 Welw, gweithio. Rhaid i chi, unig. Gweithio yn gweithio ar y greadffordd hwnnw oain y mae'r archfagoriaeth y Deyrnas Gŵr, ac mae'n cael ei hunain o fynd i ei bach. Mae'ch hynny'n yn cyfroedd Castell Stephen Drew a hynny'n cymryd y cymryd. Mae'r cyffredin ar hynny'n cael ei sgwbau'r rhaglu gyda'r gweithlaeth sy'n dechrau fddai'r cyflwytoedd, a chael hynny'n gweithio'r cyfrian dda'r cyflwytoedd. o'r rhaid i fyfnwysg yng ngyfnodd yn ydyn ni i ddiweddoli, ac sy'n meddwl gwasanaethol jyrnau, gyda'n gwirio i'w cilio'n llwyddodd yn llamp, ac ymdweud o yr hynoddau a gaeliadau i'w cyfrofiad ar y webcast. Felly mae'n hynodd, rydyn ni'n meddwl hynny, yn ddullewch chi'n mightgrif yn femyn na sy'n gweithio atrwyntol, oherwydd mae'n dda i'r gwirio y bwysig ymdylch i ddod a'u gweithio'n gofynodd yn hal mawr. Fe os ydych chi'n bwysig y maen nhw'n gafodd yn cyf陳io'r cyffiliadu sy'n gyfanaeth. Felly mae'n gweithio i gympas yn bwysig dros, y mae mae'n gweithio i gref y ffuglion, byddwch ddim yn bwysig'r cefaint yn tynnu cwrs, i wneud hynny o beth sy'n iddynt y ffuglion. Mae hynny'n gallu'r maen nhw i gael ffuglion i'r wgweithio. Mae gweithio i gael arno'r ystod yn bwysig ar y Rheu i'w ffugliad ddim yn cyfans a'r mydd ymgymru. yn y ddweud i osb Gwyl Mwyl Dunedig, mae'n dwi'n gweithio i ddweud i gyrddwys i gweithio. Maen nhw'n cyfleoedd y Tree, ac yn rhywm. Mae'r ddweud i'n gweithio i'r ddweud, mae'n gweithio i'n gweithio i'r ddweud i gwybod beth, cyfleoedd, fel rhaid i'n gweithio i gael yne, byddech chi ddweud i'r ddweud i'n gweithio i'r ddweud i'n gweithio i'r ddweud. As I said earlier my name is councillor Stephen Drew and I am one of the members for Canbourne. My vice-chair is councillor Graham Cone. Thank you chair and I'm one of the members for the Fendit in a full board ward and a brand name is not with us as yet, councillor Libby Earl. Thank you. councillor Sue Ellington. Hello I'm Sue Ellington and I'm councillor for Swedsy. councillor Peter Fane. Good evening Peter Fane, councillor for Shelford Ward. councillor, as well as she's not here at the moment, councillor Sally Ann Hart. Good afternoon I'm councillor Sally Ann Hart and I'm one of the members for the Melbourne Ward. Thank you councillor James Hobrow. Hello I'm James Hobrow I'm the councillor for Foxton Ward. Thank you and councillor Helen Leaming. Hello I'm Helen Leaming I'm one of the members for Canbourne Ward. And councillor John Lovelluck. Good afternoon John Lovelluck I'm one of the councillors for Cottenham Andrew Rumpton. And councillor Richard Stobart. Good afternoon chair and good afternoon everybody. I'm councillor Richard Stobart and I'm one of the members for Gertin Ward. And councillor Dr Aidan Van Dervire. I'm Aidan Van Dervire I'm the representative people of Barrington Ward. Thank you very much. Are there any other members present either in the chamber online? I do not believe so. No. We also have with us several officers. Liz Watts would you introduce yourselves please. Good evening members my name is Liz Watts I'm the chief executive. And Ian Senior. That's me Ian Senior scrutiny and advice. Governance. Thank you and Aaron Clark. Thank you chair. Democrat services technical officer here to make sure the stream of the meeting goes well. And any officers present online if you could introduce yourself please. I suppose I'll have to give you an order that would be more sensible wouldn't it. Rory you can introduce yourself first please. Thank you chair Rory McKenna, monitor officer for the council. Thanks. Thank you and Anne Ainsworth. Thank you chair Anne Ainsworth, chief operating officer for the council. Burke. Cymalic. Head of finance. Thank you and Jeff memory. Jeff memory head of HR transformation and corporate services. Thank you. I can confirm that the meeting is quite stepping at least four committee members here in the chamber. If at any time a member leaves the meeting would they please make that fact known to me so that they can be recorded in the minutes for apologies. Are there any apologies for absence? Just one from councillor. Thank you very much. And councillor Anna Bradlam has contacted me to say that she is running slightly late due to traffic that will be joining us as soon as possible. And declarations of interest. Do any members have interest to declare in relation to any item of business on this agenda? No. Thank you very much. If an interest subsequently becomes apparent later in the meeting please raise it at that point. And then that brings us to the next item is minutes of last meeting. The minutes of last meeting have been published and have been seen by members. Is there anything within the minutes that any member of the committee would like to comment upon, suggest needs of change or challenge in any way? I shall take the thundering silence as a complete acceptance of the minutes. Well done again Ian for an excellent set of minutes. Thank you very much. So therefore as Mr Hathaway and I will sign the minutes and we will accept those as a true record of the meeting. Thank you very much. Which brings us to item number five, public questions. Daniel Fulton of the Fus lane consortium is here to make a statement. Mr Fulton please make your statement now. Yes thank you chair. Parliament has enacted a number of laws requiring that local authorities publish their accounts on an annual basis and that documents relating to those accounts including public procurement contracts are made available for public inspection in accordance with the time frames established by the secretary of state. For the last two financial years this council has failed to meet those deadlines and has in fact failed to publish any accounts at all. Residents of multiple villages in South Cambridgeshire have requested access to the contract documents relating to one item of expenditure from the council's 2020-2021 accounts. This was a limited and focused request that could have been easily fulfilled by the council. Instead the council refused the request. This refusal to allow public access to public information is part of a disturbing trend at this council that has become increasingly pervasive over the past four years. When potential wrongdoing becomes apparent this council's response all too often is to hide the evidence at all costs and despite any legal obligations the council may be under to make the information available to councillors and members of the public. The local members for Longstanton have declined to respond to residents requests to view the contract documents and questions. Members of the opposition political group have remained silent as well. What could reason could this council's chief executive monitoring officer section 151 officer possibly have for keeping details of a public procurement contract secret after the contract has been fulfilled and why won't a single member of this council support the documents being available for public inspection as is required by law. Do you all honestly believe that this council should not be accountable to the public directly for how it spends public funds? I would like to ask each member of this committee to please contact the leader of the council and ask her why she won't support transparency and openness in regards to public spending by this council. I will end on a positive note and this is something I'm extremely happy about. Change at this council is possible. Look at what you've done to this committee in the past four months since the election. You have completely rejuvenated it and returned it to its original purpose under the legislation. That is a remarkable accomplishment. Previously I would never have been able to be permitted to make these remarks today. I'm glad those days are over. Democracy cannot operate without freedom of political expression. The majority group at this council has shown that it is capable of renewal and self-improvement and I would like to thank the chair and each and every member of this committee for having the opportunity to raise these issues today. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Fulton. I am going to read my answer to this question that I have prepared in advance. Thank you for your statement, Mr Fulton. Likeable residents of South Campershire, your participation in meetings of the council is welcome in supporting us to fulfil our responsibilities as councillors. I have allowed your statement using the discretion given to me as chair of the committee under the public speaking scheme even though you did not follow the correct procedure in submitting the statement in time. As you are no doubt fully aware, the rules of the council are in place in order to ensure the most effective and efficient management of our work. Statements and questions are required to be submitted three working days in advance of the meeting taking place so that full and clear answers can be prepared to any pert and points of questions that are raised. By not following procedures that are in place, you've made it more difficult for me as chair to fulfil what I am fully aware of my duties in this role. Therefore, whilst it would have been good to be able to provide a full response to the point that you have raised, that is not possible on this occasion. This is disappointing for me as chair as I wish to be fastidious in my delivery of my role as chair of the Security and Overview Committee on behalf of all stakeholders in our district and beyond. Your question arrived yesterday, Monday the 5th of September, just after midday. I was first able to talk to Democratic Services about it around 4pm when I'd finished my working day in order to be fair and maximise my capacity to respond. I spent time last night and today talking to colleagues and officers so as to ascertain where information I provide you