 Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. We have an extraordinary panel, so I'm going to be very, very short in my introduction notes. We're just talking about the new lead character. So we exactly will define what that means. But pioneers in global film and television industry have set out to tell us their stories. They celebrate human complexity and human diversity. So what happens in a society when actually global popular culture includes a more diverse group of leading characters. So I'm very pleased to welcome a pretty impressive panel from all walks of life, from all walks of the world. This is where you get at the World Economic Forum. We have four panelists, four countries, four regions. Haifa Al Mansour, independent filmmaker, Saudi Arabia. Waja, thank you so much. Mr. Karan Johar, head of Damar Productions India. Thank you very much. Jingxing, choreographer and owner of the Jingxing Dance Theater in Shanghai, People's Republic of China, and Forrest Whitaker, social activists and sustainable development goals advocate to Whitaker Peace and Development Initiative from the USA. Thank you all for joining us. Now as we pause and reflect a little bit about lead characters, my first question would be, what exactly is the role of entertainment and film? Is it to entertain or is it actually to educate? Haifa. Well, it's hard to separate the two. It's hard. You don't want to make a film that is boring and only like educating people. That is what they pay for to go to the cinemas, right? They want to go and have fun, and have dinner and talk to their friends. But also, you don't want to make those empty films that people don't get something out of it. And especially from places I would speak about where I come from, from Saudi Arabia. Like it's a place that you want to open and you want people to be more tolerant. You want them to see the hidden lives of women and their aspiration and that they want to move forward with their lives and have, like, lead something different. And for me, when I make a film, I don't want to separate entertainment from having to say something that is meaningful to me as a person. But also moving away from big slogans. It's not like we are not, we are activists, but we are artists as well. So it's always that balance where you have to bring a human character that people can relate to and understand and feel their pain and feel their happiness. And that is how, for me, how to bring the two. And where I come from, I think film and entertainment should push the values of tolerance and move the society forward for sure. Karan? Well, I'm dying to give you a socially responsible answer to that question. And I would love to kind of say that my cinema has moved mountains, but it hasn't. I come from a country which is largely, has been an entity. Cinema has been a tool of tremendous entertainment. There's been lots of song. There's been lots of dance. There's romance. There's drama. In fact, there's melodrama. We don't believe in drama. We believe in excess. It's only in the recent past where there's a certain social accountability that has crept into the fabric of Indian cinema. It's the last decade where I feel films, and for those Indians in the room who know their films that really is last year, a film called Dangal, which talks about women empowerment, a film called Pink, which again addresses the issue of Eve teasing, which is a predominant issue in India. And some of us are now, and I made a film called Kapoor and Sons, which touched upon homosexuality for the first time in mainstream Indian cinema. I feel accountable today, but I haven't done anything that has been socially relevant in that scheme of things. I've made mainstream films. I run a studio. For me, commerce has always superseded art. But today, when I sit in my chair and I see the importance of what's happening in cinema worldwide, I feel very accountable. So it's a recent phenomenon. It's a recent movement. And sitting in Davos and the World Economic Forum, I'd love to sound more profound about the work I've done. But unfortunately, I can't. I think you're just being modest, falsely modest. No, I'm just saying. You're moving the needle. You're pushing boundaries. I would love to give you a response. And if you go through Wikipedia and look me up and you see the movies, you will probably laugh if I try to sound too clever about the work I've done. So I'm just going to say that the big modus of my cinema has been to entertain. But there has been a dramatic shift in the last 10 years. And that's because there is a certain accountability. Call it the phenomenon of social media. Call it the fact that the media has become such a prevalent force that you feel like right now you need to do something strong in the world of entertainment to make a mark. And I see that happening not just in India. I see it happening in Hollywood and China and in Saudi Arabia and everywhere in the world that makes movies. I feel suddenly filmmakers feel responsible. I don't know how much of that is genuine. I'm trying to pretend to be. Half of me feels it. Half of me is still getting there. G.G. We are talking about my background. I come from a theater background. I'm a dancer. 20 years ago, I tried to bring contemporary dance to China, developing the modern dance scene in China with a private company with my still dancing with next this weekend. It was very difficult. I was so naive. I thought art always can touch the audience. But it's not a case anymore. In China, I think at the end of the 70s, beginning of the 80s, that time the TV business was not that relevant. And people going to the theater to see dancing theater concert is a normal action. But now everybody stay home. They don't go to the theater anymore. I was longing for the people come to see me dancing, which doesn't work. It's trying so hard. Until 2011, I said, OK, I need changing my strategy. Then I started getting into the TV. I started to become the judge. We import a lot of TV shows, so you think you can dance, Chinese-scaled talent. I was getting on the panel. I was straightforward. I had a name called the Chinese Sam Cowell. Simon. Simon Cowell. Yeah, people love me and people hate me. Some people say, she's a wonderful person. She's a bitch. Whatever. Same time, I got the attention. And then three years ago, I started the first talk show in China. Now I become every Wednesday night, I have 100 viewers watching my talk show. And people look at me and say, where's she come from? And I probably say, she's a dancer. What kind of dance she's doing? She's a contemporary modern dancer. What is modern dance? And now, since two years ago, every year, I have a seven-month tour with my company, nationwide, international. And people just rushing to the theater because I always non-stop. I said, listen, audience, dancer is my profession. TV host is my set job. My part job, I can quit any minute. But I always on stage. That's why I bring a lot of people through the entertainment. But the TV business, bring the audience, come to the theater. That's my way to get into people come to theater. I mean, the TV business is 100 million viewers. Let's make it very clear, which is huge. That's Chinese big countries, compared to 100 million is nothing. But we don't have tweeters. I have a mic, how does it block? Every day, even though I'm sending it, I have 11 million followers every day from China, all over China. Yes, well, they're not just saying what I'm doing here. Then, of course, the talk show is speaking out a lot. But I think that from talk show, I bring the people into the theater, what I'm doing. I'm also acting, also I'm singing, also dancing. That's the art from, that's why I give people, OK. Art, I think, always guide and give people hope. But from entertainment, I bring the attract attention to the theater. That's my way to dealing with my people. But are you the same person when you're on TV? So what's more educational? OK, because the TV business is very tough. You are, well, I'm a dancer, I'm more myself. But on TV, on a talk show in China, opening a talk show, two weeks ago, I started writing my 100 episodes. I was like, wow, nobody can believe it. And I can tell you the story. 