of material it's gonna it's gonna dump material the width of the truck I mean yeah yeah I was thinking the same thing with the equipment that we'd use unfortunately and yeah Michael what do you mean by possible for bike and pedestrian I mean other than the beam upon right now it's possible well it has big poms yeah but for walking and for a bicycle it's not really a problem well yeah it's probably more of a problem for a bicycle than a pedestrian at the moment but it has little poms in it now it's passable but but small improvements especially on that kind of level section would help a lot without it necessarily being being uh drivable with a vehicle that's all I know Paul's been up there a lot he's very familiar with what that looks like well I I agree that the priority is as much as it as much as it irritates me that the the state acquires land the state built that parking lot but they are no interest in helping us maintain access to it I think it's in everybody's interest to prioritize that that situation first maybe well and I'm certainly willing to reach out to Walter again I mean I had a great conversation with him so I'll make sure first and foremost reach out to him especially and uh and see what pennies might be in the the bank there yeah his full name Paul yes I have it I it's Walter opus zitski opus z y n s k i and his phone number is 802 4760182 well there you go thanks Robert to Paul you don't think um you could make a path through there like four feet wide that wouldn't take very long unfortunately I don't have any we don't have anything that's four feet wide now the the smallest bucket I have is five feet wide unfortunately and then the truck is going to be much bigger than that so it'd be essentially the the size of the the width of the truck Paul um would it be I don't know if you'd be willing to but would you want me to help you with that since I have the equipment to deal with that in a way if you supplied them I'd say I it's going to be and I appreciate that it the biggest thing would be the the good graces of the board and and the biggest thing would be looking at time and resources on the highway department's end which I'll be honest is is not not very open at this point that's the hard part I mean I'm just saying if you you can provide the material I can probably move the material around on that path yeah I'd let the board speak on that behalf or or Steve especially yeah Paul lets you and I get together and and go over this anyway and make some site visits and then come up with something perfect sounds good to me and maybe we'll get a hold of you Rupert at that time too absolutely yeah and if something that the middle sex trails committee could help out on just let us know I mean we could provide labor potentially definitely and I'll keep you in the loop anyway Mary just so you guys are on board with that for sure and if we hear back from the from the beaver people let us know mm-hmm and I that's a different issue I understand but I am I am concerned about that beaver situation yeah but I really do not want to see them kill either no I don't think they would I don't think there was any intent to kill them I had not that I'm aware of great that's another thing Paul I can help you take out the clean out the calva because I my machine's right here so you wouldn't be to bring a machine up absolutely no that that I would definitely take you up on thank you I mean the problem is the problem is as you said though Rupert is those those little four legged engine furry engineers are going to plug that culvert up so fast you'd have you'd have to sit there with the case of beer and your machine on to keep it clear you bring me the case of beer it's amazing the work they did it's pretty impressive yeah no it's it's it's amazing and you know I love the idea of the beavers but by the same token they can be a wicked nuisance when they try and go in the wrong place anyway but let's let's see what that let's see what the state comes I mean there there are various various devices to a alleviate the dam being built any higher by put essentially I've seen they call them beaver preventers they're like fairly long culverts and they stretch either side of the dam and they prevent the beavers from raising the dam any higher because the water just runs out through the culvert and somehow because it's far enough from the dam on either side I guess they can't figure out how to plug it up but I've but I've seen those work in a number of places I don't know that I'm not a beaver expert but I've I've seen various solutions but the fence I'm skeptical of the fence just because I don't know how that how that would work but maybe it could work Mary I don't know if you fence them all from the culvert they couldn't jam the culvert yeah but won't they just won't they just run around the fence and I don't know I know they've got several different different methods and I think they choose it based on the situation so yeah it's all situational right right so that's about it I'll make sure Steve and I get together and uh and we'll go forward with at least getting getting some preliminary stuff together and and get some more information from everybody involved thanks everybody thank you thank you stay safe good night sounds like we need some road money guys yeah no question about it maybe maybe Liz has money okay that's a joke Liz okay we're we're way behind now so let's move along um the middle sex conservation committee is requesting us to appoint john utis to the commission actually likely is there a motion I'll make it okay Mary makes it second I'll second that okay thanks Steve so it's been moved and seconded to a port excuse me appoint john utis to the uh middle sex conservation commission all board members in favor of the motion please say aye hi any opposed hi okay we've appointed them great thank you that brings us up to our full nine members on conservation that's great wasn't isn't john you just on that isn't he on john is on the trails committee now the club committee yeah but he's got his finger going in front of his he's trying to clean off his camera