with in response, I apologise for my answer, is necessarily limited due to the very short period of time you gave me to do this. However, I will do my best in the circumstances and ask you to remember the short window of time I have had to do this. In relation to the delivery of the audits of 2019-2020 and 2020-2021, as well as the specific request of you parts of the contract documents to which you refer, I'm informed by the monitoring officer that you and he exchanged emails about this in August and that an explanation was provided to you on the 23rd of August in relation to your specific questions that you have raised again in your statement today. I don't have anything additional to add to the response that you've been given by the monitoring officer which in my view responds clearly and in full to your questions. I thank you for your kind words at the end of your statement and look forward to continuing to work constructively with you and all residents in South Cambridge are in my role as chair of this committee. I would like to remind you that in January 2022, the previous chair of this committee specifically reminded you via email of the requirement to submit statements or questions three clear working days ahead of the meeting as per the council's public speaking scheme. Whilst I've used my discretion to allow your statement in order to be as open and transparent as possible, I'd like to remind you once again that the rules are in place to help you as well as the council's members and officers to be best able to discharge their duties. Right, that is the only public question or statement that we have. So therefore we move on to item six which relates to our future work plan. Now normally at this point obviously we would be going through items of information and scrutiny and overview related to things that we're going to cabinet and other challenges, apologies that's not the right word and other activities that were taking place. As members are aware clearly the agenda for today is a different one in that regard because there are no items and reports related to things that are going to cabinet to be reviewed and have questions about. Therefore the meeting is likely to necessarily be shorter. However I'm sure that we will spend sufficient time going through the things that we have. So the first thing that we are going to go through relates to the agreement we made at the last meeting that we would introduce a plan for members to be able to submit topics for the scrutiny and overview committee to work through and that following discussion with officers and council leadership that we have been in place an idea that we will do that and there have been four topics at this point which have been submitted in advance of the agenda for us to review and what I intend for us to do is to go through each of these ones and just to have a relatively sort of short conversation in relation to how we might do each of these and what we would hope to get out of it as members of the committee and how we would then proceed once it has done. So the first one which is on our lift relates to relationships between the planning service and parish and town councils. I should point out that all four of these were submitted by me so therefore I'm not going to then say could somebody else please explain what it is I'm going to transfer from the chair talking about it to me talking about it because all four were submitted by me. So the first one submitted by councillor Drew was relationship between planning service and parish and town councils and my thinking behind that is that many members and many parish councils talk about the fact that they at times feel that their working relationship with the planning service is not as positive as they would like it to be but we are also aware of the fact that our planning service works incredibly hard and does a huge amount of organisation and communication with our parish and town councils regarding how they are doing their activities. So therefore we have what might be referred to as something of a either a misunderstanding something of a lack of connection in this and it's my view that has squid in the overview committee this is something that's entirely appropriate for us to look into on behalf of our residents our town and parish councils and in a sense on behalf of our planning service in what way we by scrutinising it can hope to improve that. I would also hope that we would find out about the good things that are happening and be able to identify examples where there are parish councils who have a much more positive view of their working relationship with the planning service and also consider how the planning service views it. So my hope is that this would lead to us being able to assist both our officers and our parish town councils and residents to feel I'm a positive working relationship which can only be beneficial for what happens. So that is my thinking behind it so what I'd like to do for each of these things is invite members of the committee to perhaps suggest ways in which they think we can pursue this item what ways in which we think we could do this if we are to agree that this is something that's a squid in the overview committee we may well look into and you're writing down names already. So my first one is Councillor Bradman and then I see Councillor Stobart hand up so Councillor Bradman. Thank you chair. I suppose I'm wanting to inform our consideration with the work that was done previously by the planning service review because we had a very thorough look at our planning service and I'm sure the relationship with planning with parish and town councils was considered as part of that review so I think it'd be very helpful if we looked into what the outcomes and the discoveries and the findings of that review were as to inform us as we go forward and thinking about how we might wish to proceed. Thank you and Councillor Stobart. Thank you chair. So in my limited time as councillor I've seen the workings of a number of parish councils and they are all radically different and some seem to be on top of things others quite stretched and so their view of the planning service is a bit dependent upon their own experience, their own competence and so just to give you one example without naming names, a great enthusiasm to engage but a lot of questions as to how to engage and how to set criteria for their own circumstances and what they want to achieve you know some have looked at for example a neighbourhood plan and just bork at the whole notion of putting together a neighbourhood plan they say we're like four people look at us they say we're like four people how can we take on something like that and so in my discussions with colleagues in planning they've made some very sensible suggestions as to how we can be flexible and I think it's defining some of those notions of flexibility that we might make some success so I would have thought a series of case studies dotted around the parish councils to identify things that are going right things that aren't going so well what's good practice maybe even reach outside of South Cams to other district councils to find out you know what's going well perhaps the local government association has some case studies that we can we can consider thank you very much council heart thank you chair I it's one thing that I'm also a member of a parish council and we'd just like to feedback that we have a very positive relationship with the planning service I'm just thinking in terms of getting the information and aware that our clerk seems to get very good responses when asked questions so I'm wondering if we can how we do involve as as councillor Stowe I said how do we liaise with parish councils I'm also with that we had some feedback that only 19 parish councils responded to the parish survey that the planning team carried out a few months ago and I'm just wondering if that could be repeated about certainly feel that we need to get as you say some case studies to so we can see where things are going well and then where we can sort of feel some of the gaps thank you and councillor Ellington thank you I think some of the issues are around getting clear feedback as to why the objection or concerns or words that the parish councillors spent hours pouring over are not taken into account when the planning decision is made and I think one of the big concerns within my parish is that although planning consent is given even though things that the parish council has objected in one way or another that no enforcement is taken or very little enforcement is taken for those who do not comply with the planning and then the parish council certainly mine at times has said why do we bother you know and and I think there is a an element of lack of communication as to why enforcement wasn't taken and how that might be resolved great thank you very much councillor Ellington councillor Fane and then councillor Obreth thank you chair one of the areas of concern to parishes often relates to decisions as to whether individual applications are referred to committee or delegated to officers and of course we have a new scheme on that um my experiences that in practice the fact that it is the director of planning or his delegate who's taking the decision rather than the chair of planning committee makes very little difference there is invariably consensus on it however there are a number of cases where parishes often supported by members of of the council have asked for matters to be taken to committee which do not meet the criteria and I think we need to take a look at the the conflict that sometimes comes between members and parishes feeling very strongly that a matter should be taken to committee and the