 Good afternoon everybody. My name is Adrienne Harrow and I'm the chief executive officer at the workers lab Where our purpose is to give new ideas about increasing power for workers a chance to succeed and to flourish And that's particularly good today since we're here to talk about workers and very specifically to challenge the existing skills narrative About the role and the value skills training and development play and helping workers Particularly low rate workers of color live better lives. I'm really grateful to soak up into the Kellogg Foundation for Allowing me to moderate a conversation between a group of women who I admire very much and continue to learn a lot from the more That we get to know each other And here they are first is our host Marisa Guananja a program officer at the Kellogg Foundation We also have Janie Grace an organizer from United for Respect We have Angela Jackson This is our second panel together of the day Angela Jackson a partner at New Profit Venture Philanthropy and Last but not least the wonderful Rachel Lauder Executive Director at Working Washington. Thank you all for being here one quick housekeeping item for folks on the other side of the of the platform about Q&A We'll try to get to audience Q&A first time So this is your reminder to keep on dropping in your questions into the chat as you have been We'll try to get them to them as soon as we can So with that is everyone ready to go? Yeah. Yeah Okay, Marisa. I want to start with you You know as a funding intermediary that funds innovation in service of working people I often get asked what I mean by the term innovation, right? And I'm glad that I do because If there were ever a bus term, that's it, right? And so it merits clarifying um And for the workers lab what innovation really boils down to is a racial equity and here's what I mean I think that there's this common misconception that innovation is only about solving challenges unique to workers in the 21st century That is in gig in tech and digital, right? But innovation as we see it new I Should be used as tools to address the unfinished business of the 20th century That is making sure that the policy gains of the 20th century Actually include and extend to all the workers who were left out of them, right? And in our case cut out of the two major federal labor laws in this country. I'm talking about agricultural workers domestic workers Immigrants people with disabilities queer people, right all workers for whom in some way shape or form Were cut out of the major laws That govern work in this country Either because of sexism or racism or any other sort of terrible ismophobia out there New ideas innovation should be used to right these wrongs. I think And I want to ask you what you think about that, right? I wonder how you might apply this racial equity frame To the topic of training and skills development in the conversation about the future of work and workers Uh, we know there's a skills gap, right? But as funders and investors, what should we be thinking about if we are building strategies to close that gap? Right is simply closing the gap enough to close the racial income Or wealth gaps that have been dragging inequality for decades. We'd love to hear your thoughts Yeah, thank you so much for that. And again, thank you to everyone as I said on the other side of this platform For joining joining us this afternoon or evening depending on where you are It is just such a privilege to be here and to be joined by this amazing panel of partners Some of whom we partner with directly through our grant making Some of whom we partner with through broader coalition work and as I've mentioned My name is Marisa Guananthi. I'm a program officer on the family economic security team at the wk catalog foundation So just a little bit about the work that we do on the family economic security team We work across three areas entrepreneurship and enterprise development Job access and job quality, which is the portfolio that I manage To affect systems level change so that families can be more financially and and economically secure At the wk catalog foundation a deep commitment that we have is to achieve racial equity On behalf of children. This drives our work. And so again, I'm so happy that you asked about racial equity Um, when we were first approached about this panel, it was very much about lifting up investment opportunities to address the skills gap But we wanted to bring into this space a conversation that pushes all of us It's a conversation that we're having at the foundation To think more critically about what it's going to take to address racial inequality In all the ways that we see it perpetuated We know as you said that closing the skills gap is not nearly enough to close the racial income or wealth gaps That have been driving inequality in this country Um as a latino woman a latino woman must work 22 months to be paid what a white man is paid in 12 months This is not a skills gap problem A report by the washington center for equitable growth gives some striking data points on the racial and gender divides in the workplace These divides are not driven by a skills gap problem And I should say anything that we reference we're going to try to put into the chat so that you all have access to Um a few years ago We funded brandyce university's institute of assets and social policy to look at structural drivers of racial wealth inequality And I want to lift up two points from two different studies that came out of that project The first study stalling dreams how student debt is disrupting life chances and widening the racial wealth gap What was pointed out there was that in a cohort of students starting college in 1995 and followed for 20 years White students but taken out student loans had reduced their debt by 94 percent With almost half holding no student debt Whereas the average black borrowers still owed 95 percent of their cumulative borrowing total that is not a skills gap problem In unequal paychecks another report coming out of the brandyce work We learned that about a one about about one third