 We'll be facilitating the conversation today Today with me I have wonderful for wonderful speakers Come from very Different backgrounds we're going to share about The experience and their insights on on the topic. So Before we begin I would like to Just do a very quick Introduction to all the panelists. Yeah So on the left hand side right here, I have Dr. Lim Tich-Meng. He is the president of the Singapore Association for the advanced Advancement of Science the president of the Singapore National Academy of Science The member of the Singapore bioethics advisory committee a former board member of the Association of Science and Technology Centers And the president of the Asian Pacific Science Center network Welcome, Dr. Tich-Meng. This is not the first time you are here. You are a regular speaker and foster Asia and You supported in the past as well with the science center. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me And next I have seen who chunk of form for my resolve She is Heading the actual business form SAP Digital and app innovation in Azure hybrid for Microsoft Asia Pacific region. She beat all these eight years With my result. She is responsible for defining the GTM strategy to deliver a customer in partner success And for the revenue growth of the businesses Soon who once again welcome to the first Asia summit for years Yeah, but if you're a lot late like this Yes, and and next I have here Kiwi tongue he's not only a friend of mine, but also one of the Revious organizer of the first Asia summit so Kiwi at the moment Leading he is the CEO of a local Hardware production company called Lyons Forge. This company actually Produce laser cutter. Yeah, so if you're not aware that people talk about Singapore. We are very famous for Shopping more a lot of services industry But we actually produce something here locally and Kiwi will talk more about it later Previous to to his company. He actually a fighter Air through for the Singapore Air Force for many years Yes, and as mentioned already Kiwi used to be in the organization of the first Asia summit previously Welcome Kiwi welcome back. Thank you. Thank you last but not least Very excited to meet Cheryl to cook. This is your first time here the summit show for summer summer Yes, so Cheryl is the regional director marketing for Asia Pacific at Rafauna labs She recently established a marketing team for Rafauna originally from the Philippines But Cheryl been here for over 16 years now and over 20 years of experience in the IT industry Very happy to have you here. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me Okay, so Let's go in on to our first question So I have a few questions prepared for the panelists before We open up to to the audience So my my first question is actually I only did a very brief introduction I want to understand and would like you to share with the audience What inspired you to pursue a career in Science and technology and how did you get started? Good afternoon. I hope everyone's having a good time. Yeah. Yeah, that's a Sorry, I'm in marketing and you do it. So I started in tech really really odd Yeah, I'm actually I think one of the things that I put in my bio is that I actually graduated with a finance degree Major in banking, so I should be in a bank right now, right? But I graduated in 2000 and anyone here who was graduating 2000. Don't be shy. It's okay That was a dot-com boom, right? So everyone's talking about dot that the tech the dot-com and whatever I thinking I want to be there, right? So instead of going to a bank sitting there talking to your clients and getting them to open an account I decided to go to tech, right? That's basically it. Yeah, and then never look back Yeah Well, since you passed the mic to me, I was hoping that you would go that way You talk about graduating in year 2000 who were born in 1960 Okay, right Homeful, you know that I'm not a So-called IT person. Okay. I'm a biologist I'm a biologist and I always love science and nature since I was a little kid. I can claim the status of being the first Honor CSTCs using computer simulation at a time I'm always very curious. So I'm a learner by nature. I'm a learner. I'm still learning. That's why I come here to learn whenever I can I remember when I was doing my Honor CSTCs. I was introduced to programming language called basic. I mean, it's very ancient to many of you and it was so basic that it's no more In existence now, but I learned how to do programming and and and I think that was the first thesis ever in in in the in the NUS the department Without touching any single animal. I did a project simulating sampling of animals in the field and using that to calculate So-called impact. That means meaning you can compare this community and this community. What was the difference? And at a time when I presented it the professors, they all didn't understand what I was talking about. I heard The professor saying, ah, that's giving the benefit of doubt and he feel a good grade But my my professor was telling me let's try and see whether whether the feel out there believe in what we came out with And I was very happy that the paper was accepted in a journal And now that I'm in NUS and they all talk about ranking of a journal at that time it was considered top-class journal So so that was my first foray into using it and that's why I believe in tech And when you came to Science Center to ask whether we could support you for first Asia I saw that it is a very meaningful proposition I'm very happy that you have grown to this stage now every year you are back every year becomes stronger and bigger So thank you very much. So that's my my journey out of curiosity that I continue to stay in the science and tech environment