criteria for determining whether it is which may dictate that that is more appropriately dealt with by officers I don't suggest a solution just an aspect I think we need to consider great thank you very much councillor Obreth thank you chair so just a couple of comments really first first of all I mean I'm a ward member for a ward that has four different parishes so I've seen uh some uh in a relatively short period of time uh some different views on this um I would say that a couple of the parishes are very confident in understanding the system and how to respond to it um but a couple have previously found that they had a very good personal relationship with officers who've moved on and they're feeling a little at sea and my feeling is that occasional contact with the parishes from somebody knowledgeable either an officer or a cabinet member um to help to rebuild those relationships and rebuild the confidence would be the key to solving some of those problems so so I think I second what councillor Obreth said that it's all about communication and about the parishes feeling comfortable an understanding system as it is today not as perhaps it was when they they last really understood it thank you great thank you and councillor van der Weer yeah I'm just coming out of this discussion it's very clear that there's a large diversity in um ways of approaches from parishes and experiences uh and so when if we're doing some Swedish news doing some work on this then we need to find somewhere capturing that um um uh it was he said that um I think um councillor Brandon said that um there was a survey done with not many responses so possibly one of the things we could do maybe parishes would respond better to the survey coming from ours as members rather than a sort of official survey so um a way of approaching it might be to have a task force group that um set up a survey of parishes and uh and came back with a um a summary but also as a representation of the diversity of of those views so we have a bit more of a through evidence based on the multiplicity of anecdotes that for the moment thank you and councillor Cohn yeah I'd agree with that a survey that sort of people feel they want to engage in essentially because I did as the last one not having a high participation really and the only other thing I was going to say is I think people find the sort of structures and the teams sometimes a little bit hard to follow especially with um staff changes sometimes and so I think it's sort of uh maybe having a point of contact to each um parish council that may be a a chairman of that parish council it may be a clerk of that parish council but um making sure that those changes um are sort of communicated regularly so that they're always up to date on the point of contact thank you very much and councillor love luck hello um I am in the I think interesting position of having gone from being a parish council that would be a district councillor so I find myself suddenly seeing things very differently and in particular since I've become a district councillor I've established a very good communication links directly with the planning officers which I never had before and that means I understand where they're coming from they're very responsive to my requests for information uh normally phoned me back by house and two and I can only be very impressed for that will to communicate so I went to the parish clerk to ask what's your view of planning departments of course she has the same one I had before which is that they're very so to respond that they don't know who's enrolled anymore because of the retention issues which we are focusing on by the means and it's such an important issue because change of officers change of structures or at least change of roles change of individuals make it very hard for the parish to actually know who they should be talking to at a general level rather than on specifics and just one point about that delegation versus non delegation and again this is just a point from the parish recently we wanted something to go to delegation to committee but it was decided by officers and the problem we had was that the argument for why it was done by delegation was very complex really go stick probably very correct but very untransparent to the other end so all they see is no your neighborhood plan doesn't say what you thought he said you can't limit that so I think there are I'm just saying I think there are communication issues and I think we can improve them very much over what they are at the moment enforcement is called another issue other people have commented on that as well I won't say any more it is just a difficult issue but any other councillors who wish to make any comment in relation to that some councillor hearts thank you chair yeah I'm just just came to my now I mean I'm I'm feeling enthusiastic about the idea we're talking about compliance moving forward and it's interesting to see how those discussions work out one of the things that as I said just came to my was unmindful that sometimes our planning committee will see that perhaps the parish has supported an application and then it's perhaps rejected and then vice versa so I'm wondering if there might be some analysis of those type of things we could look at so we can actually get some idea of how big is this problem in terms of there being a lack of perhaps agreement and perhaps greater understanding and I did have a situation the other day where I was looking at the the planning portal and trying to work my way through a planning application and I've already fed back to the planning department that say some of the language there it's just far too difficult to understand and so if we're trying to empower individuals to do a household application how perhaps we can look at that and make it more easier to understand and to navigate your way through this perhaps those levels of frustration don't build up so I think there's a lot of stuff we could do here thank you um thank you I'd like to pause for a second because we've actually had one councillor and two officers join us in the meeting so therefore you know I seem to be sensible to ask them to introduce themselves yes excellent councillor Bradnan which is like now that you've joined us just like to introduce yourself hello I'm councillor Anna Bradnan I'm one of the three members for Milton and Walter Beach thank you very much and officers we have Bodie Aesan who's joined us good in everybody my name is Bodie Aesan I'm the head of our climate environment at the Shedway service thank you and Peter Campbell and hello I'm Peter Campbell head of housing thank you very much all three of you um okay so I think that's all councillors we should speak I'm going to at the end of each one just turn to you Liz if there is anything that you want to add to the discussion any thoughts and perspective I'm also quite happy to turn to the six officers who are there as well if there's anything they wish to add before we move on to the next one but I will come to you first thank you councillor Drew um and Stephen Kelly's on hold at the moment whilst he certainly would be here and I'd be turning straight to him as it's his service um I think we'd welcome the squidgeny uh as councillor um Bradnan mentioned we did similar sort of squidgeny it's probably a couple of years ago now um and I think it would be great to kind of go back to you know what we learned from that uh maybe take forward some of the ideas around you know how do we get more responses from the surveys I think the idea about members helping us with that would be brilliant because you know you're kind of much closer to those to those communities and parishes case studies again I think you know if we had some case studies I think that would be great so broadly speaking very supportive we just obviously need to plan it into our own work programme as well as yours right thank you and um do any of the officers who are attending the meeting online have anything they would like to add to that point I will take that as a a chorus of five shaking heads on our big screens in the hall oh Councillor Stobart and Councillor Bradlam's hands are up so we'll do the two of you and then I'm going to move us on Councillor Stobart I think you were first or at least I saw you first by a short head um thank you um so we did implicitly talk about the role of members in in relation to liaison with parish councils but I wonder if we could be more explicit in raising that as a question you know how can we help how can we facilitate how can we correct uh misconceptions and so on so it'd be nice to think we we had a role that could be developed um so I just wanted to add that to the kind of list of tasks thank you and Councillor Bradlam thank you um I just wanted to point out two different things one which follows on from what Councillor Stobart said is some of us are in my case a member of the parish council as well as in my case not only their district council but their county councillor now with that comes um both some constraints but also some benefits and you can I'm sure appreciate that they vary according to which parish council you're attending I am attending should I say and so um what I think we need what would be good if we could and gender is is the trust between the members of the parish council um to to um understand that we're there to help and of course you'll appreciate like I try to do that whenever I'm attending a parish council and to help them understand where they've perhaps gone off on a a bit of a misunderstanding route you know is to try and um help to explain where where it might you know the clarity of the situation so that's one thing that we can do that as when we're just attending but the