sorry of a person's compensation comes from workplace benefits health care retirement paid leave education benefits And yet work has been restructured in a way that isolates many black and brown workers from those benefits um temporary work gig work Contract work have become defining features of work for many And these are circumstances in which workplace benefits and protections are extremely limited if present at all um to paint a picture of of how this plays out i'm i'll and again i'll put this in the chat There's a new york times article that came out about three years ago That introduced us to two women Martha a janitor cleaning apple headquarters today And gail a janitor cleaning kodak headquarters in the 1980s The difference between the life chances that these two women have and had In my opinion can be boiled down to the difference in their status as employees Gail an employee of kodak with access to all of the benefits kodak provided including education benefits That would ultimately allow her to move up the proverbial ladder versus martha a contracted worker cleaning apple headquarters 40 plus hours a week with no access to the benefits that apple provides its employees um What i'm hoping and i think what we're hoping that we take away from this conversation is that yes While there may be a skills gap In order to have the impact that i think we all want to have we as investors interested in impact Need to be thinking about some of the downstream consequences of the investment choices that we make and again This is a conversation that that we are having internally as well You know how our hiring decisions being made in the companies that we're investing in what does compensation look like What benefits do workers have access to or not? Because of reduced labor costs by contracting at work In which case what kind of benefits are companies that we're partnering with offering Or what kind of benefits should we be considering as a public good? In which case we really need the business community and the community that's here at socap to really be advocating for those policies Um, and so I hope those are some questions that that that we can to grapple with here in this space And that we sort of take away as well So i'll hand it back over to you to take us through to the next hour and again just so excited for this conversation yeah, thanks, buddy, so Really great points, and I think the one thing that sticks out to me when we talk about occupational segregation is something that isn't talked about a lot But that merit sort of reminding is that in fact when we talk about a person's wages or salaries Benefits are packed into that right? And when you get into the conversation around Contract work versus traditional w2 work It becomes clear right when we know that contract work Contract workers aren't afforded That traditional set of benefits And because of that continue to lose out even more Especially uh in in a time like we're living in now, right? And I wanted to transition to janice because she organizes a lot of workers who are bearing that front right now Jane i'm so glad that you're here with us You're an organizer with united for respect The organization fighting to improve the lives of workers in the retail industry But before we get into the nitty gritty here, I was hoping you could help give the folks on the other side of the platform a peek into your world What does it mean to be an organizer for united for respect? Where did you start and I think we'd love to hear a little bit about your journey to the leadership position you're in now Okay, thank you adrian um My name is janey christ. I'm from mary in south carolina I got started uh was speaking out and actually Being with ufr while I was working at walmart, um There were just a lot of things that wasn't you know Wasn't right in the workplace and I just But basically just got very vocal about all of the things that Myself and other associates were experiencing um And from there, I just basically um went from being a worker leader to being on stage so Day in or day out I I speak to walmart associates and and amazon associates And just different associates from different retail sectors About injustices in the workplace And right now is is just such a critical moment because of the pandemic So We're just doing everything we can you know to to be there and support workers as as much as possible and Help them find their voices because is needed right now Yeah, I think all of us on the panel would agree with you about that um And as we take everything that you said And put it into the context of the conversation around skills for folks in retail um One thing that I think about often is how training for those skills Sorry, this is my phone that keeps on going off um How we how we uh bring training and skills training uh to workers in industries like retail right we know um That uh workers in this industry are often working multiple part-time jobs Really dealing with unsteady schedules So how should we be thinking how should funders be thinking about tailoring and delivering training to meet these workers where they are actually in their lives um And how should we think about like a mobility ladder uh in an industry like retail? well I think that uh the workers bill of rights will be a great place Retail workers bill of rights will be a great place to start um It just lays out Everything that's needed in the in the retail sector right now um senator Elizabeth Warren and congressman rokhanna. They recognize these realities when they introduce that essential which workers bill of rights and Their policy and framework is like a 10-point course of action and tangible commitments And that they say that it should shape all the future of all covet recovery bills But I think it's something that's just not needed For right now because of the pandemic. I think it's something that needs to be permanent So I think if we could start there um That would help Also, we should also consider putting workers on on the boards because who who who else is better to tell corporate america or ceo's