10 years ago, I moved from Beijing to Shanghai. I was sitting there drinking coffee with my girlfriend. I said, look, one day I'll be the top talk show host in China. And my girlfriend said, drop it, impossible. In China, we never have a talk show. Then I said, OK. And three years ago, I lunched in the talk show. Of course, the topic is very sensitive. Certain things I cannot criticize. Many, many things I cannot touch. For example, in America, if a talk show, you're teasing about the president, joking about the stars, everything. But in China, everything is sensible. You cannot touch. How we can survive. OK. Let's say I'm talking about the family, talking about the marriage, talking about the relationship, education, and through all things, then I try to start sending the message. What's the social value of today? That's why also I'm an actress. Certain words, I cannot straightforward. I use my acting skill. I give my eye look to the audience. Get it? And people say, get it. So a lot of the things, that's what technique of Chinese words and vocabulary, are a lot of things under the table. But people sense that. That's the way I'm dealing with this in talk show. That's why I was working with my teams. I think a wonderful job. But also, just like before I went in the room and talked, two weeks ago, I launching a new show, Chinese Dating. The family parents bring the Chinese matchmaking. Father and parents bring the boy looking for the future daughter-in-law. And the mother bring the daughter looking for the... That's when you started India. Exactly, these shows on the surface. On the surface, people think it was just dating show. But no, I true the dating show, I was sending my message as what's the Chinese family value according to the marriage? And how they're raising their kids with one child's policy. And this year's whole, when they become young people, two family getting married, engaged together, that's a tremendous issue to discuss about it. And that's why now this is every Saturday night, 8.30 PM on China, people debate about this. That's, I think, I choose metaphor or entertaining to sending the message, I really want to say it. Enforced, are there any taboos in Hollywood? Taboos? Taboos, we talk about taboos. We talk about entertainment versus educational. How can you educate? Certainly there are taboos in the system. I mean, there are certain subjects that aren't touched as strongly as others. They're trying to do better. You're talking about homosexuality. There's films that are coming on more strongly. There's films that deal with gender issues and things of that nature that haven't been there before. But I think that people are trying to explore all these areas. They're recognizing that in these areas, there is an audience of people who want to explore that and understand that. And that audience can be opened up to those others who are interested and curious. And it's happening a lot in our cinema. I think we'll see it a lot. I've had the experience working on films that people would think, why are we doing this? Take for instance, culturally, there are not that many Native American films or Native films. We produced a film recently about that. Sauce My Brother Taught Me. And there was different difficulties as far as distribution and different things like that. But the film was made. And I think that there are opportunities now to try to reach in and tell stories that we never have told before in ways that we've never told them before. It's like a, this is a film I just saw, a film, Moonlight. Which is quite, quite an interesting film, a beautiful film. And I think that it explored a lot of different things in regards to people dealing with bullying and abuse in regards to how society shapes you and how people look at you, shapes you. And then an issue of like sexuality and what the choices are with that. Those things are all happening. Inside of this one piece. And I think it's been embraced. And I think that's a great thing. Certainly you're always gonna find such a manner that people are not gonna wanna deal with. But there are those individuals who are now like pushing them to the floor. And I think it's an interesting time in that way. And has that changed in the last five years in the last 10 years? You've been in Hollywood for a bit of time. Has there been a shift? And when? You're always minding them when they were put out in front of the audience. What's the question? That's changed, I don't know if I could look at a time frame because I think it's still actively changing. But I would say certainly if I were looking at like black cinema and the changes that went along throughout that period. There were periods where it was quiet. It was only one or so actors who were working in the medium at all during sitting 48th time. And then now that changed and people started to see in the 70s the resurgence that was allowing it to, even actually those films, those exploitation films as they call them, were sort of saving the industry during that time. And it kind of quieted that. We had a new grouping of people where it started to be an urbanization of films where different people from different cultures were all coming together. Now that was a new time, you know? And now we're engaging in a time where people are saying, we see the financial viability of these films and of this audience, Latin, black, Asian, however. We see the equation that allows us to want to make these films, those financers more and more right now because they can look at the data and see that these films are being embraced by large audiences or different types of audiences. And so that's making a big change over the last five years or so. And Haifa, you're a woman filmmaker in Saudi Arabia. When did you realize that you could really make a difference in also the types of films that you were making? Well, just to top what the first was saying, just this weekend, we have three big film movies in Hollywood that is live by night by three big bloodbusters. And we have a small film called Head and Figures like K-Men just dominated the weekend. And it's just amazing. It's about women going into science and they are women of color. And people for sure, always like when you go to the Hollywood reporter, they're saying the film is over performing. And it is amazing that those kinds of films are moving forward. And people never understood so the potential of those films because, and now they're, as first was saying, people are seeing the data and seeing new audience and what people want is not very much like what the studios are wanting. But why, Haifa, is there a change in our consciousness? There is a, for sure, there is a push for diversity in Hollywood. And I think people want to see different stories. They don't want to see the same kind of like gangster movies or whatever. They want to see something real. And they want to push forward to the dialogue. I feel like, and there is lots of change. And where I come from in Saudi Arabia, I feel like a lot of the films coming from Saudi Arabia about women, even when you're talking about men filmmakers, they go and talk about women's issues because it is such an amazing place to push the