trouble is that when we're attending as just a district councillor or as in my case as a county councillor as well um we only have one slot to speak to the parish council and that is as their district councillor so we need to fit that into our district council reports in order to be able to speak to it so some parish councils are more willing to listen outside the forum of their report but for example if you were sitting in a parish council and they were talking about planning you wouldn't and they might be objecting to why this application was not taken to committee um you as a parish you as a district councillor can't speak on that because that's not when you're entitled to speak as a district councillor so it's quite a delicate art in that so you might have to fit it into your district councillor slot um the second thing is that um in the past we've had some very useful training sessions for parish councils um at which just this kind of case study is put out as a a working example for a group of parish councils to work through together and they learn the um and some of them are very experienced some of them are very knowledgeable um but some of those people who might might be new to planning can learn about the way in which their um contributions to the planning process can be most productive um and those those exercises are really useful so but I appreciate they're heavy on staff time and at the moment I know where staff time is is not what we have an awful lot of so I'm just wondering if whether the district councillors could help in that regard you know in um you know interpreting real examples of planning applications on behalf of the planning staff if they're too busy to do it themselves great thank you very much so thank you everyone for that um whilst it's not something necessary in this question for folks or whatever else what I do intend to do at the end of each one is just kind of check that we have a general sense of assent that everyone is happy that we pursue this as potential nights and based on the conversation we've had so what obviously would then happen is that Graham and I within in the first instance would come up with exactly route to do this we would then work with Liz and any other officers as has been referred to about how we do this and then bring it back to committee and actually show how we're going to work through so in the first instance I just want to share that everyone is happy that the relationship between the planning service and parish and town councils is a topic of that we will put onto our work program for security and overview I have everyone's assent thank you very much okay so the second one refers to the plans for the efficient use of the space available at south cambridge a district council hall up to 2026 and I was minded in relation to this because obviously we know that a a good program of works and investment on the quality of the facilities in the hall has been undergone for a period of time to ensure that as a public space for youth by councils and officers and by the public that this is the best possible facility we have we also know that there has been both the impact of the covid pandemic and then the long-term changes that we know that that is going to engender in the use of the hall and we know that one of the things that has been talked about and has been presented to council and others is the way in which there is the plan for a greater increase in the use of the spaces here at south cambridge hall for maybe business use or private use or public use or whichever terms that we use and I just think that considering that this obviously represents the main space that the district council has and obviously there is investment involved in doing that that it is something that we should be checking with officers that the use of the space in the hall is maximised and is being as effective as possible and I would see this as a much smaller topic clearly than the relationship between parish councils and the planning service I'm I don't this isn't one where we're going off to a range of parish councils and having case studies and training whatever it's more of a kind of asking for reports and investigation of information and I just think is important for us in terms of maximising the efficient use of the resources that we have and something again that we potentially can be very proud of as a council that we are using our spaces in the most effective way possible so I just opened that one up for any comments at this stage and Councillor Ellingson's hand has gone up and obviously Councillor Cymru will keep his eyes peeled for more Councillor Ellingson sorry and I think the two elements that immediately come to mind one is security but the second is probably more close to my heart and that is that there is such an opportunity to use that space in a way in which we can promote the work of the council and promote and make the council much more central to the community of South Cairns. It seems to me that there are a number of charities not that I'm thinking we're going to give them the space free but we do work with a large number of charities the CAB Care Network one or two come to mind immediately there are also people like the police and and some subsections of of their work there are all sorts of people who are involved in the community who at the moment perhaps see us as a separate identity somewhere that they might have to get some regulation or legal relationship with but it is such an opportunity for us to be for people to see what we do but also for for people to be engaged in what we do and and I I have no particular idea in my head but it just seems such an opportunity we shouldn't miss it. Thank you Councillor Ellingson, Councillor Cohn. Yeah so the questions that I would like to get from the report around this was kind of who we've maybe already approached, who have we got anyone currently renting space off us what is our capacity in terms of sort of you know office space, how many people can we have in the building safely and so forth because I think if we start to draw that out of the report that comes forward then we can look at organisations like Sue as alluded to that actually not only in terms of just gaining money into the council but also organisations that might be a benefit to having the building. Great, thank you. Councillor Fane's hand has just gone up. Thank you, I know officers will be well aware that Cambridge City Council is going through a similar review and I'm sure we could learn something from each other. I think in relation to the very important points that council Ellington made it may be that some people from parts of South Cambridge district are more likely to want to access Cambridge City, the Guild Hall, than here it might be the other around or I can't see that but in any case I think it would be well worth not quite combining forces on it although we do that fair amount but at least exchanging ideas about it. Is there any other councillor who wish to make any comment on this? Councillor Leaming and then councillor Stobart. Hi there, I was just thinking perhaps we need to start from a very concrete position of what space is free at the moment and is this settled at the moment because we've reached this point through a change of circumstances and a change of working patterns and I'm not completely sure whether things are fluid or stable now and I would like to have some clarity that we're starting from the stable position and we know what is free. Thank you, councillor Stobart, I did see your hand didn't I? Yes, it's a councillor Stobart. Yeah, thank you, chef. So I was just going to reflect, maybe reinforce some of the points made earlier that office space is invaluable to start up, we would think of incubators but incubators is perhaps more for companies that are supported by venture capital and you know are rich and thrusting but there are social businesses and there are maybe certified B enterprises that are just getting off the ground for which some of the office accommodation here could be particularly valuable. Now there's another dimension I was thinking about which was the, this is going to be a very energy efficient building isn't it when the new building services are delivered and that might be a big advantage compared with some of the more conventionally heated buildings in the vicinity and so perhaps members for Cambor you might have a view on you know are there businesses out there looking for start-up premises, you might have a better picture and are there many individuals in that category of where we want to run a social business, we want to run a certified B business and it's difficult to find a spot you know to get to get started up. Very much, we have nobody else on the list councillor wise at the moment for that. Okay so I will turn to Liz if there's anything you wish to say in relation to this item. I thank you chair and thank you members, funnily enough I had a meeting about this at one o'clock today so actually if I may hand on to Jeff memory who leads this area you could maybe update you on where we are and then how you'd like to take things forward. Thank you Jeff. Thank you chair, yes actually it's a very opportun time for you to be discussing this. It's actually quite gratifying to hear that the sort of themes that we as officers have been thinking about are exactly the themes that this committee has been reflecting in this meeting. It's exactly the case that things have changed an awful lot since we last had a space survey done. It was only two years ago, it was the beginning of 2020 which turned out to be just exactly the wrong time to have a space survey done because things have changed quite dramatically since. So we've been going