was was was needed On these jobs. I mean they're right here on the front lines and they're working every day In conditions that are right now Not safe so starting there that that that That would be great That would be great being able to have workers opinions and Just being able to hear what they have to say so that Corporate corporate america and workers can work together to give the essential workers what they need And jenny, have you seen anything as it pertains? To skills training development programs either that you've been a part of or that your colleagues have been a part of that are actually working Well, I'll tell you this um When when I got promoted to customer service manager walmart offered academy training But that was something that I wasn't Really a part of I don't know how I slid between those cracks But that that training program I was never offered if walmart could follow through on what they intend to do and what they say Things will be better for associates. They could get the training that they actually they actually need um I don't think it's more so of Just training I think Coming from the retail sector I just think that They need to be How can I say this Training is basically not what they need. They need opportunities They need opportunities right now. They don't have they don't have any opportunities. They don't have any opportunities to advance On these jobs, especially in retail and wall at walmart particularly associates just don't They don't have room to grow. It's like they're stagnant in these positions and these positions aren't paying enough So if walmart could offer or or any large corporation could offer More positions where people like myself woman of color and minorities and indigenous people could move up That would help but I don't see where What they're doing in this moment is helping anyone if anything is hurting them more than more than anything So i'm not really sure about what kind of training programs they they would they could offer but uh Right now they just need the the offer jobs that actually pay a living wage Right and we would agree with you there Last question janey on this topic You mentioned this academy Can you tell us a little bit about what that was like that experience was like and how it served you? That's the thing. I don't I never got to experience that As an associate well as a as a as a customer service manager I was scheduled to go to the to the academy, but I never got that I never got that and from what i've been seeing talking to associates Here recently a lot of those associates who Actually moved up in their positions. They never got to experience it either. It's basically only certain Certain associates had that experience and I wasn't one of them. So I missed out on a lot I mean, I could not tell you what that program had to offer because I wasn't afforded that opportunity I see And you bring up um, you bring up a really good point as it pertains to Skills and skills training right which I think is About priorities So when I talk about what what workers really need it is about it is like in order of priority um, and you brought it up right that in fact, um The most urgent and pressing needs are around things like wages, right? Um, exactly And so has it paid for one Right, right, and so I think everybody on the panel would agree With you there and as we think about Priorities and as we plan For the future of work. I want to transition over to angela jackson at new profit who Is leading that conversation inside new profit um, so angela As we think about that conversation Curious to hear what you're learning about how to best frame Uh, the sort of skills topic there, right? We know from bls data and other Sources that the future of work is In home and health care, right in restaurant jobs retail and other service jobs Which we know are largely, uh, low wage low protection jobs Held mostly by people of color and women of color in particular And so if this is the future of work as we know it angela Uh, what should we be thinking about and doing now to make sure that We're preparing for that future that skills and training Development best serves workers now and in that future Well, first of all, I'm really excited to be here and this is such a timely conversation First I love that we are starting to bust this like skills narrative and skills gap narrative Like I've never heard a CEO miss their corporate earnings because they said that there's a skills gap, right? If you look at research that has recently came out from opportunity at work They're saying that 71 million americans mostly black and brown low income have the skills already to do higher wage jobs What they don't have is maybe a bachelor's degree, right? And so what we know is that a lot of employers are asking for bachelor's degrees Advanced degrees for positions that really don't warrant them. So what we're looking at in the future of work is thinking about Is there another way to certify People lived experience and the training that they're already bringing to the table What we know from this pandemic as we look at new profit and the work that i'm doing there is that People don't have time to go back to get a four-year degree. They're looking for accelerated learning programs They want to know that if they actually do this training that someone's going to accept an employer Like it's going to end in a job and then they're thinking about like these wraparound supports I love what janey said like hazard pay and the benefits, you know, it's something i've been calling the social determinants of work Like what needs to be true for people to be actually in a mindset to to upskill one to you know Have the time to do it versus like piecing together two or three jobs that don't pay a living wage So what we thought about at new profit as a philanthropy is how could we enter the space and incentivize different behaviors? So we launch what we call the future work grand challenge and and what that is is two parts One is about offering accelerated learning programs So thinking about how people can train for the jobs