society forward in a safe way. It's not like talking about politics, which is like Saudi Arabia is not even like China, right? It's very conservative when it comes to religion and politics and all that. And there is a really small space for artists to maneuver. So it is like talking about issues that like family values and bringing empowerment to women and trying to ease the way to more diversity within the society has been really effective and making people reflect on their own values and maybe changing the bigger picture. So yeah, that answers your question. Yes, it does. And actually, this is something that we're also exploring right before coming on stage is that the relationship between filmmakers and artists or talk show hosts and politics is actually one that's more important than ever because you can, by drawing a fine line and by being careful, really push the agenda. Well, that's what I've noticed in India as well. I think that many filmmakers are doing just that. They're understating the tonality, the syntax of the film or the TV show, whatever it is. When it's understated and not over expressing itself and yet making a point, it's working tremendously in India. And I see exactly like you were saying, there's a paradigm shift in Indian cinema where the content has completely become more socially relevant and accountable and it's done in an entertaining way and those films have actually worked wonders. This last two years have seen an increase in the kind of content about whether it's, as I said, on diversity in terms of sexuality, women empowerment and those have been the biggest blockbusters of the year and everything that has been frivolous entertainment or just mindless entertainment, which is also something we've strived on, has actually been completely annulled. And so when I hear her I feel like she's my Chinese soulmate because I feel like I do exactly what Simon Cowell does in India. I judge reality shows. I host a talk show. I come from a film background and I'm like, I can't believe there's one of me in the world as somewhere else and I feel so empowered to know that. We're in countries where actually things can be so difficult. Expressing our opinion are sometimes, we are very governed very strongly by strong political forces. Sometimes the politics in our country are so divisive that they don't allow art to flourish in all its glory but that's definitely changing because many people are combating it now. But how do you, you tread, it's a very fine line, right? So making sure that your point is understood without offending anyone. Fortunately, nuance doesn't get noticed by everyone. I agree. And I think the great thing about subtlety is that it's like fine wine. Not everyone knows the difference. So I think when you get really subtle and yet you know you're targeting the audience that's understanding what you're saying, subtlety and nuance are great friends to have in the world of creativity. Do you remember a specific lead character that you thought, this is a great achievement for me and my country? There was, like a film that we produced called Kapoor and Sons, which was a film about a dysfunctional family and secrets that families have that are brushed under the carpet. And the lead protagonist was actually essayed by a Pakistani actor, Kol Fawad Khan. And you find out right at the fag end of the film, at the end of the film, that he is actually a homosexual and he hasn't come out to his family. Now in Indian mainstream cinema, anyone will tell you that was probably one of the most progressive moments that Indian cinema had ever witnessed. And that film was not only a commercially successful film but there was nobody who stoned my office. And I was really happy that there was not, there was no kind of a crowd or procession. No one's told me, no one tried to kill me. No one tried to stop the release of the film. And I felt like that was a giant leap forward. When that character was accepted, that movie did well, it was like it gives you power. It empowers you as a filmmaking production house. As the director of the film, the writer of the film, to create more characters, to create a homosexual character in India, in mainstream Indian cinema is not the norm. It's normally, it's very parallel, it's alternate, films that are what we call festival friendly films. But never in the mainstream. But this is actually a very serious point. This could be perilous if taken the wrong way. And this is probably the biggest difference between Hollywood or the United States is that do you feel like you're at sometimes endangering yourself if you go too far? You always are, you always are. When you make a strong statement, you're always worried. You have to kind of, there's a fine line. Whether it comes to religion, it comes to politics, it comes to sexuality, morality. I mean, we all have opinions. We're all like, I'm left-wing in my approach. I'm liberal in my approach as a filmmaker and as an individual on a humanitarian basis. But not everything I believe and feel is something I can put out there in a forceful manner because there's also ramification that awaits me. It could be legal, it could be political, or it could be violent at times. And sometimes you just always feel restricted. But yet, I think what is happening recently is a form of a revolution. And I think taking a leaf out of the wonderful work that Hollywood does in terms of like, this year I saw, like Forrest spoke about Moonlight, exceptional piece of work where it comes to talking about the male testosterone versus sexuality. And I just think it was a great, any of the films like Hidden Figures that you mentioned against such an empowering story and so forceful. We're tending to tilt towards those two stories ourselves. Like just three weeks ago we had a film release which is considered the biggest blockbuster of Indian cinema. It's a film about two girls who actually are in the sports zone. They are women wrestler stories. How the father, in India it's a very big deal that you need to push your son in the zone of sport. And here it's about a father who pushes his two daughters and they emerge victorious. That film has gone on to do the biggest business ever. Just goes to show that it's the newness, it's the way forward and the progression that is working much more than just the pure entertainment of it. And Jinxin, I'm sure there are films like this in China as well. What does it actually do to society, to see these strong lead characters? Does it change, does it give people hope, does it, do you actually see benefits? Yes, I'm a big movie lover. I love films. I think of movies, whatever in China, whatever in the country, it's a window. People through this window to discover the world. Also people from the window looking at what's happening in the country. But the reason I dare to say that, I think Chinese movies are quite messy now. Because so much money involved. Our movie industry is booming incredibly. All the Hollywood come to China make a big move. But the quality of the film doesn't give some substance to the young people. Only the big market. All the Chinese are on top of the tunnel. When they make big money, what's money for? Let's invest in movies. They don't care. That's a big cast. Lots of money and box office. After box office, they put on the stark. Market looks good. But there's a lot of underneath going on. That's why this big table, big issues in China talking about today, about the film industry. That's why I say one way is booming. One way is very dangerous. How much this movie influenced young people today? Look at the film. We have a beautiful art film. The director did a beautiful story of film. But I have no box office. And all the money is to go for the big, giant investment, joint venture productions, the Hollywood influence, everything. That gives a completely different idea about the movie. What's the movie about? I'm happy. I have a small talk show. But I'm quite happy doing these two years with my talk show, Lunching on the Air. I put the three generation of Chinese. Usually these days, young kids play the game. Young people, office, going through the internet. And senior people sitting home watching TV. Family, three generation doing their own things. But since the talk show, I went and lunching the talk show, the way I'm talking with people and put the three generation together, watching every Wednesday night, say what I'm saying, share the opinions. I can share one story. This is very Chinese dress I wear. In my talk show, I always dress like this. You don't see these Chinese women dressed like this anymore. One day, I was acting in the theater. 