so we can see him better oh yes he's on does he want to say anything in honor of his being appointed yeah john you want to yeah any kind of uh uh yeah you're muted they're muted john I think he's trying to unmute himself can you unmute him Sarah Sarah can do that I think he has like an iPad or something he's swiping well he's trying to find the place where he unmutes the microphone can you unmute him there there you go john all right a little bit slow thank you I appreciate it looking forward being part of the conservation committee well thank you for your service as I say we appreciate it yeah welcoming cheers he's the person who talked almost everywhere on middle sex yeah yeah I'll have my dog back soon so people recognize me again okay john well thank you very much for agreeing to do thank you thank you appreciate it okay sir phoenix is is not uh is not with us no he is oh he is okay I'm sorry I didn't see you there oh there you are I got you are my screenies right hello john so uh sorry could you give us just give us an overview of what this request is and what it entails so so I think uh phoenix can probably tell you but we he uh was under the impression that when uh Mike Peltier and um Russ Bennett came in to give their presentation about the red head complex so what they had for their general overall views for this area that when Russ said you know you can get a grant a 700 you can get a grant to put in a hitching post at red hand that that would that we would have written a letter to the state saying we approve or we would like to have this so that wasn't my understanding but I think that this is what this meeting is about um phoenix would like to ask the board uh for a letter to the to v tran saying yes uh we would like a hitching post in front of uh v front of red hen and that would um apparently generate a $500 grant from v trans that for that hitching post and I think phoenix can probably describe where that money goes after that okay phoenix yeah thanks everyone um sorry for the confusion I wish I had just come to the select board meeting last november um it was a crazy time for me uh but so we got you now we are here now though so thanks for having me um so um yeah so the let's take a step back the meeting that I missed was november 19th the launch of uh several hitching posts in the area including um northfield um Montpelier and middle sex um that happened on the 16th of november um so the hitching post is installed it's it's outside of red hen um I've spoken in depth with uh Liza and uh and Russ about having it there and they were very supportive from the very beginning and so um I worked with them and one of the parts of the process um is you know actually reaching out to the town and they're like oh we'll do it no problem and um and so I was under the assumption uh that Russ had worked that out with y'all anyways um it was a busy time and it got slipped through the cracks so following up on it um how it works is basically it's the application is the very short letter um it's a just a letter saying that yes we're in support of this as a community effort um it can be environmentally based socially based um supporting local business whatever take you feel most aligned with um um then that's sent to um uh Dan uh I'm blanking on his last name right now um at Govermont the Govermont program at the trans um basically they have money allotted for these community transportation grants which are in $500 increments um and uh they can be received once per fiscal year so we would this is still the same fiscal years last year so we can still have that go through um but basically what I'm asking for is that the select board uses the template that I have that Plainfield wrote up or whatever modify it however you'd like and just send it to the um the person Dan Courier what's his name um at VTrans I have his address and everything when that money comes back it's sent to the town clerk um and then that goes towards uh paying for the cost of um assembly installation my time the hitching post Vermont's time so we're actually a non-profit now and so uh that money goes towards furthering um our efforts around the state um and yeah so that's the first first item but then don't we assume responsibility for maintaining that in the future no so that that basically the hitching post Vermont is uh like essentially licensing the establishment or town or wherever it's going to use the hitching post and so I that the $500 pays for the materials and the installation and and communication and all that stuff um then I would actually maintain we it's I'm getting used to saying we as opposed to I it's not just me anymore um we would maintain it based off of revenue received from uh grants from towns whatever uh funding fundraising we can do um we have various ideas around that but yes the the maintenance would not fall in the town isn't it a tough time sorry who's was that I just want to ask I don't understand why the town has to administer the money if you guys are your own nonprofit so yeah so the the the grant is given to towns it's through the state so whenever we install a hitching post the town actually writes the letter and receives it and then pays the hitching post from on my question is isn't this a tough time to have people hitching rides with others when we're all supposed to be socially uh distancing excellent question yeah it's you know it's a hell of a time to launch a ride sharing service uh in uh in anywhere in the world right now um it's something that was there's a lot of and there still is it's a lot of support and enthusiasm for whether it's something that people will utilize in the short term is questionable I it's a great in general since there's so many people who need rides here and there yeah totally thanks yeah I think it makes a lot of sense for Vermont um but yeah so basically how I'm looking at it right now is things are basically on hold we had some we had lined up we had Plainfield, Marshfield, Calis, it was the Maple Corner Store uh nursing at the Maple Corner Store the um Atomant Co-op um Cabot online to be launched actually last