of the future in less time with less cost But also listening to actual workers who've informed our strategy We are really attuning to what are the wraparound supports. So again, what are child care benefits? What does transportation benefits look like, you know, again, what does Additional pay for being an essential worker when you've not paid for that So how do you put accelerated training options together with the wraparound supports? To make it viable for people to actually think about be in the position to think about upskilling for the jobs of the future And adrian to your earlier point. We know what the jobs of the future are How do we begin to make those living wage jobs and paying them what they're worth? Right, that's that's the big question that we have right now that we all have to grapple with One way that we're thinking about this A new profit with this future of work grand challenge is one is We're having innovators come up with these ideas and different business models to bring these trainings to bear to make them more affordable And we're also bringing them and partnering with workforce boards because we're thinking about policy and we're thinking about job centers So how do you bring these, you know Training programs that maybe most people can't access similar to what janey said, you know You have to be picked or you know win the lottery or happen upon a website to find out about this training How do we make it more accessible and bring down? This whole title about the future of work and just make this training more available So we're doing that with job Workforce boards and we're bringing the training the job centers where people can actually access them, right? Because the digital divide is real They may not be able to get on their computer to do it But they may be able to take a bus down or walk down to their their local job centers So we want to see how that works the other piece that we want to acknowledge and I just want to call out One of my colleagues one of your colleagues marisa To me to a man's field bridges man feels we cannot train our way to equity You know everything that we're doing at new profit is centered on worker voice So as a as a funder one call that I want to put out to the people who are listening on the other side is How are you involving the people who are most proximate? How are you involving the people who are experiencing covet? Who are working two or three jobs who are homeschooling their kids during the day, right and working at night and really thinking about What does training mean? As it relates to their lived realities So as we do this work The one thing I just close with is that we are not investing in any entrepreneurs Or solutions who cannot tell us that they are proximate with workers that they've experienced poverty That they are led by a person of color That's just brass tacks on how you enter the door and we're being very unapologetic about that Because we know that idea of innovator is that we need a different type of innovator with a different type of lived experience to really meet this moment Thanks for that angela. Um What one of the things that you brought up is like We know where the job growth is going to be right and one of the things that I struggle with in this issue area is Uh around sort of training that matches training now that matches where those jobs are going to be in addition to making sure that Those jobs become good jobs At the workers that we run an innovation fund three times a year, which is essentially a grand competition Which is how we primary mechanism for like finding new ideas, right? And when we see stuff in the issue area of skills and training the number one Uh challenge in those in that particular universe of applications is that uh as least as we see it Like a lot of the training programs that are out there aren't necessarily based in that reality Right, there's like a lack of matching That training with the jobs that the labor market is or will produce and so I wonder if you Um what you're learning in that regard, right? Have you seen any any training programs any skills development programs that actually lend themselves um To the jobs that the labor market is actually going to produce Well, one thing that we started doing was just asking any innovator or entrepreneur Who is applying for funding to really base their solution in like real-time data analytics? That's one great thing that has come with the the president of work. We know who's hiring in which area So we know what jobs are currently available. So if you look at burning glass If you look at um mc if you looked at linkedin data that data will tell you right there So we're asking innovators to tell us okay if you're training for this program You've got this, you know best-in-class training. Tell us who's actually hiring for that training right in boston's inbox What companies do you have those relationships? Because one thing we know no one trains to train They're training with the end result of like actually getting a job And so one thing we know is that a lot of people have had uneven experiences Upskilling and it's what marisa mentioned earlier You got black and brown people who have went back to school who went through training But they've not seen the pay increase and they've received a lot of debt So we want to make sure that we are not perpetuating that problem by Investing in entrepreneurs who are not thinking about and have a clear plan for how their training ends in a job And so we're agnostic to what that sector looks like But we want to invest in entrepreneurs and ideas that actually have a clear path and they can show data about again How their training is going to end in a job with a livable wage Right And last question on this for you angela, you know Janie brought up the point around sort of policy intervention in this in this issue area And so I wonder if you could speak a little bit about how To use policy as a tool to incentivize employers To train at all levels Yeah, there and there's a couple things there was a research report out Probably about a year and a half