Say who before we not an expert would you like to go next? So when I was thinking about my options 20 and 2000 is when I graduated Tech is where the money and the opportunities were and So many years later, that's still where the money is So fast forward all this time I've still been in tech I started off my first job in Dell because my my my degree my undergrad was in computer hardware I didn't want to do what everybody else was doing which was software. So I said, okay I'm gonna do something different and I went the hardware route But nevertheless, I did a part-time software course and then eventually so I started my first job with Dell in hardware Once I and then I didn't move on to my MBA a year later Because I always thought I wanted to get into the business side of things And guess what even after my MBA on day zero When all of the companies were coming to campus for hiring The tech companies were once taking the slots right busy the day zero slots Not the consulting companies not the finance companies But it was the tech companies taking that the day zero slots And that's how I landed my my second job in another tech company But this time in services. So I landed up in the IT services industry one of the the global in players in that Space and so I've never looked back again. I've been moving continents I've moved countries, but eventually I've continued staying in the tech industry Yeah, so you and Kiwi have something in common. So hey, it's all into hardware. How about you Kiwi? Okay, so I think the story go back to about 2015 then I was still a major flying at 16 in Air Force so what happened here then at 1215 is that the government is promoting innovation and Entrepreneurship I think that's where the smart nation initiative was row out. So at the back of my mind I totally believe in this movement at least for Singapore coming from a very kind of like patriotic But one thing that I've seen is that the manufacturing ecosystem in Singapore already more or less is reaching is till end of the decline I decided that as a So I Imagine that how can an average Singaporean come out using open source or whatever resource they have back then to really Enterprise and create a product. That's main Singapore So that took me on the journey From 2015 to 2017 Where I do a lot of source project In fact, that's the only resource that I can find and that is how actually I met home food In one of the science hack day That's how I kind of join for Asia then in 2017 As I kind of mentoring Singapore students is that okay? You need to innovate you need to enterprise But now you're having a secure job and now you're telling people to take weeks It doesn't make sense. So I need to lead by example. So I quit my job decided to start a company called Lions Forge And then using same thing I have no engineering background, but just using pure whatever I can learn from the Community and then develop product that can compete on the global stage and then with that lesson I'll just pass down To all the young folks here Really to listen to me and you took part in a lot of Makers fair. That's how we got to know one another again We're happy to see you growing from strength to strength. I walked downstairs. I saw you down stairs Indeed learn for doing very well. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, feel free to come down see the booth and then see what we can do with open source Yeah, so if I really am inspiring to hear the story like for some of us didn't it not stuck in the tech Major, but we all ended up here in tech and can we mention something that I want to Actually the main question that I have here today Which is relate to open source how important is having experience in open source projects Forgetting hydro in the tech industry. We are the open source conference. And what is your opinion on this? Kiwi, do you want to do that? And you mentioned already that you want to show the potential of open source to younger students in Singapore The context is slightly a bit different because here you are talking about how to get a job, right? So for me it's more on how to be an entrepreneur Evens if you do not have any kind of background The it's just that the wealth of knowledge and resources in the open source Community or the world or I'll say the open source universe is it has grown really Like strength to strength. It is amazing. I couldn't imagine like let's say back in the 1990s Let's say when I started in Pauly if I were to do the exact same thing that I want to do as impossible not without So in the way just out as if you guys have listened to the field of lectures, right? It's like you can see that the technology will refresh rate and enhance rate is so fast. It's so rapid Trust me. No education system can Support that so you need to you want to keep yourself to speak you need to be part of the open source community to keep up Yeah, I like to add on to that what Kiwi said is open source by by its definition is open open for access is Democratizing the the tools of this bait and in the science center field We also look into open source and I also and encourage our people here especially young ones to get into that Because through open source you get to the opportunity to co-create many things and in the science center There are many things that can be co-created because of open source And in the format of including even making very immersive kind of Omni data System because now with a lot of data coming in you can actually pull out data from NASA They pull out data from Google Earth and using open source can stitch together and narrate a program And you guys show share with the community who can create those Recently we just created one that is bringing you from earth all the