weekend so that's all been put on hold until probably at the soonest the fall so yeah we're basically what we're trying to do is get catch up on all the things that we didn't have time for until now so that's why I was like oh I should reach out to Middlesex and actually follow up on this and get this hopefully figured out so just just so I understand Phoenix and and you know I like the I think you know I think your timing couldn't be worse but uh right that is in your fault but I just want to get my arms around what's the so the town writes the letter the five hundred dollars comes in yeah we we send the five hundred dollars to your non-profit what happens is there are there closeout agreements that have to be dealt with what what's the process the state's um only requirement is just to see that the job's been done um they want to see that their money is going towards a project that's been completed um okay so if you somehow don't complete this project are we responsible we have to return the money no well the thing is it's already done it's already done yeah I'm not trying to be a jerk I just yeah we try and be very careful about you know every people come to us and they say oh we want to do this it's great you know do this grant do this do that yeah and the next thing you know Sarah is grumbling and mumbling because she's overwhelmed with paperwork and reports and things she's supposed to do and all that is time and money to the town so if this is a simple one-shot thing and you get the five hundred dollars that's one thing but if it's an ongoing process are there the grant I just want to understand what what V-trans is going to require from you you've done the work so what do you do send them a picture of it pretty much yep I I'm good friends with Dan Currier we're in touch a lot and basically it's just send an email with a picture attached to it they know all about the hitching posts and they've been on board since the very beginning when it was Ross McDonald in his seat and so it's it's it's surprisingly simple and easy yeah so you hear that Sarah she's gone oh I'm here I I hear that uh can I just ask Phoenix did you say that the pitching post was already installed when you first yes so it's already built it's done okay where is it it's right outside Red Hen where I would like to say that I actually gave someone a ride from the hitching post in my electric car and he was going to a climate march and it was a man I just I said you know what I'm gonna take a chance with this young man and I did it I was part of it so that was before the pandemic right I hope this is before the pandemic yes down here in the EV charging station what where is yeah there is an easy charging station right here there's one there yeah but that's not why I was there that's where it is the hitching post is right near there yeah it's on the other side okay that oh I feel as first you've talked so just to be clear so the word we should be using is reimburse not in pay for installation because you've already you've already done the work right correct okay other questions anybody I moved that we send a letter to um Dan courier from the gover month v trans to reimburse phoenix to reimburse hitching post vermont for the hitching post that they installed in the middle sex second thank you Lewis uh all those in favor of the motion signify by saying hi hi hi was that four five votes I got Peter's video froze I don't know I'm sorry my computer cut out for a minute did everybody vote aye yes okay go ahead maybe we maybe we should do the thumbs up thing I don't know I like it I guess you're all set Sarah you know what you need to do I'll be in touch with Sarah I guess moving forward yeah yep yes I think I don't know if you sent me a copy of the letter uh phoenix but if you um you uh do I'll just I'll just figure it out I deal with Dan a lot too on all sorts of stuff so it's not a big deal okay I um I'll I'll forward that anyways okay thank you phoenix thank you bye thank you okay Dorenda let's see that radiant smile you're up you gotta turn the microphone on turn your mic on nothing to report what we had issues from last time that needed to be resolved borrowing money or something not until the taxes come in we don't know where we sit until we'll know something in two weeks yep right um once those taxes come in we'll know if we have enough money so we just just to reiterate we basically we've got a short term problem and a longer term problem the short term problem is what are we going to get for for tax money for the last quarter this year and the longer term problem is when are we going to be able to send out tax bills and when are we going to start getting money for next year so it's a two pronged uh two pronged cash flow crunch but right now there's nothing to do you've got you've got everything set up and ready to go if we need to do it right well nothing's really set up I mean I think now with anything the interest rate might even be lower than when I asked her a month ago so um when we're ready to go I get pretty quick when we ask them so I don't think it will be long if we have to borrow okay we do have our funds in the other accounts that we can draw on it you know before we go out and in terms of we really I've been trying to follow all the all the governor stuff which is a little over his press conferences are getting a little uh little boring for me but um we still have no idea when we're likely to be able to send out tax bills correct not that I'm aware of we did receive news on the school which was very good news so we got our last information on the payment for that and it's significantly lower than what we were anticipating that we would have to pay good like eight hundred thousand and we don't have to pay that much what do we have to pay I went down to like seven hundred and something it was like a hundred thousand dollar reduction yeah 720 000 any idea why any idea why it was reduced no just the letter I got that said that it was they sent us what our final amount is and that's not due till 30 days after we have our last tax due day so it'll be the 20th of June that