100 years old Shanghai lady come to my theater. I said, why you come to see the show? They said, I want to see you in life. Then I asked her, I said, do you understand every Wednesday night what I'm talking about doing my talk show? She said, I don't care. I'm too old for that. But I just want to see your dress and beautiful dress floating around in front of TV. Make me feel good. The life is beautiful. That's great. Then I know I have to keep this dress for my talk show. Even for the ladies. They just look at you every Wednesday night. And my show is launching after 10 o'clock. Actually, for a lot of senior people, quite late. And a lot of senior people over 70 years old, they eat dinner at 6.30, and they go to sleep right away. At 9.30, they wake up watching the talk show and see me dressing Chinese dress, standing there, talk with people. And they give them a hope. They said, life's still beautiful. So that's the message I'm sending. Even some topic is very sensitive. I cannot touch it. But I know I'm communicating with people and slowly guiding people. Balancing was not satisfied with what is happening today in our life. And for film, I'm not too much knowledge about it. But as a film lover, audience, Chinese films, big market, but a little messy. I'm sure some Chinese filmmakers don't like. I make comments. But also, when I talk show, a lot of young people Q&A every week ask me, Madam Jin, did you see this film? What's your comment? My words are very important. If I say this film is rubbish, the box office is going down. Really? Yes. I was really careful with my words. So each film, even some time in rubbish film, I said, I have to look first. Even I look just for five minutes, I cannot stand it. Then I said, even I see. Then I know I have the power to talk. What is the film about rubbish about? Some films are really good. Then I have to look. Some people just give a comment. This word, this mouth, have a certain responsibility. You cannot just say it. And that's why I gave a small guidance for the people. What kind of right film, what kind of art can pulling people from the judgment? And of course, what kind of films do you think people want to see today? Is it films of hope, away from the blockbusters, or is it actually difficult films that help us see the world a little bit differently? I think it's some of everything. I mean, look, cinema is just like a giant metaphor of sitting around a fire. People connecting and following the same story. People wanting to hear different things, different myths that exemplify what they think life is about. I think right now we have a lot of socially conscious films that are coming forward. But at the same time, we also have extremely large, as you say, superhero films that maybe appeal to the archangels or angels of our minds, where we do superhuman things. And so both of those things are working together in some kind of weird way. I think a lot of people would say they're more frustrated that they can't make the smaller films or the films with deeper substance. But I have to say, because I get the opportunity to produce films. My partner, Nene Yang, has produced the last four films for us. And every time they're socially conscious films. With Oscar Grant, we did Fruitvale Station. We did Dope. We did The Film I Was Telling When My Brother Taught Me. And all these films, they found their way. They found their audience, a real audience, a strong audience. So there is room for that. And there is a lot of room happening right now. I'm going to go look at Roxanne Roxanne, which we just did. Which takes place as a female rapper in itself. It's also entertaining. But it has some very social messages in regards to her life and stuff. So those things are all kind of percolating. There's still people that are going to be really frustrated. There are going to be people, culturally, who will say, well, we can make a film up to this range of a budget. Let's say we can make a film up to $8 million and they'll let me do it. If it's up in the 15 area and I go up to 15, then all of a sudden people start to start to question whether or not it's viable enough. From that, they have to jump to these superhuman films, or mystical, mythical films. So for example, Fruitvale, which you mentioned, you were a producer on this film. And it was a film about the Bart Transit police shooting of Oscar Grant. Why do you think it's important to do films like this? In many cases, film is much more powerful than the media. Oh, OK. This film is a true story about Oscar Grant. And I think where the country itself was dealing with issues of profiling and abuse by the police and to the community and stuff. And Ryan Quigley, who's the director, who's a really talented filmmaker. That was his first film. He was able to bring that story out, and humanize a character without trying to make it pure or perfect. For us to watch that story and understand the struggles in it, I've had a company for quite a long time. So I think in the beginning, we did films. They were still socially relevant films. And they all wrote along. We did The Green Dragon, which was a film about Vietnamese refugees, which is called American Guns, was about guns and abuse and stuff in the country. And all those films have found their way as well as dope. I think Ryan's movie, Fruitvale, came about also at a time where the trials were coming forward. And so it guarded even more attention. And I think deep credit to him, he's an extraordinary filmmaker, extraordinary writer. And I was happy that he walked to my office when he was in schools. Haifa, do you remember a lead character that you put on screen, which changed your life and maybe Saudi women's lives a little bit? I don't know what Saudi women's lives are, but certainly my first film, and you were talking about censorship and writing with censorship, I feel it's very empowering to write with censorship. Because every time you want to say something and you can't say it and you say it in a different way, it's kind of victory. And it is really frustrating and hard, but it is kind of like, it is a way to move forward. It is not easy, but it is sweating your way out to write a script, which is really, I feel it sometimes, it's rewarding. Because you could deconstruct something that wasn't able, so rooted and so deep. And as an artist, that is what you strive for. It's to bring that kind of like to go to the deep of the matter and people entertain and people are happy and they embrace you. And that is what you, as an artist, that is what you want to feel like to write a joke and see people laugh at the joke or just, and even if it is like, it means that they have to go home and re-question some of their values. And I just recently finished an English