ago from the annie casey foundation and the joist foundation And it found that when you looked at employers 80 of them spent their professional development dollars on their highest level executives and their middle executives, right? Money was spent on entry level workers And so we're thinking a lot like about how do we begin to prove that case? One that employers there is a return on investment in Investing in entry level workers. That's one but two how do we leverage policy in a way? That makes it more attractive for companies to do the right things in terms of tax breaks and policies And so that's where we're going our partners at america ford We're putting forth policy recommendations to both Yeah, the trump administration and biden. We don't know where that's going to land But we feel like if we're going to see really systems change and wholesale change We need to see education and upskilling as a benefit people are expecting that at work You know, I'll just I'll end with this, you know, I I come from a family of factory workers I was talking to my uncle. He started and retired at johnson motors and he told me in 1968 He earned five dollars and 68 out 68 since an hour Right now that would be effectively 20 dollars an hour, right? And he had benefits. He was able to raise a family My family was too and we know that that's not true today And so to figure out how we can incentivize employers to change their practices, right? So the actually raise a family and have a living wage Thanks, angela um, rachel i'm coming to you next um with uh With the topic that bodies I think teed up really nicely in the context setting at the beginning Which is about Hell this issue sort of plays out in the in the context of contract work or in the gig economy um You lead what I think has to be one of the most innovative organizations aimed at making the lives of Workers in the gig economy better And I think it's a hard job Uh for a lot of reasons uh chief among them is like there's not this one Organization centrally that bind all of these workers together, right? For folks out there who may be unaware who we're talking about or who gig workers are We're talking about folks who operate technically as 1099 contractors, right? And work on platforms like uber postmates instacart, etc Who by and large had virtually no access to things like traditional w2 workers have right so the minimum wage sick leave health insurance um And rachel I sat in on a panel A couple of weeks ago where we were talking about skills and training for gig workers specifically and while I appreciated the topic Something felt a little off, right? And again, I go back to Jane's great point, which I think is about priorities, right? We were talking about skills and training with no context around Wages around benefits around like the automatics, right? And so something felt a little bit cart before horse um, and so I wonder um How you how you think about um This topic inside the universe of gig work, right? How to move and begin to think about The development and the delivery of training programs in the context of contract work where there's technically no employer Um, we'd love to hear what you're learning or thinking thinking about in this regard Oh, great. Thank you. And thanks for Having me here. So as adrian mentioned and the executive director of work in washington We're a multi industry workers rights organization We've been organizing with thousands of app-based delivery workers across the country And to echo what many of the folks on the panel have said is that the number one issue we're hearing from workers is pay Pay in the industry is just too low. We've done studies collected from data directly from workers Where after backing out modest expenses like mileage reimbursement and payroll taxes Pay is less than two dollars an hour for some of these workers on apps like door dash, which is, you know Just unbelievably Untenably low. Um, as mercer mentioned, you know, they are workers who are classified as independent contractors So they're not subject to minimum wage And you know, these structurally disadvantaged workers have few protections and there's a racialized element to this, right? They're primarily black and brown workers. Um And I think I just wanted to share a few observations I think that we generally collectively define how much a How much skill a job requires based on what it pays and not the other way around, right? So if if it's low pay it must be low skill and then the opposite is true, you know, if it's high pay it must be high skilled Um, but I think it's important to remember that these gig workers are working these jobs often because they can't do other traditional jobs Some of them a lot of them have chronic illnesses and disabilities They have family situations. They're young mothers. They have their caregivers They are going to school and all of that requires a certain amount of flexibility So I think it's important that, you know, we sort of think about the gig economy and think about the whole worker Which is that these folks aren't necessarily low skilled already. Um, they're just they need to do this work for other reasons You know, we fundamentally believe that workers are experts in their own lives and we should trust them To know how to make their jobs better and how to make their lives better I think that to me one of the interesting things is hearing so much from workers about doing this work while they're in school So these workers are basically credentialing themselves in the way that they want to while Realizing that other low wage work isn't necessarily available to them because frankly the schedules don't work, right? No advanced notice of your schedules um The, you know, clopenings, which is when you have to close a shop and then open a shop You know, no ability to actually have any say over how much time you spend at work Is a really big issue and the gig economy frankly solves some of that for these folks um one other observation I would make that I was um Talking to one of my organizers about this and she was saying that a lot of our