we have to pay that what you know the other thing is there may be some money maybe some stimulus money from the federal government because they're talking is if they want to give money to states and localities and yeah uh you know perhaps there's some it's kind of something where you submit what you need to cover a shortfall so that's something that we to keep I haven't seen that on municipalities I certainly have seen it on businesses no no it hasn't passed but there is talk that the next stimulus bill will include something for states and municipalities hey Dorinda is the reason that the school payment is less due to COVID like that the schools have shut down I don't have no idea they didn't say all they did was send the letter and it basically says this is middle six portion and I think it was you said 120 I thought it was like 106 or something like that so I said the bill was 120 I mean 720 oh this bill was seven yeah so it was about 100 and I think 106 000 lower has that ever happened before that it's a different amount than what you anticipate it's always fluctuate the last payment is always okay but I don't you know I don't have a lot of history on how much it fluctuated previously but I thought that was nice yeah hey we'll take it now we can use it believe me one other thing that I'll just remind you that the board is going to need to address which is totally out of my hands right now but I'm kind of going to bring it to your attention is how we will address sending out notices for delinquent taxpayers because we have not sent anything in two months so they're not delinquent are you talking about no but they're well we've got late right now they're late but um you know as far as our usual past the characters but anything that doesn't come in by the day you know like we had talked about how we were going to handle it um you know basically we took a stand and not to send anything during this time period and but we'll have to address it after the 20th of May may I say something yeah so we should probably bring Dave in one of these conversations because he's a separately elected um he's a separately elected individual he's the elected delinquent tax collector I don't know that he sets policy but certainly you know he should be this is his problem and he probably I know and that's that's what I said we should probably put that on for the agenda I'd also like to just point out that the listeners inform me that they are planning to hold uh they're going to lodge the grand list shortly and they are going to hold grievance hearings at the end of May so even though the state has given towns an extension for uh lodging their grand list those guys and from what I understand across the state this is the same thing because actually Lister's duties have been cut short they can't go into houses so um anyway that's what's uh they're they're they're going to be on time but well that doesn't mean the state will be on time right what's the state yeah don't they have to wait till all of you know towns are in I don't know that's a good question yeah I think they do because otherwise they do the calculation well like I said my understanding is that statewide this is kind of the pattern towns know that the Lister's can't go into houses there's almost no advantage to delaying uh doing these grievances they're going to have they're going to be kind of like some towns are just using their old grant like this year's grand list so we're just you look at some zoning permits you drive by that's it do you know what date they extended it to I think they extended it to July I think for towns it's under under five if you have fewer than 5000 people I think you can go to like June 12th or something like that but they I think they extended that by a month so you're probably looking at at least August oh god again yeah yeah okay Peter well excuse me onward and upward yeah George yeah could I say something from the budget committee now because I can't stay till the end of the meeting sure back at town meeting I thought that one thing we could do is the budget committee would be to meet with the select board and and talk about long-range budget planning including but not limited to the needed renovations on the town hall so we'd certainly be willing to do that and then of course all hell broke loose pandemic so there's a lot right so we're we are planning to have a I'm just going to call it a highway highway related meeting and also at some point once once the pandemic is under control a for lack of a better word facilities meeting which would be talking about things like the town garage and the town hall and and that kind of stuff so yeah yeah we do our thoughts you guys have would be would be great okay great and if you have any a whole meeting a couple hundred thousand dollars in the short run let us know I'll I'll send a check yeah there you go well we're all going to be sending checks in a week or two here this is Liz the anonymous person who paid all the food bills at Romney it was a very nice thing that person did that was very nice um you guys I just have a question I just want to make one comment about you know um you know this what George was just saying in terms of like you know planning for facilities and these these bigger projects um I really feel like we're not going to be able to be having group meetings for a long time and that you know until there's a vaccine it's probably best that we're not having group meetings and so we should really consider starting these conversations over zoom instead of waiting to see when things are going to get better because I think it's just going to be another year and a half before we're having large groups and people you know having big meetings so it's not a bad idea for us to start sort of thinking about some of those big things and the costs of them and doing some of that research upfront so that you know I don't know what it would look like but I I don't think we're going to be having group meetings even in the fall Peter you could be right uh Peter I just want to second what Liz is saying and and I'm actually very concerned