film like about Mary Shelley and I was, that woman is crazy. Like she dominated science fiction when she is like a teenager. She is only 17. And I found a lot of like commonality with that woman who was like, who grew up like in England and I was like, I'm Saudi, what happened? Why they sent me that script? But she grew up in that conservative society. Like it is very women are supposed to dress in a certain way, to act in a certain way. Jane Austen was the biggest writer ever and she was writing social drama and everybody wanted her to write something similar like social criticism about marriage and jealousy. But she totally abandoned that and she wrote something very masculine, questioning God and having like all that kind of philosophy. And for me, like just being part of that character is coming to life. It was amazing. And we had Elle Fanning Tostar, which is a young actress and she had all this young energy to bring into the character was really cool on it. It is, I felt like I was touched by that character as well. And it is in a different way because when there was my creation, it's like from my hometown where she comes from and it's something that I know really totally and I just brought into life. But that person, I went to her life and I felt how can be all similar and how can like especially women and what issues we deal with on a totally different level. Why are there not more women filmmakers across the world? It's amazing to see such a successful filmmaker from Saudi Arabia and yet you go to Hollywood and there are fewer of them or not that many more. Yeah, no, I think the statistics I read about there are less now than 1998. But I think there is a push for women filmmakers and for women's writers. And there is room now with a lot of films making well by women and about women. Like even Star Wars had like Felicity Jones as a lead which she was amazing. It was really empowering to see all it is not only like it's a very male kind of film, right? That is like, but it is we have female leads now that are even coming into the superhero and the mainstream. So I think it is very promising but it's also up to women to break into it because people like they're unconscious about the gender and like there is always like discrimination and people are sexist even if they don't know it. And it is in the subconscious like kind of level and dealing with that and trying to break it. But you should not forget it as a woman. You know that you have to deal with that and you have to move forward. And it is not the way you shouldn't see it as something that is, you should see it as a fact that you need to move over and push it out of your way. It is not something that you have to deal with every day. It is something you need to push to the side so that you're clear, you have a clear path. Does it make you braver? Ah, it makes me a little bit nastier. No, but it is, essentially it's a brave when you go to a set and all of men and like they always like question and they have like, they are together like and you are like the question you're questioning especially in Saudi. Like someone was like a woman like, like I'm the boss and tell them something and it's just like, ah, don't question, just do. So it's hard sometimes, but it is. I think you need to trust people also and people need to see that you are not feeling you want to go against them. You want them to see you as I am invested in your, like if you are a cinematographer, a GP or an art designer, whatever person I relay on your success as much as you relay on my success. And that is very important to understand that trust that I am empowering you. I'm not trying to dominate you because I am a woman and maybe you think I'm weak, I need to come on top of you until you exactly respect me. I need to give you the space to create and the same way I need to give me that space. And I feel that's kind of like, it helped me totally like make friendship and have like, how to deal with men, I guess, be friends. Let's have coffee together. And Karan, we started the conversation with you talking about accountability. Where does that accountability come from? Is it social media and platforms, I don't know whether it's distribution or ARIELs, ARIEL TV or is it actually millennials? Is there a generational gap? Well, definitely I think the millennials are far more progressive in their approach. They're more exposed to I think a new age and a new form of expression. But also I think social media and media in general has made even like the filmmakers more accountable because the media has definitely trained the thought process at least a large section of the media of how a viewer sees a film now. In terms of like, you know, you feel like you're just not out there making whatever you like because you know that there's an entire policing. For heaven's sake, social media is like the most ad hoc policing that exists. I mean, you know, especially back home in India, whether it's Facebook or Twitter, like everyone has an opinion. It's so daunting for a filmmaker. Like in no other industry in the world is their product judged on that release Friday the way we are. It's like, it's crazy. You wake up and I go through bouts of nausea on that Friday morning because you feel like you're on the verge of just going to collapse because everyone's either abusing you, praising you, being like excessively opinionated about what you made. Would you check blogs? I check everything. I'm a complete sucker. Like I check everything. I read blogs, I read reviews, I read opinions. I'm crazy like that. It's like I almost want that kind of criticism to kind of nurture me further. I read everything and I want to tell you like if you are anywhere close to being a cardiac patient or you're on the verge of in any case going through anxiety issues, which I do from time to time, you can have a complete meltdown on that morning because you feel like everyone has such strong opinions on your work. So you can't just think that entertainment is just going to be entertaining and just going to put out something that is just going to be frivolous and fun because there is a tremendous policing and some of us can diss social media. We can say it's a millennial fancy. We can say it's frivolous. We can say it's random. It's full of unhappy, isolated people that are so sad that they put their thoughts out. But they exist. There is so much unhappiness in the world and they have opinions. But by listening to those opinions, do you not fear that you're stifling your creativity? Well, how can you not listen to those opinions because those opinions put bums on seats? So eventually those opinions have good to matter and there are those people who have opinions and are not arriving to the cinema hall or watching your TV in any case. But you have no siphoning process. I have no way of kind of segregating one from the other. All I can do is be a victim of that opinion. And I can react and let me tell you when the praise comes, you feel like it's and sometimes you're a victim of yourself. Sometimes you've created an image for yourself in the world of entertainment. No matter what you do, you will not be liked for what you've done. You will not get your due. Or sometimes you could be a cerebral filmmaker and have a reputation because you carry that demeanor and you'll be loved even if you make a piece of crap. You know, you'll be like, it's also a point of perception. But other than that, there is governance, there is accountability and a large part of that is the force of the media. And you know, we as filmmakers can go hoarse trying to say like critics don't matter, opinions don't matter, but we're living in La La Land. They all matter. They