worker leaders often come to us asking for references So I thought this was really interesting because basically what's going on is if you're working in the gig economy And there's sort of a myth that all gig workers are part-time workers, right? That just not the case many of the gig workers are working 30 plus hours a week on these apps, but there's not um Traditional paths for getting into other kinds of employment So figuring out, you know, how do you get a reference from somebody? How do you describe the skills that you've actually developed in the gig economy? I think is one of those places that we are hearing a little bit from workers that like having some Paths and tools for that would actually be helpful to them yeah, um I have so many questions about this, but the one thing that I that I'm thinking about a lot and like, um You know, you mentioned that you talked a lot about the nature of these jobs, right? And the one thing that I that is hard for me to wrap my head around is like, um Uh Jobs in the gig economy are not inherently bad jobs, right? um People have made choices to make those jobs bad jobs, right and I just say that because I think um There it is what it is, but there's also I think so much opportunity to build um and to use um gig jobs jobs in the gig economy um As an opportunity to highlight what a good job But for by and large is not right and build um while folks in power are making decisions about The future of that work and those workers and so um Just wanted to affirm all of that because I think it's a super interesting Area with a lot of opportunity Angela, I want to ask you a follow-up question about this topic. Um I said earlier that like um There is technically no employer here, right when you're a 1099 contractor So I'm interested about your thoughts about even the fact that there's no employer As we talk about skills and training Who who could you talk a little bit about who you think you want the hook to pay or administer a program like this? Right. Um, so very easy for us, you know, when I started looking at you know, where people go for training And I mentioned this earlier looking at workforce boards and the american job centers, you know, there are 538 workforce boards across the country, you know, there's close to two Two years They're federally and state funded to do training When I took a look at them them very in terms of like how Their delivery and how tied they are to local labor markets, right? So some are doing an exceptional job and some others are doing a more uneven job But they are federally and state funded and and some of them are funded through philanthropy like ours So really looking at that to the tune of like billions of dollars, right? So it really would behoove us and what we've tried to do is with our leverage our philanthropic dollars Is to work with this entity to want to talk about like what does a modernized workforce board or job center look like To understand how do workers find these job centers and then try to think about what does that customer service Look like because we are we're in this moment of you know forever learning, right? It's not like you're gonna learn something and be done This moment is calling for us to kind of relearn skills on a regular basis And we have to find out where there's affordable way to do that When to your point adrian an employer is not involved and so at that point We've got to look at some of our government entities and thinking about upskilling as a right lifelong learning as a right That's a great point and I have Maybe a question for you and Rachel or whomever wants to pop in is like You're talking angela about the entity, right or the institution that would be on the hook I've often thought about like um, and I just would pose this to the group. What about community colleges? Um, where in your work? Is there a role for community colleges? To play in this regard Yeah, I can kick off there So when we think about the boards and lots of boards and job centers already work with community colleges You know dollar for dollars. Sometimes they're the best bet from some people in our community, right? So you don't have to take off student debt to go there a lot of it to to finish there But we just need better alignment and what we're seeing is just everyone is siloed You know, you've got the boards and job centers having one set of training You've got the community colleges that have another set of training You have the employers who have different needs and the problem that we've seen is like no one's coordinating And when it when they are coordinating it works Well, and you have some really beautiful, you know community college experiences when it's not working You have people who are going through training ending up with debt and and don't have a job to show for it Yeah, um Great and so when that's quite on the gig economy point, I wanted to actually ask another follow-up question to uh, Marisa um Who I think started to teach us up at the beginning um I want to ask you about the role of venture capital Which cannot be sort of overstated in this universe, right? Marisa was wondering if you could talk a little bit about What venture capitalists should be thinking about on this topic and more broadly about um What they should be thinking about in terms of aligning and or tying their success metrics To the success of workers Well, that was that that's that's a big one. Um, so a couple of things here like I think So I get us back to our sort of policy and systems change conversation and I don't know that this is um, you know, I think Impact investors venture capital Venture philanthropy I mean needs to be thinking again downstream is what I sort of mentioned before Is that you know There's an esg conversation, right? That's happening the environmental social governance and we haven't built out The as part of the conversation to really be about job quality and to think about job quality And I think that's something we need to be thinking about and and spending some time in in a way that's global right in a way that's about Minimum standard