about this highway meeting that is supposedly going to happen at the end of May in Town Hall not happy about it I'm going to just like ride it out but I have to disinfect everything and I think it's a risk for the town and I think it's a risk to have them here but I'm going to let that lie right now um is this the time where I could just quickly very talk about what my plans are for the town clerk's office it's promised oh sure okay so just look look let's let's just finish up with that I mean I I think the answer is we should probably plan that that uh highway meeting is going to be a zoom meeting Steve um well that may that may be the case but let's just wait and see what opens up I don't I don't think we're going to have 100 people there I think it's going to be a lot smaller than that I'm a lot more optimistic than Liz is on this but uh anyway let's just see what happens over the next couple of weeks and for us to have a zoom meeting uh I'm going to have to have a smaller meeting with Paul and get some other stuff done prior to it's my concern is I don't want to I don't want to make the decision the week before after we've spent money I mean it's not it's not Sarah's job to disinfect the town hall but if we have to have somebody come in and disinfect it um I don't know who we get and how quick we get them so I'm just I'm just concerned that we can't wait until I can just right before I do but we can also be outside anyway are you holding outside yes we could probably hold it outside that's I don't think that's problem but I'm I'm saying let's just see what happens over the next couple of weeks that was tentatively I think on the 23rd of the 24th of this month yeah I know it's coming right up but both Sarah and I were looking at that probably would have to be down the road further anyway but and and it probably will but let's just see what happens over the next couple of weeks okay that's that's fine um I hate to plan on being an outside meeting because we have no place to shelter if it's counting rain so they'll have to have their raincoats wait a second you could have it at the uh Walter Cali memorial park with a the covered picnic table I don't think you're gonna get much uh much six foot separation you're gonna have about two people there anyway that's true we can open up the doors of the old of the old fire station and hold the meeting in there for the new fire station I don't know guys you know Liz I I agree with your with your comments I don't want to I don't want to put these things off forever we heard a lot of a lot of conversation on town meeting day that people want to be involved in this and they want us to uh set this up so I don't want to make the pandemic business an excuse for us sitting on our hands I want to go ahead but uh let's see what let's figure out what's going on with the road thing first we've actually had more people come to zoom meetings and have ever come into our office meetings so we might actually get a turnout that surprises us yeah I agree I agree um I gotta figure out why my computer keeps cutting out I think it's probably that that mary hood over there watching msnbc using up on my bandwidth with her internet tv well the other thing is you know I plug mine in so it's it's powering at the same time I'm using all this power to have a zoom meeting so you don't end that doesn't have anything to do with the internet bandwidth that you anyway okay I got you okay don't go ahead Sarah quickly okay so um two things I want to just want this let forward sign off on the first is that I need we I talked to avenue insights which is our digital uh land recording system and about moving our land records online so that people don't have to come in the office to search land records going to 2004 they want to go before that they're going to have to go before that the way this works is it will be free it'll take eight weeks for people to do that for for avenue to set that up uh if someone you can peruse them for nothing um but if you want to print out any land record like this if you're a lawyer or somebody else it's going to be three dollars per page for the land record the town will get one dollar and fifty cents out of that the uh downside for the town which is not really a downside currently is that the vault fees so to speak the time that people will be in the office we don't get to charge them but that is only two dollars a half hour so we'll probably make that up pretty fast and it seems to be I mean I've opened up the office in a limited uh limited by appointment only researching so you know people are combining their searches now so if that's okay with you I'm going to go ahead with that is that okay with you I don't see why we wouldn't do that absolutely is this what the town clerks have unanimously decided that they charge three dollars a page and land records appear on uslandrecords.com and that's how that's the agreement with avenue with avenue uh whatever they are avenue insights now it used to be ACS and then Xerox I mean they've been sold five times since I've been town clerk but that's what the deal is so phase two is like a little bit bigger in order to allow in order in order to have the office open for the public I'm going to have to redesign the office entirely what I'm going to here is my plan um maybe Phil you can help me out with this we need to run a cat five line up here to town to the this level of town hall I'm going to bring all of Morica's what we call Morica's recording station as you know Morica's gone I've been doing the recording I actually really love it um and we're going to bring all that equipment is owned by avenue insights we're going to bring it all up here if I can get that cat five I think we're going to have to call rb they're going to have to do some sort of wiring because this is special equipment that needs to plug in right with avenue insights then where Morica's desk is we're going to run a counter a 23 and a half foot counter across uh the room so there will only be one desk there which is currently my desk and if we get back to normal I can get put Dave there on times I'm not