through the process of identifying exactly the sort of things that you've been talking about. What do we expect the demands to be from officers and members going forward into the future? What does that mean for the amount of office space that we're going to need to take up and the type of office space that we provide and then what opportunities does that give us in terms of having some space available for charities or start-up businesses who would be looking for somewhere to be able to come occasionally at relatively low cost and what does that give us in terms of space that we've got available to rent out particularly as you've highlighted in light of the fact that we've got a lot of advantages to this building now in terms of the green agenda and going forward the potential costs which will have been mitigating in terms of heating, lighting etc. So in a few weeks time we'd be in a very strong position to bring some proposals to you to review and I think that would be an exciting way to spend some of the committee's time. I certainly look forward to coming and talking to you about it because it is as you might say this is one of our prime assets and how we're going to use this going forward is a really important part of our planning for the future. It is that we're clear on kind of what we think should happen and then Geoff has kind of outlined where it is on that. So this one being because it is a smaller thing in terms of its work my general kind of pose on this is exactly there as Geoff said that a when I say a report I mean more of a sort of just statement of information I don't mean a great big long report you know great appendices and whatever almost kind of a thing of outlining this is what we're doing this is kind of where we are these are the plans that we have and then that we would talk about that in the meeting as Geoff has talked about there and then we would come back to it at some point maybe in 12 months time and we would then review the progress that has been made and what has been done and I think this is kind of a fairly simple one for us in terms of organising from there I was about so we have lost our visiting colleagues but they have come back this is excellent okay so um and I'm just going to go through again although I'm without making an assumption I ask if all members are content for us to pursue plans for the efficient use of the space available in South Cambridge the district council all up to 2026 as an item for scrutiny and overview consideration thank you very much everyone um the third one on my list is actually about young people in South Cambridge here but I come to that last on the grounds that it ties in with the motion that went to full council and the idea of a task and finish group that we are then going to set up so the last one that I put was engagement of the council with stakeholders across the district and my thoughts in relation to this tie in with some of the things actually that have been mentioned so I think of council Wellington's points about um the way in which you know there are different various charities that potentially may want to be engaged with the council in some ways and the way in which people view the council and the bit we talked about earlier in terms of the planning service and the way in which different stakeholders in terms of people who have planning issues or people who are working with the planning service and parish councils but for me the stakeholder groups are then a much wider thing I think one of the things that as a council we should constantly be doing is considering the extent to which we are engaging with the full range of people who are residents within our district and coming back to the point that was made earlier about the relatively small engagement with the planning service survey that was done with parish councils for instance and I know that we often talk about as we did with different quarters data getting more and more people to be involved but I was also struck by some a conversation as a obviously town councillor for Camborn so the largest sentiment in the district it can seem quite easy at times for our town council to engage with the district council on the grounds that there are 19 of them we were very lucky to even have a contested election with our gigantic ballot paper which I know Liz and officers had a great bit of democratic entertainment producing and counting but actually is a very large parish town council it doesn't mean it's perfect but it's kind of clear for that however there are plenty for instance of extremely small villages within our district who are not even large enough to have a parish council so they will have a parish meeting where is a once a year or such like and I'm sure that there are members sat here who represent villages such as that and I think it would be very interesting for us to consider how do those villages feel about their engagement with district council as a whole I also recall having a conversation and I have to apologise I can't remember which district councillor it was with about the way in which they had worked on a project over a period of time with older residents living in sheltered housing within one of the villages and how they had talked about the use of central spaces in that and how this has been a project for getting those older residents to be able to engage with different officers of the council and different services and whether it could be open or whether it should be shut or should be closed down and I think I'd be very interested to know how sometimes grigs such as that who can be more hard to reach at times because of maybe less likely to access digital communications which perhaps are a way in which you measure things more often at the moment and the way in which people in that position feel I am always struck by we have a phrase in education that we refer to as the hard to reach and what we mean by that is sometimes young people and families who it can be quite easy for schools to not engage with because there may be a difficult relationship or there may be a lack of willingness to engage on the part of that young person or family and one of the things that we do in education is we work incredibly hard to make sure we engage with those more hard to reach people and one of the things I'd like to maybe investigate and know about here is the extent to which the council is engaging with groups who are maybe more traditionally excluded who are less likely to come forward and engage and I see this as another one a bit like the first one that I put on the list which perhaps relates to some case study examples again talking to officers I have absolutely no doubt that we have numerous examples of officers in the council who have had great success in engaging with small or large stakeholder groups who perhaps others have found more difficult and that those officers could tell us about how they succeeded and I think allowing them to share their expertise both with councillors but also with other officers in a way that may not always happen would be a beneficial outcome of us looking at this so I don't see this as every single stakeholder across the entire council because I feel that would be an entire council's work for about five years and you would do absolutely nothing else but I think that we may well consider where there are groups who maybe we think could do with having their engagement with the council investigated and how it may be able to be improved and I would hope to get out of this a greater sense of again openness and engagement and communication between everyone and making it very clear to people the value that we place on them as residents and as groups and engaging and I will just reference back to the fact that obviously we had Mr Fulton here earlier at the start and Mr Fulton and his fuselane group are often very challenging towards the council and I know that the council works incredibly hard and engaging with those who can be quite challenging towards the council and I think there are lots of things as a council that we can be very proud of and very positive about in terms of our engagement with groups so therefore I would refer to the words of Mr Fulton used at the end of his statement in terms of these things can only benefit us all in terms of our engagement with each other so those are my thoughts in relation to that one I wonder if there are anything councillors wish to comment and add in that regard we have councillor Bradman first of all thank you and I apologize that I was not here at the beginning of the meeting and thus didn't hear what Mr Fulton said but I shall happily listen back to the recording of this meeting to hear what he said and but one of the things that occurs to me is well sorry there are two things that occurred to me one is one of the groups I think we probably find it hardest to engage with as a district council is residents in private rented accommodation because we have no natural route through to them and often the mouthpiece that they might most readily encounter would be a village social media page or indeed our own social media page if they were engaged with that or indeed in parishes certainly my own in my own parish the fact that we actually deliver to every door a parish magazine a printed parish magazine in order and that suits some demographic and some people and some you choose facebook and social media so it's just thinking about how we can engage with the people who aren't in our you know normal routes of communication and the other one is being mindful that the county council may well have a route into those people because the county council is responsible for adult care and children and education and social care and so our way into those