make a big difference. They make a big difference when people go out there and write strong things online on the internet and they have opinions, blogs. People write so much. I sometimes wonder where they have the time. I really feel like I've read people like analyze my work and I haven't bothered to analyze my own work to that extent and I don't think it's worthy of that analysis. And so many of them will write reels and reels and pages online about like a film I've made or an article I've written or a show I've hosted and I'm like, they really have so much to say. Like I would be exhausted of my own opinions after a point because you know, you can't be on an opinion treadmill all your life. Sometimes you just have to kind of just let go but no one knows how to do that anymore I think. That's great insights. Jinxing, you were nodding through a lot of that. Do you look at reviews? Yes, I'm the person, you know, in China. But she's apparently the review. I'm petrified. She's the Oprah Winfrey in China. I wish I had that power as a talk show host to say, I hate that film and it just flops. No, make sure she likes your film. No, in my Chinese Twitter, Chinese, we have a micro blog. I have 11 million followers. I'm the one, usually people think that the big star, big TV host, you must be my Twitter managing my office, my assistant, no. Since 2011, I've launching my, you know, from 1,000 viewers until 11 million now. Everything I respond by myself to my finger. Then every day I'm responding. I swear to God. And even some people really, you know, the true gossip on you, you know, blame on everything. I fed back. I have no history. Some people say, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then I really fed back. Then people shocked. They said, oh, she's really fed back. It's not her assistant. But I gave the word, then suddenly the world getting small. The people will be letting touch you. But the truth is in modern media, they can target you. In the moment, then just, of course, in my audience, 90% of the audience, they give some certain correct opinions. But a lot of people really target things. I don't know how many audiences today sitting here know my background. They have nothing to target my dancing, nothing to target my talk show, and they target my personal life. Because I was the first transgender, you know, from best male then to female then. Then they suddenly target your personal life. Exactly. Then they target your children because I adopted three children. Then they target your children. Very nasty people that behind the screen like this. Then I was talking talk show. I said, if some people can front of me, I'll give you a plot and fight with me, not just behind like this. This is more the media created a lot of nonsense things. But how we briefly dealing with it, this is another attitude. That's why through my talk show, through my soft media, I really stray forward. That's why more and more Chinese young people appreciate it. I really know hate stations. I'm a TV host, but also I'm a regular human being. I have to write. If you threw the bad word to me, I have to protect my kids. It's not just like, okay, no, no, no, no. I'm asleep, right back. That's why this is the character also getting a lot of compliment from young people. Now, that's a modern media. We can challenge it with a double sword. One way to open the world, discover a new world. One way also to the value of morality system is very, you know, changing a lot in China. You are really the champion of the lead character, right? That has also changed the perception in China. Did you always feel that way? No, that's not my intention. That's not my intention. People are thinking you are some Chinese young people said, oh, she's the liberty study of China. I do so many things in my life, always challenging the boundary of society, but nothing for that. I didn't want to put myself in that position. I just want to be myself. Then I said all the personal choices, what I've achieved in a dance, modern dance world, TV shows, everything's, I'm coming with my passion to do it. And people have all kind of opinion I accepted, but not my intention. I want to become public figures or influence other people. I'm not belong to any groups. I just independent, a dancer, actress, and TV host. That's it purely clears that. One last question for us. And then I'm going to take questions from the floor. So prepare yourself and you can just put your hand up and tell us who you are. For us, because Hollywood is so prominent worldwide, do you feel that gives you an extra, I don't know if it's bonus or onus to actually do something life changing? So advance education or push the barriers? I think that that's a responsibility that everyone has to be able to step forward and try to allow our planet to be a better space to live in. I don't, maybe I have a larger platform that could do that, but I think that every individual has in some ways that responsibility to do it. I just have to comment, because I'm totally blown away by the way you deal with your art and stuff too. For me, I don't really read reviews. I mean, I read them sometimes. I'm scared of looking at bad ones. I'm very, you know, hurt me, you know what I mean? I just do my work and try to find the truth and live in that truth and give it out. I'm not saying that there aren't films that I've done that are questionable, you know what I mean? I'm certainly there are, but on a whole, I just try to connect in some way to a sort of, for me, divine type truth in some ways, and hope that the people will receive it. It's like giving a gift, you can't expect somebody to give you one back necessarily, or even really give it, so you give it and then you hope that it's received to kind of, isn't Nikkei what you said? I'm amazed by you, I agree. No, but I'm just talking from my experience. No, but that would be such a wonderful place to reach actually. Sometimes opinions and that sense of validation that sometimes filmmakers like me, at least I seek for it all the time, it can be exhausting. And I think what you're saying is so beautiful because if you really just found that beauty in your art and that truth in your art and believed in it so strongly in yourself, it would be so much more easy for a creative force. But for me, I think that validation matters so much more than it should, and it's a weakness. I don't think it's a strength. I'm not saying I'm secure. As a person, as an artist, I try my best, but I can't say that that's what I'm reaching towards trying to do something. It's more than myself, and when I reach that out and I try to give that out, then I'm hopeful that when the box is open, that there's gonna be some sort of ether that comes out that gives somebody a breath of something that they wanted to see or some experience. You know, and that's all, you know, that's the question. Great, questions from the floor. So if you have, please put your hand up. Great, the gentleman on the third row there, who's the first one to put his hand up. And if you could say who you are and who the question is to, please. Annan Singh, to Forrest first, you're being far too modest. If you look at his body of work, that he's made choices and as a filmmaker, both as a producer and an actor, it's an exceptional body of work. And when you think of the challenges that some of these films had to get made, like The Butler, which nobody wanted to finance and everybody took very little money and ultimately audiences did go to see it and I think it grossed over 200 million dollars at the box office. But my question, Karen, is to you. It's great to see audiences today in India embracing social issues in cinema. Do you think