there and I'm going to Charlie's offer to build the counter I think he might try to rope in David curl and uh bring down one plexiglass shield so that if we have when we interact with people we can interact without having to wear our masks and everything else and put a half door between the room that room to the conference room and that will allow researchers to come in and do their research in the conference room and on a limited basis where I can no longer have two or three or four researchers there it's got to be one by one by one and only one other person dealing with it's going to be the name of the game for the next 18 months to two years I think I think we're really look that is what we're looking at I don't know what the expense is going to be to bring up the cat line I filled I don't know if you know anything like that rewiring but other than that it's just a matter of turning the equipment off bringing it up plugging it back in and turning it on where are you bringing it up from where Morica's desk is that's that is a whole system that ACS set up for for recording because everything backs up overnight into recording all our digital land right like where is it where is it now at Morica's desk that's all that all you see with Morica's desk the computer all the stuff underneath there the special drives the printer those are all interconnected just it's an ACS system it has to be hardwired it has to be hardwired I talked to him yesterday yeah um you know what I'll give you a call tomorrow okay but we'll have to yeah RBE either will have somebody come or we'll have to get a recommendation it's not hard to do a lot of people who run a telephone cable can run cat five and you know while they're doing it we're probably out of have two or three different drops so that it can be reconfigured however we need to do it as long as somebody's there doing it so where where does that where does the cat five line start right now do you know sarah it's off it's to the left of Morica's desk like right where her chair is yeah but where's where's the other end of the wire is at the server I don't know it goes up the it goes up the wall I don't know where it goes after that it goes like it looks like it goes into the floor I can't figure out where it goes I'm sure RBE knows because they did work with ACS when ACS had to give her a new system about four and a half years ago I would think it would go to the server wouldn't it Phil I think it goes over to the server where it interconnects with the modem and then from there to the outside and what do we have Comcast yeah yeah I think that's I think that you're right Peter that's where it is well I don't want a monkey around with it and I don't want to bring in you know I would rather have an ITP I agree do you know where you want to put the workstation upstairs well partly that depends on that cat five thing I would try to minimize the wiring well all I'm all I'm saying is chances are it's going to minimum for instance if it's if it's at the computer which is right next to the elevator yeah you cut out again Peter Peter's gone he's good I think what he was going to say is we would access the upstairs right there somewhere by the elevator well my only concern is if we ever use town hall again as an educated as an voting place we will I don't want to block I don't want my my desk blocking the elevator you know so that people no no no I can't block no I can't block the elevator but it can be that into the building it's all okay so it can be right here where I am right now let's kind of in this corner right here yeah and there's a well I can tell you yeah all right but I mean once they get inside where you want the desk to be before we run the cat five line is all I'm saying okay great so I would like to do I mean I get it's very strange you know people are insistent on coming into the office to pay their taxes and don't seem to know how they're going to pay their taxes otherwise and then I sell them look at you could just you know put it through a slot in the door and if I'm here I'll take it and I'll process it and give you a receipt right through there but I can't have you know three people coming into that tiny space standing side by side that's just not right this won't work I don't have I don't have six foot I don't have six feet apart to work with there right so so you're thinking of moving yourself upstairs and having them come downstairs with this long desk or the other way around I'm confused so the deal is that I all Marika's desk does is provide recording and so if if uh let's say we get it all set up Dave for example could be downstairs handling the regular parts of being in the town clerk's office and I would use that time to record um or and also archive up here then when Dave's not here I'd be downstairs and dealing with all the people but I wouldn't need to record I wouldn't need the computer I only need I only need Marika's system to do the recording and archiving okay got it so the the only thing I would say is and it's very nice of uh of your one and only to agree to to agree to build this thing we at the very least should provide the materials whatever they are yeah it shouldn't be very much I'm thinking some bead board a half door and here I might have a lead on a counter well yeah but it's probably hundreds of dollars it's not it's not nothing believe me I know well all I'm saying is I don't think it's a lot of money but I think we should uh thank durrinda smiling now anyway that's all we gotta do it emotion on that I would just I would just say uh just say just say do it unless anybody has any questions or objection yep do it we have no choice I can't see it yep right okay thanks I would say one thing what Phil brought up is that they're gonna put that cat five line up there it's nothing for them to put two or three drops right yeah that's a drop I don't know what a drop is drop is the where you plug into the the internet the ethernet cable you just basically put like a a box with a jack in it okay so while they're doing it that's what I was saying you know put put two or three of them you know