communities might be through our colleagues in the county council it's just a thought it's just thinking about these things Councillor Fane's hand well yes I just wanted to follow up what Councillor Bradlin said I know that the private rented sector was just intended as an example but I think it's quite a good example because I find a number of people in that sector not aware of the role of the district council in for instance if they have a problem with their landlord in securing improvements to sustainability insulation energy efficiency and so on they're not aware that district council is actually responsible for enforcing with his regulations forgive me chair a matter which I was going to raise later in another context I've raised it previously this committee but I just use that as an example of the difficulty of getting people to engage if they don't realise our relevance and it's quite difficult for us as councillors to to anticipate what their concerns may be you know we sort of wait for people to come to us and these people will not do so so I think it's a very valuable subject for discussion chair very much Councillor Cohn oh I'm going to turn myself off for a moment yeah just following on from that really I was going to talk about sort of harder to reach groups possibly sort of like care homes and things like that where people are you know very elderly disabled and find it difficult to get both sort of print and information through social media or IT systems and just that it's interesting there's obviously lots of sort of young peoples and toddler groups and baby groups and things like that where we could maybe sort of reach out for you know some of the things that the council is doing for those groups and you know in environments that they sort of feel comfortable in whether that's you know attending a coffee morning at a care home or attending a baby group or whatever it might be really so it's just sort of the the reaching out element of that really thank you councillor there's any other councillor who wish to add anything in relation to this at this point councillor Hart thank you chair I'm just aware that the recent as recent edition of the the district magazine has has appeared and one of the issues that's been brought to our attention sometimes is it doesn't necessarily go to every household and I've certainly logged households it hasn't gone to I don't know what happens with that information so I'm wondering if we've was that's a tool that is is already there that can be used to communicate with people have we got any feedback on how many people report not receiving I know I've got the message and put out that people can access it electronically but obviously not everybody's going to do that so I'm just wondering how that that facility could be used if we wanted to get feedback from residents but we need to know how many residents aren't actually getting it if that makes sense okay I don't have any other councillors hand up or on my list at the moment in relation to this topic so this can come to you anything to add comment in relation to this one as I'm going to go to it it's of course I'm coming to you first and then leaving it to you so could I direct you and Anais with um direction please thank you thank you chair um I think with this particular example there's a couple of things that would be incredibly useful to do um one of them I think might be a scoping report so that we can hone down on particular examples of where we have engaged with people um either hard to reach groups or as you say smaller villages smaller community groups might not be the usual people that we might think that we're engaging with I think that would be a very useful thing to do and the other aspect would be a scoping report so that we can identify clearly what outcomes we'd be looking for from this what what type of learning we would want to take away and how we would engage with people um your point about hard to reach groups that that's something that I and colleagues I know have worked on before in terms of reaching out engaging with people who um we might not otherwise reach through traditional communications so if committee would be in agreement we could put together a scoping report I think to to bring back to you um the other thing that would be really useful is is obviously engaging with individuals and local communities members are so important in this space and often that the key part of the information that we receive about how we can further engage with people what concerns they might have and indeed whether we can target people in the nicest possible way to engage with them better and to involve them in services or aspects of what the council's doing so I think it'd be really useful through this piece of work as well to to look at the member engagement as well as what officers may have done previously and how we could improve great thank you very much Ann I any more councillors wish to I think Anna sorry councillor Bradman thank you um it occurs to me I'm sure in the past at some committee we have seen reports from the um tenant participation group as it was called in the past um I'm sure um Mr Campbell Peter Campbell will put me right if I've got the name wrong but um I just wondered are we still having reports from the tenants to this committee periodically Peter I've seen your best place to answer that one well and sorry um there's not many recently uh but we have just um recent had results from a um a tenant survey which went went to all tenants and the results of that will be coming back but that also there's quite a lot of information in that um about which sections of the community responded um which will also help to inform the work that Ann was and mentioned so yes we have we have got a report that's due to you and that should be with you in the next month or two committees that's great councillor Hobo did I just see your hand waving I did sorry and it's councillor Earl first and then councillor Hobo sorry I'd missed you on the list yes I felt that perhaps you could make better use of some of the organisations in various villages and towns where there may be people who are not naturally users of south camps but who are educated outgoing willing to work with the community and can become resources if only they knew more about what's actually available because at the moment I think there is a certain level of ignorance because people don't use the services they've got other priorities but we could actually tap into that um and and make some resource available so people know what we do what councillor does et cetera thank you very much and councillor Hobo so I really simply wanted to second uh our name's just comments about the role of us as ward members in active communication in in a way that is uh peculiar to our to our wards and so so we're really the only people who can understand um what the local social media groups are what the local magazines are it's impractical to expect um anyone at a higher level within the district council to be able to keep track of all of that uh and so I think uh we perhaps need to make sure understand that we have a a duty of communication uh uh and that your active communication in in these areas that are peculiar to our wards great thank you very much okay yes councillor Stadebart thank you chair just very briefly then because councillor Earl um uh raised raised the point which actually resonated because we've been being asked in Gertin Ward by members of the parish council how do we form a link between there's the parish council looking at the village perceiving needs understanding and here are we as district councils there's just two of us um and it's a big village so actually the role of the parish council is very significant and it touches on some of the issues we spoke about in the first topic so um there's there's something to think about is is the parish council which is often populated by the kind of people council that are uh that are you know attentive and connected and interested that's why they're on the parish council great thank you very much just going to scan the room nobody else is adding okay thank you very much so in relation to that then the engagement of the council of stakeholders across the district um we obviously had the conversation there where Anna's point about that initial scoping report because again this is another one that has potentially been very large and what we need to do is need to make sure that we are focused on what we are doing and we don't run the risk as I kind of half jokingly said of trying to do every single stakeholder has been the next five years doing nothing but this and obviously we will be successful in this if we are able to identify where we're going to go with it what kind of groups of things we're going to look at um some as ever really kind of helpful points in terms of where you can go with it you know we have written down and we can review the meeting recording later on at that point so what I propose in that regard is that um Graham myself and Ian will then talk further with Anne regarding the scoping report suggestion that will then come back to committee at some point when we have the space to do that and then we will pursue that as job of work going forward which again we will um communicate with committee about so if I can just ask if for an affirmation that we are happy for engagement of the council with stakeholders across the district to be a topic of consideration for Sweden over here excellent great thank you very much everyone so the next actual item on the agenda is in relation to the issue of youth engagement with uh youth engagement in south cambridge which is say comes out of the motion that was put by councillor heather