the time is gonna come soon where Indian stories like Slumdog Millionaire or Lion are actually made by Indian filmmakers that they would actually take on the storytelling that lived in India with Satyajit Ray and all of them years back. And now, I think you have that group of talent there and it's just people need to be able to push that envelope. Thanks. Well, Slumdog Millionaire and Lion, both films I've seen, are actually contemporary stories told in contemporary times. And actually, it was when I saw Lion just now, I was fascinated about how as to I put it, how completely Hindi film the film really was and the fact that it wasn't nurtured by someone back home in India was actually very saddening. Had I been given this narrative, I would have been so proud to direct a film with this kind of story. And it's sad on one level that it took Hollywood to make a film that could have been, that was half in Hindi actually. The whole film was like the ethos, the syntax, everything was so traditional. So Slumdog Millionaire of course is a complete, like I would say a Western take on an Indian story. So I'm not talking about Slumdog because everyone who says Slumdog's a Bollywood film, they don't know anything about Bollywood films. Slumdog is not a Bollywood film. It is completely structured, conceptualized for a Western audience. But Lion was not like that. Lion was like a full out cathartic cry. Like I found myself weeping sitting in that cinema hall, just like I would when I watch an Indian language film. And I felt like Lion should be a story that should have been told. It's what we call the quintessential lost and found formula film that used to exist in Hindi cinema in the 70s. And it was exactly that and performed fantastically by the lead artists and very moving narrative. But I don't think Slumdog, I would equate Monsoon Wedding, Slumdog, these are not Bollywood films. They've been made with a totally different audience. But yes, to answer your question about Lion and the storytelling and new filmmakers doing different things, well I hope they're empowered because the audience definitely is. I always feel like in back home in India, the filmmakers are 10 steps behind the audience, which is really sad. And I can take accountability for that. I don't think I'm as progressive as my audience is and I attain to get there. Okay, do we have another question? So the lady on the second row and then the gentleman on the first row. Thank you very much. My name is Launay Rungu. I'm from Kenya in East Africa and have been on stage, acted and actually invested in a production company. My question is to all of you. One, the growth of television and demand. So Netflix, Hulu, Amazon provides people an opportunity to watch movies that would not make it to the theaters in lots of places, whether it's documentary features or very powerful pieces of work. What are you as filmmakers doing to leverage on that, to be able to showcase great stories on that? That's part one. Part two, and he brought it up. Lead or great actors taking up roles in smaller movies so that they're done. So the example of the butler. Do you think we can get more of these stories told if more people are willing to kind of take the pay cut because this matters and put it on a platform that's not as expensive because I in East Africa now have access to films that I would never have seen anywhere else but it's because of the demand. And so where our social media has been key and how people think of movies. How is this new technology going to impact film and are we going to see declining theaters but more on the silver screen? Great. Who wants to take the question about distribution and how we access films? Well, visibly India. I mean, I can speak of Amazon and Netflix and all that is creeping into India right now. But a digitalist like this new big toy that everyone in India thinks they should play with but they have no idea about. It's a growing phenomenon but I know in everywhere else their ground realities and digitalism is a very strong medium. So visibly India is still a growing force. I mean, if you have, there's lots of great content on digital that is actually path breaking in so many ways. Yeah, I think particularly in the state side I think it's beginning in a lot of the world. I mean, it's a medium break. Meaning that we're starting to look at television, cable networks, all these different things as one whole medium where you can move in and out of them and go from one to the other. And as a result, it's giving more opportunities because there's no more platforms that will be able to make the funds that are necessary for artists to be able to work. Like I know there's a number of, a lot of actors or artists I know are like really excited about what's going on in the cable world or in the Netflix world, in Amazon, Hulu, all these different companies that are now feeding product out and people are receiving it as if it's some of the best product. It's some of the writing is considered some of the strongest writing. Some of the shows are, so you're getting artists doing shows that would never do shows before. Under time frames where they don't have to, or maybe before they'd have to give up two years of their life, three years of their life, whatever, now they can say I'm gonna give up four months to do 10 shows as something that will be quality and expert. And then at the same time, I'm gonna do this film and I have an audience already. It's built in on Netflix. It's built in on these different places. They're gonna watch it now and put it out there. And they're gonna come and see it. So it's actually, you know, it's an opening in a way at least, I call it. For me, it's like when they thought there was, first there was like TV and they thought, okay, if you put more channels, it's gonna destroy it. You get cable, that's gonna destroy it. They kept getting afraid. It's like you get a cassette, you know, and you're not gonna have, it had to kill a track. But actually it continued to grow to the marketplace, became so much more now people say that music is free, you know what I mean? You know, I mean, but it's everywhere and accessible and they're finding ways to like monetize it. And film actually has been monetizing itself a little bit of an interesting way. You know, you know how that helps somewhat? Yeah, yeah. One thing, I come from Saudi Arabia where cinema theaters are still not permitted. So it is a great way for younger people to see that, like before even that, people go online to watch films and piracy is huge. But I would say like we want to go to theaters. It's amazing medium. I wish like, it is like it's such a mystical thing to go to a closed room with a group of people and watch a film. And I really hope that doesn't disappear. It is just like, it just has all its paradiso and all those films. And it's just like, it is the legacy that you want as an artist to preserve. And I know in film that the actual film like disappeared and we all film like digitally, like we were it's a heartbreaking moment for everybody. It really was. Yeah. It really was. So like, yeah, so I hope it doesn't disappear but I hope in places like Saudi Arabia or places where people cannot have access to that art, that it will break. And it's just like democracy comes in. It creeps into other places and bring art everywhere. Could I have the question from the gentleman in the front row and then one at the back afterwards, please. Hi, my name is Alem. I'm a global shaper from the Perth Hub in Australia. My question is to Forrest. In the United States, the African-American ticket or the African-American dollar is the most powerful in terms of box office revenue. And I think