for all workers regardless of of your standing in ab5 in california I think started to get to some of that for gig workers Or like what is a minimum standard? If you are earning money, what is the minimum standard of benefits? That should be afforded you regardless of your of your employment status Um, so that's that's one piece, but I do want to actually so one thing I've been thinking about throughout this session It's like who gets to define what is skilled and what is not um, and I've been really struck by this, um, I think Even very recently right like home health care workers nannies child care workers daycare workers um, are some of the lowest paid Jobs in our economy and yet I would argue are really some of the most skilled You know, I I watched Women of color coming in to my grandmother's house and taking care of her Doing some of the most skilled work that I've ever seen and then taking incredible Care both of her physically and emotionally and so I do think there's this conversation around who and I think this came up in the chat as well Um, you know, how do we define skill versus unskilled? How do we just bring dignity into into jobs? I think that's just something that I'm sort of grappling with in this conversation and more broadly I think you're muted. I was just sort of transitioning us to, uh Q&A time and I don't I don't know if Marisa you see anything of the chat um Quite yes, but I would remind folks if you have questions to put them in the chat If not, I can just do a round robin with folks as we get ready to close Yeah, and I would say I think there is an opportunity as well if folks want to come on stage I might I might be I might have that right um and add to the conversation also welcome to do that as well Okay, well folks sort of populate questions into the chat. I'll just ask the same question and we'll go around the group here, which is um as we close and think about Through the themes in this conversation. What's What's one question you would? Want to leave with the group listening in today? Um, and I'll start with Angela and then we can go around the horn Yeah, I I'm thinking a lot about as as an investor Even the impact investors we have on the other side is the power that we have Um, and I mentioned this earlier and I say this a lot that you know, we are you know We are in the moment funding the future of work like we're making it with our funding decisions And so how do we take accountability for that? Right? How do we fund differently? You know, look to our left and our right step up and try to be lead You know lead in funding one thing that we've done at new profit is like we've opened up our processes To make them transparent on how we fund how we're centering racial equity Um, and we're thinking a lot about those downstream consequences, right? And and bringing those into the room when we're making investment decisions So, you know my call to action or where I would leave, you know, my fellow funders here is to really think about You know, we're we can't wait for someone else to do it Like we're doing it real time and really to take that accountability seriously Great, and I think we actually have a couple of so before I go to everybody else for their, um Their question they want to leave with folks um Marty said there's a question here for you around if you could say more about the power to define skill Well, I think there's a there's a narrative change component to this, right? Like I think that like when we talk about the skilled workforce or or um low wage workforce I think what we see in popular media, um is um It is a narrative that suggests that if you don't have and it gets back to what angela sain earlier too Like if you don't have a bachelor's degree um, if you don't have um, you know a set of Of credentials Then then it is unskilled work, and I don't think that's true. So I think there's there's a narrative component that is much that goes beyond The training that I think, you know, we need, you know, we need All hands on deck to change the narrative around what is skilled versus unskilled Marisa I would just add also we know that this is very gendered, right? And it has a racial Tens to it too like who populates those jobs who have historically populated those jobs, right? And so all of a sudden they're unskilled and so I think we have to push against that narrative like Lately pushed against it Yeah, um, there's another question in here about how education system flash school districts I'm going to assume that means school districts set students up for success that are entering the workforce Um, and I know we talked a little bit about this this morning angela. I don't know if you can bring in some of alex's Comments from this morning because I think they're apt for this question Yes, so one of our colleagues, um alex bernadette from the founder of beyond 12. It's based in, uh, california just really thinking about um When covet hit like what are the live realities of the students that they're up against? And she was just sharing that you know, a lot of the students they realize once covet hit that like school was like the center of their universe their safe place Um, so when there wasn't school anymore, you know, they didn't have access to internet They didn't have their teachers. They didn't have their their regular schedules So really thinking about districts thinking about students holistically and really understanding what they what they mean The the role that they're playing in the lives of students and making sure that they're prepared to meet that right okay, i'm going to go to um rachel for Uh a question you may want to leave the audience with today as we as we get near closing I mean, I I would just leave with some thoughts about you know worker voice in Sort of and relying on workers as experts in their own lives about how we're sort of designing these jobs and And thinking about pay and I think it's sort of similar to some of the things that janey mentioned which is you know invest thinking and when investors are thinking about what companies um to invest in considering Like how