williams to the full council in july because we have to think for a moment there obviously forgetting all this even existed which was definitely supported unanimously I know a number of councillors spoke very positively about that and I had happened actually when I submitted these on the same date to put young people in south cambridge so I was pleased to see that minds were thinking alike and that has then in councillor williams motion she talked about it going in the first instance of the cabinet and again that was agreed so that has been to cabinet which was then agreed following conversation between myself as chair of screen overview councillor code and councillor williams and councillor smith that it would then come back to this committee for as we talked about in terms of task and finish group and further development in that regard so this is then slightly different to what we've talked about to the first three in terms of topics to the committee because this is a sort of like bigger project and this is one where my expectation would be that we will set up a group of five councillors who will lead on this project will do the work in relation to this and that they will then come up with their kind of work and how they are going to work on that and I see this as being something which will have a significant amount of investigation and communication involved with different young people's groups and those who are serving young people already and what the council is doing but also how we can increase the engagement of young people with the council both from a democratic perspective but also from a service perspective and how we can support young people in that regard this is something where I would expect us to possibly be going down the route of hearings and investigations and possibly spending periods of time with young people wherever that may be across the districts and I would reference again the point about not just focusing on the what I would say our big towns we're not yet maybe in that situation the same big towns perhaps they come to some point down the road but definitely our towns and our villages and also our smaller villages as well because I know that one of the things that I think it's important for us to consider is that we do have that range of large settlements and to pay small settlements and I think one of the things especially those of us who may be grew up in smaller villages would always think is that we will always cut off from it and we'll always that step further away however I also know having spoke to young people who live in very very big cities that they also feel the same at times even though they may well be living in the centre of the big city that others aspire to be so therefore what when the first thing that we need to do is we need to agree the membership of that group so um I as I explained in email that I sent out to people I am I'm happy to be involved in that group and essentially that group if that is what a committee is happy for me to do um I've also received an offer from Councillor Stobart I believe you offered to be part of this good excellent I was having one of those little moments where you look at somebody and you're absolutely convinced in your mind that they are the person and you noddy that me which was great otherwise I was going to look around and think oh who else said me so Councillor Stobart is offered to be part of that I haven't at this moment received offers from others I don't know if there's anyone else who would like to offer to be part of that Councillor Eddingson I have experience of doing this in the past and know some of the pitfalls have said but would not want to restrict the thinking of the committee in doing it the way I did it if you see what I mean so I'm very happy to be part of that committee but I might keep quiet some of the time would you be a change when it folks I feel it would be inappropriate for me to come in to this point to Councillor Eddingson Councillor Bradnam um I in my county role chair the corporate parenting subcommittee which is a subcommittee of the Children and Young People Committee at the council and I won't bore you with the details of that but suffice it to say that we inter leave informal meetings with our formal in public meetings and I am working towards a situation where our informal meetings actually the young people from the Children in Care Council so these are elected from within the Children in Our Care these are the Children in Care in the county and they elect from amongst themselves children to sit on the Children in Care Council and they in turn convey to us through through this informal meeting the things that they would like us to consider and so I'm working very hard to actually get them to be participants in the agenda setting for that meeting but to also guide us as to how they would like that meeting to happen literally not necessarily with laptops open and all around a room and with tables amongst us it might just be sitting round chairs in a room discussing with somebody else minutes in the background but so getting the young people engaged in and they're very keen to be an active part of that so it's allowing young people to engage in a way that they want to I think is really important and you can appreciate with the cumbersome structures of county council and that's not in a rude way it's just it has to be like that because of policy setting but trying to break that down in this informal meeting so the young people can take part in the way that they want to is is a piece is a task and and it's we're working with it so I think I'm if you want me to feed in I'm very welcome to but I don't think I've got time to that's fine. It sounds like you would be a very good person to be involved. I'm just going to pause for a moment and say the noise that we can hear is rain and I just wish to have a moment to pause of goodness me we might have forgotten what that noise sounded like after many many months. It's a very nice sound. Councillor Fane I believe your hand was up next. Chairman you'll be glad to know I wasn't going to put myself forward as one of the the five members. I think there is a danger that we might have a lot extensive experience and expertise available and maybe less identity with some of those target groups. I'm conscious of the fact that I'm trying to be tactful. It doesn't come easy to me. I'm conscious of the fact that this is following on to some extent from a motion put forward by the opposition and that our vice-chair maybe was going to speak of this. Forgive me if I jumped in but I think it's very important that we should have some of our younger members of this council involved in this work which is one of the reasons I'm not putting myself forward. Excellent. Councillor Cohn. Yeah I agree I'd like to sit on the committee and not just because I'm younger but just you know I think it's very important and I think there's lots of different groups that we can engage with and from you know schools, youth clubs, scouts and and even actually sort of younger than that we talked about before like baby groups, toddlers and primary schools that I know already doing like democracy days and things like that so yeah I'd be happy to do that. Excellent and Councillor Leaming. I would like to volunteer. I am just going to share that Councillor Leaming I have something of an ongoing joke regarding that she is relatively speaking a younger councillor and I'm just going to confess that I may have inadvertently suggested she wasn't during a meeting so I'm going to have a little public Mia Culpa. You are definitely one of the younger councillors Councillor Leaming. Excellent. Okay so I think we are kind of there in terms of those five and I think we have a good range of people there so what we will do then is pursue to sort of set up a first meeting of the people who said they're going to be involved and that we will then come with a plan of work and action for that taking the fact that it's been said and looking for those things from there. So that's very good. Yes Councillor Leaming again. I'd like to ask a question. What is the threshold for a young person? Are we talking about people under 25? Are we speaking about people under 30? Are we speaking about children? I think we should be clear about that before we set off because when we've spoken earlier about underrepresented groups I would perhaps say that under 30s would fall in that category and it depends on what we're doing this for. That's most definitely something to discuss. So I'm about to go to Liz simply because I don't see anyone else waving at me so I'm going to go to Liz. Oh thank you Chair and I think the most kind of got a good you know good stare here in what was the purpose of this piece of work. The only thing I would suggest is that you could you know there's been some reference here to the age of some of the members of the group if you were so minded you could co-opt a young person onto the group and I know we had some fantastic work experience students working with us who were kind of year 12 during the summer I can think at least of one of those who you know would be brilliant in kind of being a constant in the group because I know you will want to talk to lots of young people um but if you wanted to co-opt somebody that's obviously within your gift and I know you'll have lots of contacts through your own work councillor. Thank you. I don't know if any of the other four officers have anything to add in relation to this we have the vigorous head shaking once again okay that's absolutely fine no problem at all so just before I move on from that I'm just going to check that no other councillor wish to add anything after we've had that conversation at