okay great well I think the biggest expense isn't going to be the wood in the late in the free labor but it's going to be rb tech no I don't think so it's not going to be rb tech it's it's it's they'll they'll tell you who who does it but I agree with uh I agree with Phil it's guys who who wire telephone systems or the guys who do it so yeah the wireclaws telephone yeah well if anybody anyway yeah whatever we'll find it's not a it's not a technically challenging thing to do is what I'm saying but you got to buy the wire and you got to drill the holes in the wall and whatever and then I just need rb to turn it off and set it up again because I don't want to mess anything up if that's okay right great thank you very thank you I think this will be good okay yeah yeah thank you okay now now and now approving April 21 minutes is their emotion some of second all in favor hi hi any opposed uh everybody's favorite subject considering whether to charge the middle sex band staying committee the customary $25 for use of the town hall don't everybody speak at once I already said my piece that I didn't think that we should given these COVID times but that's just me I don't care it's not that much well either way I agree I mean the cost $5 and we get out of it well we would charge them $25 per session you understand that if you want to modify that right but I mean how many concerts do they have and how many are actually likely to be in the town hall well four they all well if it rains everyone tomorrow no they're not doing it no they're not doing it they're not going to have any they're not going to have the band staying concerts at all because of the public gathering danger they're streaming them they're gonna have them like online or something right oh so they're gonna stream all of them from the town hall I didn't understand that and why wouldn't they do it at the school I think that acoustics right Bill probably yeah the acoustics in town hall are much better than in the gym didn't they put an acoustic system in the gym they did but it was just to like for silencing so that it you know wasn't meant for like well I mean there was some talk of that but I don't I think it's too big of a space to really make a difference for that kind of thing if they want to stream it my other question is will it have any impact on what you want to do with moving your equipment up there Sarah you know that's actually that's actually a really good question I mean that's that wasn't when we first talked about that that wasn't a deal if I put my stuff in a corner I might be able to block it off we're not there aren't going to be people dancing they're just going to be a band you know and as long as I don't have like the you know a crew with a Pepsi down there putting it by my computer I suppose it's okay again I'll have to do the disinfecting so that's the other issue I mean this disinfecting is huge it's you know the protocol I've got to follow is I have to disinfect at the beginning of my shift the middle of the shift the end of the shift so what that really means is as soon as anybody comes into research I've got a they've got to disinfect and then after they leave I've got to disinfect so it's like it's covered with lice salt 24-7 does it make sense that they do their own disinfecting or maybe we charge them and that goes towards the disinfecting costs well they'd have to they'd have to do their own disinfecting but I wouldn't just trust that I would do it as well it's you know I don't really even know how much the disinfecting how how important it is it's just that that's in the governor's guidelines well certainly is is somewhat concerning depending upon how many people they have who are playing can they get spread out far enough so that they're actually you know practicing good social distancing another question if they're not I think that really complicates that issue I think they're never been that many people in the in the band no usually what three four maybe right plus you have the issue of Sarah having to secure everything she's got there right so it's not secure by letting somebody in there yeah right yeah well maybe we tell them no then well I'm sorry about that I mean I I hate to have that screwed up but that's if I'm going to move up there by June then that will be right in their schedule so I personally think that for right now we should not let them in there yep yeah the more I think about it I agree what Steve's saying I think that it just it's not a good idea we're repurposing the space to try and make the most effective use of town hall and we're most likely not going to be able to accommodate so yeah better out finding another spot yeah you're probably right yeah I agree I agree with that I'm I mean if we're if this is going to be a long-term thing and who knows at this point we should probably figure out some way to create a for lack of a better word a little office space up there that can be closed off because I don't like the idea of having random people in there and what are you going to do about the other people who use the use the town hall Sarah I really think it's going to be closed until covid's over again we have a we have a meeting issue you have a gathering issue period and I think that it's just got to have to I don't unless we get a miraculous vaccine or the virus just goes away I don't see I don't see any solution no what about letting you see a firehouse that firehouse is gross yeah well that's you know that doesn't bother people in bands they always be in garages the other thing to consider Sarah down the road is possibly you could have people coming in upstairs to pay their taxes and things like that because there would be more room to social distance them yeah that might be if we had a trustworthy elevator well I mean you'd have to like if somebody needed I mean they could still come up the front steps and good weather yeah I think I think you know and again Maria's computer and that's when I'm thinking about where I put the computer that's something to consider if we open up town hall that way I should probably pick a space where you