way up to the age of the universe and come back Again, and that is because the open source platform Yeah, I can probably attest to that as well Open source is about creating an open mindset so it's all about collaborating and Making sure that you're sharing so that others can benefit you build on the value creation and let others use it so today if you think about like even a statistic about 90 percent of Enterprises are using open source in some way or another So there's no running away from open source and even large enterprises like Microsoft use as well as contribute a lot to get hub They contribute reuse code from GitHub So it's a lot of open source that's being used across so yes to hiring I would think yes, but definitely will be a useful skill to have and to me it's more we it's in Everything that the stats is really off to it reiterate that fact that it's a lifestyle now, you know Kids they Google something they only go for the free ones. It's technically open source It's inevitable and most big tech companies that are legacy technically legacy like okay I'll mention the one that I came from at five right our Investing in open source acquiring companies like engine X IBM Red Hat right It is a lifestyle. It is the way to go. So if you want to advance you will inevitably Get to an open source journey anyway To be able to actually advance your career, you know, I think it's it's just the way it is Yes, so Cheryl since you have the mic. I want to continue with you. So you mentioned that You were in finance and then later on move into tech, right? So we regularly receive question from For people in the community how I can get into tech if I did not have a major in Computer science or technology and the next question that I have for you and also perhaps in who You mentioned that when you get into tech because of the money, right? So people here we have very young audience also from online. They all want to get a job like with cooperation well-known companies, right and It's also even more important in Asia You know that we all need to do file job to support our family and a lot of like challenges these days in Society, so the question is what are the most important qualities in lawyers look for candidates in applying for Tech position, so especially for instance, you can give a sample from Rafa no or Microsoft What kind of quality? Well, so I've been marketing so I just hired I recently just hired someone in India my first Marketing manager there. I have one in Australia to you And for Grafana because we are start up in a pack We only started a month a year and a half ago, right? So I don't have the luxury of the big Tech I'll get an agency do the do everything now we have to I'm a director But I also do I also take the pull-up better tomorrow. You saw me yesterday I was the one pulling up the bed was carrying luggage is right and yeah And to me what I look for for a person's resilience, you know The person has to be able to do the strategy part also the tactical part and the hands-on part That is at least for a startup perspective because that's my forte at least for my perspective, right? So yeah, I think that's that's really what's important and that relates back not only for tech That's for I think the current career opportunities anywhere in the world right now. Yeah, so what do you say people need to say? Yes, that doing thing Yeah, like you have to be able you have to be willing to learn new things and to be able to do actually do it Like you do not just talk the talk but also do the talk, right? Yeah So how about Microsoft I will give you a summit up in in three C's, okay So give you three C's that you can easily remember So one and and these are again like Cheryl said these are Skills are things that you would take across industries. So irrespective of where that's tech But tech can be applicable across industries as well. So it's relevant to all of these. So one is is strong communication skills That's something that any employer would look for Make sure that you're able to communicate your ideas You're able to influence for impact You need to make sure that you're getting the message across whether you're in the form of writing whether the form of speaking You have to get your ideas across The second is collaboration You have to collaborate so there's a no one-man island none of us can exist alone So if everything is a very is a lot of teamwork So you end up whether it's it's creating code or building an application Or whether it's marketing we end up doing a lot of teamwork. So collaborate is your second one the third would be curiosity which means be a lifelong learner, right and Continue to keep learning. I think there's no limit to Us learning and and no matter what job it is or what and sometimes you get disrupted now think about how COVID disrupted everybody a lot of industries and there were people who went right from From being in the travel industry to learning DevOps and moving to a DevOps industry of role So you have to be open to learning and being a lifelong learner So no better place to start because we're at the lifelong Nothing center So those are the three C's Thank you Yeah, so talking about lifelong learning Dr. Tiffman, so you have a lot of experience indication and key to also Kiwi mentioned earlier. So whatever we we learn in school university might not be relevant anymore by the time we So What do you think? What should people do like to keep up with the rabbit changes in technology to stay relevant for the job market? I think You have to recognize that the world is changing so fast and you cannot stop learning So first thing first get it right get into your genes get your DNA whatever you call it Lifelong learning. I think this is