despite that, there's still very little representation of people of color in mainstream film. And I think even more than that, the level of recognition in terms of awards is still underwhelming. So what will it take for, I guess, studios to increase their diversity and for associations to recognize talent from diverse communities, particularly in the United States where minorities feel at this time less valued and less included? Yeah, I think there's like 13% of the films have minority artists in those positions. There's like 40% of us in the country. It's all about black film. It does have an audience that goes consistently and a certain break point. Fun, actually, I think the studios feel they can make certain amounts of money. And another break point, they feel like they don't. It's disappointing, but I think that the opening of what we're just talking about is equalizing a lot of that, equalizing some of that in a way of the different places and opportunities for being able to tell stories and the opportunity to show films on screen at the same time, maybe simultaneously on the smaller screen or 10 weeks before in the little screen and then go into the big screen. And even that is making money. So there's a time now where the numbers, because part of it was numbers, and part of it was some prejudices behind the people who were making the choices. But there was always this equation. I think that equation is changing. I think people are looking at that data and it is shifting. Not as quickly as we want, not as quickly as I would hope it would do so. And as far as like awards and things of that nature, it's, because it's subjective things, difficult, I think they're reshaping some of the votings, the voters in different of the groups and the academy groups and different ones. They're offering people to be able to join where it was a large club of older filmmakers or artists before. Now new filmmakers or artists are coming to come in of different social and cultural backgrounds and stuff. And that was hopefully start to change that so that things will open up for that awareness to change. So the hour flew by, so we only have time for one last question at the back there. Hi, I'm Meira Nishwari. I'm the Minister of Communications and Culture for the Canadian government. And I would like to ask you questions about the public role in promoting international domestic content. Of course, we have, like many countries, public policies to support the fact of having domestic Canadian content that can be viewed by Canadians. And now, what is your, is there in the context of this great globalization where people have access to global content, is there a role for governments to support domestic content internationally? I would say I wasn't able to make Wajda, which is my first film in Saudi Arabia and shot entirely Saudi Arabia. I wrote it in all cast Saudi. The majority of the money came from Germany. I went to, and Saudi Arabia is a rich country and TV is huge. I knocked on every door to support the film and there was no answer because cinema is not allowed and it's about a young girl. It's about a woman empowerment. It is a totally different story. And because of public funds in France and in Germany and other places where producers are making films in different other places, well, I had to have German crew, like a lot of, like, my crew were Germans. They came to Riyadh and it's a different story. But I wasn't able to make the film without that help. And I think public funds are very important in preserving that kind of artistic and scary kind of, like, risk taking. It gives a platform for artists like me if you want to make films. And the film is German as well as Saudi, which is really, I'm really proud of that. Well, India's never really had a problem raising money for their domestic market because cinema is such a large, like, part of our existence. In fact, when the Hollywood Studios came in, some of them had to even adapt to the Indian way because they weren't used to the way we function, which can be ad hoc at times. And I don't think we have a sense of, like, doing things the way probably they were used to. So I remember they had to struggle with, like, you know, the film producers in India had to adapt. So raising that kind of money to make domestic Indian content has never been an issue because it's always been the mainstay entertainment of our country. And it's always, it's grown from first to first. So yeah, so that hasn't been an issue. Having said that, there are so many subsidies, actually, that happened between India and Canada, India and Great Britain, India in parts of North America, where you get, like, 30% and 40% subsidies when you shoot and film in those areas, which is more tourism-related. And God knows that if you give us things that are free, we run there, so it's great. Every run. For China, in our government, we constantly have public firms always supporting art and education. And these days of talking about the world economic forum, China dealing with so many international stage in the economy, but we discovered that after business deal, what's the most influential is the cultural and soft power. That's why our government put a lot of public fund to supporting art and creative. But the commercial money, not in China, the big money involved is the TV business. Quick, fast, and everybody, all the major stars, they want to join the TV, do the reality show, because time shop. And second big money is loading too, because of Hollywood influence, filmmaking. That's a lot of big commercial films. But the art, for the art foundation, supporting, government constantly supporting it, because you need that in China, so big, and the government puts this money really exclusively for the art education. We put, I think, maybe 70% on the education, art education, that really young artists have the opportunity to write. But that's the, I think, constant, that's our Chinese government doing quite a good job and a lot of money into it, yeah. We're running out of time, so I'm going to ask you one question in 10 seconds. For us, what is your biggest hope for storytelling? So why? Storytelling in 2017. That it's inclusive, that it pushes the envelope of our understanding of each other, and that it links us more clearly by the themes that it makes. Haifa? Certainly I want to see more female filmmakers, cinematographers, and script writers below the lines. We love female stars, and they are amazing, but we want women behind the camera, yeah. Karan? I just hope stories are more personal, because eventually we are all a prototype. There are always, there are a million of us in the world. Jingjing? No, I think according to China, Chinese in society, women now, is very highly evaluated. That's also in good way to society changing, but also another way to the very talented woman cannot find a husband, because they are over-educated. That's another issue. That's why I'm producing my show, Chinese Matchmaking Show. But I think 2017 for us is that we have the open dialogue. And today, for Chinese people, never pay attention to American election in history, but don't become a Chinese topic, talk about American election. That's why I think now the stage is to open up to everybody to talk about openly, and no hesitation, and bring the best opinion and the suggestion to the planet, to the world. I think 2017, we have a lot of uncertainty, but I think hope is still there. Chinese always think hope is still always there. I do hope I do hope that all minority voices, new voices, are able to come out and speak and show the full tapestry of our lives. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for a great, great panel, thank you.