you're talking about, you know, who are you talking to? What do you think about with workers voices? Like how are they involved in just Understanding what the industry is because what we've just found is that in the gig economy pay just keeps getting lower and lower because it's Obviously, it's you know the the incentives are just reduced labor costs as much as possible for profitability purposes but There's an opportunity to make these jobs really work for a 21st century economy But workers aren't being heard about what they need and so I just you know would urge folks to really think about the worker experience in This new economy um and talk to them and you know The worker if you if you don't know where to find workers, it's pretty like we figured out how to do it Right, and so I think that that's another thing that we're always interested in which is like What are the pathways for actually getting meaningful feedback? from the workforce Yeah, it's a it's a It's a silly thing to not be able to find workers, right? And if anybody can't out in the audience Anyone of us on this panel and we can help Do that I'm raising a great point that really I think brings home What janey said earlier about the importance of worker voice and governance? in that piece Marisa What's one question you want to leave the group with today as we get the close Sure, so I'll answer the that question I think there was also a question in the in the chat from from joe that several people have have plus one that I I'll try to address I think one question is is frankly just like what is the role of the folks in this room and the folks at socap and Policy change and an advocacy. I mean, I think we really need the support of the folks here to you know If if there's an argument to be made that if there's A business case for shedding labor costs Um, if that's the case then we need a more robust public good conversation and I go back I was I was part of a round table a year or so ago Where with a with a group of business owners all of whom were complaining about The cost of health care and not wanting You know to have health care like as a it was a huge cost on their books And yet when I asked the question Okay, like where are your where is your voice in the policy conversation? around Medicare for all like just just as a as an example There was there was silence, right? So like I feel like we can't have it both ways if we're really talking about about equity Joe's question that that I do want to address and I don't have a great answer for joe and his question was you know that that You know He's heard that that bachelor's degree is a proxy for social-emotional aka soft skills. Um, is there an alternative? You know, I would say like I I'm not sure that it's a great proxy, right? Like I think, you know, I grew up with folks who who didn't have their bachelor's degree Who have much better soft skills than? Most of the university of michigan undergrad that I see like walking up and down the street. So I just I think I question um I don't know what a good alternative is but I think that uh I would I would say we definitely need other proxies if we're using education status Um as a proxy for for soft skills So I'll leave it at that I would just add I would just add of um I think that that's right. I think the sort of the assumptions of it and figuring out mercy we're talking about narrative change, which is you know, there's a whole I would just think about it from the gig worker perspective there's a whole set of skills the gig workers develop around customer service, right and I mean, I think it's primarily customer service, but just in logistics that they are having a hard time sort of Sharing or selling to other folks and so in some ways I feel like the folks in this room Our job is to think about how we talk about that set of skills for workers and Give them, you know, give them that like the toolkit and the narrative work to like To sell themselves as opposed to being like, oh, you're obviously the assumption is you're obviously unskilled um He's got to be a little bit of the flipping great, um Okay, I think I'm not seeing anything else in the chat. So I think I'm going to um, go to janey to bring us home Um, and janey if there's anything you want to leave the audience with an inside or a thought or a question And now's your time Oh god First I just want to say, um Walmart didn't invest in me in training and at the same time I was going to school to get my bachelor's degree in social work So it just makes me wonder to like how many other people are falling through those cracks And those of us who are doing essential work keeping this country fed supplied and healthy Should not have to go through training to have economic stability in jobs. We have we need to raise the floor We need to establish standards with the essential workers bill of rights As well as making sure everyone can move up to new opportunities if they so choose So we have to decide as a as a society That economic stability both better pay and fair scheduling health care full-time jobs Are rights everyone working Everyone who's working should have And lastly we need to be designing training programs and the conditions of Of work we have Towards a worse towards a rush We have workers who actually sits on the mirror board for towards a rush So we see that it works. We see that Workers being on these boards and speaking out. We see how it helps and that's what's needed So that's what I want to leave with everyone today We need more more workers standing up being able to speak out about conditions that they're going through not corporate america I think a terrific way to end We had a lot of like nodding heads. Jane. I don't know if you saw that on the panel and so I think Unless any of if any other the panelists want to say something else. I think We can leave it there. Does anybody else have anything to add? awesome Well, thanks again to all of you for making time for this conversation And for all the insights and thanks again to so cap to kawas for having us Thank you Thank you. Thank you everyone. Bye