something that you cannot not afford to invest your time in and of course You're curious. I think you are curious. You're interested. You can find things out and coming to a platform like the Force Asia. It's a good platform because there are a lot of new ideas just not just sitting in listening to the previous speaker Then when you talk about how why two systems cannot come together and then you create if you change one thing You can change everything. So these these are the kind of things that stimulate you to think. Yeah How can I learn new things to adapt and apply? So lifelong learning and always look for things that can be applied And not necessary solving problem, but sometimes just for your fun enjoyment So don't just always work work work, but also enjoy and then learning is a joyful process So I will say always invest yourself and Discover the joy of learning. I think these are important things for us to move on and that's reason why I always enjoyed I'm in the CEO of the science center That's the place that we play with learning. We encourage people to play and learn and we are still learning We are still learning Thank you. How about Kiwi? Do you have anything to add on your own experience? So you you did not Started with like a hardware marker, but now you Dr. Lim has mentioned most of what he's like having the curiosity to learn I think the only thing I can probably add I will just come from the anger is that In this era of Technology changes, but open source has been so established right most of the disruptive technology all come from open source So rather than seeing technology as a track to your current job or expertise You should embrace it and then use it since it's open source, right? Use it enhance yourself and then compete again so that kind of self-improvement mindset rather than a very Protectionism as I want to protect my job because AI is going to take over my job I think why do you think that why don't you make use of AI to create? More product and more jobs for yourself Yeah, and so Can you also like give some advice for the younger generation? How like to get started out in tech as a career? I think that Just coming from an intro video standpoint is that if let's say you rather go on a high-high ring I need someone that can be very adaptive innovative and willing to really look out for problem to solve Then someone who just waiting around taking instructions I think we are right now in a new era when things are just been changing non-stop Whether geopolitics whether it's climate change whether it's a climate change so and so forth I think the young generation will Find themselves needed to adapt to changes and to deal with a very uncertain world. So those who can do that Yes, so thank you very much. So we're talking about how the Young generation can get into tech, but I also want to understand the people who are already in tech So what have them to get more advanced in their career? so what are the opportunities and Of course, I know that there are many developers here in the room. How can you create the joy in your work? Dr. Timings said that okay if you find joy in the education I could find joy in the the work that you do you can advance the most better, right? So the question is What are the requires you in order to advance? your career in tech and What keep people motivated? Speaking by experience You just have to love what you do right like I came from sales. I was there for eight years Right, and I got sick of having Coda Sorry, sorry for any sales people here. I got sick of having code. I'm thinking I want to try something else You know, I want to change my life. So I want to have you know, I want to do something try something else Tried marketing never look back, right? So you have to love what you do and I stuck on startups because I like the The hands-on part some people cannot do that. That's fine, too. Like it's it is what it is, right? Sometimes you're comfortable what you do. You're happy I think that's and then the advance the career will always follow you around because when you're happy you're productive and You keep on learning because you want to learn But if you're not happy, then that's that's when you get stagnant and that's when you sort of like lose productivity So just a curious question. So You don't have quota in In marketing, but what is the KPI's? Do we help the sales people create the pipeline? So we call it marketing source pipe, right? So we do have a quota, but it's not as Detrimental, I guess if you don't like if you don't meet your quota your boss will kill you Right, but we do have it obviously we everyone has KPIs, right? So for marketing It's marketing source pipe. We have to help the sales people create the pipeline Okay, yeah and false Asia like events like this obviously help to create adoption and then ultimately some of these people will Hopefully buy a product at some point. Yeah, that's just a bit on the keyword there. You kept she kept saying create create create I think in a tech field you can create value for your company for whatever Agency you're looking for. I think that is a very good Indicators that you can progress more and the creating bid One thing I like to encourage people is that is used to create with a community You do not create all by yourself because what once you come together one plus one is greater than two and therefore Again coming to advise the young people You must be able to work with a team of people as much as possible because the combined strengths much more I was just this morning at Meta So I asked the people how they work they actually form teams and when they find that they need to solve a client's Requirement they're bringing expertise to come to make that team and so