know that's accessible maybe you and I can come you can help me figure out where to put that because you're good at that that would I would really appreciate that so that's a good idea yeah I mean I think it might serve a lot of purposes because there's a lot more room for people to move around up there if you have to look back we just and Weight Watchers doesn't meet here anymore so we haven't had the same use of this and again hasn't exactly been a source of revenue yeah okay and not that many 14-year-old kids birthday parties yeah have to be put on hold well let's let's deal with it let's deal with the situation at hand and uh and then think about the future but I don't I don't disagree maybe this is the maybe this is the time where now you have to have when you're giving people access to the vault somebody has to be downstairs right absolutely yeah yeah well let's think about it but I think your solution for the time being is a good solution we just our policy is we don't we no longer run out the town hall the upstairs okay thanks well isn't that a decision she makes us this as the town clerk we try to work we try to work cooperatively here right I just say it that's the blackboard recommend you consider I don't want anybody to see my nails anyway it's it's too embarrassing well then don't fix your hair okay uh correspondence you you will let them you will let them know um we all got the uh we all got the orders I looked them over quickly but I'll look them over some more and and and respond and everybody saying all right yeah what how can I be late you're not like you just last well I probably laid in last yeah um do we have any correspondence just the stuff I sent you okay yeah um so we all good I mean just getting back getting back to the road thing we got that letter obviously we're not going to block that road off or not not allow vehicles through there that's completely contrary to what we're trying to do and uh certainly no matter what we come up with we're not going to be making that an interstate highway or upgrading it to class three standards or any of that um so don't we have doesn't the town uh road commissioner or foreman have the ability to close roads when it's mud season I thought that yeah yes we do we do so I mean we could just I mean I think it makes sense not to have people using that back there for you know I agree Mary and I think that's something that we will do and more than one spot yeah okay but yeah I agree with everything else you guys said any correspondence no uh any other business I just have something to say so um I mentioned it in an email to Sarah and I just wanted to give a quick update was that um the Red Hen partners or the Camp Meade partners want to conduct a large scale food distribution day um you know with donated food um at the you know people wouldn't get out of their cars but it would be sort of a drive-by thing similar to what the the National Guard did with the MREs except that it would be food that would be made by possibly local restaurants maybe even community members so the meals that people would be coming to pick up it was something that they wanted to do in two weeks but it turns out they're pushing it back to June and I had quickly you know emailed Russ last night saying you know does anyone from the town know this yet it's probably something you want to at least let us know about I'm not sure that any permits would be needed because it well they're working with the state because it's on a state highway yeah um but whether or not we as a town um would need to um aside from just have a heads up is there anything that we would need to do um or uh you know permit can I can I just say why don't they just use instead of being on a state highway why don't they come through the back here where it's safe and they can do it do a drop off right here behind town hall and then pull out can't wouldn't that be better yeah I don't think it's actually at Camp Meade I think it's something like that's going to be literally and I think that they're working with the state in terms of traffic flow because I think it's going they're anticipating traffic is going to be coming from both directions on route two um and so um it's they're going to work those logistics out so that you know cars aren't having to like turn around or you know be doing bizarre things wouldn't I go by the old little cabins and come out the other side I mean yeah I don't know all I know is this is that they wanted to do it they wanted to do it in two weeks and I was like I don't know how you're going to pull that off with getting donated food but they have since pushed it back to June and Russ may or may not you know want to get on the agenda just to explain it to us but it's not where people are getting out of cars it's not where people are going to have to park but there will be you know traffic control there will be volunteers holding you know with masks getting food out there may be a call for volunteers in the town to actually create and package meals I know capstone's community kitchen will be involved in making you know some percentage of these frozen I need to go I only have one concern on that is that that the town be informed of what their plan is right right yep exactly and there I don't think they had an intention or they just hadn't thought of that piece but yes I agree that's why I'm saying now them to be trying to do this I think it's a terrific idea but you know you're right Liz it we we don't want to be driving down there and find it's something we didn't know about right right so anyway it's now being pushed back I suggested that he you know get himself on the agenda once it's kind of finalized so that he's just so that we know sort of what to expect and then um advertisements while I'm going now there's three days in June I'm unfortunately going to open okay guys one good one at a time bye bye Phil are we all done I believe we are done good night everyone have a good night Peter before you sign out yeah I have a piece of paper that has to be signed for Welsh Park I'll drop it off at the town hall okay yep and I take it you