this stage councillor Ellington. I'm just wondering where the officer who will manage this group will be able to come from is that a community function or is it a democratic services function just thinking of it it must be quite an onerous task to manage this particular group and obviously management will decide those things but identifying somebody who knows south camps well enough to know the various groups that there are and where they are and personnel might be quite difficult to identify. Is there anything you want to talk to that now because I mean I would assume that we kind of have that discussion and go through later on but I'm happy for you to say something now. Well I think you need to give us a steer when you have your first meeting about where you want to go um obviously we've got lots of expertise in the communities team um you may need support from democratic services so you know I think you need to come and tell us what what you need. Great, thank you. Okay on that note we will go through um I'm not going to call for affirmation relation to that because that's obviously to do with the motion to council that has already been unanimously agreed and has followed through the procedure to go to Cabinet and has then been agreed that it would come back to us for us to work on that so thank you for all those comments in relation to that. I am going to always do what I do at this position though I have thought of what the other item is I need to talk about so I do apologise I was going to do my usual thing of checking with Ian because I thought I forgot something but I have remembered something else um this one in relation to this and the work that we did one of the other things that we talked about and agreed was that we would also use scripting overview to to interview and talk to um what I refer to as outside agencies who provide services related to South Cambridgeshire residents so what I would like to do at this point is to ask if there is any organisation that anyone would like to identify as providing services to South Cambridgeshire residents which can be in the public sector or possibly even the private sector and I'm thinking there in terms of provision of buses for instance that anyone on the committee would like to suggest might be something that we might consider looking into interviewing talking to reporting on or whatever this is a fairly open kind of call for idea at this stage and then obviously that is something we will continue to work through but I wanted to ask if there was a thing at the moment I have councillor Cohn who has written his own name down? The only one that I had was I suppose a private company I'm not sure if it's completely appropriate for us to look at or not but it's the lifeline company that feeds into sort of our elderly people's properties and so forth and because I know it's something that residents have brought up in terms of how that works and the efficiency of that. Okay great thank you very much councillor Fane and then councillor Vendiver. Yes it occurs to me that one group that provides very useful services in a number of villages is Romsey Mill run for desire youth services and engage in a number of other ways running volunteer cafes and so on and I think we would find extremely useful to speak to groups that maybe just one of many examples others would know. Great thank you very much councillor Vendiver. Back where we had two Swedish committees, one of which was called the Partnerships Committee I believe and we often had people coming in and it was often useful although it was I mean had a discussion with the person there wasn't much sort of follow-up in it so these issues that we've been talking about about how Swedish works but obviously one of the major issues that we all face at the moment is the provision of health services so some engagement with CCG or whatever it's called might be useful something a particular issue that's come up in some discussions I've been involved in recently is to do with the decentralisation of health services and getting health services into communities that that could be a particular theme that we could discuss with CCGs and other relevant health organisations. Thank you very much councillor Bradner. Yes I was thinking sorry just thinking about what councillor Vendiver has just said of course health it's the integrated care service which is delivered as a it's a function that's overseen at county level but obviously they certainly in terms of getting health provision in new developments is quite important and I was actually thinking about care wardens I know the district council sponsors and employs a number of care wardens in in my own parish we employ our own care warden with the help of Milton charities and support from south councillor district council and that role is really quite important in enabling elderly people to remain independent in their own homes but with the support of somebody it's not providing care or personal care it's simply enabling them to be confident and their family to know that these are people who are continuing to be independent safely so this is often where family are not close enough by to be dropping in regularly whereas the care warden can keep in touch regularly and the resident obviously pays a small fee towards that which I mean one of those I mean certainly our own is absolutely brilliant I'll be recommending that coming to speak about what the sorts of things that they can do to support communities. Fantastic thank you councillor Leaming. Thank you chair and I would like to speak to Cambridge water and possibly Anglian water I don't know whether we'd invite them both together or perhaps just Cambridge water but I would like to talk to them about supply water quality monitoring and the preservation of our chalk streams managing the extraction from the air buffer and wastewater management and partly because this is an issue that I know a lot of residents are concerned about but also because it has a strategic input into our planning decisions. Thank you very much. I don't have anyone else's hand up about this stage so you just drew down there for a moment so I would very much like us to consider the issue of transport and the provision there by stagecoach and I think that is something that comes up a regularly from residents is linked to transport issues and there are so many transport things as a district council we are involved in and I would like to look into that I would hope that any of these private companies would put themselves forward for engagement with a scrutiny committee of a local authority and I am sure that they would see as a positive activity on their part to be engaging with residents representatives so I would add stagecoach to my list. Is there anyone else who wishes to raise hand at this point? I will come over to you as always at our almost end of meeting time. No, I don't know any comments, thanks obviously, this is in your gift and in my experience in the past this has either worked very well or very badly when you invite people in and I think it works badly when as a committee you are not prepared and breathed and you don't know what you are trying to get out of the invitation so it probably needs some careful thought in terms of what is the purpose of bringing a third partner in, third party in and what do you want to get out of it but it can work brilliantly. Thank you very much. So I don't see any other hands or anything else in relation to that so I am now going to do my list a bit by much, I always want to do because I always don't want to come to the end of the meeting and find that I've completely left something out here and has confirmed that to me. I must confess that every meeting I chair wherever it is I'd always live in fear of getting to the end of the meeting and somebody pointing out to me that I've completely forgotten something rather significant because I've missed it on the agenda. That's one of my life fears I think. Okay so that then brings us towards the end of the meeting. If I can just raise one thing and I'm hoping here to see a hand go up from a willing volunteer what I'm going to say is scrutiny over you committee members this is an exciting opportunity for you and I would like you to see it in that way. A report from this meeting will be presented to Cabinet on the 12th of September 2022. Neither the vice chair nor I will be able to attend the meeting so would any other committee member be prepared to act as spokesperson for the committee on the morning of the 12th of September because neither the chair nor the vice chair are able to attend due to work commitments. Oh we have a hand from councillor Bradnham thank you very all excellent so unless anyone else would like to wrestle councillor Bradnham for this responsibility this is excellent both councillor co and I would very much love to be able to do it but obviously as everyone is aware with full-time jobs it is not something that fits with what we're able to do but obviously that is where we look to be able to involve other members of the committee fulfilling those responsibilities that everything has done. councillor Bradnham thank you very much your offer is kindly accepted by the two of us yes and not from both of us thank you very much so therefore at that moment I believe we have concluded all the business for the meeting and as I said I hope to the start we would manage 90 minutes we have managed 85 minutes and we are at the end so those of you who have parish councillor meetings and other acts of further councillor work to attend will hopefully be able to go off and attend and meet with your parishes thank you very much colleagues for your attendance in the meeting both councillors and officers thank you