on and so forth So I think this co-creation bid to trade value is how you can progress How much do you have something to add here? Yeah, I would say Be a team player who demonstrates results. I know it sounds very very corporate But when you get down to what it really means It simply means show results Right, you have to show the impact of whatever you're doing the the results have to speak for themselves and That's what eventually then lets you grow because people see what you're capable of And that's what then gives you more opportunities to take up. Yes I totally agree and I don't think being a good team player only apply for corporates I think in the open-sort community We also need very good teamwork in order to do the success. Yeah Thank you very much Kiwi. Do you want to jump in? Okay, good. So How are we with the time? So I think that it's time to open up the floor to the audience So let's see if you have any if we have any audience question from the audience So everyone very successful now with their career. They all have very good job. I Can ask a question You're more than welcome So I'm gonna go a bit towards the hiding part of finding a job We see these big companies, especially the big ones Microsoft Google Amazon, maybe They do this very focused data structures and algorithm for software engineers, right? They do these very focused data structures and an algorithm interviews Where you have to like type or or write on a whiteboard and all that right and this has been very controversial in some Tech communities, like are we assessing correctly students? Are we assessing correcting candidates? Or are we just kicking them out because they couldn't find the how many windows are in New York, right? So Even this I think this there's a very good option on looking at a candidate's profile if it's an open source contributor Because you can see what he does but I want to know what's the the panel view on on this process can how can it can be improved and And if candidates because not everyone has the luxury to be able to work their daily life on open source So what would be your that's a second question What would be your advice for the people that are not 100% in open source to somehow showcase their value? through through their work like to answer that and the two questions so the first is The the primary thing that these companies are testing for is your problem-solving skills So what they're trying to do I mean some tests. Yes, maybe more difficult or the questions may be slightly harder But they are constantly also revising all of that but one main thing that they test for is problem-solving and How are you able to break down a problem where you may not have all the information? So sometimes and this happens all the time in your day-to-day work where we do not have all of the answers We don't have all the resources, but you still have to go solve So it just they're trying to see what would you do if you lived in all of these constraints And how would you think an approach? So that's what they test for and if they're able to see that you have a clear way of trying to approach a problem That's what they want the second Which is if you haven't really done any open-source projects or if you're completely new to this the one way that That people should go about this would would also be to just self-learn It's these days. It's a lot easier for you to do Let's say to go up to some online training to consume content to take up a certification And I know that people who have not been who are not technical and I'm not very technical I can't claim I am but it is easy to go take up certifications if you have the interest or inclination So the the first step would be yes, go take some of those content or consume some of that Because then you're able to sort of get to a point where then you can meet some more like-minded people and You know try to get some some foot of the dough in terms of doing projects, etc The other thing and I think there was a person called Annie this morning who talked about something called the code with our barriers This is a program which we initially started through Microsoft and with a lot of partnering companies for to build women Diversity in the tech industry And to upskill them so the idea was we came up with all of these companies came together to say how do we upskill women? And then give them a platform because they may not know where to start So this program the code with our barriers We give them a way to upskill which is takes consume some of that content take up the certifications And then to remove mean to apply it. We give them the Give them the opportunities to participate hackathons So then they are able to use some of these skills in to apply it for real-life problems and solve it So we invite them to be part of hackathons and then we also give them mentoring So I'm also my evening job or my non-day job is also the mentoring and pillar lead for code with our barriers So I look at pulling together mentors and mentees So mentors who've been in the tech industries and then mentees who you know Who probably are starting off or our career shifters as well? Try to get them together and then to see how they can get get more guidance in that direction So getting a mentor again is a great way if you don't know where to start And that's probably the journey towards getting landing an internship or eventually landing a job Thank You Srinu for very insightful and so Are you happy with the answer Marco? Okay, thank you. Unfortunately. That is all the time we have for today I would like to once again, thank you very much our analysts for being here today And thank you you all for joining us. Enjoy the rest of your day at the position summit Thank you